Tim's explanation of INTPs in society is very relatable. Society doesn't have a place for the theoretically systematic. I am the guy doing clerical work with tons of ideas in my head.
@@JoyceMeng22 No, thank you. This is lifechanging. :o I dunno how I've never seena video like this before with two Ti doms comparing and contrasting. 10/10.
I found how Tim doesn't know his points till he literally extraverts his intuition fascinating. We usually only talk about people doing that with decider/judging functions.
I'm terribly bad at writing essays, because the point of my own ideas eludes me. But I've learned to call my mom whenever I don't know where to start, just to drown her in my thoughts for a few moments. That helps a lot, since we share a lot of interests, even though we hardly share anything personality wise. Ne is so frustrating sometimes, because it tends to looks for a spark from outside to trigger idea generation. And the way my Ti works, I can't really put the concepts I'm done figuring out into words, they've become an abstract idea of how part of reality works.
@@gadnihasj Sometimes writing is that way. Frequently, one does not really know what one really wants to write until after the essay is finished. By then, things are more flushed and one's thinking is crystallized a bit. Both the beauty and the beast of writing.
As an INTP, Why I like to give a lot of information instead of narrowing that down - I like people to know the whole thing so that they can form their own perspective. But not everyone likes to know in detail as implied by Joyce that that's a lot of possibilities.
"INTPs often abandon the things they're passionate about halfway through". I think INTP's are often most passionate about the concept of things rather than the things themselves. Once the concept of how that thing works is absorbed, then the INTP basically "finished" what they actually came for. This may just not be a concious thing and might appear as losing interest haflway, even to the intp themselves. Ne is just collecting concepts for it's concepts collection.
All I'm ever doing in life is broadening my perspective... But I learned that actually doing things and seeing things though gives you a perspective that just theory can't give you. I still spend almost all of my time in my mind though lol
@@amidreaming333 yes I agree...working on your sensory gives you more of that concrete data to generate more concepts from, and also helps you avoid the avalanches that can come from ignoring the sensory world. I definitely need to work on this as well...you're not alone! :)
Love the closing of the discussion you do at the end with multiple layers of praise. INTP me would be like "Awright thanks for coming on guys, was fun".
As an INTP, I learned to get over the analysis paralysis by viewing the thing I have to choose and do as an experiment and a data point I can use to inform further analysis. Eventually I will hone my model and approach to things over time to get the perfect thing. By that time, it's habit.
What Dave was saying about Ne seeming magical is exactly how I've always felt being around high Ne users. My best friend growing up was an ENFP and I literally told her at one point it seemed like she had magical box inside her head. She was pretty confused but got it later on. Pretty cool.
istp here, I hate it when I ask a simple question and people try to assume my intent behind it without answering it. I met an intp and I just noticed how he was more into thoughts, ideas, and concepts while I was more into sensing and feeling stuff. also I find that I need to move in order to think better. I do this weird form/kata/dance thing, self taught, it's basically reconstructed HEMA kung fu taekwondo techniques. it helps me think, look for ideas, and I sometimes daydream at the same time. I am not a fighter though. I rarely abandon hobbies/activities. I continue them, but usually throughout the week/month and less often. My items are a "mess" but they are localized in three locations. Everything I need is there, I just look grab and go.
I think Se feeds into Ni. In a relaxed ISTP mindset, Ni collates and finds meaning behind an abundance of Se information that’s been preapproved by Ti. In a stressed frame of mind, Ni gives bullshit reasons for why you misread Inferior Fe data haha. E.g., going out to dinner with a friend, having an amazing time utilizing Fe properly, then getting in the car and going, (inferior Fe) 'hang on, did THEY actually have a good time? What if I misread it?' And then Ni steps in and goes “Yea, they definitely had a shit time, and I bet it’s because of XYZ."
Ti and Se for me feel like constant internal conflict. Part of me wants to think and analyze, and part of me wants to act in the moment. Jobs and activities seem to fall into one area or the other, and seldom both. So either way, after a busy day of one, I crave the other.
that photo comment is hilarious, both my dad and i are Si users but i think lower end, and we never had phots up on the wall, once i met my partner we discovered family photos, and suddenly we are both into it....
The thing about Ne is that it's extremely fun and satisfying to use. Ne brings out the wide-eyed kid in me. If the idea/thought/discussion is something I'm extremely passionate about and then Ne starts doing what it does, i'd feel my heart palpitate and my pupils dilate.
Yes! Me too! My Ti LOVES my Ne. I can get lost for hours just thinking of stuff and trying to make connections. And make my child Si comfy, psh, I'm gone for a full day.
Ni is literally darkness that's full of neutral-looking dots, and only Ni knows why the dots are there (its own way of openly collecting), and when Se is presented with something that the Ti wants to judge and know, Ni is triggered and make some of those dots emerge, glow, slowly connect into a pattern... It's only a pattern for Se to fill in details as it goes... and Ti recognizes the pattern, wholeness of the concrete representation with the rich details and is able to name what it is!
This both helped me understand INTP v. ISTP comparison but also made it very difficult for me to further separate which type I am. P.S. Pretty sure I am an ISTP but man I can't tell which middle observation functions I have.
This really worked out well! The guys are very good choices and I do not think anyone would doubt they're the types they think they are. It's interesting to hear them on their differences. I'm curious how this concept would work out with other simlar types.
I always felt but was never able to fully put into words what Dave is talking about At 9:20 ish with bad days. It’s really difficult to remember that my current state is only temporary
Learned a lot thanks joyce!, wished there was a similiar version of Te with Estj & Entj hearing them describe their driver as most sources online seem to be overly simplified to " getting things done".
Rewatching this (after a few months) just shook me back out of one of my semi-regular 'am I actually that type or something else' spells. I'm pretty confident (for now) that I'm an ISTP as I related to pretty much none of the NeSi side of things. Will probably be back to rewatch in a few months when I get it into might head that I could be an INTP again. I'm far on the less active end of ISTP, (software developer by trade) which tends to lead to confusion with INTP, but then I hear both types discussing things and the ISTP just makes much more sense. Barely thinking about yesterday or tomorrow? Check. The limit of my planning ahead (at least for everyday things) is knowing what food to buy on my weekly shopping trip, and even then I usually forget to account for things I have planned that week which mean I don't need something for that day. If something's going poorly with the day then everything seems awful? Check. I have entirely unfairly written places off for ever wanting to visit again because a bird got me while I was there and it made the rest of my visit miserable. Messy room... Check. (Even when I keep saying to myself that I'll get around to tidying it) Keeping strictly to the point when I say something? Check. Conversations and trains of thought can meander off course, but never at the rapid pace of Ne. I grew up in a house full of Si users (ISTJ mother, INTP father (I?)NTP brother). Mum cares entirely too much about where things go in her cupboards, and having seen this, I'm reminded of how much both she and Dad seems to enjoy photo albums when he decides to pull them out. Meanwhile I'm there looking at the same photo thinking, "It's a photo, why are you so interested in this?" and barely remembering anything that happened on that holiday or even last week.
I know this is 4 years old, but if Dave ever sees this - know that it might actually be an ISTP thing to enjoy those physical pushes. I'm a bit of a nerdy ISTP in that I never did sports, just train in the gym - (nerdy as in I was focused on learning theoretical/lots of topics rather then a couple few even if it's a 3 - 4 of those). But I find the best feeling of dopamine rush for my brain is just smashing a boxing bag as hard as I can. Form is garbage but it's just a lot of that happy chemical coming through.
idk what Dave is drinking but it looks like it could be a beer and it reminds me of a joke I’ve made on a lot of ISTP (my type) videos: The N in ISTP stands for “not an alcoholic”
Your Se is so strong; Great spotting that! I didn't even notice. Dave sometimes drinks before videos because it relaxes his introverted-ness Great joke xD! An ISTP comedian I see! haha
My whole perception of Se doms is they make everything simple, so they are the best people to ask in situations where you have to understand something. I remember the time when a co-worker stopped talking to me, and I played a hundred things in my head of why he was mad. One day I talked to an Se dom friend at work and he told me, just ask him.
The way Tim explains the interaction between the feeding of ideas from Ne to Ti is very much like an engine. Ideas get trimmed into relevant information and utilized by a system. It's just like gasoline being ignited and turned into carbon dioxide and energy.
I'm an INTP, and ISTPs are much more alert of other people's current state, which makes them much better at managing conflict. INTPs tend to be clueless of other people's current state.... :(
ISTP here. it can be a curse when low Fe doesnt know how to defuse the conflict and feel internally troubled once its over. i feel like im walking on eggshells when it happens and the guilt can eat me alive when i review the actions i did later when im analyzing what are the things i did wrong (days, months, years ago) and regret alot for saying the wrong things that can possibly hurt people's feelings. its a work in progress still for me and im constantly trying to work on my Fe even though im failing most of the time, gotta keep trying tho since my Ti-Se overpowers my decision making
This is how I see it with the INTP… When introverted thinking is activated the INTP’s extroverted intuition will automatically scan the environment for movement or patterns, while simultaneously checking the scans against introverted sensing. If movement or patterns that symbolize danger or opportunity etc are detected, extroverted sensing will be activated. extroverted sensing is very taxing for the INTP and this becomes apparent during large social gatherings. Extroverted intuition scans that fail introverted sensing are constant which activates extroverted sensing and prevents INTP from focusing on Introverted thinking.
Extroverted intuition scanning is broad and fragmented. Introverted thinking will attempt to piece together the incomplete data by checking the scans against introverted sensing. The INTP will use introverted sensing and Introverted thinking to “envision” a number of potential possibilities by “educated guessing” feasible outcomes.
INTPs are the Architects of ideas the ISTPs are much more concrete in their ideas and they get right to the point I guess to say that they are people of few words and more action oriented as all SPs are .
Less than 1 min in an I see the #1 most common misconception I see in both myself and other INTPs about their perception of Ti... He's talking about Ne! (As Dave called out, lol) For us INTPs, I feel like we live with such an inter-tangled relationship of our first 2/our main functions that it's SO hard to detangle. In some ways, we USE Ne more than Ti, but basically EVERYTHING runs through the Ti filter first, so that's debatable. Noting when I'm using Ne and when I'm using strictly Ti has been an extremely interesting exercise over the last few years, for me. Ti is borderline useless on it's own. (Just like logic as a concept.) As Marx said, Philosophy helps you understand the world, the point is to change it!
The point is not necessarily to change the world. It's much easier (and actually possible) to change how you relate to it, rather than try to control (change) the world/others. - intp
There is Ne being mentioned there but so do Si and Ti, the processing that he explained there is not specific to Ne alone. When he mentioned "taking thing (in absract manners) and splitting them apart" that was Ne transferring data to Si then Si further "associate them with others" is when SiTi working in tangent and then "building a logical web" is Ti final position as dominant funtion. It works as the ultimate funtion of the process. Edit: Sensing funtions allow us to hold specific information in a concrete manner. INTPs being an Si users "split" internal information into specific one which allows them to compare and contrast the data, meanwhile ISTPs breakdown external concrete data (Se) therefore their mechanic stereotype.
I wonder how much the Si plays a role in the cycle of the interests of the INTP (and INFP). Si is often related to the balance of things in the physical world like the body. The cycle of thingsis basically what types with high Si seem to focus on. They have a particular order in which they nagivate through the week or day where specifics play a big role. They first take a walk with the dog, then do this, then do that...There is a certain order in it.The order is a certain maintenance. Si does not react on things straight away when they arrive like Se does, but plans ahead. SO maybe the "collection" of ideas for INTP's is a sort of maintenance of the database, where not only 1 folder of 1 topic should be filled with concepts, but ideally lots of folders with lots of concepts, all collected over certain periods of time. x period collection of subject 1, x period collection of subject 2......3.4.5.....etc... Then back to 1 and all over again.
As an ISTP, I dont’t know if others relate, but I always thought that I’m a slow learner especially in terms of conceptual learning compared to all my Ne friends. Like Dave said, sensory detail by detail is needed...
INTP female...every partner I've ever had has been an ISTP male lol 🤣 and they all looked like they shopped at either a skater outlet or a lumberjack clothing store. ROFL and every single one of them has literally been a mechanic. Hahahahaha
(INTJ) This conversation really confirms i use Ni and nooooooooot Ne. Or Fe at all for that matter LOL But I couldn't help but notice that the emptier that beer was the chattier Dave became. :D
They have slight lagging behind to the ISTP's to collect theoretical discussions into the most concrete results over his abstract reasoning or interpretations, but some ISTP's I believe that having few or more complex to simple reasoning as long as they were very good at knowledge skills rather than to draw theoretical impressions that some the ISTP can be both competent between verbal and actual task in one, I also mentioning Miyamoto Musashi have both verbal and manual skills in one, but both gentlemen give the good results each others. I cultivated more at INTP in manuscripts but I've also skilled some part of the limited keys at ISTP unfortunately this is a sample contest but entirely I overlooked their cherished discussions to write prematurely but I give a two thumbs up both from them 👍☺️🇵🇭✌️💝💗💖💐🌺🌷🌼🌸❤️🌹
Hey Jay :D so if you mean be on the show, if you go through my typing service you can talk with me and I can connect you with other ISTPs. If this interests you, you can reach me at joycemeng22@gmail.com
You just asked? Hmmm. That is what an istp does? “I want to be on your show” and it just happens? I admire your moxy and lack of social savvy. I gotta try this. -INFJ
Are you the kid that eats dirt in the corner in preschool? No offense...because honestly, that kid couldn’t give a shit how weird they look to the rest of us, and I sort of admire that moxy as well, and it terrifies me.
Its been 1 year and im still not sure if i am an istp or an intp, but i think i have the right question to ask now: do all intps always get multiple ideas? Because i dont see that in myself. When i get an idea, i tend to lets say "refine" that one idea instead of getting multiple ones. I also dont really care about the past. Oh and im pretty gifted in sports, even tho i rarely do them. Points to istp i guess? Looking for an answer for the multiple ideas question
That's more on the ISTP side I would say. For the most part, exploring multiple ideas is pivotal to being an INTP. I don't know an INTP who doesn't do this as of yet. Hope this helps! :) I also have a typing service if you would like confirmation of your type, feel free to reach out to me at joycemeng22@gmail.com if you are interested! Cheers.
Great interview, I think I'm able to understand the functions and how they work together much better through the users' perspectives. Especially with Ti, because I don't have that myself. I really want to see a video like this with how INFP & ISFP process information. I'm an INFP myself, but don't know how to explain how Fi users think (because feelers think too, duh) using the cognitive functions.
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for requesting a video. INFP vs ISFP is going to be made one day; when I find a good representation of the ISFP personality :) It's hard to find that type in the community.
Really interesting and thanks for orchestrating this. As an INTP/ENTP with Ne/Ti high on the stack i found the concept of 'responsibility to know or understand' from ISTP quite foreign. I have never learnt something or considered sometheing due to a sense of responsibility, (apart from being at work or imposed circumstance) for me it is pure inquisitiveness or a desire to know, no responsibility involved at all full stop, it never drives my natural curiosity at all, completely foreign idea....
Hi Anton! I have a typing service if you would like help finding out if your best fit type. :) You can email me at joycemeng22@gmail.com if you are interested!
@@aishaadam7473 INFJs seem to have a thing for ISTPs. Our tertiary functions are attracted to dom functions of the same type. INFJs adore Ti and I as an ISTP myself adore Ni - particularly in NTJs because they are thinkers.
Good Video! But did you know, that all this stuff aboiut Functions...is a much more recent thing. It was not always this way. Frankly, while it may be useful, I feel its dishonest to call it "Myers-Briggs". But that's not your fault. It may be all you ever saw, online, when you got started. ? I've heard that JUNG himself, didn't even use J vs. P ...so it wasn't quite "Myers-Briggs", yet. and then, later-- Isabel Myers-Briggs would CO-author the book: Gifts Differing. Functions are mentioned in this book, but verrry brifely. Almost in passing, with nowhere near the constant mania we see online today. It WAS about the 4 letters and which ones you had. Not the functions. This ia also shown in 2 other widely circulated books on Type. (mentioned below) Isabel Myers-Briggs would CO-author the book: Gifts Differing. Functions are mentioned in this book, but verrry brifely. Almost in passing, with nowhere near the constant mania we see online today. It WAS about the 4 letters and which ones you had. Not the functions. This is also shown in 2 other widely popular Books on Myers-Briggs, both well-researched. They are: 1. TYPE TALK by Kroeger and Theussen. 2. LIFE TYPES by Hirsch & Kummerow Both books have profiles of all 16 types, and yet, you won't read about functions. These books are much closer, time-wise, to when Isabel was still living. and used for years after. Even closer to OUR time, in 2010, MIKE ADAMS and "Vision Leadership Systems"" had youtube videos on Myers Briggs, again all 16 types, and again, much, much smaller use of functions. This WAS Myers-Briggs and was " the real deal." Here's an example: ua-cam.com/video/xYvHckBPIWI/v-deo.html Now, I ask you: Did you hear him go on and on and on about: "introverted intuition", extroverted sensing, or "auxilliary" functions? Maybe 5%. Nothing at all like now. So what happened? Where did this "all-functions-all-the-time" get started? There may also be other causes, but one that was very noticeable to me and stood out (because of the sheer numbers of UA-cam videos, back when folks were making far less of them and there was "less competition") was stuff by "Dave Superpowers". It seemed to me that suddenly, out of nowhere, this guy practically flooded youtube with a tidal wave of videos, and this guy preached-functions-from-the-housetops. Most young Millennials and 20-somethings and 30-somethings apparantly didnt know any different...probably hadnt read ANY of the above books, which were around FIRST, and this guy seemed to "out youtube" everyone else/ So-o...it caught on. In my opinion. But it seemed much more like his own new system. I didnt find any other UA-camrs preaching functions like this. Again, compare Mike Adams, above, with anyone today. (more below)... Again, there may also have been other things, but on UA-cam, this one really stood out and was noticeable. There was less videos and less competition then. It was practically looking like a whole new system (his) at the time, but he made video after video and people started listening to him. If I'm not mistaken, "Dave" has his own system by now. For example, he has talked about whether a person is a "Jumper", or not. I've never read about that in any Myers-Briggs book. But that's the problem today. Nobody READS any well-researched books on Mywers-Briggs. (If they do, they sure don't mention them in their videos. It's just "all-functions-all-the-time". Even if functions ARE a useful tool, all I'm asking for, is for the Myers-Briggs content creators to realize all this functions-stuff is a fairly recent add-on (by a sudden blitzkrieg of videos, in my opinion) some years back. The EARLIER videos..i.e...Mike Adams...were closer to the Myers-Briggs and 16 Types Books. Plus, "Superpowers" talks a mile-a-minute like some used-car salesman. Then, those who listened to him (and AGAIN very likely has noooo knowledge of the above books) started making their own videos on type, parroting what they heard about functions. That's my view on it. Now we have another generation and another wave and its all the rage because folks can say a more complex system gives "a deeper look"....and again, People dont read the FOUNDER of the 2 or 3 most widely circulated books. But no one talks about that these days. Further, no one today asks: who wrote "the FUNCTIONS Reference-Bible" that this would even catch on in the first place? UA-camrs today don't cite any books they've read on Type. But they repeat endlessly what everybody else says about functions, like a bunch of Parrots. Food for thought. Now, I ask you: Above, did you hear Mike Adams go on and on and on about: "introverted intuition", extroverted sensing, or "auxilliary" functions? Maybe 5%. Nothing at all like now. And he was closer, in time, to Isabel Myers-Briggs, and the big popular books (which also have research behind them) but today no one says any of this in their youtube videos. Food for thought.
Joyce Meng Ah okay. The reason I thought that is because in this video of Binyamin on economics, ua-cam.com/video/SaFZ7LO_tVQ/v-deo.html , he mentions in the beginning that he has, “a high IQ... not relatively high, but very high.” He was using himself as an example to make a point about economics. So, when you said you knew an ISTP with a 160 IQ, I thought of that video.
Honestly, don’t know what type I am, but I feel like I’m closest to these two. (Of course it’s the two brainiacs😂) When I take the test I’m ISFP, which is great......if it were true. When I read about them it sounded more like my mom’s personality than mine. Lol If there’s anyone who knows a video/page that accurately and competently describes the differences between the two please let me know.
As an ISTP, I dont’t know if others relate, but I always thought that I’m a slow learner especially in terms of conceptual learning compared to all my Ne friends. Like Dave said, sensory detail by detail is needed...
idk if im a slow learner but i definitely feel like i need alot, i mean *ALOT* of details and information to comprehend concepts. it takes alot of years for sure and lots of reading/watching to "get it" lol. but first i need to be interested, if im not, i automatically ignore it be like _"what am i looking at? okay moving on"_
Tim's explanation of INTPs in society is very relatable. Society doesn't have a place for the theoretically systematic. I am the guy doing clerical work with tons of ideas in my head.
Yess! Society doesn't always utilize intuitive strengths. Thank you for watching by the way, James!!
There is one place: Author.
Unfortunately true
Einstein was a clerk before publishing those 5 papers on special relativity and photoelectric effect ;)
This is the best Ti video resource I've ever experienced.
Thank you, Nic!!
@@JoyceMeng22 No, thank you. This is lifechanging. :o
I dunno how I've never seena video like this before with two Ti doms comparing and contrasting. 10/10.
I found how Tim doesn't know his points till he literally extraverts his intuition fascinating. We usually only talk about people doing that with decider/judging functions.
I'm terribly bad at writing essays, because the point of my own ideas eludes me. But I've learned to call my mom whenever I don't know where to start, just to drown her in my thoughts for a few moments. That helps a lot, since we share a lot of interests, even though we hardly share anything personality wise. Ne is so frustrating sometimes, because it tends to looks for a spark from outside to trigger idea generation. And the way my Ti works, I can't really put the concepts I'm done figuring out into words, they've become an abstract idea of how part of reality works.
@@gadnihasj Sometimes writing is that way. Frequently, one does not really know what one really wants to write until after the essay is finished. By then, things are more flushed and one's thinking is crystallized a bit. Both the beauty and the beast of writing.
INTP’s are like the gamer who has all the strategies, and the ISTP is the video game character that does everything
As an INTP, Why I like to give a lot of information instead of narrowing that down - I like people to know the whole thing so that they can form their own perspective. But not everyone likes to know in detail as implied by Joyce that that's a lot of possibilities.
Was a lot of fun! Thanks for having me on!
It was so cool to have you on!! Spot on insights, Dave. So great talking to you. =]
Just so you all know, every time an ISTP Fe’s, an angel gets its wings.
"INTPs often abandon the things they're passionate about halfway through". I think INTP's are often most passionate about the concept of things rather than the things themselves. Once the concept of how that thing works is absorbed, then the INTP basically "finished" what they actually came for. This may just not be a concious thing and might appear as losing interest haflway, even to the intp themselves. Ne is just collecting concepts for it's concepts collection.
Concept collection! Yes, what a great way to put Ne. =]
Concept collection and concept refinement feeds the INTP soul.
All I'm ever doing in life is broadening my perspective...
But I learned that actually doing things and seeing things though gives you a perspective that just theory can't give you.
I still spend almost all of my time in my mind though lol
@@amidreaming333 yes I agree...working on your sensory gives you more of that concrete data to generate more concepts from, and also helps you avoid the avalanches that can come from ignoring the sensory world. I definitely need to work on this as well...you're not alone! :)
Excellent point!
Dave is a bright sunshine, Joyce a beautiful space supernova and Tim really leaves a feeling of a steady Egyptian Sphinx, beautiful people
Wow that's really cool, I've never heard anything like that in day to day conversation
Love the closing of the discussion you do at the end with multiple layers of praise. INTP me would be like "Awright thanks for coming on guys, was fun".
As an INTP, I learned to get over the analysis paralysis by viewing the thing I have to choose and do as an experiment and a data point I can use to inform further analysis. Eventually I will hone my model and approach to things over time to get the perfect thing. By that time, it's habit.
This is a great way to combat analysis paralysis as an INTP, thanks for sharing!
Thanks for sharing...I'm going to try that :)
What Dave was saying about Ne seeming magical is exactly how I've always felt being around high Ne users. My best friend growing up was an ENFP and I literally told her at one point it seemed like she had magical box inside her head. She was pretty confused but got it later on. Pretty cool.
istp here, I hate it when I ask a simple question and people try to assume my intent behind it without answering it. I met an intp and I just noticed how he was more into thoughts, ideas, and concepts while I was more into sensing and feeling stuff. also I find that I need to move in order to think better. I do this weird form/kata/dance thing, self taught, it's basically reconstructed HEMA kung fu taekwondo techniques. it helps me think, look for ideas, and I sometimes daydream at the same time. I am not a fighter though.
I rarely abandon hobbies/activities. I continue them, but usually throughout the week/month and less often.
My items are a "mess" but they are localized in three locations. Everything I need is there, I just look grab and go.
I love this! Thank you for sharing your own experience as an ISTP. It really helps us draw clearer differentiations between the two types. :)
Yeah, I can relate as a fellow istp
I think Se feeds into Ni. In a relaxed ISTP mindset, Ni collates and finds meaning behind an abundance of Se information that’s been preapproved by Ti. In a stressed frame of mind, Ni gives bullshit reasons for why you misread Inferior Fe data haha. E.g., going out to dinner with a friend, having an amazing time utilizing Fe properly, then getting in the car and going, (inferior Fe) 'hang on, did THEY actually have a good time? What if I misread it?' And then Ni steps in and goes “Yea, they definitely had a shit time, and I bet it’s because of XYZ."
Ti and Se for me feel like constant internal conflict. Part of me wants to think and analyze, and part of me wants to act in the moment. Jobs and activities seem to fall into one area or the other, and seldom both. So either way, after a busy day of one, I crave the other.
You're a wonderful interviewer Joyce! Very informative discussion
Thank you Mel 😊 that's kind of you to say. I appreciate you watching 💙
Tim’s personality is a magnet and dave is gorgeuse. They both have cute way they talk and fidget and their expresion🥰
that photo comment is hilarious, both my dad and i are Si users but i think lower end, and we never had phots up on the wall, once i met my partner we discovered family photos, and suddenly we are both into it....
The thing about Ne is that it's extremely fun and satisfying to use. Ne brings out the wide-eyed kid in me.
If the idea/thought/discussion is something I'm extremely passionate about and then Ne starts doing what it does, i'd feel my heart palpitate and my pupils dilate.
Yes! Me too! My Ti LOVES my Ne. I can get lost for hours just thinking of stuff and trying to make connections. And make my child Si comfy, psh, I'm gone for a full day.
Amazing video, Joyce "that's so cool" Meng xd
Thanks 😂😂 I see you've noticed my catchphrase!
Ni is literally darkness that's full of neutral-looking dots, and only Ni knows why the dots are there (its own way of openly collecting), and when Se is presented with something that the Ti wants to judge and know, Ni is triggered and make some of those dots emerge, glow, slowly connect into a pattern... It's only a pattern for Se to fill in details as it goes... and Ti recognizes the pattern, wholeness of the concrete representation with the rich details and is able to name what it is!
„There is a vibe that I can kill“ gold
This is rewarding. the discussion , tim's research too.
This both helped me understand INTP v. ISTP comparison but also made it very difficult for me to further separate which type I am.
P.S. Pretty sure I am an ISTP but man I can't tell which middle observation functions I have.
This really worked out well! The guys are very good choices and I do not think anyone would doubt they're the types they think they are. It's interesting to hear them on their differences. I'm curious how this concept would work out with other simlar types.
Glad to hear!! Yes it would be great to see this contrast with other types too. More videos like this to come. ^-^
I always felt but was never able to fully put into words what Dave is talking about At 9:20 ish with bad days. It’s really difficult to remember that my current state is only temporary
ISTP accuracy and brevity. This is the way.
Yup! It is a talent. :)
This is the way.
You have spoken
Nicki H stop gushin’
Learned a lot thanks joyce!, wished there was a similiar version of Te with Estj & Entj hearing them describe their driver as most sources online seem to be overly simplified to " getting things done".
This is coming up in the future!!
I agree that Te is over-simplified in MBTI - thanks for watching, Lars Guerra :)!
Fun episode, thank you all!
Rewatching this (after a few months) just shook me back out of one of my semi-regular 'am I actually that type or something else' spells. I'm pretty confident (for now) that I'm an ISTP as I related to pretty much none of the NeSi side of things. Will probably be back to rewatch in a few months when I get it into might head that I could be an INTP again.
I'm far on the less active end of ISTP, (software developer by trade) which tends to lead to confusion with INTP, but then I hear both types discussing things and the ISTP just makes much more sense.
Barely thinking about yesterday or tomorrow? Check. The limit of my planning ahead (at least for everyday things) is knowing what food to buy on my weekly shopping trip, and even then I usually forget to account for things I have planned that week which mean I don't need something for that day.
If something's going poorly with the day then everything seems awful? Check. I have entirely unfairly written places off for ever wanting to visit again because a bird got me while I was there and it made the rest of my visit miserable.
Messy room... Check. (Even when I keep saying to myself that I'll get around to tidying it)
Keeping strictly to the point when I say something? Check. Conversations and trains of thought can meander off course, but never at the rapid pace of Ne.
I grew up in a house full of Si users (ISTJ mother, INTP father (I?)NTP brother). Mum cares entirely too much about where things go in her cupboards, and having seen this, I'm reminded of how much both she and Dad seems to enjoy photo albums when he decides to pull them out. Meanwhile I'm there looking at the same photo thinking, "It's a photo, why are you so interested in this?" and barely remembering anything that happened on that holiday or even last week.
I know this is 4 years old, but if Dave ever sees this - know that it might actually be an ISTP thing to enjoy those physical pushes. I'm a bit of a nerdy ISTP in that I never did sports, just train in the gym - (nerdy as in I was focused on learning theoretical/lots of topics rather then a couple few even if it's a 3 - 4 of those). But I find the best feeling of dopamine rush for my brain is just smashing a boxing bag as hard as I can. Form is garbage but it's just a lot of that happy chemical coming through.
Oh thats so cool
Great video and interview! Very well executed and highlighted ISTP/INTP similarities and differences well.
Glad you enjoyed it! Thank you so much for watching :)
idk what Dave is drinking but it looks like it could be a beer and it reminds me of a joke I’ve made on a lot of ISTP (my type) videos:
The N in ISTP stands for “not an alcoholic”
Your Se is so strong; Great spotting that! I didn't even notice. Dave sometimes drinks before videos because it relaxes his introverted-ness
Great joke xD! An ISTP comedian I see! haha
Great video comparing and contrasting
My whole perception of Se doms is they make everything simple, so they are the best people to ask in situations where you have to understand something. I remember the time when a co-worker stopped talking to me, and I played a hundred things in my head of why he was mad. One day I talked to an Se dom friend at work and he told me, just ask him.
The way Tim explains the interaction between the feeding of ideas from Ne to Ti is very much like an engine. Ideas get trimmed into relevant information and utilized by a system. It's just like gasoline being ignited and turned into carbon dioxide and energy.
That's an amazing analogy, James! :) Yes Ti narrows down and sorts relevant Ne into a framework/model. How true ^-^
James Downs it‘s interesting bc I have the feeling that I process ideas the same way but more for emotional and artistic value. (INFP)
I love this video! Thank you all for this. It served as a great resource for me to think more about the observer axes, actually.
Glad you enjoyed it, I'm happy it sparked some thoughts on the observer axis for you!! :)
Amorette Bertilson like an actual “ax”? Who the fuck is Dave?
I'm an INTP, and ISTPs are much more alert of other people's current state, which makes them much better at managing conflict. INTPs tend to be clueless of other people's current state.... :(
ISTP here. it can be a curse when low Fe doesnt know how to defuse the conflict and feel internally troubled once its over. i feel like im walking on eggshells when it happens and the guilt can eat me alive when i review the actions i did later when im analyzing what are the things i did wrong (days, months, years ago) and regret alot for saying the wrong things that can possibly hurt people's feelings. its a work in progress still for me and im constantly trying to work on my Fe even though im failing most of the time, gotta keep trying tho since my Ti-Se overpowers my decision making
Great video!
This is how I see it with the INTP… When introverted thinking is activated the INTP’s extroverted intuition will automatically scan the environment for movement or patterns, while simultaneously checking the scans against introverted sensing. If movement or patterns that symbolize danger or opportunity etc are detected, extroverted sensing will be activated. extroverted sensing is very taxing for the INTP and this becomes apparent during large social gatherings. Extroverted intuition scans that fail introverted sensing are constant which activates extroverted sensing and prevents INTP from focusing on Introverted thinking.
Extroverted intuition scanning is broad and fragmented. Introverted thinking will attempt to piece together the incomplete data by checking the scans against introverted sensing. The INTP will use introverted sensing and Introverted thinking to “envision” a number of potential possibilities by “educated guessing” feasible outcomes.
INTPs are the Architects of ideas the ISTPs are much more concrete in their ideas and they get right to the point I guess to say that they are people of few words and more action oriented as all SPs are .
Less than 1 min in an I see the #1 most common misconception I see in both myself and other INTPs about their perception of Ti... He's talking about Ne! (As Dave called out, lol)
For us INTPs, I feel like we live with such an inter-tangled relationship of our first 2/our main functions that it's SO hard to detangle. In some ways, we USE Ne more than Ti, but basically EVERYTHING runs through the Ti filter first, so that's debatable. Noting when I'm using Ne and when I'm using strictly Ti has been an extremely interesting exercise over the last few years, for me. Ti is borderline useless on it's own. (Just like logic as a concept.)
As Marx said, Philosophy helps you understand the world, the point is to change it!
The point is not necessarily to change the world. It's much easier (and actually possible) to change how you relate to it, rather than try to control (change) the world/others. - intp
There is Ne being mentioned there but so do Si and Ti, the processing that he explained there is not specific to Ne alone. When he mentioned "taking thing (in absract manners) and splitting them apart" that was Ne transferring data to Si then Si further "associate them with others" is when SiTi working in tangent and then "building a logical web" is Ti final position as dominant funtion. It works as the ultimate funtion of the process.
Edit: Sensing funtions allow us to hold specific information in a concrete manner. INTPs being an Si users "split" internal information into specific one which allows them to compare and contrast the data, meanwhile ISTPs breakdown external concrete data (Se) therefore their mechanic stereotype.
Great conversation. So many insights from Everyone...I still don't know which I am...oh well
Dave my crush, why do I crush on every ISTP 😄
I wonder how much the Si plays a role in the cycle of the interests of the INTP (and INFP). Si is often related to the balance of things in the physical world like the body. The cycle of thingsis basically what types with high Si seem to focus on. They have a particular order in which they nagivate through the week or day where specifics play a big role. They first take a walk with the dog, then do this, then do that...There is a certain order in it.The order is a certain maintenance. Si does not react on things straight away when they arrive like Se does, but plans ahead. SO maybe the "collection" of ideas for INTP's is a sort of maintenance of the database, where not only 1 folder of 1 topic should be filled with concepts, but ideally lots of folders with lots of concepts, all collected over certain periods of time. x period collection of subject 1, x period collection of subject 2......3.4.5.....etc... Then back to 1 and all over again.
Yes, that totally sounds Si; The element of returning back to a certain cycle/order. I like the database analogy for INTPs. Nicely put!
As an ISTP, I dont’t know if others relate, but I always thought that I’m a slow learner especially in terms of conceptual learning compared to all my Ne friends. Like Dave said, sensory detail by detail is needed...
INTP female...every partner I've ever had has been an ISTP male lol 🤣 and they all looked like they shopped at either a skater outlet or a lumberjack clothing store. ROFL and every single one of them has literally been a mechanic. Hahahahaha
INTP here also. I married one like that. Lol
@Joyce Meng, awesome color on you!
(INTJ) This conversation really confirms i use Ni and nooooooooot Ne. Or Fe at all for that matter LOL
But I couldn't help but notice that the emptier that beer was the chattier Dave became. :D
They have slight lagging behind to the ISTP's to collect theoretical discussions into the most concrete results over his abstract reasoning or interpretations, but some ISTP's I believe that having few or more complex to simple reasoning as long as they were very good at knowledge skills rather than to draw theoretical impressions that some the ISTP can be both competent between verbal and actual task in one,
I also mentioning Miyamoto Musashi have both verbal and manual skills in one,
but both gentlemen give the good results each others.
I cultivated more at INTP in manuscripts but I've also skilled some part of the limited keys at ISTP
unfortunately this is a sample contest but entirely I overlooked their cherished discussions to write prematurely but I give a two thumbs up both from them
👍☺️🇵🇭✌️💝💗💖💐🌺🌷🌼🌸❤️🌹
I’m an ISTP and would love to schedule a talk with you guys.
Hey Jay :D so if you mean be on the show, if you go through my typing service you can talk with me and I can connect you with other ISTPs. If this interests you, you can reach me at joycemeng22@gmail.com
You just asked? Hmmm. That is what an istp does? “I want to be on your show” and it just happens? I admire your moxy and lack of social savvy. I gotta try this. -INFJ
Are you the kid that eats dirt in the corner in preschool? No offense...because honestly, that kid couldn’t give a shit how weird they look to the rest of us, and I sort of admire that moxy as well, and it terrifies me.
Has Good I ate sticks and glue in kingaryten! Straight up... Good call! lol
Has Good thanks for noticing my moxy:)
Its been 1 year and im still not sure if i am an istp or an intp, but i think i have the right question to ask now: do all intps always get multiple ideas? Because i dont see that in myself. When i get an idea, i tend to lets say "refine" that one idea instead of getting multiple ones. I also dont really care about the past. Oh and im pretty gifted in sports, even tho i rarely do them. Points to istp i guess? Looking for an answer for the multiple ideas question
That's more on the ISTP side I would say. For the most part, exploring multiple ideas is pivotal to being an INTP. I don't know an INTP who doesn't do this as of yet. Hope this helps! :)
I also have a typing service if you would like confirmation of your type, feel free to reach out to me at joycemeng22@gmail.com if you are interested! Cheers.
Whhhaaoooaaaaaa Ti! :D
Ti for days!! ^-^
Do you think zodiac signs factor into mbti types? If yes, how? If not, why not? 😊
Great interview, I think I'm able to understand the functions and how they work together much better through the users' perspectives. Especially with Ti, because I don't have that myself. I really want to see a video like this with how INFP & ISFP process information. I'm an INFP myself, but don't know how to explain how Fi users think (because feelers think too, duh) using the cognitive functions.
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for requesting a video. INFP vs ISFP is going to be made one day; when I find a good representation of the ISFP personality :) It's hard to find that type in the community.
Hey you didn't gave the link to Tim's article
Tim doesn't have any socials!
Really interesting and thanks for orchestrating this. As an INTP/ENTP with Ne/Ti high on the stack i found the concept of 'responsibility to know or understand' from ISTP quite foreign. I have never learnt something or considered sometheing due to a sense of responsibility, (apart from being at work or imposed circumstance) for me it is pure inquisitiveness or a desire to know, no responsibility involved at all full stop, it never drives my natural curiosity at all, completely foreign idea....
Do you know what Tim's full type is? In the OP system, I mean
Tim's full type is most likely Ti-Ne FM CP/B(S) but he hasn't been officially shaved (typed) yet!
@@JoyceMeng22 thanks so much!
What is ideal trade for istp..?
Carpentry
Electrician
Mechanic
Your opinion..?
Pliss tell me..
Can you help me...???. I am confused whether I am an intp / istp person please give me a test in the form of questions...
Hi Anton! I have a typing service if you would like help finding out if your best fit type. :) You can email me at joycemeng22@gmail.com if you are interested!
Out of topic but any one notice that joyce and tim have a little bit chemistry😬
They literally have the same functions. Different order, but same the functions.
@@kevrokka.d.9749 so is that yes or no
@@aishaadam7473 INFJs seem to have a thing for ISTPs. Our tertiary functions are attracted to dom functions of the same type.
INFJs adore Ti and I as an ISTP myself adore Ni - particularly in NTJs because they are thinkers.
Good Video!
But did you know, that all this stuff aboiut Functions...is a much more recent thing. It was not always this way. Frankly, while it may be useful, I feel its dishonest to call it "Myers-Briggs". But that's not your fault. It may be all you ever saw, online, when you got started. ?
I've heard that JUNG himself, didn't even use J vs. P ...so it wasn't quite "Myers-Briggs", yet. and then, later--
Isabel Myers-Briggs would CO-author the book: Gifts Differing. Functions are mentioned in this book, but verrry brifely. Almost in passing, with nowhere near the constant mania we see online today. It WAS about the 4 letters and which ones you had. Not the functions. This ia also shown in 2 other widely circulated books on Type. (mentioned below)
Isabel Myers-Briggs would CO-author the book: Gifts Differing. Functions are mentioned in this book, but verrry brifely. Almost in passing, with nowhere near the constant mania we see online today. It WAS about the 4 letters and which ones you had. Not the functions. This is also shown in 2 other widely popular Books on Myers-Briggs, both well-researched. They are:
1. TYPE TALK by Kroeger and Theussen.
2. LIFE TYPES by Hirsch & Kummerow
Both books have profiles of all 16 types, and yet, you won't read about functions. These books are much closer, time-wise, to when Isabel was still living. and used for years after.
Even closer to OUR time, in 2010, MIKE ADAMS and "Vision Leadership Systems"" had youtube videos on Myers Briggs, again all 16 types, and again, much, much smaller use of functions. This WAS Myers-Briggs and was " the real deal." Here's an example: ua-cam.com/video/xYvHckBPIWI/v-deo.html Now, I ask you: Did you hear him go on and on and on about: "introverted intuition", extroverted sensing, or "auxilliary" functions? Maybe 5%. Nothing at all like now.
So what happened? Where did this "all-functions-all-the-time" get started? There may also be other causes, but one that was very noticeable to me and stood out (because of the sheer numbers of UA-cam videos, back when folks were making far less of them and there was "less competition") was stuff by "Dave Superpowers". It seemed to me that suddenly, out of nowhere, this guy practically flooded youtube with a tidal wave of videos, and this guy preached-functions-from-the-housetops.
Most young Millennials and 20-somethings and 30-somethings apparantly didnt know any different...probably hadnt read ANY of the above books, which were around FIRST, and this guy seemed to "out youtube" everyone else/ So-o...it caught on. In my opinion. But it seemed much more like his own new system. I didnt find any other UA-camrs preaching functions like this. Again, compare Mike Adams, above, with anyone today. (more below)...
Again, there may also have been other things, but on UA-cam, this one really stood out and was noticeable. There was less videos and less competition then. It was practically looking like a whole new system (his) at the time, but he made video after video and people started listening to him. If I'm not mistaken, "Dave" has his own system by now. For example, he has talked about whether a person is a "Jumper", or not. I've never read about that in any Myers-Briggs book. But that's the problem today. Nobody READS any well-researched books on Mywers-Briggs. (If they do, they sure don't mention them in their videos. It's just "all-functions-all-the-time". Even if functions ARE a useful tool, all I'm asking for, is for the Myers-Briggs content creators to realize all this functions-stuff is a fairly recent add-on (by a sudden blitzkrieg of videos, in my opinion) some years back. The EARLIER videos..i.e...Mike Adams...were closer to the Myers-Briggs and 16 Types Books.
Plus, "Superpowers" talks a mile-a-minute like some used-car salesman. Then, those who listened to him (and AGAIN very likely has noooo knowledge of the above books) started making their own videos on type, parroting what they heard about functions. That's my view on it. Now we have another generation and another wave and its all the rage because folks can say a more complex system gives "a deeper look"....and again, People dont read the FOUNDER of the 2 or 3 most widely circulated books. But no one talks about that these days. Further, no one today asks: who wrote "the FUNCTIONS Reference-Bible" that this would even catch on in the first place? UA-camrs today don't cite any books they've read on Type. But they repeat endlessly what everybody else says about functions, like a bunch of Parrots. Food for thought. Now, I ask you: Above, did you hear Mike Adams go on and on and on about: "introverted intuition", extroverted sensing, or "auxilliary" functions? Maybe 5%. Nothing at all like now. And he was closer, in time, to Isabel Myers-Briggs, and the big popular books (which also have research behind them) but today no one says any of this in their youtube videos. Food for thought.
That ISTP with a 160 IQ is Binyamin... am I right?
It could apply for Binyamin! He's a smart cookie. At the moment I was referring to my ISTP friend who went to Harvard. :)
Joyce Meng Ah okay. The reason I thought that is because in this video of Binyamin on economics, ua-cam.com/video/SaFZ7LO_tVQ/v-deo.html , he mentions in the beginning that he has, “a high IQ... not relatively high, but very high.” He was using himself as an example to make a point about economics. So, when you said you knew an ISTP with a 160 IQ, I thought of that video.
Yikes... I need to re-examine that video.
How you doing FOsology?
Binyamin Tsadik Pretty good man, how about you?
Honestly, don’t know what type I am, but I feel like I’m closest to these two. (Of course it’s the two brainiacs😂) When I take the test I’m ISFP, which is great......if it were true. When I read about them it sounded more like my mom’s personality than mine. Lol If there’s anyone who knows a video/page that accurately and competently describes the differences between the two please let me know.
+
Is Dave someone I should know? I don’t get it.
As an ISTP, I dont’t know if others relate, but I always thought that I’m a slow learner especially in terms of conceptual learning compared to all my Ne friends. Like Dave said, sensory detail by detail is needed...
So interesting!! That's a good point. :) Yes, I would think that sensory detail is definitely more helpful to get a more concrete sense of the topic.
idk if im a slow learner but i definitely feel like i need alot, i mean *ALOT* of details and information to comprehend concepts. it takes alot of years for sure and lots of reading/watching to "get it" lol. but first i need to be interested, if im not, i automatically ignore it be like _"what am i looking at? okay moving on"_