Demon Slayer & Chainsaw Man: Two Opposing Forces of Shonen Jump - Shonen Theory
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- Опубліковано 19 лип 2024
- Maybe we can talk one day, Jujutsu Kaisen.
○ Written Review:
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○ Chapters:
0:00 Introduction
1:32 The Framework of Battle Shonen
4:22 Exploring Power Systems and Transformations
7:38 Fearing Villains and Antagonistic Forces
9:04 Fearing Villains and Antagonistic Forces (Demon Slayer Spoilers)
10:14 Fearing Villains and Antagonistic Forces (Chainsaw Man Spoilers)
11:47 What Drives a Character
14:11 Fitting the Framework
16:35 Appreciating Both Sides
○ Sources:
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#manga #demonslayer #chainsawman - Розваги
![Power's Realization of Love - A Chainsaw Man Retrospective Analysis [2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Nv82GaDBDcE/mqdefault.jpg)
Something else about Makima is how... present she is. Big shounen villains will generally stay in the background, rarely interacting with the protagonists until the final arc. Highly present villains will either be comedic or secret traitors, the latter of which isn't very common and is extremely rare to end up being the main antagonist rather than a lackey who is dealt with not too long after they're revealed. Makima is there from the start and is a major character the entire time. To the point where despite how obviously suspicious she is, it's hard to believe during a first readthrough that she really is *the* main antagonist because that's just not how they behave in shounen stories. It makes you keep thinking maybe she'll have a face-turn later on where she reveals all the suspicious and apparently villainous acts were for something resembling a good reason because that happens often enough and if she really were the big bad she wouldn't just be... there. The whole time. Giving such constant bad vibes. It's the kind of no-twist twist that really lands on people with a lot of genre familiarity. It also means her villainy is a kind of abuse and emotional manipulation that's truly, viscerally deplorable and is rare enough to see anywhere, much less in a shounen battle manga.
That was such a perfect interpretation of why Makima makes such a compelling villain. Thank you !!
Makima has to be related to aizen she really planned denjis whole life basically
Yeah reading through Chainsaw man again I realised Makima had been in control the entire time. Her every word represented control in some way.
@@vegetacultkokushibo4392 Makima actually has to make plans on the fly, and alters them based on new circumstances.
Aizen after the first arc is pretty lazily written as just *"I predicted evetything perfectly, for no good reason, because the author needed me to."*
Basically the author just TELLS us he's a smart manipulator, while with Makima you can reread the manga and see how her methods evolved and adapted to fit the circumstances.
Really? I thought it was pretty obvious she was the main villain. Like, for what other reason would she be so weird and suspicious? More than being surprised by the "twist" i was surprised by how easy it was for me to hate her.
Even CSM follows the typical shonen formula of "Main character with a demon inside of him joins and organization to fight the bad guys with his trio" but got creative with the motivation of its characters which ended up making the author change magazines in the end.
Yup. It's a generic overlay and category. But the way the manga implements it is unique and phenomenal. Like both Naruto has demon born within and is in fantasy world and Itadori gets it by will and gets involved in a different world. But in csm it is developed in a different way. (A bit of mix of JJK and hs dxd). It's characters belong to a typical character-type. But the use of them and the plot is just interesting. +the MC's development is kinda bold and different and also his appearance is a bit villianous(!!??) And unique(kinda makes me remeber Zoro in the worst possible way lol)
That's not why it changed magazines. Shihei Lin, his editor since Fire Punch, was moved to Shounen Jump and he followed him there. Now that Lin is back at Jump+, he went back. Same thing happened with Tatsuya Endo(SpyxFamily). The editor is just that good.
@@levesteM most mangaka are usually the best of friends with their editors. JJK, Claymore, MHA, and more all have mangaka that constantly gush about how good of friends they are.
@@bruh__9696 plis the way that csm changes how the story runs, in more of a melodramatic scenario (melodrama being where the story is more following the plot and how it affects the characters, not how the plot changes because of the characters) where the world is changed around denji and denjis reactions to it, masked by the blood and gore to make it essier to consume, also with the trope that denji follows through the manga of never making any descisions himself.
It’s just a lot more different in term of story, and it’s really amazing and I find it really cool
@@bluedrankredpillremoved5716 disagree with MHA a little bit there
It's crazy how big chainsaw man has gotten even without an anime and only part 1 of the manga. It also has the most dedicated and talented fans I've seen. Chainsaw man will definitely surpass most series once the anime comes out.
Great video btw.
That's actually pretty true. It's easy to look at Demon Slayers numbers and think of Chainsaw Man as being smaller but that undersells what CSM did in half the time and with no anime adaption. I don't know that it'll ever totally rival Demon Slayer's numbers but I'm sure it'll explode in popularity come part 2 and the anime's release.
And thank you!
... Is that punpun...
@@Russian_engineer_bmstu Good Vibrations!!
Nice pfp, hope there isn't something horribly traumatizing about it
@@nitinpriyadarshi269 There are no Good Vibrations with aiko.
CSM gets so wacky that I don't even really consider it a shonen anymore. The story is so mature and handles complex emotions and feelings that it reminds me a lot more of seinen mangas like Dorhedoro. That's probably why it's getting moved to Jump+ where Fujimoto can get as wacky as he wants without fear of being censored.
If you think about it, it’s basically a melodrama masked by the gore and fighting, which I find really amazing and beautifully written (melodrama being where the story focuses on the plot and how it effects the characters, not how the characters shape the plot, kinda like the titanic)
You do know that Dorohedoro was eventually changed to a Shonen right?
That's a little misleading. It was in a shonen magazine for less than a year out of its 18 years of publishing.
@@NINJAMUSHI Not misleading at all, I said it eventually changed and they change for a reason.
There’s no reason to compare CSM to a Seinen that changed to a Shonen. Plus there have been tons of interesting, complex, and or dark Shonen that have publication in Shonen Jump or other magazines.
No I agree with you on all of that, it's goofy to consider CSM anything but a shonen. I just think you have to kinda throw up an asterisk if you mention Dorohedoro becoming a shonen because, while it did, it was during during it's least "dark" stretch of chapters and for a very brief time.
Otherwise I'm on board with what you're saying
I think a flaw with the "What Drives a Character" portion of this video is how you portray Denji in the first chapter and how you undervalue Pochita. Yes, Denji has practically nothing and lives a terrible life, but he has a saving grace in Pochita, his best friend. Pochita is the one good thing Denji has in his life, his companion in fighting devils. While the two or horrible misfortunate, they are also happy. They have each other, yes Denji craves more but at the end of the day, it could be argued that Denji is better off before the events of CSM when it was just him and Pochita. Before merging with Pochita Denji said that if Denji died Pochita should take over his body and live a happy life, but in the fateful moment Pochita sacrifices himself so that Denji could finally have what he never could. Denji's desires ARE Pochita's desires and I think that is deeply important to what drives Denji, and I would have liked if this was touched on in the video.
It's even more simple, his entire character is just about being happy, but he gets so beaten down, that he even relinquishes his freedom for that goal.
@@MaxIronsThird The creator said that he watched a documentary about abusive relationship (romantic or familial) and drawn inspiration from that. Denji's journey is indeed about finding himself and breaking free from control.
Show me your dreams
That was a great comparison of both series' intentions and styles. Reminds me of how we used to talk about Bleach and Naruto, fittingly enough.
Thank you, means a lot! Yeah, those two did have a similar rivalry back in the day.
Which ones bleach and which ones naruto
@@SooperHam. I would associate CSM with Bleach because it's the urbanistic one. Just for that.
@@AntediluvianRomance That's a really dumb reason tbh
@@Crinjal_2611 i honestly think jjk is an adapter not an innovator still love it though🥴
I don't think I would ever imagine Demon Slayer & Chainsaw Man being two sides of a coin, but I enjoyed both of the stories so much despite their huge differences from each other. I hope that Chainsaw Man pops off like Demon Slayer did with its season 1, and ends up becoming hyper popular in the entire world. I know that probably isn't going to happen due to its adult nature, but it wouldn't be surprising if it did.
They publish Chainsaw Man manga in my country. It's one of the chosen. It will definitely succeed.
@@AntediluvianRomance what country do you live in?
@@totallynotshirouemiya6957 Mother Russia. Manga publishing is not that large here, so the publishers are choosy. If they got Chainsaw, they see some great potential.
@@AntediluvianRomance and I'm very grateful to them for that. It was the end of my trip on new year holidays to family in Saint Petersburg. My mom and I went to the bookstore for souvenirs. And while she was choosing which calendar would be better, I was discovering the huge compare to my hometown's bookstores assortment, because tomorrow there would be a two-hour flight to Moscow, then a three-hour transfer and another six hours to Yakutsk (it was much cheaper, than direct flight), so I needed a book.
And I chose the first and only released at that time volume of CSM, cuz I heard a lot about it and it had a beautiful cover. Damn that was amazing!
Rest of the manga I ended in three days on web with much worse translation and scans. And later on shared this volume with several friends and relatives (even with 8 years old cousin, she liked it and asked more)
@@xuibd I'm so glad the goodness found you! This baby is exceptional. Azbuka publishers really know what they are doing. (And soon it will be easy to buy all the rest as a bunch and fully support the official release. Which I am doing because I can.)
Another extremely unique aspect about Makima that Im surprised not many people have mentioned is the fact that she GROOMED Denji.
If you exclude all of the crazy devil stuff, Makima was an adult woman who used her feminine wiles to exploit a teenage boy who was still learning about sex and relationships for her own personal gain. Even how she stripped Denji of all his happiness and killed off his only friends just to treat him like a litteral lap dog sounds very similar to how a predatory abuser will isolate their victims from their loved ones only to be preyed upon.
Not many works of fiction (especially shonen manga) has had a villain take the role of the protagonists groomer.
And she's also possibly just as old as humanity, atleast her concept is.
So true. My heart broke when after everything, Denji still said "I still like her". Fujimoto portrayed this toxic, groomed relationship so well - and I wonder if he even knew he was!
She’s such a good villain she groomed the readers too
THANK YOU FOR SAYING IT
The reason I think Chainsaw Man is so well received and is such a good manga is because almost every chapter is written like a finale chapter
Plus we gotta realize, CSM is absurdly popular rn and the Anime hasn’t even started airing yet. Just look at how much sales jumped for Demon Slayer and JJK after their animes. CSM to the moon
yeah, I'm sure CSM will blow up with its anime
I mean, for Demon Slayer has ufotable. That's the series main strength.
@@BygoneT true. Demon slayer had a lot of lucky timing. Ufotable Anime, right after season 1 finished airing a Manga Box Set releases.
But even more so to the point. As far as I know, Demon Slayer wasn’t very popular (atleast compared to JJK and CSM) but then went to sell #1 for months after the anime released
@@Gwest0526 Yup, Mugen Train became the highest grossing anime movie thanks to COVID + Ufotable combo, which is kind of a shame imo.
The series is not bad though. I've yet to read chainsaw man though, I thought about reading it but I guess I'm gonna wait the anime.
@@BygoneT Demon Slayer isn’t horrible it’s just really basic until the last couple Arcs, but like right when the story gets good it ends, plus I’m not a fan of the manga art style. Chainsaw man on the other hand has single handedly made Tatsuki Fujimoto my favorite manga author, both story wise and art wise.
imo the single biggest thing CSM does differently from other shonens is visual storytelling. CSM doesn't have many speech bubbles or explanations for powers, instead it just SHOWS you what's going on and lets you figure it out. It's why reading CSM is much faster to read than other manga. That biggest complaint people have about shonen manga about inner monlogues is simply not as prevalent in CSM
Yes thank you for noticing
That's also why a lot of people who read it have no clue what happened in it
@@zorinus3340 better than having so much explanation and still doesn't make much sense (bnha manga be wildin right now)
@@zorinus3340 And I think that's perfectly fine. Chainsaw Man respects your intelligence as a reader more than the average shonen. If the author dumbed it down it might reach a wider audience but it would lose what makes it special.
@@nhlfan1001 no it doesnt. u want smart show? try to understand garden of sinners in first watch. show start as fairly simple then it gets weird (in a good way) starting from the movie 2. i watched it like 3 times to comprehend the lore.
Demon Slayer = The best of the Shonen condensed, a love letter to the genre.
Chainsaw man = A deconstruction of Shonen, a critique of the genre.
At least, that's the simplest way I like to describe these two.
How you feel about chainsaw man is how I feel about jjk I think of it as Anti-Shonen
What in the world is an anti-shonen and how in the world is JJK whatever that is? Lmao
@@NINJAMUSHI goes against tropes you see in most Shonen
@@CursedSabbath. uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
@@CursedSabbath. how, at all? Jujutsu kaisen is like, the quintessential Shonen. There's nothing wrong with being a generic Shonen either, because jjk does such a good job with its story. But it definitely has a lot of those Shonen tropes.
This gives me a lot more appreciation for Demon Slayer's simplicity, I think I've been sort of harsh towards it up to this point. It really is a nice comfort food series that doesn't try to be anything it's not. Great video!
Thank you! Demon Slayer isn't my favorite series either but I certainly think it has a place in this world
I hated on Demon slayer on for so long without watching it. But then when I watched it, I was dumbfounded on how fucking good it was. Sure, the story is mid as it gets but it's executed way too perfectly. Right now, it's the #2 shonen anime I have ever watched.
This also the reason it’s so damn popular cause the story can appeal to anyone, any age or any gender.
@@pebbleboyshorts765 you're just dumb if you hate on something without ever even trying it...
"Perhaps I've treated you too harshly"
07:10 Of course CSM has tournament arc, Denji competes with Aki on who makes Katana Man screams loudest when getting kicks to his balls
The unique twist never failed to make me amazed
"Make sure he never shoots anything else but blanks!"
"It's nuts or nothing!"
Honestly i think demon slayer does well with its generic plot it’s not meant to be a revolutionary story its just meant to be a generic shonen
And there is nothing wrong with that
Chainsaw man is just batshit insane and i fucking love it
Edit : wow my most liked comment is about anime
yeah, imo demon slayer is great (have only seen the anime so i am basing my opinion off that), while very basic it still has very funny, serious and also hype moments while still being "basic", it just is fun to watch so i think it has done it's job perfectly
Yea demon slayer manga nothing really special
@@source324 yeah but that doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy it
@@source324 no bitches?
both good
me content
I definitely felt like Chainsaw Man and Dorohedoro had a similar vibe when I was reading the manga. They both had this element of "oh these demons dont f around and pretty much anything could happen" that kept you glued to the page
Yep and both of them are bizarre, chaotic, weirdly wholesome and well written.
I love Dorohedoro but what I appreciated more in Chainsaw Man was that Fujimoto wasn't afraid to kill off 'main' characters. In Dorohedoro, no one important gets permanently injured or killed and I think the story suffered for it.
5:12 The bomb devil actually represents the fear of bombs in general. The concept of atomic bombs doesn't exist in the chainsaw man world, if i remember correctly.
Is that right? Shit, I may have just made a mistake then. The point still stands but that's a goof if you're right
@@NINJAMUSHI I actually just re-read chainsaw man today, and TreeAsh is right!
Your point still stands, and the concept of Reze is much better than some explosive sweat, but atomic bombs do not exist in chainsaw man.
Same goes for Nazis, World War 2 itself, SAO, Arnolone syndrome, aids, the mount hio eruption, sixth sense, the light of a particular star that would break children's minds and four possible conclusions other than death at the end of people's lifespans.
You can find it on chapter 84.
I needa fact check next time RIP. Thanks for informing me though
@@vibey8558 it was SOA rather than SAO but Sword Art Online not existing wouldn't be bad either way
@@vibey8558 "Four possible conclusions other than death" is a line that just breaks my brain and I love it a lot.
Chainsaw Man is a tempered and more focused Fujimoto. I am so glad a mangaka who is so experimental and eccentric is gaining so much traction..
exactly. but the eccentric ones wouldn't shine without many normal ones around them
I think he's much better when he's tampered, Fire Punch went off the rails 3 or 4 times before ending.
@@MaxIronsThird Yeah it was still a fucking wild ride though holy shit. I wished it was more tempered though
@@MaxIronsThird Fire punch tricks you so f****** hard. I can wonder percent tell that he just is a massive fan of Western cinema. Cause his movie influences are all over the place but he definitely loves point just wild things. I do love fire punch for holy s*** they ever make that into an anime.
I think you could have also compared the characters companions and how Demon slayer has a solid foundation of stock shonen allies but manages to flesh them out to be more likeable, and how Chainsaw man is unconventional in it's archetypes in that the "rival' character genuinely doesn't have a rivalry with the MC outside of their first couple of appearances, and how the "best friend"/has an unbreakable deep connection with the MC character is a female, when usually it'd be another male.
The male-female friendship you just mentioned is actually so good and you're absolutely right. Shonen lacks that to the point it's just sad, but a powerful bond between them makes CSM far deeper.
@@noambracha2495 Yeah it's one of the aspects I really enjoyed about it. I mean male shonen heroes have female friends but none of them are like, particularly explored. Usually if the MC is particularly close to a female character they're the "love interest". Even in Bleach, after a certain point, Ruiki and Ichigo barely talk or hang out (Granted in bleach ichigo doesn't really bond with his friends after a certain point).
In CSM Denji and Power's relationship is like, the kind of relationship you'd see between two super close male characters, If Aki is the Hiei then Power would be the Kuwabara. Yes Denji and power are seen being physically intimate, as in you see them cuddle a lot, but that's just the difference between male and female friendships and Male and male friendships. The manga goes out of it's way to explain how platonic it is, and it's appreciated.
Powers character as well, while still keeping her femininity in mind, still has traits most shonen writers would stray away from. As in how she's structured like the MC's best friend (Going through a training arc with him, joining him in battles as an equal destructive force). It's unorthodox and it helps me enjoy power as a character.
Not to diminish the bond between Denji and Aki either. Again usually the "cool edgy character" would be defined by his competition with the MC. Naruto and sasuke's rivalry is a big part of the manga, however it doesn't show them being friends enough (it only really does this in a few scenes in the zabuza arc) before sasuke's turn to warrant the emotional devastation of his betrayal. Most of their friendship building, as in their real friendship building, is done post sasuke betrayal. Vegta and Goku are better but they're rivals through and through. Denji and Aki are hardly rivals outside of their opening chapters and they form a vey good, deep friendship.
They're like two good friends that enjoy talking to each other, and don't really bicker at all after the initial chapters. Aki also has his own compelling arc that doesn't have anything to do with overcoming Denji. While Denji and Power are both a part of it, it's more about Aki gaining an actual survival instinct since he has something to live for.
This is rather confusing considering most characters in DS were barely fleshed out. It's a great manga, yes. But the author clearly did not give 2 shits. Especially considering how rushed it is.
@@Chironexe I do believe they were given good stories and all, but I agree it is kinda rushed
@@Chironexe Full cards on the table I mostly said that as a point to be fair to DS. What i should have said is that the main cast is made likeable enough. Specifically the main Trio. Where they're fleshed out ENOUGH to be made somewhat memorable and stand amongst the crowd.
I say that yet the only one OF the main trio whose name I remember off the top of my head is tanjiro. Nezuko too I guess. I remember personality traits of the others but that's it.
I guess even when I actively wasn't trying to I made this another point of "how chainsaw man is better than DS" because in Chainsaw man, despite saying he doesn't care much about characters- Fujimoto makes even his minor characters memorable.
I remember a lot of tertiary character's names and personalities even if they weren't given lengthy backstories. Mainly because Chainsaw man does an fantastic job of fleshing out it's characters through small scenes, facial expressions, and dialog that imply those backstories. It's weird I remember those characters, who objectively have less screen time, than a lot of the minor villains in Demon slayer.
LOVE the video, but I think there's some diluting of Denji's motivation. One of the first things we learn about him is that he doesn't really know what he wants and the point of the series is him learning to work for himself, and for things more substantial than "touching a girl". I don't wanna be "that guy" but I feel like you really appreciate CSM and thought it'd be nice to give my two cents on what you said about the character driven writing of both series.
During that section I intentionly limited myself to discussing Denji's founding motivations and what drives him fundamentally, not the specific. That's why I kinda say "he wants to eat food, wants to touch a girl, wants to experience life for real." His selfish desires still largely drive him throughout the story, but the specific evolves (partly because he doesn't know exactly what he wants and he is beyond erratic). Maybe I could've clarified that better or painted a slightly different picture, but you're absolutely correct otherwise. The one thing I wish I made a push on was how Denji does his devil hunting job for reasons external to the devils; he rarely fights for the virtue of killing a devil and always has an external motive. That's something that really sets him apart from most shonen characters and Tanjiro.
Thanks for the feedback! Glad you liked the video!
@@NINJAMUSHI Yeah, you have to realize on the pyramid of needs, getting your own needs met comes first. Denji has never had the opportunity to look out for other people like Tanjiro, since he never go the opportunity to look after himself. I'm looking forward to seeing his character growth with Nayuta in the second arc.
The story follows a lot of denji and how he is affected by the plot, and not how denji affects the plot, masked by the fighting and gore, which is different to a lot of other manga and I find it really awesome
@@kiravati I think that's one of my most favourite ways of storytelling. Characters that are not in control, all-powerful beings that can change the course of the story directly but follow through with what is happening around them and make their part interesting enough for us to love. Berserk does that too if I'm not wrong and it does it beautifully.
I thought that, by the end of part 1, Denji's motivations had changed significantly. He'd gone from wanting the simple joys of life he was denied to just enjoying his life with his new family, killing demons. Until of course Makima finally thought he'd experienced enough of life to tear it away, leading him back to his old hedonistic ways with abit of heroism on the side.
In thought of part 2 Denji's goals are still the same, he's just thinking harder to get to his goal
@Lavender part two got pretty interesting now, it's not clear what's going on in Denji's mind but it sure is interesting
@@somacruzin4474 Too bad the control devil is back at it again with cucking denji,💀
I wanted to mention another shonen manga that is a diametral opposite of Kimetsu, this time in terms of the values it portrays: Jujutsu Kaisen.
Kimetsu mostly echoes Collectivist values, maybe one of the reasons for its overwhelming popularity in Japan.
Demons are few in number, and individually more powerful and unique when compared to humans, however their hierarchy is based on pure meritocracy instead of concensus or seniority. They aren't bound by rules and cant mesh with society due to sunlight and due to being maneaters.
The contrast to this is the Demon Slayer Corps , an overaching theme of the story is how it doesn't matter that individual swordsmen die because their will is inherited by the collective and will eventually catch up to the naturally stronger demons. Basically immortality in the collective, a theme embodied in the Ubuyashiki clan passing the baton due to their hereditary illness. Also represented in memories carried in blood and the contagious birthmark.
On the other hand, in Jujutsu Kaisen most characters are individualists who fight for almost purely personal reasons, with many of the "good guys" being morally gray at best. Motivations such and moneymaking and thrill are not looked down upon. This manga is the anti-aesop if there ever was one and i absolutley love it. The most egoistical and unfettered characters are the ones who drive the plot. The coolest and strongest guys basically sh*t on their superiors.
Kugisaki is on her self-actualization journey pursuits beauty and strength and rejects the shame culture of her village and mocks the value systems of Mai and the Witch Girl.
The Sorcery Society is portrayed in a worse light than the actual antagonists. Being ruled by traditions and seniority, they judge the value of individuals by metrics that apply to the majority, namely cursed energy and cused techiques, and their cryptonite end up being Toji and Maki who have neither of those things.
And i could keep up, but this comment is too long already.
Id like to hear your thoughts, is this
indicative of opposing trends? I remember Hunter x Hunter had a lot of morally gray characters too.
I currently don't have the most to say on JJK. From the comments left on this video, it's clear that my opinion based on the first 7-8 volumes (and 0) isn't enough to partake in the conversion. Clearly people see something in it that I don't, so I would like to try to at least understand what that is. Because you put in the effort to write so much, I'll give it a heart and hopefully others can see it and give you some good discussion!
pretty good analysis! I think another example that supports your idea is the whole sorcerers vs mahito's group of curses juxtaposition.
sorcerers are a pretty eclectic group consisting of different clans who only appear united but at the end of the day each strive for domination, this is why gojo isn't liked in the community - he is the reason no other clan besides his can top the jujutsu hierarchy (among other things). meanwhile the curses' goals are just about bringing the world where they would thrive as curses.
while being obviously villainous, this motivation can be seen as something for the collective good of the curses themselves. if I remember correctly, jogo even shows some semblance of deep connection with their goal, saying it's okay if he dies if that means sukuna can create the world they wish for. same with hanami, the curse representing the nature, its motivation is pretty clear and not at all egotistical if you really think about it. the main outlier here is mahito but it's understandable, since he is the representative of the fear of humans, so him being the most human-like means he's the most selfish.
with the main villain title shifting to kenjaku this obviously no longer applies because their goals are completely different, but I think it's pretty funny how the main conflict of the manga for a while was between "barely held together group of individuals with their own agendas and hidden goals" vs "a collective of curses wishing for a better world for themselves"
Thank you for this entire thread, my 1 2 punch of juicy JJK analysis was as sublime as it was unexpected.
@@NINJAMUSHI man, if it was 7 volumes you stopped right before it hits it's stride lol
I'm now caught up and enjoy jjk significantly more
I feel like both are good in their own ways but but technically CSM has more interesting story while DS was going for a simple one
That's pretty fair
DS is carried by animation alone, let's be real. If it was adapted by some 3rd grade studio, no one would give a shit about it. CSM on other hand despite having no adaptation and above average artstyle (excluding the fights they're fucking amazing) is a lot better.
@@pranitp.29 that would be true if it wasn't for the fact that the manga was already popular before the anime. Though the anime boosted it to insane popularity. But crediting that to just animation is smooth brain, some generic shounen like a ass tier isekai wouldn't reach that level of popularity even if it had better animation than demon slayer.
People just love down playing the fact that the character writing and emotional core of the story are big reasons why Demon Slayer is popular. Btw I would say demon slayer has cast as a whole has more depth than the CSM cast. As in the cast of characters who are actually relevant to the story and are developed characters are few in CSM compared to demon slayer. Though CSM is definitely the more entertaining story.
@@pranitp.29 The manga is already popular even before the anime.lol
@@pranitp.29 eh, it’s character design and art style are also noteworthy, but I think CSM wins in both those departments too. I don’t know how you have such iconic character design when everyone is in the sam ducking suits
My simple take on why CSM is so fresh- the characters' lives are treated realistically given the world they're in; there is no evil, there is no good, there is only humanity which dances along the imaginary dividing line it created.
A story like Chainsaw Man could only be made by Fujimoto. It's clear from reading it and his other work like Fire Punch and Goodbye Eri that the way he makes is manga is different from everyone else.
the amount of love i have for both series is indescribable
I'm glad to hear that. Loving things is nice :)
As someone who loves Demon Slayer, it's not original nor does it has the best storytelling in the world. And that's alright. What pulled me to it is how genuine the writing is, how it portrays familial relationships and how that drives most of the characters, heroes and villains alike. Also I'm a sucker for stories where family is the motivation and the angst around it. Just punch me in the fucking heart.
Chainsaw man was the first Manga that made me go, Ok I NEED to purchase merch/books to support the author in anyway I can. I've been telling my friends to read it for a while and finally FINALLY with the anime coming out in October many are starting to take actual notice of this master piece.
I was very surprised that it became popular and super extremly happy for that fact and for the author, cause this is clever, outstanding, pretty postmodernistic and this is not what lots of people usually like, cause it's more experimenting and unique
It's kind of funny how, even though they interpret them radically differently, both Chainsaw Man and Demon Slayer draw some similar conclusions on a few themes common to lots of Shonen battle manga. The idea of strength or completion attained by overcoming adversity is present in both, though in radically different ways. Rengoku and others reject attempts to tempt them into becoming demons because they'd rather accept the nobility and fragility of a finite human life than an immortality that's fed by the suffering of others. Chainsaw Man intensely examines similar ideas, too, with how it repeats the fable of the town mouse and the country mouse: asking the question, "Would you rather live in safety and have to make do with less, or would you risk it all and make some sacrifices in your comfort and security for a chance to get something more?" It's more open ended than Demon Slayer's affirmation of choosing adversity over the easy way out demonism offers, but it's interesting to see two such radically different series interrogate such a similar idea. Plus, they both kind of arrive at a similar conclusion in regards to kindness: that we live in a fucked-up, scary world, and that sometimes the only way we can survive is by the kindness of others. That if we don't turn to each other, cry for and lean on each other, and show each other compassion, we'll soon have nothing left. Tanjiro and his allies slay demons so that they can protect others from the pain they themselves have gone through, while Denji finds a more lasting satisfaction in caring for others and discovers he has more to live for than satisfying his desires alone. I think there's something beautiful about that.
very insightful and thoughtful comment!
100%
This is one of my favorite comments in all of youtube. Its so thoughtful and I agree with you 100%.
I dont know what to say but ill leave this reply here so i can get notified of this comment's activity.
Ironically DS and CSM are the first two mangas I ever read
When I started reading manga, neither one even existed yet, haha. That's cool to know these two got you into manga, though!
same here!
Wow you have such a great start!
Your comment is actually making me feel old bruh
@@tahmkench118 I get you, haha. I got into anime/manga a bit over a decade ago and, yeah, sometimes I have to remember that I'm no longer the current generation of anime/manga fans lol
Timestamps!
0:00 Introduction
1:33 The Framework of Battle Shonen
4:23 Exploring Power Systems and Transformations
7:39 Fearing Villains and Antagonistic Forces
9:04 Fearing Villains and Antagonistic Forces (Demon Slayer Spoilers)
10:14 Fearing Villains and Antagonistic Forces (Chainsaw Man Spoilers)
11:47 What Drives a Character
14:11 Fitting the Framework
16:36 Appreciating Both Sides
Why do you hate Goten so much I’m just wondering I made me laugh when I saw it throughout the video
Demon slayer was fun to watch and learn how things were in different countries and times zones it was great, chainsaw man had me going wtf what's going on, yo enemies are based off fears, damn, gosh I love this, all in all, I love both
Relatable. With extra sadness in both manga.
OMG I LOVEEEE YOUR PFP PICTURE, Al is sooo precious
OMG I LOVEEEE YOUR PFP PICTURE, Al is sooo precious
I think it's interesting to call Chainsaw man an innovator, because I view Chainsaw man as a satire or parody of a lot shonen, while still being an incredible story and being very dark.
I feel like Chainsaw man takes every expectation you have about shonen and flips it on its head. Our main character isn't some polite well mannered goody two shoes, or an eccentric and incredibly passionate fighter who fights for some grand goal. Naruto wants to be hokage, Luffy wants the one piece... Denji wants to feel some tits... It's even brought up in the story, Aki shames Denji for his dumb ambitions.
There are many other parts I feel take the basic idea in most shonen and just makes fun of it in a sense. Like the eternity devil arc. They don't use some strange strategy using one of the new characters' abilities, Denji literally just tortures it for days until it wants to die, like it's saying to other shonen, "why're you making this so damn complicated, just brute force it". Or the training arc. They literally just get killed by their trainer over and over until they can kinda survive. Or when they fight Reize and Typhoon and everyone is like "Denji, you gotta start thinking more about how you use your abilities, you can't just jump in to a fight" and you expect him to invent some new skill. Beam even tells him what to do... and Denji is just like "alright man, Beam transform, time to ride a shark". Denji is just out of control. He doesn't use any strategy when fighting devils way stronger than him and that's his greatest strength. I know there are more examples that I can't think of right now.
In another sense though, Chainsaw man is way more real and brutal. Characters that seem like they'll stick around for very long just die a sudden and merciless deaths, just the way you'd expect someone fighting devils would die. The villains are incredibly powerful most of the time. The Katana man arc and the villains there literally kills most of the public safety bureau and pretty much every character you just met in the bar one chapter ago, and also Hisako. The power system is also way crueler and more brutal than other manga. You have to sacrifice your own body parts to gain power from demons, and you can even sacrifice lives to get very good contracts. Each battle has consequences, unlike most shonen where the charaters get battered and we spend some happy times recovering (see demon slayer), people lose limbs, people die, Aki loses his life span, Aki literally loses his power and needs to get a new one, entire teams get wiped out, people quit or move to other departments. This job isn't easy, it's not fun, it's not exciting, it's not epic and enjoyable and cool... it's horrifying. Only someone with a screw lose could enjoy that kind of job, which is why Denji is the most suited for the job.
Wait, that first Devil was Eternity, i don't think so.
@@MaxIronsThird the devil that trapped Denji and gang in the hotel was the eternity devil.
@@seven_8434 Found it kind of weak to be Eternity.
The point of the Eternity Devil is that Denji is willing to persist longer than Eternity itself. Ironically, the Eternity Devil let's itself be killed because it doesn't want to indefinitely suffer. It's a super cool conclusion that doesn't exactly hinge on "who is stronger than who."
@@NINJAMUSHI yeah, it also shows exactly what Kishibe meant when he said you need to have a screw loose to be a good devil hunter. Only someone insane would think to do what Denji did, which makes sense since Denji is completely crazy.
I liked how this video compared the strengths and positions of DS and CSM relative to each other and shounen in general without having an obvious bias. Even though you clearly believe one to be better it doesn't come across as this is objectively better than that, I don't feel like it was mental gymnastics meant to prop one series over the other and instead a concise way to speak for the fondness you have for both series, it's so refreshing.
Excellent video btw, I think I'll sub
Thank you so much for that. After seeing endless comments use the video to prop up one series and tear down the other, it's really nice to see that someone understood what I was going for. I think I needed that, so thanks haha.
Awesome, glad to have you aboard!
Unironically, they are most favorite mangas i readed of all time. I read them non-stop, they were so exciting and interesting. I read MHA too but it became so looong that i just don't if autor just wants it to live or doesn't know how to end his work...
MHA should have ended after "United States of Smash", All Might was the real MC to me. Everything after has been diminishing quality (1 million percent power punch from a guy who can barely withstand 100 percent.... made me want to vomit)
This video was great! From the editiing to the script itself, simply wonderful! As someone who isn't too well versed in battle shounen, you managed to make the video very comprehensible and easy to follow along, especially with the framework that was given and how you compared and contrasted the two by using the framework your provided, showing how each of them either follow, improve upon, or divert from what's considered the norm. Anyways, awesome job!
Let's gooo! Thank you! That means a lot, actually. I'm glad that someone that isn't super duper into shonen can still understand and appreciate what I was saying.
The thing about Denji is that he's relatable. Not that I don't like Demon Slayer tho, but Tanjiro with his motivation to protect his family and save people seems a bit incomprehensible to me. Don't get me wrong, I still love my family a lot, maybe it's just that I've never been put in a dangerous situation where I have to protect my family with my life. What I love about Denji is that he's selfish. Even when we read stories about heroes with great compassion, we as humans are selfish by nature. We want to have a better life, we want to achieve something and chase our own happiness. Imagine seeing a stranger on the verge of death and in order to help them, you have to put your life in danger, and let's be honest, not many people can do that (which is understandable, we all have fears and don't want to give up on our life. There are even people who harm others just to get what they want). I'm not saying that having compassion and empathy is a bad thing, quite the contrary, but Denji only thinks for himself is what makes him more 'human' and not some forgiving, generous gods and goddesses.
I strongly agree, protagonists tend to have some natural sense for heroism that just isn't relatable nor realistic (especially for their age). I like to think that if your main character's greatest flaw is being too friendly or too heroic then they don't have any flaws and you're just desperately trying to make people like them. Denji makes being lovable effortless because we like him for being his own, imperfect, selfish and crazy self
I'd really like to see your take on JJK, since it's the "adaptor" you mentioned. It fixes EVERY battle shonen problem. Powercreep, plot armor, and boring characters(for the most part lol) are all completely done away with, while still keeping some of the tropes that make shonen good.
Yeah maybe at some point
Honestly we already had all of that with HunterxHunter, but the difference is JJK took that and put it to use in a faster paced setting, thats whats actually good about it
@@NINJAMUSHI i also want to see your take on jujutsu's fight choerography
@@xaviorprime9203 fam the main difference is that JJK isn't on a long-ass hiatus lmao
@@MisterDillPickle sheesh that hurts haha
This is definitely my favourite anime essay type video I've seen in a while, You deserve way more subs.
Thanks, that means a lot!!
I remember giving a synopsis of chainsaw man to a friend that was interested and she said "That sounds a lot like Jujutsu Kaisen". I was like it totally does huh. But the way the story is served is so much more different.
NEW ANALYSIS ABOUT ASA MITAKA / PART 2 OF CHAINSAW MAN OUT NOW. GO WATCH THAT
FOR CLARITY'S SAKE:
This video is not about which one is better-regardless of my own preference for Chainsaw Man. If you are looking to use this video for confirmation bias that Chainsaw Man is better than Demon Slayer (or vice versa), you're looking in the wrong place. This video is about how each series got popular with different methods, not which one is better. Feel free to continue fighting in the comments, but just know that it makes your fanbase look worse (and a wee bit dumber
Dont care, demon slayer is the greatest anime of all time and chainsaw man will never surpass it
@@thunderscythe6423 perhaps ya should change your profile mr demon slayer fan luffy does not fit someone with such great taste or perhaps ya may be just sarcastic and fishing for replies, demon slayer did what shonen does it just was a good story with nothing to make it stand out except the art style and the adaptation it got made for the normal dude while chainsaw man was made to be different build different the sigma vs the beta i would say one piece one of my favourite manga of all time is somewhere inbetween it does do what the others do but it's really different in other aspects
@@thunderscythe6423 thanks for making the Demon Slayer fanbase look bad. I knew you had it in you
@@NINJAMUSHI some people man🤣
@horignon ??? I haven't been deleting any comments. If I deleted comments I didn't like, half of these comments would be gone lol. It might be getting filtered out by UA-cam
edit: I don't see any comments in the held for review section. Dunno what's happening to your comments. sorry, chief
Great analysis dude! You really captured the draw of both series and how cool this is for Shonen!
I always hope that what I'm trying to communicate-whatever it maybe be-is understood and appreciated, so I'm super glad to hear this!
Great video! I always see people get hung up on what series is "better" and all that but explaining why successful series are successful and how multiple methods can get success is really interesting! Definitely subscribed and can't wait to see more content!
Thank you! I'm glad that you were able to get something out of that message! Welcome aboard!!
Ironically these are my two favorite manga, love them both. It pleases me to know they're both getting excellent anime adaptations.
awesome! glad you love them so much! and yeah, it's super cool to see them getting good adaptation (though I do worry a little for CSM's anime)
@@NINJAMUSHI Oh yeah, I'm a little worried about CSM due to MAPPA's crunch issues and tendency to take on too many projects. But what we've seen so far looks amazing so I'm hopeful.
@@NINJAMUSHI I wouldn’t be too worried about chainsaw man. It has a great staff and they’ve had plenty of pre production work. It’s likely going to look even better than jujustu kaisen.
Really good dissertation. Nice thesis, good argumentation and exposition of arguments followed by sweet conclusion.
you perfectly articulated similar thoughts I’ve had concerning shonen, seriously great video and underrated asf
Thank you for the kind words! Appreciate it!
17:00 I like how other characters just smiling and Denji just like "wtf is this thing"
Chainsaw Man stood out not only because it challenges the norm, but it does so while diving into subject matter that is actually rooted in culture and society, making the decisions and actions of our characters have weight and impact.
Take Himeno for example.
Himeno's actions were driven by her perspective in the meaning of life. After seeing countless deaths of her colleagues, her experience with some very upset family member of her perished comrade informed her that one way to bring meaning to her existence is to have someone morn for you after your death. It didn't came in a vacuum of course, many religions and many of our holidays encapsulate this concept as value. Himeno's actions were driven by such aspect and it works very well because this motivation is so familiar to the whole world and practiced by many. We don't really need to question her motives, it's simply something we can accept and understand. Her character arc didn't exist only to serve the development of our main characters, but it echos a message that impact us all - the fear of death and becoming nothing. She is the only character who disappeared into nothing, and it is completely by design.
Not a lot of shonen series dives into this type of core ideas, and it's what made CSM characters stood out.
Really informative video which kindly explains the direction shonen manga are going in even aside from Demon Slayer and Chainsaw Man. Also just watching this made me remember how badass some of the panels are in CSM, definitely need to read it again. Would love to see more videos like this for other genres. Keep up the good work!
ah, man there's so many good panels for sure. Admittedly, it was a little harder picking out good panels for Demon Slayer that I thought represented it well. Thank you! I shall!
-Unique world build
-unique power scaling
-unique shonen mc
-unique waifus (literally just one of the top waifus in the series already rivals 02 who stood in the waifu ranking for a lot of time)
-unique plot
-unique art style
Yeah...
Just found this video in recommended instantly subscribed the second you showed ur knowledge on the history of shonen
And analysing videos that go way beyond "which is better" seeing that you can have different "types" of shonen
Goated channel and I'll watch the rest of ur other videos later
(Cough chainsawman is better cough)
Awesome, I'm glad you found it just by chance. My knowledge is still lacking in a few areas but I really want to learn even more about shonen (and manga in general). Super glad to hear that you liked the video and I hope you enjoy the others when you get to 'em!
I also hope off the inevitable success of CSM's anime that Fujimoto's two one shots he's made in the break between part 1 and now get ova's or short films, because holy shit they are powerful human stories that deeply cut into me and I think play into his greatest strength as a writer, which despite all his zany antics and characters, is his ability to write grounded and real dialogue, it feels like I'm looking in on a real life conversations and inner monologues and I adore it.
A Fire Punch adaptation would also be nice.
Dude Goodbye Eri is legit an oscar just sitting there ready for the taking. They don't even have to change much, the blueprint and script is already finished.
This was a really well thought out video.
One thing I think a lot of people overlook is denjis character. Like yes he does want to do these things with these girls but it’s not exactly true
He is lonely and wants love
He wants to be wanted and he wants to care for someone
He puts this act up that is an extended version of his wants
Denji is smart
And he does eventually build up to that point
He wants to live for not just himself but for pochita. He does care for power and Aki
He understands this and even if he acts one sided he really isn’t
He's been living isolated and mistreated for most of his life, suddenly he gets thrown into the society he Always thought he wanted to be part of, because he craves intimacy and love, but gets equally taken advantage of and manipulated.
The fact that Denji was resilient enough to develop empathy, kindness and a sense of responsibility after all that happened is amazing and shows how emotionally intelligent denji is even though he's portrayed as selfish
Also, after feeling Power’s boobs, he actually does come around to the realization he wants company and two-way emotional relationships. He does not stay seemingly one-dimensional for long
@@iantaakalla8180 exactly, makima just chooses to abuse this feeling and substitute his desire for love and two way relationships with an obsession with her so she can easily manipulate him
Holy shit, someone actually painting demon slayer in a positive light, kudos to you dude
I'm actually pretty tired of seeing people in the comments constantly ragging on it, and it isn't even one of my favorites. Gets a little old, honestly
@@NINJAMUSHI oh I agree for sure. It seems like on Twitter and Reddit all I see are people bashing it. It’s not one of my favorites either but it definitely isn’t bad. The animation of the show is obviously top tier but I liked reading the manga as well. A good story
Very good animation, great voice and just generally a great video! You deserve a lot more views, great job!
Thank you, especially for the comment on my voice over because that's not something many people note!
Excellent video, I really liked how you wrapped it up. Both sides keep shonen fun and exciting
Thank you!
Great analysis. I loved it, earned a new sub!
To add to this, I think the great success that Demon Slayer had has to do with the message. Same goes for chainsaw man. In the end, they touch on very important themes in today’s society: compassion and apathy. They take opposite approaches to showing the same thing: meaning, in life, success, subjectively, is given by the focus of our attentions and efforts. What we value as people shapes our lives and our surroundings. I feel demon slayer is much more suited for young people developing their sense of morality, and chainsaw man is instead better with jaded adults who can rediscover the meaning of caring through its pages. At the end of the day, Denji is not motivated solely by his sexuality. This gets replaced by his search for meaningful emotion in his life, and is what in the end allows him to defamation Makima: a new and restored compassion. Beautiful stories.
Great video mate👍
Great video
i am hyped about chainsaw man but demon slayer is still my favorite,i only read chainsaw man only once and i read demon slayer 6 times now and had the same hype
Dang, you've read it a bunch haha. I'm really happy to hear you enjoyed it so much! It's really good to find something that resonates with you like that!
Same, probably gonna reread chainsaw man soon since I don’t think I understood all the important voids
I'm gonna rad chainsaw man a second time
u a real tweaker bro ngl
@@clickboat4790 me too,i think i might re read chainsaw man when the anime comes out
I just can’t believe the Goat Fujimoto somehow convinced Jump to add Quanxi lesb**n scenes in the manga
why did you censor lesbian?
why did you censor lesbian?
I'm a lesbian and this is offensive
why did you censor lesbian?
@@nothugo9207 The comment got removed when I wrote it somewhere else so I played it safe
Good video bro well put together
I thought of Chainsawman as "what if mid-70s punk music was a manga" and you calling it "a break from traditional shonen" seems to hit that nail on the head. (though the obvious, and stated, grindhouse inspiration is also part of it.)
I don't have a lot to add onto that thought, but it's a neat perspective nonetheless!
that’s a genius explanation
A CSM fan that doesnt think Demon Slayer(or most other shounen) is doghsit? SUBSCRIBE. But in all seriousness, great video, it's so nice to see someone who knows what they're talking about when it comes to breaking down two series. Especially with mainstream shounen, which I feel people love to water down alot simply cause they may not be a Berserk or Vagabond(which frankly, alot of series arent anyway).
Really enjoyed the segment where you broke down antagonists in both stories, trust me as a big DS fan you are preaching to the choir about Muzan not being as interesting as other forces, Im surprised you didnt mention Douma(who is imo the best written character in the series alongside Yoriichi). I think the only thing I'd like to critique is I while Makima is a much better villain than Muzan, where I will give Demon Slayer a slight edge is the story never gave Muzan an out to be sympathized with. Maybe Im misinterpreting that chapter, but I hated how it seemed like Pochita tried to make Makima seem a bit tragic when he mentions "All she wanted was to form relationships with others, she just went about it wrong." Of course Makima was dead at this point so it doesnt really matter, but it kinda ruined my view of Makima a bit. Other than that I really enjoyed CSM and await the anime!
Again, great video, would love to see more like these for other battle shounen, maybe even certain seinen
Thank you! There's still a lot more I could've said but, with these recent videos, I've been trying to keep the run time down. I used to make 40 minute analysis and that's just a tad too much for me right now. Even this video was supposed to be under 15 and it turned out to be 18, haha. Again, thank you!!
@@NINJAMUSHI That's perfectly fine, you still managed to get your points across clear and concise
Absolutely sucks half the comment section is missing your entire point, I don't even think half of them actually watched nor listened tbh. The shounen community in a nutshell...
Somehow missed your reply (edit: wait no I didn't lol), but thank you for understanding. It is admittedly frustrating to have so many people twist this into something it isn't supposed to be. I know it's hopeful thinking but I'd love to see others try to have more understanding, rather than tearing down each other just because they like different manga.
great video mayne.
It's kind of refreshing to see a character like Denji in a shonen. He's flawed, selfish, and frankly not even that great of a hero (see chapter 102). He's basically the antithesis of a mary sue character, he's almost nothing BUT flaws. It makes every chapter super interesting cause it's always hard to tell how things will play out.
I fell in love with CSM for almost the same reasons I still call myself a GS fan, because of the exploration of humanity and the pursuit of self. The pity you feel for the MC's makes moments that make you chuckle or smile even more memorable since you know 99% of the time is because they said something that might seem outlandishly simple to us, but to them it means a great deal. Seeing both these characters "become human" or at least what we deem to be human, learning to "be" even if they don't even know its happening. You can argue that GS doesn't even care about being someone, but you can tell he is growing as a person and the simple fact that he "changes" and accepts his friends shows that he also yearns to be.
GS being Goblin Slayer, correct? Speaking as someone who kinda hates Goblin Slayer (at least season 1 and the movie) but loves Chainsaw Man, this was an interesting perspective! Thank you for sharing!
@@NINJAMUSHI yes I meant Goblin Slayer, it gets a terrible rep and for obvious reasons. I personally enjoy the interactions between characters and how the world and characters change around such interactions.
I found Chainsaw Man to be like the 'Invincible' of action manga, when i first read it, it always made me go "holy shit i can't believe they pulled that!"
That is a really good comparison. It is a parody/interpretation of the concept of Shonen Battle manga the same way Invincible is a parody/interpretation of the concept of Superhero comic books.
there's also a nude cover for a certain chapter, absolutely wild
@@nobodywatchesnooby That one lesbian orgy colored panel 💀
Great video dude, excellent stuff.
Thank you!!
Just found your channel and tbh I feel your channel needs more attention, amazing video, keep it up!!!
thank you, that means a lot :)
I love this analysis, also love the idea that one piece is the exception of the big three, in that it hasn't been a clipboard for other stories to copy, and that nothing compares to it in scale and storytelling, similar to chainsaw man, but on a much larger scale
I would say that Makima does have quite the tragic backstory which allows us to sympathise her especially at the end of Chainsawman. All her life she was brought up by the government who utilised her only for her powers and she only ever had relationships through the perspective of the master and those that she controls. At the end it's described that her greatest desire was to be one that was equal to her (e.g. Pochita/Chainsawman) and seen through her reincarnation as Nayuta her greatest desire was to simply be hugged. Makima's character is suprisingly tragic considering all the stuff she does.
Yeah, I wouldn't disagree with that. I do think she's still irredeemable. It's very much a case of understanding why a character is a bad person but, at the end of the day, they're still a bad person.
I like how on a more meta level, Chainsaw Man and Demon Slayer's effects on and role in the world of Shonen can be indicative of their narrative themes.
One of the core themes of Chainsaw Man is finding one's own identity. Denji fights for what he wants, regardless of how stupid or pathetic other people find him to be, and by the end he learns to value himself regardless of what others think about him. He doesn't care if Makima thinks he's unworthy to be Chainsaw Man, he will continue to be Chainsaw Man for himself. He quits Public Safety and becomes independent to raise Nayuta as a single father/older brother figure. Plus with how sketchy the government is in Chainsaw Man (giving away the lives of their own citizens to Devils for contracts, trying to use Devils as WMDs), it's probably safe to say Fujimoto was trying to make some sort of commentary on abuse of all forms, whether it's familial (Denji's dad), romantic/professional (Makima), or authoritative (the government). So it makes sense that Chainsaw Man would be a unique gem within Shonen; something that differentiates itself and makes its own identity.
Meanwhile one of the core themes of Demon Slayer is setting an example and following the noble paths of the past. As Muzan (and a few other characters) say, the only immortal thing about humans is the ideas that they pass on after they die. The Demon Slayers in the past might have failed to kill Muzan or the Upper Moons, but the current generation builds on their techniques and either improves them or invents new variants, and eventually they succeed where their ancestors have failed. Even Yoriichi, the strongest swordsman of all time, failed where the current generation has succeeded. Ubuyashiki, the leader of the Demon Slayers, dies before Muzan is slain but his son carries on his father's legacy and finally ends the war. Just like how its characters respect and carry on the legacy of their deceased comrades and improve it, Demon Slayer was clearly meant to be a love letter to traditional Shonen, smoothing out the rough edges while keeping its core identity and purpose intact.
this is one of the best analysis' i have ever come across!!!!
Thank you! :)
My dude, you manage to convey a good analysis for Chainsawman. Especially the power level. You gain a sub my dude and i hope you make more!
Thank you! I will be sooner than later!
I appreciate someone being able to call Demon Slayer straightforward, simple, and even specifically calling it worse than a contemporary, without senselessly calling it "mid" and while actually appreciating it for its strengths.
Great vid bro
thank you!
great insight!
Holy shit Tanjiro and Deku would hate Denji, or be uncomfortable with him at the VERY least.
You know the biggest weakness in modern shōnen that Chainsaw Man was able to perfectly pull off? The third act/ending of the series (even if it's Part 1)
Like I read so many complaints over the endings of Naruto, Bleach, Seven Deadly Sins, SnK and even Demon Slayer (that even I was disappointed) that I was not expecting to finally find a shōnen where the ending felt completely deserved and satisfactory.
The final two arcs of Chainsaw Man (Gun Devil and Control Devil arc) are peak fiction, it was a total rollercoaster of emotions, and it made me feel like I was watching End of Evangelion all over again (which I know Fujimoto is a fan of) and the level of detail, parallelism and symbolism between the first arcs and the final arcs are insane. Fujimoto's writing and visual storytelling are the glue that keeps this series together as one of the best mangas I've ever read.
Great video man, hope see more videos like this from you!!!
Thank you!!
I like how you end the video
Those closing statements gonna leave nostalgic feelings to us in the far future
Yeah, I'm curious to see how people look back on them in the future
I love Demon Slayer so much. It's one of my favorite and never get tired of it. I'm looking forward to Chainsaw man adaptation
I'm really glad to hear that!! Keep loving whatcha love!
Also the editing in this video is sooooooooooooooo good
Must have taken you ages to get all the panels
Especially since you use the right ones to illustrate your points
Yeah, if doesn't help that I'm super picky about which ones I use. Sometimes I even have to "fix" artwork that gets cut off or is partly covered by drawing it myself. For instance, I drew parts of Tanjiro's hair and sword hilt in the thumbnail (those parts are covered by text bubbles in the original art). But those are the kinda details no one will ever notice, haha. Thank you though!
Awesome video. A thorough, good faith, and objective comparative analysis of traditional archetypal heroes and antiheros.
Thank you!!
i love how when youre talking about makima, youre playing makima by oliver hoss in the background. Song is straight heat.
Thank you so much for analysis.
Throughout my name of watching anime and reading manga, I too had a theory that the best and most popular titles sit in either two categories:
“Do what’s currently popular and do it very well” vs “Go against what’s popular and make something of your own”.
Your choice of Demon Slayer and Chainsaw Man were exactly spot on with the categories you laid out. We can always use these to our advantage when gaging what stories we love and why we do or why we don’t.
Personally, I think that if UFOTABLE weren’t animating Demon Slayer, it wouldn’t have been as popular breaking that many records. It would perhaps be popular but just seen as average shounen.
However on the flip side, I truly believe that CHAINSAW MAN’s popularity will skyrocket, rival, and even surpass the likes of Demon Slayer and Jujutsukaisen. The popularity has always been on an upward trend, and got EVEN MORE popular after its anime ANNOUNCEMENT. Not the release of the anime, the ANNOUNCEMENT.
An advantage of being an Innovator in a space is that you will be forever remembered for setting that idea or trope. I’m the case of CHAINSAW MAN, Makima and the idea of “dog like loyalty” , will forever be synonymous will “sex appeal and horniness” across the internet. These days, you will see people vehemently barking under posts with intent for sex appeal. And CHAINSAW MAN is a large part of that and will grow even more after the anime.
Thank you for this analysis.
chainsaw man is EXTREMELY unique by shonen standards, but I couldn’t help but notice the similarities between it and the magnus archives when I read it two years ago. They’re completely separate mediums but the concept of fear manifesting into entities beyond comprehension and main characters that one would have difficulty relating to and containing an aspect of said entities is exceedingly similar. Frankly, I love the trope.
Interesting, I'll have to give it a look!
@@NINJAMUSHI yeah, it's pretty cool! completely different vibes to eachother but conceptually, at least at the beginnng, they're pretty similar.
It's JJK and Tokyo Ghoul.
Amazing video!!
Thank you!
This video is amazing! You need more subscribers!
Thank you! I'm glad to hear that!
CSM sneakily feeds slice of life to shonen fans. That's really effective.
Didn't Mob Psycho do that as well?
@@yvngyagami yes, these shows always pop of.
Most people just think they dislike romcom/slice-of-life.
It might be the most important part of shonen, since it sets the stage
Great video. Me personally like CSM more and its currently my favorite manga (future anime) because its so different to any other shonen. Its fast paced and it brings emotion into the story, even tho it is fast paced imo. I don't like demon slayer that much, because of the classic story telling of battle shonen, but some people like it. The main reason I watch the anime of DS is due to the unbeliveable animation.
Oh yeah, that's super fair. CSM is just a super fun and emotionally driven series. Thank you!
great video. thanks for the heads up on the major spoilers part
no problem!!
hey bro awesome video!! i just read chainsaw man not too long ago and its honestly awesome. One of my favorite mangas i own and followed was tokyo ghoul and chainsaw man really stuck out to me just as much as tokyo ghoul did. I think what stood out to me about chainsaw man was how it reminded me of tokyo ghoul in the uniqueness of the world, the story telling, story pacing, as well as the characters and what drives them (and the action and gore of course lol). You really summed up why it stands out from others really well. I haven't gotten into demon slayer yet but ive heard from my friends and even my dad that it's really good. awesome video again bro!
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it!
Well said, Demon Slayer does exactly what I’d expect out of Shonen but it does it in a way that’s fresh and emotional while Chainsaw Man just takes what I’d expect it to do, throw it out the window in exchange for something absolutely twisted and I love it so much. Also it sound like you’ve play no more heroes. A man of culture 👌
No More Heroes is one of my absolute favorite series 😎
I specifically relate to when you said “people who love shounen but don’t want their time wasted”, which is literally the exact reason I haven’t watched dragon ball or one piece
I was Reading the manga and i must say that It became mid in wano,actually It was Very good before the time Skip,so yeah
@@luksalter8200 it peaked during Marine Fort
Damn is this a great video and is very important to anyone making manga or comics
Well, I'm actually making a comic so I guess I should take my own advice, haha. Thank you though!
@@NINJAMUSHI we should compare ideas and art let me know how to get a hold of you , I believe great manga’s are like high fashion , you know when its right , and its never “subjective “ theres a high skill ,talent and creativity within the golden road of making manga
Call me crazy, but at the conceptual level, I'd say Jujutsu Kaisen was more 'adaptive' than Demon Slayer. Demon Slayer just goes ham on animation. Jujutsu Kaisen actually adopts classic narrative structures from previous shonen, but reinterprets how characters operate within those structures much more deeply. Also, Jujutsu Kaisen is just so clean... The way they frontload the powerscaling to prep the audience and balance out the character tropes between light hearted and heavy is just way better.
Fax
Demon slayer is great at being a good story for most people to like. While Chainsaw Man is an amazing story that isn’t for everyone.
Yeah, I could agree with that for sure