My Thoughts On Sugar Wash For Distilling
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- Опубліковано 10 сер 2020
- What are the advantages of sugar washes? Are They Worth it?
I wont to talk through my thoughts on sugar washes.
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#Podcast #homebrew #distilling
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I just started in the hobby. I have been an all grain brewer for 10 years. So in the future I will be doing all grain mashes. For my first run I ran a sugar, because it is cheap. It was recommended by a friend who is already a home distiller. He said, "It's your first time running a still. You're going to mess something up. Don't mess up something nice." He was correct in that. I had several issues during the process and I learned a lot doing it. I am glad I didn't waste my grain and did a sugar wash. I have a half gallon of 190 proof neutral spirit now that is destined to be some 80 proof orange liqueur for margaritas.
Sugar washes are also useful for doing hybrid mashes: part grain/fruit, part sugar. Those hybrid mashes are great for getting the flavor of the grain/fruit but with the reliability of a sugar wash. Hybrid mashes are also useful for when the primary fermenting ingredient is in short supply or is expensive. I think, for example, that a sugar wash can help in making rum when molasses is not readily available in your area.
I tried to do an all grain with barley I malted myself, but the gravity fell short by a lot. like 1.015 (I recon it was my mill, which I made with my dad that afternoon and it wasn't very consistent in results). I topped it up with dry malt extract and sugar until I reached a decent gravity, fermented on the grain and it was actually surprisingly good! So I agree, using sugar to assist with a mash when you just don't get there with the necessary ingredients is a great option.
Agree on hybdrid mashes for sure.
I ferment it in 50 gallon drums. Let ot settle. Filter it and just use it to make hard sodas and lemonade.
That's what people do when they make a "sugar head" whisky out of corn.
Well, as I write my cornflakes whiskey is made just like that. Tried it before and I must say it makes a very nice white dog for sipping and it definitely gains flavor when aged on wood.
I'm a vodka fan so I've tried a variety of vodka recipes. Potatoes is something I guess every vodka fan must ultimately try, but to be honest, I don't think it is worth the trouble it takes to make it. The best I've found is using soft white winter wheat and sugar which I distill with a reflux or better yet a bubble plate column. It's a neutral spirit with just a hint of flavor from the wheat. Give it a try.
_Pops head up out of video editing software..._ Did somebody say inverted sugar?
Sugar wash was my first try at distilling. I still do it because its cheep, fast and isn't all that bad. But .... I did find through my own research that if you swap the bleached sugar with Demerara sugar or raw sugar cane then let the finished product soak in charred oak chunks for a while, it will taste similar to Appletons
What's an Appletons?
@@vtbn53 Jamaican Rum
I've always wanted to try making a sweet potato vodka
I have also
George Duncan is making some.
George from Barley and Hops brewing did that a few weeks ago!
What about a potato vodka. Any well made video you can recomend me. Thanks a lot
Made some a few years ago, from the field leftovers, turned out real good.
Yep! Stayin at home a lot more and your videos are going a long way to shorten my learning curve! Cheers
i love being true to tradition and very much enjoy thed mashing in proccess of cooking and converting grain. very satisfying lol
+1 on potato neutral, it is on my list. I just put down a birdwatchers, maybe potato next.
Sugar here 20kg for 20$ and bottle of vodka at store is almost 30$ per 0.750lit
i only keep the very middles of run, only hearts, only above 92% (usually 94-95%)
home made gives ZERO headache next day, make 180 batch using wine yeast. Wheat germ is very good, tpw is great too. don't cheap out on nutrients you dont want yeast to stress at all. give it time and you will have the best vodka
I'd be interested if you tried invert sugar as well. I used to invert sugar for beer, but I couldn't really taste the difference, except where I made darker kinds. It is a very good skill to learn though, especially for making bbq glazes or adding to liqueurs instead of sugar - in that case it definitely smooths things out.
Potato Ratio as I remember is 5 to 1! Either in kilos or lbs.
It takes about 5 kg of potatoes to equal 1 kg of table sugar.
Same goes for 5 lbs of potatoes equals 1 lbs of sugar.
So, If I normally do a 55 to 60 lbs sugar (45 gallons) in a 55 gallon fermenter.
Process would be: Buy 250 lbs of potatoes, peel, chop, mash, cook (steaming wand), cool, then hit with enzymes, cool again, pitch yeast.
Then the fun begins: Strain, rack, strip run, repeat three times. Then spirit reflux run.
Rite now it's way to damn hot out. Maybe in the late fall.
Cheers Jesse!
You can also use potatos raw ,but,it wil give you different taste because its raw
Love the video's. Always learn something new. Thanks Jesse.
I just did my first 3 sugar washes, then did a few generations of nutrigrain, now I am onto corn/barley with a bit of sugar to bring it up from 1065 to 1090, around 13% and super corn flavour. I am using 10Kg of cracked corn (farm quality), 3kg of malted barley, alpha/beta amylase, 3kg sugar and bakers dry yeast. Ferments out in 9 days.
I've been making sugar wash for a year now. Flavoured it to... Great results high strength...
Inverting a sugar is a very good idea - vodka is then smoother than from the regular sugar. Also, some guys suggested it ferments a little bit quicker. And it's pretty easy to do, mix water, sugar, add some citric acid to pH 4 and boil it for about 30 minutes.
I suggest 1kg:5l ratio of sugar and water and NOT using turbo yeasts - they work very fast, but produce some off flavours.
Cheers!
You can use turbo yeast,the trick is to have it in a cool room because its fast and make alot of heat and if its in a cool place it has almost no bad taste, and if you also Filter int and only stop destilling at 50% you wil have no bad taste.
Love watching your videos, so much knowledge to learn! I started with doing sugar washes and did them for a while then couldn’t help but make the jump to brandys and just did my first grain wash and don’t think I’ll ever go back now!!!
Lots of food for thought here. Now I know why I might want to proceed to all grains. Thanks Jesse.
I recently had the thought that sugar beets could be fun to try. Turns out sugar beet seeds are pretty hard to come by here because the farmers all get them through the sugar factories.
It would break my heart to make neutral out of a good all grain wash!
I'm literally doing that this weekend. Got a cheap bag of malt
@@bensoulsby86 all the power to you. I'm sure it will be a kickass vodka. I just much prefer whiskey
@@orbitalbreaky oh for sure, didn't mean anything like that. I just had a $20 sack off malt handy and am almost out of gin so saw the opportunity
Hey Jesse, I believe that taste/mouthfeel sensation you described is what the Japanese call Kokumi. Malted barley has got it in droves. For me, I feel that taste/mouthfeel hit the back corners of my tongue.
Yes, please do the potatoes
So.
Much.
Work.
So little reward
What about potato starch.
How would that work?
You are spot on about all grain vs imitating with easier shortcuts like adding sugar. I'm finding that out now, Although I've been well aware of it through my 20 year beer making journey that ther is nothing that beats all grain. You may get close with extracts and steeps and even kits but they all fall a bit short of the all grain and I couldn't, and still can't. put my finger on that difference or describe it............... it's just different.
I've done milk whey from a cheese maker and sugar wash and it turned out quite well
I like making fruit wines and I sometimes distill them.
If I am making something just to distill I make sugar wash, but what I have started doing is placing some juniper berries or cinnamon at the top of my collom so the alcohol picks up some of the flavour from them, still working on how much to use to get the falour right for me :)
Great videos keep up the good work. Have you ever added rye lme to a sugar wash?
You make an excellent point about time. I am a team lead in a production environment and do a decent amount of coaching. When you are teaching a fresh employee a new skill/process it is best to target stations with a short cycle time. This means that you get them trained in on a task that is short enough to do many times a day. This repetition is important and leads to the ability to make iterative and incremental improvements while the last cycle is fresh in thier mind.
Agree with you 100% about the quality of the distillate using a sugar washes. They're ok off you want something cheap. I have filtered them to get as close as a neutral taste, but still cannot get the quality that grain provides. If you want great vodka, try a sweet potato recipe. 25# will only yield ~8% potential ABV in a 5 gallon batch, but the end result is amazing. They self convert their starch to fermentable sugars.
Started with a sugar wash, but now my favorite is birdwatchers thanks to you,do it for convenience
.
I was the same till i did a kale wash
Sugar wash,good to start off..Looking forward to my first all grain session
Sweet potato has been one of my number one movers! I never would have thought it would be that great originally.
Hi at about 2.35 in the video you mentioned three sugar washes bird watchers, tsffv, but I can't make out the 3rd on could someone please tell me the name of the 3rd one thanks
I guess I do hybrid wash . Not sure what you would call it . I convert starch in grains and add a little sugar to reach my target gravity . less grain to mess with and so far that's been working out well .
I know of the term "sugarhead" but I think its more applied to adding grain as an adjunct in the ferment for flavour, not mashing it to extract sugars too.
In brewing this is called mini mash. Where you partially mash and then supplement with liquid malt extract (LME) or dry malt extract (DME). If you want to keep the character of the grain you may look into using DME or LME as your sugar supplement in your wash.
@@FoolOfATuque I will have to give this a try . Thanks for the advice .
@@dylanluvzcolorado4369 yeah, experiment with it and refine your process. I've been being for 10 years and it's a lot of fun. Just starting to get into distilling now so I will be trying different things and experimenting there too. Both these hobbies are awesome
@@FoolOfATuque I started this spring and right now experimenting with molasses. Yummy rummy lol
Recommend silver queen corn for whiskey, part of my uncle wheeler recipe. He had been passed on 45years but his products were very high dollar
I like the concentrated juice washes..easy and tasty...
Question. Instead of corn can one use cornstarch and skip the whole corn breakdown part?
The person who made my still did not put a thermometer at the top or on the kettle. Can I drill a small hole at the bottle of the column and another one at the top and insert a cooking thermometer, sealing it with silicon glue?
Thanks again, Jess!
I was just given a 50pound... err. 22.68kg bucket of invert sugar. Gonna try a few different things with it. I'll let ya know how it works out! Once again! Thank you!!
Does your vodka have an apple smell and taste?
Any chance you could make a video on your views on filtering with activated charcoal?
Do you charcoal filter? There seems to be a bit of controversy around it in the distilling world. Would be great to hear your 2cents!
Thanks very much for all your videos, can i ask that when you mention an acronym you say the long meaning at least once please?
Always do a sugar wash, cheap, little methanol, for 94-96% ABV, (Reflux) use gin baskets for my gin flavourings or char up some Jack 'D' chips and cherry chips pop in for a week or two in the jar and bingo.... great info, great videos.
Just wondering what your thoughts are on using LME as opposed to full grain mash. Considering many breweries now use it over full grain they don’t seem to have a problem with flavour in their beer. Any comments on partial grain washes? I used to home brew that way; is it any good for distilling?
Hey Jessie, i have an all grain fermenting in the style of a Kentucky Bourbon. 80% corn, 12% Rye, 8 malt.
It's ticking away pretty slowly atm.
I can agree with everything you have said here.. Im wondering if diaceytl in all grain accounts for that more slightly more buttery mouth feel?
Thanks for the great info.
i still make sugar washes after 4years of doing this hobby. it's hot in the USA and i don't want to stand in my kitchen over a hot mash. it's easy to dump some sugar in a bucket and leave it on my porch for a couple of weeks. i just pick a cool distilling day. but can't wait for cooler weather to get back to making the good stuff.
@Jane Doe Drinking and distilling do NOT mix! Trust me. Lmao
@Jane Doe BAHAHAHAHAH
@Jane Doe You get one HUGE ATTA GIRL!!
I did a pineapple mash came out really good had a hit of the pineapple in it
I put pineapple mash and coconut in my thumper with 1 quart of 100 proof it makes a great fruity whiskey
Totally agree with you on the pineapple, definitely makes a great brandy.
I've used two different turbo yeast first was way more bubbles less foam next was a ton of foam and a few bubbles which one is better at the start of the wash?
just out of curiousity as i am not a dude for hard alcohol, i got myself into brewing a while ago and found this so my question is, can i use a sugar wash then let it sit to get clean and use it as a sort of mixing alcohol for example a sugar wash orange juce mix?
I'm new to distilling and have a question for the seasoned pro's If my sugar wash was at 15% 1st reading and at water level after it's done fermenting should I add more yeast to get it below the water mark on my Hydrometer or just run it? Thanks for helping.
Hi Jesse, do you reuse the wash left in the fermenter for a neutral spirt or do use reuse this yeast leftover.
Hey brother I have been working for a white wheat! Good luck it’s messy! If you don’t plan accordingly!
I would love to experiment with all grain and the process.
But I am a town dwelling and really don't have anywhere to go with my byproduct.
Sugar wash is just so versatile and clean.
And my spent wash waters the grass.
Hi Jesse, I'm enjoying your video's while I learn about home distilling here in NZ as well :) I made my first sugar wash using your calculator and I just have a question on total volume. I used 25L desired total volume and 1.0970 desired gravity. The calculator told me I need 6KG of sugar and 19.957 L of water. I have combined both and my total volume in the bucket is 23L? I was expecting 25L, any thoughts?
I have a 6 gallon fermentation bucket. And a 5 gallon steel soup pot. And a 10lb bag of sugar and a vacuum sealed hand full of yeast. I understand that I have to let it ferment. But how long do I wait for the “bubbler” to be correct. And I’m using an electric distiller.
If you double or triple distill, do you discard heads on each run or just first. Yes I'm new.
would you flavor at full abv then cut or, cut then falvor?
You really should make vodka out of potatoes, really looking forward to making that too
I think this would be a good video too! I mean how do you extract the starch from potatoes efficiently? Do you boil them? It's not like a grain which has everything needed to convert the starch.
@@FoolOfATuque i think you boil and smash them, maybe strain the solids out for the most part after fermentation. I think malted grain is added to it to convert potato starch into sugars
@@FoolOfATuque but I have no idea how the recipe would go
@@starshot5172 probably would need to add enzymes for sure. No idea though either since I'm new to this.
@@starshot5172 yeah, the malted grain will contain amylase which is the enzyme that breaks down starches into simple sugars.
Any experience with rice wine and distilled rice wine, sake baiju etc. I've got a run on the go but I'm only having mild success and id love a few tips. Or even just a nod towards some resources online you might know of?
I've done a few sugar washes for things like limoncello, blueberry liqueur etc. but I've never used it for vodka. I've done a small potato vodka batch, I currently have a beetroot vodka in the fermenter and lined up behind that is a sweet potato vodka (I understand they have amalayse in them?). Then I'm going to do a large batch of potato vodka because I like it more than I like commercial vodkas in the $35-50 range.
Can you do just sugar and water with nutrients to make a sugar wash? I’ve done that to make homemade vinagre. But seems like it would work.
Had an awful tasting pumpkin from my garden and some out of date bread improver with amylase in it - managed to convert it and ferment with bakers yeast. The resulting neutral was for gin and quite a mouthfeel, but was fine.
Have you ever tried a UJSSM "style" sugar wash using rye bread? Like distilled Kvass?
Sugar yeast wash throwaway 200mls from a 50L after that do I need to do cuts or do you just collect it all in a reflux until the temperature spikes.
Also what yeast would I be best to use I've been told that turbo classic 8 gives a bad flavour
Have you ever added a vodka (neutral alcohol) to your mash to kick up the ABV prior to running your still. Was think about making a cognac and was wondering if this would end in a good finished product?
Thank you, Jesse!!
My sugar wash is not working. Keeps stalling. Temp us kept at a constant 90 which is in area my yeast likes. Ph is 6.5 and it has been 2 weeks and still not at 0. I started yeast off 2 times in a starter jar and it went fine. But when I add it to mash it stalls. I am about to just run it low as this is just my sacrificial run
Love ya work Jessie
When I make a sugar wash out of straight white Domino sugar it always has an apple smell and taste. Does anyone know why?
Hi Jessie, great video mate, thanks. So, do sugar washes need to have head & tails removed, or it is all pretty safe once a bit of 'foreshots' are taken off at the start? James
I’m in the process of marking a suger wash with sugar and cinnamon any tips it’s been fermenting for 2 days now I’m using a turbo yeast and I’m planning on step feeding it till it hit my yeast ABV tolerance of 20% I’ve made lots of mead and wines but I’m new to distilling so any tips would be greatly appreciated
The norm with sugar wash is 2pds sugar per 1gal water.how much yeast?
Getting great results now from wheat and Angel special
Recetly got a boat load op bell peppers...
Whats the possibility of making a wash of that for vodka?
Sugar washes are excellent and super easy to do. You can add stuff like vanilla extract and spices to it if you want. And after you distill it, you can age it with various forms of wood. I did some with maple and people loved it. In fact they're asking for more of it.
How long did you age it?
When did you add the vanilla and spice?
Great video bro!!!
Can you use cornstarch to boost your mash
My first mash tasted like old sox used corn so I experimented with molasses and brown.sugar rum not to bad lol
Yes please make a potato vodka, my wife is Irish and has told me about her Gran making poitín out of potatoes out the back of the family farm in Ireland, so I'm keen to learn how to use them.
How do I make 45 or 50 percent sugar wash for drinking
Would using say brown, raw or a mix of several sugars make a better product? I even would say try caramelizing some of if not all of the sugar before pitching the yeast. If it works, it won't bring the price of the wash up by much.
I have only ever used sugar washes for my runs. I've tried dark brown sugar at first thinking it would make a better rum, but have now switched to white sugar, half the cost and I'm not sure there is a big difference after running through the still.
Since I filter my final distilled product through the 2.5m long activated charcoal tube, I can't see how I'll ever have much of a flavor profile remain after that process. My way of flavoring the neutral spirit has been using the "Still Spirits" flavoring essences and also my charred oak aging barrel. Am I wrong to assume that the filtration process strips 99% of all flavors out of the shine? Bad flavors and congeners but also the good flavor? Thoughts?
You should work on your cuts. Properly distilled spirits don't need any carbon filtering. Activated carbon strips almost everything out, good or bad, everything is stripped from the spirits. However, it's not a holy grain of distilling that changes crappy booze into fine liquor.
I do 58 lts of sugar wash with yeast, sugar and spirit enhancer (charcoal) I use a boka head and get 21 lts at 40% for my work. It takes approximately 24 hrs.for a still run and I then I flavour it to whatever the family members request. The excess is then distributed amongst work mates who appear to appreciate my product.
Do you think 100lb of white sugar is too much for a 50gal wash?
What happens if you run UJSSM with barley in stead of corn?
Also try putting lapsang souchong tea in the sight glass for a smokey edge
Can use barley or rye or a blend in the UJSSM style just changes the flavor.
Jesse; Do you have any thoughts on small scale commercial stills? Ones that will take a 4L wash and produce 500-750ml of 40%? I don't have the room to build a full scale still, nor do I have friends enough to drink all the spirits i'd be making with one.
Stupid question what makes vodka vodka I was always under the impression that it had to be made from potatoes originally and then grain
Hey Jessy. There's a brewery near me that uses milk to distil vodka, I think you need to try that
For potatoes you are in the right location. Get if you can the big starchy ones usually sold for chips. Look for Chippewa
Missed an opportunity to play ‘Pour some sugar on me’ in this episode
that would have been great! hahaha
Copyright
Beets. The sugar content in beets is Amazingly good for the making of vodka.
90% of sugar used in the world is derived from beets! So basically it’s been done!
It's a funny joke in my circles as I made one and messed up temps so it tasted like beets and so it came out at parties as a joke
@@voodoosnakebite Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.
first generation of UJSSM, putting cinnamon sticks in the vapor stream, makes a great flavor for mixers!!
Lol just don't put too much cinnamon sticks in. I did 5 and it was effing hot. Fireball hot. Added simple syrup and had a tasty cinnamon schnapps.
Excellent
How do you really know how a UJSSSM tastes until you age it in charred oak? Takes a while.
Huge Huge thank you for your video on inverted sugar.... I really needed to know this but I had no idea ...... Thank you bro
Happy to use sugar washes for all the reasons you mentioned as I only want to make neutrals, just wish I could get a reliable fast ferment with a clean yeast. I tried EC1118 and bread yeast and they both failed to move the gravity a single point, but Turbo nuked the site from orbit. Shame its got a fairly horrible flavour..
Did you manage to perfect your sugar wash recipe ?
Hey man, brought a turbo 500 reflux still, I'm after a single malt wiskey taste. What still would you suggest for my taste I'm after, also what mash. Just starting out with the craft. Need a push in the right direction. Cheers.
The Turbo 500 is made for sugar washes because it's a reflux still and will strip out all the flavor unless you remove the packing
Vodka from sugar is that rum? What makes a rum a rum. I'm new to this. Is it just words?
I just distilled a tomato paste wash and I'm thinking about adding fruits or spices to it to make a liquor out of it
Potato 🥔 yes dude !! That would be awesome 😎
What is you recipe for a sugar wash? I searched your site & YT, but only found the Birdwatchers video.
Why not add a little glycerin to improve the mouthfeel of a sugar wash? Or some tannin? Never tried it with spirit, but tannin often works for mead if it's lacking in body.