Not to be rude, but I believe that Matt said Vecna was around during the calamity. He was ultimately defeated by the dawn father and the undermining work of his underling Kas.
Tharizdun is probably the most out of place of Exandria’s Gods. He’s so crazy that it doesn’t make sense that he wouldn’t be been sealed away by the other gods immediately. Like… he’s such a big threat that even the betrayer gods would’ve fought him.
I read the title as "Big Daddies Explained" and was like yup that works. Should mention that Uk'otoa is a "lesser idol" and not a betrayer god. It was created by Zehir. But this all raises an interesting question... We knew that towards the end of campaign 1, Vecna ascended into godhood. We've recently learned from EXU Calamity that in order to do that, you have to take the place of an existing god. So who did Vecna replace?
I think the explanation was that he created a new "Domain" of secrets, hatred, and undeath, rather than usurping a current God's Domain like the Raven Queen did.
@@kmbehrens14 to quote "Mutiple ninth nevel speeells cuz hes a fuckin Goood." He ascended before they finished making the tramels to banish him but was banished before he figured out how to affect things past his avatar. So now hes the weakest betrayer god essentially. And trapped way over der.
Technically a big plot point in campaign 2 was his release and stopping of and he was quite literally stated by matt to be behind that big flesh city and the somnovum
@@lawejo campaigns 2 wrap up he said that the chains breaking from cognouza was thrizudune influence breaking tharizdune became interested in cognouza and helped it along to the point of it becoming a flesh city matt was vague during the campaign because he didnt want to immediately reveal that the big bad was caused by tharizdune
You realise the gods and calamity is tied to Exandria as a whole, not just Wildemount. Exandria is the name of the whole world, Wildemount is just 1 continent.
I would just like to see more aspects of the calamity flushed out on screen. This stuff is so good. And it’s so vast a story to tell. It would be cool to see all the different facets slowly working together around a central theme.
Well, I wonder what happened to the Betrayers now that the ritual was done...everyone's so focused on the gods beyond the divine gate, they didn't think about the ones that were banished beforehand.
I feel like they couldve squeezed a wee bit of information about Halas. As the time matt stated that he has achieved numerous heinous experiment in his own right. Also having an astral dreadnought says a lot about his prowess.
I mean they could have but he isn't a god and doesn't worship. It would be like making a video about different currencies around the world and saying steeling things is also a way of getting things, while true not relevant
you seem to be relying a lot on the words of the Lord of Hells from EXU Calamity, even when it contradicts other sources. Now, the creation myth in sources like Tal'Dorei Reborn and the Explorer's Guide to Wildemount may not be accurate either, but they both say that the primordials were "beneath the elements" and "unknown to the Creator gods." And Exandria: An Intimate History, which has no qualifications regarding its accuracy, says only that the Primordial titans "rose to end this attempt at taming their world", which corroborates the myth from the books as much or more than the stories woven by Asmodeus to entice any wayward paladins to his side. Because again, the canonical Intimate History tells us that the Betrayers were "overwhelmed by grief, loss, and frustration" and thus chose to side with the titans to wipe the slate clean and start over.
I view these inconsistencies as a different telling of the same story. They were written by people with different interpretations of how Exandria formed. Matt Mercer has even stated that people are free to change what they want with the lore. Kinda adds to the "It's ancient history so who knows for sure"
Could you cover the lesser idols too pls? Such as UK'otoa, Disirat the Twilight Phoenix (Asmodeus's mount) & Quajath (Worm child of Torog imprisoned in ice and is a food source for a brainwashed tribe). Or even Vesh the bloody siren, Kash's patron XD
Which Betrayer god We would like to see first? Well We had two, First Loth in EXU 1 and in EXU Kymal, Number two is Asmodeus in EXU Calamity. We also got a smal amount with Tharizdun in Campaign 2 but I do not know if it counts. I count Loth since The Crown keapers spend so much time with her in EXU 1. If We are talking about in the main Campaign, I hope We get to see Loth. I hope Opal meet the Bells Hell and somehow get more time with Loth.
I haven’t dug into the deep mythology of either system, but what is the relationship between D&D and Pathfinder here? I know Pathfinder “split off” from D&D 4E (in an unofficial capacity); are the mythologies the same? I know the animated LoVM has already needed to change some names for copyright reasons, so I’m very curious about this shared intellectual property. Thanks!
Pathfinder is owned by Paizo and they have split their mythologies completely with different gods and backgrounds. Sarenrae for example was an archangel equivalent who ascended while fighting Rovagug a primordial deity and a qlippoth a race that inhabited the CE Abyss before the coming of demons in Pathfinder. She has no relation with any D&D gods. The only reason Asmodeus is in both is because he is part of a real world religion and not made up for either game.
@@archmageeldran2567 Thanks. I think I've also heard Torag mentioned in a Pathfinder podcast, so it seems like Sarenrae isn't the only holdover. And I know that Critical Role started on PF, so those names sneak over sometimes (I heard Abidar once or twice). I know "real world" mythology pretty well, so I'm never surprised by that stuff. :-)
There's a lot of crossover, isn't there? A lot of these gods don't have distinct spheres. Lolth- darkness and deceit. Tharazidun- death and trickery. Vecna- necromancy and secrets. Makes me wonder if Vecna and Lolth were both influenced by Tharazidun, since their spheres of influence are all so similar, and Tharazidun is by far more powerful than them.
About Vecna, I appreciate drawing a distinction between him and the authentic Betrayer Gods -- but is he really? Does anybody actually know? The Explorer's Guide to Wildemount classifies Vecna as a Betrayer God, and that's about as canon as something can get. Now Vecns turned from mortal to god in Forgotten Realms lore. But then why isn't Vecna still around in Exandria? If he became a god after the others were locked behind the gawd-wall, he should be walking down the street in Rexxium, right? I suspect that several of the gods of Exandria are distinct entities from their counterparts in other D&D settings. The Vecna of Exandria and the Vecna of Faerun are different guys, like alternate Peter Parker's. Different Tiamats... Different Palors... Different Vecnas with different origin stories... It's a clunky and inelegant explanation, but it would resolve various contradictions in the lore.
Have you watched C1? Vecna ascended to a deity status, and then was shunned to the other side of the divine gate (or banished somewhere, that I don't remember) so Vecna is around the same amount as the other gods, but they're not physically on Exandria
Vecna ascended to godhood at the end of Critical Role campaign 1 and was then theist behind the Devine Gate. It was the final major conflict of the campaign. He is considered a betrayer god more for his domain and wicked tendencies than committing the same act of betrayal the others did.
Well I really was disappointed about the betrayer gods. That's what I learned from critical role. And use titan gods instead. My titan gods killed their enemies
![АЛАУДИНОВ у Скабеевой: эти их ВСУ нас НЕ ДОГОНЯТ 😁 [Пародия]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/an0anqU4WGQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Which Betrayer God would you like to see make an appearance in Critical Role?
Bane
Asmodeus, if hes played by Brennan ;) Otherwise I think Tharizdun would fit quite nicely in campaign 3.
Not to be rude, but I believe that Matt said Vecna was around during the calamity. He was ultimately defeated by the dawn father and the undermining work of his underling Kas.
Love if you did the “new gods.” Like raven queen, vecna, or even other devils and demons alike
Tharizdun is probably the most out of place of Exandria’s Gods. He’s so crazy that it doesn’t make sense that he wouldn’t be been sealed away by the other gods immediately. Like… he’s such a big threat that even the betrayer gods would’ve fought him.
I read the title as "Big Daddies Explained" and was like yup that works.
Should mention that Uk'otoa is a "lesser idol" and not a betrayer god. It was created by Zehir.
But this all raises an interesting question... We knew that towards the end of campaign 1, Vecna ascended into godhood. We've recently learned from EXU Calamity that in order to do that, you have to take the place of an existing god. So who did Vecna replace?
I think the explanation was that he created a new "Domain" of secrets, hatred, and undeath, rather than usurping a current God's Domain like the Raven Queen did.
did it not say in exe thats he replaced the god of death?
@@d4s0n282 Nah that's the raven queen, and the god of UNdeath is Orcus. Vecna is the god of secrets and hatred
Did he ascend? I thought the last battle of VM was to prevent his ascension, but it’s been a long time since I’ve watched those eps.
@@kmbehrens14 to quote "Mutiple ninth nevel speeells cuz hes a fuckin Goood."
He ascended before they finished making the tramels to banish him but was banished before he figured out how to affect things past his avatar. So now hes the weakest betrayer god essentially. And trapped way over der.
Tharizidun has been hinted at for ever in CR. I'd be shocked if someone else showed up first.
Technically a big plot point in campaign 2 was his release and stopping of and he was quite literally stated by matt to be behind that big flesh city and the somnovum
@@michaelliggett1622 flesh city sounds cozy, i feel i wont feel alone as my walls are alive
@@michaelliggett1622 Do you by chance remember where Matt talked about that? I'm always down for some more lore
@@lawejo campaigns 2 wrap up he said that the chains breaking from cognouza was thrizudune influence breaking tharizdune became interested in cognouza and helped it along to the point of it becoming a flesh city matt was vague during the campaign because he didnt want to immediately reveal that the big bad was caused by tharizdune
@@michaelliggett1622 And honestly, if the power of Big T is to be estimated, it would've taken a MN & VM team up to beat it.
"Which Betrayer God would you like to see make an appearance in Critical Role?"
Gruumsh and Lolth.
Yes. I would love to see a Paladin of Gruumsh causing havoc in Exandria
@@nicolasrodriguesdossantos1881 Alongside an Eye of Gruumsh.
technically, In EXU: Unlimited, we do have Lolth show up, idk if you count that as an "appearance in CR"
@@willnelson9906 Not really. It was just her voice. But I could see it counting in a way.
@@Rednecknerd_rob9634 i mean yes, But a PC literally became her champion, i'd say she was pretty important, so she'd count.
I feel you should just do a deep dive lore on the entire wildemount setting. The gods, calamity, which you pretty much did, each city, races, etc, etc
You realise the gods and calamity is tied to Exandria as a whole, not just Wildemount. Exandria is the name of the whole world, Wildemount is just 1 continent.
I would just like to see more aspects of the calamity flushed out on screen. This stuff is so good. And it’s so vast a story to tell. It would be cool to see all the different facets slowly working together around a central theme.
There is a scene in legends of Vox machina that depicts the calamity and it's fucking epic, armies clashing while the gods watch in the background
10:30 Zerxus Ilerez coming back in C3 as a villain would be awesome ngl !!!!!
Well, I wonder what happened to the Betrayers now that the ritual was done...everyone's so focused on the gods beyond the divine gate, they didn't think about the ones that were banished beforehand.
I feel like they couldve squeezed a wee bit of information about Halas. As the time matt stated that he has achieved numerous heinous experiment in his own right. Also having an astral dreadnought says a lot about his prowess.
I mean they could have but he isn't a god and doesn't worship. It would be like making a video about different currencies around the world and saying steeling things is also a way of getting things, while true not relevant
Ah yes, Erebos, my favorite betrayer god
There's something oddly charming about dnd UA-cam relying Heavily on MtG cards for their imagery.
@@tkshillinz9334 i agree haha
you seem to be relying a lot on the words of the Lord of Hells from EXU Calamity, even when it contradicts other sources. Now, the creation myth in sources like Tal'Dorei Reborn and the Explorer's Guide to Wildemount may not be accurate either, but they both say that the primordials were "beneath the elements" and "unknown to the Creator gods." And Exandria: An Intimate History, which has no qualifications regarding its accuracy, says only that the Primordial titans "rose to end this attempt at taming their world", which corroborates the myth from the books as much or more than the stories woven by Asmodeus to entice any wayward paladins to his side. Because again, the canonical Intimate History tells us that the Betrayers were "overwhelmed by grief, loss, and frustration" and thus chose to side with the titans to wipe the slate clean and start over.
I view these inconsistencies as a different telling of the same story. They were written by people with different interpretations of how Exandria formed. Matt Mercer has even stated that people are free to change what they want with the lore. Kinda adds to the "It's ancient history so who knows for sure"
Could you cover the lesser idols too pls? Such as UK'otoa, Disirat the Twilight Phoenix (Asmodeus's mount) & Quajath (Worm child of Torog imprisoned in ice and is a food source for a brainwashed tribe). Or even Vesh the bloody siren, Kash's patron XD
I greatly appricate it
Man, fk the good goods of this realm.
Would love to see tiamat and arkhan returning in the future
Fun video, what the heck is up with all the spam bot comments though, weird.
Where did the lore of the ruidis born hero come from?
Which Betrayer god We would like to see first?
Well We had two, First Loth in EXU 1 and in EXU Kymal, Number two is Asmodeus in EXU Calamity.
We also got a smal amount with Tharizdun in Campaign 2 but I do not know if it counts. I count Loth since The Crown keapers spend so much time with her in EXU 1.
If We are talking about in the main Campaign, I hope We get to see Loth. I hope Opal meet the Bells Hell and somehow get more time with Loth.
We are currently doing a campaign in this world I have a question about ioun
Yo why was the thumbnail Phenax, Erebos, and Pharika from Theros?
I haven’t dug into the deep mythology of either system, but what is the relationship between D&D and Pathfinder here? I know Pathfinder “split off” from D&D 4E (in an unofficial capacity); are the mythologies the same? I know the animated LoVM has already needed to change some names for copyright reasons, so I’m very curious about this shared intellectual property. Thanks!
Pathfinder is owned by Paizo and they have split their mythologies completely with different gods and backgrounds. Sarenrae for example was an archangel equivalent who ascended while fighting Rovagug a primordial deity and a qlippoth a race that inhabited the CE Abyss before the coming of demons in Pathfinder. She has no relation with any D&D gods. The only reason Asmodeus is in both is because he is part of a real world religion and not made up for either game.
@@archmageeldran2567 Thanks. I think I've also heard Torag mentioned in a Pathfinder podcast, so it seems like Sarenrae isn't the only holdover. And I know that Critical Role started on PF, so those names sneak over sometimes (I heard Abidar once or twice). I know "real world" mythology pretty well, so I'm never surprised by that stuff. :-)
@@kmbehrens14 you might be confusing Pathfinder Torag with CR’s Torog as Torag is basically Pathfinders Moradin.
@@archmageeldran2567 Probably! Thanks for the clarification!
why is Erebos in the thumbnail?
Can I post a link to this on the r/fansofcriticalrole subreddit
There's a lot of crossover, isn't there? A lot of these gods don't have distinct spheres.
Lolth- darkness and deceit.
Tharazidun- death and trickery.
Vecna- necromancy and secrets.
Makes me wonder if Vecna and Lolth were both influenced by Tharazidun, since their spheres of influence are all so similar, and Tharazidun is by far more powerful than them.
Ah yes Phenax, Erebos and Pharika. Definitely God's of Exandria and not MTG's Theros...
About Vecna, I appreciate drawing a distinction between him and the authentic Betrayer Gods -- but is he really? Does anybody actually know? The Explorer's Guide to Wildemount classifies Vecna as a Betrayer God, and that's about as canon as something can get. Now Vecns turned from mortal to god in Forgotten Realms lore. But then why isn't Vecna still around in Exandria? If he became a god after the others were locked behind the gawd-wall, he should be walking down the street in Rexxium, right?
I suspect that several of the gods of Exandria are distinct entities from their counterparts in other D&D settings. The Vecna of Exandria and the Vecna of Faerun are different guys, like alternate Peter Parker's. Different Tiamats... Different Palors... Different Vecnas with different origin stories...
It's a clunky and inelegant explanation, but it would resolve various contradictions in the lore.
Have you watched C1? Vecna ascended to a deity status, and then was shunned to the other side of the divine gate (or banished somewhere, that I don't remember) so Vecna is around the same amount as the other gods, but they're not physically on Exandria
Vecna ascended to godhood at the end of Critical Role campaign 1 and was then theist behind the Devine Gate. It was the final major conflict of the campaign. He is considered a betrayer god more for his domain and wicked tendencies than committing the same act of betrayal the others did.
Yeah, most of this is already in C1
His goal was to be god upon exandria, but he was unable to stay there, as he was sealed beyond the gate.
Two words: Pop filter.
Was going to say that.
Well I really was disappointed about the betrayer gods. That's what I learned from critical role. And use titan gods instead.
My titan gods killed their enemies
Titans are kind of above gods thou