How Often Should Spouses ... w/ Cameron Fradd
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- Опубліковано 27 бер 2023
- 📺 Full Episode: • Dating, Marriage, and ...
Matt and Cameron give a Marriage advice on how often the Marital embrace is appropriate?
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I recall a joke told by a priest on this subject. A doctor was giving a presentation about marital relations, and expressed his opinion that for optimum mental and physical health a couple should have intercourse five times a fortnight. He pointed to a very fit-looking young man who was sitting in the front row and who was exuding cheerfulness, and said: "Clearly this young fellow is following this pattern." "Not at all," replied the young man, "My wife and I perform the conjugal act once a year." "But that is impossible," protested the doctor, "You look so happy." "Once a year, " insisted the young man, "and tonight's the night!"
LOL!
He said that during his homily? Sorry but that is incredibly distasteful
@@alqoshgirl It was said during a conference not a homily.
@@alqoshgirl found the fun person
@@alqoshgirl Wait until you read the bible then!
Really "gross" stuff in there!
Both my wife and I lost our previous spouses to cancer... We were lucky enough to meet and get that second chance. So let me say this, if you truly love each other you should express that in as many ways as you can whenever you get or make an opportunity... That other person won't be there forever or maybe not even 1 more day...
❤❤❤❤❤
My wife needs to watch this. She thinks it’s 2 times a year 😢.
You need to talk to her. I can kind of relate. My husband has been the only man in my life. I married at 20 and he was 31. I had no idea how often was "normal" and was embarrased to ask.
Have you taken over her tasks for a night and told her to take a bath and relax ever?
@@LenaBelleMusic Yes, I take care of a lot of things. My wife has never done grocery shopping nor cleaned the entire house before.
Most men live depressing sexless and loveless lives. But you have to look to yourself in the mirror and think, if I was a women would I want to sleep with myself ? You need to stop pretending you can get the love of your wife or any woman by just being kind. Kidness doesn’t make you that much more attractive, you need to be visually pleasing.
@@icarojose6316 would you say the same thing if the sexes were reversed ?
blame the victim
the whole point of marriage is children and you can't make them without sex
it's a requirement so she shouldn't have gotten married in the first place.
also you suggest to him to hit the gym is that what you mean ? if yes then that is good advice
Would definitely like to hear a deeper conversation on this topic as it doesn’t seem like this is a common issue to talk about.
The Bishop Fulton Sheen channel has a talk on this:
ua-cam.com/video/cDuFhlJrNSs/v-deo.html
Yes I would love more content with this
I recall a priest once say that he encountered a couple who were having marital problems...he recommended they should spend time but importantly, engage in the marital act. This changed the whole relationship and saved their marriage. The marriage covenant is actually not sealed until the conjugal act it performed...that is how important it is to the relationship. I believe the reason Paul gives a maximum time before the act is performed is that sometimes life gets busy, and one spouse may not realise they are denying the other the very act that will bring life back into their marriage.
As you get older…..
The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. 😂
For real! Hahaha
Immediately after having a baby would be a time for a husband to be merciful. Might be good to remind husbands that having a baby can be extremely painful and a demanding husband a week after a baby is born is a good way to wreck a marriage and also turn your wife into someone that cringes every time you approach her.
Uh, it's not physically safe for a woman to have sex that soon after birthing due to the risk of infection, and Aquinas clearly states that a man (or woman) sins gravely if (s)he demands the marital debt at the risk of his (or her) spouse's life. A woman in that situation absolutely has the right to refuse intercourse without fear of being morally compromised.
@@anzot6903 yes, this! Some men are very uneducated about this reality and think their wife is just "being mean". Other men need to make it clear that, even as a husband, their will be times when sex is off the table. Husbands need to exercise some discipline. It's not an excuse for a man to go out and cheat or to start watching porn or whatever else. He can learn to suffer a little alongside his wife and that is a GOOD THING. But a wife may not be able to tell this to a husband if it's the first time he's hearing it. He might just think she's making it up. 6 weeks after childbirth can feel really long for some men. Other men saying it is helpful.
@@raedorin979 I mean, most discharge papers from a hospital mandate pelvic rest for six weeks.
So well done
Did not realize till half way thru they were a couple
They were so openly honest about themselves without betraying their marriage
Well Done
You guys are blessed. You both have worked it out. Marriage is a liberation from the way lust can bind us. Thank you for your openness. Sadly not all couples have got to this wonderful place of mutual respect and sacrifice.
You should totally go more deeply into this issue in a longform conversation sometime. There’s not a ton of Catholic guidance out there on the topic; most secular marriage advice on this boils down to “get a divorce.”
Having worked with married couples in a prayer group and elsewhere, I've been told that some men really struggle with wives who will refuse intimacy for months or years at a time (I'm sure it goes the other way around, too, but still).
Some of those men then really struggle in the area of celibacy, so it might be a good topic for your Victory channel! As a man who has been blessed with a strong marriage, it’s really sad to hear this issue often and it’s hard to really give advice about. Thank you for all your work! As atheists who became Catholic after marriage, my wife and I enjoyed the full episode this clip was from-it was really interesting to hear what discerning marriage is like from a religious perspective we didn’t have back then.
There is guidance. 'Only if you are trying for a baby.' That is the catholic rule whatever way you want to twist it.
@@kevinkelly2162 the 50's called, they want their stereotype back.
To address the parenthetical, women whose husbands refuse are in a worse situation than men because women generally aren't as able (innately or trained by experience) to deal with rejection and moreover because it's rare they're alone in their suffering.
@@kevinkelly2162 That’s not the Catholic rule; you’re the one twisting things here. Catholics teach that the marital act must be open to life (as in not using contraception or otherwise frustrating things), not that couples must actively try for babies.
@@bigfootapologetics Same difference.
Great job tackling this one guys!!
Thank you for talking about this!
Thank you for posting. I needed to hear advice
This hit my wife and I like a truck! Thanks for posting. Please post more about this topic! 🙏
Thanks for the important topic!
Just found this page… I have super sensitive hearing and I just wanted to say, Matt, you have a very agreeable and pleasant voice to listen to!
My spouse and I have been married for a year and a half and have been given a big cross in this area. We lost our first child at 18 weeks due to an incompetent cervix and going forward I will need a stitch in my cervix at 12 weeks gestation and refrain from sex while it's there. We will have to abstain for at least 6 months, possibly 9 (when you add in 1st trimester nausea and recovery from labor) and that is all God willing if I can carry a baby full term which is obviously the hope. We will definitely need to find other ways to be intimate during that time, but God will give the grace and has already been working in and through my husband's heart to prepare him. I just wanted to share so that everyone out there knows that God does give crosses in this area, but not without the grace. I pray all of your marriages are blessed and can be a beacon of God's trinitarian love, in good times and in bad. ... And in bed🙃
Thank you for this, the bedroom is a very heavy cross for me. I will pray for two and baby
I'm sorry you and your husband have this to bear. I have 10 children and have had 4 miscarriages. One thing I have learned to do, is to offer my sacrifice in this area as reparation for the sins of the flesh committed in my youth. I have had many issues which ended in hysterectomy. So through the years,I get what your saying about the many months of celibacy.
Just hold on to Jesus and pray for your husband. Keep talking about your frustrations and I promise God will bless your sacrifice 10 fold!
@@rachelrogers7111 Thank you :) The emotions are like a rollercoaster: sometimes it really bothers me, sometimes it's no biggie. God bless you on your large family, that's so wonderful!
I’m glad you openly shared your situation. My husband and had the same experience after my 2nd child was born at 32 weeks. Next four pregnancy’s each required a cerclage. I will be praying for you. Be encouraged that you can be intimate other ways and make your husband feel loved. Also, I’m guessing, if it goes like mine did, you’ll have a small window after they remove the cerclage where you’re “back in business” before labor. Even may help to induce. I know you’ll feel awkward and huge but it’s best to rip the band aid off before you have the 6 week postpartum limitations. 😉 basically saying, we had to make the best of the 5 months that we could. God will give you grace. Please message if you have any questions. Sometimes I know it’s hard to find others in the same situations.
Thats for sharing. I have to have C sections so we also choose to abstain longer for the healing process and also because I might not be able to have that many children due to the danger of complications. Def an act of trusting in God and true self sacrifice for me and my husband. ❤
Great Show.
I feel for the folks who need to abstain for months. It makes weeks seem short. At the same time, I hate cyclical weeks of NFP abstention. Abstinence is so frustrating!
Love Cameron's jokes! So perfect
This was a very well done video ! I wish I had it available 30 years ago ! It would have helped me and my late wife a lot ✝📿☦
I absolutely love that you guys are doing this! We need to talk more about this. Thank you!
This was beautiful ❤
Excelente video! God bless your marriage always!
The weekly date night is a good goal. I don’t know how realistic it always is, but it’s a good goal. We try to not go more than two weeks. Sometimes we mis that mark. Sometimes we don’t.
My buddies at work are good, responsible, faithful guys whose wives neglect and bully them constantly. They take home paycheques and help their families with all they can and the wives complain and whine about just about everything. This toxic manhood stuff is because of a few bad characters.
Very funny.
@@kevinkelly2162 What part was funny?
So sad how people treated bother like objects of contempt. Really wrong
@@brittoncain5090it is not at all funny This stuff is tearing poor people apart.
An ungrateful wife is as damaging as a negligent husband.
You guys are a great couple!
Respectful self emptying in mutual understanding and intimate giving in loving embrace.
Coercing someone with psychological pressure into sex who doesn’t want to have sex is revolting. I have been there. It is not love, it is using the person you claim to love as an object
To borrow from C.S. Lewis: Satan may use pleasure as a temptation, but pleasure is God’s creation, not Satan’s.
I have heard far too many Catholics (and for the record I’m not Catholic) feel almost guilty about the enjoyment of marital relations, when the truth is that it is in marital relations that God not only allows but also promotes the pleasure of unity. Marital relations is not ONLY about pleasure, but neither should it be viewed as merely utilitarian either.
The end of marriage is chastity.
It is not. Chastity is important in every stage of life.@@St.DemetriostheMyrrhGusher
@Jenny-fl5cn I agree. When I say the end, I mean teleologically, the purpose of marriage is for spouses to assist each other in the way of perfection, The Way of Our Lord. The rendering of the debt, which is a legitimate means for the relief of concupisense, is always at least an imperfection. However, the rendering of the debt, through the sacrament of marriage, offers a grace to the spouses to further them into the chaste life.
There is only one path to heaven. It is in Jesus Christ, that it is an imitation of His Merits through His grace, chastity, obedience, and poverty.
Honestly. I subscribed for your voice. lol. and cuz you sound/look reformed.
The best part is always the "Mug not made in China" thing. lol
Would love if you could do an episode or have a conversation about natural family planning. It’s important to include when talking about sex.
"Come together" seems to be the operative phrase in that chapter.
It's a shame, some marriages are loveless in the sense that one member may be constantly doing what they want, and when alcohol is involved, their not the person you married. To try to follow the gospel and not be able to communicate it's difficult.
I always say: do it while you can, when you can, where you can, you never know what tomorrow holds.
Fr. Peter Heers at Orthodox Ethos had a video on this topic, but it got switched to Private so I can’t watch it again. I’ll see if I can get a link to it somewhere else.
Your wife is awesome, she needs to be on more.
Pornography has set an unrealistic and unhealthy standard for sex. Expecting your wife to be a horndog and always at the ready is not honoring to her. It's treating her like a prostitute.
My wife and I go through times when we're getting it in every day. We also go through times when it's only once or twice a week. We have jobs and kids, so sometimes sex just isn't on the agenda.
I have had to learn to respect her boundaries on this issue and it's made a big difference. Pouting will only make her want it less. If you have a healthy social life and good hobbies, sex becomes an added bonus to a well-rounded life rather than the end all, be all.
Dude once or twice a week is still pretty good. I think if you're working full time and taking care of kids thats pretty reasonable. I'm not married yet but i have heard stories of married guys who havent gotten it in months. Of course you never know what happens behind closed doors.
One girl I courted we discussed sexual frequency. She told me that women at her church lose interest in sex because their husbands are selfish lovers.
My married male cousin said that the only guys he knows in sexless marriages treat their wives like a piece of meat. So i took his advice to heart as well.
@@chadpilled7913 hahahahahhaha not even married but talked to a couple guys.
Hahahahhahahaha
After two a days for a few years it's OK to back off to once every other day..
Maybe. 😊
"only once or twice a week"
Could you do a section on the fear of infertility / trying to get pregnant? Realizing i can find barely any info on this.
You mean avoiding sex out of a fear you won't get pregnant.
@@michaelmicek no i mean for married couples who struggle to conceive or have had a miscarriage, a pressure can build over if they will be able to have a baby, and this can cause tension between husband and wife over how much they have sex
It depends on the couples understanding, they love each other, they should have a good communication
I think one key thing to remember is that sex sits at the crossroads of what marriage is. It's not everything marriage is, but it's the nexus, it's where everything comes together. It bears a lot of weight for the other pillars that make up the marriage. If marriage were a wheel, it would be the axle. If you become willing, as a man, to give up this thing that holds up some many of the spokes that support your relationship, or if you're willing to look elsewhere, that wheel is going to have problems. As a woman, if you try to remove or neglect this axle or fail to allow it into your circle of relational pillars, you're willingly pulling the rug out from under the very thing you porport to care about. Maybe men focus more on the axle, maybe women focus more on the spikes. But both need each other. The axles isn't the whole wheel. And the wheel doesn't work correctly without the axle. Learning to live with and accept and invest in the whole wheel and balancing our differing interests in a single functional machine is what the marriage relationship is. Men, if you don't hold up the pillars of the relationship with your relational contribution, don't expect that wheel to go anywhere, and don't expect your axle to be welcome. Women, if you won't let the man stick his axle into your wheel, he won't be able to transfer his masculine energy into the rest of the relational wheel. If either partner isn't willing to accept this, then they don't actually want to be married. They just want their own interests served. That's not marriage. That's mastubatory.
How often is a less easy question. I think you need to learn a lot about yourself and about your spouse before you can easily answer that. And it's not necessarily a single answer. There might be a "surviving but declining" standard, a "maintenance" standard, and an "investing and growing" standard. And those can be unique to each couple. It took me a while to understand my own physical and hormonal cycle. Women seem to go up and down and up and down in patterns. Day to day can be very different. And each sexual experience can be very different. There's a big variety of what sex can be like each time for a women. It's a continuum. And how you achieve stimulation can come in many forms from many directions.
For men, sex is much more consistent as an experience. The male orgasm is much more predictable and formulaic in structure and in how it has to be provoked. Male hormones fall off after sex and then just gradually build back up in a linear manner until they get knocked down again, then build back up until knocked down, repeat, repeat. Female sexuality also varies a lot more across a lifetime, while male sex drive is much, much more consistent (if not quite uniform).
It's a big problem to have two such sexually differing creatures be partnered. If you're not willing to engage with that difficulty and compromise, then either you're not ready for marriage or you're allowing yourself to walk I to some really tough territory with blinded eyes, not knowing what you'll run into.
Anyway, the obvious answer is two times a week, or eight times a month (unless you're pretty young or newly married, in which case the answer is as often as possible or necessary) for at least the first few decades. No, I'm joking, people are too variable to put a hard number on anything without knowing the people. But I think it's a good idea to be prepared to have sex a couple times a week if you want a healthy habit and don't want to risk getting into bad habits.
I would highly recommend also reading St. John Chrysostom’s “On Marriage and Family Life.” Form the Introduction:
St. John is very far from the Augustinian view in which sexual pleasure is basically sinful but tolerated for the sake of procreation. Here the union of husband and wife is recognized as good in its own right. p.20
And again
Marriage, like monasticism, is a sign of God’s Kingdom, because it begins to restore the unity of mankind (and the cosmos as a whole) which has been broken by sin. Thus marriage is both a great mystery in itself and represents a greater mystery, the unity of redeemed mankind in Christ. p.10
For St John, the sexual relations of a husband and wife is first and foremost an expression of communion and love.
I love how Cameron is so funny. You two are great together.
Man! The wife and I had sex 20 out of the last 31 days. We have been together for 15 years and we are just getting started. It isn't easy with 4 kids and us both working full time jobs but we find the time. You got to be spontaneous but you also have to be thoughtful and willing to work to even get to that point.
I've heard it said many times on various programmes about marriage that the couple should go out for dinner once a week to have time together. This is where the husband goes out to work ,as most do.
What is the answer when the husband's studio is in the house and the couple are in each other's company all day ?
I think the same still applies, it's important to have intentional time together and make space for meaningful conversations etc. You don't have to go out to do this, although it can help.
My husband mostly works from home, but that is work time, not meaningful time focused on our marriage. We don't go out together weekly, but after the kids go to bed 1x per week we will have dinner together in the house, or the yard, or on our porch just the two of us. I make something special or we get a quality take out. Sometimes it's just sharing wine and cheese, or a dessert. We don't have to pay for a babysitter, it's cheaper and it's intentional! 😊
@cameronfradd your sweater is such a beautiful Marian blue!!
Once every Decade - Ten times a day
the right answer is somewhere in there.... IF its 10 times a week for a year and then once a year maybe... there is a problem
yes people refer to the other in a derogatory manner
All things in good measure. This is probably the biggest compromise since our creation. The two becoming one is not going to be perfect especially taking into consideration our brokenness. Communicate! I've failed terribly at communicating so I'm very aware it can be extremely difficult
Men are initiators, women respond 100 fold. Initiate immaturity, recieve toxicity or hostility. When a man is Christ like the woman is outrageously attracted and the physical relationship will also return 100 fold, making the question posed on this post moot.
I can see my girlfriend’s and I relationship reflected in your marriage. It’s awesome to see that. God be with you… one flesh.
Answer Everyday. At least once week the very least.
I think we also need to discuss the elephant in the room which is that men often have a stronger sex drive than women, particularly young men. I have been married for over 15 yrs and can attest that my husband is in the mood almost any time, but the same cannot be said of the average woman. This is something couples need to talk about with each other. Women need to consider this: wives do all manner of things for their family when they aren't feeling energetic, but for some reason we think its ok to make excuses for long periods without sex. Women need to realize that sex is a necessary part of the relationship and something your husband really values. Additionally, men need to make it a priority to try to make sure that their wife is having fun during the experience and that it isn't solely about their own self-gratification. Women are generally more interested in sex when they think it's about the both of them, and not just about pleasuring one person.
This. Many women would be more willing to engage in sex if it didn’t feel like the husband was just looking for self gratification.
@@fujikokunI think that starts with the woman herself, actually. The majority of men of general good will actually find more pleasure in sex when their spouse is also pleased, which is why a significant number of women admit to "faking it". Being honest about what is actually pleasing to them (eg. Can we kiss more first? I am really honored when you do X, but Y makes me feel used.) can actually create the open communication necessary for enjoyable and intimate relations rather than another chore to accomplish. It also honors their husbands by giving the husband the opportunity to truly serve his wife in a concrete way by acknowledging and accommodating her desires. But men aren't mind readers. They need to be told how to love their spouse, both in the bed and out of it - the vast majority will follow through (perhaps imperfectly) once they receive instructions.
YES! More of this! Imagine watching this with the wife and casually nodding along! #perfect #nailed_it
Authority may have a different interpretation for a modern without classical sensibilities. Just something to keep in mind, it might be calling the other to give it up for example, not being like a caveman and dragging them back to your cave (not that there's anything wrong with that - necessarily).
we often speak of lust in a negative way but for this moment think of lack of "last" for the loved one - the spouse. people feel resentment because their "sexual needs" are not fulfilled. but think of the other person in this relationship when he or she doesn't feel the same and she or he make herself or herself "do it" it's like allowing to be "raped" or at least "used" and when we speak of sacrificing in the name of love we think in the first place of sacrificing the desire but do we also consider a sacrifice having an intercourse just to fulfill spouses "needs" ..?
Chastity in a relationship opens up infinite possibilities to loving.
Hence where headaches became so popular.
EVERY 12 hours. Preferably @ 6pm AND 6am.
I agree with your wife. Well said.
I would love Cameron if expanded on intimacy during pregnancy and keeping a holy marriage. I am struggling to find balance.
If you're healthy and doc okays it, pregnant sex is perfectly fine and can even help bring on contractions when that kid is trying to stay a week longer than you want.
You’re penis isn’t big enough to touch the child, don’t worry about that.
That passage from Corinthians can also be noted by us men who are tempted by porn: you don't get to use porrn as an excuse to avoid intimacy or as "an alternative" (it's not!) to the intimacy that your wife is not giving right at this moment.
I like the first sentence in Matthew Kelly‘s book ‘The Seven Levels of Intimacy:’ “Intimacy is not sexual.” I liked your term “marital embrace“ better than calling sex intimacy. I think it is helpful to save the term “intimacy” for emotional intimacy as the original definition states. I think there is a big tendency for our culture to substitute sex for love and I think keeping the terminology literal is helpful. I think intimate relationships help us get closer to the truth and therefore to God. Sex binds us to our spouse and God. I want to have intimate friendships and relationships with colleagues- not sex
Sex is like money, it’s not the be all and end all but gosh it really helps and in marriage it definitely helps
58m 55f get it on 5 times a week. both love it
It's interesting that she hears those things but he does not that is simply due to the fact that men do not communicate in the same way women do especially to more casual friends men would be more likely to say that only to close friends..........mostly again everyone is different, and actually for younger people or thos e not married as long hearing some of the things other women say can be damaging to them and their marriages.
if sex gets turned off by one of the spouses for a prolonged period of time, unless its a medical issue. something is very wrong. if your older it might be difficult.
3:28 As a single man, I can’t imagine a dude rejecting his wife’s advances.
Generally most men would be disinterested due to extreme physical exhaustion, emotional distress, or something like that.
Could be chronic illness, feeling sick, in pain, hormonal imbalance, low libido, erection issues, genuine exhaustion or tiredness, etc. Men go through their own lows and struggles as well. I've personally desired sex for quite a while, I am single and still a virgin myself. It's been very hard, to control urges and lustful thoughts myself, things I've struggled with for some time.😢 But I'm still waiting.
When you work as hard as some of us the last thing we want to do is exert the energy we don't have having sex
I to think that is crazy however I do know men that have lost their libido and just don't want to do it anymore and their wives are really missing it. Sometimes midlife Z roles gets reversed
lol for real
Please do more videos on this topic. There is nothing out there like this for married Christians. How do we know we are not going “out of bounds” sexually as the Church sees it. I don’t want to offend God, so I want to know.
Fr. Ripperger has a video on marital chastity that was very clear and concise.
Fr. Ripperger has much to say on spiritual warfare that is helpful, but I would not take his advice on this.
The best book on this topic is Greg Popcak's book "Holy Sex!"
In a nutshell, each session must meet the objective criterion of the fertile act, but apart from that it is up to the couple to determine how to love each other.
@Reba, I highly recommend the book 'The Catholic Marriage Bed' by Ronald Conte. It is a compilation of what the Bible, Magisterium, and Doctor and Saints of the Church have to say on this topic. It also refutes some of the biggest lies perpetrated by those who twist the good St. Pope John Paul II's beautiful teachings of Theology of the Body for their own selfish whims. If you read his actual documents they are clear, and unfortunately what is being spread by many mainstream Catholics about what JPII taught, is false.
There's an awesome book called Holy Sex by Dr. Greg Popcak. Super helpful.
@@JP2GiannaT I have to disagree with you on that book. Acts that the book 'Holy Sex' claims are permissible, have been directly condemned by the Church. Each and every sexual act must be procreative, unitive, and marital - there is only one act which is all three, which is the natural marital embrace. Any other sexual acts, that are not natural, no matter the reason they are performed, are sinful. There is so much misinformation and misrepresentation of Church teaching on this topic. For the sake of your soul and the soul of your spouse, please research further. I highly recommend the book that I mentioned in the comment above, as it is a resource that cites numerous Church sources readily.
6 to 8 weeks after a c section 😭 😭 Having had a c section I cannot imagine
Not a Catholic and this is an honest question: since Catholics are against contraception, how does that work out? Only do it a certain week of the month?
Been putting NFP into practice for almost a year now! Yes, Catholics are against contraception. What we alternatively have is what we call Natural Family Planning (NFP) that, like you've already guessed, is used by tracking the woman's cycle to either avoid or achieve pregnancy. If a couple is trying to avoid pregnancy, then they will abstain (not have) sex until the woman is no longer fertile. Each woman is different, but generally speaking there are 1.5 weeks out of the month that is spent in the fertile window, whereas the other 2.5-3 are free to have sex during. (However part of that is also menstruation and some couples don't like to have sex then either. Typically that's another week, give or take.) So, very generally speaking, couples practicing NFP who are not trying to get pregnant will have about half a month/2-3 weeks to have sex. Totally up to the couple's discernment and the woman's cycle. If they are trying to conceive, then they will be having lots of sex during the fertile window!
Another note is that we do believe it's up to God as well when He desires to give us the gift of a child. I have a few friends who are open and haven't been avoiding during the fertile window, but have been married for months and haven't conceived yet. They're not specifically trying to achieve, but they are open to whatever God may wish to do. Some couples get pregnant right away when having sex during the fertile window, and some don't. So even having sex during the fertile window -although likely- isn't a guarantee at getting pregnant either.
I often get asked how is NFP different from contraception, and the answer is that we are in no way changing/prohibiting the woman's natural bodily function using NFP or completely withholding the man's fertility. With contraception it's either a pill, an insert, a shot, etc. for women, or a condom, etc., for men. Both are purposefully restricting the potential for creating life, and that is what is seen as wrong with it. God is the one who should have that say, not us. It's a deliberate choice to take our fertility into our own hands by trying to force an outcome to our desires rather than God's. And it means that we are not fully giving of ourselves to our spouse (we are withholding our fertility). Tons more could be said, but on the surface this should sum it up!
I guess one last note would be that we should only be abstaining for serious reasons, which means that -again generally speaking- we should most always be open to receiving the gift of a new life. There are no set-in-stone laws about exactly what 'serious' means as a blanket statement for every couple, though there are suggestions, but the discernment for each couple is left up to each couple.
An example could young adults get married during college and want to wait a year or two until they're done with school, can find stable jobs, and have some form of housing before they feel ready to have a child. Thinking of and properly preparing for a child is part of it as well. We aren't called to willy-nilly have 100 kids, we are called to be good stewards and parents of them. So refraining from sex in order to space out children is a good idea, refraining for mama's mental health if she's already got children, etc. can all be valid reasons. Each child needs to be prayed about before it's conceived and talked about between the spouses each month. (
It depends on the couple. Couples who have just reason to "space" pregnancies apart do so by targeting infertile periods like you suggest. Some simply engage in the marital act whenever they feel amorous. Others abstain completely for long periods of time.
Women can only get pregnant for about a week out of each cycle. So you’d have to abstain during that time period.
If you're trying to avoid pregnancy, it's more like there's two week stretches where you can, and then two week stretches where you can't.
Unless you're postpartum, then it's maybe once a month.
chocolate box
Jordan Peterson mentioned having to converse with his wife about this - he said twice a week is good - in normal times I’m sure. It this helped me have something to work with anyway!
When should spouses be together?...when they want to be. It's a mystery that must be worked out in fear and trembling!😂 It is unique to the couple how they navigate this. In me opinion however, if one is referring to Thomistic philosophy to warm things up, yer missin tha mark brah! Conversion is in the heart. I'm thinking every woman knows this, but us whiners have trouble putting in the work and sacrifice that can produce true communion.
Is it possible to lust for your spouse when your married? Or is that only possible when it's someone you're not married to?
I think not, but there might be an idea like lusting is about wanting to use the body, while disregarding the soul, which is the root of love.
It is very possible to lust for your spouse. It’s the difference between acting out of love or objectifying your spouse. There can be a thin line and it’s very easy to cross it.
Lust probably isn't the best category, because in the context of Matthew 5 it refers to looking at someone in order to desire them for sex when they're not your spouse.
That said, it's possible to objectify your spouse. So what's the difference? It's one of where your delight is. "Lovemaking", despite how it's been spoiled by culture, is actually the right idea. Is your desire to share in mutual joy, delight, and happiness with your spouse as an icon of Christ's marriage to the church, or are you essentially aimed at your own pleasure (e.g. you're using your spouse to get pleasure). In other words, is the activity of *bonding* with your spouse--being united to them in the delight of making love visible--your aim in sex, or would you be just as happy if you were in a hyper realistic simulation with your spouse still there? That's really the key difference. And as Christians, we want to make love with our spouse with a view to the sacramental dimension: our joy in each other is an icon of Christ's all surpassing joy in and with His Bride.
So this is a key reason why masturbation, even if to your spouse, is still wrong. Sex, done rightly, sends you out of your own privatized self and orients your joy towards oneness with and delight in another. It's the unitive bond of love, which is a reflection of God's triune life, that's aimed at in virtuous lovemaking--a delight in oneness with another, and a delight in their delight in that oneness.
I believe JP2 in ToB says that yes, it's possible to lust after one's spouse (but I don't have a reference and it might be another work).
Good advice for any couple, not just Catholics.
I’m curious to know how frequency is even an option when you are practicing NFP? I could die if I got pregnant again, and I only have about 5 days out the month I can use. (I have a really short post peak phase.) We really just can’t. Like I literally can only use 5 days at the end of my cycle. It’s so frustrating because I miss my husband so much and I wish we could be together more often.
Can you elaborate? I know many people who were in this situation but the problem was resolved by surgery removing certain parts, which thus made them sterile. Definitely consult a trustworthy priest before resorting to sterilization- it is a tricky area. I guess I’m just trying to figure out what aspect is life threatening but hasn’t already cause a serious need for surgery/medical procedures. Maybe your question could be better answered.
Although, be thankful you are able to identify those 5 days in your cycle. I’ve tried every method and only had one short period of about a year where I could identify it. And I’ve been practicing it for 14 years. My body just doesn’t fit into the norm. It’s really frustrating knowing I can never know for certain and also my health is compromised where it’s also problematic.
I'm not a theologian, so please don't take my words as official. But in the case where your life and well being are threatened, I think condoms or a vasectomy should be morally permissible. It does not harm an unborn baby and merely prevents pregnancy. The priority is to save your life, not anything else, so I don't see any moral problems here.
If pregnancy is off the table, then just have him get a vasectomy. We use other medical procedures to solve life threatening problems. A vasectomy simply keeps the sperm away from the eggs which is effectively the same thing that not having sex would do with regards to reproduction. I don't think NFP was intended to try to manage a life-threatening condition.
@@Mrs.Silversmith vasectomies (male sterilization) are not morally licit for Catholics. It would only possibly be justified for the woman who has the life threatening issue. Even then, a trusted priest and doctor should be consulted.
@@Mrs.Silversmith also, I have a neighbor whose husband had a vasectomy. They were angry because his sperm count was higher after the procedure. It’s definitely not a guaranteed thing anyway.
Whenever a rare person does share their idea of normal frequency, I always feel shocked at the information. I suppose others would be shocked if I were to share. Yet, we all have healthy marriages with no serious habitual sins in this area from my close group of friends, from what I know. Which goes to show the wide range of “healthy” and “normal.” Why do we compare ourselves in this area? Because our culture places so much importance on it? Know what others do makes you doubt yourself, even when you’re happy and satisfied. It’s strange.
I think this has become a concern because of selfishness (men) and fear (women). It’s entirely possible for a man to (let’s say) enjoy it without his wife being able to (let’s say) get there too; this i call selfishness on the part of the man. It’s also true that our culture is doing its absolute best to make women terrified of their fertility, as though it is nothing but pain and burdens and disease and parasite. If men were more generous, i think women would be less afraid; what you called “comforted” before seems strikingly true
Good point. I think Church teaching is also too male-centric. If you think about it, it's mandatory for a man for a man to "conclude" while intimate with his wife. That "conclusion" cannot intentionally be reached in any other setting, other than with his wife. There are no Church rules about "comforting" the woman or meeting her needs. All the technicalities are about making a woman the receptacle for the man's stuff. It would be helpful if the Church shifted towards a more unitive approach with sex rather than hammering away at just the procreative. Sex is more than just reproduction.
@@AntonAchondoa Definitely agree!! I honestly think just treating most things universally or with both men and women in mind would help both men and men much more, in regards to subjects about sex, pleasure, lust, pornography consumption, etc.
It doesn't help that things like lust, sexual urges, desires, temptation, pornography consumption is overwhelmingly treated as a "male only issue" and women who deal with it all the listed are sort of cast aside, not really given much help or guidance, and may feel abnormal and alone since it's male-centric and a men's issue. Almost like it's uncomfortable to discuss, is taboo, or a stigma attached to it for women. I haven't been married yet, I am still single and a virgin at 26, was born and raised Catholic, but still I have admittedly deeply struggled with lustful thoughts, sexual urges and desires, and pornography consumption for some years. Which I am not proud of at all.😢 I do feel alone struggling with all of this being a woman, but I'm sure there are many other virgin religious women who are in the same boat, may just be afraid to talk about it.
Overwhelmingly it's all about a man's sexuality, lust, and pleasure:
Women must dress modestly more to protect the men's eyes from lust and his sexual nature/urges, Women need to be pure & virgin if not they are whores meanwhile men can be promiscuous and be seen as high-value and strong, Women need to give their husbands sex all the time to fulfil his daily sexual needs and desires since it's his biology and nature, Only men overwhelmingly struggle with porn due to his sexual nature and temptations, Only men are more visual and more sexual and have needs and wants, Only men can express their sexuality freely and more so than women (with little stigma attached to it), women must suppress their's or else been seen as a whore, degenerate, deemed used goods and damaged.
Now, I do definitely agree with maintaining modesty, ideally waiting until marriage for sex, sustaining sex life in marriage, and avoiding porn and promiscuity, of course! And do know men tend to struggle with porn & lust more so, yes. But you can sort of see how it's been about the men, and very little about the women.😅
Meanwhile I'm a woman who struggles with porn and lust and urges😢😞, you can imagine how I feel: very abnormal and very alone. I do desire sex, love and intimacy with another man, but know I should wait. Dating is horrendous as well nowadays, ugh :( . It's very hard, in the midst of singleness and waiting. I do feel for all the men and women struggling to date, find a good man or woman, desire sex, love, and intimacy, trying to control urges and thoughts, trying to overcome porn addiction. It's so difficult tbh.😢 I know I'm a sinful woman, I'm no better. I'm still trying to improve and overcome always!
@@_chemicalbeat_ Thanks for sharing your story, I wish you peace and strength as you strive to overcome your weaknesses.
Rest assured, sexual desires are totally natural. You just have to work on finding healthy ways to channel or express them. In my experience, I was mentally the unhealthiest when I allowed repression and paranoia to get the best of me. Ironically, the more you fear or are disgusted by your own sexuality, the worse and more distorted your thoughts become. When you embrace your own sexuality, the thoughts and desires are still there, but they become more manageable.
I hope the Church adopts an approach to sex more open to dialogue with people of diverse experiences. It's such a difficult situation when the teaching and preaching is done largely by a group of celibate men dealing with moral hypotheticals rather than real world experience.
Matt and Cameron's discussion is a good example of letting the laity discuss and develop Church teaching, but we need even more lay-person led discussions.
I'm sure you have many insights. Maybe you could blog about it sometime.
@@AntonAchondoa yeah, I've repressed my own sexuality for quite some time, feeling uncomfortable and abnormal about it, and I shouldn't be. :( It is definitely normal to desire sex and intimacy, and have urges. Some may struggle more than others, some less.
I've desired intimacy with another man for some time, I know my urges are natural and just something I've dealt with since I was a young teen, but also I'm sure it's just genuine loneliness as well. I haven't had a man approach me in years to be honest. I have dated one guy as a teen, he ultimately ended it. Even when I was in the relationship, I had deep lust and desires, but wanted to wait. I've watched porn since I was 14, I've had many sexual thoughts, I think about sex often, it's just so difficult tbh. :( I guess I've just had a high libido for years, it's a blessing and I'm grateful to have good libido, hormones, etc. not everyone does and has health struggle, but it's can also be a dang curse and struggle 😅😢.
And yes definitely agree about more laity discussing sexual matters. It can be hard discussions to have, uncomfortable and fearful, but talking about it lessens the fear, shame, or guilt one may fear. I know me being more honest with myself and admitting to my sins and talking about to more, has helped in some ways.
All yall need some Theology of the Body. Christopher West did a couple interviews on this channel, I'd recommend starting there.
I'm 42, wife is 39. We engage in some form of sexual relations 3-4 times per week on the high side, 1-2 on the low side. I feel good about it !! 😊
Yeah cuz we ain't dead yet!
Yall practicing NFP too?
@@Inthecity1939 whats NFP.?
@Jay-ku3ur Only having sex when your wife isn't ovulating so there's no chance/ a low chance of getting pregnant. With the frequency you stated, it seems like she would have a high chance of conceiving year round
@@Inthecity1939 Gotcha... our 4th child is 5 now. When we had her my wife had her tubes tied. Lucky us.! Cheers mate.!
My gosh. My husband suggesting i go take a bath while he takes over the kids!😂😂 wow. Do husband actually do that??? My husband won't even let me go to the doctor by myself. When i was pregnant last time i brought the kids to the appointments and brought crayons and paper. Even hiring a sitter isn't allowed! I like my husband but he's like "NOPE!" 😂😂
If you don’t touch your husband for months or years you can 100% guarantee he is thinking about other women, whether he ends up acting on it or not depends on the man.
If you have kids but still want to maintain testosterone levels 3 times a week is the optimum, of course that would gradually lead to more and more kids.
Testosterone levels are not affected by intercourse
@@thomasgronek6469 check the data and statistics. There's many factors that affect it, including frequency of intercourse.
@@skavihekkora5039 studies don't prove anything. Let me start here, do people who have higher testosterone have more sex or do people who have more sex have hiher testosterone. In short, IF there is a correlation, is that the causation (Not necessarily so), an what causes what ?which is the cause, which is the affect. When the study takes 5,000 twins, separates them at birth, locks them in a metabolic ward for life, feeds, exercises them, and ALL other things must be equal, TV time, the exact same recreation, and total routine, then maybe some observations could be made, but still, not a conclusion, only an observation
@@thomasgronek6469 practice gives you idea what observations appear to be true and correlating with your selfobservations. In the physical world we always operate on probabilities anyway I suppose.
My Husband and I decided to live like Joseph and Mary especially because of illnesses. After 36 years of marriage 😊
How often should spouses drink beer? Always.
Not to be disrespectful or inappropriate, but ,(IT) definitely happened after this interview 😅 😂
Your wife is so wonderful!
30 years plus with a six year stretch of no activity in counsel I find out she thinks sex is gross so here we are 17 months later i feel that during the time we were intimate twice or so a year. I ask myself if it was rape.
I'm so sorry to hear that. No, it wasn't rape. She consented to marriage on your wedding day, which includes everything that goes along with marriage (the bare minimum requirement for knowledge about marriage in order to give informed consent according to the Church is that marriage= sex). St. Paul says that a man gives over his body to his wife, and vice versa, and thus they must engage in the sexual act whenever asked reasonably to do so, even if they aren't particularly interested. That's not rape, that's consent given in a marriage contract and the contract being fulfilled. It's disheartening, I'm sure, for you that it was never more romantic or meaningful than that, but you shouldn't be concerned about having done violence to her.
If she hasn't explored why she thinks these things with a decent, non crazy therapist, she really needs to - such thoughts indicate a deep wound.
My wife is much older than me. She's made it clear that she's done with it all. I'm not. I'm struggling to learn to do without.
It's a big struggle when there is a history of pornography.
Why?
@@patmyles4776 because there is this expectation of being verbally disgusting and submissive to the point of pain
Praise God for permanent divorce/no reconciliation ever!!!!!!!!!And I thank God for giving me His Divine Peace/absolute closure @Pints with Aquinas
What if my wife says ‘no more kids’, but I want more (we have 5) - am I sinning if I pull out? Cant use NFP because she has an irregular period. I want an intimate relationship with my wife, but I want to respect her wishes too, and be a faithful Catholic, idk what to do. This is extremely hard. Am I really expected to not have sex ever again?
Offer it up man, it’s a cliche but it’s true and good opportunity to grow in a deeper relationship with God. You fulfilled your main responsibility of marriage which is to bear fruitful children and that’s a gift because I know some couples who wanted children and could never get any because of complications, etc. Respect her wishes and see it as God calling you to embrace a particular cross and you won’t feel the need for it anymore. (At least as strongly as you do now). There are so many men out there that live even better and more happy lives without sex. Anyways if Godwilling, He will allow you to experience the joy of sex again in the proper time and moment. Be patient! God Bless
@@jp2crew488 - Thank you, I am trying, but really struggling with this. 🙏🏻
Your wife is not God and yea having more children is more difficult but God knows these children before* He makes them in the womb. Playing God saying “no more” is wrong. I have seven, so far, I know how hard it is. My family is not close and I don’t have a lot of help. I have to drive kids to and from their catholic schools. But no more? How do you explain that to God, the giver of LIFE. Anyway, for irregular periods there are ovulation strips women can pee on to pinpoint when they’ve ovulated exactly.
What do you recommend for asexual people 😣 I suppose i would like to get married but I don't experience any form of sexuality. Who would want to marry somebody who feels nothing sexual for them (i'm a girl)
You might need to discuss it, for example with a spiritual director
@@amask99 how do I get one? I’m new to the faith 🥺
You probably arent asexual. a lot of emotionally healthy women dont experience sexual feelings without first developing a deep emotional attachment to a specific person.
It is our sex obsessed society that makes totally normal women like you feel like something is wrong. I would be very surprised if you fell in love and still didnt feel sexual feelings, unless there is abuse from your younger years you havent processed.
Talk to a good priest about this, and most importantly pray to the Lord for help and guidance and it will be given to you. Guard your chastity while courting! God bless you
Interedting
My husband and I have 8 kids (6 under 6) and my husband wants to be intimate twice a day on weekends and every night during the week. It’s really hard and I feel like he’s totally unreasonable, (I don’t get sick days and I only get 2-3 weeks after giving birth) but I have to do it because I know he needs it and it’s a sin to say no. It’s sooo tiring that sometimes I hope he gets prostate cancer or something that would prevent all of this sex that is demanded of me. Sorry to go off on a personal tangent, but I’ve never said that out loud before and had to get it out! :)
That's excessive. I think it's a sin he's so selfish.
I can only opine here as one not married yet but,
I'd think that while possibly excessive, you aren't doing yourself favors either by going to others online who will put down your husband. That may just help drive resentment in yourself and make the situation worse.
My understanding is that marriage was going to be hard and is supposed to be so. In your case it seems like communication is definitely having trouble. Perhaps asking your husband to help more with the children in some capacity as to help yourself be less tired? and make sure you get across just how tired you've been in that conversation.
I've always thought that often we get carried away wondering why things aren't fair or trying to always make them be that way but often that's just part of each person's cross.
Father pio was basically bullied by the church for a while (skeptical of him as a fraud), and in typical saint fashion didn't go around speaking ill of the church. But rather out of respect for the church and his oath he stayed silent and continued to do good in order to fulfill his duties to God and oaths to the church.
I hope you find a good way to either resolve this and find the best path forward.
I'm sorry but your husband is clearly a selfish, sex-obsessed pig. I urge you to pray the Rosary for his conversion. Demanding that much sex considering your circumstances is sinful in and of itself.
Even on your periods? Wow he needs to chill out. Lol
Episode #49 of Managing Your Fertility podcast might be a helpful thing for you to listen to. Sex is not a need. It’s not automatically a sin to say no.
It's an interesting question. You are supposed to enter into a union with another person where (i) you can only do something (sex) exclusively with him or her, (ii) if you break that exclusivity you will not only be sinning but in our modern culture you will also be at risk of losing your marriage, money, home and children, and (iii) the other person can withhold that from you and you don't have any recourse other than divorce (and possibly losing your marriage, money, home and children).
As a thought experiment, I like to describe this exact scenario, but instead of using sex I use emotional support as the thing at issue. Suppose a hypothetical man told his wife upon entering marriage that (i) she could only get emotional support from him and (ii) if she attempted to get emotional support from someone outside the marriage she'd not only be sinning but he'd dissolve the marriage and take their kids, home and a bunch of her money. Now further suppose that some period of time into the marriage he began totally withholding any type of emotional support from her, either because he didn't want to provide it or because he just didn't care. I think most of us would conclude the man was at least somewhat emotionally abusive. How is sex substantially different?
Because emotional support is necessary for a healthy life, loneliness is devastating for your health. You can get emotional support from anyone you love and people of all ages need it, including children. You can survive without sex, even if it isn't ideal. If you pay someone for emotional support, you have a therapist, but paying someone for sex is prostitution (and ignores their dignity, treating them as only a body and not as a human with the need to be loved in a healthy way). Sex is not just between bodies, it's between people who need to respect and love each other. And inside marriage, it's a situation of "I'll always be here for you, I'm not in this for me, I'm in this for us". Christians are supposed to submit to each other in marriage, so if one person doesn't want sex, the other should try to understand their feelings and needs as well. (For example, if having sex is a need, surely doing it in a healthy situation is also a need).
Physical intimacy is also necessary for a healthy life. In theory, you can 'survive' without emotional support and without physical intimacy but you will be miserable and unhealthy.
A good spouse will minimuze the amount of times they reject their spouse. Remember, rejection hurts emotionally. If rejected too often, it will create feelings of bitterness etc.
A spouse should not reject their other more than 10% of the time.
You are pretending like physical intimacy is some nice little 'extra'. It's not. It's fundamental. I hope you're not married yet. I'd pity your husband.
@@emily43210Physical intimacy and release is actually quite necessary. That's why inactive men still have nocturnal emissions because the body needs to take care of business when no partner is involved. While sex at its best is the highest form of intimacy, in the lowest biological sense, it is an urge that needs to be fulfilled just like going to the restroom.
It's an uncomfortable fact for Christians, but all the taboos and repressions have, with very little doubt, contributed to the sexual abuse problems in the clergy as well as the sexual dysfunction among Christian couples. Unhealthy attitudes toward sex damage psychosexual development.
Just to be clear, I'm not proposing that the woke, worldly approach to sex is correct. That's also harmful, but in the opposite direction. The sexual revolution was an overcorrection of the oppression and repression of the past.
@@ilikecommenting6849 honestly I don't know why women (most of the time it being women), reject their husbands when it comes to sex, perhaps it's imbalance of hormones, just genuine tiredness and exhaustion, health issues, etc. I'd want to have sex with my husband all the time and do lots of things lol. I have never been married, I have been single for quite some time, I am still a virgin at 26, but I've desired sex immensely for quite some time now.😅 I was born and raised Catholic, and even as a virgin, have still struggled deeply with lustful thoughts, sexual desires, urges, and even pornography consumption, which I am not proud of at all.😢 I know a lot of my desires and urges are natural and just how I've been since a young teen, but also due to just loneliness and wanting to be intimate with another man, but while married. And in the midst of singleness, waiting, wanting to be married, it has been very hard to control my thoughts, desires and urges.
I'm not sure if many other virgin religious women feel the same in the midst of singleness and waiting. Perhaps it's kinda taboo, or there's a stigma attached to it, and uncomfortable to talk about since only men are the sexual ones, which I get it. I used to be very afraid, ashamed, and guilty to talk about these types of things because men are the only sexual ones, but I need to be more honest with myself. I do sin with pornography, I do have lustful thoughts, and I do desire sex and intimacy with another man for many years, but know I should wait. I have struggled to even date. Dating is absolutely horrendous nowadays :( . But I know, no man is going to want a woman who consumes pornography, that's my own fault and struggle, which I am trying to beat. I feel for the men and women who are in a similar boat. Lonely, wanting to date and find a good man and women, desiring sex, love and intimacy, trying to control their desires and urges, trying to curb and overcome porn addiction. It's very, very hard.
@@ilikecommenting6849 Yes, I hope she isn't married. It sounds like she has the gift of celibacy. Trapping a man in marriage then refusing to satisfy his lustful desires is a form of sexual abuse and immorality.
As much as they want
Another challenge is to feel the connection when your spouse seems on a mission to pin point all your mistakes and shortcomings. Yet when they want to be intimate they get upset because you're not in the mood.
yes
Covenant relationship means you love your spouse more than yourself. Intimacy strengthens the covenant! Closer to Jesus means closer to your spouse.
Commenting bc thursday asked me to