Advice for Those Living In a Sexless Marriage.
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- Опубліковано 14 лип 2024
- Christopher addresses a husband's struggle with intimacy in his marriage after having children, exploring the underlying issues and offering actionable advice. From recognizing the true meaning of intimacy to understanding the impact of past abuse, this video provides a comprehensive guide to healing and building a stronger marital bond. Join us as we delve into practical steps, theological insights, and personal stories that can transform your relationship.
@restoretheglorypodcast episode 36: • Episode 36 - Healing i...
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00:00 Question
00:35 What is True Intimacy?
02:38 John Paul II's Scandalous Statement
03:49 God's Original Plan for Marriage
04:58 Marriage as a Sacrament
06:00 The Wounds of Your Spouse
07:07 Hard Advice...
08:53 Why the Enemy Hates Marriage
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Thought this said Saxless at first glance. Thought, "My marriage has zero saxophones. Is it supposed too??!"
😂
😂😂😂 that’s so funny!
HA! Saxophones are definitely not necessary for marriage.
@@TheologyoftheBodyInstituteI would beg to differ.
No saxophones in the household? Rookie mistake
Honestly this felt like “the woman can never be wrong in this scenario, it’s always your fault in some way” which may be the case here but is not comprehensive or helpful in many scenarios
In my opinion, a lot of Catholic speakers who are otherwise orthodox like to extend olive branches to the liberals on various ways so they cannot be accused of being anti-feminist, etc. I feel like too much, the feeling I get from chastity speakers is that women are these beautiful and faultless beings who never have a concupiscent desire and men are sex-crazed dogs that need to repent. To be fair, there have been more than a few men that provide fuel for that stereotype, but it’s unhelpful for us.
Well yes, I think if he were speaking to a woman he would give a different answer. The fact he’s giving advice to the man is a factor.
Yes, and I commented on that, and they recommended more videos with more nuances on the topic.
What most beta pastors do is make the man feel ashamed for zeggsually desiring his own wife, as if his honest feelings for his wife were a product of the fall (sin). He didn't look at the woman, who was zeggsually active with her own hubby, then she switched off after pregnancy. And that has a remedy! She deprives her hubby (disobeying the Bible), but he blames the man for seeing zeggs as selfishness. It's the other way around! It's frustrating for a man to keep hearing these out-of-reality advices.
Husbands must be holy and faithful to their wives, like God to his Church.
Be the man of the house.
Fix everything that needs to be fixed around the house.
Help with the housekeeping. If she works, it must be 50/50.
The must beautiful things in a man is his strength, his ability to protect and provide.
Lastly, you can't make the melody without learning to 1st play the cords.
@@eliwithgod4848 And still... the wife has the right to say "no" to zeggs. And the beta pastor will tell him "It's still your fault. Maybe you're not holy enough." Hahaha
Please pray for me.
My wife has been scared of having more children for 4 years now, and we are both extremely busy people. I trust in God, but definitely burn with passion that is never satisfied in my marriage.
Thank you.
Prayers brother. It’s one thing to live celibacy while single (my case), but quite another to live it while married. I feel like it would be that much harder because you started out getting a taste of this amazing thing and then it is withheld from you, as well as the pain in knowing you aren’t getting what you signed up for.
Fear of children is a sin. If she had medical complications there are many ways to address that outside of withholding the marriage debt. My sympathy to you as a wife. My husband and I both agreed before marriage that we understood saying no is a sin and we will have all children that come naturally. Your wife needs serious spiritual guidance. She didn't marry to fear the very foundation of such. I would do a perpetual novena to St. Anne for her. And consecrate the family to the Sacred Heart.
@@louis-vd3ur Thank you for your prayer recommendations. This is very good advice. God bless!
Bless you and yours as well. Motherhood is a journey to sainthood. Fear is a son so to fear being a mother as you are one is....very disordered. Spread the word!
*sin not "son"
Honesty as a woman, I do agree men shouldn't be "its all about me" but neither should women. I mean, the marriage is with two people, not just one over the other. Men need love? Of course, they do. We all do, and a husband and wife have the unique place to give that sort of attention that no one else can.
When does the man's feelings come into this as well? How would you feel if you are constantly rejected by the person vowed to love and cherish you until death?
Honestly, I live in a sexless marriage, because of different (medical for him) reasons. It's challenging to yourself image. I have learned that sex isn't a "must" for love. However, its gone from what can't be done... to "nothing at all." That starts to hit your soul in certain ways.
Like its not just adults that need physical affection. There was a documentary about children in an orphanage that were given everything that was basic for living. Food, clothes..shelter, baths.. etc. However, they were never held, or given any sort of loving affection or interaction, and these poor children were literally dying!
I'm not saying its to that extreme, but always being refused by the one who is suppose to be your "forever person" That is really harsh isn't it?
Now my situation can't really be helped all that much. There is a medical aspect to it, but... I couldn't fathom turning him down. Because I still love him this much. Why would I want to hurt him by "always" rejecting him? That's just mean.
Women say "If you loved me, respect me." Which is true.. that should be, and helping them around the house, so that she's not so tired. (that is if you're not already)
But also.. Women if you love him.. stop being selfish and rejecting him all the time. He's got feelings and wounds too that need healing. You're creating More by rejecting him constantly... stop it!
Marriage is Two people supporting and loving, and working together. Serving one an other. All the fault doesn't lay on women.... but all the fault doesn't lay on Men either.. if you have issues... Work through them together.. it will strengthen the bond that's suppose to be there.
Men's feelings, the need to feel loved, and thoughts on this also count!
Seems like all there is to it is "cry abt it and go to Jesus."
Im getting married in less than 20 days and the thought of my spouse eventually seeing me as undesirable and preferring to just live as my roomate feels pretty crushing. I dont know how men cope and live through that isolation. Hobbies? Overtime? Volunteer work?
Yessir, prostrate yourself before your bride to try and earn intimacy and if it doesn't work just offer up your suffering. You're bad for wanting to have sex in marriage and its a sign that you're messing up when she gets the 20 year migraine
I'm a married woman, so giving you a woman's perspective. If you're open with her and are present to her emotional needs, not like the weird 'be in touch with your feminine side' nonsense, but being the man on whom she can depend on, cry on, go to help for, believe me, you would NEVER become a roommate. I recommend going further towards her while reading her cues rather than running away towards hobbies etc. that you mentioned. And not just her cues, but gently and truthfully communicating your feelings too would actually help her trust you more and bring you both closer.
Congratulations at your upcoming wedding ✝️ God bless you both 😊.
I am guessing this video is addressing this specific situation because as general advice it is terrible. I've been married for 40 years and anytime either spouse is put in to forced celibacy, it is not a good situation. If a spouse (husband or wife) reasonably asks to be intimate over a period of time and are denied, it is a sin .And having been through it, it is crushing to live like roommates. I've asked several priests and deacons about it and they have confirmed that it is a sin. Quite frankly, I am tired of hearing that if men ask they are some kind of emotionless and mindless sex predators and their wives are victims. Every situation is different, So it might be a good idea if you and your intended, sit down with a priest or maybe even more than one, and talk about this as soon as you can so both know what it all means.
@@TheMDelimaI agree that there are many women who become roommates because of their husband not paying attention to them, etc, but some of them will do that even if you do everything right. I feel like there is this narrative to paint all men as tone deaf Homer Simpsons and all women as neglected victims, when women can be just as awful toward men as men are to women.
@@donbarron1123sounds like you’ve had a serious problem with a lack of sex in your marriage. You are not *entitled* to it. The happiest couples I know are the ones who don’t expect every certain amount of days. They respect and love each other enough to know there are ebbs in flows. Sometimes it might happen a lot and other times there needs to be a long break(like after a baby). When you guilt a woman because it’s “been too long,” she will definitely lose desire and respect for the man. Why is that her fault? She needs free agency over her body.
The theology is beautiful (and am in no way denying it), but I think we sometimes over-theologize things that are a lot more practical than we make them out to be. Sure, every time a married couple has sex, they are participating in their sacrament, much like when a priest celebrates the Mass, he is participating in his. But I don’t think every time a husband (or a wife, for that matter), wants to have sex, it has to be this big lofty thing where you go over your wedding vows and read the Song of Songs and Ephesians 5 first. Sex should be very normal. Just like celebrating the Eucharist becomes very “normal” (though no less special) for a priest. I think many women do not realize how much of a need sex is for men (occasionally, it's the man who doesn't understand his wife's need). Unless there are health issues or the couple has agreed for some reason to abstain from sex, such as for natural family planning, it is very unhealthy not to have sex on a regular basis. The spouse who desires sex more (usually the man) will come to feel unseen, devalued, and like his needs don't matter. It's not just that he's horny (I apologize to those who are easily scandalized) and needs a physical release-but what is wrong with that, anyway? I think Paul was being very practical when he said it is better to marry than burn with lust. After all, sex is a biological reality as well as a spiritual reality (let's resist the temptation to be Gnostics). But sex is a way that a man gives and receives love. Sure, some women withdraw from sex because there is a legitimate level of disrespect, but there are many who stop having sex for no good reason, and this is a form of not loving your husband the way he deserves to be loved, and is actually not keeping your wedding vows (and i say this to men who do this to their wives as well). And before you use trauma as an excuse not to have sex with your spouse, please consider the traumatizing effects not having sex with your spouse has on him or her, on his own feelings of acceptance, attractiveness, desirability. It's nice to read JPII and talk about Aristotle and talk about therapy, but sometimes we need to stop psychoanalyzing everything, and, in this case, just have sex.
Also, I love how you say that the man probably isn’t paying attention to his wife or not desiring to have intimacy with her in the right way, but you have no idea from what he actually said that that is the case. You basically shamed him (though perhaps unintentionally) for having a basic human, even divine, desire and expressing his sadness that his wife is not receiving him in that desire, even to the point of gaslighting him and saying he is too sensitive and needy, which are common things emotional manipulators say. I feel like if he said that to the woman, you would take objection. In fact, you take objection to the to the mere possibility that that he *might* be dismissive to her needs while not even mentioning anything about her hurtful and *actual* dismissals of his feelings and needs. This man is hurting, and he has every right to have his feelings validated, rather than to be made to feel worse. All I can say is that if my future wife decides to stop having sex with me, I would be crushed and feel very unloved and also very sexually frustrated, which is simply an uncharitable thing to do to someone.
Let’s stop the virtue signaling, and admit that women can be wrong too.
How does a catholic married couple stay in grace if they are committing the sin of “spilling their seed” by having sec just because there is an itch that needs to be scratched? You clearly have not understood the theology of the body nor the church’s teachings on this. You are not an animal, you are a human. Sex is a divine sacrament not just a form of pleasure to scratch that itch you need. Your mindset unfortunately is skewed with disorder. I will pray for you today. Try your best to build yourself up with virtue by slowly tackling those deadly sins - lust being one of them.
Men could stop being so hurt about not having sex at there many moments of desire (or is lust?). The desire is good but acting on it in an unhealthy way is not. Sexual coercion and guilting woman is going to make them feel objectified and over time they will lose their desire and will likely cringe at the thought of physical touch from someone who doesn’t truly respect her. I don’t see women doing the same thing to men.
This is really well written. Agree
@@angelamargaretmary there are some typos here that make this reply unintelligible. Please clarify
@@angelamargaretmary I agree that sexual coercion is not good, especially as someone who has suffered it myself and at the hands of a woman, which I know fits neither the politically correct agenda nor the narrative of the chastity speakers. I agree that not acting upon your sexual desire, or any desire, for that matter, in a healthy way is not a good thing. However, I disagree with the prevailing narrative among chastity speakers that husbands who want more sex are wrong for wanting it and need to pray more and be less lustful, that they are being unreasonable to their wives, and that the reason their wives don’t want to have sex is because the man necessarily did or is doing something wrong. Asking to have more sex is not coercion, it’s a healthy communication of needs. And just because a woman might feel guilt if her husband discusses her reluctance to have sex with him doesn’t mean the husband is guilt-tripping her, it just means she has a conscience.
To be fair, there are men who are dogs, and I don’t approve of that! But that’s a far cry from the average married man who is left sexually frustrated by his wife save once every three weeks/months/years!
This couldn’t have come at a better time! 🙏🏻 Christopher when you talk about staying in that ache, what does that practically look like? How do we “offer it up”?
We're glad it was helpful! These videos will offer some practical scenarios on "staying in the ache." Hope they're helpful:
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I am a woman with a high sex drive I guess because when I was married I always wanted physical intimacy. Even when I was angry at my ex husband I still wanted it. After we had children It was less than the first five years, it went down to 3x per week. I feel like I am dying now that I am single. It went from nearly every day for 10 years to nothing.
The only explanation I can think of for why some women don’t want it that much is confidence. If I was okay with the way my body looked then I always wanted it.
Good for you unfortunately most females are lesbians this is the root issue that most people will completely ruleout every husband should have a wife like u
I'm with you I'm a woman who also misses sex, I have struggled with the lack of sex and intimacy in my marriage for years, now I finally have just...... I let it be, if he wants me I am there (once a month if I'm lucky) and if not I am on my own.
This is the reason everyone should marry people with whom their drive matches and another reason is most females are lesbians
I bet this kind of pastor is unaware that women want zeggs.
Well if you ask Mr West he'll tell you you're lustful and selfish. It seems to be his go to for everything?
I love your honesty. I can tell your advice comes from your heart, as you even referred your listener to another Catholic preacher.
Thank you for watching! Please keep us in your prayers.
@@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute I will! ❤🙏
Plenty of comments on here claim that the wife is awful for not having sex with her husband. We don't know the full story of what's going on in the situation. For all we know, the time spent in marriage counseling is helping the wife see that she needs to seek individual professional healing for the abuse that she went through. That takes time to resolve. To demand that someone should have sex with their spouse when they're suffering from unresolved trauma is cruel. She may even have post-traumatic stress disorder. I recommend researching what happens after experiencing traumatic events to better understand what she's going through. There's another video on this channel where Christopher talks about the marital debt and gives advice on how to go about it in a loving way.
Trauma is complicated. Research says that sometimes after certain life events that people who experienced trauma discover that they have other problems that they didn't expect would come up. On top of that, people don't always realize how their past continues to effect them. I'm not claiming that the husband is at fault. Sometimes it isn't either spouse's fault.
Its amazing how when they are with the bad boys, they never have these issues.
By far and large, most women settle. This is what men all over the western world are figuring out.
Men are becoming more discerning.
Thank you for addressing this issue. I have searched and searched for resources about this issue. Please continue to delve into this topic, incl. men who refuse sex with their wives.
We're glad it was helpful! A great resource is Christopher's "Good News About Sex And Marriage" You can find it here: shop.corproject.com/products/good-news-about-sex-and-marriage but we also have this free playlist where he walks you through the book: ua-cam.com/play/PLAbqXQaOvkM4Q01szl54g7Sj9mJ8bfKf0.html&si=zZG7qYfniz9J_KKB
@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute thanks. I read it years ago but that was before the issue of sexless marriage entered my extended family. I hope TOB will continue to address this issue. There are few resources available that I know of. Blessings to you all!
This is so well timed that there is no way God wants me to sit aside on important issues like this as a 28 year old man and to go and open up speaking about what God has done for me sexually with my sins and also the infused knowledge he puts upon my soul to share with others. This video is making it more and clear to me what my purpose and mission is in the world… to bear witness to the Truth letting the Spirit use me to speak to others bringing the Scriptures alive and also let God use me to bring my prodigal brothers and sisters back to Him.
The thoughts that the Holy Spirit put upon my heart to share is that sex is Divine and so sacred that no wonder why sexual sin is such an abomination to God as sex is a deep reflection of the Trinity of God when done with purity and selflessness. There are other ways to be intimate that aren’t just sex.
Men and women are made to be like the Father (in the sense of giving all that they have even their knowledge and wisdom and bodies to the spouse creating and maintaining the relationship of love) and the Son (being the head of the family as a husband and leading his family into holiness interceding in prayer for everyone and the wife being the first one to teach the children and nurture them with love often times with breastfeeding and give them the faith while helping the husband where he is weak and inspiring him to act on the graces of God as the helper) and the Spirit (both spouses being the pillar of grace and love for each other thus the fruits of such love being that breathe of life shared to each other within the marriage and outside to the whole world even children.)
One of my biggest fears.
After fear itself, getting what you want, and not getting it.
Don’t get married.
@@ozzycortes
Don't have friends.
@@pasalasaga That’s your choice. You can’t be friends with everyone you meet.
@@ozzycortes your comment doesn't make sense. Why wouldn't I be married?
Anybody single with no sex life here?
Trust me it's FAR better to be single with no sex than in a sexless relationship. It's a complete nightmare.
On a Deacon's discussion FB page they posed the question of a 57 YO man using Viagra - moral or immoral. Your opinion based on TOB?
Thank you for your honest question! Viagra is a reproductive technology that aids a couple that engages in the marital embrace to achieve its natural end. Christopher get's into some details in this video ua-cam.com/video/uEo57_w9eVY/v-deo.html but if you'd like to take a deep dive, then we'd highly recommend his book "Good News About Sex And Marriage" You can find it here: shop.corproject.com/products/good-news-about-sex-and-marriage
When it comes to marriage, most Men don’t know what they’re signing up for.
I take my wife on dates and flowers. Im the most romantic guy ever, and she never wants sex. I try so hard. I have read books and watched self-help dvds on marriage and relationships to become closer. now im giving up 😢
Have you ever asked her point blank- When we married, I’m understood that I’m only allowed to be intimate with you. If it’s meaningless to you, how do you suggest I go about getting my intimacy desires and wants met, if not with you?
There may be something that makes it difficult for her. Something physical which would trouble her to discuss. There are lots of such things. It’s part of being a woman.
Our job is the difficult one: to love the woman, not the relationship.
Immerse yourself in your hobbies
Try therapy with a good Catholic counsellor.
*Maybe I’m cut from a different cloth.* If I try to initiate and my wife rejects me with any excuse- I’m content with not attempting again until she brings it up. I don’t know, maybe I’m weird but if I’m the only one initiating, then I feel like I’m coercing or begging. I'd rather get no action than "Obligation action".
Mr West seems to forget there's a passage in the Bible about marital debt? - where does that fits into his equation.
I am perhaps like you. It has been more than twenty years now. She doesn’t bring it up. There’s time to pray.
NFP can be very difficult sometimes…
Don’t settle for less. That is all.
Many repetitive comments about "being g in the mood". It is said spouses obligation to temper their emotions in order to be available to the other spouse. If you need to exercise, drink herbal tease, listen to soothing music to " get in the mood" that is your responsibility in order to better serve your soouse. Don't wait for them to come begging with an excuse that you have put in zero effort to be available. That should be a part of your daily routine to get in the mood if it takes you preparation. It is not the other spouses job to get you in the mood.
I have a high libido. But when I was in a bad relationship sex was the last thing on my mind. As a woman I need to have the intimacy Christopher is talking about before being able to have the psychical intimacy.
Now that I’m in an awesome marriage I could do the dance every day if hubby was willing. My husband shows me love every day which makes me want him.
But even if I’m stressed or anxious and sex is long from my mind, I would never say no to him. Because I know how much that hurts. And usually the act itself gives you the lust you might be lacking.
TLDR: if the marriage is a happy one, psychical intimacy will flow.
"And usually the act itself gives you the LUST you might be lacking." Lust is disordered and like Christopher said sinful. Sexual attraction on the other hand is good. He explains the difference in the video The "Marital Debt" Explained (with Wendy West).
@@ThanksHermioneyou know what I mean.
Giving of the marriage debt is not predicated on how one feels about the other spouse. That is the issue with being withholding. Happy or not the debt is owed.
@@louis-vd3ur Sex for women is about feeling safe and loved.
You may not have as high drive as you might thing if your sex drive is dependent on other factors like love and emotions then that is not true sex drive you are demisexual
Praise christ
So basically there’s no solution since it’s impossible for a woman to be wrong or have any responsibility towards her husband... you might as well be some flavor of bubblegum evangelical.
Most women settle. They are not with the men that they really want.
That is correct. It's best if the man is slightly out of the woman's "league", that is, if the woman thinks she got a man better than what she deserved. When it comes to dating women tend to date across and up in terms up money and attractiveness, where as men date across and down. When a woman settles for a man on her "level" or even worse a man below her, the marriage doesn't tend to go very well.
@@bobcobb158that's actually a really good point that I hadn't thought of, if the man is slightly out of the woman's league shes much more likely to want to be intimate, and may even be the one initiating it more
This seems like good advice for someone dealing with the need to heal from sexual trauma and wounds. I am not hearing any good advice for spouses who are withholding sex in a marriage where there isn't past sexual trauma at play, though.
I am a strong proponent of Theology of the Body, generally speaking. However, I rarely see this type of conversation ever dealt with from the standpoint of basic rights and responsibilities in marriage. In a non-sexual trauma history situation, why can't we just plainly teach what the Church and Bible has taught for 2000+ years?
My experience is the modern world is so feminized we refuse to state the obvious, that to give a "gift of self" means the requirement to render what is justly due in marriage when a spouse seriously asks: full stop. To do otherwise is to fail to make a "gift of yourself" and very likely to commit grave sin.
The modern world is so quick to tell men they need to do x, y, and z to make their wife feel more like they want to give the gift of themselves to their spouse. Instead, we should be teaching women (or any sexually withholding spouse), as the Bible does, we have a responsibility to our spouse to "make a gift of ourselves" to our spouse, even when we don't want to because it is our duty and what is best for the marriage and our spouse.
1 Corinthians 7:
But because of the temptation to immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not rule over her own body, but the husband does; likewise the husband does not rule over his own body, but the wife does. Do not refuse one another except perhaps by agreement for a season, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, lest Satan tempt you through lack of self-control.
Casti Cannubii:
The second blessing of matrimony which we said was mentioned by St. Augustine, is the blessing of conjugal honor which consists in the mutual fidelity of the spouses in fulfilling the marriage contract, so that what belongs to one of the parties by reason of this contract sanctioned by divine law, may not be denied to him or permitted to any third person; nor may there be conceded to one of the parties anything which, being contrary to the rights and laws of God and entirely opposed to matrimonial faith, can never be conceded.258
Thomas Aquinas:
Since the wife has power of her husband's body, and "vice versa," with regard to the act of procreation, the one is bound to pay the debt to the other, at any season or hour, with due regard to the decorum required in such matters, for this must not be done at once openly.
St. Thomas, then, goes on to say, "For it is ordained by God, on account of the weakness of the flesh, that the debt must always be paid to the one who asks lest he be afforded an occasion of sin."
Gordon, Stephanie. Ask Your Husband: A Wife’s Guide to True Femininity (pp. 193-194). Archangel Ink. Kindle Edition.
Prummer Moral Theology:
860. 2. THE OBLIGATION TO RENDER THE MARRIAGE DUES.
FIRST PRINCIPLE. As often as one of the parties asks reasonably and seriously for the rendering of the marriage dues the other is bound in justice to accede to the request otherwise grave sin is comtnitted. The request must be reasonable and serious.
EXPLANATION.
The request is unreasonable if made in a state of drunkenness, or when one of the parties is seriously ill, or if the request is too frequent or causes scandal to others, or if the act is accompanied by the practice of onanism. The request is not considered serious if made in the form of a desire rather than a definite will. But if the request is reasonable and serious, then the other party is obliged in justice to render the marriage debt under pain of grievous sin, as is evident a) from the words of St. Paul quoted above, and b) from the nature of the marriage contract in which the right to sexual intercourse is handed over from one party to the other. This obligation of rendering the marriage dues, although of its nature serious since it is concerned with a grave matter stipulated in a just contract, does admit of parvity of matter. Thus, if the wife were to refuse marital relations once or twice, awaiting a time more suitable to herself she would not be guilty of grave sin-at least, if the husband is not thereby placed in proximate danger of incontinence or provoked to excessive anger.
It is self-evident that there is no obligation to render these dues if one of the parties has forfeited the right to ask for them by reason of his or her adultery or as the result of severance of conjugal relations having been legitimately obtained.
Prümmer Dominicus M. (1984). Handbook of moral theology. Ft. Collins, CO: Roman Catholic Books. p. 411
No man or woman, even within marriage, have a right to demand sex of their spouse if the spouse truly does not desire it. It is ok for a person to say no to sex. The sexual obligation in marriage means that they will only have sex with their spouse, not that it’s something that can be taken whenever there is an urge from one party. As someone who followed this advice for many years and is now dealing with the fallout of it, this is a very dangerous message to try and teach other Catholics, to the detriment of turning them away from the faith altogether. A truly loving and respectful marriage can handle the ebbs and flows of the sexual union. A truly loving spouse will understand where the other spouse is physically and mentally and can respectfully love the spouse without sex, and would never think to ask for sex when the spouse isn’t on board.
@@angelamargaretmary "A truly loving spouse...would never think to ask for sex when the spouse isn’t on board." Agreed. 100%. I am certainly not advocating for a cold, transactional, type of request for the conjugal act that would violate what JPII called the "personalistic norm". That is simply using your spouse for hedonistic purposes and would also be a sin on the part of the requester. However, it is actually completely against Church teaching to say that it is ok (as in to imply it is a metaphysical good) for a spouse to say to no to sex if the other is making a serious request and is not asking for anything that goes against the moral order.
Casti Cannubii:
19. The second blessing of matrimony which we said was mentioned by St. Augustine, is the blessing of conjugal honor which consists in the mutual fidelity of the spouses in fulfilling the marriage contract, so that what belongs to one of the parties by reason of this contract sanctioned by divine law, may not be denied to him or permitted to any third person; nor may there be conceded to one of the parties anything which, being contrary to the rights and laws of God and entirely opposed to matrimonial faith, can never be conceded.
25. By this same love it is necessary that all the other rights and duties of the marriage state be regulated as the words of the Apostle: "Let the husband render the debt to the wife, and the wife also in like manner to the husband,"[28] express not only a law of justice but of charity.
It is an act of love and self-gift for a spouse to render the conjugal act. To say no to serious request is to not make a gift of self. This self-gift idea goes both ways for both spouses.
It is too bad that many proponents of the Theology of the Body can make such a big deal about making a total gift of self to your spouse and then not teach plainly that this can and should mean that a spouse render the conjugal act even when they don't necessarily feel like if the other spouse is making a serious request (not one that violates the personalistic norm). It seems the default nowadays to completely ignore any notion of rights and duties when it comes to the conjugal act. To try and say 1 Corintians 7 is simply teaching against adultery is not a remotely valid reading. It clearly is teaching about the duty of rendering the conjugal act itself:
"The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not rule over her own body, but the husband does; likewise the husband does not rule over his own body, but the wife does. Do not refuse one another except perhaps by agreement for a season, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, lest Satan tempt you through lack of self-control.:
At the end of the day, a faithful Catholic man will have to endure a sexless marriage if the wife decides to withold it. That will be his cross to bear, and that is what a God loving (and fearing) man will do. But it doesn't have to be that way.
I implore Catholic wives, who can admit that they are the main reason their marriage has become sexless: don't allow your sins to doom your marriage. It is your responsibility to seek the help you need to turn things around, and if you choose not to, there will be a sorrowful price to be paid. God bless you.
@@angelamargaretmary
Yeah but I think I would feel undesirable and ugly and unloved if my husband didn’t ask me for sex. Or worse if I asked and he said no, it would really hurt my confidence, not just in my own general attractiveness but my confidence in my husband as being for me. I would also wonder if he was gay. I’m a woman who needed it every day from my ex husband. We waited for marriage (Protestant ) why wait after marriage. Isn’t that selfish? I must have a high drive because I can’t understand why a woman wouldn’t want to sleep with the man that she loves.
@@philfrank5601 Well said. I firmly agree that spouses in a sexless marriage against their will are called to carry a cross and pray for their spouses conversion of heart. There simply isn't another option.
I would add I am coming to the realization that the many feminist ideas that pervade society, as a whole, are really to blame for a lot of people's disordered mindsets towards sex. The part that has taken time to come to fully realize is how much even well-intentioned Catholic sources contribute to this confusion, including quite often TOBI.
Feminism has significantly undermined two key concepts: 1) the hierarchical nature of marriage mirroring the relationship between Christ (husband) and the Church (wife), and 2) the conjugal duties and obligations inherent in marriage. In a properly ordered marriage, a loving complementarity exists where the husband serves the family as a benevolent leader and the wife serves as a caring and supportive partner. Together, they form the head and heart of the family, united in pursuit of union with God.
Ephesians 5
22 Wives, be subject to your husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. 24 As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands. 25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.
Casti Cannubii
"27. This subjection, however, does not deny or take away the liberty which fully belongs to the woman both in view of her dignity as a human person, and in view of her most noble office as wife and mother and companion; nor does it bid her obey her husband's every request if not in harmony with right reason or with the dignity due to wife; nor, in fine, does it imply that the wife should be put on a level with those persons who in law are called minors, to whom it is not customary to allow free exercise of their rights on account of their lack of mature judgment, or of their ignorance of human affairs. But it forbids that exaggerated liberty which cares not for the good of the family; it forbids that in this body which is the family, the heart be separated from the head to the great detriment of the whole body and the proximate danger of ruin. For if the man is the head, the woman is the heart, and as he occupies the chief place in ruling, so she may and ought to claim for herself the chief place in love."
Instead, we often hear people discussing only mutual submission and egalitarian ideas between spouses. This isn't a tenable Christian position and fosters an environment where disordered relationships are normalized. These large-scale problems can only be addressed when more people advocate for a return to a properly ordered marriage.
JPII's "Love and Responsibility" profoundly impacted my understanding of love and self-gift. However, his teachings seem to have been misinterpreted through a feminist lens, often applying the concept of self-gift unilaterally in conjugal matters. This misinterpretation unfortunately neglects the 'responsibility' aspect emphasized in the book's title.
We need to reshape the culture to teach that women also have marital responsibilities. Denying sex to a spouse making a serious and morally licit request goes against the marriage covenant and God's directive to render the marital debt. True self-gift includes fulfilling one's spousal duties, even when challenging. Unjustified denial is clearly the selfish act.
I don't expect to see much change in this arena until entities like the TOBI stop shying away from basic Christain teachings on marriage that include rights and duties of spouses, especially surrounding the marital act.
If a woman does not want to have sex with her husband, then that indicates there is a problem. If the woman doesn't view a sexless marriage as a problem, that too is a problem.
Problems can be solved. It's much harder if someone chooses to ignore the problem, or worse, not even see it as a problem. This is denial.
In a Catholic marriage, wives must understand that a Catholic husband has absolutely zero means with which to satisfy his sexual needs without the cooperation of his wife. Zero. And Catholic husbands don't WANT other options: it's part of why they got married.
When a Catholic wife chooses to deny her husband sex, and refuses to acknowledge or understand why, she places her marriage in great peril. Only she knows why this is, sadly.
Many marriages will fall apart due to the lack of a normal, healthy sexual relationship. Catholic women should know this more than anyone, if they profess to know.their faith.
Men should be empathized with when they realize they'll have to live the rest of their liveswin a sexless marriage, not ridiculed or gaslighted into thinking this is their fault.
We all have crosses to bear, but for the love of God, literally...why do we always blame the husband when this happens? Could it simply be that most wives will eventually not want sex, and their husbands will be forced into a life of celibacy that they never signed up for, especially when the wife simply doesn't feel like it anymore?
We live in a broken world, and this is just one of the major things wrong with it. I refuse to shame Catholic men who married with good intention and follow God in their lives, only to have their wives punish them with something they'll never be able to understand: men need sex. That's just a fact. We all know this, yet unlike other needs, men are shamed when they state the truth.
It's a cross to bear, and good Catholic men will bear it. But it is not fair, and it is not right. Wives have a huge role in what is going on in these sexless marriages, and if they profess to be faithful Catholic women, then they should also understand they have a cross to bear as well. If having to sleep with yiur husband is your cross, then you have a PROBLEM. It is not your husband's problem to fix, but if he is a good Catholic husband, then he will be there for you in every way. But don't actively play the role in destroying the sexual aspect of your marriage simply because you're too afraid to solve your problems. And you'll end up with a bigger problem in the end, for certain.
God bless all good, faithful Catholic husbands and wives.
Maybe she just doesn’t want to get pregnant again. I know I would not want to have 8 kids, I would rather die than have even 5 kids without a nanny. She might say she’s open to having a baby but subconsciously doesn’t want to because if she did then she’d do what it took in order to have a baby. Try giving her some wine 🍷 before bed. That always worked on me. My ex husband used to come home with a bottle of wine pretty often and we had sex nearly daily for a decade.
@@Naomi-bw5qs there is natural family planning.
We don't know the full story of what's going on in the situation. For all we know, the time spent in marriage counseling is helping the wife see that she needs to seek individual professional healing for the abuse that she went through. That takes time to resolve. To demand that someone should have sex with their spouse when they're suffering from unresolved trauma is cruel. She may even have post-traumatic stress disorder. I recommend researching what happens after experiencing traumatic events to better understand what she's going through. There's another video on this channel where Christopher talks about the marital debt and gives advice on how to go about it in a loving way.
To marry with unresolved trauma that will directly effect the end of marriage is cruel. Asking for what you agreed to and willing to give it is charity.
@@thankyou62 everyone who does NFP has like 6+ kids and they lie to themselves and us pretending they wanted to get pregnant when it’s so obvious from their faces that they’re overwhelmed. NFP does not work.
I hate to say it but my question is could she be saying she was abused just as an excuse not to have sex with her husband ?
@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute
Why do you often use the word 'heart'? My heart doesnt do anything except a heart beat and blood runs through it. My heart is an (internal) organ that cant think. Humans use their rational - critical - thinking or their emotions take over.
Women seem to not understand that men want a wife and not a besty-roomate. St. Thomas Aquinas argued that marriage entails that each spouse give themselves totally and unconditionally to each other, the unitive aspect of the marital embrace- the other being procreative. Thus, for the man or the woman it is a sin to deny their wife or husband of sex. This is within reason as there are times when abstinence is necessitated and spiritually beneficial. There was a case recently on UA-cam where a wife denied her husband's requests 25 times in 3 months, and only agreeing to 3 times. Another wife only relented 3 times in an entire year. That seems like good grounds for an annulment. Obviously the women did not understand the obligations required in what marriage entails.
Hello @geraldmay9408 ! Thank you for your honest comment! If you'd be open to it, here are some videos that provide more nuance into the topic: ua-cam.com/video/57TBg0-C4rM/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/P5EngzZ1-xQ/v-deo.htmlsi=yP51kLBccGJg1xJz
Proverbs 21:9 It is better to dwell on a corner of the roof than to share a house with a
quarrelsome wife.
Yes, men want a wife, not a besty-roommate. They don't want to be treated as just a cash cow, an ATM, an EBT card.
The teleological end of marriage is chastity, read St. Augustine.
Chastity is not abstinence nor celibacy.
@TheOtherWhiteNerd Notice how I didn't say celibacy?
Now, chastity is the virtue that is avowed to in celibacy, so you are right that chastity is not a vow, which makes sense in the marital context as the marital vow does not contain celibacy as the institution of marriage is for the good of the spouses toward the Beatific Vision by endeavoring toward the virtue of chastity through the engagement of the marital act, which should cease as the spouse become more chaste.
@@St.DemetriostheMyrrhGusher Please clarify; did you say that the marital act should eventually cease in marriage?
@@TheOtherWhiteNerd sex is a 'necessary evil' to produce children, but after childbearing has ceased, sex should no longer occur. The couple from that point on are celibate. At least this is the interpretation you'd get if you read the church fathers like Augustine.. none of them seem to be too fond of sex.
The more I listen the more discouraged I get.(I listened to mamy od your podcast) You separate spirit from body. Threre is no balance. Sex drive should be suppressed as long as possibile. The intercourse or body intimacy can be experienced ONLY through vaginal penetration (that's ok) with sperm laid inside and Christian virtue is to know best where the post ovulation time is. Wives wants to be wanted! They wanted IT before marriage and they should be prepared IT won't change for years during marriage. Id a husband is caring, devoted, faithful and honest. IfHe avoids looking at immoral pictures or other women lustfully then IT is sinful for wife to keep him with bodily tension unreleased.
BTW in previous podcast two brothers were taking about scenes from movies where nakedness was presented. True Christian doesn't watch movies with sexual passion or nudity. If IT is ok, let your wives get naked in front od a camera and kids on lips other guys. I would vomit from Anger if my wife did so! You cant explain sinful behavior on movies with artistic concept od motion picture. Jesus should change IT.
Respect and love in Jesus Christ Holy Name anyway!
Greetings from Poland!
He separates the spirit from the body? Well, that's your perception. I personally don't see that. Separating the spirit from the body is literal death. He's made it clear that human beings are both spirit and body. Also, your remarks about nakedness are not in line with what The Church says and practices. Porn is always wrong and so is leering. Nakedness, if done appropriately can be displayed in artwork. The Sistine Chapel at The Vatican features nakedness. Lots of other Catholic artwork has it as well. I encourage you to read the book Redeemed Vision by Steve Pokorny. He's a Catholic author and life coach who helps people find freedom from sexual compulsions, especially porn. He describes in his book how to properly view nudity. He has a podcast where he even interviewed a Catholic priest named Fr. Thomas Loya who's an artist that nudity.
We don't know the full story of what's going on in the situation described in this marriage. For all we know, the time spent in marriage counseling is helping the wife see that she needs to seeking individual professional healing for the abuse that she went through. That takes time to resolve. To demand that someone should have sex with their spouse when they're suffering from unresolved trauma is cruel. She may even have post-traumatic stress disorder. I recommend researching what happens after experiencing traumatic events to better understand what she's going through. There's another video on this channel where Christopher talks about the marital debt and gives advice on how to go about it in a loving way.
There is no more marital brd agter a heart attack 😢 so he says
Both a husband and a wife need to fulfill their marital obligations even if you dont always "feel like it". Its a virtuous cycle
The video Christopher mentions is where a wife went through a time where she needed healing from sexual abuse that she experienced in her childhood. To demand that someone should have sex with their spouse when they're suffering from unresolved trauma is cruel. The woman in this situation appears to need professional help to heal from what she's gone through. She may even have post-traumatic stress disorder.
Thank you for your comment! If you'd be open to it, here are some videos that address the topic: ua-cam.com/video/57TBg0-C4rM/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/P5EngzZ1-xQ/v-deo.htmlsi=yP51kLBccGJg1xJz
@@ThanksHermione maybe, but when she is dismissing her husband as being “too sensitive and needy,” I am much more inclined to think that she is just being an insensitive jerk than that she is some poor, pitiable victim.
the husband wasn't demanding it nor should he. both spouses should be freely offering themselves as gifts. He expressed his longings and she shot him down. He didnt even know what she was going through until they were in counseling.
she should be doing the work to become whole/healthy and restore her marriage. Just like if a man were injured and could no longer work to provide for his family, he should do everything in his power to rehab properly
Wow, UA-cam is getting better at recommending videos.
The counseling must not be very helpful if he's reaching out to this channel. Please know that theology is not therapy. I'd also like to caution you that asking for "advice" isn't a great way to go about this, as the person being asked, such as in this scenario, doesn't know you and the situation nearly well enough to say much of anything useful. There's a reason good counseling takes some time, and honestly it has little to do with offering advice (I am a mental health counselor). I will say that couples and individual counseling are sometimes needed. And don't be afraid to switch counselors, because they are not all created equal.
No Catholic should be going to a marriage counsellor who isn't a Catholic themselves. Period.
@@philfrank5601 I understand that sentiment, but trust me, it's definitely better to have a competent counselor than one who is Catholic but not very competent. Being Catholic doesn't make someone good at what they do. And again, this isn't a deficit in theological knowledge that's causing issues. If that were the case, they would be better served by going to a priest or theologian.
@nickk4851 Every issue is a theological issue.
@@philfrank5601 I’ve gone to Catholic counselors, who were, in fact, quite incompetent. I received much better results when I went to a competent non-Catholic therapist. I am well trained philosophically and theologically, so when they’d occasionally say something problematic, I would make the necessary adjustments.
All he can do is live a Josephite marriage, till one of them dies.
It’s very sad.
It's not the end of the story. For all we know, the time spent in marriage counseling is helping the wife see that she needs to seek individual professional healing for the abuse that she went through. That takes time to resolve. To demand that someone should have sex with their spouse when they're suffering from unresolved trauma is cruel. She may even have post-traumatic stress disorder. I recommend researching what happens after experiencing traumatic events to better understand what she's going through. There's another video on this channel where Christopher talks about the marital debt and gives advice on how to go about it in a loving way.
@thankyou62 Was there something lacking in the marriage of the Blessed Virgin due to its Josephite nature?
@@St.DemetriostheMyrrhGusherThey both agreed to be sexless in their marriage.
@@TheOtherWhiteNerd Yes, and was there marriage lacking due to its sexlessness?
Shaming the husband for wanting sex and or intimacy from and with his wife is wrong. Classic narcissist will make the suffering spouse wrong for wanting relief from the heartaches of lack of sex, or intimacy. Example: Is all you ever think about is sex?” That is in your face cruel. If the husband stays because of sense of responsibility he will learn to absolutely hate the wife. If she does have the rare occasion to be interested in sex, that train will have left the station. An enlightened woman said “When the sex is over, it’s over”. The marriage is not recoverable. Be careful how you treat your spouse, he has expectations for what you agreed to in your marriage vows. If the husband withdraws financial support and security, the wife will not hesitate to terminate the marriage by week end. How is the husband wrong for having expectations from his wife for what she agreed.
Unless you just had surgery, are near dead, or postpartum, saying no is a sin. Period. Marriage says each spouse is indebted to the other via their body. I don't understand sexless marriage and people who do this should be corrected.
Thank you for your comment! If you'd be open to it, here are some videos that address the topic: ua-cam.com/video/57TBg0-C4rM/v-deo.html
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Maybe just me but I’m not into wanting to participate in intimacy if my wife doesn’t want it as much as I do. I rather have nothing than get “obligation” intimacy.
But she and you are literally obligated to each other. If you believe that the marriage debt is conditional that is not true charity. If you want it she should willingly give you what you are indebted to. I joyfully pay my marriage debt as a wife. Anything less I understand to be lack of charity towards my husband whom I chose to be indebted to. Marriage is not a burden. It is a mortal sin to treat each other as such.
@@louis-vd3ur Yeah, I think that’s something I need to work on. If I get rejected, even if it’s valid, I’m content with not trying again. Maybe that’s something I need to work on. I can’t do pity sx.
What is your source for this? The Cathecism and the Theology of the Body absolutely do not give these extreme parameters
I fail to see how this doesn't apply to mother Mary. It seems like a double standard.
Funny how her past wasn't a problem until she had her child, and that his errors are his fault, but her errors are someone else's fault. TOB advocate are some of the most powerful feminists.
Her errors? She was ab*sed..
That’s not funny, that’s how trauma reveals itself. When I had my children there were many things in my past that I started seeing differently and began to affect me in negative ways. I had new fears that I’ve never struggled with before, things I thought I had overcome and now I have to deal with all over again. Having children is kind of like being born again for the mother because your role changes so drastically.
Past trauma does arise in becoming a mother .
I'm guessing you're single, and probably have faced trauma yourself that needs to be dealt with. Please get help for yourself. (This comment is for the original commenter).
@@TheMDelima I'm in a wonderful relationship where we both hold ourselves and each other accountable for our mistakes and relationship growth, but thank you for proving my point about TOB advocates being feminists with the equivalent of "who hurt you, incel?"
nothing wrong with a sexless marriage.
Thank you for keeping our traditions alive against these modernists.
Sure, when both parties have freely chosen that, but even then, it is enough to make on scratch his head. We seem to forget that God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply, and that Jesus told us to make disciples, which, while primarily referring to the act of evangelization, certainly doesn’t preclude sexual intercourse. But a marriage in which one party is consistently refusing sex while the other wants it is very disordered and sinful.
@thankyou62 You seem to be forgetting the Holy Theotokos and Her Most Chaste Spouse had a sexless marriage.
@@St.DemetriostheMyrrhGusher if you view my other replies, you will see I already addressed that. The couple in question here is obviously not the Holy Family, obviously did not have one member immaculately conceived, obviously did not have angels visit them with divine intervention. To compare this marriage to that of Mary and Joseph is unhelpful and irrelevant. Sure, if they both consciously took a vow to abstain from sex, that would be one thing, but that’s not the case here. In fact, they actually took a vow that they would have sex given that they entered into marriage with each other. Sex is a good thing in itself, and a further benefit is that when it is pursued chastely within marriage, it is a strong defense against concupiscence and temptations to infidelity. Keep in mind that in this non-Josephite marriage, neither couple is immaculately conceived and therefore quite prone to desiring sex-there’s a reason that Paul says it is better to marry than to burn with passion. To leave someone you are vowed to to deal with their burning passions is indirectly willing that they be put in a near occasion of sin. It is also demeaning and cruel, makes them feel like you don’t love them, and weakens the bond within marriage.
This is immature. The holy family were perfectly chaste due to Christ not their natural desires. When we marry at the alter we as sinful imperfect beings are directly agreeing to payment of the marriage debt when reasonably asked to do so.
My understanding is the woman is sinning when she says no, and also tempting the man into sin and lust. She must submit to her husband, it is her wifely duty. I skipped through the video, to me it is very modernistic and feminist in approach.
Actually, the requestor of the martial debt is venially sinning in requesting the marital debt be fulfilled. Read St. Alphonsus and St. Augustine.
The request of fulfilling the marital debt is always at least an imperfection according to St. Alphonsus, St. Augustine, and so on..
In fact, are you suggesting that St. Cecilia sinned when she refused consummation to her pagan husband Valerius, which culminated in his conversion and their Josephite Marriage?
Suppose St. Joseph requested the consummation. Would the Blessed Virgin have sinned in her denial of the request?
Thank you for your comment! If you'd be open to it, here are some videos that address the topic: ua-cam.com/video/57TBg0-C4rM/v-deo.html
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@@St.DemetriostheMyrrhGusher what Augustine says about every sexual act necessarily involving concupiscence/sin is not official Church teaching.
@@St.DemetriostheMyrrhGusher you are citing very clearly exceptional examples to extrapolate sexless marriages as a norm, or at least something praiseworthy.
Augustine’s comments on every sexual act involving some sort of concupiscence is not official Church teaching. He’s a great guy, but he can be wrong some times.
And if you think protection from concupiscence is the only purpose for sex other than procreation, that is a very dim view of what sex is. The Song of Songs would have no spiritual value if that’s all that sex was. Even Christ saying “This is my body given up for you,” would lose so much of its spousal significance, if all sex was is to help people not sin. You make it sound like a necessary evil.
@thankyou62 Are you suggesting that a virginal marriage is not greater than consummated marriage?
That is heresy and is anathema.
Further, I am going to truth the theological opinions of St. Thomas, St. Alphonsus, and St. Augustine, and the lives and virtues of thousands of Saints before I trust the opinion of sex-addicted modernists, who refuse to grow in the virtue that Christ offers us through the conference of the Sacrament of Marriage.
The purpose of the rendering of the marital debt is to alleviate concupisense in the requestor of the debt that is agreed upon by almost every Saint who taught moral law.
This beta pastor did what most beta counselors do in churches: gaslight the man into guilt for zeggsually desiring his legitimate wife, and victimizing the woman for switching off her zeggsual experiences with her hubby after (after!) having children, without helping and leading her into regaining her zeggsuality.
This is so prevalent that I could predict how the video was going to end since the second minute.
Sad.
Hello @aramisy.cajigas744 ! Thank you for your honest comment! If you'd be open to it, here are some videos that provide more nuance into the topic: ua-cam.com/video/57TBg0-C4rM/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/P5EngzZ1-xQ/v-deo.htmlsi=yP51kLBccGJg1xJz