BYU Professor Loses Her Faith - Louisa Killian Pt. 1 | Ep. 1698
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- Опубліковано 1 сер 2024
- Content warning: brief mention of suicidality
After her marriage to a "worthy" priesthood-holding Returned Missionary goes south when her husband is arrested for fraud, Louisa Killian finds love & equality in a relationship outside of the Church and a fulfilling career teaching dance at BYU. But when it's time to renew her Temple Recommend to keep her ecclesiastical endorsement (a requirement for employment at the Church school), Louisa finds that honesty has severe consequences.
www.louisakillian.com
Chapters:
00:00:00 Introduction
00:06:00 Beginning of Louisa’s story
00:10:30 Adolescence, Obedience, and “Rebelliousness”
00:16:40 Dealing with death, grief, and loss of loss of her father
00:26:00 Feeling the hustle of all the things that she “should” do
00:36:30 Getting married and warning signs
00:51:00 When things started to go wrong
01:10:30 From U of U to BYU, the Second Bomb drops, marriage ends
01:19:10 Finding meaning in creativity in choreography
01:21:15 Getting hired at Snow College and BYU
01:32:15 Losing faith at BYU, getting married a 2nd time
01:44:00 Watching documentaries about sociopaths, cults
01:46:00 Dealing with conflict between eroding faith and BYU faculty position
01:59:30 Deciding to be honest with Mormon bishop & given a 90-day ultimatum
Episode Show Notes: mormonstories.org/podcast/byu...
Losing Faith as a BYU Professor - Louisa Killian Pt. 2 | Ep. 1699
• Losing Faith as a BYU ...
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I was one of your students at BYU Louisa, and I got so much out of your class! Hands down one of my favorite professors at BYU, especially as a non-member student. You made an incredibly difficult experience bearable for me.You're amazing and so strong!
Thank you so much Susana! I'm so happy you felt accepted in my classes. Dance definitely helps us cope with struggles. I hope you are doing well!
Interesting that LDS people have the answers in prayer… I am not LDS but spiritual and never find answers in prayer, EVER.
@@Blonde111 is it their believe system. Have faith and you will see God manifest in your life.
@@Blonde111 The LDS belief system gives you permission to believe in your own confirmation bias by calling it the spirit.
@@weeza8739 So touched by your honesty. You are more than worthy and it is BYU's loss. Sending hugs and blessings.
I am loving Margie on the recent podcasts. It’s so important to have a woman’s voice that is equal to the men’s voices on the podcast.
Yes!
Agree! Margie is so thoughtful and wise.
I REALLY like this combination of John steering the interview and asking questions that move the narrative along and the Margie asking those incredibly thought provoking questions on emotional aspects of the narrative. Just so amazingly balanced. Not to mention Louisa interview VERY well.
Margie is so talented. Worried that the podcast can be too much sometimes for both of them, hope they’re doing ok, sending much love from the audience (and Cypress TX I heard you grew up in Katy John!)
Completely agree
When I first found Mormon stories podcast I was like there is no way I can sit through 3 hours of an interview... Like no way.... 2 years later I'll be like why is this interview only 3 hours I need more time... The interviews be so good & thought-provoking, I'm a never Mormon, I consider myself I recovering Catholic (Don't tell my grandparents..lol) But I just love these Mormon story podcast interviews, keep up the good work John and the rest of the team💯💯💯
Me too! I like 4+ hours!!!! 🤣 Mormon Stories is perfect!
Just what is a recovering Catholic?
I didn’t think so either but here I am on my lunch break listening!
Same!!
1.5 speed is a game changer
I listen to Margie talk, there are moments when her voice, her questions come across like a verbal hug. This interview was full of those verbal hugs. Definitely a perfect co-host ❤
Sometimes too much self confidence becomes uninteresting.
I grew up in a church where men ruled supreme, and just as she said, your whole life, you need a man to validate everything. No woman is allowed to be a priest, elder, prophet, or Apostle in my childhood church. It's funny that women are the most active members I that church, but they still have no voice. Women were the coffee makers and dishwashers, and they were there to take care of the children. The moment you got married, you were expected to become silent in the church. You have to speak and make requests through your husband. I married a man outside my faith, which is acceptable as long as you convert him. If you don't, the church will do their best to convert your partner. With the preparation of our wedding, I was told to be silent and allow my fiancé to answer all questions asked as a couple. That made me look at the church I loved and put everything in as a child, youth, and my whole 20s. It took me another 20 years to break off 100%. My heart wasn't in it, but it's difficult to let go. No thanks, no religion for me. It's all man made mumbo-jumbo. If I can't be seen as a person and a soul on my own, then you tell me Im not worthy.
Yes, it is so sad. There are so many positive things about being in a community...but sadly the treatment of women as being fovever not enough to be an equal is not sustainable. ❤
The church has the longest running independently run female organization. It technically stopped while the pioneers traveled to Utah but if u count when It started till now it is the longest run female independently run organization in the world. I would say that gives them a significant voice. And they give talks in general conference which is the biggest speaking event in the church🤷♂️
Btw the organization is called relief society/young women.
"For the safety of the students" was the same reason I was released from my Priest Quorum advisor calling. I love those boys and I loved teaching them because I felt like it was my opportunity to protect them from the pain I was dealt by the church at their age. I adhered to the manual and followed the rules, and even then there was no room in the church for someone who has doubts about their faith. The day I was released was the last day I attended church.
So disappointing . Those you big people needed you.
That is exactly what Satan wanted you to do.
@@bethkelly9206 either satan is secretly the good guy or he’s God’s controlled opposition. Unless god isn’t omnipotent.
IMO - Why would a spiritual leader tell a wife to stay in a potentially dangerous marriage where a partner has some serious mental issues? I do not understand that thinking one bit. From a non Mormon's view it seems that unqualified leaders are telling their members to stay in unhealthy situations that are unsafe.
Wow, she is very sharp and well spoken. Loved listening to her story.
So many same feelings when she’s talking about her ex. I was abused in every way from my ex and it truly shattered my trust in the church. From all the promises that was made to me my whole life, and my returned missionary, married in the temple husband beat me. But I still fought for him because we were sealed… and the counselors… don’t get me started on them!!!
I’m so sorry for your experience ❤
So sorry for you Steph! You are brave and your story is valid. I hope you are in a better place now. - Louisa
❤
I love Margie. John, thank you for honoring the voices of the women in you life and those that are around you. I’m a never Mormon, but I am learning more and more how women are so devalued by so many religions and cultures in this world. I appreciate the men that raise us up. Louisa and Margie are so beautiful and so important.
Louisa Killian is a wonderful lady.
So well-spoken and so easy to listen to.
Thank you so much for inviting her to share her experience and her insight. 🥰
I have a ton of questions.
Louisa is such a fantastic person who is so full of heart on this episode. I feel so deeply for her and for all of the trials she’s had to overcome. She was failed time and time again by people who were supposed to be her support system, they were supposed to be on her side. I’m so glad she’s away from those people now, and that she’s hopefully healing.
The number of people you’ve had on who have left the church in 2021 is so crazy
This is a similar reason why my mother and I have a hard time with the church: we're taught and told that God loves us more than anything or anyone. That He only wants what's best for us, but if that were true, would God, who is our perfect father, judge us on whether or not we missed tithing once? Judge us on what our sexual orientation was? Our mental health? Would your perfect parent really never want to see you again if you made a mistake on a planet where you supposedly have no memory of your life before being here? I know I would NEVER kick my kids out, or want to be away from them, if they decided to live a different life than me. I love them anyway, I would want to be with them and see them anyway. But we're told if we don't live perfect lives, our perfect father will kick us out of his presence "cause it wouldn't make us comfortable" and put us somewhere else where we could never see him again.
It's confusing. It's sickening..
Thoughtful comment, only don't forget the abominable sin of drinking coffee.
Yes there is a focus on grace and forgiveness. Yet obedience is a requirement for all the blessings.
There is the requirement for perfection, but with a nuanced mentioning of forgiveness, all while living with imperfect understanding and imperfect bodies. But what really matters is your perfection. Chewed gum and used toys, when you don’t follow the rules they’ve outlined. If you decide on different answers, then you are wrong. Full stop!!
I am sipping me a cup of coffee reading this thread.
I don’t think it’s confusing but I wasn’t raised in religion. I think its all complete nonsense. I struggle to understand how anyone can nod along to the ridiculousness that is religion concepts. Its all so illogical and brainwashing like.
Absolutely powerful show. Amazing young woman. I’m sitting here stunned. I admire how she came through this. Kudos to her for sharing this. 💜💜💜
Powerful woman she could be a counselor. She’d make an outstanding Bishop.
Wow. Dr.Dehlin and his wife have truly found their calling in life helping to repair the damage the Church has done. 😭🥹🥲😌
Thank you Louisa. You’ve been through a lot in your young life. You’re definitely right about being a leader. Thanks for being so strong and sharing your story!!
I love when Louisa describes the qualities of her first husband and then her second. ❤️
The idea that "nothing bad happens in the temple" (as I've heard in lds classes), is patently untrue. Affairs, theft, lies, etc all happen even with paid temple staff. I can attest to this from personal experience.
I'm from the 70s and 80s generation. I grew up with National Geographic and Time magazine on the coffee table. I was able to read quite well when I started 1st grade. My parents sent me to an all girls Catholic school. I explained to Sister Mary that I didn't need to attend religion class because I believed in evolution. My parents were asked to remove me from the school. I ended up attending an all girl school without religious affiliation. I saw it as a compromise but, I don't know if my parents did. I attended numerous rock concerts in the 80s before lip syncing and voice overs. You got to see the entire band perform. I don't know how things would have worked out if my parents were Mormons. I was asking questions as soon as I could speak. I definitely did not fit in the box. I didn't realize how cultish the Mormon religion is.
Wow. Excellent interview. The interviewers got involved just enough to open further discussion and then let this amazing lady speak freely.
I want to give her the biggest hug and tell her I feel her pain and sadness. You are amazing and I appreciate your authenticity and being open to share your experience. Sharing helps us all heal little pieces. ♡
These stores have become an important part of my education and growth! Our history is vitally important and sharing our journeys has enriched my life in ways I never thought possible! Good work going on here! Mormon Stories has opened truth in a thoughtful and loving way- ♥️
I was an MDT student at BYU. I ***so*** wish you had been one of my professors!
If you can't question your faith without repercussions like losing your job, you are in a cult. I hope she has finally left for good. She seems torn.
Thoroughly enjoyed your interview I’m an ex Jehovah’s Witness….somewhat relatable…..I wanted to do the right thing for the right reason….hated being forced to obey for no reason…..loved your expressions about dance and writing…. The letter of the law and the spirit of it. Tons of respect for leaving it takes such courage…..wishing you peace and happiness in your life….. I hope you heal….
Louisa.. you have said “I just want and wanted to do the right thing “ many, many times you say this in this interview…is it possible, that the “right thing” isn’t the right thing you thought it was? and you are now being guided to find the right thing? There are many of us in many different faith denominations going through similar things right now and the entire world is experiencing a “Great Awakening”… sending you love and so much compassion for the pain you carry…❤
Losing one's faith, or, to put it another way, gaining the ability to think for oneself
I friended Louisa in Rexburg and I am not shocked at all by her amazing grace, kindness, devotion, determination, and general-badass-ery. I absolutely love and adore you, Louisa. Thank you for sharing such a deep, extremely vulnerable, and very difficult experiences that you had. Much love yo you. Thank you John and Margie for having such a great and wonderful person on this show. - Emily Barney
Love you Emily! Hope you are doing well.
As a non-Mormon in a state without a huge Mormon presence, I would love a video explaining the traditional path for a Mormon from birth to death. There is so much I don’t fully understand but am intellectually intrigued by.
Margie we need a quick skincare/makeup run down that you use. Your complexion is always flawless and glowing!
Thank You for sharing your story. Kind of struck home for me in many ways being a former LDS member. I fell away from the church many years ago; however I've seen my sisters get themselves into many situations because finding a former return missionary and a member of the church was the most important thing. I've also seen it with many friends and mine going through divorce and being stuck in a relationship with the man that was terrible because they believed wholeheartedly and marriage is for forever. They overlooked many good men And pick man that we're Call man I'll just let out wires deceivers. Ending up with guys that used the religion To pray on Women. Having horrible outcomes from domestic violence To finding out Is there living with a pedophile. I could go on and on about all the bad things. Instead of finding the best person possible. I wish you the best Thank you for sharing cause I think many ladies can learn from this. Especially Mormon Girls, because there are many men out there that are Deceivers and use your faith against you.
As a woman in graduate work was told by a professor that he could never ask me to work in his psychology lab or have lunch, as he did with male students, lest he be accused of impropriety. Wonder if she ran into this?
that's not unique to the church or university.. but universal... with so many lawsuits and false allegations being thrown around like candy these days men have to be extra careful who they are alone with. especially women and kids. especially if you are a manager or leader or school teacher. but yes.. im sure she ran into something similar to this. Myt foreman recently just went to lunch w a female worker and just got a union grievance filed against him because the other female workers complained it made them "uncomfortable" so he can no longer take female coworkers to lunch...only male ones.. sad world we livein.
I did not run into this during my time at BYU, but I know that it happens. I can say that my time working at the University of Utah as a Stage Manager was wonderful because I felt completely equal as a woman in the workplace, instead of being treated like a temptation. It felt so freeing to be in an environment where people were mature enough to have lunch together or meetings, regardless of sex or gender expression. I agree that we should protect ourselves and sometimes avoid one-on-one interactions, but we shouldn't use gender as an excuse to treat people differently.
I'm new to this channel, but this felt like the most genuine interview to me. It was also very educational in a lot of ways, especially around examples like you needing a male's opinion on what they thought is important in your life or how you should be feeling, like your bishop's, because "your father was no longer here to be that assurance for you". Wow. Perspective that I never thought of as a white, straight, man. Louisa, your father, if he can see from beyond, must be proud of how his first child turned out. Your honesty to yourself, friends and family, and to institutions you belong, is inspiring even though it cost you your dream job, emotional and financial distress. I wish I could be half as brave.
I left the church and lost testimony of all things of an organized religion, but still get great feelings around the teachings and deeds of the historical Jesus. And I'm much happier spiritually and emotionally, and feel way more accepting of others, whoever and however they come, than I did as an active member of the church. I also feel a bit inadequate and ungrateful saying these, because I had the luxury of not risking my entire social structure collapsing around me leaving the church as I was a convert, so it was much easier for me going through faith crisis. I knew the world pre-church membership, and during it. And now I'm back out of the bubble, though I've met and made lifelong close friends who are family to me (still active) while being a member and attending BYU. Rambling now, but my point is, let your heart guide you through life, whether to stay or leave the church. There are beautiful people inside and outside the church, and you seem to have high intellectual and emotional intelligence, as well as tough life experiences, to discern noise from meaningful relationships and experiences. Best wishes!
Thank you so much for this comment. I so appreciate your kindness and perspective. I hope my dad would be proud! You are very generous to share. - Louisa
How is that even legal? Doesn’t it go against every employment and discrimination law?!? Wtf?!
They've got people in every political and legal institution state wide in a few states
Thank you for your integrity and authenticity. Freedom of intellect is greater than faith.
When you think about it that sentence is so weird losing your faith. How about finding the truth? Anyway, keep it up brother great job.!😊
I'm struck by how, in the eyes of the one bishop and the therapist, that Louisa's marriage seemed to be valued over her own welfare. In the church it seems also, that a good women is not enough, and a man who lacks integrity is valued more than she is. I am speaking generally here. John and Margie, I really appreciate your taking your time to do these long interviews. There is so much more that comes out in this format, that one can reflect on in one's own life. I love that Louisa mentioned that the church helped teach her integrity and that her integrity helped her to exercise the strength to be honest. I have chosen similarly. I can only imagine the Holy blowback on those church leaders who callously choose obedience over Truth and truly loving the ones in their charge. Thank you Louisa.
One of the biggest reasons while I am out of the church is the conditional love that it only shows that it is a members only church institutions that it shows and its members no and one else counts unless you belong to the club. It claims to only have high standards but it shows that it and its members of its own exclusiveness of having double standards of hypocrisy.
The need for the male role and the way it unfolds starts from the cradle.
I’m listening to her share about how challenging it is to make life altering decisions reminds me of what @Byron Katie would say: whatever decision made is just another story. Any story that is not the source of peace, one questions those thoughts.
Thanks for your courage Louisa..you have with this interview made the difference you hoped for ❤
Wow! Really good guys. Beautiful courage and honesty. Thank you
Such straight talking (without the cutesy talk) is the most helpful kind and so this was definitely helpful. Thank you.
Thank you Louisa for sharing your very personal experiences! You have been so brave! Sadly, the LDS church doesn't care about your honesty and integrity when it threatens them🙄
Freakin love that 'flipping the tie' exchange and the folks that can and will do that.
Of all the podcasts I've watched here, this is by far the most heartbreaking for me. I don't even have words to describe how I want to just cry with her. The way the floor fell out for her, and how long the free fall is, and where the hell is the bottom ever going to be ... when the safety net that you were promised is a lie, and there's nothing to catch you ... I remember making decisions myself--not as cosmic as the ones required by Louisa, however--that were offered as a sacrifice, "I will do as you ask, even though I am not seeing at all why what you're asking is right, because I believe in obedience and I trust my Savior", and then finding that NOTHING good came from that obedience--just more heartache. I remember the dissonance of expecting the best, most honest, and safest people to be inside the fold, but then having to face that lie when I discovered the honest, trustworthy souls were on the outside. The one thing I have that I can promise, Louisa, is that as you embrace what IS true, you will finally find that overwhelming joy you've been waiting for.
Okay. Deep breathing. And then on to Part 2.
I have always found it odd that in the Mormon church, a person’s calling isn’t their own calling that they feel in their own heart to do. It’s a calling that someone tells them they are being called to do. Control, control, control.
Another amazing story that I learned things from. Your guest are so brave and the interview stule between you both is amazing. I can see how anyone needing counseling would need a counselor with knowledge of the chirch but not part of the church. Your guest seem to walk away better than how they came in ❤
margi asks wonderful questions, excellent questions. gives me, the listener, so much to think about.
Thank you for sharing your story, Louisa. As a fellow university professor, you speak to me. Also, congratulations on your marriage to Joe. I feel you. I hit the eject button on a physically and emotionally abusive relationship with an Elder's Quorum president despite pressure from the church. I'm grateful every day for the loving partnership I now have with my never-mo husband (despite the church's disapproval). Cheers to you, Louisa! Thank you so much for sharing your story. Women need to hear your message of education and trusting oneself over the church about who to marry. Thank you! Hugs!
Thank you so much! There is light at the end of the tunnel :)
She gonna get fired soon
I am only half way through, but her first husband definitely has narcissistic traits. So many words she uses to describe him. Feeling instant strong attraction(love bombing), disposable(discarded), stealing(entitlement), cruel(lacking empathy) Thank God she got out of that marriage.
Good for her! I do wish, though, that the title didn't say "losing her faith." I'd prefer "finding scientific reality," or "gaining critical thinking," or "learning what's behind the curtain."
Wonderful interview, thanks so much for sharing.
Wow, what an interview! Louisa was so articulate in explaining her story. I enjoyed listening to Margie's viewpoints, also.
I want to hug her and say 'YOU ARE WORTHY, YOU ARE MORE THAN ENOUGH'
It's a current team that Mormons fill unworthy and that's sad.
Christ came so we can be worthy and complete.
and to think there is a 'church' out there making people fill the opposite is highly troubling.
I'm not a Mormon, but her story makes me look at myself. Married into a controlling church and controlling husband who had a hard time showing empathy. On the spectrum??? So he had a massive stroke three years ago and I'm totally in control of EVERYTHING. I'm also starting to find myself and it's painful and interesting. I also said that things should work out fine because we followed the rules, so
God should bless our marriage. Lots of thinking to do.
I'm having a hard time understanding this. While BYU has the right to require adherence to its religious standards, it must still respect broader human rights principles, right? Or is the First Amendment above human rights?
Thanks to Margi, John, and the fantastic Mormon Stories Team for your compassionate & kind work! Sending love from Berlin! 🤍
It is "policy " that is doing the church in. It is policy that is pushing people away. Policy comes across as lack of compassion for the members when they have issues.
I am really enjoying the details that Louise will willing to share with us.
I didn't expect to have such a strong reaction to this. This woman did NOTHING wrong. She committed no sins, she didn't hurt anybody or share her doubts with anybody, she didn't even leave the church she just had QUESTIONS. And they kicked her out. Somebody could commit any manner of infraction, any terrible sin, and as long as they still believe and don't lose their recommend they can stay in. But you cannot even QUESTION, let alone leave. This one hurt.
Of course you aren’t supposed to question in religious communities. They are based almost completely on listen, nod and repeat. If the brainwashing was allowed to be questioned religion would die faster.
Thank U SO Much for explaining why/how u understand the reasons why girls consider abortion when trapped with an abusive partner. It happened to me after my partner Brutally Beat me Up when I was 3 months pregnant (knowing I was pregnant with his child). It’s literally impossible to explain how Unimaginably awful & traumatic that situation is.
Louisa, I love you sis. You are amaizing and I hope you'll find the only REAL Jesus
Is there anywhere we can watch Louisa’s dance or choreography? She seems like such a thoughtful person. I would love to see some of her art!
Thank you for telling us your painful story!
I don’t think members understand the feelings of betrayal inflicted by this organization. They are so used to conformity, falling in line, that people who struggle to be authentic within the church are outcasted to easily. It’s so easy to judge those who are, sometimes unwillingly, pushed out the doors, especially when they wanted to stay in 😢
Thank you Louisa. Your interview was full of intelligence and honest reflection.
Once again, I received a nugget of insight, as I always do, when I come back to this podcast for a check-in. Thanks to the MSP team, for continuing to produce this tool for radical healing and change. It doesn’t have to be perfect to be good.
One of the best interviews
I’m half way through, I feel for you so much. I “saved myself” for a psychopath, so my heart really goes out to you. I also believed that I had to leave home at 18 ….but I wasn’t ready. I got married too fast & didn’t know him. I was also encouraged to work out my marriage by multiple bishops & even a stake president…. my ex was extremely abusive. My ex ruined my kids & my family.
Thank you for being vulnerable, even though I am different in personality than you are in many ways, I can really relate to and empathize with your story.
Thank you so much Stephanie. It's so comforting (yet sad) to know that others have been through similar circumstances. It's so hard to find people who can relate!
@@weeza8739 ❤️(((HUG)))❤️
So sorry for your sadness. The God that loves me is my strength and there at these dark times. I wish I could hug you and tell you your valuable and that The God of the Bible lives you dearly. I hope you're finding healing and love where you are now. ❤
1:38 This issue!: (dictate on who to marry/love), I would die to prevent my kids from harm... Would my Heavenly Father not wish the same for me? Grieving WITH your guests, praying WITH you and your guests. Know you are not alone.
I am so proud of you, Louisa! 👍
I can relate to sooooo many of the experiences she went through and especially in her first marriage! I had so much trauma and it definitely changed me.
As I was listening to Margi I was thinking I need a Marji to talk to! I still carry so much grief and sadness.
Marji sounds like you are talking to a supportive therapist. She uses lots of MI when talking.
grateful for this episode
I sympathize with this wonderful person. Quite a journey. So sorry she lost a job she loved. Glad she has Joe.
Shakespeare's quote rings true: “This above all: to thine own self be true. And it must follow, as the night the day.
Thou canst not then be false to any man/Farewell, my blessing season this in thee!” (Act I, Scene III of Hamlet)
Louisa is a beautiful person and the church is an absolute monster. It is so unhealthy and fosters horrible horrible nightmarish behavior in people. What a disgusting way to throw somebody to the curb for being honest and human and wanting to do the right thing and labeling them a danger and “telestial.” That made me so angry. As an alumni I can’t wait until BYU is shut down for being a bigoted horrible institution.
It perplexes and fascinates me how micron-thin a religious (university's) leadership's conviction of their professed religion, faith, teachings, and prophet truly is. They are so threatened by budding doubts and questions of a young professor seeking guidance and direction in their quest for truth of the religion they were baptized into as a child. By rescinding Louisa's employment, the whole of LDS abandoned and lost her forever and created a catalyst for Louisa to share her story far and wide, no doubt causing numerous others to question or leave the church.
If you feel so threatened by someone who says " I don't know if I believe" that you think it might cause a chain reaction of disbelief, then maybe its time to concede it's all made up, no matter how much of your life you spent believing it.
Please bring Thrive stories back!! They have been so encouraging and helpful.
I do like what Margi said about incorporating them into interviews by being co host and asking questions!! I like to hear the good and the bad of someone's story so I think it's a great combo!
1:15:47 - I had totally forgotten about the "flipping the tie ritual!" I can't remember if it was something I learned on my mission or before. It might have been in a seminary or institute class, but it's definitely one of those funny little customs that I'd forgotten about having been away from the church for a while now.
I am curious how Mormonism justifies teaches eternal marriage, when Jesus clearly teaches that marriage is only done on earth. In Matthew 22:23-30, Jesus says, "You are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven." I had always wondered about this.
When Jesus' words vs Joseph Smith's words are in the balance ... Which way should the balance shift? Which way does it shift? Objectivity vs Subjectivity! Law is as law does!!! Religious law is as religious law does!!!
hardly the only twist LDS theology twists Jesus words... and completed work.
While I agree with you that the Mormon church has little to back justifying eternal marriage…I certainly would not agree the Bible to be a “clear” answer either. The history of the Bible, where each of its books came from, and who the authors were…is just as messy as the history of the Mormon church. As Mormons we are completely and entirely unaware until we do our research. The same can be said of those of other religions and of the bible.
I have noticed that many religious faiths make women second class citizens.
A really captivating episode with a wonderful person, thank you.
It is very troubling to see someone so highly placed leave LDS. I hope she finds peace in whichever faith she ends up choosing.
Wow, my family is from those areas. Orem, rexburg, rigby, idaho falls area. My family has been mormon from the beginning. My mom raised me as what they call jack mormon , i was baptized but i am non practicing. Half my family is orthodox Mormon , half non practicing Mormon. I love watching your shows. I live out in the midwest.
Interviews that mention Rush/Neil Peart are my favorite! Kidding aside, great interview.
Neil Peart was one of those rare musicians that come along and make you look at an instrument differently, and the possibilities never seen before. Has there really been a drummer since him that made you go, "Okay, now this is different?" He passed in January of 2020. Then 10 months later, a guitar virtuoso that caused EVERYONE to see the instrument differently, passed away - Edward Van Halen. Two astounding virtuosos, gone the same year.
Interesting, the Bishop told Louisa to workout
her marriage. It wasn't her 's to workout. It wasn't her responsibility or burden. She had done nothing to create the circumstances that threatened the marriage. From personal experience Bishops often shift the responsibility of "saving" the marriage onto the spouse that is not causing the betrayal in the marriage.
Louisa, consider the following: when you said that you feel you are being punished for doing the right things or being truthful, consider the alternative perspective that you are actually being blessed to being given the truth (that the marriage wasn’t going to get better; that the church is not going to be worth staying , etc. ). Those “bad” things are precisely what you needed to have happen at those times. You deserve the truth!
Louisa you should read CoDependent No More by Melody Beattie. That book teaches so much about boundaries. Also it’s ok to get angry about what happened to you!!! Get good and angry!!!
Please interview Lynn Wilder. She is also a former BYU professor who left Mormonism. Her son Micah was the first member of her family to leave Mormonism (while he was on a Mormon mission.) She and the rest of her family soon followed.
Appreciate her comments about patriarchal blessings and marriage....I did the opposite...patriarchal blessings said same thing unfortunately, I listened to all the members saying only date someone with a temple recommend, in a low Mormon area and I was already over 30..(almost 31 then), so here I am now 30 years later still single, never had children. I wonder nowadays what would have happened, if instead I listened to my non Mormon Mother who said to open up to good men other religions! So, now I'm following her advice. It might be too late to have children, but maybe not for companionship!
Definitely not too late to find a partner!! I wish you so much luck on your journey! ❤️
@@doubtingdennis thank you so much for your message!!
That was really amazing.
I’ve really enjoyed Margi on the recent episodes :)
She’s got a great demeanor with the guests and asks great questions
This was a “religion crisis”, not a faith crisis. People who question high demand religions call it a “faith crisis”. That’s the stranglehold.
Plenty of people have faith crises, this is entirely different!!
Cult crisis
Margi is brilliant. I wish she was my therapist. I click on all of the stories with Margi
super cute graphics during the timer at the beginning!
1:54:08 as someone in the academic job market (albeit not dance, sadly. I wish i was that sort of creative), byu is the best school academically in utah for what i do and would be a dream job for lots of members. However, since leaving the church myself, i decided i wouldnt go to byu unless it was the right job for me and my family. Then, i decided i could never go to byu because of the harm it does as an institution to both active members and those that struggle. This interview confirms my decision that i could never go back to byu (i did an MA there while i was active) and it pains me to have to put on my cv that i attended in the first place. Thank you, Louisa, for your interview and your courage.
How sad that anyone would choose to give another power over their life, rather than being resilient and sorting things out for themselves. Looking up to people in authority epsecially men seems to be a big part of LDS culture.
And as a woman her questioning her faith makes her less than her abusive husband who lied, everyone knew he lied in his church yet he advanced.
It's horrible when church leaders are more concerned with keeping people in unsafe marriages, in them. I was in one and all I heard was God Hates Divorce, and I should pray for my ex and stay. Meanwhile, instead of being black and blue, my heart was being bruised while he was controlling. He put the church before our marriage.I don't think they care what goes on behind closed doors. As far as they know, he's such a godly man, but that was his persona to the church but not all that way at home. Plus, he used scripture to tell me I was supposed to submit to him in ALL things while ignoring that as a husband he was to love and cherish his wife and live with her in an understanding way. Nope! He cherry-picked scripture to fit his own agenda.
has anyone else noticed that john’s mic is always a bit quieter than the guest’s mic? i catch myself turning my volume up when he’s speaking and then turning it down when the guest starts to speak a lot.