The Truth About Electric Cars Biggest Problem
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- Опубліковано 11 лют 2020
- Why Not All Transportation Can Go Electric Today - Energy Density
Why Gas Engines Are Far From Dead - • Why Gas Engines Are Fa...
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From a scientific standpoint, the largest challenge facing today's electric cars is the energy density of batteries used. The batteries are both massive and heavy, and as a result have significant impacts on electric transportation feasibility depending on the scenario. This video analyzes today's batteries energy density, as well as the efficiency differences associated between gasoline vehicles and electric vehicles. Even when accounting for efficiency, the gap between electric and gasoline energy densities is quite large.
To further illustrate this point, we'll assess the feasibility of an electric powered semi-truck, and the weight of the battery required in order for the vehicle to have a range of 500 miles. The results will SHOCK you. Maybe not; that's just a bad joke. But you might learn something! Have a watch.
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I tried replacing the battery cells of my Prius with cans of Le Croix and I also had a major problem.
bought the wrong flavor?
😂😂😂
Elliott Alvis let me guess, you didn’t use the tangerine flavor
Should have used Dr. Pepper you noob!
Try a different flavor
This is the most elaborate La Croix commercial I have ever seen
This is how La Croix makes their flavors.
We live in Denmark What is la croix
@@kennethschultz6465 Flavored seltzer water
LMAO 😂
@@kennethschultz6465 a sparkling water that's flavored. Similar to Perrier
I'm an engine designer working on a new HCCI design, and I thank you from the depths of my heart for providing videos I can link in response to those who say "Why bother? ICE is dead." You've done an excellent job summarizing the problems relating to energy density per unit volume, weight, and cost. I was also pleasantly surprised to see you also covered the lost efficiency during winter driving due to cabin and battery heaters.
People who have grown up watching digital electronics advance under Moore's law often seem to think the same principle applies to all technologies. It does not. Technologies like advanced batteries require breakthroughs in fundamental chemistry and physics, and they can take a very long time. For how many years has fusion power been right around the corner, for example? Even assuming the miracle batter emerges tomorrow, there remains much work to do in infrastructure.
Today, only about 16% of our electricity is generated using clean renewables. If you calculate the energy delivered out of refineries, adjust it for the relative efficiency of electric versus ICE, and then compare the result to our current electric generation and distribution capacity, you will find all-electric requires we increase our electric capacity by a factor of two to four (depending on assumptions). That means we're currently only generating 4-8% of the energy we will need in an all-electric future using clean renewables today. Expanding electric generation and distribution capacity by the amount required is an enormous problem that will take a very long time to solve. ICE technology will not remain stationary in that time.
The big driver behind all-electric is emissions, but that objective becomes moot if we change the fuel used in ICE. Ethanol and biodiesel are well known as carbon neutral fuels, and we're getting better at making them in bulk (I'm particularly excited about the DOE initiative pursuing diesel in farms of genetically modified algae). Gas To Liquid (GTL) fuels are another less well known but proven technology for reducing emissions in ICE. Innovation will no doubt continue on multiple fronts.
In the end, we may well find advanced ICE and electric coexisting throughout the foreseeable future. This will be especially true in aviation, the market for which I am developing an engine.
good points, cellulosic ethanol ICE would seem to be a natural carbon neutral alternative to fossil.
I own both, for good reason :) I use my ice car four or five times a year for the holidays :) my work route EV (even rain days) is purely from solar , 30 miles a day. I’ll never give up ICE or EV :) , short haul EV has huge benefits:) sensible short haul ev , something Tesla hasn’t done yet. Model 3s are a rich mans iphone :) it can be done way cheaper. Which comes with scale.
Internal combustion engine are far from dead. Prius, hydrogen fuel ⛽ cells, Nissan Altima new turbo compression engine is an advancement in ice engines.
What kind of engines do you develop? Piston or turbofan, -jet, ... ?
@@Simon_r2600 It is literally a cam-driven rotating-cylinder two-stroke rotary engine that runs on the Homogeneous Charge Compression Ignition (HCCI) cycle (very high efficiency) in the Low Temperature Combustion (LTC) regime (very low soot and NOx production). See my UA-cam "channel" (really just a few videos) for an overview video, the pinned posts on my LinkedIn profile for some engineering detail, and may patents for more detail (note I was just granted a 3rd that has not yet been published).
I want this guy to examine some of the arguments i have with my wife.
Sorry, bro, you're alone there. No help for you. One thing I can tell you is not to expect logic to work with a woman. It rolls off them like water off a duck's back. To suffer under the female yoke is our lot in life. Josephus Flavius said women are obstinate and air-headed.
We all need this bro :D No one did it so far.
trade her in for a new one.
Doesn't matter, you still lose.
Don't tell me, she's too heavy for the energy she produces, while you might have a bit of a foul tale pipe.
Kilos, pounds, miles, kilometers, gallons, LaCroix cans... What a ride!
This 80,000 lb Truck can travel across 150 football fields on 10,000 LaCroix cans full of electrolyte.
Being a Canadian I had no problem whatsoever following. We use metric and imperial all the time 🤣
How many la croix cans to a board foot? Help me out here
As an American, this was easy to keep up with, IDK why people outside North America complain so much about it. Learn the Imperial system, it is fantastic!
Evirthewarrior imperial system sucks there’s no way you could say it’s better than metric if you ever do any kind of engineering calculations. Metric is all base 10 conversion, not just random fractions base on arm length or wherever imperial came from
nah, La Croix should be thanking you.
and paying you
Automotive Engineer here. Thanks for all the great videos breaking this stuff down and thanks for the shout out.
LaCroix Engineer here. You're welcome as well.
What's your take on the battery's these cars use. Will the water table not be completely contaminated with heavy metals within 20 years.
Please do a similar job on Hydrogen fuel cell vs gasoline / diesel. Great job, appreciated
And Ethanol
@@epatnor I mentioned that under previous videos. I think it's wise to assume that for semi trucks it would be far superior to use hydrogen cells. In case of passenger cars it's quite a tie, not so much with heavy working trucks.
1. Hydrogen storage tends to loose some of the content over time - hydrogen is smallest element and can squeeze out through smallest imperfections. Bad for a passenger car, especially when not used too often. Not relevant for work horse that burns through fuel almost all the time. Lost fuel compared to used fuel would be negligible.
2. Lithium cells are both power storage and "supply" thus increasing storage gives you more instantly available power. Technically you need converted etc but that's small and cheap part compared to big battery. It's fine for light performance cars that can benefit from high power output on demand. Hydrogen tank size does not have to be scaled to hydrogen fuel cells. It's just storage, so you can use much bigger tank without additional cost, weight and space taken by cell. That's perfect for long range applications where you don't care that much about peak power and just want to have a lot of energy to be used over long time.
3. Lithium cells are kind of average regarding cold starts. They are not that efficient in cold, will use lots of power just to heat up cabin etc. It's quite bad for short routes in cold. It's still better than hydrogen cells which can't operate in very cold temperatures. They have to heat up before they start generating electricity, so you need small battery pack to jump start the cell. Is this bad? For daily driven car it might be. For truck spending most of the time on route not so much. Bonus point is that hydrogen cells have less efficiency loosing some energy as heat. In the winter you can use this heat to heat up cabin. Similarly to combustion engines, efficiency loss in cold is less than overall efficiency gain thanks to reusing waste heat (opposed to all electric cars which have lower efficiency and can't really reuse this lost energy as heat source - there's no gain).
4. Quick refueling is very important for semi trucks. You want to put as much fuel as you can in a minutes and go on. Recharging battery pack of this capacity would require lots of electric power making it very hard to avoid overheating.
In overall for such application hydrogen cells have much more advantages than any other electric solutions and might be even better than diesel.
As a side point it's worth to note that some of electric cars solutions are used in semi trucks. One of most known is electric retarder which can charge during braking or driving downhill and can be used on acceleration or to keep up speed. It's not common solution yet but that's a start. Not using all electric trucks does not mean we can't benefit from some solutions that are already there. It would not require that much energy storage, even if battery can hold energy for 10 miles it's more than enough to increase fuel economy.
The Compressed Hydrogen “Battery” VS Lithium Batteries
Storing Energy in Hydrogen IS
1: Highest Energy Density & Lightest in World
2: 100% Charge in 5 min
3: No Toxic Substances
4: Infinite Life
5: No Performance Loss
6: Worlds Only 100% Self Creating Primary Raw Material as byproduct while system is running, which in turn is used for the production of more energy “battery” storage, circular♻️
7: Only 3 Major Raw Materials, 100% Green Sustainable:
1)SUN generates electricity
2)WIND, generates electricity
3)WATER, 75% of Earth is covered by water, stores the Sun & Wind electricity in the form of green hydrogen water electrolysis. When the “battery” is being used (called a green hydrogen fuel cell) it produces water used to store more electricity in. The only Circular Net Zero Emissions Energy Storage and Power System in the World.
If your “battery” energy storage and power system can’t do points 1 to 7, you have the wrong energy “battery” storage and power system.
Cheers,
KP
@@icare7151, you fail to mention how inefficient Hydrogen is which seems to require at least 3x the amount of power per mile when compared to charging batteries. Manufacturing, transporting and using Hydrogen for use in vehicles is very inefficient and expensive atm.
Solar panels can use a lot of toxic chemicals which ends up in the water system when they break.
Wind takes a lot of manufactured materials for each kWh, has a high maintenance per kWh and could be classed as pollution themselves when windfarms sprawl throughout otherwise natural landscapes (birds don't like them).
Globally nuclear seems to be the only way to generate enough power to make Hydrogen work, or even just the global power needs unless we do a China and destroy all nature to cover it with solar panels.
@@icare7151 I’m gonna need some sources to back up your claims, especially the infinite component life. Also, isn’t hydrogen really hard to transport and store?
I’m an automotive engineer but I would also like to thank La Croix
Their was video out years ago about a man who invented an Automotive Engine that ran on Water, that Man was an "Automotive Engineer" your a Keyboard Warrior like everyone else. Even Engineering Explained is small time he does not go into Tesla the Inventor or Energy from Earths Ether, the Onion is large and the layers are many.
You shouldn't judge people.
@@AlienGrade wut
@@AlienGrade I thought you were serious until I read your last sentence
@@AlienGrade Bruh you went full hippie
Hi Engineering Explained, please could you do a video regarding the emissions output of keeping an old car on the road for a long time vs buying new cars every set interval. Which one makes sense when? Thanks! :D
Buy an old Geo Metro. They're reliable as heck, and better on gas than most new cars. I've had my '98 metro for about 3 years with almost no issues, and I don't think there's a single non-hybrid/non-EV car in production that beats it's mileage by more than 5 MPG.
Hes made that video already the emmsion output the build and ship and new car to you local dealer is more then the emissions output of most vehicles if driving till they are unreparible
thatd be a good one. though i suspect the answer will be that keeping the old car, provided it has a cat, forever is the least impactful.
What do you mean by "emissions"? most ppl just talk about CO2...
@@nc3826 things like nitrous oxide, carbon monoxide and sulphur emissions are important for urban environments. Climate change aside, there's a lot of value in electrification just to prove air quality in cities.
I just watched both of your videos about gas v electric cars and am in agreement with you about their pros and cons. However I'm a bit surprised that you didn't touch on how in an electric car, the car has to carry around the weight of the battery pack even once the battery pack has fully discharged. That's gotta be a lot of weight that a gas powered vehicle doesn't have to carry around as it works its way through a tank of gas the tank gets lighter and lighter. It's not a whole of weight on a gas powered car, but Evey little bit helps compared to the dead weight of a spent battery pack. The power weighs nothing, but the pack weighs charged or spent.
The weight of gasoline is negligible when talking about efficiency and it's a 10 min video, he can't cover every nitty gritty detail so he look at the broad picture which he does very well.
The next problem, and the one that I'd love to see you do, is power delivery to a semi truck. Even if the battery is weightless, there's a real issue getting 1MW+ into the "tank" on one of these things. A typical truck stop has dozens of pumps belting out 10-20GPM on their high flow lines. Do the math of filling up 50-100 semis in a hour (like a busy truck stop does today with diesel) and see where that lands you.
You will need a frigging nuclear power plant in each truck stop to get the same results as Diesel.
@@AlldaylongRock A busy truck stop location (like you'd find on an interstate with a stop on all 4 corners of the exit/entrance ramps) yes; that type of location could consume the entire output from a moderate sized nuclear reactor to fill that many trucks quickly.
@@michaelfink2070 Between 178 to 357MWh per hour . Assuming you are charging the equivalent of about 314 gallons per semi (which is 85% of the highest amount of capacity I found)
There's another problem here, how many chargers. Wanna need 50-100 chargers each one taking one whole hour to recharge the semis? Or less chargers that charge at like 600MW or even on the GW side each? That's a lot of draw. So you either have extremely big batteries, or basically an actual full scale reactor. If you want the smaller chargers that take an hour you are looking into 357 MW of constant draw. If you want higher powered charge..
This man is the sole reason LaCroix is still in businesses
Aggg! I'm curious. Can I buy LaCroix in Europe?
"LaCroix gives you Watts"
I've got two cases sitting in our pantry. The stuff tastes terrible. Yuck.
5% if their annual sales was on that table.
he basic
admit it, you made this video just to show off your impressive toy collection
More like his impressive soda can collection. What a show-off!
Rob Edmund I was just about to say that😂
@@robedmund9948 i believe that was why he did the previous video.
Hot wheels!
*Jerry Seinfeld wants to know your location*
Theoretically, internal combustion engines should be more efficient when it's colder outside.
They are
Air density. 👍👍
@@johnjuhasz9125 The efficiency of a heat engine is given by the ratio of the temperature of the cold load (air temperature) to that of the hot load (fuel air mixture during combustion).
@@johnjuhasz9125 Maximum efficiency, I should say...
Not true! They are also less efficient! But considering the difference between EV and ICE, while driving ICE in (extreme) cold, one can use by-produced heat to warm the cabin
Very informative video, thank you so much. You forgot to mention that those LaCroix cans have better build quality than Tesla cars.
Ah, La Croix is a battery. That explains the taste.
Sad we didn’t get to see 20k lbs of LeCroix
That's around half the legal freight capacity of a US tractor trailer.
The reality is, there needs to be a revolution in battery technology whereby said future battery either charges 10X faster or improves energy density by 10X, ideally both. If either of those scenarios happen, it would mark the death of ICE passenger vehicles. Imagine having an EV that gets 4000 miles of range and charges in 10 minutes; nobody would ever buy an ICE when that happens.
Yes, I realize that said future battery is something that basically every company is researching and developing right now, and that it's a monumentally difficult of a problem.
The periodic table of elements might make improving battery energy density by an order or magnitude impossible. Lithium ion batteries have a high charge density relative to other types of batteries because lithium is a small atom and you can pack a lot of them into a small volume. The only elements that are smaller are helium, which is unsuitable of use in batteries for all sorts of reasons, and hydrogen, which is easier to use in a fuel cell but doesn't give you your 10x increase in energy density and which has other problems, like the energy input required to generate it. But even if it should prove possible to improve battery energy density by a factor of ten, there would then be the problem that you'd have a battery with the energy density of TNT, which would make accidental sudden discharge scenarios problematic.
Go read my long (sorry) but complete comment on this. The death knell for ICE HAS sounded, the issue is that so few are willing to look holistically and developmentally at interim, but hugely useful solutions on the way. It's NOT a question of ICE vs battery only but it IS a question of NON-ICE, small battery range hybrid solutions. A radial microturbine can burn just about ANY combustible fluid (gas or liquid) you care to feed it and as it is at LEAST twice as efficient as the best ICE engine it takes half the fuel to go anywhere but being used to charge, at maximum efficiency a battery that provides the acceleration (and power recovery on deceleration) with OPTIMUM fuel usage occuring at all times.
A 4000 mile range is unnecessary because a person cannot drive that far without needing to stop. A modern Tesla has about a 4 hour range but a 30 minute top up at a Supercharger (which in the UK are at most Motorway service stations) will give you a further 90 minutes range. It is recommended that you take a break for every 2 hours of driving anyway, so they are not really far from giving this 2 hours of extra range while you stop for a quick coffee. Technology is moving along fairly quickly; electric cars were not a usable alternative on a long distance drive 10 years ago but there has been a massive improvement in that time.
Either way, I’m not giving up my 5.0 mustang.
@@TheRip72 Read what you said. A 30 minute wait to charge (Assuming you don't also have to wait for a customer ahead of you) is *NOT* a "stop for a quick coffee". That takes 10 minutes or less, not 30 or more. That is not 'a quick stop' at all. Filling up your gas tank, hitting the lou, and buying a coffee to go is a quick stop, 10 minutes tops.
I live 6 miles from downtown Pittsburgh. I'm retired, and rarely do I travel more than 30 miles a day. For me, the 2014 BMW i3 that I bought in 2016 makes perfect sense. Its relatively limited electric range (between 65 and 80 miles depending on the outside temperature) is more than adequate. Even when I was working and commuting 32 miles a day, my first generation i3 would have gotten me to work and back with a side trip to the grocery store or to lunch without a problem. Take my case and multiply it by the millions of people with similar transportation requirements and it becomes clear that electric cars make excellent sense.
One factor that you didn't mention is the time it takes to recharge a battery pack. If my i3 took me only 100 miles on a charge, but could be recharged in 5-10 minutes, it would be a practical vehicle for long distance trips as well as daily drives. Getting charging times down, and making charging stations as ubiquitous as gas stations, is the other side of equation that needs to be solved.
Some sense in what you say, David, but while a petrol pump is only occupied for a few minutes by a refuelling conventional vehicle, a charging battery vehicle will occupy a charging station for a significant period, meaning many more charging stations are needed than petrol pumps. One way out of this conundrum is supercapacitors; supercapacitors recharge really quickly, then can recharge the actual battery over an extended period...
@@Ironic1950 But a relatively large % of the people can and would charge their vehicles at home while you can't have your very own petrol pump at home. "Refueling" your average EV wouldn't be that centralized around electric "gas stations". And while you can't have petrol pumps everywhere (those need serious utility background) you can have charging points almost everywhere where parking is available, at theparking lot, at the hypermarket, or even at your workplace.
Agreed, for when you are local Péter, or doing your commute, but the issue was with long - distance trips, where you are reliant on en-route charge facilities. Increasing numbers of people live in city apartments (where maybe they wouldn't have a car of any sort), so would not be able to 'charge-at-home' very easily, but, as you say, electricity is everywhere in cities...
As he mentions in the beginning this is a follow up to another video and i'm not sure if i remember it perfectly but i think he mentioned issues you are talking about in that video and so that is probably the reason he is not talking about them here.
Sure, it's like a golf cart, good for 18 holes. Charge, lunch, martini
, good to go.
I don't know what any of this means, but I have a strange urge to buy 140 cans of Le Croix.
Then his work is done.
But can you perform the ultimate strategy of putting the 140 cans of La Croix in your youtube video as a prop so you can write them off?
I have a strange urge to buy some hot wheels.
yea but where are you gonna put them? in your stomach? lol
"139 to be exact"
Imagine this man going to his local grocery store and he just turns up at the cash register with 140 cans of La Croix
Eh, just a normal day at Costco
I used to work at target, thats not too far fetched for some people.
Well he seems to be the guy who pops in every math question... A man buys 140 cans of La Croix... hahaha
looks like 5 cases worth.
i honestly think he bought it online by accident, & he's tryna get the most out of it
Really interesting video and I am glad you explored the impact of the EV tech when it comes to Semi-trucks. My family has been in the Sodium Hypochlorite (bleach) production business for over 100 years and I am wondering what these numbers might look like in a "what-if" scenario. So, what if: instead of having both a truck and trailer we were able to operate an autonomously driving tanker that was electric? Currently the average weight of a new tractor is about 16k lbs and a trailer designed to haul our product weighs around 13k lbs so we end up with about 29k lbs before product. The average volume of these trailers is about 5300 gal and a 20% NaOCl solution weighs in at 10.38lbs/gal. This leaves me 51k lbs of capacity which only translates to 4913.29 gal of product. This means that I can never fill my trailers to capacity and realistically we aren't going to go over about 79k lbs since we don't want to risk a ticket. The economics of commodity chemicals mean we don't usually travel more than 250 miles (one location round trip average delivery is only 70 miles) to make a delivery and we always return to base empty - so the return trip would be much lighter and require less energy. So my question is: If an autonomously driving tanker was developed that had a lower total pre-product weight, better drag co and I only wanted to operate these at night (less traffic) at a max speed of 55 mph, hauling one-way, would the efficiencies of current EV batteries pay off? I suppose much of this is subject to how much lighter this imaginary self-driving-tanker would be but I feel like there could be a real application for this in our field. Great series - thank you.
Such a great video. Thanks for making this easier to understand for a simpleton like myself!
Any chance you can make a video explaining the heat pump found in the new Model Y and its impact on battery efficiency and range (in the winter months)?
I see you had some more groceries you needed to deduct from your taxes
Next week, explaining thermodynamics with 12 frozen pizzas and a keg of beer.
For science, or whatever
He should switch to craft beer for more of a buzz - I mean tax write-off
All of your videos give me that "Oh, no, this is the end of the video?" feeling. I could listen to you forever. Great video!!!!
I agree, it's a wonderful series of videos. Very rarely disappoints.
Ray Chang extremely kind of you Ray, thanks a bunch for watching!
@@EngineeringExplained Would you ever consider doing a podcast or longer video (>1 hour)? It'd be cool to listen while on a commute to/from work!
Your presence in front of the camera has gotten so much better. You're doing a better job of explaining without being too monotone and also keeping it interesting. Great job, the growth is awesome.
Very good and intelligent analysis, not simply writing off the issue, explaining why it's not presently viable and identifying where efforts likely need to focus to make it so in the future, nice work mate.
After watching this, I am more than ever curious to the real world specs of the Tesla semi, thanks for a great video 👍🏼
Its not a real world vehicle
It will be for companies to brag about being green .it will be for light loads or delivering things like potato chips
Yeh, I don't think we'll ever see those.
@@dakkanTM gosh this such a clumsy interface, each email reopens utube, getting through my data like mad, so suffice it to say this one last time we need someone more like elon than Mr Toyoda to champion hybridology, the whole what is a truck what is a train has to be rethought !!?!
@@williamgoode9114 yes this is Google levels of clumsy.
The problem with 'rethinking' things is that the underlying physics do not change. What we need is better batteries.
As an automotive engineering student, I'm glad someone actually appreciate this hard work as much as you!
Every car fan respects your work, also almost everyone that watches these videos does, except when you design cars that catch fire :D
@@-na-nomad6247 no one respects evs in the car community though. we ev guys are like the dark net lol
@@OmegaF77 I personally am not a fan of EVs, I just like to feel the vibrations of an engine and hear its sound, I also like manuals and dislike automatic, but these are all matters of taste, when it comes to respect, an ev gets as much respect as any other car, it depends on how well it's built and how efficient/powerful it is.
"hard work" he does it for fun...
FWIW the engineer in us should respect all type of propulsion... and emotional responses, should be respected too.... but we all should want a cleaner world.... even if we have to give up everyone, using an ICEV and that some of us love to hear...to get a cleaner world....
Thanks for hitting the efficiency aspect. I appreciate it.
While looking at those energy stats I thought to myself I would love to hear your take on a hyperloop with regards to haulage.
He's really having fun with whatever editing tool he recently discovered lol. Nice
I loved that part when the second row of cans just magically appeared under his hands :D
@@Ultravore 2:47
excellent - thank you for your follow-up and closing the story including efficiency on petrol engine vs electric
Would love to see something around the efficiency of diesel electric railroad power (the original “production” hybrids) and the feasibility of using similar technology in highway transports.
I really enjoy Jason's videos. What I find impressive is that his calculated conclusions often match up well with information from automotive design engineers. Although I don't have the significant battery "optimism" that he hints at. In my world, valid ideas are followed by money. In the EV battery world, as of last count, possibly as much as $3B in research money is trying to create "ideas" for success with electrochemical energy storage. Discounting the wild claims, what we think is that we've gained 20% more energy density in the near future and possibly as much as 40% in the distant future. That seems to be the sobering reality as of today. Comparisons to the Manhattan project fail, as the physicists knew for over a decade what was possible, and had specific ideas about how to accomplish the task. We don't seem to have that in the EV battery world.
That transition when you doubled the size of the cans was amazing!
Paint magic :))))
james Gand Right as I saw your Comment I look up from my screen and now it’s got another Layer. Lol 😂
I really appreciate how well these explanations bring all the pieces together. Its not a simple problem, but he makes it simpler to understand.
thats how teaching is actually supposed to be but idiots these days dont get it
Unfortunately though it's extremely biased and doesn't consider a wide array of factors. Batteries are reusable, roughly 1300 cycles, at that point the electric car is wayyyyyyyy more efficient and energy dense. Amongst other things.
@@jarrettmontano6776 i don't fully understand the point you are trying to make. First let me say i am very much for electric cars, especially for general everyday use. I still see some issues that i hope will be solved in the next 10 years or so. With the 1300 cycles thing; if i were to use my car everyday and my trips used up most of my battery, then i would only get 3.5 years of life out of that battery roughly. Where i currently live a lot of people quite often drive around 100 to 200 kilometres (62-124 miles) or more every day to get to work, so a round trip of 400km(248miles) is not unexpected. So these people may get an average of 5 to 6 years out of a battery. Replacing the battery is also a bit pricey. I don't see how this extends the energy density, perhaps I'm missing something. From my understanding energy density only refers to the energy that can be packed into a space and the weight of that energy containing package as well.
@@BobsShadow Sorry for the long winded reply. Please stay with me on this.
Maybe this will help. The cycle is about full cycles, not partial cycles. In my Tesla, I have 65,000 miles, and my battery is at 92% of original capacity. I started with 256 miles per charge, now I am at 236. Because of the type of degradation that well maintained batteries experience, most of the degradation is in the first 20,000 miles, which has been my personal experience. Others with higher mileage confirm that degradation slows after the initial drop. Tesla manages their batteries with many thermal and other factors. Other cars, like older leafs, do not do this and their batteries have not fared so well. As an owner with personal experience, I would say your fears are unfounded.
I hope you buy an electric car soon, for your own benefit, they are after all cheaper, safer, quicker, and have lower maintenance costs and have all the semi annual upgrades the gas cars do not offer, not to mention the benefit to your grand children as well as mine.
@@daorym I appreciate your feedback about owning an electric vehicle. Hopefully this response isn't too long winded either. I understand that partial cycles are no where near as hard on lithium batteries. And I hope that my next car can be electric. For my own daily use an electric would be reasonable to run. What I'm trying to get at is why full adoption of electric is not currently possible without some changes, even i would be hard pressed to go without at least a spare car running on gas. I live in an area of extremes, our climate goes from 30 Celsius(86F) in the summer to -40C(-40F) in the winter. The nearest town is 90km away, the nearest large city is 250km, round trip is about 500km(310miles). Most people here would be doing a fair number of full cycles after taking their car somewhere. I'm not trying to be negative, it's just the current state of battery tech isn't equal to some of the tasks currently required. Now most family's here have two vehicles anyway, so if one was electric for daily driving and errands around town, allot of emissions could be saved even here, and that would be great. What we need in my neck of the woods tho is at least 600km(375miles) minimum range for it to become something that would start to make sense to people here, I live in Northern Canada.
Engineering Explained: Buys lots of Hot wheels and toy cars
Old Lady: For you?
Engineering Explained: Oh no, it is for a science class....
Old Lady: Really?
Engineering Explained: Actually, they are teaching aids
Old Lady: Yep right.
Yep teaching AIDS
It's Car Science, so it doesn't count as either math or science! It's just cars explained with numbers. God help us when cars get booster jets or thrusters! Because then it will be rocket science! My rocket science stopped at the time & date of the First Flux Capacitor!
What happens to the efficiency comparison with the gasoline when you factor in the remotely generated energy in the battery? Oil and coal fired power stations are less than 40% efficient, then there are further losses in transmission through the grid. The battery draws its power from that system whereas the IC vehicle uses the fuel directly on board which, to me, still looks more efficient than Remote Emissions Vehicles, which is what EVs are.
You should do a fuel cost comparison for diesel tractor trailer vs electric over the 500k mile lifespan
Great idea. Hopefully he can see this!
the truth are in this parameters. Diesel is way more expensive if you manage to produce cells and packs at lower costs like Tesla.
They are not producing the Semi yet because it is needed too much batteries.
They can put a factory in place in one year if they have the cell supply.
@@guisrtr5832 my question to you is, how is diesel more expensive if it can be made from plant matter? Food waste? Etc. No, one sees it as a great alternative energy source, and it's very renewable... we have some that run off vegetable oil...
Of all the money you saved in fuel, you would lose four times as much in revenue, so you'd be out of business.
@@rsdna9698 what if the truck can drive itself without needing to pay a driver?
Jason:" I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you".
Great video! Please do one for Gas engines Vs HHO engines Vs Hydrogen fuel cells.
Just discovered your channel, really interesting stuff 👍
Regarding this particular video, I think in one yr time we’ll have to redo all the math with ybe new battery solution coming with the upcoming new model S and Roadster by Tesla which looks very promising, specially on battery degradation, which is another issue EVs have today that you didn’t mention in the video
math with imperial units hurts my mind
Same and I am from the US
@@tonycable4560 Works the same. If only we could change time to base 10, the new "universal unit" would be approximately half a meter or 1.5 feet and we could finally have a unit which pertinent to everyday life and not weird ass base 12 or gargantuan units no one can use in everyday life
They’re now called “freedom units”
Why? Get better at doing simple math. What unit is used makes no difference. In general, imperial units are equally as accurate as metric, and in a couple common uses, they are easier to use or more accurate. As an example, for general carpentry, Imperial is a hell of a lot easier to do the math in you head when dividing odd measurements. As for accuracy, it doesn't matter how many decimal places you use, you can never correctly represent 1/3.
Metric much simple😁😁😁.
I live my life one KWH at a time
Love your videos... Can you please do a video about how essential/efficient is regenerative braking to electric cars?
And with all of this we haven't even begun talking about the load placed on the power grid when you're charging all those EVs.
Not fun for frequency regulation.
Or the environmental impact of gas production vs battery production...
@@JJPDESIGNS battery production is nasty for the environment, there is no "green product"!
@@dodgeramsport01 exactly... that's my point....
Well, that did it for me...no way I’m gonna buy that gas-guzzlin’, inefficient Bugatti Chiròn now. I wonder if I can get my $50 deposit back?
🤣🤣🤣👍
Me too, I guess I'll have to settle for a modest Hyundai Kona EV and forget about the $50 deposit.
The Tesla Roadster will smoke check you with no smoke and will run out of juice in about the same time you run out of gas and it will do it all for about 8% of the cost.
Power Electronics test engineer for GM here! ☺️☺️ Thanks for the thanks!
Dude tell someone at GM to get rid of the reverse lights staying on when exiting the vehicle, that is wrong at so many levels.
Tell someone at GM to put a permanent shut off switch for auto start stop also please. That’s very annoying.
@@phrogman4654 I'd really like to know why they started doing that. I know that lighting engineers live and die by federal regulations, so did DOT change something? It scares the hell out of me because I always think the vehicle is about to start rolling backwards.
@@elektro3000 that's not the worst in Australia the Rav4 hybrid only has one working reverse light, as do many new cars out here must be a loop hole to save a few cents, but strangely the bulb and everything is there, so the only saving is in the loom, why do they do this, cars should have TWO reverse lights, a beeper, and Day Running Lights (DRLs) at the front on with the ignition, and in the dark the car should beep at you if you forget to turn on your headlights, like it does with seatbelts it would save many lives !!
William Goode I’ve just googled this for you. It’s a European thing. They have fog lights, that are red. To avoid confusion they limit fog lights to a single light (so braking is always two, fog is always 1). This left a gap at the back on the other side which they fill with reverse lights, obviously this means there’s only a single reverse light. Chances are they just stick to this same concept when shipping to Australia (presumably they ship the UK model of the car and put an AU badge on it). They don’t care about the lack of reverse lights, since it’s obviously legal to have only a single light in AU. At the end of the day it’s probably because we are too small a market to get any actual unique engineering done on our imported cars.
Good video; should be required viewing for most school/university greenies imho.
I'd love to see the size & weight of a gas vs electric engine taken into consideration too. I know it doesn't offset the battery size completely, but I'm curious how much it changes the equation.
👍
So a semi engine is approx 3000-4000 lbs. That includes transmission. But nearly an additional 3000+ lbs for it's batteries exhaust, and fuel system hardware. So ..you've basically swapped weight. He failed to mention that...
4:26
Plus, cold air that's more dense allows the ICE engines to produce a bit more power than in the " normal " operating temperatures.
On the other hand, dense air causes more drag. I forget how much they balance each other out.
Cars with turbos don’t really care since they can probably increase the boost a bit for less dense air.
To produce a bit more power ... by burning a bit more fuel. The engine computer will maintain the stoichiometric ratio of air and fuel, so it pretty much balances out.
Also, the colder and denser ambient air is not only harder to push out of the way, but it also steals more heat energy from the engine. If it gets cold enough, an engine may end up burning extra fuel trying to maintain its normal working temperature.
@@Steve_Mazza There are less pumping losses due to denser air, so there would still be higher fuel economy. The denser air is equally hard for the EV to push through, so it is not relevant.
The engine will not burn extra fuel to maintain working temperature. It is plenty inefficient enough as is.
@@eric4903 I don't see how pumping losses are lower with denser air.
@@Steve_Mazza wait, i thought richer fuel mixture burns at lower temperatures than leaner mixtures... Shouldn't the ecu go for a leaner mixture to raise Temperatures?
5:40 Actually Electrical buses (especially those servicing urban routes or airports) are great to be electric, too.
At typically very short range and low speed, the coefficient of drag and range is much less of a problem for buses--you don't need a bus that can go even 200 miles at 50mph if you are just crossing a city with a stop at every mile.
On the other hand the low speed and frequent stops make the high-efficiency-at-low-speed electric motors and regenerative breaking a godsend that makes electric buses massively more energy efficient than diesel ones, and the lack of need for oil changes also makes maintenance easier.
However, Tesla is not involved much in Electric Buses because Tesla loves to stick with NMC Lithium-ion batteries while electric buses prefer LFP Lithium-ion batteries; LFP is typically bulkier, has less range, and is less temperature tolerant, but they are much cheaper, more environmentally friendly (no nasty cobalt and nickel mining like NMC does, plus much easier to recycle), safer (stable, no thermal runaway like NMC does, rarely explodes), and degrades much slower (lasts 2x to 3x as many cycles as NMC); this makes NMC suited for personal performance/luxury vehicles and LFP for commercial heavy-duty/budget vehicles.
Most electric bus mileages around the world are run by a single model; electric car maker BYD's K9 electric bus has covered over 0.1 Terameters (100,000,000 kilometers) since 2011. It is one of the earliest and most successful commercially-operated electric vehicle.
There's probably 10 semi trucks for every bus, and I'm probably lowballing it by quite a bit. Busses aren't hauling 80,000 lbs, normally, either. He didn't even mention other methods of transportation of goods, like planes, in which the current tech of alternative power is not even worth considering over a combustion engine. Electric has its uses, but right now those uses are niche and expensive.
@@shawnheidingsfelder8179 Battery Density energy will improve with new technologies. Silicon anode Lithium battery rumor to come this Year but when it arrives Semitruck or cars we dont now think Tesla delayed them because of that.
Sweden have a Ferry to Denmark charging time 5 minutes but sick Speed.
doesn't San Francisco have a network of electric buses? I can imagine a cable power system could be intalled on highways, particularly on common high traffic routes.. and semi could be retrofitted with a beam to connect tothe power source??
Short term, I'm placing my bets with Graphene Lithium-ion.
@@erictayet Graphene vs Silicon vs graphite is about the anode of the battery, LFP vs NMC is about the cathode/electrolyte; Lithium-ion batteries need both of them, so they don't really compete against each other, they complement each other.
Me while watching whole video. "Is that a Hot-Wheels Subaru Crosstrek?!?!" at 5:33
I would like to also point out the fuel tank for an ICE gets lighter as it burns fuel. The battery weight is essentially constant whether it fully charged or fully discharged.
Great point!
Thanks for taking the efficiency into account. Comparing energy density in gasoline is like comparing the energy density in firewood. Sure a 15lb oak firewood log has 22kWh of energy, but that doesn't transfer it's energy 100% into making a vehicle move forward either.
I honestly wonder about that. I recall Eustace from Mountain men many years ago having an old pickup truck that ran on wood until he accidentally forgot the ebrake..and. Aaau. Poor truck lol
Yeye
Electric drivetrains are definitely the more efficient option. Unfortunately the production of electricity, as well as the storage of it, needs to make significant gains to compete with fossil fuels.
@@tv-strategies That is certainly true for cross country trucking. Could you imagine 10 trucks in Kansas trying to charge at 1MW each at the same time? You'd take all the power from a 10MW wind turbine assuming it's windy at the moment. There's a long way before (if ever), long haul trucking becomes electric. Local and regional trucking, on the other hand, can benefit immensely. Especially the ones with scheduled daily routes.
*sees thumbnail*
Of course... I always knew the problem was La Croix
Love the hotwheels you used in your demo!
Just realized all your driving clips lately have been around Ann Arbor! I’ve been watching and thinking how familiar the roads and weather looked. There’s some decent driving roads in the Pinckney area, car and driver tests cars up there I believe.
I had this exact subject of efficiency running in my mind after I saw your last video! Thanks for covering this 👍
If you look up the efficiency of a power plant, you're going to discover something few people know - electric cars are about as energy efficient as a typical gasoline powered car. An electric car is basically a natural gas/coal powered vehicle, with some hydro/solar/wind thrown in.
kWh/lbf-mi might be the most amazing unit I've ever seen lmao
coscorrodrift - Unusual, but why amazing? It’s force times distance
@@GH-oi2jf It's just a really bastardized mix of American and metric units. Americans have a very strange relationship to metric.
@@andy16666 Technically, kWh is not a metric unit. The proper metric unit for energy is Joules. Watt-hours is used by the electric industry because energy per hour is a lot more relateable unit than energy per second when calculating your monthly power bill. (1 Wh = 3600 Joules)
brake specific fuel consumption
What about tire sizes? mm/aspect ratio/inches
I appreciate how this video explains the relatability factors for both energy sources. Electric vehicles are best in dense populated areas like cities and have the proper infrastructure to the recharge batteries. However, the most feasible alternative to fossil fuel would be biodiesel for transportation in rural communities or long distance driving would be biodiesel (given that this still have emission). Given variables like weight on the vehicle are some of the reasons why we don’t hear about electrical planes for commercial use. An excellent review on both the pros and cons presented in the video.
There's a couple of things that no one ever talks about with regard to electric cars.
1> Where does that electricity come from to power electric cars. More often than not from the burning of fossil fuels. So one needs factor the initial efficiency of electrical generation to charge these cars into the equation.
2> The reduction of revenue from fuel tax for the construction and maintenance of highway infrastructure.
The government wants us to drive more fuel efficient cars, but they never stop to consider the reduction in tax revenue that necessarily causes. As a result the rest of us who drive gas cars end up subsidizing electric/hybrid drivers in the way of higher gas taxes. A few states are considering surcharges on electric vehicles every year as part of their vehicle registration.
Exactly. All the proponents of EVs tout the elimination of emissions but fail to realize that power production plants which power EVs produce a lot of emissions. The greater strain on the electrical grid isn't something to ignore either.
Hahaha I love this quirky obsession with LA Croix and appreciate the hot wheels and fast and furious reference xD "sorry jesse"
Great video!
Yeah and you would say the same with
Any other brand .. schoookker
@@kennethschultz6465 its not about the brand though. Its the obsession itself which I find funny!
For example, on another UA-cam channel, the Jake and amir show, amir has a funny obsession with chicken nuggets. 😂
I really appreciate you making another video addressing this. I can't help but think of more and more things that should be included in the comparison but these videos can only be so long lol. Keep up the good work.
Thank you for the great explanation. Can you do another video considering "Range Extender" unit
In Phx Az during summer the A/c would reduce some of range? High ambient temps are harder on batteries life?
I find it very convenient that your comparison left out the "Mr. Fusion: Home Energy Reactor".
Car Mike paid off by "big oil"😆
Murdered by the big 3.
Bought and shelved...... go figure...
04:53 Isn't cloning yourself so much fun?
No...he pulled and borrowed him from a parallel universe
To charge that truck battery 80% in 45 min you will need about 1000KW output, For comparison the main fuse in many houses can handle about 11kw before it triggers.
A charging station with just a few stations would require the same grid connection as a town with a thousends of people and the big truckstops with hundreds of trucks pretty much need a dedicated powerstation.
A great compromise between the two worlds is to get a plug in electric vehicle. (A car that use electric and gas)
A 2017 Chevy Volt would do the trick for most folks
Hm idk if I’ve tried tangerine yet. My favorite would have to be grapefruit. Thanks for the video they’re always interesting and informative!
Diesel fuel is actually more efficient than gasoline, so a semi-tractor trailer actually benefits even more from diesel fuel.
Tony Cable
It’s actually a pain in the ass to mix and burn, so efficiency goes down unless you put additives.
Diesel is also more expensive
Diesel is more energy dense than petrol.
A very common sense approach to explaining a fundamental limitation of electric vehicles at this time. It does highlight the fact that not only battery technology needs to improve just as combustion technology with early ICE vehicles, but perhaps new technologies to supply the clean energy need to be introduced. I think this is a very good time to mention the hydrogen fuel cell; I’d be very interested in your perspective in a video on this subject.
Keep these very interesting and technically competent videos coming.
Electric locomotive. 5.4MW of power. 300kN in traction.
Batteries has a long, long way to go
More viable to make trucks a tram/trolly mutation. Road tests are already being conducted
@@rosen9425 would be hilarious to see that in Australia, 1,200 km of overhead cables across the Nullarbor Plain for example 😂
Electric locomotive still uses Diesel engines.
@@johnjuhasz9125
Those are called diesel-electric yes. Those are different.
@@QF_Flyer no problem, IMO. For example - all long range train lines in Russia are electrified. Trans-Siberian Railway is 9,289 km - electrified completely. It is no problem for humanity to run cables for long distances when needed - I don't see how road lines are different from train lines.
I was 3 minutes in and my brain had a seizure from information overload.
Do you smoke cigarettes by any chance ?
I wonder why???
You're not alone! His voice alone gives me math vibes.
All nerd stuff😄
@@JonatasAdoM I watched this at 1.5x speed and my brain is getting a little warm
You can also take into consideration the amount of time it takes to recharge and refuel.
Plot twist: EV's take less time to refuel because you never need to visit a dedicated service station to refuel them, you just plug em in when they are not in use :P
yeah it's a ain in the arse going to a petrol station (always out of my way) then waiting around breathing in toxic fumes, far easier to plug in at home.
@@RWoody1995 it takes you a hour or 2 at a super charger to recharge where it takes me in my tractor less then 10 minutes to refuel over 150 gallons, your math is off, charging at home will take 8 hours or more
@@RonaldCollins If you are staring at your vehicle for 8 hours while at home, then I think you're doing it wrong. The guys above are talking about how much time you're _waiting on the car,_ not how long it takes to charge. It's very uncommon to be able to refuel a ICE vehicle without waiting on it to be finished. But it only takes a few seconds to plug in and out. However, I'd argue that you're not saving that much time in an EV, unless you're charging wirelessly, or your weekly refuel is a detour from your route. For myself, having driven an EV for over 4 years now, I'm not saving time plugging in and out compared to refueling. But I save fumes and money, which is nice.
Let's say you drove the 500 miles, and then you're asked to come back where you came from, or you got another cargo to be carried 300 miles away.
Sure, 15 min on the gas station, a quick trip to the bathroom, the grocery store, blablabla, maybe you spent 20 minutes refueling enough fuel to drive another 500 miles (some stations load faster). That is something you CAN NOT do with electric vehicles, it's what actually keeps electric bikes in the niche category, because they barely have 40 or 60 miles of range at best, and i usually do 100 mile days due to my job, if i want to go out that night, I'll probably have enough gas on the tanknof my bike, if not, it takes 4 minutes to reload enough gas for 280 miles more, unlike electric motorcycles that take at least 3 hours in the quickest charging station, to charge 40 to 60 miles of range.
I enjoyed the Ioniq content, I love my hybrid.
Bad choice
Really appreciate these videos mate. While I live in the frozen north and batteries are mostly a bad idea for outdoors (as is pretty much everything electrical) it’s nice to know. Cause we can’t run gas forever. I know this.
You have to include powertrain weights in your calculations for this to be complete? Nice video.
+1 and exhaust system, and difference in engine weights...
He did mention powertrain weights.
Maybe 4,000 pounds for the complete powertrain. Electric motors are pretty light in comparison but inverters are very heavy. Let's say with everything you're looking at 2,000 pounds for an electric powertrain robust enough for a million mile semi. You're looking at a bare minimum of 18,000 pounds in reduced payload which is huge, and it's likely a lot more than that.
Don't know how I found this channel, but have loved a lot of the videos. Subscribed when I found out he is in Idaho! Best state in the nation!
He drinks the water from Wisconsin the Badger state and Gods country.
Thank you for going more in depth on this discussion. And for noting that energy density of batteries will change as will the weight of batteries needed to power a car. Batteries may never be as energy dense per Kg as gasoline, but they will improve.
But, are you sure about the 40% efficiency number for gasoline engines? The best I could find is 35%. The worst I could find is 12%.
Some gasoline engines switch cycles depending on load and can use something similar to compression ignition
The energy density of batteries can't ever get even close to hydrocarbons, because there's only so much energy you can store in shuffling around ions. The best we can ever hope for is about 10%. You need a different technology for breaking the theoretical limit, like oxidation in fuel cells or something. The solution depends on what your goal is, though. If you want to avoid using fossil fuels, then you can still burn hydrocarbons as long as they're not extracted from fossil fuels and fossil fuels are not burned for energy to produce them.
Btw did some back of napkin math (and looked up weight numbers of standard class 8 trucks), and did some sneaky research. A normal class 8 truck weighs in at about 18,500 lbs with fuel and the Tesla semi with batteries weighs in at estimated 20,000 lbs. Yes the Semi will be heavier but not that much, and I would guess the cost of running on electricity is much less than diesel that it would be worth it for fleet operators.
All this is of course matters for nothing if you haul Le Croix because then your supply would be good where ever you want to go... ;-P
so they'd have maybe the same dry weight but the diesel would have far greater range. So the tesla semi would only be viable for shorter trips with proper infrastructure at either end.
Thanks you for doing the follow up video and including efficiency, spot on!
Except that efficiency should never have been left out in the first place...
Agree, but also this only compares the volume of the energy source and doesn’t account for how much smaller the electric motor is vs the size of the gas engine + transmission.
Yes but the bank of batteries is larger than most new engines and just as heavy.
I have been trying to tell people the same thing, I come from a mechanic/technician background, I like the idea of electric cars, but they could make diesel and gas more energy efficient. I am a big diesel fan. I have had a Grand Cherokee overlan diesel that averages 35mpg over 90k and I have a Chevy Cruze diesel that has averaged 48 over 170000 and I have a gladiator diesel that has gotten me 27mpg on its first road trip of 2300 miles. You seem knowledgeable I would like to chat with you more about why the government crushed the diesel market.
LOVE your vids! However, for this very cool comparison you're doing in this vid, in order to compare Apples to apples, you'd have to start your energy use, cost, efficiency analysis from the actual beginning of the energy journey type being compared (gas vs electric) to when the energy is actually being used in the vehicle... So, for GAS, would have to go from the cost and emissions created from when the crude oil is being pulled out of the ground, shipped to the refinery, then shipped to the gas station, then into the car and burned. W/ electric, have to start from either the natural gas, coal, nuclear, hydro, wind, or solar costs, emissions made throughout the processes, etc. thru the electrical generation processes, the energy lost (EFFICIENCY LOSSES) when making the electricity from whatever source, to transmission efficiency losses, from the power plant thru all of the transformers on way to the house or charging stations, then the charging station power losses, the internal car inverter power losses, and THEN the electric car electric motor power losses when driving the thing. All I saw that you had accounted for were the efficiency and power losses of the electric car motor itself, and no consideration of all of the resources used and spent to generate, transmit, and actually get the electricity into the electric car itself. I believe by not speaking of or even mentioning the electricity generation efficiency losses this isn't a transparent or even close to fiar comparison between the gas and electric car analysis... I realize the electricity generate by renewables aren't free, and definitely have their fair share of emissions and efficiency losses, at least from the manufacturing of the machines that generate renewable electricity. then there are the coal and natural gas power plants that must be taken into consideration, as mentioned. Love your vids, think this may be the first time I've ever commented on one of them. Just trying to help. Especially on such a cool analysis, and w/ such a glaring issue w/ the electricity energy losses missing from w/i the analysis... And you usually are so complete w/ your great scientific theory or evidence based analysis! Keep up the great work! AVID FAN!
Awesome! Excellent video with lots of good points! Currently I am in school for Mechanical Engineering. My dream is to become an Automotive Engineer/Designer.
Thanks for the shoutout! Cheers from FCA engineering 👍🏼
Cheers, and thanks! 🙏
You guys need to work on improving your efficiency.
When talking about EV's, the presumption about their success in the future all points to increasing the efficiency of batteries. A lot. Never a doubt that such improvements are even possible. There are limits of physics, right? E.g., ICE vehicles have improved, and continue to improve, but nowhere near the rate of improvement as they did in the past. Now the improvements are very small, and by using evermore exotic and complex technologies to make it happen. Same is happening with solar panels and wind turbines: the improvements were great in the early stages of development, but now the improvements are increasingly fine and small. And I recall Mercedes dismissing Elon Musk's claims of battery development, stating limits of physics.
Mercedes has just put out a test car where they reached 1200km/750MI in one charge. Key is half the consumption per KM and twice the energy density of the battery.
Do you think regenerative braking will ever fully replace the need for disk brakes at all 4 corners?
I get that we'll always need some sort of emergency/parking backup, just it would be so nice to remove the unsprung/rotational mass!
No.
Remind me if you did a video on the 41% thermal efficiency of the Toyota 2.0L Dynamic Force 4-cylinder engine.
he did.
Why not just scroll through his videos quick instead of hoping someone answers and that you actually get the notification?
@@starvalkyrie Thank you.
Because people drive in the efficiency band all of the time?
AlanTheBeast100
In the city, you don’t. In the highway, yes.
That was a very pleasant ten minutes of my life
Jackson Stock very kind of you, thanks for watching!
@@EngineeringExplained Yo, Jason, could you please do Fiat Twin Air engine? It has 2 pistons but they move as if they were a single piston, both at same time. It would be super interesting to hear your take on that engine, pros and cons. It was engine of the year when it first appeared.
Be good to do a video on how rapidly energy density in batteries are improving over time v gasoline over the same time
Gasoline probably still better
You made this video with quite much humor, very good! The video editing must have taken some time!
Can we talk about recharging and refilling now?
This. If you're on the way to work and realize you forgot to get gas, it's not a big deal to stop and fill up. If you forget to plug in your EV the previous night, and you realize it on the way to work...well, it's a little more significant. Don't get me wrong I don't dislike EVs, I just think they're held back by current battery technology.
@@Motoboo_Marine Spot on. Recently watched his video about a 1963mi road trip in his Tesla. Spent ~8hrs at supergharging stations along the way. He said he mostly went to a restaurant and ate while the car charged. The charging station near my house is at a gas station (Wawa) where you can get a sandwich "to-go" but you would have to cross a 6-lane road and a bit more hiking to get to any sort of a sit-down restaurant. Somehow spending 5 minutes to get 400 miles of range vs an hour or so to get ~300 is of no comparison. Also, for his trip he "saved" $40 in energy costs by spending $0.28/kWh vs $3/gal. I paid $2.07/gal yesterday. At $2.10/gal and his numbers, I would have saved $20 vs electric for the same trip.
@@Motoboo_Marine my point exactly. I wouldn't take an EV on a road trip. Say I need to refill my tank, I stop at the next gastation I see, and be in and out in 10 mins. Maybe more like 30 if there's a diner and I wanna grab a bite to eat... with an EV (now I could be wrong with this) at a tesla supercharger, I'll be there at least 40 mins. And superchargers are very specific over where they are. There is also the question of running outta gas or draining the battery. With An ICE, I could have an extra jerry can of fuel in my trunk, just in case. Enough fuel for me to get to the next station to refill the emergency can and my tank. With an EV, I'm fucked. There's no way outta there other than a tow.
I would happily own a EV for my in city commute, but I wouldn't take it any more that 20 miles outta the city.
I do dislike electrics. They are a gimmick at best.
@@Chrisadeth not to mention that there may not be a charging spot open. Unlike a fuel pump which may be occupied for only 15 minutes as the driver is inconsiderate and stayed parked there after fueling and went inside to take a dump, the charging station may not have spots open up for up to 45 minutes if you're unlucky.
As someone who drives a semi for a living, I'll be long gone by the time there's a viable electric semi. I often haul 42,000 pound loads and I can attest to rolling resistance. Or climbing a grade.
@John Buick Diesel-electric hybrid could still work and work quite well, it moves trains just fine. I think that'll be the next jump before all electric. Honestly the technical advances in energy storage required to make all electric truly viable and competitive with ICE engines would turn the world so far upside down that being able to haul semi loads would be one of the smaller achievements.
Brohemoth, a diesel electric loco is not a hybrid in the same sense that a hybrid vehicle is. The idea in question here is using ICE versus batteries for energy. You probably know all this but it sounded as if you were saying locomotives use some battery power locomotion.
@@tradcon3096 They don't and you're correct, my point was that you can just have an ICE engine generating electricity that then gets sent to the wheels and/or a battery. This massively extends range and if configured properly would also have an extremely small emissions output. You need 300-400hp to move a car if you're physically driving the wheels, but if you're just making electricity for traction motors you only need 40-80hp. Plus the ICE would just be running at a constant set RPM and could be tuned to run ridiculously clean without much issue. The end user would also still have good to great performance, really only limited by the traction motors in the wheels.
This would also massively cut down on weight at the expense of more mechanical and technical complexity.
At the current rate of advancement, we will get there in my lifetime. As long as the movement is supported, then we can get off of fossil fuels.
@@BigBoyXP4014 or if you really way you can run a turbine instead of a piston engine (increasing efficiency) at a high RPM and let the electric drive train do the rest
How about looking at the net environmental impact/cost of electric vehicles by taking into account the materials/lifespan of the batteries as well as the electricity generation vs gasoline engines/gasoline. It is not necessarily easy to quantify but electricity is often produced by hydrocarbon fuels at a distance and the batteries themselves are made of expensive materials. I am wondering how it balances out when looking at it from a larger perspective. Thanks.
This video does a fine job of comparing the energy density of "finished fuel". Unfortunately, we are missing a critical component throughout this comparison: The amount of energy consumed to create that gallon of gasoline compared to the amount of energy consumed to manufacture, distribute and fill the batteries. The challenge in comparing one fuel source and it's related vehicle with another is extremely complex! Let me be more clear in this:
When considering the amount of energy necessary to create a gallon of gasoline, we must take into consideration the costs to manufacture the drilling equipment, the lifting equipment, the transportation equipment, crude oil storage containers, crude oil shipping costs and the power consumed by the refinery to extract one gallon of gasoline from raw crude. But, the equation doesn't stop there! We need to take into consideration the energy consumed to transport the gasoline, store the gasoline and then pump the gasoline into the tank of the vehicle. Unfortunately, the complexity in this comparison doesn't stop there either! We need to take into consideration the amount of energy consumed to develop, design and build an internal combustion engine to consume that one gallon of gasoline. But wait! There's more! What are the long-term costs (and energy consumed) for maintaining and repairing an internal combustion engine vs. an electrical motor?
Summary: We don't need a PhD to know that there is much more to this story than just energy density. What we do need, is a fleet of bots (or bored techies) to invest time and effort determining the total cost and total energy consumed in a pure-electrical vs. fossil fuel environment. Let's keep looking!
Thank you.
The video author conveniently forgot to mention a lot of things in addition to what you brought up, including powertrain efficiency (which is as big a factor as the energy density of the batteries).
I don't know his background, but clearly he has a poor understanding of the integrated systems and how they compare rather than just his narrow focus here.