I’m loving this series. It’s so good to see someone concentrating on the things that make the greatest difference. I don’t enjoy watching videos of guys spending hours cleaning and uniforming primer pockets then to complain about them being loose🤷🏻♂️
Thanks again Tim! Will view again to make sure I absorb adequately. Please don’t think your dragging the series too long. I’m primarily a southeastern whitetail hunter that most of my game is taken 100-350 yards but I still want to develop my loads with accuracy, velocity, and most of all, with consistency. It’s a challenge with the equipment I have but am gaining insight with your instructional videos. Thanks again. Also, thanks for not being a click bait gun tuber.
@johnkaraphillis754 thanks for that John. I try to offer significant value in every video. I appreciate you taking pride in your precision despite your equipment or hunting ranges. It's important and a responsible choice we should all make as hunters. You're either aiming up or down.
Something you can do to keep temps consistent is to keep your ammo in an insulated lunchbox or cooler with a cold pack and a towel on top. Keeps my ammo between 50-60 degrees. If you’re hunting high up late season elk and you know it’s never breaking 50, this is a good way to not be at the whims of your local weather. That being said, if you’re making an all weather, all game load that you’ll throw at elk, antelope, and deer then finding a load that holds together between 20-90 is worthwhile.
Much appreciation to you Tim for ongoing content. Most of the time I shoot round robin also. I'm testing 2 new 6.5PRCs tomorrow - Factory Tikka Roughtech and Tikka with a bedded wood stock (pillar and skim) with a Brux barrel. Just burning some factory ammo tomorrow with Nosler ballistic tips, Hornady ELDX, and Barnes 127LRX. One goal is to compare velocities since Tikka barrels shoot slower than others in my experience. Also taking two 270-7PRCs with 165 ABLR, 150 AB, and 170 BEOL, possibly some 150 Nosler ballistic tips.
@@LittleCrowGunworks Yessir love a variety. Update - taking three 6.5PRCs, one 6.5-284 Norma, one 6.5 Creedmoor, one 270-7PRC. I loaded up some mild loads with LRT, new ADG brass, 215 match and WLRM primers for the 150 ballistic tip in the 270-7PRC just to get a few rounds in the bore. The 270-7PRC, yes, experimenting. I'm a .277 fan boy. When 7PRC came out I knew it was the case capacity I wanted. I would have considered a 6.8 Western if it had good support but Browning and Winchester basically put it to bed not long after introduced. I do think it's making a comeback with ADG making brass now. My goal was to get a 155 LRX, 160 class Hammer, 165 ABLR, 170 BEOL, at 3200-3250fps in a 24" barrel. Goals met. Both barrels are K&P. One is on a Terminus Zeus QC action. The other I picked up today on a Kauger action. I have 2 Benchmark barrels and 3 Brux barrels. Hoping my reamer lasts long enough to cut them. It's a JGS. The barrels have twists from 9.5, 9, 8.5, and 8. I'm actually eager to see what a 136 Terminal Ascent will do to a whitetail at whatever speed I can get it to but doubtful I can get that done by November - Saturday before Thanksgiving.
In a lifetime of accuracy shooting I have determined the load development needs to be at the temperature and elevation that you are going to be shooting or you will not get the same average groups. My 28 Nosler shoots 175gr ABLR’s better than any other bullet but load development was a test of my patience.
I like your video there educational to the masses so great job 90% can't run a rifle correctly and make good wind calls and can only shoot 3/4 moa at best so I say thanks for helping them but I expect a hell of a lot more from my gear or the barrel is getting changed
@petethomas5976 thanks Pete. You understand what I'm trying to do here. I have much higher expectations from my rifles as well. But this isn't about me, it's about inspiring the "common man" to not be complacent and get out and shoot, and improve their skills. So they CAN become better marksmen. Which will then allow them to find better loads. It feeds on itself and spirals them upwards. Better marksmen in the woods is better for everyone. If I just do a whole series showing ragged hole groups from all 4 rifles and then show them shooting small at long range; that doesn't inspire ANYONE. Frankly its boring and expected.
We all know, but it’s always crazy to see again - the 28 Nosler is a monster… for me, the 50-ish% powder increase and nasty recoil wouldn’t be my bag…… great stuff again!!
Tim. Great vid. Also being from the “Midwest”. Longer range shooting is done when the crops are off, meaning Winter and Summer. I liked learning about load development and testing in both seasons, because we can have up to 70 degrees difference in temps around here when I can get out to shoot in W & S.
@clcmarc thank you for the consistent support. I knew I was standing on it, but I didn't think it would fall apart quite that bad. We have to do our hunting load development in the fall or very early spring. Our temperature swings are crazy up here. We can see -40 or worse in January/early February and up to 105 in August. You CANT load for both. But, we dont shoot once it goes negative. It's pretty counterproductive. 😆 Crops down helps. My landowner has a few spots that I can leave targets up year round. Then mid October to late April, I can leave them anywhere I want.
I've been working with a lot of heartach with my 28 Nosler. Have tried every factory load without success. Two inch groups at 100 yards. So I started loading some 168 LRX. Tried some US869 and started with book recommendation. Not good. Am now working with Retumbo and am consistently getting around .650 to .750 groups but only getting around 3220 fps. I'm over max load now by 3grs but not seeing any pressure signs. Loaded 5 at 4grs over and 5 at 5grs over to see if I hit pressure. Have not shot them yet. Maybe tommorow.
Another awesome video. I watched your 22 nosler seating depth test and did the Same for my AR10 6.5 creedmoor. Short story, found two great sweat spots the were .006 and .009 wide. My question is as follows: 28 nosler, proof carbon vs stainless?
@johnmolloy5068 That's GREAT news John. I'm happy it worked for you! For a 28 Nosler, Stainless. Light Palma AT THE SMALLEST, which is .750 at the muzzle, Standard Palma or Remington Sendero/Varmint profile OR BIGGER. So .750" minimum at the muzzle. Use fluting to take weight off. We would be happy to build or re-barrel for you.
Thanks for these videos. I'm learning a lot. I have a question about temperature affecting loads. Does the air temperature really matter or is it only the temperature of the gun powder that matters? If it's a summer day but you keep your ammo chilled in a cooler would that simulate winter shooting conditions? If you leave a cartridge in a hot chamber for several minutes even on a winter day couldn't that lead to potential problems?
Great question. I have tested this and I can say that bringing chilled ammo helps simulate winter conditions. But it's not the same. Because the barrel/rifle is still at ambient temperature and so is the air. Bullet stability is heavily influenced by ambient air temperature and rifle precision is heavily influenced by bullet stability. So, the warmer air may be helping you in the bullet stability department and the chilled ammo may be helping you in the combustion department. You're artificially creating a scenario that will never exist in reality, so you're better off not doing it at all. Frankly, if the load is that fussy, where it only shoots under certain temperatures, I'm not interested in it. If the load doesn't shoot well for at least a 60 degree F temperature band, I'm not interested in it. I have experienced 60 degree swings in the same day and 90 degree swings in 2 days while elk hunting. If you go out west with a fussy load, you're screwed because the AVERAGE day will see a 40 degree temp variance in the mountains.
Another great one. Do you think the retumbo load would have still shot great in cold weather? I mostly hunt with barrel burners. For overbore cartridges that are being picky, what 2 powders would you start with. Also, would a 28 inch barrel be worthwhile? And if you don't mind, I have a 300mag that I'm really having trouble with. Would you recommend a couple powders? Thanks a lot for any questions you may answer, and the great content.
Thanks Bob! We have not done a series on the 257's. I would love to, but I'm not sure there is enough demand for it. I haven't used Hammers personally. From what I hear they are easy to make shoot small. I understand how they work terminally and I'm not sure if it's better or worse than a CX or LRX. I like the idea of it exiting, but I'm not sure they expand enough to effectively transfer energy. Some guys love them though.
Just built a 30 Nosler and tried the 182 Hammer . Using Retumbo at 79.5 gr and .030 off it shot .469 with a sd of 8 and es of 12 3106 fps. Will see how it does on Elk the week after next in WY. If interested I will send you the results. Thanks again for your videos, have learned a lot!
@kaiblackout6216 congratulations man, that's awesome! Shot quartering to and you found the bullet in the back hip? Mercy! End to end. That's a game bullet!
@@LittleCrowGunworks He was initially at 675. Cow called into 375. Facing me, CX took out top of heart and penetrated. Devastating bullet to ELK! Took 3 steps and went down.
Would this be the best load development process?: If rifle is new start here: 1) shoot 80 rounds of anything to break in the barrel If barrel is broken in start here: 2) clean throughly and shoot another 20 rounds 3) begin seating depth test. Find the lands and test in increments subtracting 3 thou 4) perform ladder test (with seating depth from step 3) with 3 powders making 10 rounds total with 3 grains under max load and increase in 0.3gr increments to max load 5) select 2-3 sweet spots from the ladder test. And verify with 2-3 3 shot groups. 6) test best 1-2 loads at max range
@joemarkivich635 yes. That is the LEAST AMOUNT of work/rounds fired to find a great load. If you want to be more thorough. Do 3 shots of each charge weight and shoot them at their own dot (10 dots). We will be doing a video series on this exact process, which I began filming this week.
If your picking a .338 caliber what are you going with? 338 win mag, 33 nos, 338 wby rpm, 338-06, 338 RUM, 340 wby, 338-378 wby? Im curious what your thoughts are.
@awdam0220 it depends on MANY variables. More so with that bore diameter than ANY other. How far are you intending to shoot? What animals, what rifle, barrel length, and magazine length, are you handloading or not? In that order of importance. Answer those, and I can recommend a cartridge.
@littlecrowgunworks Inside of 800 yards, elk mainly in Utah with the idea that it will be good on moose and brown bear one day when I can afford an Alaska trip. Rifle would likely be custom. Barrel length 26-28 inches. Mag length not important as long as the bullets fit, I would be handloading.
@awdam0220 A 338 Norma Magnum or Lapua magnum is the easy button. A 338RPM if you're willing to reel it in to 600yds. I wouldn't use any of the others you mentioned. The reamer designs and brass quality are lousy. I would do a 28" barrel for all 3 cartridges. And if you go with the RPM, throat it out and use a rifle with a 3.600 or longer magazine. We would love to build this beast for you.
@LittleCrowGunworks i would love to look into this with you and have you build me a rifle! I like your recommendation for the RPM, what's the best way to get in contact with you and hammer details out?
@WCFD5045 Because so many people brainlessly jump on the 6.5 craze. Just because the 6.5's can ring steel at distance, dont mean they have the killing effect of 160 gr .284 cal. Because they don't! And theae videos teach that, i believe. I'm also a huge fan of Nathan Foster and what he teaches in his books. Bottom line is .257 and .264 need or rely on speed to kill. When they have speed, they kill fast and hard.
![[UA] NAVI vs MOUZ | BO5 | IEM Rio 2024](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/CMBYk0cbGoA/mqdefault.jpg)
I’m loving this series. It’s so good to see someone concentrating on the things that make the greatest difference. I don’t enjoy watching videos of guys spending hours cleaning and uniforming primer pockets then to complain about them being loose🤷🏻♂️
@danielbaker4989 😆 Thanks, Daniel. I don't enjoy that either.
Thanks again Tim! Will view again to make sure I absorb adequately. Please don’t think your dragging the series too long. I’m primarily a southeastern whitetail hunter that most of my game is taken 100-350 yards but I still want to develop my loads with accuracy, velocity, and most of all, with consistency. It’s a challenge with the equipment I have but am gaining insight with your instructional videos. Thanks again. Also, thanks for not being a click bait gun tuber.
@johnkaraphillis754 thanks for that John. I try to offer significant value in every video.
I appreciate you taking pride in your precision despite your equipment or hunting ranges. It's important and a responsible choice we should all make as hunters. You're either aiming up or down.
Something you can do to keep temps consistent is to keep your ammo in an insulated lunchbox or cooler with a cold pack and a towel on top. Keeps my ammo between 50-60 degrees. If you’re hunting high up late season elk and you know it’s never breaking 50, this is a good way to not be at the whims of your local weather. That being said, if you’re making an all weather, all game load that you’ll throw at elk, antelope, and deer then finding a load that holds together between 20-90 is worthwhile.
Reality! Thanks for a true awesome fact check on true reloading and load development with a hunting rifle.
Love your matter of fact no BS approach.
Much appreciation to you Tim for ongoing content. Most of the time I shoot round robin also. I'm testing 2 new 6.5PRCs tomorrow - Factory Tikka Roughtech and Tikka with a bedded wood stock (pillar and skim) with a Brux barrel. Just burning some factory ammo tomorrow with Nosler ballistic tips, Hornady ELDX, and Barnes 127LRX. One goal is to compare velocities since Tikka barrels shoot slower than others in my experience. Also taking two 270-7PRCs with 165 ABLR, 150 AB, and 170 BEOL, possibly some 150 Nosler ballistic tips.
@Accuracy1st jeez, sounds like you have your hands full too!
What was the goal behind the 270-7PRC? Wanted to experiment?
@@LittleCrowGunworks Yessir love a variety. Update - taking three 6.5PRCs, one 6.5-284 Norma, one 6.5 Creedmoor, one 270-7PRC. I loaded up some mild loads with LRT, new ADG brass, 215 match and WLRM primers for the 150 ballistic tip in the 270-7PRC just to get a few rounds in the bore.
The 270-7PRC, yes, experimenting. I'm a .277 fan boy. When 7PRC came out I knew it was the case capacity I wanted. I would have considered a 6.8 Western if it had good support but Browning and Winchester basically put it to bed not long after introduced. I do think it's making a comeback with ADG making brass now. My goal was to get a 155 LRX, 160 class Hammer, 165 ABLR, 170 BEOL, at 3200-3250fps in a 24" barrel. Goals met. Both barrels are K&P. One is on a Terminus Zeus QC action. The other I picked up today on a Kauger action. I have 2 Benchmark barrels and 3 Brux barrels. Hoping my reamer lasts long enough to cut them. It's a JGS. The barrels have twists from 9.5, 9, 8.5, and 8. I'm actually eager to see what a 136 Terminal Ascent will do to a whitetail at whatever speed I can get it to but doubtful I can get that done by November - Saturday before Thanksgiving.
In a lifetime of accuracy shooting I have determined the load development needs to be at the temperature and elevation that you are going to be shooting or you will not get the same average groups. My 28 Nosler shoots 175gr ABLR’s better than any other bullet but load development was a test of my patience.
Learn something new from every vid you do mate and and it’s very much appreciated so thanks again, cheers Yogi ✌️
Another great video…keep em’ coming…I’m truly enjoying this whole series.
I like your video there educational to the masses so great job 90% can't run a rifle correctly and make good wind calls and can only shoot 3/4 moa at best so I say thanks for helping them but I expect a hell of a lot more from my gear or the barrel is getting changed
@petethomas5976 thanks Pete. You understand what I'm trying to do here. I have much higher expectations from my rifles as well.
But this isn't about me, it's about inspiring the "common man" to not be complacent and get out and shoot, and improve their skills. So they CAN become better marksmen. Which will then allow them to find better loads.
It feeds on itself and spirals them upwards. Better marksmen in the woods is better for everyone.
If I just do a whole series showing ragged hole groups from all 4 rifles and then show them shooting small at long range; that doesn't inspire ANYONE. Frankly its boring and expected.
We all know, but it’s always crazy to see again - the 28 Nosler is a monster… for me, the 50-ish% powder increase and nasty recoil wouldn’t be my bag…… great stuff again!!
Thanks Tim, as always great info. I really enjoy watching and learning. Get info.
Tim. Great vid. Also being from the “Midwest”. Longer range shooting is done when the crops are off, meaning Winter and Summer. I liked learning about load development and testing in both seasons, because we can have up to 70 degrees difference in temps around here when I can get out to shoot in W & S.
@clcmarc thank you for the consistent support. I knew I was standing on it, but I didn't think it would fall apart quite that bad. We have to do our hunting load development in the fall or very early spring. Our temperature swings are crazy up here. We can see -40 or worse in January/early February and up to 105 in August. You CANT load for both. But, we dont shoot once it goes negative. It's pretty counterproductive. 😆
Crops down helps. My landowner has a few spots that I can leave targets up year round. Then mid October to late April, I can leave them anywhere I want.
I've been working with a lot of heartach with my 28 Nosler. Have tried every factory load without success. Two inch groups at 100 yards. So I started loading some 168 LRX. Tried some US869 and started with book recommendation. Not good. Am now working with Retumbo and am consistently getting around .650 to .750 groups but only getting around 3220 fps. I'm over max load now by 3grs but not seeing any pressure signs. Loaded 5 at 4grs over and 5 at 5grs over to see if I hit pressure. Have not shot them yet. Maybe tommorow.
Best round I ever shot was the 28 nosler I’ve taken elk,goat,deer one shot drop and it’s my first season with it awesome round.
Another awesome video. I watched your 22 nosler seating depth test and did the Same for my AR10 6.5 creedmoor. Short story, found two great sweat spots the were .006 and .009 wide. My question is as follows: 28 nosler, proof carbon vs stainless?
@johnmolloy5068 That's GREAT news John. I'm happy it worked for you!
For a 28 Nosler, Stainless. Light Palma AT THE SMALLEST, which is .750 at the muzzle, Standard Palma or Remington Sendero/Varmint profile OR BIGGER.
So .750" minimum at the muzzle. Use fluting to take weight off. We would be happy to build or re-barrel for you.
28 Nosler making you cuss. Blahahahahahahab. Love it!
But you made'r work -nice!
Thanks for these videos. I'm learning a lot. I have a question about temperature affecting loads. Does the air temperature really matter or is it only the temperature of the gun powder that matters? If it's a summer day but you keep your ammo chilled in a cooler would that simulate winter shooting conditions? If you leave a cartridge in a hot chamber for several minutes even on a winter day couldn't that lead to potential problems?
Great question. I have tested this and I can say that bringing chilled ammo helps simulate winter conditions. But it's not the same. Because the barrel/rifle is still at ambient temperature and so is the air.
Bullet stability is heavily influenced by ambient air temperature and rifle precision is heavily influenced by bullet stability.
So, the warmer air may be helping you in the bullet stability department and the chilled ammo may be helping you in the combustion department. You're artificially creating a scenario that will never exist in reality, so you're better off not doing it at all.
Frankly, if the load is that fussy, where it only shoots under certain temperatures, I'm not interested in it. If the load doesn't shoot well for at least a 60 degree F temperature band, I'm not interested in it. I have experienced 60 degree swings in the same day and 90 degree swings in 2 days while elk hunting. If you go out west with a fussy load, you're screwed because the AVERAGE day will see a 40 degree temp variance in the mountains.
Another great one. Do you think the retumbo load would have still shot great in cold weather?
I mostly hunt with barrel burners.
For overbore cartridges that are being picky, what 2 powders would you start with. Also, would a 28 inch barrel be worthwhile?
And if you don't mind, I have a 300mag that I'm really having trouble with.
Would you recommend a couple powders?
Thanks a lot for any questions you may answer, and the great content.
Great video. Love the hat! Have you done a series on .257’s (25-06). Also your opinion on Hammer Bullets?
Thanks Bob! We have not done a series on the 257's. I would love to, but I'm not sure there is enough demand for it.
I haven't used Hammers personally. From what I hear they are easy to make shoot small. I understand how they work terminally and I'm not sure if it's better or worse than a CX or LRX. I like the idea of it exiting, but I'm not sure they expand enough to effectively transfer energy. Some guys love them though.
Just built a 30 Nosler and tried the 182 Hammer . Using Retumbo at 79.5 gr and .030 off it shot .469 with a sd of 8 and es of 12 3106 fps. Will see how it does on Elk the week after next in WY. If interested I will send you the results. Thanks again for your videos, have learned a lot!
7PRC with 160 gr. CX through Elk at an angle was found under the opposite side of the rear ball joint. Expanded perfect.
Shot at 375 yards
@kaiblackout6216 congratulations man, that's awesome! Shot quartering to and you found the bullet in the back hip? Mercy! End to end.
That's a game bullet!
@@LittleCrowGunworks He was initially at 675. Cow called into 375. Facing me, CX took out top of heart and penetrated. Devastating bullet to ELK! Took 3 steps and went down.
@kaiblackout6216 that is outstanding! I'm very happy that everything went well for you. No tracking needed. That's pretty hard to beat.
I’m liking the 7 PRC, buuuuut 3300 fps is beast and more forgiving in the wind.
@@jackbolen5001 absolutely Jack. Horsepower has its place. Big wind is one of those places.
👍
Would this be the best load development process?:
If rifle is new start here:
1) shoot 80 rounds of anything to break in the barrel
If barrel is broken in start here:
2) clean throughly and shoot another 20 rounds
3) begin seating depth test. Find the lands and test in increments subtracting 3 thou
4) perform ladder test (with seating depth from step 3) with 3 powders making 10 rounds total with 3 grains under max load and increase in 0.3gr increments to max load
5) select 2-3 sweet spots from the ladder test. And verify with 2-3 3 shot groups.
6) test best 1-2 loads at max range
@joemarkivich635 yes. That is the LEAST AMOUNT of work/rounds fired to find a great load. If you want to be more thorough. Do 3 shots of each charge weight and shoot them at their own dot (10 dots).
We will be doing a video series on this exact process, which I began filming this week.
How would you feel about a 28” 26 nosler shooting a 123gr Apex Afterburner with a g7 of 0.3 at likely 3500 fps over n570 as an elk round?
@Snailz5 I'm not crazy about any 6.5mm on Elk. That would be a laser of a deer/pronghorn round though.
If your picking a .338 caliber what are you going with? 338 win mag, 33 nos, 338 wby rpm, 338-06, 338 RUM, 340 wby, 338-378 wby? Im curious what your thoughts are.
@awdam0220 it depends on MANY variables. More so with that bore diameter than ANY other.
How far are you intending to shoot? What animals, what rifle, barrel length, and magazine length, are you handloading or not?
In that order of importance.
Answer those, and I can recommend a cartridge.
@littlecrowgunworks Inside of 800 yards, elk mainly in Utah with the idea that it will be good on moose and brown bear one day when I can afford an Alaska trip. Rifle would likely be custom. Barrel length 26-28 inches. Mag length not important as long as the bullets fit, I would be handloading.
@awdam0220 A 338 Norma Magnum or Lapua magnum is the easy button. A 338RPM if you're willing to reel it in to 600yds. I wouldn't use any of the others you mentioned. The reamer designs and brass quality are lousy.
I would do a 28" barrel for all 3 cartridges. And if you go with the RPM, throat it out and use a rifle with a 3.600 or longer magazine.
We would love to build this beast for you.
@LittleCrowGunworks i would love to look into this with you and have you build me a rifle! I like your recommendation for the RPM, what's the best way to get in contact with you and hammer details out?
@@awdam0220 call the shop on Mondays and ask for me.
320-796-0530
👍
Love this series! What’s the publish dates on that 6.5 showdown? 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC, 6.5 RPM?
Hopefully never.
@@jamesmooney5348 Why’s that?
@@WCFD5045 I'm going to guess that James is ANTI - 6.5 anything.
@WCFD5045 Because so many people brainlessly jump on the 6.5 craze.
Just because the 6.5's can ring steel at distance, dont mean they have the killing effect of 160 gr .284 cal. Because they don't!
And theae videos teach that, i believe.
I'm also a huge fan of Nathan Foster and what he teaches in his books.
Bottom line is .257 and .264 need or rely on speed to kill. When they have speed, they kill fast and hard.
I figured. This could be a fun discussion….
Two EIGHT rolls
Lesson: Dont run the balls off of anything!
That's how it is at the top. It can shoot amazing! Until it doesn't.
👍