Decware SE84UFO: Further Reflection On What This Amp Is.
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- Опубліковано 24 лип 2024
- This is a follow up on my initial video after reflecting on what this amp is and what it isn't. This is a VERY niche product that needs a very special setup to shine. Don't expect to just buy this, drop it in your system and get great results.
I plan to do another video trying some tube rolling, analog scope tests etc but sadly I have to say: this sample I have, using the tubes they come with, isn't real impressive with my RP600m speakers/system.
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Your channel is so much better than all the sponsored audio file channels that were just repeat whatever the manufacturers want them to say
Thanks!
Well said this is the REAL DEAL and by a great Audio engineer who is at the top of her game!
I’m curious. Who are these reviewers you are talking about who are simply reading manufacturers statements?
Just an FYI comment, but if you’re looking to buy one of these to “try out”the current waiting list time is 3yrs. Js.
Just found your channel, you rock! Love your approach. Honest, fair, knowledgeable, no BS. Very cool.
Your channel is awesome! Thank you for your hard work!
I bought this amp three years ago and still remain blown away at how remarkably well it drives my Klipsch Cornwalls, unbelievable. It doesn't provide enough power to enjoy the full potential of the speakers, I only wish I had another one to run one for each speaker. This is, without question, the cleanest, most detailed amp I've ever heard. Cheers!
Our ZenUFO is hooked up to 1996 model Klipsch Chorus II Speakers ( last year manufactured). We purchased the speakers in 1998. Absolutely PLENTY of volume and sounds beautiful!! Graphs have not phased us on how it supposedly sounds in our home. Very happy with it. Sort of shitty doing a review on an amp type not fond of at all to begin with ( syrupy etc.?), while the Zen is sitting right next to a Skunkie designed amp. I wonder why?
great job! I really appreciate you candid assessment, it's refreshing and spot on!
Good stuff. I think you did a great job with your descriptions and thoughts on this one.
Thanks for keeping it real!
Reality is a "personal" perception .........
Thank you for talking about this topic.
I have the 25th anniversary edition of this amp and run it with a pair of Klipsch Forte III's. They're 8 ohm and a claimed 99dB sensitive. I think that's a touch optimistic, but the point is they are very sensitive. They don't need to be 4 ohm. I'm glad you're giving your own review, not parroting others, but I think you should consider that you're opinion of the amp is in the minority of those who have listened to Decware amps. That doesn't mean you're wrong, just that there may be something unique to your setup that causes your experience to be different from most.
Or my taste in sound is different.
I have noticed almost all audiophile reviewers like or dislike the same things so I have zero interest in considering my opinion isn't the same as those other folks, or that they must be right and I'm wrong. Those are the same people who poured love on both those >horrible out of the box< Reisong amps, which to this day still baffles me.
This amp has 6% THD and it's never under 1%, that is a fact not an opinion. The manufacturer agrees with what I measured and I'm just not a fan of what high THD triode tube amps sound like.
I also know this amp will put out more power into a lower ohm speaker, so using this with an 8 ohm load limits it even further as far as the power it can produce. And again, most of the viewers on my channel are DIY folks trying to do this on a budget. They need to understand what this is and I doubt many are interested in buying even $3500-$5000 speakers like you did. My Chorus II are also very high efficiency and I didn't care for the sound with them either.
I'm not saying you can't be happy with your setup, I was VERY clear in the video that obviously some people are. But I'm far from the only person who isn't that impressed with it. In fact the person who sent this to me to test listened to it for a couple of months, got tired of it and it's been sitting in his closet ever sense.
System symmetry is definitely important. Some equipment pairs nicely with a wide variety of systems. Some are very system specific. The fact that prominent audiophiles have added Decwares to their own system says a lot. I think the UFO gives just a taste when you really need to move up to something like the Torii with more power.
Over the past few months you've become my favorite Audio Channel to watch. Love the DIY audio side of the hobby. Was just on Cheapaudioman Channel where his latest video was on the rapid decline of decent low priced speakers. My comment was for people to start into the DIY part of the hobby to lower the cost to performance ratio of getting great sound. The gratification one gets from building something that far exceeded what you'd pay for a factory built product is immeasurable. Keep up the good work and stop letting comments get to you. It's only one persons opinion.
True facts!! You always keep it 💯
Taking a just a quick peek at the circuit diagrams and having a understanding of the components used in building this Amp. It looks pretty solid. Not completely bulletproof.That is what I would expect Decware to manufacture. Great video as always take care sugar !!
I've ran KEF LS-50s (4 ohm, 85 dB), with the SE84UFO2, and they sound better than with my 96 dB 8 ohm Fostex for some reason.
With my Fostex, a 45/2A3 SET amp walks all over the Decware.
The SE84UFO is *not* the end-all, be-all amp that some claim it is, IMO.
Thanks for your thoughts, Skunkie!
I think this amp needs 4 ohm speakers to work.
Very impressive statement 🧐! Thank you very much 🤓!
Thanks for the honest review. You are correct about the speaker choice with this little amp. You really need a speaker with a true 100db sensitive or higher speaker. Like the Cornwall. Yes speakers like that can get very expensive really fast. That’s why I build my own speaker cabinets. I love building an fooling around with speakers. Thanks Skunkie love your channel !!!!
My personal experience is that you need to be able to reach 100db 1w/1m per speaker at max output level of the amp. With that little amp you need over 95db speakers and by god they are rare. You have klipsch at the consumer end and then you get into pro audio/cinema. Tbh I think DIY is the only option to even get close to what this amp needs.
@939Productions. Hey. There’s no way I’m going to pay that price for the Cornwall. It’s a good speaker but have you ever looked at the inside of one? I regress lol. I’m using the Kreg pocket hole jig 720Pro to build my cabinets. No affiliation its just what I’ve found that works the best for me. If you think about it, all the cabinet does is enhance Bass Response. I’ve built a few very nice sounding speakers cabinets using some old Magnavox Horn speakers that I picked up on eBay. Those guy at Parts Express have been a great help with the crossovers. (No Affiliation). To me a great pair of speakers is where you start. Then a Great Tube Amp and your there.
Harmonics are part of the "tube" sound. Tube distortion is very different to solid state distortion and I think some people don't understand that. They get hung up on tube rolling and the "tubeyness" of an amp, but they don't understand how tubes actually work.
I always find your reviews honest, down to earth and genuine. You call a spade a spade and don't faff around.
Great review
“Wine Tasting Adjectives”!
I live in CA Wine Country and I can totally relate to that ! 🤠
Look forward to hearing about your findings! I did a rebuild/reimagining of a Heathkit SA-3 amp (single ended EL84), and it was not giving me the sound I wanted with the terrible JJ’s it came with. I bought a pair of The Tube Store “Preferred Series” 7189 and they made all the difference in the world to how the amp sounded. It became what I was hoping it to be. Thought I would share that.
dig ur honesty,,,, thanx
I use a mono pair of Decware SE84UFO with Danley SH50. Works fantastic! Single point source/linear phase
I completely respect you and the time invested in UA-cam videos. My confusion comes on the large number of videos highlighting Decware. Their product can’t be purchased (other than used) without a 3 year wait. I would wager that in 3 years there will be numerous competitors immediately available that surpasses Decware. Please educate me as to why I would place a deposit and hope to receive equipment whenever the company decides my name came up in the lottery.
I did my video simply because a viewer sent me his Decware amp to look at and review. They just recently got this far behind in their production, I agree 3 years is a long time to wait. I don't think I recommended for people to get on their waiting list for this amp? I know some people rave about it, I personally didn't find anything extraordinarily special about it.
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics Thanks for your reply and I do appreciate your “real world” videos. Keep up the good work and take care.
I purchased an Old Chen EL34 Integrated, 15w per channel. Also branded as Lao Chen. I paid less than $300 incl shipping last year. I like it quite a bit. It might be another great low cost project for your channel.
Thanks for the info!
I built a point to point Zen Triode amp using edcor transformers.
I use Russian military tubes. A 6n1p-ev input tube and a pair of 6n15p-ev (SV83) output tubes to take advantage of the Hazen Mod.
I used the amp at my home office into a pair of Klipsch RB-600's. They fill the space with plenty of sound.
I took the amp to my work office and use it with a pair of Tiny Radials and a sub.
I don't know if it has the magic of a Decware build but I listen to it 8 hours a day and love it.
I have less than $500 in the amp.
I’ve cloned his third gen C/ CS several times with Hammond and Edcors. I did that off an original. I also built a set of monoblocks off the design with two SV83’s. Never once have I asked for an opinion from an “audiophile”- I don’t have any desire to sit around with men drinking wine in their rented apartments discussing how their credit cards have made them an expert at critiquing how Dianna Krall struggles through butchering singer standards- I actually like and prefer women.
The fundamental difference between people who build their own stuff and audiophiles is that we discover what works. Go on a DIY forum and that’s exactly what the guys who have experience and knowledge FROM BUILDING will tell you. No one is telling you to buy gold plated power cables.
This is what massively pisses me off- I see so may people that want to get into the hobby, have the skillsets or desire to learn the skillsets for it and get discouraged because some loungechair audio-phallic tells them that they need cryo plated tubes. By their comparisons, I have built and repaired complete crap on what they call old garbage speakers (yet I have to ask where they bought their TV from, lol) and found complete joy in that. That’s what the hobby is about. Because that’s all it is- a hobby. It’s not an “investment”.
Awesome remarks done politely. Not an easy task. Sound is subjective that much I do know!
I'm scratch building a single ended amp. One 6L6G. And a output of 4 watts clean. 6. At distortion city. My speakers are 105 DB. 1 WATT METER. NOT GOING FOR POWERR. ANYHOO. LOVE YOUR VIDEOS
I waited over two years for my SE84UFO as the current waiting list is that long. Let me say the long wait was well worth it. This is an incredibly great sounding amp and 99% of the reviewers seem to agree. If you pair this amp with cheap Klipsch speakers you will not realize it's full potential. I've owned numerous tube amps over the years and always returned to single ended triodes. I was surprised to find the Decware more resolving than my Bottlehead 2a3 mono blocks but it's true especially at low levels. All of my single driver wide band speakers are 98db and higher and that is what the SE84UFO was really designed for and the combination can be a match made in heaven. I'd agree that the Decware may be a niche amp but that happens to be my niche and if it's yours you'll be well rewarded.
Again, this is what I said. Even with my "cheap Klipsch speakers", which BTW seem to work fine with other amps, the amp sounds great at low volume levels when it's used at below 1W of power. "but it's true especially at low levels" is again exactly what I said about this amp. IMHO it's a very small niche of folks looking for an amp to use at low volume levels with extra high efficiency speakers. But as you said, if that is what you are looking for, this is your amp.
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics With your skills you should DIY a pair of high quality HE full range single driver speakers sans crossovers and I predict you'd be even more impressed with the SE84UFO. So many speakers on the Decware website fall into that category and it shows that Steve understands his market.
Hey Skunkie!!! Thats one of the great US made amps rightt there. Meant to power hi sensitive speakers. Great with a pair of eg Lansing Valencia's or maybe Klipsch horns if you dont wanna be vintage. But they work well with any speaker over say 89db@1W/M So glad you’re not on that Chinese cr*p anymore hahaha. That amp is demo'd on their site extensively. Remember 2watts (and thats 2w class A baby) will give you 103 db from an 100db speaker.
Like I said, if you are willing to buy special speakers, hopefully a 4 ohm model, and you like this type of sound, I'm sure it makes some folks happy. That said, that's a pretty niche product that needs a very special setup to perform well and it WILL color the sound on what is played through it. I personally have no interest in it.
There are highly efficient speakers that can be bought for a reasonable price, especially used or open box. Omega Speakers is one - 95db or greater sensitivity, base model starts at $695 - and they have discounted versions that show up but sell out quickly
I think it's more than just picking a random "high efficiency" speaker for this amp. I have a pair of older Klipsch Chorus speakers and it didn't "sing" with them anymore than it did with my RP600m. I have a small listening room and listen at fairly low sound pressure levels so it's not like I was using much past the 1st watt. My 6BM8 amp sounds great with these same speakers and has about the same power.
I'm not discounting that some people love this amp with their specific speakers/room, but it's clearly more to me than just choosing any old high efficiency speaker to match with this amp and enjoy it. Or else I just don't care for the type of sound it produces and other people love it.
Speaking of...well the A10 (12AX7). This heat sink really keeps the power transformer cool. Cool is good. Recessed magnets help location and thermal goo for coupling. I cannot upload the pic. Cheers.
I think you have been very generous. eg not having info on the switch near the binding posts is not good enough
I picked up an RH84 ( I need to refurb it ) and I love the sound of that thing. I presently run an Elekit 8200 with kt88's in ultralinear and that sounds pretty sweet. My speakers are DIY with Mark Audio alpair 7 drivers.
I am curious to see how the system would sound with a pair of mark audio drivers running in series ( 16 ohm ) . It is my understanding that tube amps tend to like voltage over current and that transistor amps prefer current over voltage. Just something I heard.
I took a Decware clone somebody built and turned it into an RH84. It is important to know they they are VERY different designs. An RH84 makes much more power, has feedback, and is especially designed as a circuit that works well when you are building with sketchy output transformers. The RH84 is much less picky not only about parts, but what you hook it to.
I running a SE84UFO into a pair of Zu Omen Dirty Weekend II speakers to, I think, good effect. I don’t find it extremely “tubie”, though my only point of comparison is an Amp Camp Amp I built. Skunkie, I’m eagerly waiting to see your video about doing some tube rolling with the Decware.
Should have the final video later today.
The best way to try the Decware amp is to build it using the ZKIT1 circuit board using good Edcor transformers. I used it with a pair of 98db efficient single driver loudspeakers for years, only swapping out for a 45 triode SE amp.
I’ve been told there is not an audible difference with rectifier tubes by an engineer friend that I have a strong trust in, but my experiential experience with a Line Magnetic EL34 amp, and multiple NOS rectifier tubes was a Very noticeable difference. I also hear from you, and trust you, that rectifiers might or might not have audible differences depending on the amp.
I think some of the depends on the power supply, if there isn't enough filtering, you might hear it?
I have the anniversary version of this amp (SE84UFO25), and yes, speaker matching is critical. I am using Decware's own DNA2 speakers. They are 8 ohms at 94dB sensitivity, and the little Decware sounds like heaven on these speakers. The bass is incredible, and the highs are so extended. This is not a "tubey" sounding amp at all. The output tubes that ship with this amp are old Russian/Soviet cold war era military video output tubes, and have extremely wide bandwidth and longevity, rated at "no less than 5,000 hours." Gold grids. I also have a set of Klipsch Forte IIIs, and I have not yet tried the amp on those speakers. The amp also likes a very stable impedance curve as well. 2.3 watts/channel is surprisingly loud on the speakers I'm using. I love that amp so much that I ordered a second SE84UFO25 so I can use them as monoblocks, at 6 watts/channel. I have a very long wait ahead; about 2-3 years.
Glad you are happy with it. And obviously feel free to ignore it measures about 1.5Wrms at hard clipping.
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics, well it does get pretty loud on the speakers I'm using before clipping sets in. If that's only 1.5 watts, then that's pretty impressive. I have a Decware push-pull 6L6GC amplifier for when I really want to rock (25 watts/channel) on the same speakers. Honestly, I probably don't use much more than 6-8watts/channel on the push-pull, and that's nearly blowing me out of the room.
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics, I have never heard that version of the amp you're reviewing, but the anniversary model has been quite significantly upgraded, especially in the power supply, including voltage regulator tubes. I believe that the anniversary model is much faster than the one you're reviewing.
You should generally allot most of your hi-fi budget on speakers that have good synergy with your amp. With this amp, you're probably not going to get great results with $500 speakers.
You're definitely in the minority with your view on these amps, and that's cool. Different strokes and all that. Decware now has a several year waiting list that really came about when Steve started loaning his amps out for review. Most reviews, both professional and actual owners of the gear rave about them. You don't see Decware gear pop up on the used market often, and that says a lot.
The same people you are watching given this amp unbridled rave reviews also gave rave reviews of the reisong amps, which really are total junk, as well as the design flawed Willsenton amps. Some gave the rectifier eating R300 "Amp of the year"! Are those the reviewers you trust?
I know people love watching reviews that confirm their purchase choices and like you, "go after" anyone who finds even minor things not hyped by fanboys, but's that's what I do. Test and honestly review what I find, not glorify everything sold for fanboy views. If you have efficient speakers and are using 1W or less, this amp really does sound good. Go watch the video Steve did on his own amp, he says the same thing I did in this video and shows the point it starts clipping, it's the same test results I got. And I'm not sure you understand how many of these reviewers work, they are GIVEN gear in exchange for positive reviews, it's not loaned.
I know you have a lot of money invested and feel the need to "protect" what you bought by fanboying it, it doesn't change what this is. My speakers don't change how this amp measures and insulting them doesn't make this amp product more power, the speakers aren't used testing the power output and other stuff anyway. And it's funny, these speakers sound great with a $5000 amp, but somehow won't with a $1200 one simply because they are on sale for $500? :)
Have a great day!
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics, I'm not "going after" anyone. It's all about what you like. That amp is probably not the right amp for most people.
There are not that many reviews of Decware amps, so I have not seen or read that many. There were virtually no reviews out there of Decware amps when I bought my first one (the push-pull) in 2018. Most of the reviews I have seen are mostly after Steve started sending his amps out to reviewers, which he had not done prior to COVID. Most reviews I have seen are from users, and they are mostly great. I'm just saying, that amp you reviewed has come a long way since that original version, including the power supply and output transformers. The upgraded power supply is only available in the anniversary version, but the upgraded output transformers are available on the base version. I'm don't know how old the unit you are reviewing is.
Of course, people love confirmation bias, but I honestly love my Decware amps (and speakers), regardless of what anyone says, so I guess that makes me a fan boy. The Decware amps I have have really gotten me back into listening to music over the last few years. Anyone who buys a 2.3 watt amp should surely be aware of its limitations.
I probably wouldn't have responded to your first comment on mine, if after saying that you're glad I enjoy it, you hadn't added the snarky comment about ignoring the hard clipping after 1.5 watts. I think that's what got me to be defensive. You obviously don't care for this amp, and that's fine. It's certainly not for everyone. But people can't go to Best Buy to hear these amps, so that's why a lot of happy Decware owners like to give their impressions to others who have never heard one, meaning the other viewers here.
What does a $5,000 amp sounding good on your speakers have to do with this one not sounding good on your speakers? What is the power and topology of the $5,000 amp? That seems like apples and oranges.
@3:02 i love your dog
So do I :)
A hi-end tube amp dont have a speaker switch. I would use an additional speaker terminal for 4 and 8 ohm loads☺️
I hope all is well at home.
Yup, all is good here now :)
I didn’t watch the first video, but as an owner of this amp for the last 4-5 years, here are my thoughts.
1. I’ve successfully driven a variety of speakers with this amp. I settled on the Triangle 40th Anniversary Comète as my reference. Others, which I just had “hanging around the house” were stacked Large Advents, DCM Time Window 1A and Ängstrom 202. Those 3 are, of course, “vintage” and inexpensive. They all sounded “good” to excellent, but not perfect, of course. The Ängstroms are about 86 dB sensitivity, the DCMs are similar (I think) and the Advents are more sensitive. The DECware could run out of steam if you want to crank but in a small room cranking would be harmful to your ears. And none of those speakers are as resolving as current offerings.
2. The Comètes are 90 dB sensitivity and are highly resolving. When I bought them I paid $2000 plus stands. They’re not “cheap” for many, but they punch significantly above their weight. Could they run out of steam and fall apart? Sure, but again not at reasonable listening levels. BUT … I felt I was missing some low end; the Triangles use a very good 6” mid-woofer. They are front ported so there is more bass than you might expect but still … So I added a Triangle sub. I happened to get one that had been traded in to my dealer and my price was about 60% off - victory! Now we were cooking better.
3. The next step was to add a preamp. Yes, the Zen amp has 2 inputs and volume control. But I still felt something was just a bit lacking. I had run an Atoll IN100 SE solid state amp for some time and while it is VERY good, it didn’t have the sound signature of tubes or the Zen amp, namely 3D imaging and the richer tonality. Again, it was close but the engagement factor was diminished enough to bother me. After reading a couple of extremely positive reviews of the Lab 12 Pre 1, I bought it. Yes, it’s nearly *twice* the price of the SE84UFO! BUT … it has an insane amount of gain (20 dB!) and I was gambling on that gain being the missing factor and it turns out I was 100% right. (That doesn’t always happen!) Plus, the Lab12 is a single ended design AND has a remote for volume and input selection. (It does not have standby power, so turning it on means using the switch on the back panel.)
So that is my current chain of amplification components and speakers. The SE84UFO is resolving enough (while not being bright or sterile) to evaluate cables, and I have. The biggest improvement was in interconnects. Again I chanced on an amazing deal for Darwin Enlightenment cables which are the best I’ve ever heard. Maybe there are “better” cables and while they’re not strictly “budget” they are cheap by stratospheric audiophile standards.
4. Tubes … I’ve settled on (for now!) Preferred Serries 7189 output tubes, Rogers Canada 6922 input tube and have a selection of Type 80 rectifiers. The 80s need an adapter, of course, but they do make a big difference and I think I have THIRTEEN different type 80s! I can distinguish between the absolute best (RCA Radiotron globe) and others, though sometimes the differences are very small.
TBH, the standard 5U4 rectifiers that come with the SE84UFO should be thrown. The original I received was DOA and while waiting (ahem) for Steve to get the replacement to me, I went ahead and bought one from The Tubestore. I’ve tried other rectifiers in that family and yes, I can hear a difference, but it’s not as big a difference as changing to Type 80. Type 80 delivers weight and speed.
5. I take the point about speaker selection BUT one doesn’t need super efficient speakers for this amp, unless you want to rock hard and fill a ginormous room. ALL components are system dependent - good Hi Fi is about *synergy*. I still have a ways to go with my system, but this already too long comment would be even more ridiculous if I went on about next steps!
It all depends on the SPL in room you want etc. I stand by my assessment and Steve's video agrees, if you need around 1W of power or less, this amp works great. If you need 2W, this isn't a good fit.
Interesting ........indeed this hyped little amp is not designed for regular low impedance and low sensitivity speakers optimized to be coupled with amplifiers and their high damping factor, high current , low ouput impedance ( mostly solid state or heavily use of NFB)
What is interesting is not only look at the high distortion figures ( for sinuswaves ) but also what are the distorsion at very low power ( mW and below 1 watt )
I never saw a schematic for this amp but I believe it ( the 6BQ5/EL84) may be triode coupled...
Question left ...........is it simply triode coupled the regular standard way ( Screen connected to the anode /and resistance ) or is it a kind of triode trick coupled with a property triode connection with diodes between screen and anode ?
Would be interesting to have a look at the schematic and components used , it should be a simple circuit ...but with some options ....
Have a nice day .
The schematic should be easy to find.
Not sure why I'm commenting, as I have never heard this amp, but having said that; I suspect this amp sounding "syrup-ie" is what some folks love about it. I'm thinking Nat King Cole and other 50's music: super smooth/syrup-ie to the point of dreamy, half-awake type vibe. I can definitely see the appeal of that sound signature. This may be what some folks are wanting out of a tube amp. I know that I don't want a tube amp that sounds like a good solid state/transistor amp, or I would just buy one of those instead. I think there could be a smooth/syrup sound that was the norm back in the days of tubed consoles or table top radios that some people are looking to recapture and this amp could be making that sound signature happen. Of course, not having heard this amp, I could be wrong - LOL.
You are correct and I too like a little tube THD in my system. This one has a little too much for my taste.
I love my Decware amp but yes speakers matter for outcome. Any thoughts, speculation, hypothesis how this amp may measure on a compression driver that is 8 ohm, 108dB efficient. Operating at 225HZ up Noise is an obvious factor with this efficiency so they would need to be turned down or padded to reduce noise. Great job with your channel. Thanks. Looking forward to your experiments with tubes.
They will "measure" the same, the efficiency of the speaker doesn't change the distortion numbers. But it does change how much power you are using from the amp, so it's then operating in a lower distortion zone. I'm sure if you are using less than 1W of power, then the distortion this amp produces wouldn't be an issue and in fact would likely add the right amount of coloring to the sound. If you need 1-2W, then IMHO it starts to sound too syrupy.
Steve used a 9800 ohm output transformer and there is also a 3300 ohm that he stated was more efficient on higher impedance loads. There’s been a number of design changes over the years and I haven’t kept up with them. I loved the original simple bare bones machinery grey designs before he catered to the audiophallics- and I don’t blame him for doing so.
Regardless, I called him up and ordered a set of his low impedance 3300 ohm transformers. Ran them on a DIY Hammond clone into a 2 ohm load (each channel ran two Cerwin Vega towers in parrallel- essentially an 1100 ohm output load on one SV-83 output tube) for years in my office and loved it. Built it once and never looked inside it again, although I burnt up a lot of Russian SV-83’s when they were cheap. I still have it- these days I moved beyond that amp. I built a new toy that torches Russian KT-88’s. After all Bias voltage isn’t a spec.. it’s a state of mind, lol.
Great job as usual, as they say opinions are like assholes, we all have one, i am using omega speakers with my set amps. Love them
The manual says: Power Output 2.3W RMS @ 8 ohms. Speaker Range 2 ohms to 16 ohm nominal impedance. Input impedance: 100K Ohms. Input sensivity: 1.8 Volts.
The manual for the higher priced one goes on to say it has 6% THD... Which is what I measured.
That seems a lot but if it is pair harmonic distortion at max output, it could be lower with 94db + speakers and sound good. A king of smooth sounding amplifier. Tube people love that coloration as I do. :)
Would anyone recommend this amp for use with planer headphones?
It doesn't have a headphone jack, but no idea how it would work. It seems it like to drive low ohm devices.
@johnfuller1958 Decware has another, very similar model designed specifically for headphone use.
Clarity and dynamics win the day. I also don't like syrupy sound.
We need more of these actually knowledgeable and unbiased reviewers talking sense. Those 3rd class audiophile poets out there are hilarious. 😅
This amp might be good for high sensitive fullrange speakers
I bet it would probably work well with something like that!
This amp needs to be used with seriously high efficiency speakers with uncomplicated crossover . Think 96dB/watt + speakers
100%!
Where are the output transformers? I don't see any on the top of the chassis.
They are inside the chassis, fairly small ones but at the output level this amp is tuned for, they are sized right.
Steve mounts them inside the chassis.
One thing you haven't done in the past is change out the output transformer, I bet you can get that amp to sound good on 8 ohm speakers by changing the output transformer.
I'm sure it would change the sound :)
Another good video. I agree with you on the R8, I like it much better in UL mode for the music I listen to. It also has the power to drive my harder to drive speakers. In my SET & SEP Amps my go too speaker is a pair of used Klipsch Heresy II's I picked up off eBay years ago for 500 dollar, installed crites crossovers and replaced the diaphragms in the tweeters and mid drivers. Never been a fan of the copper coned 2 way Klipsch speakers, never understood the rave reviews for them, I’ve always found them lacking, just my opinion. I have been on the lookout for some old Klipsch Cornwalls & /or La Scalas to go through, haven’t been willing to pay the price 6500/13000 for new. 20-30K for speakers? That’ll never happen. Take care.
As you probably know, Crites has their own line of speakers from just over $3,000 to $3,160.00. I stumbled on an unopened box of 96 dB KLH Kendall towers that retail for about $1,500 and got them for $600. Good bargain for great sound paired with a PrimaLuna Prologue 5.
@@hanksta34 I’ve heard good things about them. Then again, I’ve got a table saw, the thought has crossed my mind to just build my own pair of La Scalia’s which is what I really want.
Cool. I've not tried JJ 6DJ8 tubes before. I've been looking for good modern 6DJ8 tubes that compete with my best so far 70's and 80's military stock. Gold lions and others are way off. I do generaly find JJ's have a pleasant sound. And have been my favourite in some amps. But never tried the JJ 6DJ8
Hello, have you heard about the FM Acoustics FM 300 A clone ? The channel''I am mad '' has a raving revue ... I bought one waiting for it !''Snake oil Audio'' channel also praises .He went to China to see for himself ! It's on You Tube...
Not yet!
Hello Dolly.
Yay for Dolly!
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics Maybe you can do a video about Dolly?
Oops, push-pull triode, not pentode.
Replace the speaker transformers with LUNDAHL transformers.
But part of what you are paying for is their proprietary "Decware UFO wide bandwidth" interleaved special OT.
Thanks for clarifying some things. I can't imagine anyone pairing a $1200 amp to a pair of $20k speakers. That's ridiculous no matter what type of amp it is. There are plenty of speakers around the same price point of this amp that would sound great. It is always important to match the amp to your speakers and vice versa. I would say that solid state amps are going to be more versatile when paired with a wider variety of speakers. Low power tube amps are going to be more of a niche item. They don't work with all types of speakers and they don't work well with certain types of music. However, with the right speakers in the right sized room they can sound great with a variety of genres of music. When I used to sell audio gear, my job was helping people match components to speakers to get the kind of sound they were looking for. It required some trial and error and lots of listening. The most important thing to remember is, you are listening to music. A great deal of of listening to music is subjective. Not everyone likes the same thing.
Price isn't the product. The best speakers for this amp would be something like the Klipsch LaScala and Klipsch AK6. Those are both well over $12k.Those speakers are 105 db efficient and that is what this amp is craving, very efficient speaker.
Let’s clear up some things and dispense with the Decware fanboys:
1. Be your own man. Don’t be an owned fanboy b!tch. Steve Deckert is just a man. He is not a God. He’s actually a pretty nice guy and is very approachable. I’ve talked to and emailed him a number of times over the years requesting his advice, and I have bought parts from him. I actually have two of his preamps and a Decware amp I rebuilt from one of those “EBay Estate Sales”, lol.
2. An audiophile is .wav. It’s not a real person. The rest of us have a life.
3. There is a fundamental difference among those who actually work on or have built their own amps from scratch or from kits. Then we have the self proclaimed “audiophiles” -those that use their credit cards to buy equipment.
A. The people that build their own stuff will tell you to build it “loose” - standard 10-50% tolerance caps off the shelf from Mouser, Parts Express, etc are fine. The guys that have been building them and selling the kits over decades will tell you that. You can’t go wrong. Bob Latino plagiarized a Hafler design, admitted it and came up with the M125- and he didn’t let it go to his head. He never once tried to sell anyone a gold plated power cord.
B. Yet the “audiophiles” will tell you that you better be using “Xxx” caps or Kiwame resistors, despite that they can’t tell the difference between a Kiwame resistor and the same exact green ones on Mouser for a tenth of the price, or the difference between a lamp cord speaker wire and a coat hanger. Only unless they can see it- whichever cost more must be better. Which has nothing to do with hearing. Or how to use a soldering iron either. They just pull out their credit card for that too, especially if the person with that skill set sells them on why they must have rhodium tinned capacitors filled with Dow Corning 300.
C. My listening pleasures revolve around old Cerwin Vega’s, Klipsch’s and JBL’s. Peavey SP1’s and double 15’s with a throat horn are a lot of fun too. Parts Express also has some jewels. None of them cost more than a grand to buy or rebuild today.
D. I also don’t live in an apartment. If I did, I would be more focused on acquiring property than audio equipment.
E. I don’t drink wine. I don’t like sitting around with other men in socks listening to music- I prefer women- I’m not an “Audiophile.”
F. Diana Krall SUCKS. I’m game for a great singer standard, but it’s just embarrassing to listen to her butcher them. Besides Billy Joel is a hell of a lot better of a piano player and he’s modest enough to have no shame over it.😊😅
I get the point of this review, but this is pretty out of touch with the intended audience for this amp. It's a low-powered amp meant to be paired with efficient speakers, which don't have to cost many thousands of dollars. Pair this with a pair of used Klipsch Heresy, Forte or Cornwall speakers and you will be in audio nirvana. Decware is 100 percent transparent about this, and every other review of this amp also spells this out. I've owned mine for five years, using it with Klipsch Forte IIIs and IVs, and after decades of endlessly upgrading, I'm content to live with this amp for the for the rest of my life. Without a doubt, the best-sounding amp I've ever owned (including McIntosh MC30s, Harman Kardon Citation, Fisher 400/500/800 and a variety of Conrad Johnson tube amps). It's pretty simple: Pair this with modestly priced efficient speakers, hit play, and enjoy!
That's what I said in this video, I guess I didn't gush all over it enough?
What I was countering here were comments from RABID Decware fanboys I see online claiming this amp works great with 88db speakers. That it works great with ANY speaker and for any use case, which just isn't true. Used as intended, it's a great amp.
Only the fanboys who are blindly obedient are out of touch.
Not gonna buy any overpriced garbage like this one. Overpriced amp will need overpriced speakers with so many overpriced stuffs in the chain. Kind of AudioFools arena. Thanks stephie for this video. I am soon gonna buy a tube amp to try it.
At least I know one fool now.....
@@frankgeeraerts6243yes say that Infront of the mirror. Perfect 👌
I know this kind of audiophiles like you ..still much to learn ..when calling more experienced people FOOLS .
@@frankgeeraerts6243 yeah may be you can prescribe some certification or may be a degree to become a certified audiofool. So other audiofools can also be proud like you or atleast pretend to know they know it all.
Really? The UFO is a high distortion amp? Really you need high end speakers? Really, Really?
98db drivers are not 30K$ speakers, I have never seen the distortion figures you are referring to.
It is like you are reviewing a totally different amp. Are you sure you did not mixed-up your reviews with a different review?
That seem totally wrong.
Can't trust this channel.
Then I guess you can't trust Steve either, because he shows the exact same measurements on his video of his own amplifier. I know this little amp hit the hype train, and the fan boys pumped this up as the "Amp of the year" for any use case, but the designer himself explains this amp is made for use in the under 1.5W range of power, as even in his video he shows it clipping at 1.5W. Go watch it.
ua-cam.com/video/CwTigvF0-Ho/v-deo.html
meh not worth watching. kind of incoherent.
What didn't you understand? It's a good amp if you only need 1W of power, which is the same thing Steve says in his video.
Interesting stuff as always ...but I am curious to know, out of all the different tube amps you been sent, tried, heard or reviewed....which is your favourite bang for the bucks tube integrated amp or tube pre amp so far?
A skunkie modded Reisong A12 is by far the most bang for the buck for the least effort.
Are you going to do more with this amp? What are the shortcomings with Decware design? I head no idea about the need for expensive speakers. Yikes! Do you sell your own Skunkie Designs badged amps?
I wouldn't say they have "short comings", it's just a very unique design.