The Most Secret Mormon Ritual: A History of The Second Anointing | Ep. 1908
Вставка
- Опубліковано 11 лип 2024
- Shrouded in secrecy, the Second Anointing ritual promises the highest blessings of exaltation and godhood to worthy Mormons. But with its history steeped in polygamy and secret combinations, this ceremonial rite has sparked intense debate. Uncover the veiled truths of this sacred ordinance as we delve into accounts from former members, historical documents, and the church's tight-lipped stance on this most enigmatic of Mormon mysteries.
Show Notes: www.mormonstories.org/portfol...
Chapters:
00:00:00 What is the second anointing?
00:05:35 Teaser to Derren Klein’s story
00:06:24 Derren’s story
00:08:35 The Second Anointing is a cat with five lives
00:11:14 What does the Second Anointing look like?
00:13:38 You are promised exaltation
00:22:31 New ritual called sealing
00:23:48 Women are finally brought into the group
00:26:14 The first mention of the Second Anointing
00:29:25 Do women’s feet get washed in the Second Anointing?
00:33:33 Was Second Anointing the default for everyone?
00:38:00 For twenty years there were no Second Anointings
00:43:05 Vienna Jaques
00:48:20 People requesting the Second Anointing
00:53:50 Second anointings for the dead
00:58:45 Quit asking for it
01:00:35 How the process of recommendation works
01:12:40 The 1920s is where things change
01:14:05 George F. Richards on why they stopped giving the second anointings
01:26:00 George F. Richards
01:31:40 Richards argues for it and brings receipts
01:36:40 The Twelve get the second anointing during this time
01:38:50 Kimball’s journal
01:42:20 The church’s claim to hold priesthood authority
01:48:50 Modern prophets and apostles receiving the second anointing
02:02:30 Leonard Arrington becomes curious about the Second Anointing
02:10:20 Promises for the children
___________________
At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.
Our overall mission is to:
1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology
2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis
3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions
🤝Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today
One-time or recurring donations: donorbox.org/mormon-stories?d...
Patreon: / mormonstories
Venmo: account.venmo.com/u/mormonsto...
Paypal: paypal.me/mormonstories
Join this channel to get access to perks:
/ @mormonstories
Our Platforms:
🌐Mormon Stories Blog: www.mormonstories.org/episodes
🎙️Patreon: / mormonstories
✳️Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/4sDzk7d...
🍎Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
🖼️Instagram: / mormstories
📱TikTok: / mormonstoriespodcast
🎮Discord: / discord
Contact us:
📧 MormonStories@gmail.com
📬PO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117
As a never Mormon this stuff could be totally boring & dry but Brian brings it to life in such an exciting interesting way. His own excitement & enjoyment of the topic is infectious
Being an ex-mormon and learning about what Mormonism REALLY is has to be a better trip than mushrooms. It blows my mind to places I never thought it would go.
It’s more like a really bad trip where you realize reality is a lie and all your role models were super evil. And then your friends and family are all still trapped in the simulation, and there’s nothing you can do… because they think you’re lost, fallen, and apostate, so they all treat you weird now…
That’s what it’s like.
Indeed
That's a better description. Absolutely 💯!
@@joshuawatson1902That's an excellent description for many. It depends on how far each individual went down the rabbit hole. It sounds like you had a deep dive.
That is an insult to the beloved mushrooms
I remember teaching a Sunday School lesson that had the following disclaimer. It was the first time I had ever heard or read anything about the second anointing. It left me with more questions than answers.
"Chapter 19
Eternal Life
Introduction
Caution: Exercise caution while discussing the doctrine of having our calling and election made sure. Avoid speculation. Use only the sources given here and in the student manual. Do not attempt in any way to discuss or answer questions about the second anointing."
Wow 🤯
This disclaimer has to be a rare time the church has mentioned the 2nd anointing by name. It's the church's "Fight Club." They don't want the masses knowing there's a class system built into the doctrine of the church. Extra-special people can get saved before they die. I get the feeling Joseph Smith was handing out extra ordinances and callings like Pez dispensers. All in an effort to keep control.
Very odd. Controlling.
Chapter 19 of what? I'd like to look it up.
@@parrishthethoughtpodcast368 google, chapter 19 lds manual eternal life. It will bring it up on the church website.
Monthly donor here who has been wondering about Tom since his episode aired! His story was extremely moving and we’ve shared his story with many others! Please bring him back for an update and thank you all for the work, it’s SO important!!
Shortly after returning from my mission and beginning a calling in the temple, my whole life's goal was to have the Second Anointing. As I began studying more to prepare for it, that's when I started to notice inconsistencies, fables, and lies.
When people asked why I stopped working at the temple, I usually just say "I saw too much and it made the magical glow of the church disappear."
The truth was learning the truth about the Second Anointing, how pointless it was according to the Bible, and then that made me start questioning everything else.
So yes, of you want to know the validity of the doctrine and church, start learning ALL the doctrine of the church.
My calling as primary President opened my eyes. I began attending meetings that made me ask many questions and I took them straight to God and that’s when he downloaded my mind with so much truth. It literally blew me away. And as I began to study it only confirmed what he had told me. It was my rebirth, and one of the most joyful days of my life. Alongside the marriage to my husband and the birth of my children. I will never forget it. My mind was free!
@@Francis-px2ocok sweet primary opened your eyes ok . Are you all there ?
I doubt it was God who answered you lol.
Hey dummies the second anointing is in Nauvoo endowments . We know about them. But as everything in the temple it is for the temple not shouted from the roof tops you know . Sounds really beautiful and sacred to me . Like everything in the church is . History is so beautiful grows a testimony stronger . Thanks for the information . Nothing bad . John Dehlin seems to look worse every year . Maybe took on Satans looks . All your guests never say anything worth while but just make fools out of themselves . All these things are in the scriptures . Thanks for the information . What did you prove ? Oh ya nothing . Sounds beautiful to me . Church standing is you can believe how you want if Jesus was married or not . They say they. Do not know . Seems Jesus would be married to me. Second anointing sounds good . Sounds biblical .
@@Francis-px2ochmm ofd you don’t say your questions you took to God over primary ?? Gezz
Once again I have a very basic question. If it is true and good, why can't they be open and honest about it even to their own members? And don't give me the "sacred" argument. It doesn't hold any water.
Of course they will say it's sacred...
I think its because the hierarchy would not be able to defend this absurd theology by reasonable thinking Christians.
I did some digging, and found a Nauvoo ancestor whose journal happens to be on family search. Sure enough, he had a second anointing.
Turns out, this ancestor (Joseph C Kingsbury) also acted as a cover for Joseph Smith. He was a widower, so a “pretend marriage” (his words) was held with Sarah Ann Whitney, one of Joseph’s plural wives and daughter of Newell K Whitney. She was 17 for her marriage to Joseph, 18 during her pretend cover marriage.
Now this is really confusing!!
@@Teresa-tn4we basically, they pretended to be married so Joseph Smith could have sex with her. JCK was sent on a mission shortly afterwards.
Wow, what a find!
The second anointing alone absolutely takes away what Jesus did on the cross 100%
Hmmm
Because their election was made sure? So, no need for an atonement?
No. It just confirms the exaltation, but doesn't deny the role of Christ in salvation and exaltation.
Agreed. Blasphemy.
Not by works
Never Mormon guy here who finds all of this terribly fascinating. I can totally understand how all the craziness of Mormonism seems completely normal to someone who was born into the cult or converted at a very young age. But there are full grown adults with completely formed frontal lobes, with rational decision making abilities who convert to this nonsense. That's something that I will just never understand. But I guess most of the adults who convert to this culty corporation of horse crap do so without informed consent. That's where you and your podcast come in, John. Thank you so much for shedding light and giving the facts about Mormonism.
You could say the same for Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, etc., etc. religions as well. And I bet there are billions of their followers who have no idea of the lesser known "teachings". Same goes for many indigenous belief systems. All goes back to some crackpots who sought to have everyone subscribe to a certain way of thinking. Probably to control their behaviour in some way.
@alpinemotel7974 The lack of informed consent and childhood/past trauma being common for many many adult converts. The church presents itself as squeaky clean and a safe haven. If you overlook the skeletons, not spoken of, in the closet then you have an instant community of generally really nice people. However, when the lights come on and you see how the sausage is made, it's an almost instant exit. Speaking from my experience growing up mormon with family on both sides going back to Nauvoo. I've seen the wizard and Oz is NOT what it's marketed to be.
Born and raised in it and then set free! I began to study cults and realize that many adult members who join as adults, my family line included…lived torn lives of abuse, neglect, etc. They are longing for a feeling of belonging. So you either join a cult or a gang right? I give them credit in the sense that they were trying to do the right thing and follow Christ. It’s very sad really.
Damn! This guy is so smart. I’ve seen him on several times before with Lindsay Hansen Park, but his name is escaping me. Please have him on again. He rules! I could listen to him all day long.
His name is Bryan Buchanan and he did this whole episode without a single note in front of him. It’s all just up in his noggin. Unbelievable.
@@KimbaAndParkcicle thanks for telling me his name! Wow, that’s awesome. John, do more with him in it - he’s brilliant.
Definitely check out Sunstone Mormon History Podcast. Bryan and Lindsay are great together on it.
Brian is his usual brilliant self😅explaining this respectfully in a historical context. The whole concept of second anointing flies in the face of the Christian teaching of salvation by grace extended to all humans through the death and resurrection of Jesus. Though I am not a Christian, even I see this as a scam!
the second anointing has been a huge shelf item for me. It is so elitist. It also takes away what Christ did. You cannot get your calling and election made sure by anyone other than Jesus Christ.
@katrm6673. ELITIST?
Meant to be, apparently.
Actually butkus-in-the-bushes club. How wonderful that it was most honest, sincere, THINKING members who were finally convinced enough of its
"OFFness" to choose to make it "public".
THAT is example of TRULY
ELITE.
[Anyone who IS,
is not jumping around to
be "recognized" by that
adjective. That's just gauche.]
Do you remember the old joke about taking the elevator up to the Celestial kingdom? Each stop has these tables of bountiful foods, it is all so extravagant. This person gets to the Celestial kingdom and is served a tuna sandwich. Cook tells them their aren't enough there to go all out for meals.
This is needed so bad. Thank you! Please continue to save lives!
Freemason here. You do receive a new name as part of Masonic rituals. At least in the version I went through
Where do the Masonic rights come from? Jerusalem, after the Christians took over during the first crusade. The temple right from Jerusalem also had similarities to ancient Egyptian temple rights
My grandfather did also.
Is it specific to each person, or does everyone going thru on the same day get the same name, like the Mormons do?
@@John-ne4fqThe Masons are a modern men’s club and not “ancient.”
@@atlramona that’s not what I said is it? The Masonic right is derived from Jerusalem when the Christians took over and learned about Jewish/eastern mysticism
If there’s such a thing as high exaltation, I doubt it can be handed down by a man.
D & C 132:7
Agreed 100%
So the super wealthy, famous mormons can get their 2nd annointing to ensure their posterity are in it to win it no matter what...very similiar to paying for repentance ect to the Catholic church. SICK!!! 2:11:49 !!
I had always wondered why there was so much competition of status and wealth in the church. So many members frantically trying to prove their worth through how big their house was, how much money they made, how many children they had. It reminded me of the Pharisees which Christ condemned. This makes sense!
I find it immensely funny that the Mormons are repeating essentially the sale of indulgences. Hope they learn from it lol
Does the Catholic church still sell forgiveness “indulgences” that angered Martin Luther so much ?
@@bethpalmtree11yes!
My dad came home from working at the temple with my mom in the early 1970's one day & excitedly told me he had had his "calling & election made sure". He was so tickled. I guess I was his one person.
It's seems like the gift of discernment is a facade to make you feel like you have the truth and can pick out any evil. It gave me such a false confidence that I knew best with the spirit
It is a gift but it’s given by God and not them. It’s just that they corrupted truth and used it to manipulate those who have it sadly.
My mom is Molly Mormon, she wouldn't discuss this second anointing with me. My parents worked in the temple, so i wonder about them getting this. She was surprised I asked/knew it existed. I have NO desire at all for this.
I have not attended the temple (besides baptisms as a teenager) and I was taught about it in the mid 80's in Institute, so I wonder why your mom was surprised?
Ok, I see the act of a women washing their husband’s feet as more of a symbol of a woman being a servant to their husbands and not as an act of priesthood.
Whatever gave you that idea? LOL
Jesus washed the feet of his chosen followers, explaining that leaders must also be servants of the people. Cf Corinthians 13, where the greatest gift is charity, also love of thy neighbours.
Yes. This alone is the ultimate corruption of the mission of Jesus Christ in the Bible. The perfect perversion of the gospel. The wives in this Mormonism serve the man, are dependent on the man for their salvation, and glorify him by being one of many wives and children. This man would never humiliate himself by washing feet. It is antithetical to Jesus and his teachings.
Because that is what they want you to embody. Real priesthood priestesses do know service but not by trickery,fear and guilt.
If the husband doesn't wash his wife's feet then it's so obviously one sided
I want to make a very important correction and clarification here! John D mentioned Mary, the Mother of Jesus, as anointing Jesus’s feet. Correction: It was Mary of Bethany, sister of Martha and Lazarus, that anointed Jesus’s feet in the Bible! See New Testament John 12:1-3. Also the Blessed Mother of Jesus, Mary, was born of Saints Anne (born 49 BC Bethlehem and died after 4 AD) and Joachim (born 75 BC in Nazareth, died 15 AD in Jerusalem). See the Gospel of James or the Protoevangelium of James in the Apocrypha NOT to be confused with the Epistle of James in the NT). It is commonly referred to as “The Infancy Gospel” and the Jewish MIDRASH (elaboration) of Mary, mother of Jesus as noted in the NT Matthew and Luke Gospels. Mary was born in 18 BC in Herodian Judea.
Yeah I picked that up too. I understand the purpose of the show in trying to explore topics but John is not up to date with quite a lot of Church stuff and policies. He remembers things as they were and has to rely on guests to inform him about updates. That’s how it seems to me.
He said Mary. He didn’t define which Mary. I think he was assuming that the listener knew he wasn’t referring to the ‘virgin’ mother.
After almost 50 yrs I'm coming to realize tha almost nothing about the LDS faith/ Church is true. Another religious hoax. Sad.
I was born in the church... Now that I know Mormonism is fake, I don't know how much of my belief is mine and how much is from the indoctrination
And NOTHING is original! During the last 3 years, I’ve read about 30 books on the doctrine and history. Shocking!😳
Cult hoax.
I bet you don’t know anything that is true.
50 years!?!?!? 😂😂😂
You get a second anointing and you get a second anointing! Everyone gets a second anointing!
I'm ready! Where do i send the check?
LOL. :) That would make 1 Hell of an Oprah episode.
@@shermannorton8723I offer you the 2nd anointing at no charge. Consider yourself anointed.
But, who would want even a first annointing?
Sorry, only one 'n' in anointing!
Second anointing week!!! 🎉🥳 I've been waiting for this! It's so hard to find a good break down of the Second Anointing, probably because most members would have a huge problem with it.
Wild the amount of research and information crammed into these Mormon Story Podcasts. Compared to Mormon Sunday School lessons or Midnight Mormon episodes, this is the meat of Mormonism while the members are sipping milk from baby bottles.
You learn something new everyday. The Law of Adoption was a ritual practiced in temples of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) between 1846 and 1894. It was a way for men who held the priesthood to seal themselves to other men
@Megamudkipz42 lol
@@Megamudkipz42listen to the podcast... Will ya
Really?
Whhaattt😮
Why would they do that
Fastinaing discussion and information. Wow . Convert of 47 years no idea of any of this elitist religion! Dare I say man made ?
Brian is amazing. So knowledgeable! The Sunstone Mormon History podcast is a must. Him and Lindsey Hanson-Park do a great job
I suspect at least part of the reason they don't offer it to everyone nowadays is the same reason many exmormons have critique it for - it absolves people of a bit too much. Even the highly devoted seem to struggle with that much guaranteed absolution.
My mother worked in the Medford, OR temple and told me that there was a room specifically for the second anointing. It was a huge secret. Blah, blah, blah. After she passed away an ex-stake president told me, with an inordinate amount of concentrated eye contact, that my mother was an “elect” lady.
My Mother's language toward the end of her life told me that she had the 2nd anointing, but she never said as much. All it did was make her think she was going to be alone in heaven making her life even worse. Such a sick organization.
@@matthewowen4508 so sad. My mom is a sad single Mormon woman. Even worse, the fact that me leaving could make her feel less than and that anyhow or somehow if she continued double faithful that I may return. I really hope she doesn’t do that, but I know the programming is there so it’s a good possibility. Ugh.
So...Jesus restored His church in the first half of the Nineteenth Century...but the doctrine of the Second Anointing is somehow not understood by all and sundry -- IN THE UPPER ECHELONS of the church?! If Jesus -- the central character of the New Testament -- truly leads the Mormon Church, why are so many of the leaders and members stumbling around in the dark concerning this practice?! Clearly, the leaders and members are not under the watchful eyes of Jesus....
My ex husband told me a story about his mission president and his wife - they were apparently called into a temple and that they were told that if they carried on their lives the way they had been, they would go directly to the celestial kingdom. I remember he also said that did get new names. My ex was on his mission from 2012-2014/15. And now listening to this episode, I'm convinced that the mission president and his wife received their second anointing.
I regained my ability to walk after leaving religion, i have a wonderful fiancee now, i own a car, invest my money, and im going back to college. Also, i lost my ability to walk while christian, i left christianity, and i can leg press 500 lbs in the gym now.
Im not the strongest guy in the gym, but im proud of that. No religion required. I really turned my life around.
...errr... um. Well, golly. That's certainly a story. 500 Kgs! Blimey.
@@sprinkdesign7170Soooo he said pounds, not kilograms. And even then, 1100 pounds-which is what 500 KGs equals-is possible. Certainly not common, but possible.
Gotta remember that the US never went to metric.
@@justkiddin84 Oh. OK. So is that 500 lbs per leg?
@@sprinkdesign7170 no, a leg press machine is both legs at once. It's basically a squat but kind of upside down or sideways so your own body weight isn't a factor
@@sprinkdesign7170 what? 500 pound leg presses-with weights. Working out.
Back in the day it was called your calling and election made sure. We were always told that meant that you had seen the face of Christ. My grandfather, a polygamist, supposedly had his c & e made sure. I was shocked when I heard that Jeffrey Holland had told someone their c & e was made sure.
That’s what my family still calls it. Apparently my grandma had an experience before her death and was told by family members that her calling and election was made sure because of that experience. But it had nothing to do with a temple ceremony, so I have know idea what actually happened cause I was only 2 when she passed. Just heard aunts and uncles talking about it from time to time.
Right this way. Get your plenary indulgences, apostolic pedicures, and planetary assignments right here, folks. Step right up, brothers and sisters. I’m still waiting in line for my Fireball whiskey bath
😂😂😂😂
His insight is so helpful in understanding this high demand religion. Nevermo but grew up in a narcissistic family with its own high demand religion-like behavior.
Never Mormon here. Wash your own feet. This big corporation is full of big criminals. Smh
Fun fact: the OG Judson Tolman was the first of three brothers (Cyrus, Judson & Benjamin) to join the church in 1844. I am descended from Cyrus. Cyrus & Judson arrived in the Salt Lake Valley with the vanguard company and went on to settle Tooele. Loved this episode!! MS is really hitting it out of the park every week!
We should connect! Brian has a ton of interesting information on Judson!
Did anyone watch the London UK Hyde Park "Mormon Rescue" visit by three apostles? Elder Holland let something slip about his and others on the stand having their "election made sure"? It was a reference to the second anointing.
Yup. Holland virtue signaling yet again.
The existence of this secret ceremony open to top tithe payers is like a Church within a Church. Makes you wonder if there is even a cultish practice beyond this?
This does sound very cultists! Especially when bringing in the Masons into it...
It's like Scientology where they have level upon level, until you reach Tom Cruise God status.
It is a cult and I speak from experience.
I am not and have never been Mormon. Here’s my question: So if someone makes a million dollars and gives 100,000 (10%) and another man earns 50,000 and gives 10,000 (20%)who would be considered a “top” tither?The rich man gave 100,000 from his abundance leaving him 900,000. The man earning much less gives 20% sacrificially and it only i leaves him with 40,000 to live on. Who is the top tither in God’s eyes? Reminds me of the widow’s mite. Such elitism and not what Jesus was about.
Oh, yes! Plenty of cults within cults. I met a number of victims while in a psyche hospital ward in Utah.
On my mission in Brazil in 2015-17 I received a PowerPoint presentation from a bishop on the second anointing, which according to the PowerPoint was how you were brought into the church of the firstborn. The PowerPoint had church insignias on it and seemed like something that only church leadership was supposed to see. I also had my mission president explain to me that you found that your calling and election were made sure if you saw a vision or dream where Jesus or God appeared to you, maybe washing and anointing your feet in the vision/dream. Once this happened to you, you were supposed to contact your church leadership and after this was “verified” you would go to the temple, enter the holy of holies, and receive your second anointing. I imagine this is all still being taught to mission presidents and church leaders today. Just thought this related to the discussion topic. Love Mormon Stories Podcast.
I loved your Mormon stories trailer❤
Laughing that Joseph was anointed king twice, but, Biblically speaking, David was also anointed King three times (the first one was secret, then once for Judah and once for all Israel), and Solomon was also anointed twice.
“I don’t want to belong to any club that would accept me as one of its members”
- Groucho Marx 😅
It's fascinating, as a European atheist, who's interested in history to listening to this. I have been reading up on "burned over district" and the second great awakening. And see what lasting inpact it has had on the US.
As a never Mormon, I think part of the interest is why anyone would believe God. (Jesus, the Holy Spirit, a higher power, etc) would bother to have humans on earth and only want to save less than .1% of them and have them jump through crazy hoops ( like tithing- who carried Cash back in the day and did percentages, and give fast passes to Heaven) when we are all equal.
Bryan is my favorite scholar. His depth of knowledge and his memory is awesome.
The only difference between a cult and a religion is how many people believe in it.
Interesting take... Maybe that's why so many people believe their religion is true since so many others also believe what they believe
Cults are more fun.
Wrong. Cults are defined as high control organizations. They DEMAND money, free work, etc and exert undue influence through emotional, physical, sexual, and spiritual abuse.
Regular churches do not do these things. Your contributions are voluntary. Having said that, every religion has offshoot cults.
Cults can also be familial, corporate, sexual, etc-not all cults are religious.
And oh yes, the LDS and most of its offshoots are cults.
Cults are organizations who refuse members to leave with a feeling of dignity because they no longer choose to be a believer.
No
Great job ! I can hardly wait for the next episode !
I am so excited to see the story unfold. Thank you Morman Stories ❤️
Thank you, JD for covering the 2nd Anointing!!! Very intriguing as an Never Mo from GA 💛
So, basically, if you have enough money in the bank, you are asked to receive the second anointing 😂😂😂
It also seems likely to me that with all these new temples that not many people are using Nelson might "endorse" the second anointing more often to make temples seem useful, especially to wealthy Mormons. Super elitist but Nelson doesn't seem like he values egalitarianism in the least. 😣
FANTASTIC episode! The 1st time I heard about the 2nd anointing was the Tom Phillips' MS episode. I was "astonished beyond all measure!" This practice, of the elite getting a free pass throughout their lives, is so contrary to gospel principles that even tbm's should find it unconscionable. Thus, "I wish ALL to receive it!"
Glad you enjoyed it!
Did it ever occur to you very intelligent people to ask WHY rituals that could save people's souls were kept a secret? A red flag should be the LDS banner!
That can't be intellectual to buy into this garbage!
There're millions of Mormon members out there... Why do they all believe this bs
I can’t wait for the next discussion. This is so fascinating.
So glad to hear this and I will say happy I finally caught a live and can't wait for this week.
This was a FASCINATING subject. GREAT lecture, super dialogue- THANK YOU
Pointy Birds,
So pointy, pointy...
Anoint my head,
Anointy, nointy
~ ~ ~ John Lillison, England's Greatest One-Armed Poet.
Buying a stairway to Heaven' 😂😂😂😂😂😂
They made a song on that! Now I know why 😮
Old journals are fascinating. Jesse N Smith wrote that he obeyed BY and married a 15 yr old girl in 1869 as his 4th wife during his Scandinavian mission. (She was younger than his eldest child.) When they returned to Utah a year later she was baptized, confirmed, endowed, sealed, and received her 2nd annointing all on the same day. (Can you imagine her exhaustion?) Also on the same day, his 1st wife received her 2nd annointing, as well as a proxy 2nd annointing for her sister, who was Jesse's deceased 2nd wife. A decade later he married yet another teenager, and she was sealed to him and got her 2nd annointing on the same day. I have to make charts and diagrams to keep it all straight.
Great content! Looking forward to more!
I'm excited about this series.
Thank you
Here’s an interesting podcast. “Uncorrelated Mormonism”. They read the intimate details of what went on in the Kirkland Temple. Knocked my socks off! 😮
I need a detailed chart, this is AMAZING!!
Brian is a walking Mormon encyclopedia, amazing knowledge.
I was a morman for 59 years. Was a heavy temple going person..why have I never heard of this? Very interesting and strange. Keep it up. Love this channel.
What a bright guy! He’s done his research and we need his name please :)
His name is Bryan Buchanan. Funny and so stinking smart. His podcast is the Sunstone Mormon History podcast and it’s AWESOME.
Is this the same as "having your calling and election sure"?
Yep!
So why was there a reference to Nemo closer to the end of the episode when talking about excommunications? John said he'd explain, but did I miss it?
great episode guys and huge props to Brian for the depth of research that he's done.
For some reason my reply in another comment isn't showing up. A couple people have asked about an lds lesson that gives a disclaimer about the second anointing.
You can find this disclaimer and lesson if you google chapter 19 eternal marriage, lds manual. That lesson will show up and it is currently on the church website.
33:43 Judson Tolman & Sarah Holbrook are my sons’ Great, Great, Great Grandparents. I knew the names because I helped my granddaughter with a 7th grade project. NOW, I just learned he came with Brigham Young here to Utah .. wow, so my kids are from direct Pioneer Stock .. thanks for the information.
We need to connect! Brian Buchanan has fascinating information you will want to read about. I come from Judson and Zebiah Jane.
@@robynward2819 I would love to learn more about this history.
It’s Christ or Joseph Smith. Where does the LDS church put its faith?
Its the super secret Mormon DLC.
My grandparents were called on a senior mission in the Philippines, where my grandfather was in the temple presidency in Manila. I know they had their second anointing, which would have been in 1994 or 95 during the Howard W. Hunter years. I have a little niggling thought that years back I read a reference to a “special blessing” given to them before their mission, but I don’t recall for sure.
No mention about the recent 50th anniversary of Russell Nelson's 2nd Anointing...? (June 9th)
I recall a very close Area Authority told me something about “a ceremony in the Temple involving his wife, that people is not aware of”. I had no idea what he was talking about until maybe 15 years later (after listening to Phillips). But 2 things are very interesting; 1.- it was 1999 when he talked to me, 2.- this is in south América. The leader was southamerican, I guess that inner circle was wide open to other nationalities by then.
I've been aware of this ritual since I was a kid, so I generally get bored and click away, but the tie in to my ancestor Judson Tolman is keeping me listening. (My guess would be that I'm a second cousin to Darren's wife.)
We should connect! Brian has a ton of interesting information on Judson. We come from Judson’s 4th wife Zebiah.
@@robynward2819 Sure. I'm a descendant of the 1st wife Sarah.
In confirming that I ran across information about his excommunication, which was quite interesting.
I found my ancestors in one of the books. I knew they were buried in Nauvoo but had no idea of their involvement of the church.
Great episode 😊
So happy that you’re adding in history of the start of second annointings that includes freemasonry and the history of the church into the discussion.
So would the Second Annointing be the finale of the Covenant Path?
Yes...
Thanks!
I swear you both have a freat way of delivering the facts . I appreciate the learning experience.
What a great episode
We have been counciled not to discuss whether we have had the second anointing.
We’ll ignore you said that! 🤫
What does someone do to earn a second anointing? It must be something pretty spectacular. I assume this is the same thing as “calling and election made sure.”
I love Bryan episodes ❤ and I’m a nevermo 😂
Is there any indication or diary entries stating that the brethren petitioned the Lord for guidance on 2nd anointings?
Men who's fishy about "the secrets!" UGH! Being a true, Fishers of Men, I thought actually involved having A Christ Characteristic of self... Yeah, I don't see this in the church's example- >°{(())>< 🎣
Hang on,I understand that women can't hold the priesthood so how much does that blessing of her spouse hold up
The doing the first annointing once was creepy enough. Who the hell would want to be violated a second time...
SO many TBM's deny 2nd anointings exist. Its crazy they have no idea about them
Read Charles Harrell’s book, “This is My Doctrine “. There are a few pages about second anointing and the call by Wilford Woodruff to stop sealing men to men . I think it was 1868 but I don’t have the book close to me.
Thanks Steven, you’re amazing😮
Oops. Gay marriage?
Does Masonry have a new name? I can answer that: In some early versions of the Entered Apprentice degree there is indeed a new name, but it is always the SAME for everyone (just as in the Endowment, it was always Abraham and Sarah for everyone up until after Brigham Young's life), but also in the Mark Master degree (4th in the American/York rite system) there's a reference to the white stone spoken of in the book of Revelation (where the scripture mentions New Name) in connection with the Keystone, and all Mark Masters select a mason's mark (a symbol) which they are told in ancient times was equivalent to their signature or name.
But not a "new" name like in the Church....
@@IBNED I don't know what you mean. The wording would say " I also present you with a new name; it is ____" How is this not a "new" name like in the Church? lol.
Might depend n your jurisdiction....in Idaho we do not have this in any of our degree work. I served as WM in my lodge and as DDGM for the MWGM in Idaho...what jurisdiction R U in?
@@IBNED I said "in some early versions" - this was a historical comment about mid-19th century Freemasonry, not a modern day comment in current ritual.
@@IBNED Oh, and to answer your question, even though I wasn't referring to our own ritual, I'm a member under the Grand Lodge of Ancient Free & Accepted Masons of Oregon.
I loved the laughter and levity on this topic, I think its important that we find humor even in the most messed up and distorted doctrines. It definitely helps with the healing process 😊
This is so interesting.
Brigham Young and wilt chamberlin our The All Time scoring champions!😁😁😈👿❤️👄🌹🍄🌿