A 30-year-old computer, that’s run day and night for decades, is what turns the heat and air conditioning on and off at 19 GRPS schools. (June 11, 2015)
Ilan D Sure you can! You just have to disassemble the amiga, pull out the socketed EPROM chips, erase them with UV light, get out your trusty EPROM programmer and write new code to the chips and hope you get it all back together with no bent or broken pins on the chips. Easy! :)
@@GiordanDiodato You cant kill an amiga 2000. I have one and its very easy to work on or get spare parts. Just make a copy of the program running the thing and reinstall it on a SD card using a scsi/ide adapter, the end
SponzifyMee They said that it has broken multiple times before, and the parts are getting harder and harder to find. What if it breaks in the middle of a particularly bad winter?
The news is inferring that a computer that controls heating and cooling is more important than getting things that could kill the kids out of buildings, not like the district has much cooling in the first place, most school districts in Michigan only have heating.
removing asbestos > replacing old (but working) computer yup... sounds about right. keep up the good work, dude in yellow shirt that news lady is a knucklehead
Our own little 3d world That's like asking why replace a car with 1 million miles on it. It might work right now in this moment, but do you want to have to rely on such an old worn out car?
Our own little 3d world Because in case of hardware failure, they'd have a big problem. Also, I'm guessing just maintenaning the system is an issue. What if you need to alter some functionality? Switching to a brand new standard system running on new hardware, will pay it self back in the long run.
Plank Hill Do you know how much a car costs? If an old car still works, I'm going to keep using it for the simple fact that it does amazingly well at getting me from point A to point B.
Zeboath If it comes to that point, then their computer wouldn't work with the new stuff anyways and they'll have to get a new one, but until then, it still works.
***** Yeah, and it still works, why replace it? It's that old saying, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Why bother getting a more expensive computer when a cheap one will still do.
Besides the Amiga is anyone else impressed that the monitor still appears to be in decent working condition after 30 years? (It's a C64 monitor / model 1702 so at least 30 yrs old).
73mathesar Not really. Those monitors are/were pretty awesome. Circa 2000 I used them on my VHS edit stations because they were cheap workhorses. I still have one that works for retro gaming.
Towards the end of the interview reporter asks what would happen if it stopped working tomorrow. He said probably EBay, where we got this one; so it isn't the same computer
Eric Dawson I guess they don't make them like they used to, All of my PC CRT's were replaced due to failure after 3-6 years of use lol, the longest lasting was a Sony FW900 , it lasted 8 years before the flyback transformer failed.
73mathesar "Parts for the computer are difficult to find, Hopkins said. It is on its second mouse and third monitor." - woodtv.com/2015/06/11/1980s-computer-controls-grps-heat-and-ac/
As much as I love seeing the capabilities of new tech, I enjoy seeing old tech being put to good use and standing the test of time. Still, this system should no doubt be replaced at some point, as I doubt there's much support for it if there is a problem. That said, they've surely made the right decision to prioritise the removal of asbestos and other harmful substances!
Well, if my 26-year-old Amiga 500 still runs like it did on the day I got it, then why should that (almost) 30-year-old Amiga 2000 stop working anytime soon? Remember that Amigas are beings of inner calm and strength - they achive extraordinary longevity through "Guru Mediation". Note: It can't actually be 30 years old, since the A2000 didn't come out until 1987
a 2017 computer cannot run longer than 4 years on a 24/7 daily basis , it will one day cease and burn out because the little circuits are soo small and delicate , one little wire burning out would result in all error and self meltdown a 1980s computer has thick bigger circuits , and can last longer because it is thicker circuits and are made very well since back then things werent made crappy sure the 1980s computer isnt as powerful as the modern tech computer of today , but you do not need an einstein to run a freak'n network a.c./heating unit
Laz3rSharkz Except that this is an Amiga, not a PC. This is just one of many reasons why the world would be a better place if the Amiga became the dominant platform, and not Windows PCs.
***** Seriously speaking, a good PC is more reliable than a PS4, which will probably break in a few years (not all of them, just a greater amount than PC's).
What they should do going forward is use the same model of computer as the school's computer labs which, being front line student-facing educational tools, should be replaced sooner and provide an on-hand parts backup for the back-end equipment like this.
I love how this 1980's Amiga 2000 is still controlling 19 school buildings over radio modem - this is like WiFi just 20 years earlier. 1) Regarding radio interference: every public RF frequency has interference, even WiFi has algorithm how to change channel to avoid sharing multiple SSID on it. 2) Just do not use walkies talkies at that Amiga's RF frequency and Amiga can live for another 30 years. 3) Keep Amiga running. Space satellites use 386 and 486 processors even today (big transistors are reliable, in space mostly against cosmic radiation).
The games machine i bought with 8 GB memory, 3GB graphics card and an Quad Core Athlon processor and 2 x 256 GB SSDs - worked for 5 years. Same with all PCs and laptops i bought since 1996. Except the latest gaming laptop and a netbook that still work. The Amiga 1000 i bought- still works. The Amiga 4000 i bought - still works. The Amiga 1200 i bought - still works. The Commodore 128D i bought - still works. My C64's (plural) i bought - still works. Only ones showing a problem is one C64 and a Vic 20 that need repairs. Granted, all of them needs capacitors replaced and the potentially leaking batteries have been removed in the Amiga 4000 and 1200 (it's accelerator card had one) but after a recap, all of the Amigas can continue to chug along for another 30 years.
Shanie MyrsTear Removal of asbestos, updated boilers and heat pipes, insulation upgrades -- all of those things are more important than what is effectively a thermostat controller. You could control the district's HVAC from an ipad and setup remote login access for under 50,000... not sure why they're asking for this humongous grant.
TheConstantComet and you're also forgetting they've already recieved 170 million and didn't fix the problem then, so they seem to have designed their own failure
- BossMann - Equipment is cheap. Paying someone $200 an hour to setup the system is expensive. Further, Rasberry Pi's don't always and pretty much don't have the software to manage HVAC systems. This isn't just some simple SMTP thing. Further, the real money is on the support contracts as well. Who gets a call when shiznits really broken.
- BossMann - Replacement system will cost about $250K+. You will need to update each one of the 19 schools at about $10K ea. and the central system for about $30K or so. Add documentation, training and support for another$30K.
Actually that Amiga 2000 computer was most likely purchased in 1987-1988 as the Amiga 2000 was first released in 1987 and was a higher end business oriented computer at the time as it had the best inbuilt visual and sound capabilities of any PC at the time which wasn’t a really large workstation computer.
A 1980's Commodore PC, running 24/7 for the last 30 years, has been controlling the heat and a/c for the entire Grand Rapids, Michigan school district.
I picture some dude at this computer entering a string of numbers every 108 minutes to avoid a catastrophe. And did I miss something? The computer is 30 years old, and the guy said they bought it on ebay, and ebay didn't exist until 1995. So they either bought the computer when it was at least a decade old, or this guy doesn't know what he's talking about (or is lying).
I've seen things... you people wouldn't believe. School buses on fire off the shoulder of Orion; I watched C students glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate... All those moments… will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
"Live In Studio Control", a more proffesional way of saying "Live from the room next door because we either don't have a satellite truck or just wanted to make it seem better than having her sit next to us in the studio"
funniest things about vintage electronics is that it often contains precious metals (gold, palladium etc,) that makes scrap worth many times that its current value.
Blender Addict It's not as reliable. I have been working on a HVAC automation project with a Raspberry Pi and I replaced it after a few months because of reliability issues. I used a very old Dell laptop which has been working OK for 3+ years and still going strong (I just replaced the original HDD with a SSD)
Blender Addict "Faster" isn't that important when the computer just sends a radio signal to turn the A/C on or off a couple times a day. As a rule of thumb, if you could do the job with a person driving between buildings turning a light switch on and off, you don't really need transistors that can change state several million times per second. :D
whatismindnomatter Now when i think about it, it's linux machine, this can be actually pretty much portable. And i doubt that those things are that complex that someone with some practice in scripting would not write that in short time.
I find it hard to believe that their maintenance department uses walkie talkies that use the same frequencies the computer uses. They said the Computer sends commands using "Shortwave" frequencies which is commonly referred as the HF or High frequency spectrum of the bands and no company or maintenance organization would use HF for their operation. VHF maybe or even UHF. HF or shortwave is never used for operations like that (too noisy and short range in the daytime)
Neavris The computer is not the cost, it's the software and installation/configuration that runs tens of thousands of dollars if not more. The bill doesn't just for the computer. Renovation and updating of school has much higher priority.
They probably already replaced everything with a $25 programmable thermostat and turned off the computer, but that display keeps showing "status: ok" when the monitor alone is turned on. :)
I have several I can sell them for a premium. All mine still work great. a 500, 3000T x 2 and 4 2000's. I wonder if they get an emulation program on a pc, they can continue to run their amiga program for years to come.
"ebay, where this one came from" So - it HAS in fact NOT been running for 30 years, 24/7 like these "reporters" said. It has in fact been replaced at least once. Maybe the reporters think eBay was around 30 years ago - before the world wide web. Then again, they showed a TV ad for a Commodore 64 in this story about an Amiga 2000, so WTF do they know? Also - why is it the default position of the news reporters that replacing a 30 year old computer is somehow wasteful spending - or rather, NOT replacing it means money must have been wasted elsewhere? Why must everything be approached cynically?
175 million bond is the only way they can fix a 1000 dollar problem. If it was that big a deal each school could have kicked in 50 dollars and it would be fixed.
LookForThetruth11 This is not a $1000 problem. They are looking to replace the entire outdated control system, not just the 80's computer that runs it.
LookForThetruth11 You misunderstand. It's not just the computer that needs to be replaced. It's a 19 site infrastructure of hvac controls. I just had a partial replacment done on a single three floor office building for the tune of $30k.
at the end 1:57 he says " we look for ebay, which is where this one came form" So this is a bit confusing. Did he buy that A2000 from eBay? I'm guessing maybe the previous A2000 died and they bought another one? How come this has been running for decades now? This news program is a bit misleading I guess. Also I believe they can easily replace it with a Raspberry Pi. They can still run that automation program on an Amiga emulator on a Pi and still attach that radio device. I believe someone loves an Amiga there :-)
a 2017 computer cannot run longer than 4 years on a 24/7 daily basis , it will one day cease and burn out because the little circuits are soo small and delicate , one little wire burning out would result in all error and self meltdown a 1980s computer has thick bigger circuits , and can last longer because it is thicker circuits and are made very well since back then things werent made crappy sure the 1980s computer isnt as powerful as the modern tech computer of today , but you do not need an einstein to run a freak'n network a.c./heating unit
It's been kicking for 30 years nonstop and it still works. Wait until it dies (if that ever happens) before replacing it, or they might find themselves with a piece of shit embedded system that crashes and gets viruses 6 out of every 7 days a week.
I don't get why people want to replace things just because they're "old". Especially computers. That lovely Commodore will last forever if maintained properly, unlike overcomplicated modern PCs. Also that AmigaOS is million times more stable than bull$hit Windows. Why would you replace something good with something overcomplicated and less stable one that would require reboot every few weeks?
If it stops working, then could they just manually turn on the heating system without the computer while it's out of service? Either way, the news seems to somewhat antagonize everything they see, especially something that's unique and still works. If they buy a new computer for heating, they could just put this computer in the library and have classes for coding with the more trustworthy, respectful students. It be fun. But these news reporters look like they want it out of their sight.
Of course it still works. It's from Commodore! If it keeps working, why be in a rush to replace it? Anything modern will just crash and need regular software upgrades anyway (at additional cost to taxpayers).
So guy saves school district thousands of dollars by using the same computer system for 20-30 years where most probably have upgraded at least 4 or 5 times in that span and people are bugging him about it? Dude needs a promotion for reducing unnecessary spending.
***** It wasn't mis-managed at all. I have read a lot about this particular Amiga system, it was set up fantastically to begin with and is doing something that many institutions didn't have in place until much much later. A well built system can last 30 years no problem. Personally I would rather have asbestos removed from a building over a new 19 site hvac control.
Casey Corr He explained why it was a problem. System is 30 years old. Becoming too hard and expensive to find people that can repair it or make changes to it... What if another school is needed. Further, every day it runs puts it closer to it inevitable failure point. I may work fine... But that doesn't preclude a better system replacing it. Think of the time and training required to operate a system that is this old.
Why do you need to pass a bond when a $100 computer could out perform that 30 year old machine? Have all the teachers in the district pay less than $1. Problem solved.
175 mil dollars, highlighted through the need for a 50$ component (not a new computer system) - Education, Aerospace industry, Construction, and nearly all government contract work; all fields which are highly funded and heavily abused. i have worked first hand in a few of these fields and am familiar with the misuse of funds (in the lower echelons) and im sure the same mentality for abuse is present higher up. May not be embezzling cash but using work credit cards and other assets for personal use, investing in unneeded and frivolous things like brand new vehicles, and even charging for overtime that was never worked - all regularly practiced things in each of the previous said fields that add up immensely.
Ok.. You need a bill passed to replace an Amiga 2000?? You can get that amount of computing power today out of a Raspberry Pi (X about 1000) and monitors start around $90. Literally, for $300 in parts you could put together a new, superior system. Why don't they just have all the teachers from those schools each chip in $6 and there's your new machine....
Garpenlov Port... right... because it wouldn't be easier to just program with new software from scratch? Come on dude. This is a small network of schools. A savvy person could get modern software and networking setup to run this stuff in 48 hours. The hardware needn't cost more than $300. even less if you take the very viable route of buying used. Mind you, due to the nature of the hardware and the fact that HW from that era tends to last forever, there may be no need to upgrade for several years yet. Computers built at the very beginning of transistor technology back in the 50s and 60s still work today, let alone mid to late 80s tech. Also, if I can further speak to your "porting algos" comment, you are aware that this could be run on an emulator on a cheap windows machine with no need to port anything, right? Just has to be done smart. Cheers and happy computing fellow nerd.
+Pablo Escobar emulating the software is easy, it has been done multiple times before, and will do so reliably. Emulating the communications hardware which mind you, at the time time did not have a full standard yet (commodore had their unique quirks with port protocols) Was unsuccessful according to the IT person responsible for keeping this outdated system alive. The cheapest thing here would be to simply replace the controller boards and all of its communication systems to newer hardware and drop the old RF transmitters completely. You do not take in account the cost of an average certified programmer, IT crew and labor for a single day. (Hint for the programmer, 600 usd a day is considered underpaid.) Big organizations such a school districts will not pick an average tech savvy to reliably install a system like this, nor do they have control over who they pick most of the time.
Why the hell couldn't they be bothered to take $200 out of their budget for this? If a 20+ year old computer can run the system a new budget pc can more than meet their needs. It takes a 100 million dollar millage for them to think about replacing it?
Sturrmm The guy who maintains the system went into great detail on why this won't work. Leaving out many details.......1) it's not the computer that costs a lot, it's the remote equipment. 2) new software needs to be written. a Windows PC won't run Amiga code (and yes they thought about emulation, if you run emulation they can't get it to "Talk" to the system, I think it had to do with "serial protocols" or something). 3) A student set up the system in the 80's, he still comes over and fixes it when they have problems, what happens if he moves to another state or gets hit by a bus? 4) Do you think they would let a student set up the system today? Think lawsuits. So, no $200 computer, no $30 Rasberry Pi, or $5000 Mac Pro can simply replace a 1987 Amiga 2000. I know it's fun to laugh at people, but there are people who work on this system who know just a little more than we do.
ChurchofVirus In the video they mentioned how it powers a lot of different schools and how their radios interfere so I think it is networked in some way... But in general there are many archaic systems out there that power important things and no money go into them because "They are still running."
***** This is probably using one of the lower ISM bands at lo power. Maybe they are using some encryption, maybe not. Theoretically somebody could mess with that system, but to do this, he would need to work in the range of transmitter. And also special interface would be needed. And it wouldn't be Amiga's fault, if he succeeded.
So what the report is trying to say is replace the machine with something that would have been a super computer 30 years ago. Imagine if they used a Cray circa 1985 just to manage ac systems? Also, I imagine the Amiga is far more solid and stable than just about anything you can get today. And why stop at the computer? Wouldn't they need to replace the equaly old radio modem too?
Replace it with a new HP tomorrow and it'll crash in a week.
kant "Replace it with a new HP tomorrow and it'll crash tomorrow" FTFY
citizenchan
ha you're probably right
kant firmware firmware firmware! :-/
Kris C Commodore doesn't have EEPROM so you can't actually update the firmware.
Ilan D Sure you can! You just have to disassemble the amiga, pull out the socketed EPROM chips, erase them with UV light, get out your trusty EPROM programmer and write new code to the chips and hope you get it all back together with no bent or broken pins on the chips. Easy! :)
The guy is like, "Seriously, you are really trying to make this bad when it really isn't."
until the system goes kaput.
@@GiordanDiodato You cant kill an amiga 2000. I have one and its very easy to work on or get spare parts. Just make a copy of the program running the thing and reinstall it on a SD card using a scsi/ide adapter, the end
@@querty945 They could of easily kept it going 30 more years with a few spare parts. nothing for a2000 is hard to find.
Right off the bat they make it sound like it's a really negative thing that they haven't replaced it yet.
If shit ain't broke...
SponzifyMee well, they do have issues with RF interference, so I can understand why they are worried.
SponzifyMee They said that it has broken multiple times before, and the parts are getting harder and harder to find. What if it breaks in the middle of a particularly bad winter?
Cloak and Dagger Gaming then you go to the local bestbuy. : P I don't see anything wrong with it.
JuggleAddict
It's a commodore Amiga, made in the late 80s-early/mid 90s. Like they said in the video, they can only find the parts on Ebay.
Cloak and Dagger Gaming ebay, you mean
The news is inferring that a computer that controls heating and cooling is more important than getting things that could kill the kids out of buildings, not like the district has much cooling in the first place, most school districts in Michigan only have heating.
removing asbestos > replacing old (but working) computer
yup... sounds about right. keep up the good work, dude in yellow shirt
that news lady is a knucklehead
If it still works, why replace it?
Our own little 3d world That's like asking why replace a car with 1 million miles on it. It might work right now in this moment, but do you want to have to rely on such an old worn out car?
Our own little 3d world Because in case of hardware failure, they'd have a big problem. Also, I'm guessing just maintenaning the system is an issue. What if you need to alter some functionality? Switching to a brand new standard system running on new hardware, will pay it self back in the long run.
Plank Hill Do you know how much a car costs? If an old car still works, I'm going to keep using it for the simple fact that it does amazingly well at getting me from point A to point B.
Zeboath If it comes to that point, then their computer wouldn't work with the new stuff anyways and they'll have to get a new one, but until then, it still works.
***** Yeah, and it still works, why replace it? It's that old saying, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Why bother getting a more expensive computer when a cheap one will still do.
Besides the Amiga is anyone else impressed that the monitor still appears to be in decent working condition after 30 years? (It's a C64 monitor / model 1702 so at least 30 yrs old).
73mathesar Not really. Those monitors are/were pretty awesome. Circa 2000 I used them on my VHS edit stations because they were cheap workhorses. I still have one that works for retro gaming.
Towards the end of the interview reporter asks what would happen if it stopped working tomorrow. He said probably EBay, where we got this one; so it isn't the same computer
Eric Dawson I guess they don't make them like they used to, All of my PC CRT's were replaced due to failure after 3-6 years of use lol, the longest lasting was a Sony FW900 , it lasted 8 years before the flyback transformer failed.
73mathesar "Parts for the computer are difficult to find, Hopkins said. It is on its second mouse and third monitor." - woodtv.com/2015/06/11/1980s-computer-controls-grps-heat-and-ac/
73mathesar They probably turn it on only rarely.
As much as I love seeing the capabilities of new tech, I enjoy seeing old tech being put to good use and standing the test of time. Still, this system should no doubt be replaced at some point, as I doubt there's much support for it if there is a problem. That said, they've surely made the right decision to prioritise the removal of asbestos and other harmful substances!
yeah and maybe donate the system to a museum.
Well, if my 26-year-old Amiga 500 still runs like it did on the day I got it, then why should that (almost) 30-year-old Amiga 2000 stop working anytime soon? Remember that Amigas are beings of inner calm and strength - they achive extraordinary longevity through "Guru Mediation".
Note: It can't actually be 30 years old, since the A2000 didn't come out until 1987
a 2017 computer cannot run longer than 4 years on a 24/7 daily basis , it will one day cease and burn out because the little circuits are soo small and delicate , one little wire burning out would result in all error and self meltdown
a 1980s computer has thick bigger circuits , and can last longer because it is thicker circuits and are made very well since back then things werent made crappy
sure the 1980s computer isnt as powerful as the modern tech computer of today , but you do not need an einstein to run a freak'n network a.c./heating unit
AND MY FUCKIN 2007 XBOX BURNED IN 2 YEARS
Laz3rSharkz Except that this is an Amiga, not a PC. This is just one of many reasons why the world would be a better place if the Amiga became the dominant platform, and not Windows PCs.
Jerri Kohl the amiga is by definition a Personal Computer, aka a PC. just like mac, windows pc, IBM, ect.
LE REDDIT COMMANDER I read on the internet that there are rocks for free in the outside world !
maybe someone can confirm.
***** Seriously speaking, a good PC is more reliable than a PS4, which will probably break in a few years (not all of them, just a greater amount than PC's).
The Xbox 360 had a factory design flaw in the chip that was only patched in late 2008
What they should do going forward is use the same model of computer as the school's computer labs which, being front line student-facing educational tools, should be replaced sooner and provide an on-hand parts backup for the back-end equipment like this.
do not replace this! it saves you so much money and is fine.
They have a perfectly fine computer standing right next to that commodore. Why dont they just use that?
still better than a mac
I love how this 1980's Amiga 2000 is still controlling 19 school buildings over radio modem - this is like WiFi just 20 years earlier.
1) Regarding radio interference: every public RF frequency has interference, even WiFi has algorithm how to change channel to avoid sharing multiple SSID on it.
2) Just do not use walkies talkies at that Amiga's RF frequency and Amiga can live for another 30 years.
3) Keep Amiga running. Space satellites use 386 and 486 processors even today (big transistors are reliable, in space mostly against cosmic radiation).
Someone once told me when I started to work in maintenance:
"If is not broken, don't fix it!!"
The games machine i bought with 8 GB memory, 3GB graphics card and an Quad Core Athlon processor and 2 x 256 GB SSDs - worked for 5 years. Same with all PCs and laptops i bought since 1996. Except the latest gaming laptop and a netbook that still work.
The Amiga 1000 i bought- still works.
The Amiga 4000 i bought - still works.
The Amiga 1200 i bought - still works.
The Commodore 128D i bought - still works.
My C64's (plural) i bought - still works.
Only ones showing a problem is one C64 and a Vic 20 that need repairs.
Granted, all of them needs capacitors replaced and the potentially leaking batteries have been removed in the Amiga 4000 and 1200 (it's accelerator card had one) but after a recap, all of the Amigas can continue to chug along for another 30 years.
Isn't there some real news you could cover?
Average Joe The districts heating and AC is on a computer from the 80s. Where's the money going? Local news is pretty important.
Shanie MyrsTear Replacing boilers and removing asbestos? like they said in the video? /ff
Shanie MyrsTear
Removal of asbestos, updated boilers and heat pipes, insulation upgrades -- all of those things are more important than what is effectively a thermostat controller. You could control the district's HVAC from an ipad and setup remote login access for under 50,000... not sure why they're asking for this humongous grant.
TheConstantComet It's called "ask for the sun and get the moon" haha.
TheConstantComet and you're also forgetting they've already recieved 170 million and didn't fix the problem then, so they seem to have designed their own failure
Why replace this system? Sounds like it works great.
What did they do with that old computer in the UA-cam video?
The upgrade of this system should only really cost sub $1000. Rasberry Pi in each school and then a host server and some simple scripts.
- BossMann -
Equipment is cheap. Paying someone $200 an hour to setup the system is expensive. Further, Rasberry Pi's don't always and pretty much don't have the software to manage HVAC systems. This isn't just some simple SMTP thing.
Further, the real money is on the support contracts as well. Who gets a call when shiznits really broken.
- BossMann - first person that can see the future
- BossMann - Replacement system will cost about $250K+. You will need to update each one of the 19 schools at about $10K ea. and the central system for about $30K or so. Add documentation, training and support for another$30K.
This isn't alos there only project on the referendum.
- BossMann - The computer is not the cost, it's the software and installation/configuration that runs tens of thousands of dollars if not more.
Wow,back in the day,I would have given my eye-teeth for an Amiga,or even a Commodore 64.How times change.
How long will it keep running? That thing isn't going to stop running. That was built to last, before commercialization took a big hold on us.
Actually that Amiga 2000 computer was most likely purchased in 1987-1988 as the Amiga 2000 was first released in 1987 and was a higher end business oriented computer at the time as it had the best inbuilt visual and sound capabilities of any PC at the time which wasn’t a really large workstation computer.
That reporter's hair would bug me if she was on my local news.
At the end of the video he said they bought it off eBay, so the configuration has stayed the same for thirty years - but it is not the same computer.
A 1980's Commodore PC, running 24/7 for the last 30 years, has been controlling the heat and a/c for the entire Grand Rapids, Michigan school district.
It's just not expensive and unreliable enough. It simply HAS to be replaced!
I picture some dude at this computer entering a string of numbers every 108 minutes to avoid a catastrophe.
And did I miss something? The computer is 30 years old, and the guy said they bought it on ebay, and ebay didn't exist until 1995. So they either bought the computer when it was at least a decade old, or this guy doesn't know what he's talking about (or is lying).
jetboy33 I think he meant replacement parts, etc.
jetboy33 LOL you don't compute dialogue well do you ? They asked them what they would do in a scenario where the PC fails he told them Ebay. wtf
FrequencyOfThought Go to 1:55 where he clearly states "We look for ebay...which is where this one came from."
jetboy33 Only a few seconds later they clarify that this was for parts.
***** LOL hes obviously right.
I've seen things... you people wouldn't believe. School buses on fire off the shoulder of Orion; I watched C students glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate... All those moments… will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
Time to die.
I don't understand what's wrong with using that if it still works. Why exactly would you need something else?
"Live In Studio Control", a more proffesional way of saying "Live from the room next door because we either don't have a satellite truck or just wanted to make it seem better than having her sit next to us in the studio"
keept that Commodore alive!
funniest things about vintage electronics is that it often contains precious metals (gold, palladium etc,) that makes scrap worth many times that its current value.
Just buy a Raspberry Pi, it's like $30 and probably several times faster than the other one
Blender Addict sure, you going to port algos and run MTBF, PIDL loops?
Blender Addict It's not as reliable. I have been working on a HVAC automation project with a Raspberry Pi and I replaced it after a few months because of reliability issues. I used a very old Dell laptop which has been working OK for 3+ years and still going strong (I just replaced the original HDD with a SSD)
Blender Addict "Faster" isn't that important when the computer just sends a radio signal to turn the A/C on or off a couple times a day. As a rule of thumb, if you could do the job with a person driving between buildings turning a light switch on and off, you don't really need transistors that can change state several million times per second. :D
I'm waiting for somewhere, somehow, someone wrote a cartage for an 8 bit Nintendo (NES) that somehow controlled something similar.
Just get an rapsberry for 30$...
d ch sure, you going to port algos and run MTBF, PIDL loops?
whatismindnomatter Now when i think about it, it's linux machine, this can be actually pretty much portable. And i doubt that those things are that complex that someone with some practice in scripting would not write that in short time.
I find it hard to believe that their maintenance department uses walkie talkies that use the same frequencies the computer uses. They said the Computer sends commands using "Shortwave" frequencies which is commonly referred as the HF or High frequency spectrum of the bands and no company or maintenance organization would use HF for their operation. VHF maybe or even UHF. HF or shortwave is never used for operations like that (too noisy and short range in the daytime)
It's honestly probably more reliable than most modern systems. If it's not broken, don't fix it.
if he recapped the machine, itll run for 30 more years.
probably.
old machine doesnt have planned obsolescence
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
If they don't want it, I'll take it
The funny thing that old Amiga is probably still more reliable and secure then the Macintosh, HP or Dell they'll replace it with.
As an IT guy, this made my butthole pucker up to the point where it could have sliced a carrot in half if it was up there
Just run to Home Depot and get some programmable thermostats.
He bought it from eBay 30 years ago?
Amazing!!!
If it works, why replace it?
I'd be happy to replace this with a $35 Raspberry Pi. Just send me a plane ticket.
It works. So what's the problem?
175 millions to replace a commodore?? WTF? We all knew govenment are inefficient but the government spending has gone crazy at this point.
Neavris The computer is not the cost, it's the software and installation/configuration that runs tens of thousands of dollars if not more. The bill doesn't just for the computer. Renovation and updating of school has much higher priority.
that screen must be really really burnt in to that crt :D
They probably already replaced everything with a $25 programmable thermostat and turned off the computer, but that display keeps showing "status: ok" when the monitor alone is turned on. :)
haha, true.
It will haunt the school staff for years to come.
the hard drive... *shows image of the case*
They should replace this with a Raspberry Pi and a IoT board.
amiga 2000 was launched in 1987 so its only 28.:-)
I have several I can sell them for a premium. All mine still work great. a 500, 3000T x 2 and 4 2000's.
I wonder if they get an emulation program on a pc, they can continue to run their amiga program for years to come.
If they replace it with Windows the entire school district will burn down in 12 hours.
"ebay, where this one came from"
So - it HAS in fact NOT been running for 30 years, 24/7 like these "reporters" said. It has in fact been replaced at least once. Maybe the reporters think eBay was around 30 years ago - before the world wide web. Then again, they showed a TV ad for a Commodore 64 in this story about an Amiga 2000, so WTF do they know?
Also - why is it the default position of the news reporters that replacing a 30 year old computer is somehow wasteful spending - or rather, NOT replacing it means money must have been wasted elsewhere? Why must everything be approached cynically?
They could replace it with a "raspberry" pi,with a few add-ons.Program it in assembler,maybe,instead of "basic".
In the last sentence he says its from ebay. lol
I guess its not the original from 30 years ago after all.
So what? The furnaces themselves have probably been running for 50 years.
Been running for 30 years but he bought it from ebay???
WizzleThump Replacement parts were purchased on eBay. If it breaks again they will have to find parts on eBay again.
No he gets the parts from eBay if something breaks.
175 million bond is the only way they can fix a 1000 dollar problem. If it was that big a deal each school could have kicked in 50 dollars and it would be fixed.
LookForThetruth11 This is not a $1000 problem. They are looking to replace the entire outdated control system, not just the 80's computer that runs it.
LookForThetruth11 You misunderstand. It's not just the computer that needs to be replaced. It's a 19 site infrastructure of hvac controls. I just had a partial replacment done on a single three floor office building for the tune of $30k.
at the end 1:57 he says " we look for ebay, which is where this one came form" So this is a bit confusing. Did he buy that A2000 from eBay? I'm guessing maybe the previous A2000 died and they bought another one? How come this has been running for decades now? This news program is a bit misleading I guess. Also I believe they can easily replace it with a Raspberry Pi. They can still run that automation program on an Amiga emulator on a Pi and still attach that radio device. I believe someone loves an Amiga there :-)
I have two Commodore computers, one of them has never been used, that I would let go pretty cheap. ;^)
Slow news day huh. That reporter has manly features on her face.
true mvp
Commodore Master Race!
Never change a running system
Hacker proof.
Shame that everything breaks in before the warranty expires now, PROGRESS AMIRITE
The new "hard drive" (wtf?) will break.
He said that he got that Commador from Ebay............... Ebay 1995
a 2017 computer cannot run longer than 4 years on a 24/7 daily basis , it will one day cease and burn out because the little circuits are soo small and delicate , one little wire burning out would result in all error and self meltdown
a 1980s computer has thick bigger circuits , and can last longer because it is thicker circuits and are made very well since back then things werent made crappy
sure the 1980s computer isnt as powerful as the modern tech computer of today , but you do not need an einstein to run a freak'n network a.c./heating unit
It's been kicking for 30 years nonstop and it still works. Wait until it dies (if that ever happens) before replacing it, or they might find themselves with a piece of shit embedded system that crashes and gets viruses 6 out of every 7 days a week.
Amiga forever ! never more true
Why fix what isn't broken?!
Good for them. I'd trust and Amiga over just about anything new.
I don't get why people want to replace things just because they're "old". Especially computers. That lovely Commodore will last forever if maintained properly, unlike overcomplicated modern PCs.
Also that AmigaOS is million times more stable than bull$hit Windows. Why would you replace something good with something overcomplicated and less stable one that would require reboot every few weeks?
If it stops working, then could they just manually turn on the heating system without the computer while it's out of service? Either way, the news seems to somewhat antagonize everything they see, especially something that's unique and still works. If they buy a new computer for heating, they could just put this computer in the library and have classes for coding with the more trustworthy, respectful students. It be fun. But these news reporters look like they want it out of their sight.
Get a bunch of Nests. Problem solved for 175 million less than they are asking for.
"The hard drive"... WHY??!?!
Of course it still works. It's from Commodore! If it keeps working, why be in a rush to replace it? Anything modern will just crash and need regular software upgrades anyway (at additional cost to taxpayers).
So guy saves school district thousands of dollars by using the same computer system for 20-30 years where most probably have upgraded at least 4 or 5 times in that span and people are bugging him about it? Dude needs a promotion for reducing unnecessary spending.
Why do they keep giving these schools bonds if the money is so mis-managed? Some "community organizer" somewhere is laughing up his sleeve.
***** It wasn't mis-managed at all. I have read a lot about this particular Amiga system, it was set up fantastically to begin with and is doing something that many institutions didn't have in place until much much later. A well built system can last 30 years no problem. Personally I would rather have asbestos removed from a building over a new 19 site hvac control.
***** ... I think replacing something that is working fine would be mismanagement.
***** I wouldnt say that replacing/removing boilers and asbestos(you know that causes mesothelioma) mismanagement of funds.
Casey Corr He explained why it was a problem. System is 30 years old. Becoming too hard and expensive to find people that can repair it or make changes to it... What if another school is needed. Further, every day it runs puts it closer to it inevitable failure point.
I may work fine... But that doesn't preclude a better system replacing it. Think of the time and training required to operate a system that is this old.
Jafro do you by chance browse reddit?
That recording of that signal was no ISM signal, it was airplane ACARS. If you're going to record a signal, do it with something real.
Why do you need to pass a bond when a $100 computer could out perform that 30 year old machine?
Have all the teachers in the district pay less than $1. Problem solved.
How about some raspberry pi ? For fucking twenty dollars ?
David Novák Been there, done that. A Raspberry Pi is not reliable enough, I've tried, for a HVAC monitoring system.
keep computer , its cool
175 mil dollars, highlighted through the need for a 50$ component (not a new computer system) - Education, Aerospace industry, Construction, and nearly all government contract work; all fields which are highly funded and heavily abused. i have worked first hand in a few of these fields and am familiar with the misuse of funds (in the lower echelons) and im sure the same mentality for abuse is present higher up.
May not be embezzling cash but using work credit cards and other assets for personal use, investing in unneeded and frivolous things like brand new vehicles, and even charging for overtime that was never worked - all regularly practiced things in each of the previous said fields that add up immensely.
Ok.. You need a bill passed to replace an Amiga 2000?? You can get that amount of computing power today out of a Raspberry Pi (X about 1000) and monitors start around $90. Literally, for $300 in parts you could put together a new, superior system. Why don't they just have all the teachers from those schools each chip in $6 and there's your new machine....
+Pablo Escobar as another commenter said "sure, you going to port algos and run MTBF, PIDL loops?"
Garpenlov Port... right... because it wouldn't be easier to just program with new software from scratch? Come on dude. This is a small network of schools. A savvy person could get modern software and networking setup to run this stuff in 48 hours. The hardware needn't cost more than $300. even less if you take the very viable route of buying used. Mind you, due to the nature of the hardware and the fact that HW from that era tends to last forever, there may be no need to upgrade for several years yet. Computers built at the very beginning of transistor technology back in the 50s and 60s still work today, let alone mid to late 80s tech.
Also, if I can further speak to your "porting algos" comment, you are aware that this could be run on an emulator on a cheap windows machine with no need to port anything, right? Just has to be done smart. Cheers and happy computing fellow nerd.
+Pablo Escobar
emulating the software is easy, it has been done multiple times before,
and will do so reliably. Emulating the communications hardware which
mind you, at the time time did not have a full standard yet (commodore
had their unique quirks with port protocols) Was unsuccessful according
to the IT person responsible for keeping this outdated system alive.
The
cheapest thing here would be to simply replace the controller boards
and all of its communication systems to newer hardware and drop the old
RF transmitters completely.
You do not take in account the cost
of an average certified programmer, IT crew and labor for a single day.
(Hint for the programmer, 600 usd a day is considered underpaid.) Big
organizations such a school districts will not pick an average tech
savvy to reliably install a system like this, nor do they have control
over who they pick most of the time.
Lol i'll give them my old phone if they really need it.
Why the hell couldn't they be bothered to take $200 out of their budget for this? If a 20+ year old computer can run the system a new budget pc can more than meet their needs. It takes a 100 million dollar millage for them to think about replacing it?
Sturrmm The guy who maintains the system went into great detail on why this won't work. Leaving out many details.......1) it's not the computer that costs a lot, it's the remote equipment. 2) new software needs to be written. a Windows PC won't run Amiga code (and yes they thought about emulation, if you run emulation they can't get it to "Talk" to the system, I think it had to do with "serial protocols" or something). 3) A student set up the system in the 80's, he still comes over and fixes it when they have problems, what happens if he moves to another state or gets hit by a bus? 4) Do you think they would let a student set up the system today? Think lawsuits. So, no $200 computer, no $30 Rasberry Pi, or $5000 Mac Pro can simply replace a 1987 Amiga 2000. I know it's fun to laugh at people, but there are people who work on this system who know just a little more than we do.
One of those CyberSecurity Nightmares waiting to happen... #smh
***** These systems are usually not networked. No network connection, no "cybersecurity" issue.
ChurchofVirus In the video they mentioned how it powers a lot of different schools and how their radios interfere so I think it is networked in some way... But in general there are many archaic systems out there that power important things and no money go into them because "They are still running."
Oh yeah, good point.
*****
Since it is not hooked to the Internet it's actually more secure then a system that is controlled over the internet would be.
***** This is probably using one of the lower ISM bands at lo power. Maybe they are using some encryption, maybe not. Theoretically somebody could mess with that system, but to do this, he would need to work in the range of transmitter. And also special interface would be needed. And it wouldn't be Amiga's fault, if he succeeded.
So what the report is trying to say is replace the machine with something that would have been a super computer 30 years ago. Imagine if they used a Cray circa 1985 just to manage ac systems? Also, I imagine the Amiga is far more solid and stable than just about anything you can get today. And why stop at the computer? Wouldn't they need to replace the equaly old radio modem too?
If it does a good job then who gives a flying fuck how old it is.
exactly
Give it to me when it's replaced lol
Can it run GTA V??
+Brady Battlefield no.... But who gives a crap?
wouldn´t a linux-machine make sense?
get an alienware