Ex-Astronaut Issues Dire Warning for NASA's Artemis II Mission
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- Опубліковано 5 лют 2025
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I interviewed Chales Camarda, a former NASA astronaut who flew on the return to flight after the Columbia tragedy. He worked at NASA for 45 years and is quite concerned that NASA plans to fly Artemis II with an unmodified heat shield. I think this is a very important story to tell and I hope you appreciate it.
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If you think this is an important story, please SHARE IT!
I think Jared has the potential to be awesome as NASA administrator but it's not like being in charge of your own company where you control your own money. Ultimately Congress holds the purse strings and so if he cancels SLS or something like that then senators will rebel like when Obama cancelled Constellation and then SLS gets reborn in some new form and forced on NASA, again...
Just shared it with a NASA former contractor.
Thanks Elle for all the Great and IMPORTANT info you bring us.
YT being annoying and deleting comments...
I think Jared has the potential to be a great administrator of NASA but ultimately NASA is beholden to Congress that controls the purse strings and so if he were to say cancel SLS some senators will rebel like when Obama cancelled Constellation and then we are back to square one again.
YT being annoying and deleting comments...
I think Jared has the potential to be a great administrator of NASA but ultimately NASA is beholden to Congress that controls the purse strings and so if he were to say cancel SLS some senators will rebel like when Obama cancelled Constellation and then we are back to square one again.
Channel rapidly becoming one of the most interesting, serious, and important places for real journalism in modern spaceflight.
"for real journalism"
She would never dare to say that moon landings were fake.
Hopefully Isaacman will be strong enough to say "NO, let's get it right, whatever it takes." From what I can tell, his style is a "shout out if you see something wrong, with no blame, no repercussions and no secrecy. Let's just understand and fix it" one, which is what NASA needs.
Totally agree, well said
But if Trump doesn't get immediate results then Isaacman will be fired, and then the next guy will say F#$% to all safety concerns; gotta please the orange dictator.
This is how every interview should be.
Ask intelligent, well-researched questions, allow the interviewee to complete their answers without interruption, and pay total attention to what one's saying.
Well done Allie.
I have faith that Isaacman will take the opposite approach, just like Elon does, and will revolutionize NASA.
The Shuttle is an unbelievably amazing vehicle, an awesome technological feat. But goddamn if it didn't set the US Space program back 50 years.
Yup, all so true. Let's pray Isaacman does better (he will!).
Уважаемый, не США отбросило на 50 лет назад, а истеблишмент Америки запретил (интригами, тайными договорами с СССР) осваивать землянам космос! Ни одна из стран сейчас не показывает настоящих (не фальшивых, не киношных) достижений в космосе!
-----> "The Shuttle is an unbelievably amazing vehicle, an awesome technological feat."
Truth is, the Shuttle was a poorly conceived system that achieved many amazing things technologically and even educationally. But it was a highly limited system, with a lot of design flaws that were never worked out.
-----> "But goddamn if it didn't set the US Space program back 50 years."
In time and money.
Retro spam canning with throw away mega rockets is what is setting us back
@StaryginJuri I think what's missing with the secret backroom conspiracy idea is a motive. If it's budgetary, well there have been similar treaties done entirely above-board like the London and Washington Naval Treaties to keep overspending on battle fleets from overtaxing budgets; they didn't need secrecy to do that. If the motive were something to do with scary space aliens, I just don't see that being a major driving force; uniting people under a single banner to face an extraterrestrial threat would be extremely appealing to people in power, because it allows for substantially more power to be concentrated.
Another superb interview asking the right questions of the right people. Great work.
Glad you enjoyed it! I hope this is taken seriously
@@ellieinspace Me too. I think Jared will do a good job of instilling a decent safety culture. He didn't build Draken by taking unnecessary risks.
So, ultimately, NASA has a problem with honesty. This was obvious with Columbia - so many of us were saying they needed to examine that leading edge, even if it meant keeping the astronauts up there for a long time. We weren't surprised by the disaster. And when we heard them saying that second Starliner test "went perfectly," when we damn well knew it wasn't...then they send up astronauts and the navigation software on Starliner wasn't the same as what went up on the prior test?!?! Frankly, it's amazing they didn't bring the astronauts back on Starliner - even tho' it came back safe, that was the right thing to do. And RESTRICTING THE PHOTOS OF ORION'S HEATSHIELD?!?! Absolutely dishonest. And sheesh, let's not even go into Challenger. So much institutional dishonesty!!!
When your organisation's reputation matters more than flight safety, let alone people's lives, it's time to pack up.
Never a straight answer
----> "So, ultimately, NASA has a problem with honesty. This was obvious with Columbia"
Worse! NASA has a cultural problem, mainly because its a government Bureaucracy who's fate is tied to the whims of politicians in Washington DC for its survival. This affects everything from the inefficiency of its logistical supply chain, to its approach on how it builds rockets. The logistics of launching a rocket out of Cape is literally bouncing resources all over the United States like playing a pin ball game. Engines made in California. Fuel made in Utah. Testing, storage and propulsion research in Alabama. Astronaut training and Mission control in Texas. Launch pads in Florida and California make sense because of elliptical and polar orbit launches. But members of Congress put a lot of weight on NASA in order to push jobs in their states. Every program NASA has, they have to beg congress for money. Unlike SpaceX, NASA cant just slap together a bunch of rocket prototypes and openly destroy them for the sake of engineering a robust vehicle. It sends a voters running to Congress in panic, crying, "Do Something!!! NASA's stuff is blowing up. It could kill someone if they board it! They are throwing away our tax dollars!" So NASA has to try and make the perfect timex on the launchpad. Minimize the amount of flight tests needed. Draw as little negative PR attention as possible. Sure, the rockets get off the pad pretty successfully, and seems safe. But they have design flaws, some of which go undiscovered until well within the activity of the manned program. Some of those discovered flaws are fixed and some they just live with. But these design flaws are how you got the spark that caused the fire of Apollo 1(yes having an O2 environment was stupid). This is how you got constant POGO programs with the Saturn V that put every flight at risk. Apollo 6 was almost aborted. Apollo 13 lost the center engine on 2C from Pogo. About half the Apollo manned missions had glitches and something malfunctioning. Apollo 13 O2 tank was a major design flaw. Challenger center engine failure was from a big design flaw. The Challenger O-ring issue that destroyed the shuttle was a major design flaw. Columbia foam impacts were a combo of design flaws from the tank to the tiles. All because NASA doesn't do ramped flight testing! Flight testing is the only sure way to discover hidden flaws and work them out. Sometimes that requires doing major changes. By the way, tryin to build a timex on the launch pad is why NASA ends up spending way more money and getting way more delayed, than SpaceX, "just build it and launch it. See what happens and learn from it," approach.
.
@@TheJTcreate Ah! "Pork barrel" politics. It's a damn shame.
Normalisation of deviation is a key threat to a robust safety culture that is well acknowledged in modern engineering practices. It's alarming to hear that such weak signals are apparently not being scrutinised at NASA to this day. I hope this video prompts an important conversation about the future of Artemis from a safety point of view.
Make sure Isaacson sees this video. He should meet with this man.
Ellie, stop saying "I am not technically savvy". You have become one of the most savvy podcasters! Great video!
Aw thanks, I appreciate that! 😊 I’ve def learned a lot after nearly 4 years of Ellie in Space!
I was working in the LCC at KSC at the time when Columbia accident happened. I am retired now after 20 years there but I am still haunted to this day about what happened. I lost my dream job after the program was cancelled. We were all given a copy of the book: CAIB (Columbia Accident Investigation Board) report. I read the whole thing because I was curious how this could have happened. The decisions made that day and before were horrendous. The decision to not try and rescue those astronauts was because of ego of some flow director. We had a Shuttle on the pad at the time and could have sent it up to rescue them but crossed their fingers and said no. BTW, Ellie, you are an awesome space reporter and glad you are covering these important issues with NASA. I hope Jared takes steps to end this culture at NASA. Thanks Ellie.
If the heatshield erosion isn't linear, they might not have the margins they think they do. Once it starts going if all the more turbulent plasma starts breaking down the HS faster, we're in trouble.
On top of that, if I understand correctly the second flight capsule will be heavier and therefore it will be impacted more... So it is all down to chance at this point. 50/50, they might be OK or they might be not. We just don't know and can't say for sure.
Actually, it's the crew that is in trouble. We only have to go through a week of funerals and listening to a month of finger pointing.- then wait for the next one.
Ellie, Thanks for not shortening this. It was eye opening. I really think you need to go to Smarter Every Day episode 293 titled "I was scared to say this to Nasa". In it Destin references a NASA document, SP287, "What made Apollo a success". I believe it is directly connected to your subject. Please keep up the good work. I think we're all excited to see what Jared does. Although my personal opinion is Artemis must go, I am in no way smart enough to make that decision. (I am just a retired Orthopaedic Surgeon) It is not something that should be made by the opinions of the masses but should be thought out carefully, still taking into account outside thought. You know what they say about opinions. They are like a certain area of the body, everybody has one.
I’ve seen Destin’s episode when it came out initially and tried to do an interview with him
Hopefully this video gets shared far and wide as well
I would love that interview! Destin seems great.
@ Like Ellie, I watched Destin's episode 293 when it came out. I'm now going to go back and watch it again even though it's an hour long. But what obviously stuck with me was SP287, the NASA document I mentioned. if you're interested enough to have watched Ellie's episode, I suggest you at least try and find that document which should be publicly available. I'm gonna do that right now. Thanks for the reply Bill. Go Jarad and NASA.
Agreed! That episode was powerful
I was thinking about the very same episode...and what Destin stated about the choice to remain in such a high elliptical lunar orbit !
Dude!! That repair kit was pure genius. NASA needs this guy right now.
Well done! This was probably the most important and timely video that anyone covering spaceflight has done to date. Thanks for not shortening it!
Glad you liked it! It needs to be heard.
Thanks for taking the time to watch it
Great interview Ellie. These issues with NASA have been obvious for decades now. I wish Jerad all the skills in the world to change the toxic, anti engineer culture there. He is a brave man to take on this challenge.
Let's hope Jared Isaacman can bring new vision and urgency to NASA.
I’m thinking he will
Let's hope Jared Isaacman can bring sanity and intelligence to NASA
Fixed for you 😉
But let’s hope he doesn’t insist on using Starship, which would be an even bigger disaster waiting to happen.
@@keithparker6520 At least it will be required to do 7 unmanned flights without changes to the design before it being human rated. The SLS is not human rated by NASA's own standards.
Excellent interview! Ellie - you are becoming the preeminent interviewer in space society. Well done!
Wow, that’s a very nice compliment, thank you
Each employee should have a framed picture of the souls lost in these missions so they can look them in the eyes when they make these calls for deviation normalization
I remember Jack B from NSF streaming live from the landing and recovery of Orion and even with the limited viewing angles he had available it was pretty clear there was substantial damage to the heat shield. But it was even worse than that and not caused by splashdown which I originally thought...
Good to shine a spotlight on this issue Ellie!
Thanks for having the COURAGE to present this episode; too many people simply cheer on whatever NASA decides to do without considering the human cost of failure. Your channel has become one of my "Go-To" channels when there are issues to seriously consider, along with Tim Dodd, Scott Manley, Marcus House, Felix Schlang, and Angry Astronaut.
I believe that Jared Isaacman will make an excellent administrator because he's put his own ass on the line by testing a new space suit on a space walk PERSONALLY, and understands that there are engineering issues with Artemis 2. The reentry heat shield seems to be a real problem that needs to be seriously handled and not "studied" before making another fatal decision.
Listening to his podcast, I was struck by how seriously concerned he was during his own return to flight mission and how hard they had to pull to try to transform the culture even just after they lost Columbia. Glad to hear him speaking out about the Artemis heatshield.
Another excellent interview! The Columbia investigation is the best accident report I've ever read, simple and straightforward solutions which were all ignored.
Ellie, you are doing a great service to NASA, SpaceX, and the Country!
You are doing reporting without bias, that can cause an effect.
This is very powerful, keep it up...
Ellie, I am an engineer but applied to NASA in 1974 to be an astronaut in the Apollo Space Program. Thanks for the interesting video. Elon and SpaceX are my choices.
I was the project manager and civil engineer. I worked as an engineer in Singapore from 1999 to 2005. We designed and constructed twelve-kilometre tunnels with two boring tunnel machines and five stations. I also managed 160 engineers and architects. I have been a contract engineer since 1975, Constructing sewage and water treatment plants from Melbourne to Cairns.
🤗Cheers, Ian Cleland
Sounds exciting! Sounds like the world is your oyster!
Awesome experience man!
This is really hard-hitting journalism! Exposing the ugly truth. Are we seeing all the dirty laundry aired BEFORE some more NASA astronauts die in an unsafe vehicle? This kind of thing has to be done. As others say, this "normalization of deviance" has to stop. Mahalo for this interview, Ellie. You're brilliant.
Very worth your efforts, sound the alarm. My brother-in-law was the ground astronaut for North American Rockwell on the Challenger. He had the very same concerns about the program…..
Yet another great interview, Ellie! I hope those new people in charge are well informed on the issue and interested to investigate it and evaluate if and how (if actually necessary) to address it.
I just bought this guy’s book. Thanks so much for this interview.
What a fantastic interview! Thank you for doing this.
I think more people need to listen to this! I don’t want another Columbia disaster 😫
ya but how many flights is SLS-orion going to make before its discontinued? We're only talking about a few trips before starship takes over. If they cancel artemis we'll never make it to the moon in the 2020s.
A very fine piece of journalism. Thank you, I learned a lot.
Does anyone remember the Columbia post-accident press conference? Everyone in the room other than Ron Dittemore, the shuttle program manager, knew what had happened and what the proximate cause was. He was in complete denial.
I GOT THE BOOK!
The issues in my own career are the same exact issues described here. i'm in a computer tech industry, with problems just like Boeing and NASA. these issues are widespread. the tech industries among many others are institutions that have been captured by a cultural force characterized by a "Managerial Class". these are people who don't know or care about the engineering, quality or longevity, they only care about short term goals, money, power, personal career success. they are the very people who "climb the ladder", and become the super spreaders of toxic destructive business culture. Isaacman alone can't do anything to change NASA unless he cracks heads at the top. we must fix the core systemic culture problems.
It penetrated deep unto the society itself, NASA is just a part of it. You witness it in Linux "open source" becoming politically opinionated and pulling every single contribution if it's made not by politically correct countries of their choice and everyone who questions it gets banned. That's the epitome of toxic - the very source of the toxic culture. That penetrated deep into the society and we are witnessing it first row seats, and are experiencing it on a daily basis. Which is done so systemically on a governmental level.
Another excellent interview - this time confirming what most techies outside of NASA have been saying for years, but from a voice originating inside of NASA. Thank you.
Informative video thanks
Glad it was helpful!🎉
So, so glad that he is being heard. And that Ellie--bless her--is covering this.
And--IN ADDITION TO the heat-shield issue--the Orion / Artemis life support system has NOT yet been fully tested. There needs to be a full test of it, in an UNMANNED Artemis flight, BEFORE a manned Artemis flight.
That heat shield looks absolutely slaughtered... Let's hope with the new administration Orion will no longer be used for Artemis
This is shaping up to look like Challenger, known major issues previous to flight but still launched due to the politics of delaying the launch.
Incredible interview!
Thank you, please share
Ellie this was one of the best interviews you have done to date, along with Homer. This is important info that needs to get out about NASA and its culture. We in the space community appreciate your passion and curiosity in reporting.
Ellie. My late mentor worked on Apollo at a fairly high level, and was mad at himself that he didn’t speak up more loudly about the oxygen issue that burned Apollo. He had design oversight over all electronics and was still trapped by the cultural problems; They really go back that far.
So what I’m saying is this video is awesome and you need to push this line of investigation hard. Pretty please.
It is so frustrating that NASA can not get something right today that they had no serious issues with in the late 1960s - early 70s,
Given how expensive Artemis is, there is absolutely no reason to cut corners on something so vital like the heat shield.
That only one Apollo crew died was a miracle, and was in part because Apollo had no budget limitations. And it had an engineer, Werner von Braun, making all the decisions. Today NASA is headed by a senile POLITICIAN with no engineering or military experience.
They had Germans like Von Braun working for them back then that did some horrid .rimes. Now they don't. That explains that.
Ellie, another great scoop!!!!! Well done!! You are "the real deal!" You are a serious journalist. I hope that Jared is listening.
Perfect: you should never listen to astronauts/engineers with many decades of management, design and flight experience. You should instead listen to bean counters who wouldn't recognize a rocket if it came out from under their desk and bit their ankles.
Way to go NASA.
I love this Charles guy 👍 he obviously did some great things. Its a bit nutty that no one will listen to a word he says... 🤷♂️
So the heat shield isn't the problem, it's the entry profile. By doing a skip maneuver the heat shield has a chance to cool and trap outgassing. Once the heat shield heats up a second time, those gases have no where to go except pop off the ablatives.
Great content Ellie,,,,thanks for making it,,,,,,,
Yea idk why the video is bombing so hard 🥺
When the interview first started, it seemed like this was just an old retired guy who was bitter but after listening to the entire show I've changed my mind. NASA is in trouble and has lost the ability to innovate and reason out and solve problems efficiently and completely. I said a few years ago when I first saw Bill Nelson on the podium that he was a pencil pusher and spreadsheet expert - maybe my first impression of him was more correct than not?
The male "fixer" in me says... just pass this over to SpaceX and let them work on the heat shield. Great interview and I hope the right people at NASA see this. EIS is awesome.
OMG This is scary, and very important. I was lucky enough to watch the landing on the moon, I was 6 years old LOL. My wonderful neighbors gave me an Observers book of Spaceflight then. Years later Colonel James Irwin visited my school & his lecture was fantastic. Great job Ellie Quick addition, Jared will be fantastic & will lead NASA forwards.
The big problem with NASA'S heatshield and even SpaceX use of ceramic tiles is they both are underutilized. Their use of extreme aerobreaking for reentry is also very ineffective, especially for claims for rapid reusability of spacecraft. The 'sweetspot' of TPS, aerobreaking, ablation, and active cooling use for spacecraft has yet to be investigated before it can even be achieved. So until we get our head out of our A$$, Space exploration, human colonization of other worlds, and rapid reusability of spacecraft is just wishful thinking and good storyline for more SciFi TV and movie disasters.
great video Ellie as always easily one of the best channels for all space related content
The funny thing about the dissenting opinions bit is that after Columbia NASA set up some kind of system for people who had those opinions so that they could be heard by management
Allegedly.
Yeah heard the same thing after Challenger. Look where that got us!
Thanks for bringing Charlie and it was very interesting and insightful😊😊
Wow, this was great. Chales Camarda was fantastic to listen to and quite inspiring to me!
Great interview Ellie! Thanks for getting this out there. I watched from start to finish!
Great vidio. Thanks to the two of you. Hope the right people vieww this and take it to heart.
Great interview! Very thought provoking. Thanks Ellie!
Very good interview, with a smart common sense man of knowledge. I’m very hopeful Jared Isaacman will change the direction of leadership in NASA.
Great guest and interview. Well done.
Highlights the difficulty of changing corporate culture.
Interesting revelation: In complex systems, pay attention to weak signals. I'm a software tester and I always feel nervous if some fault occasionally occurs and the prevailing mood is to treat it as an intermittent or environment issue that should not happen in Prod so lets push on and see if it happens again.
Hi, Ellie. Thanks for keeping the full story and running long on your video. Sad to hear that NASA has strayed so far from its NACA research roots. Tough decisions ahead.
What a fabulous episode thank you so much for all your hard work
This is unbelievable, and it should be signal boosted. You brought up how the Starliner blew up in the media and in peoples attention. I feel like thats the only thing that works these days. Companies and organizations just dont give af until enough people bring enough attention. I kind of knew about the heat shield problem but was always under the impression we actually DID learn from the shuttle disasters. Its so shameful i can't believe it.
Great interview again. You are the best space related interviewer out there. Great job.
Ellie, this is investigative journalism AT IT'S BEST!
Well done!
Thanks Ellie. Awesome interview!! Listened to this twice so far. Wow. Shocking!! Thank God Charles Camarda wrote a book about it and you're helping get the word out. It was bad enough we lost the souls on Challenger. The Columbia was just even more heart-breaking. I can't believe some of the people who made the decision that led to this are still around!?? 😱 And, the Orion capsule heat shield cover-up attempts and that they'll change the angle of entry is just stupid. Anybody can see that it was a disaster and can't be used again. SpaceX could fix it easily. But, why bother?
Nice production. Great script and narration. Excellent use of archived footage.
WHY are we using segmented SRBs with rubber o-ring seals for human spaceflight???
NASA did not even accept bids for alternative designs. Northrop got the contract with no competition!
CANCEL ARTEMIS!
Incredible Initiative Ellein💫
These interviews are great, Ellie. Congrats.
AFAIK they’re using the same heat shield but they’re changing the entry trajectory. The trajectory was the problem, not the heat shield?
And NASA has only run two tests of its TPS. SpaceX has already carried out four tests of its TPS, and has already changed its design TWICE. Since SpaceX intends to conduct a HUNDRED reentry tests before carrying passengers! How many changes in the design will that involve?
Did you not listen to the reason the heatshield failed in the last Orion test? Changing a tried and tested design ( honeycomb Avcoat ) to an inferior one ( Large blocks of Avcoat )is a bad decision especially when the knowledge has already been acquired and proved safe and reliable on Apollo 50 years ago.
Great interview Ellie
This video needs to be shared and considered carefully hopefully the right people see this
Again, thank you for your investigation and story.
Your best interview on the channel so far, thanks Ellie!
Let the man talk. That was amazing.
Another excellent piece of journalism!
Ellie, I love your interest in space. Thanks for the great content. I just recently interviewed for Space X Starbase.
Great interview. I remember when real journalists used to pay attention to guys like this who would criticize government agencies instead of covering for them like they do now. I think most people have had a sense for a while that NASA is sort of a floundering organization, if for no other reason than their lack of advancing humans into space, but guys like this know and know why. I hope Isaacman reboots NASA and gets it back to the awesome agency it was in the 60s and 70s.
Ellie… Excellent report, I agree with everything he said. This program has to be canceled. It has to be moved to specials. The entire art program said it will be successful.👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Very unique and interesting view on NASA culture! Nice peace of journalism 👍
Nailed it. Thanks Ellie.
To make anything safe, you need to make it reliable, to make it reliable you need to do it a lot, to launch to space a lot without risking crews you have to fly cargo. That's the basic weakness at NASA, they seem insistant on trying to fly crew on new launch systems, it's just wrong headed. Falcon and Soyuz have both flown a heck of a lot with cargo, so when astronaughts do ride on top a lot of opportunities for failure have been worked through. With Falcon it's even better as the reusability means inspection of most of the rocket so all the bits that didn't quite fail can also be caught. Simulation and ground tests don't count.. you have to actually do real launches to really test all aspects. Sims and tests help, but they're not the complete solution.
NASA need to stop trying to fly crew within the first couple of flights of a new launch system. SpaceX are planning to have done over 100 flights of starship before letting crew anywhere near it. That's the way forward.
Of course, when you have people telling you there are problems you also need to listen.
Great one, Ellie and Charlie.
Excellent interview!
Challenger's STS-8 flight (Aug. 1983) would have burned through the booster o-ring had it fired a few seconds longer. It was 2 years later when it did happen with STS-51L. It was
like they took the attitude of "Well, it didn't burn all the way through. We're good!".
Let's not forget the close call Atlantis had, it was only luck that she wasn't lost as well. NASA is supposed to be an engineering organization, not a management group. Hopefully the change in leadership will turn things around. Thanks Ellie & Charlie!🚀👍
Amazing interview!
I agree with Charles points and his voice needs to be heard. When he says NASA needs to go I would refine it to their human space systems. The space exploration won't be done or managed by anyone else. Charles' also mentioned the need for multiple groups competing for the best solutions, something that is not routinely done in commercial enterprises.
Great interview Ellie!!
Great work, thank you.
Great video Ellie!
Hey Ellie - Thank you for this incredibly important interview. One of your best videos ever! Hope NASA changes.
Excellent interview
Another great interview
Keep up the great interviews!
A subtle negative pressure is the "No room for failure" - which frowns at taking a second look at a system that has been used in the past. Because nothing is perfect, and everything needs exercised and changed to improve.
Great interview Ellie.
Really interesting 😮thanks Elle
Not an enjoyable video for those fascinated with space exploration and technology. But I/we are very grateful you made it Ellie.
I would hope the new NASA leader Jared Isaacman will surround himself with 2IC people who augment his ability to implement the needed culture changes and play to his strengths as an experienced spacer.