I am not Mormon or ever intend to be. But I am so compelled by the stories on your channel. Stories about strong individuals who did not waver on their path/search for the truth. It takes so much courage to stand up against the status quo whether it be intellectually, emotionally, or legally. You are a great encouragement to us all. God Bless!🙏
I love how she isn't afraid to talk about the abuse she survived and openly talks about her experiences etc. I am a survivor of child abuse as well and I made the decision a long time ago that I refuse to be ashamed of what happened to me because the individuals that should be ashamed are those that abused me. I tell my story all the time and I hope that by speaking out that I will help at least one person out there to get out if they are in an abusive situation.
Absolutely! You did nothing wrong-the abuser and anyone who claims you are to blame or are ‘damaged goods’ in any way are the people who should be ashamed. Keep walking proud!♥️✌️
100% The most pernicious and pervasive form of victim blaming, in my opinion, is the narrative that victims of sex abuse crimes are former damaged, will never heal, will never be happy or live anything resembling a normal life and are forever ruined. It goes back to “honor culture”, though there is little honorable about it. A couple months ago I watched a video on UA-cam where the hosts and almost their entire chat repeatedly said death was a better alternative to living for victims of CSA. Most of the time people are using old narratives about sexual impurity being one of the worst things that can ever happen, not even realizing it, and “research” that is biased, outdated and lacking. Non biased, replicated, research has repeatedly shown that victims of sex crimes can and do go on to live perfectly happy lives after a period of recovery that differs depending on the specifics of the situation. Many think victims of CSA are not included in this.. They are and bucking the narrative that you are ruined for life/damaged is part of that recovery. It’s one that can be hard to fight against. When I was a kid certain politically active groups (including a specific group of radical feminists - though other feminists disagreed and pushed back) decided it was a narrative that helped courts achieve the harshest prison sentences for perpetrators, and therefore it has value. Value at the expense of victims. I’m quite sure you can still get harsh prison sentences without telling people they are damaged forever and that death is a better alternative. NO ONE says this to victims of attempted murder, serious physical assaults, domestic violence, etc… It’s only said in relation to sex crimes.
I guess you could put it in video game terminology and say it’s the final boss of victim blaming. I understand some are well intentioned in thinking that this narrative helps ensure prison sentences but it’s hard to see the good in saying things to people that would rightfully be considered unthinkable/unspeakable in several other situations that involve victimization.
I'm resigning and fighting to get out of the LDS church. As a child , a bishop told me it would be easier on me if I just let him. The men tried to shame scare me to stay in over 40 years later. I feel more shame in staying in when I knew how little I meant to them.
@Sasha Alexander Would you say that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day-Saints is a cult? I’m talking about the mainstream LDS church not FLDS. I’m curious because the argument whether it’s a cult or a New Religious Movement is controversial.
Elissa has such courage, tenacity, and 'fighting for the right' spirit. What a beautiful combination of beauty that came from such brokenness. She is such an inspirational woman. Makes many of my daily issues seem like such nonsense...she gives such a fresh perspective.
@@saltandiron3379 I watched an interview on the Hidden True Crime channel. A lady, Suzanne from Rexburg, ID, said that her LDS community shunned her and her 10 children when she divorced her abusive husband. TI found that shocking.
@@saltandiron3379 As legally, there is no such thing as a 'cult'( to protect the freedom of conscience, speech and religion)we can't even say that FLDS or LDS church are cults but both are considered NRM as long as they respect the laws of the country or state they are established in. From a sociological and psychological point of view, criterias exist to define a cult.
@@saltandiron3379 I would. Anyone who doesn't believe Jesus Christ came to earth, was crucified, and rose again on the 3rd day for our salvation would fall into that category. We cannot get to heaven any other way. Forgiveness of sin is through the grace of God and offered when we call on him. It is not offered through what the Bible calls works, that is, obtained by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Mormon church. It's only through Jesus. LDS believes in Jesus, but they do not see him as the mediator between us and God. They believe he is a brother to Satan rather than Satan being a creation of God. They do not believe we get to heaven through Jesus. My definition of a cult is any doctrine that alters the gospel message. When they add their own books, when they subjugate women, when they teach opposite to the Bible, or make up their own rules to control people, they are a cult! Jesus came to set us free. There is freedom in Jesus Christ! Anything that binds you, brings fear, or enslaves you is not from God.
How is this girl so well spoken with everything she has been through? I could listen to her for hours. So encouraging to see how resilient humans can be! Thank you for giving us so much of your time. I'm going to look for your book. Wishing you happiness and contentment and healing! ❤️❤️❤️
Especially considering that education was almost discouraged. The boys were to learn trades and girls to learn to “be sweet,” which basically means they must acquiesce to anything the men say, want, or do.
Jenn, will you and John please consider having Christine Brown’s aunt on the show? She’s runs a group to help women leave polygamy! It would be an amazing interview, especially since Christine just left Kody. 🎉❤
I think even Christine being on here would be interesting if possible because she said she has lost her faith now that she has left kody so to hear about her journey on the faith side of things would be interesting!
It impresses me how often women who have been through trauma often seem stronger than women raised in vapid pop culture world. Not saying I recommend trauma, but its either breaks people or makes them stronger. In the show they said Warren Jeff's downfall was moving to Texas, Texas basically said no that stuff doesn't fly here.
Look I've been listening to this podcast for many months now and I've come to trust that the person who is featured will indeed be telling their own story, that they will have control over what they say and how they say it, that they set their own intentions and pace. I KNOW THIS. And yet coverage of Warren Jeffs and FLDS has always felt so exploitative and didn't center the survivors and so I've shied away from listening to these episodes. I'm glad I finally sat down and gave them my time. These interviews are invaluable when it comes to trying to understand how these systems work, how they keep people trapped, how they diminish personhood. Elissa is so incredibly brave for coming forth with her truth and I am grateful. She is so incredibly empathetic and kind and I hope she continues to find joy. I also want to give her so much credit for centering the blame not on plural marriage itself, because CONSENTING ADULTS should be allowed to choose their own lifestyles. Her ability to recognize that it's not plural marriage, but the circumstances of the reality of this group's enforcement of plural marriage: the theft of consent, the theft of information, the theft of choice, the physical, mental, social, and sexual abuse, the shame and lies that constructed this belief system, and the forced adultification of children who have NO OPTIONS - these are the crimes. If adult humans want to cohabitate as families in groups larger than 2, that's fine, as long as it never comes at the expense of the humanity and dignity of those involved. Elissa was afforded NO dignity and NO choice. She fought with her entire soul against the wrongness of the circumstances, and she was right, and she is able to sit here today and tell us her story. Thank you to everyone who came together to give this opportunity.
I read Stolen Innocence when it came out! Elissa is one of the bravest women out there! Bless her for having the courage to stand and change the course of her life! SO excited to view this podcast! Thank you John so much for having her! Sure appreciate you and all you do!
Having watched all three episodes in this series I want to thank you, Elissa and John, for presenting this. It has really brought home to me the cost of speaking out and the long lasting effects of abuse even though this story is a positive one. Respect to you Elissa for forging a path out of the wilderness you found yourself and thank goodness that spark you often spoke about has remained and grown. 🙏
What an example of someone that is healed and whole from their experience. At times I feel as she said being embroiled in the anger as I come out of my religion and feel guilty for holding so much space for the anger I have. As I focus more on recognizing the good parts, the more I feel whole and healed as she stated. Thanks for articulating that point.
Thank you John for keeping your promise 🙏 to tell the stories of FLDS women & mothers. Their stories really need to be heard, but since they're often revised without technology, the FLDS women's stories are harder to come by on UA-cam
I am an ex Mormon and when I was active in the church I never , ever heard one word about the FLDS. They sure distance themselves from this part of their history.
I am in the middle of watching “Preaching Evil.” I am disgusted that Naomie Jeffs is not in prison. She said that her little sister “Wanted it” when she was made to marry Warren. She is Sick!! She said the little girl would doodle her name and write “Jeffs” as her last name. Man I am so sickened and angry. She’s so smug when she speaks!!! She even mentioned Elisa and said, “she hated the man she married. I don’t know why ” SMUG!!!!
Elissa is such a brave and amazing woman!! Thank you for having her on your show. I am always so shocked that these events still take place here in the US in this day and age. I LOVE how when asked if she is one who put Warren Jeff's in prisons, she responds " Yes, I am!"
I love your interviews and that you give your guest the freedom and comfort to tell their stories completely. It's not just a 15 min edit of a 2 hour long conversation. These people are so brave and strong for leaving their entire lives because they knew they deserved better. It's so great to see you honor that bravery but giving them an open forum to tell their stories.
John, I cannot tell you how intrigued I am by the three of you! One of my absolute favorite channels. The work that MS is doing is irreplaceable and should be treasured.
What a powerful woman. I'm in awe! One thing that I would like to ask is whether any of those FLDS men who married underage girls and R'ed them repeatedly have ever been brought to justice.
Elissa, your courage is impressive. Not just surviving, but learning to thrive. John and Jen, great job on this long series. I missed this part, but caught the other two. I was a foster parent in TX and had the honor of safeguarding 2 young moms and their children after the YFZ raid. They are grown now, but they stay in touch. I hate how that man destroyed people. Thank you for your insight.
The programming and grooming of the flds is how most religions operate.. I remember praying my hardest once begging God to give me power of tongues or being able to dream the future and warn people BECAUSE MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH AND CERTAIN FAMILY MEMBERS SAID THEY COULD.. I would wonder why wasn't I worthy, why would God see one worthy and not me or that I would never be blessed with a "gift".. When I wasn't healed from a pituitary tumor it was because I didn't pray hard enough and I need to soften my ways and submit! My firey personality has won ans now I see them all for what they are... it is most definitely a CULT!
Sister girl! You are amongst peers w these people. Equals. The strength youve tapped into, harnessed, and sustained just raw. Watching one of the televised episodes of you wanting to leave FLDS, I knew the precise nanosecond you decided you were “blowing that popsicle stand!” and I don’t think you even spoke, just shook your head..barely. 🙌🏼 Listen. I’m in no way possible making light of or downplaying any part of this tragic horrific needless story and Im so sorry. I was yours from there. 💪🏼👀 😘 There was a voiceover of you telling us how frightened and nervous you actually were about seeing him in court. But My Word! Look out! You were incredibly stoic and poised. I cried when I saw you. Your voice wavered a tiny bit bc that’s all you would allow to slip thru. So bright, well spoken and efficient in thought. Your gaze was dangerous. Appropriate AF. He knew! He knew when he saw your face w UNWAVERING conviction strength. I think his head literally dropped. You are a true superhero! First for not ignoring what YOURSELF needed and was screaming to you! You listened!! WooooooHooooo! You amaze me. And in turn…you gave the droves and droves of innocent,unassuming,unseen,unheard girls the best chance you possibly could!! One last thing…are you looking at me? …Their own mothers were leading them to “the house of the Lord” right to the wolf and STAYING! All the while overseeing, supervising, quite possibly detaining them in that “holy space”, HEARING THEM. Yeah. That’s who I’d like to see in a dark alley. Ok. I’ll stop. Always remember you could not convey a more researched, experienced, quick, competent advocate for this purpose. You are a genuine badass 🫶🏼
Elisa is a truly amazing, strong, courageous woman! Not everyone has either the fearlessness or stubbornness to shout their truth in the face of such dangerous adversity, but she's a freaking badass warrior woman! ❤❤❤
My favorite moment in this podcast is "treat people with respect, no matter their creed, no matter their belief" -Elissa. Reminds me of "Honor men of all sorts" 1 Pet 2:17
I first heard of Elissa when reading her sister, Rebecca’s, book. To hear these sisters’ experiences and stories of overcoming such an oppressive, high-demand religion has been so inspiring. I’m so glad I found this interview where she gets to tell her full story in-depth. Elissa and the interviewers did a phenomenal job and are so well-spoken. I will 100% be buying Elissa’s book now and watching Keep Sweet the documentary. Working as a new mental health clinician, I want to learn how to best help this particular population from a trauma-informed perspective. I find this information so valuable to help educate myself, instead of expecting my clients to spend their sessions having to educate me on what they have survived if they find that to be burdensome or re-traumatizing in any way.
I am not Mormon, but my maternal grandmother was. Her uncle was a polygamist that had been invited to help build a community in Mexico. He was the only polygamist of 4 brothers. Just a fascinating part of my family history.
Fun fact for Mormon history buffs: John Wickersham Woolley and his son Lorin Calvin Woolley are regarded as key founders of the Mormon Fundamentalist (FLDS) movement. Spencer W. Kimball, who died in 1985, was the 12th President of the "mainstream" church -- i.e. the one that has billions of dollars and is currently headed up by Russell M. Nelson. Spencer W. Kimball was the nephew of John W. Woolley and the first cousin of Lorin C. Woolley. John W. Woolley was also the uncle of B.H. Roberts and J. Reuben Clark. Just goes to show that the FLDS is not some distant, marginal, way-out-there, offshoot of Mormonism. It sprang from the elite families of Mormonism. Along with John Taylor, Brigham Young would most likely have regarded the FLDS as the true continuation of the church that he and Joseph Smith had led as "prophets".
Elissa is just an amazing woman! I have been very intrigued by the FLDS for years. I read her book and her sister's and loved them both. There were some parts I had to read a couple times because of what was written. She is such a courageous woman and what an example. Thank you for all you have done to help others.
The midwife that lied knowing full well she had assisted very young girls to give birth it makes me sick and angry these dirty old men doing this to children need life in prison. I wonder what the maternal and infant mortality rate was ? what if a woman needed a c section or an epidural for a long drawn out labour or an assisted delivery ? Nothing is ever said about this .
Yes, I was accused by cps of failing to protect my children then I realized it was true because I didn’t even know how to protect myself since I was taught to be self sacrificing.
It's really depressing when American CPS has a point. They tend to be very late to situations and very aggressive when it's not allways what they are meant to deal with. I appreciate the way baby basic income and mandatory sex Ed set people around me to have better relationships with the social services available to protect people
Thought stopping was very common in my Catholic upbringing. I went to Catholic school and if anyone asked a question in class they would always give you an answer that wasn’t actually answering the question.
Cults raise people to follow the cult no matter what. All religion is like this, they believe utter nonsense that harms others and lets others live lives of hell.
Me too 😢I don’t believe it was strength it was fear I just can’t imagine wanting anything to do with my mother ever again if she did that to my brother it’s a very sick cult and I have real trouble understanding it from a mothers point of view . all of their “precious “ children were disposable if they didn’t tow the line 😢
@@Tess-163This practice is so common in FLDS. Hundreds and hundreds of boys have been expelled from their fundamentalist community. They’re referred to as “Lost Boys.”
Elissa Wall Says, " Polygamy isn't The Problem but the application of how people live within it" - by wrong thinking of men. So she still thinks that Polygamy is a true principle? Of course, I understand something deeply ingrained in her. & something that is deeply ingrained in Mormonism, in general, that will be eventually practised.
I will have to disagree with her about characterizing her mother as strong. If her mother was strong she would have left with her son instead of kicking him out. It was a weakness to care more about her faith than her child. I don't care how indoctrinated a person is if you abandon your child like that you are not strong or someone to be admired.
Wow, she has evolved into an eloquent woman! This is completely different from the personality that came across in her book. I wonder how other ex FLDS feel about her, she as an individual at a very young age, played such a vital role...
Can’t even tell you how excited I am for this. CAN IT BE MONDAY ALREADY!? Lol So grateful for you Mormon Stories team!!!! I watch you almost everyday while I’m working ❤️
Thank you, so much for your story. Something very similar happened to me. We, we’re LDS I went to my bishop as I was taught. He failed me I, was told to pray and fast. The abuse became physical because I told on him. I, now know it wasn’t my fault.
I could listen to john read the phone book. Never mormon, humanist, verging atheist. found the channel last month. Im sure suggested because i watch a hutterite channel. Best find in a long long time.
My God! What a story you tell, and what a testament to humanity and your God-source that leads you thru life. You are an amazing woman, Elissa. I've read your book & enjoy hearing the stories from you petsonally. Many blessings, always. ❤
I watched the movie The Child Bride of Short Creek. I am glad she got away but felt bad for her friend that was married to an old man and got pregnant. I wish she knew she could still get away.
I don’t think culture is a defense of child sex abuse-which was a rampant, systemic issue in the FLDS community. Not sure if that’s what Elissa was implying when discussing how the authorities used similar methods to those used in Native American communities to strip them of their culture-and I understand that the authorities didn’t do things perfectly-but when children are in a system like that something does need to be done asap. (Loving this interview so far, Elissa is a very eloquent speaker.)
It stood out to me. There is definitely still some internal misogyny. I was reflecting on this statement and wondering if it is also because as a girl in FLDS she wasn’t taught true history or anything beyond what it means to run a house and everything she knows she had to learn as an adult. She still has some reprogramming to do though.
I bought ilise's book, why an emotional rollercoaster of the story she had to go through!! What an amazing woman, and young woman when it all happened! ❤️❤️ Sending love to you Jen too what horrible situations you had to go through in order to get Justice is just insane!!! I'm so glad you guys got old and are doing good regardless of your past 🙏❤️
How people can tolerate giving away control of their freedom, just boggles my mind. My personal freedom is of ultimate importance to me. Not that I do anything bad with my freedom. I just need to know I have it. Religion is a habit, a repetition, a practice. Spirituality is finding the Creator in each individual and unique moment.. If I am not free to experience those moments, I feel enslaved. I feel sad for those who never breathe freedom, or hear the Creator in bird song.
Elissa is so well spoken. And she is right about treating members with kindness, respect, and compassion if you want to help them escape. Sadly, I looked down my algorithm list and there was an ad showing Joseph Smith reaching for a child (😳) in a children’s book style picture, promoting selected teachings from him.
Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Amen! I like in Hebrews, where it says …the veil was torn in the temple so we can now “come boldly” to the throne of the living God and petition HIm in this new freedom as his own son or daughters. Jesus is the High-priest and we are inheriting all HE has for his children.
I had to think for a moment what "candelstein" meant, and then it hit me- it was meant to be "clandestine". Not trying to tear her down, just figured maybe some others might be a bit confused on that one, if they're very alert, deep listeners who process every word and sentence very analytically, so as not to miss any details. I'm fully aware just how little academics is focused upon inside the "grade schools" (day to day religion/faith-centered schools) of fundamentalist polygamist groups like the FLDS, so most ex-believers end up getting the majority of their conventional educations after leaving, which is often in adulthood. Not to mention many are married off or working from early middle school age and school is not prioritized past that point. There are bound to be a variety of minor things that are easily mistaken, misused or misunderstood as a result of just how much they learn as adults after leaving. This situation seems to be one of those, in my opinion, so I do want to stress that I understand the mistake and have the utmost respect for the struggle of going from nearly uneducated (academically speaking- past elementary school standard levels out in the real world) to the point she and others are at now.
This woman is the most articulate guest that I have heard on the podcast. She is mesmerizing to listen to. Her so called "lack of education" would challenge any scholar.
@@karanestell8723 I've got to disagree. She's a great story teller, but I heard plenty of basic English words that were pronounced incorrectly in a serial manner. I'm not saying she's unintelligent, but a lack of education is evident if you've listened through the whole interview. She's a product of her upbringing, and admitted herself that she got most of her education as an adult, and there is little chance of replacing an entire grade school education in a few years as an adult when those formative years were spent being taught so much incorrectly. She cannot compete with any scholar academically. She can tell a story with the best of them, and that has its own value, but academically, she would be severely outmatched. Luckily, academics aren't the focus of her life's story, so it isn't a huge detriment to her.
@@IWantToRideMyBike yep, which doesn't really make her look unintelligent, so there's no need to even pretend about it. We know she wasn't educated as a kid like most of us were, and her vocabulary is fairly vast despite that fact, so some mispronounced words and misused words are to be expected. Her story is very compelling nonetheless, which I know most people would agree with. I had to call BS that she would somehow show up scholars when compared academically because that's simply not plausible given the fact that most of the words she didn't quite have right are high school level words. She's still amazing and inspiring. Everyone has things they're not perfect at, but I deal in reality and will keep it 100 about things like this.
I’ve listened to her other places too. She’s well spoken, but uses various words wrong. I chalk it up to being raised in an isolated cult that didn’t believe in higher education.
Jesus said totally the opposite …”Go into all the world and make disciples of all men!” Jesus didn’t say to stay away from the world, but to be a light 💡 to the world! Matthew 28:19,20
I didn’t have overt aversion to polygamy as long as it was consensual and everyone has an equitable place within the family. What rubs me the wrong way is the large amount of children born and the unwillingness to educate them so that they can sustain and support themselves in and outside of the community. Thus the unmarried mother get assistance and services for themselves and their children from city/county/state and federal government.
Wow. What’s crazy is that the Bible’s biggest message is GRACE and FREE WILL and UNCONDITIONAL LOVE. Complete opposite of FLDS teachings and they claim to follow the Bible as well. Absolutely horrific and disgusting.
1:11:50 I only see what is similar between lds and flds. the hidden abuse she mentions, and a bit later john mentions weird things going on among normal life... after spending time in the military and making nevermo friends outside utah I have firsthand experience with how our version of normal in the utah mainstream is still very odd to the rest of the world.
It's offshoots. Christianity has them too: CHRISTIANITY Splitoff:Catholicism Split-off: Judaism Split Off: Lutheran (Martin Luther) Splitoff: Presbyterian Splitoff: Methodist Splitoff: Baptist Splitoff: Jehova's Witness Splitoff: Mormonism Offshoot:Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints (LDS) (Joseph Smith) Offshoot: Church of Christ (Joseph Smith III) Offshoot: Latter Day Church of Christ (Kingston Clan) Offshoot: Apostolic United Brethern (Allred Group) Offshoot: Centennial Park Group (The Work) (Leroy S Johnson) Offahoot: Fundemtalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Warren Jeffs).
I'm glad he had his historical details. It is important for a reference point and to understand it was Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and I did not know this but then John Taylor. The US federal government insisted that polygamy be ended in Utah before they could be admitted as a state. The 1880s was a good reference point.
How is following orders strength? When she talks about her mom dropping off her son on the side of the highway and she called that strength… that’s not strength to me. That’s cowardice. That’s disgusting, defeated, cowardice. You believe something so much that you won’t fight for your own kids when you love them with all your heart? If you love your child you fight for them. You don’t abandon them. That’s not love. That’s a coward.
This is really interesting, I'm 15 minutes in, and I haven't heard anything about when these polygamist groups actually split from the LDS church and why.
John Dehlin guested on the channel Growing Up In Polygamy, and the story about how and why the polygamists split from the LDS is discussed in pretty good detail on those two videos.
So weird to hear about Widstoe Utah. It’s a ghost town now. It was was a thriving place in the 1920’s but droughts pushed people out. Makes me wonder wear the actual ranch was. Does her family still own the land? I grew up fish pine lake. I knew there were polygamist family’s all over the area. My family is from Bryce/tropic area.
You're absolutely out of this world, just kidding. You hit the baseball ⚾ out of the ball park on this one. John, you're awesome. Thank you for the next two programs. Exposure like this is necessary & an important historical narrative, it needs to be told. The religion of Utah hurts people. It deserves no regard or least of all respect.
...or as Elissa says, respect all. Of course, respect for the people as well as their heart-felt beliefs, not the abuse, which by the way all fallen mortals are party to in some large or small degree, or we would be angels. So realizing this, respect for every person becomes easier... Haha, "sweet no matter what". Even those we see as enemies or enemas. As Christ tells us: Love thy enemies.
I am not Mormon or ever intend to be. But I am so compelled by the stories on your channel. Stories about strong individuals who did not waver on their path/search for the truth. It takes so much courage to stand up against the status quo whether it be intellectually, emotionally, or legally. You are a great encouragement to us all. God Bless!🙏
I love how she isn't afraid to talk about the abuse she survived and openly talks about her experiences etc. I am a survivor of child abuse as well and I made the decision a long time ago that I refuse to be ashamed of what happened to me because the individuals that should be ashamed are those that abused me. I tell my story all the time and I hope that by speaking out that I will help at least one person out there to get out if they are in an abusive situation.
Yuck us zombies Z lol😢ok o
Absolutely! You did nothing wrong-the abuser and anyone who claims you are to blame or are ‘damaged goods’ in any way are the people who should be ashamed. Keep walking proud!♥️✌️
100% The most pernicious and pervasive form of victim blaming, in my opinion, is the narrative that victims of sex abuse crimes are former damaged, will never heal, will never be happy or live anything resembling a normal life and are forever ruined.
It goes back to “honor culture”, though there is little honorable about it.
A couple months ago I watched a video on UA-cam where the hosts and almost their entire chat repeatedly said death was a better alternative to living for victims of CSA.
Most of the time people are using old narratives about sexual impurity being one of the worst things that can ever happen, not even realizing it, and “research” that is biased, outdated and lacking.
Non biased, replicated, research has repeatedly shown that victims of sex crimes can and do go on to live perfectly happy lives after a period of recovery that differs depending on the specifics of the situation.
Many think victims of CSA are not included in this..
They are and bucking the narrative that you are ruined for life/damaged is part of that recovery.
It’s one that can be hard to fight against. When I was a kid certain politically active groups (including a specific group of radical feminists - though other feminists disagreed and pushed back) decided it was a narrative that helped courts achieve the harshest prison sentences for perpetrators, and therefore it has value.
Value at the expense of victims.
I’m quite sure you can still get harsh prison sentences without telling people they are damaged forever and that death is a better alternative.
NO ONE says this to victims of attempted murder, serious physical assaults, domestic violence, etc…
It’s only said in relation to sex crimes.
I guess you could put it in video game terminology and say it’s the final boss of victim blaming.
I understand some are well intentioned in thinking that this narrative helps ensure prison sentences but it’s hard to see the good in saying things to people that would rightfully be considered unthinkable/unspeakable in several other situations that involve victimization.
I'm resigning and fighting to get out of the LDS church. As a child , a bishop told me it would be easier on me if I just let him. The men tried to shame scare me to stay in over 40 years later. I feel more shame in staying in when I knew how little I meant to them.
Studying religions and cults for years now, I'm still amazed by the strength of children born in it to get out.Elissa Wall is such a great example.
@Sasha Alexander Would you say that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day-Saints is a cult? I’m talking about the mainstream LDS church not FLDS. I’m curious because the argument whether it’s a cult or a New Religious Movement is controversial.
Elissa has such courage, tenacity, and 'fighting for the right' spirit. What a beautiful combination of beauty that came from such brokenness. She is such an inspirational woman. Makes many of my daily issues seem like such nonsense...she gives such a fresh perspective.
@@saltandiron3379 I watched an interview on the Hidden True Crime channel. A lady, Suzanne from Rexburg, ID, said that her LDS community shunned her and her 10 children when she divorced her abusive husband. TI found that shocking.
@@saltandiron3379 As legally, there is no such thing as a 'cult'( to protect the freedom of conscience, speech and religion)we can't even say that FLDS or LDS church are cults but both are considered NRM as long as they respect the laws of the country or state they are established in.
From a sociological and psychological point of view, criterias exist to define a cult.
@@saltandiron3379 I would. Anyone who doesn't believe Jesus Christ came to earth, was crucified, and rose again on the 3rd day for our salvation would fall into that category. We cannot get to heaven any other way. Forgiveness of sin is through the grace of God and offered when we call on him. It is not offered through what the Bible calls works, that is, obtained by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Mormon church. It's only through Jesus. LDS believes in Jesus, but they do not see him as the mediator between us and God. They believe he is a brother to Satan rather than Satan being a creation of God. They do not believe we get to heaven through Jesus. My definition of a cult is any doctrine that alters the gospel message. When they add their own books, when they subjugate women, when they teach opposite to the Bible, or make up their own rules to control people, they are a cult! Jesus came to set us free. There is freedom in Jesus Christ! Anything that binds you, brings fear, or enslaves you is not from God.
How is this girl so well spoken with everything she has been through? I could listen to her for hours. So encouraging to see how resilient humans can be! Thank you for giving us so much of your time. I'm going to look for your book. Wishing you happiness and contentment and healing! ❤️❤️❤️
Especially considering that education was almost discouraged. The boys were to learn trades and girls to learn to “be sweet,” which basically means they must acquiesce to anything the men say, want, or do.
I was just thinking that.
Jenn, will you and John please consider having Christine Brown’s aunt on the show? She’s runs a group to help women leave polygamy! It would be an amazing interview, especially since Christine just left Kody. 🎉❤
Agreed!
Yes please.
Yes that would be fantastic!
Bring it on, that would be an unreal interview. I love Christine.
I think even Christine being on here would be interesting if possible because she said she has lost her faith now that she has left kody so to hear about her journey on the faith side of things would be interesting!
Elissa is very eloquent and insightful. She's a true gem.
I love how she has so clearly found her voice! It’s wonderful!
Totally, that’s what I wanted to write 😊
It impresses me how often women who have been through trauma often seem stronger than women raised in vapid pop culture world. Not saying I recommend trauma, but its either breaks people or makes them stronger. In the show they said Warren Jeff's downfall was moving to Texas, Texas basically said no that stuff doesn't fly here.
Look I've been listening to this podcast for many months now and I've come to trust that the person who is featured will indeed be telling their own story, that they will have control over what they say and how they say it, that they set their own intentions and pace. I KNOW THIS. And yet coverage of Warren Jeffs and FLDS has always felt so exploitative and didn't center the survivors and so I've shied away from listening to these episodes. I'm glad I finally sat down and gave them my time. These interviews are invaluable when it comes to trying to understand how these systems work, how they keep people trapped, how they diminish personhood. Elissa is so incredibly brave for coming forth with her truth and I am grateful. She is so incredibly empathetic and kind and I hope she continues to find joy.
I also want to give her so much credit for centering the blame not on plural marriage itself, because CONSENTING ADULTS should be allowed to choose their own lifestyles. Her ability to recognize that it's not plural marriage, but the circumstances of the reality of this group's enforcement of plural marriage: the theft of consent, the theft of information, the theft of choice, the physical, mental, social, and sexual abuse, the shame and lies that constructed this belief system, and the forced adultification of children who have NO OPTIONS - these are the crimes. If adult humans want to cohabitate as families in groups larger than 2, that's fine, as long as it never comes at the expense of the humanity and dignity of those involved. Elissa was afforded NO dignity and NO choice. She fought with her entire soul against the wrongness of the circumstances, and she was right, and she is able to sit here today and tell us her story. Thank you to everyone who came together to give this opportunity.
I read Stolen Innocence when it came out! Elissa is one of the bravest women out there! Bless her for having the courage to stand and change the course of her life!
SO excited to view this podcast! Thank you John so much for having her! Sure appreciate you and all you do!
Yup, braver than jumping off El Cap.
Having watched all three episodes in this series I want to thank you, Elissa and John, for presenting this. It has really brought home to me the cost of speaking out and the long lasting effects of abuse even though this story is a positive one. Respect to you Elissa for forging a path out of the wilderness you found yourself and thank goodness that spark you often spoke about has remained and grown. 🙏
What an example of someone that is healed and whole from their experience. At times I feel as she said being embroiled in the anger as I come out of my religion and feel guilty for holding so much space for the anger I have. As I focus more on recognizing the good parts, the more I feel whole and healed as she stated. Thanks for articulating that point.
Thank you John for keeping your promise 🙏 to tell the stories of FLDS women & mothers.
Their stories really need to be heard, but since they're often revised without technology, the FLDS women's stories are harder to come by on UA-cam
I am an ex Mormon and when I was active in the church I never , ever heard one word about the FLDS. They sure distance themselves from this part of their history.
The most racist BS ever is the Moron church they are the first ones to teach that Black people skin is a cursed False teaching .
😂 I think that's why the didn't want LDS and Mormon used for the church name.
After enjoying her book so much, I am absolutely thrilled to see Elisa doing well, and what an engaging speaker!
I am in the middle of watching “Preaching Evil.” I am disgusted that Naomie Jeffs is not in prison. She said that her little sister “Wanted it” when she was made to marry Warren. She is Sick!! She said the little girl would doodle her name and write “Jeffs” as her last name. Man I am so sickened and angry. She’s so smug when she speaks!!! She even mentioned Elisa and said, “she hated the man she married. I don’t know why ” SMUG!!!!
Elissa is such a brave and amazing woman!! Thank you for having her on your show. I am always so shocked that these events still take place here in the US in this day and age. I LOVE how when asked if she is one who put Warren Jeff's in prisons, she responds " Yes, I am!"
I love your interviews and that you give your guest the freedom and comfort to tell their stories completely. It's not just a 15 min edit of a 2 hour long conversation. These people are so brave and strong for leaving their entire lives because they knew they deserved better. It's so great to see you honor that bravery but giving them an open forum to tell their stories.
John, I cannot tell you how intrigued I am by the three of you! One of my absolute favorite channels. The work that MS is doing is irreplaceable and should be treasured.
What a powerful woman. I'm in awe! One thing that I would like to ask is whether any of those FLDS men who married underage girls and R'ed them repeatedly have ever been brought to justice.
Elissa, your courage is impressive. Not just surviving, but learning to thrive. John and Jen, great job on this long series. I missed this part, but caught the other two. I was a foster parent in TX and had the honor of safeguarding 2 young moms and their children after the YFZ raid. They are grown now, but they stay in touch. I hate how that man destroyed people. Thank you for your insight.
The programming and grooming of the flds is how most religions operate.. I remember praying my hardest once begging God to give me power of tongues or being able to dream the future and warn people BECAUSE MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH AND CERTAIN FAMILY MEMBERS SAID THEY COULD.. I would wonder why wasn't I worthy, why would God see one worthy and not me or that I would never be blessed with a "gift".. When I wasn't healed from a pituitary tumor it was because I didn't pray hard enough and I need to soften my ways and submit! My firey personality has won ans now I see them all for what they are... it is most definitely a CULT!
Omg! This pretty lady is so intelligent and well spoken. She taught me a master class. Thank you for providing the platform.
She truly has a gift for speaking! I could listen to her all day. Thank you for sharing
Sister girl! You are amongst peers w these people. Equals. The strength youve tapped into, harnessed, and sustained just raw. Watching one of the televised episodes of you wanting to leave FLDS, I knew the precise nanosecond you decided you were “blowing that popsicle stand!” and I don’t think you even spoke, just shook your head..barely. 🙌🏼 Listen. I’m in no way possible making light of or downplaying any part of this tragic horrific needless story and Im so sorry. I was yours from there. 💪🏼👀 😘
There was a voiceover of you telling us how frightened and nervous you actually were about seeing him in court. But My Word! Look out! You were incredibly stoic and poised. I cried when I saw you. Your voice wavered a tiny bit bc that’s all you would allow to slip thru. So bright, well spoken and efficient in thought. Your gaze was dangerous. Appropriate AF. He knew! He knew when he saw your face w UNWAVERING conviction strength. I think his head literally dropped. You are a true superhero! First for not ignoring what YOURSELF needed and was screaming to you! You listened!! WooooooHooooo! You amaze me. And in turn…you gave the droves and droves of innocent,unassuming,unseen,unheard girls the best chance you possibly could!! One last thing…are you looking at me? …Their own mothers were leading them to “the house of the Lord” right to the wolf and STAYING! All the while overseeing, supervising, quite possibly detaining them in that “holy space”, HEARING THEM. Yeah. That’s who I’d like to see in a dark alley. Ok. I’ll stop. Always remember you could not convey a more researched, experienced, quick, competent advocate for this purpose. You are a genuine badass 🫶🏼
Elisa is a truly amazing, strong, courageous woman! Not everyone has either the fearlessness or stubbornness to shout their truth in the face of such dangerous adversity, but she's a freaking badass warrior woman! ❤❤❤
My favorite moment in this podcast is "treat people with respect, no matter their creed, no matter their belief" -Elissa. Reminds me of "Honor men of all sorts" 1 Pet 2:17
Such an amazingly articulate and brilliant young woman. Excellent Guest
I first heard of Elissa when reading her sister, Rebecca’s, book. To hear these sisters’ experiences and stories of overcoming such an oppressive, high-demand religion has been so inspiring.
I’m so glad I found this interview where she gets to tell her full story in-depth. Elissa and the interviewers did a phenomenal job and are so well-spoken. I will 100% be buying Elissa’s book now and watching Keep Sweet the documentary. Working as a new mental health clinician, I want to learn how to best help this particular population from a trauma-informed perspective. I find this information so valuable to help educate myself, instead of expecting my clients to spend their sessions having to educate me on what they have survived if they find that to be burdensome or re-traumatizing in any way.
I am not Mormon, but my maternal grandmother was. Her uncle was a polygamist that had been invited to help build a community in Mexico. He was the only polygamist of 4 brothers. Just a fascinating part of my family history.
Would be amazing if you guys could get Christine Brown on. She didn’t just leave plural marriage but she left the religion.
YES!! I think we might have to give her a little more time to process everything she went through though
Fun fact for Mormon history buffs: John Wickersham Woolley and his son Lorin Calvin Woolley are regarded as key founders of the Mormon Fundamentalist (FLDS) movement. Spencer W. Kimball, who died in 1985, was the 12th President of the "mainstream" church -- i.e. the one that has billions of dollars and is currently headed up by Russell M. Nelson. Spencer W. Kimball was the nephew of John W. Woolley and the first cousin of Lorin C. Woolley. John W. Woolley was also the uncle of B.H. Roberts and J. Reuben Clark. Just goes to show that the FLDS is not some distant, marginal, way-out-there, offshoot of Mormonism. It sprang from the elite families of Mormonism. Along with John Taylor, Brigham Young would most likely have regarded the FLDS as the true continuation of the church that he and Joseph Smith had led as "prophets".
Elissa is just an amazing woman! I have been very intrigued by the FLDS for years. I read her book and her sister's and loved them both. There were some parts I had to read a couple times because of what was written. She is such a courageous woman and what an example. Thank you for all you have done to help others.
Oh, WOW!! I have been following Elissa since she published her book. I’m in awe getting to hear from her. I feel so much respect for her.
When Mormons leaves LDS do they then become Christians?
Listening to Elissa's story, I'm reminded of the saying that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
The midwife that lied knowing full well she had assisted very young girls to give birth it makes me sick and angry these dirty old men doing this to children need life in prison. I wonder what the maternal and infant mortality rate was ? what if a woman needed a c section or an epidural for a long drawn out labour or an assisted delivery ? Nothing is ever said about this .
Yes, I was accused by cps of failing to protect my children then I realized it was true because I didn’t even know how to protect myself since I was taught to be self sacrificing.
It's really depressing when American CPS has a point. They tend to be very late to situations and very aggressive when it's not allways what they are meant to deal with.
I appreciate the way baby basic income and mandatory sex Ed set people around me to have better relationships with the social services available to protect people
Elissa is a HERO!!!!!!!!! ♥️
You can totally tell she is a professional speaker.
ELISSA WALL'S STORY IS WHAT BROKE MY SHELF - I LOVE HER
I love that you are reclaiming Short Creek. I feel the same way about the LDS Church in terms of refusing to quit them. Good for you!!!
Thought stopping was very common in my Catholic upbringing. I went to Catholic school and if anyone asked a question in class they would always give you an answer that wasn’t actually answering the question.
Probably because you went to a school that was part of the cult of modernism, and the didn't know the answer, because they didn't know the faith.
You dont know the question, how do you know if they did or didnt know the answer?
Oh myyyyy he was dropped of on the side of the road like an unwanted dog! This hurts my mama heart unbelievably!!
Cults raise people to follow the cult no matter what. All religion is like this, they believe utter nonsense that harms others and lets others live lives of hell.
Me too 😢I don’t believe it was strength it was fear I just can’t imagine wanting anything to do with my mother ever again if she did that to my brother it’s a very sick cult and I have real trouble understanding it from a mothers point of view . all of their “precious “ children were disposable if they didn’t tow the line 😢
@@Tess-163This practice is so common in FLDS. Hundreds and hundreds of boys have been expelled from their fundamentalist community. They’re referred to as “Lost Boys.”
What I love best about her is, she doesn’t demonize anyone. We may all have some unanswered questions, but appreciate the family who raised us.
I read her book years ago and have been a huge fan since.
Elissa Wall Says, " Polygamy isn't The Problem but the application of how people live within it" - by wrong thinking of men. So she still thinks that Polygamy is a true principle? Of course, I understand something deeply ingrained in her. & something that is deeply ingrained in Mormonism, in general, that will be eventually practised.
I will have to disagree with her about characterizing her mother as strong. If her mother was strong she would have left with her son instead of kicking him out. It was a weakness to care more about her faith than her child. I don't care how indoctrinated a person is if you abandon your child like that you are not strong or someone to be admired.
My mother was the opposite. She wouldn’t let me go but instead fought with me constantly and showed me a lot of hatred.
Wow, she has evolved into an eloquent woman! This is completely different from the personality that came across in her book. I wonder how other ex FLDS feel about her, she as an individual at a very young age, played such a vital role...
I'm so glad you are getting a chance to tell your complete story thank you Mormon stories you guys rock
I cried when Elissa cried. I could relate to her pain and the struggle of finding yourself as an adult after getting out of abuse.
Can’t even tell you how excited I am for this. CAN IT BE MONDAY ALREADY!? Lol
So grateful for you Mormon Stories team!!!! I watch you almost everyday while I’m working ❤️
Thank you, so much for your story. Something very similar happened to me. We, we’re LDS I went to my bishop as I was taught. He failed me I, was told to pray and fast. The abuse became physical because I told on him. I, now know it wasn’t my fault.
I am sorry you experienced DV. I hope you are safe and happy now.
I could listen to john read the phone book. Never mormon, humanist, verging atheist. found the channel last month. Im sure suggested because i watch a hutterite channel. Best find in a long long time.
My God! What a story you tell, and what a testament to humanity and your God-source that leads you thru life. You are an amazing woman, Elissa. I've read your book & enjoy hearing the stories from you petsonally. Many blessings, always. ❤
I watched the movie The Child Bride of Short Creek. I am glad she got away but felt bad for her friend that was married to an old man and got pregnant. I wish she knew she could still get away.
That little discussion of kindness, compassion, clarity and comprehension is lovely.
I don’t think culture is a defense of child sex abuse-which was a rampant, systemic issue in the FLDS community. Not sure if that’s what Elissa was implying when discussing how the authorities used similar methods to those used in Native American communities to strip them of their culture-and I understand that the authorities didn’t do things perfectly-but when children are in a system like that something does need to be done asap.
(Loving this interview so far, Elissa is a very eloquent speaker.)
"I'm a woman," she says, to disparage herself as though thousands of women weren't historians who do know dates.
So true. Deconstruction takes a lot of work and time.
That bothered me as well. A non sequitor
@@mwillis7791 exactly.. deconstruction is a very long and painful process. I don’t think she meant any harm
The habitual sexism was strong there.
It stood out to me. There is definitely still some internal misogyny. I was reflecting on this statement and wondering if it is also because as a girl in FLDS she wasn’t taught true history or anything beyond what it means to run a house and everything she knows she had to learn as an adult. She still has some reprogramming to do though.
I bought ilise's book, why an emotional rollercoaster of the story she had to go through!! What an amazing woman, and young woman when it all happened! ❤️❤️ Sending love to you Jen too what horrible situations you had to go through in order to get Justice is just insane!!! I'm so glad you guys got old and are doing good regardless of your past 🙏❤️
How people can tolerate giving away control of their freedom, just boggles my mind. My personal freedom is of ultimate importance to me. Not that I do anything bad with my freedom. I just need to know I have it. Religion is a habit, a repetition, a practice. Spirituality is finding the Creator in each individual and unique moment.. If I am not free to experience those moments, I feel enslaved. I feel sad for those who never breathe freedom, or hear the Creator in bird song.
Elissa is so well spoken. And she is right about treating members with kindness, respect, and compassion if you want to help them escape.
Sadly, I looked down my algorithm list and there was an ad showing Joseph Smith reaching for a child (😳) in a children’s book style picture, promoting selected teachings from him.
Elissa is such a great speaker. This is such an interesting topic but I could probably listen to her talk about anything.
Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Amen! I like in Hebrews, where it says …the veil was torn in the temple so we can now “come boldly” to the throne of the living God and petition HIm in this new freedom as his own son or daughters. Jesus is the High-priest and we are inheriting all HE has for his children.
I had to think for a moment what "candelstein" meant, and then it hit me- it was meant to be "clandestine". Not trying to tear her down, just figured maybe some others might be a bit confused on that one, if they're very alert, deep listeners who process every word and sentence very analytically, so as not to miss any details. I'm fully aware just how little academics is focused upon inside the "grade schools" (day to day religion/faith-centered schools) of fundamentalist polygamist groups like the FLDS, so most ex-believers end up getting the majority of their conventional educations after leaving, which is often in adulthood. Not to mention many are married off or working from early middle school age and school is not prioritized past that point. There are bound to be a variety of minor things that are easily mistaken, misused or misunderstood as a result of just how much they learn as adults after leaving. This situation seems to be one of those, in my opinion, so I do want to stress that I understand the mistake and have the utmost respect for the struggle of going from nearly uneducated (academically speaking- past elementary school standard levels out in the real world) to the point she and others are at now.
This woman is the most articulate guest that I have heard on the podcast. She is mesmerizing to listen to. Her so called "lack of education" would challenge any scholar.
@@karanestell8723 I've got to disagree. She's a great story teller, but I heard plenty of basic English words that were pronounced incorrectly in a serial manner. I'm not saying she's unintelligent, but a lack of education is evident if you've listened through the whole interview. She's a product of her upbringing, and admitted herself that she got most of her education as an adult, and there is little chance of replacing an entire grade school education in a few years as an adult when those formative years were spent being taught so much incorrectly. She cannot compete with any scholar academically. She can tell a story with the best of them, and that has its own value, but academically, she would be severely outmatched. Luckily, academics aren't the focus of her life's story, so it isn't a huge detriment to her.
I did notice words used incorrectly too.
@@IWantToRideMyBike yep, which doesn't really make her look unintelligent, so there's no need to even pretend about it. We know she wasn't educated as a kid like most of us were, and her vocabulary is fairly vast despite that fact, so some mispronounced words and misused words are to be expected. Her story is very compelling nonetheless, which I know most people would agree with. I had to call BS that she would somehow show up scholars when compared academically because that's simply not plausible given the fact that most of the words she didn't quite have right are high school level words. She's still amazing and inspiring. Everyone has things they're not perfect at, but I deal in reality and will keep it 100 about things like this.
I’ve listened to her other places too. She’s well spoken, but uses various words wrong. I chalk it up to being raised in an isolated cult that didn’t believe in higher education.
Elissa Wall is a legend!
I'm also from the flds, and I'd say 2008 raid of the Texas compound was definitely viewed as persecution by the world
Thank you for sharing Elissa. I am in awe of your courage, resilience and ability to connect 💕
Just so you know I clicked so fast, I’m so incredibly excited for this interview
Elissa, you are so inspiring to so many people who have suffered greatly due to high demand organization. Thank you..,well done❤️🙏
Forever ever and ever in awe of anyone born in a cult who gets out ❤
I read her book and I think she is wonderful.
I’m SO ready for this!!!
Yay Brandi!!!
Why would anyone assume early polygamist were "good people" ?
Good people don't accessorize with extra wives.
This
Not to mention that polygamy is absolutely ILLEGAL
John Taylor was my fourth great grandfather. I left the church just before my mission.
I’m listening to her book right now. Very emotional.
Thanks for the scaffolding since some of us are not Mormon ever..
Jesus said totally the opposite …”Go into all the world and make disciples of all men!” Jesus didn’t say to stay away from the world, but to be a light 💡 to the world! Matthew 28:19,20
I enjoyed so much listening to Elissa. What a strong and interesting woman!
Listening to these stories always amazes me. Unfortunately this is what happens when we listen to man’s voice above God’s.
And which voice is Gods? The Bible was written by men claiming to hear God’s voice.
I didn’t have overt aversion to polygamy as long as it was consensual and everyone has an equitable place within the family. What rubs me the wrong way is the large amount of children born and the unwillingness to educate them so that they can sustain and support themselves in and outside of the community. Thus the unmarried mother get assistance and services for themselves and their children from city/county/state and federal government.
i hope you guys know that your voices are comforting enough that i fell asleep at 4 pm yesterday and slept until 6 am 😀😀
Wow. What’s crazy is that the Bible’s biggest message is GRACE and FREE WILL and UNCONDITIONAL LOVE. Complete opposite of FLDS teachings and they claim to follow the Bible as well. Absolutely horrific and disgusting.
1:11:50 I only see what is similar between lds and flds. the hidden abuse she mentions, and a bit later john mentions weird things going on among normal life... after spending time in the military and making nevermo friends outside utah I have firsthand experience with how our version of normal in the utah mainstream is still very odd to the rest of the world.
A cult of a cult? Mormonism gets stranger and stranger
It's offshoots. Christianity has them too:
CHRISTIANITY
Splitoff:Catholicism
Split-off: Judaism
Split Off: Lutheran (Martin Luther)
Splitoff: Presbyterian
Splitoff: Methodist
Splitoff: Baptist
Splitoff: Jehova's Witness
Splitoff: Mormonism
Offshoot:Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints (LDS) (Joseph Smith)
Offshoot: Church of Christ (Joseph Smith III)
Offshoot: Latter Day Church of Christ (Kingston Clan)
Offshoot: Apostolic United Brethern (Allred Group)
Offshoot: Centennial Park Group (The Work) (Leroy S Johnson)
Offahoot: Fundemtalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Warren Jeffs).
I was taught ‘The new and everlasting covenant’ is Christ having died on the cross for the sins of humanity.
Cults are such an odd thing :(
Aw so your cult teachs something different
I was taught as a mainstream LDS in the 1980-90s, that the New and Everlasting Covenant was Celestial marriage (polygamy).
I'm glad he had his historical details. It is important for a reference point and to understand it was Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and I did not know this but then John Taylor. The US federal government insisted that polygamy be ended in Utah before they could be admitted as a state. The 1880s was a good reference point.
How is following orders strength? When she talks about her mom dropping off her son on the side of the highway and she called that strength… that’s not strength to me. That’s cowardice. That’s disgusting, defeated, cowardice. You believe something so much that you won’t fight for your own kids when you love them with all your heart? If you love your child you fight for them. You don’t abandon them. That’s not love. That’s a coward.
She's amazing! I was so excited to hear this.
i feel for whoever has that cough, my allergies have been awful this week 😷
This is really interesting, I'm 15 minutes in, and I haven't heard anything about when these polygamist groups actually split from the LDS church and why.
John Dehlin guested on the channel Growing Up In Polygamy, and the story about how and why the polygamists split from the LDS is discussed in pretty good detail on those two videos.
@@TravelinJenB I'll have to check that out! Thank you!
@Tyler Gehbert you're most welcome!
So weird to hear about Widstoe Utah. It’s a ghost town now. It was was a thriving place in the 1920’s but droughts pushed people out. Makes me wonder wear the actual ranch was. Does her family still own the land? I grew up fish pine lake. I knew there were polygamist family’s all over the area. My family is from Bryce/tropic area.
Happy birthday month! ❤🎉 I just went to my local bookstore for my 1st book signing to meet Abby Jimenez 😍😁!!!! Im betting you will like her books.
Every time I see this video in my feed I think it’s Tylee Ryan in the screen shot.
That’s true!
Elissa is such a well spoken amazing woman!!
Jesus said if look on another with lust, you commit adultery. How can you Marry another woman without commit adultery.
Ended up watching Preaching Evil documentary, and Elissa you are a HERO!!! I an curious your thoughts and observations about Naomie Jeffs
1:22:00 kindness….leads to change….
The one man link to God is Jesus Christ! Jesus is our high priest interceding before the Father on our behalf! Hebrews 3:1 and Hebrews 5:14-16
You're absolutely out of this world, just kidding. You hit the baseball ⚾ out of the ball park on this one. John, you're awesome. Thank you for the next two programs. Exposure like this is necessary & an important historical narrative, it needs to be told. The religion of Utah hurts people. It deserves no regard or least of all respect.
...or as Elissa says, respect all. Of course, respect for the people as well as their heart-felt beliefs, not the abuse, which by the way all fallen mortals are party to in some large or small degree, or we would be angels. So realizing this, respect for every person becomes easier... Haha, "sweet no matter what". Even those we see as enemies or enemas. As Christ tells us: Love thy enemies.
I am SO EXCITED for this!!
I read the book it was excellent