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@@unsolicitedadvice9198 forget push pull. In reality it is terrible tactics to get her. You should instead go the natural way the way our ancestors did it when they had no language.
@@unsolicitedadvice9198 all this nonsense hitting on someone that doesn't like you is because we forgot the body language communication. Just a simple touch of her hand can tell you everything you need to know about your chances of getting her. If she moves her hand away then move on. If she lets you touch her then move closer to her until you are making love... It is that simple.
For some reason I think this spiraling of idealization is inherent to human beings. Once reality hits, that is extremely painful. But it is also where love can actually exist, in non-perfection, in vulnerability, in two defected beings being ideal for one another.
I have learned throughout my life that there is one key distinction between healthy and unhealthy love: fantasy. The more you think about a person and imagine life with them, the more you are creating subconscious expectations and distancing yourself from reality. It's a natural instinct to start fantasizing about your crush, but that only sets you up for disappointment. We like to make excuses like "I can't help myself", but that's never true. What you feed, grows. You have the power to organize your life in such a way that you're not stuck daydreaming about a love that deep down, you know isn't going to happen. Ultimately, love shouldn't be like one person running face first into the other and hoping that they'll fall into open arms. It should be more like a dance, where you take turns taking steps towards each other. That love is every bit as vibrant, and in addition, equal.
In my opinion. People get a deep craving and call it love. Love is very humbling, sacrificial and unpleasant. If Vert loved Charlotte he would have been glad that she had a noble and well of husband that she loved and conceeded that she may very well be better off with albert than him, and since vert loved her he would wants whats best for her and not whats best for himself.
Talking like a dude who would share his wife with multiple other dudes since she said that would make her happy and you love her. What is the hell is wrong with you?
You're grossly simplifying how love works, maybe in your naive and idealistic head love it's supposed work this way, but if you ever get in intense love you'll know how possessive and selfish humans become
I really like your interpretation of the end - that Werther was actually loved by more people than he thought. However, the way I percieve the end is that Albert starts seeing Werther as a rival. When Werther asks Albert to give him a gun for his travels, Albert specifically wants Charlotte to hand over the firearm to the messenger, thus to Werther himself. As if he had a idea Werther was up to no good and wanted to punish Charlotte by “blood on her hands” for being in such an intense friendship with Werther.
This video came at just the right time. I am literally in a Werter situation right now. Every single line describes my current situation. Thank you very much for posting this video. It genuinely helped me to gain perspective and pull the emergency brake before the metaphorical train crashed. Thank you, Unsolicited Advice. Keep up the good work.
there’s like 0% chance yall have an understanding of the point of this story from a 20 min explanation. UA does a great job but if you really think you need perspective on this situation, read the novel in it’s entirety & then really try to understand what it’s saying…
This was one of Napoleons favorite books, if not his favorite. He told Goethe he read it on the Egyptian Campaign alone 6 times. Funny enough, I just did a video yesterday on it!
@@unsolicitedadvice9198 Napoleon met Goethe in 1808 and Goethe was actually impressed by Napoleon talking non stop about Werther. He was a genuine fan. Goethe had great things to say about him afterwards. Here's an exact quote "Napoleon was the man! Always enlightened, always clear and decided, and endowed with sufficient energy to carry into effect whatever he considered advantageous and necessary. His life was the stride of a demi-god, from battle to battle, and from victory to victory. It might well be said of him, that he was found in a state of continual enlightenment. On this account, his destiny was more brilliant than any the world had seen before him, or perhaps will ever see after him"
The way that even after he died, despite rejecting him romantically, she still cared about him really speaks to me. I remeber hearing about a study where they showed that often times the person who rejected a crush experienced more emotional pain then the one confessing. Shows how complicated love can be. Really enjoy your videos!
If only Werther realised that his love dependend only on him and not on Charlotte to grow strong, he maybe would have found consolation in the ability to feel such pure and strong emotions, that even if Charlotte abandoned him completely, nothing could have taken his newly forged identity away. Some people criticise the notion of "being in love with love", but I think it's exactly what helps us thrive in case of heartbreak. Even if unrequited, that person has shown us a new side of ourselves, one capable of bold and strong feelings, having understood that even in face of rejection one would be grateful and let the bitter feeling slowly wash away
I remember reading the book and the couch scene struck me the most.I remember it so vividly as they both cried.The book does glorify suicide and sorrow but not to an overwhelming excess.Infact a critic said that werthers suicide ideation could easily be dispelled by the smell of pancakes which was really funny.
Oh please. He is talking about Eros and human nature as dark as it is, go somewhere else with your curated, manufactured, perfect , no real view of love. I tell you, this sanctimonious, virtual signaling comment just irritates me.
@@sdust251977 if you're smart enough to figure that out then how could you not be smart enough to know love is synonyms for without getting offended and then ironically acting like a hypocritical victim getting all emotional over it. 😒
I've been in love truly only once 14 years together and still am if im honest . We were a super nova and it burnt too fast and too hard and then exploded on itself. I have to conclude , that at least I had real love once in a lifetime ❤ Some people never experience that joy so I'm grateful for that time in my life. Also grateful to you for your uploads, they help the self reflection stage of life to be much more bearable.
This hit really close to home. I fell in love truly for the first time this year. The girl in question,like Charlotte, did not want the same romantic relationship I did. My world legitimately felt as if everything became more vibrant and her messages were the highlight of my day, but once I found out she didn’t seek the same thing I did, like Werther, I went through the entire spectrum of negative emotions. I simultaneously felt an intoxicated high around her, and hated my conscious for feeling so attached, despite being completely aware that there was a low chance of me ever winding up with her. Although I wouldn’t have ended my own life, what kept me from a continuous downward spiral, was the fact that I had self-love, the love of my family, and the brotherhood of my close guy friends. Coincidentally, a few of them were suffering a similar romantic situation. We laughed as we would discuss the frustrations these girls would cause us and how their words were also the most enchanting from our perceptions. I was so lucky to have friends with similar struggles whom I could confide in. Remember your bois, they’re the ones who will be there in your time of need. “Bros before hoes” - Moon Tzu, The Art of Peace
you seriously have like no grasp of this story at all I’m sorry to say, you really need to re-read it or read it for the first time cause you’re taking all the wrong things from it.
I am horrified by the prevailing schools of thought as of late and what they say about love. The idea that love and romance are, like everything else, a social construct is just shy of evil. Thank you for fostering more intelligent inquiry of the affliction. I really need to read this book.
Why would it be evil? Of course it's a social construct. It doesn't mean we will not appreciate it, be fascinated by it, or find poetry in it. As usual, we can have multiple things at once.
@@davidsenra2495 I don't think it is accurate or useful to say love is a social construct. That is like saying warmth is a social construct. The word is constructed, how it is expressed and understood is constructed, but the force that is love is as real as gravity. If we reduce the perception of it to something we came up with then it also becomes something we can do away with. And a world without love, without warmth, would be colder than the vacuum of space.
My friend and a married man of 8 years said to me "love is ignoring 99 traits you hate about your partner and staying for 1 trait you love about them ".(Hope I translated it well Sorry my English is getting worse because of the lack of practice).
Your English is still perfectly readable (better than some native speakers); you should put quotation marks ( "these characters" ) to quote your friend
Feeling like werther at this point.. Just when i thought being a regular viewer is too big of a commitment for me, i receive something like "another crumb of attention form Charlotte" that keeps me hooked to your channel. sounded cringe but no problem😂
Same but honestly, it comforts me a little to know and see how deeply and similarly others humans have felt to how i feel right now. It makes you feel less alone with it and hopefully you will gain a sense of comfort from that instead of chasing after people who can‘t reciprocate your love and need for companionship.
@@jessisworld2574 im so sorry if it was misleading, im not actually feeling like werther in real life. I just said it in a sarcastic way to demonstrate how much i like his videos. Although im not in that kind of situation right now, i can totally understand how that might feel as we all are continously chasing after something. I wish everyone practised contentment, solitude and gratitude more often.I loved your reply btw, it shows how sensible you are. have a great day!
This was wonderful and very enlightening study. Me being an unempathetic stoic myself dismissed Werther's feelings as juvenile lunacy but now I understand the emotional perspective of most humnan beings that I have a difficult time relating to. Thank you unsolicited advice, your unsolicited advice is very much appreciated.
Man, watching your videos in my spare time became a habit I'm very fond of, I've been thinking of reading this book as it's a classic by Goethe and if it's half as good as this "analysis" it might become my favourite book
I've never been able to experience romance in the same way after finishing this particular book and listening to Wagner's Tristan und Isolde. Both works read like the coronation of decadence and ugliness. Both brilliant artists, nevertheless. As always, thank you for the great video!
Thank you. My first exposure to W was through the opera, which I found melodramatic. Your discussion has led me to be empathetc. I had been surprised that a genius like Goethe wrote a tearjerker. But now my understanding is somewhat better. Be well.
I was really looking foward this video! That book has always peaked my interest, but knowing myself well enough, I sensibly decided not to read it when I was (way) less mature. Your take is fantastic and the recording is look better than ever. Happy was the day I joined this channel. Much respect, and Please... Please wish the steward my best!
Frankly, I think Werther never loved Charlotte - he demanded her, craved her, wanted her but the only thing he didn't even thought about was letting her be happy without him. Love is common, humble and sacrificial, it's when wife makes husband a breakfast to work despite being sleep or when husband mows the lawn despite a headache. What he felt was passion, not love.
I have never experienced it so I have always found these subjects fascinating. Love is perceived as such a common experience, yet can be quite unobtainable. I have always had to take other people's word for it and has become a subject of study, for me.
I was similar to the guy in the story, pining after someone that didnt have any intrest. I just quietly waited thinking one day they'd like me back. It took a long time for me to see how toxic selfish and overall disgusting it was of me to think of a friend like that. I no longer feel any hint of that kind of love for them. Theyre like a sister to me at this point. Having gotten to this point i cant stand watching people like that or listing to stories like that. It just reminds me of how i was before and i think that leads me to finding those kinds of people gross. Its seems so unfair to put so much value into a single person.
I would implore everyone to read the novel. I think it becomes rather clear Werther does not love Charlotte in a real way, but in an idealised way, an all or nothing kind of way, as if he read a fantasised story on love & decided that was the only way it must be true. as soon as he doesn’t get what he wants he’s ready to abandon her & nearly everything else, including his own life. Werther diminishes the lives of everyone around him for his own self interest & to wallow in self-pity. He’s a tragic case of a person that completely absorbed himself in his fantasy & ideals of what the world owed him & refused to see anything or anyone else that genuinely cared for him.
Thank you so much for making videos like these unsolicitedadvice. They are really exceptional and I love how you interpreted this novel and how you ended it on a good note which also has a meaningful message in it. Hope to see more beautiful content like this in the future. 💪🏼💪🏼
Just finished reading the novel a couple days ago and Ive just gained a whole new perspective on it thanks to your video. However I think it is important to take into account the phrases he mentions in discussions with Albert regarding suicide and existential questions, which I believe happen to be spread through out the whole book. By taking them into account, I think a person is prone to be more understanding towards Werther and his decision to take his life. I personally believe that he has died a happy man, but maybe that's just my false interpretation of his thoughts. Also, the figure of the man who killed his own lover which you mentioned I found really interesting. Especially the part where Werther confronts his mother, if I remember correctly, and she talks about how her son was mad etc.. I believe this character deserves an analysis and I would love to see your view on it. Sorry if there are some grammatical or phrasal mistakes, English is not my native language. Great video, as always.
It sounds more like he was just not capable of happiness. He's kind of a tragic figure, and possibly ending his life was the only way to deal with this situation: he just didn't love himself, until finally it became that he hated himself, but for no good reason. I think he needed clinical psychology. My therapist was excellent at clearing up a lot of situations in my life, that I simply had no awareness of. It's kind of like a book about a form of mental illness. There was something wrong in this person's childhood and upbringing, his relationship with his mother, and he just didn't feel good about himself. I had the same issue. A few years of therapy, and issue is cleared up, and the world becomes a sunny place.
The mad clerk and the murderer are two different men. Two other visions of Werther's possible dysfunctional futures for his passion. Werther ultimately chooses a third dysfunctional solution to his unrequited love.
Stoicism does not insist that you avoid suffering. It rather says to decide what price you are willing to pay for what you want to do. If you want to run a race, consider all the training, the sacrifice, etc. that it will cost you, and you may still not win. Is this worth it to you? You decide.
Winning is not the prize. The preparation is. If you don't prepare, you will not reach your life's potential. Doesn't matter how little you think of your abilities, they will grow, as you push yourself. I know. I pushed myself. I didn't get a "gold medal", but I did get my self respect.
Really resonate with this video. Just had to say goodbye to someone who I had a very intense romantic attraction to (she could not return the feelings). I think I’ve had to accept this reality and learn to move on, though it ain’t the easiest thing. Recognizing the different kinds of love is so real tbh.
Something that I've spent my entire life investigating is related strongly to the idea of how Werther could have succeeded. How do we fall in love and how do we "make" people fall in love with us?
You can't. Well, unless you want to break the law outright and have them simulate whatever love is under duress. Maybe if you can trick them and imitate whatever traits and features they're looking for. But I still think it's all a spook. Cold pragmatism is a better play.
It might be of some use to take a "karmic" angle of view. We are meeting people with whom we have some unfinished bussines to do, and our relationships are "preconditioned" in that sense. You cannot force anything which is not destined.
20:50 I've been listening to a lot of philosophy recently and I almost choked because I've been becoming numb to some ideas/theories as I solidify my own understanding of things. The ending reminds me of how I lost myself in the hellish ideas of other people or events creating a depression. Therapy and other people didn't help me escape that mindset but 1 song I took the lyrics personally as a conversation to realize I have myself to live for as well as everyone around me in the present moment, not the past. Communication is key... Even to yourself
I hear you, but it never heals. The pain never goes away. It makes me hate myself for falling in love. I wish there was no "love" in the first place. It hurts, it is excruciating. No matter how much someone says, it'll get better, it doesn't. I never gets better for me.
I relished the time I was heartbroken. I wouldnt trade it for anything. It was the most excruciatingly unpleasant feeling I have ever experienced yet I never felt more alive. I couldn't sleep more than 4 hours a night, i couldnt enjoy a single meal, and found all the motivation to get in the best shape of my life, get rid of my bad habbits/indulgencies and leave the country and explore the world. I remember I looked in the mirror and asked, what would it take to forgive my self for selling my self out, and the answer came "be the best and most relentless version of your self" and so I did
@@Emin.V.Aliyev1 I really wish I could say the same some day. Regardless, it makes me happy that you were able to become someone you are proud of today.
On the leaden casket, he reads, "Who chooseth me must give and hazard all he hath Only a true lover can risk everything including his life for whom he loves
This whole concept of (narcissistic) romantic love is by men for men. Should most women trade love like this the civilization would be doomed. I think it significant that Goethe (as much as I admire him) had a very complicated relationship to women in his real life. Seems he could not decide between unearthly phantasies and rather vulgar direct aproach.
@@OscarBroman Funny thing you interpret my bad English like this 😁 I am just commenting on a book by a man about a man's take on love as explained by a man and discussed by mostly men. Seems to me that killing themselves if they do not get what they want and calling it "love" is rather a narcisstic men's bussines.
I can deeply relate to this as when in college, i once went from wise, suave philosopher to needy, foul-mouthed, violent Incel.. after i got out of that 'state', I kept wondering how i got there since it simply wasn't Me. This is one of the ways how Nature gets You.
Halfway through. I was assuming the topic would not be of interest to me, but you make it compelling. The reason I didnt think I would find it interesting is because these are riddles I have had answered (at least for myself) since I was 15. My first girlfriend, whom I adored, up and left for college, cutting communication and leaving me behind confused, alone, and still quite in love. I went through a series of feelings, but eventually had an epiphany; I didn't need her to love me, I only needed to love her! If you fall in love with a character in a tv show, or a book, do you sunder yourself with grief that they will never know you? Of course not! They arent even real. So how can you love them? Because the love is yours. It exists within you, regardless of the other. Enjoy it. The fluttering fire of passion is a fantastic fuel for writing and creativity. But it is short lived, and fickle, and exists until it doesn't. It does not live longer by being "with" someone. I knew my wife was the right one when our love felt less like a torrent and more like a calm stream; comfortable and sustainable. We will be celebrating our 18th year together this year; exactly half of our lives, and I could not be happier.
The only thing that can cause you a great deal of pain when u lose it is only if u loved it to begin with in the first place so suffering is something u risk while u love something it is inevitable especially if its a human being u must be willing to suffer if u are willing to love
I really enjoy the way you present philosophy in an easily digestible format. Your content is superb. I was wondering if you have read Milan Kundera and do you plan to make videos about his work? "Unbearable lightness of being" and "Immortality" are especially interesting to me and I would like to know your takes on those. Keep doing the great work!
Thank you so much! And I have never read him but one of my friends is a massive fan and he is definitely on my list. He says there is some similarities between the themes of his novels and some Nietzschean philosophy
Just finished, and hot damn! You are so good at keeping the most hard hitting points for the end! Well done. I am of the honest opinion that, save for cases of cognitive malfunction, tye vast majority of these torturous emotions are merely misunderstood by the person feeling them. They seem negative and potent, so they try to fight against them, but to bury the seed only makes it sprout and grow. We have to become better at listening and properly understanding what we are feeling; what our minds are telling us. It could be depression, anxiety, passionate longing, crushing nostalgia, or a litney of other feelings; they are all there for a reason. Not to drive you to some disasterous act in the physical world, but to understand better, and have a new perspective to be used. They must be honored, appreciated, and given their time.
"We never love anyone. What we love is the idea we have of someone. it's our own concept - our own selves - that we love. This is true in the whole gamut of love. in sexual love we seek our own pleasure via another body. in non-sexual love, we seek our own pleasure via our own idea. The masturbator may be object, but in point of fact he's the perfect logical expression of the lover. He's the only one who doesn't feign and doesn't fool himself."
Thank you ❤ I am afraid of spiraling into romantic love and not being able to return to the surface; I keep wondering the same: cut ties or try, even knowing it will cost my peace of mind? Will it be worth it, at least? Am I going to give it all and be left with nothing again?
TFW Plato already got a word for "SIMP", amazing genius. I'm gonna call every simpleton a "Werther" since negging is a pretty weak word in this dating era.
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Can you do a video on Ghazali's The incoherence of the philosophers
I would but I really don't know enough about Islamic theology to put it in its proper context
@@unsolicitedadvice9198 forget push pull. In reality it is terrible tactics to get her. You should instead go the natural way the way our ancestors did it when they had no language.
@@unsolicitedadvice9198 all this nonsense hitting on someone that doesn't like you is because we forgot the body language communication. Just a simple touch of her hand can tell you everything you need to know about your chances of getting her. If she moves her hand away then move on. If she lets you touch her then move closer to her until you are making love... It is that simple.
I have to mention a great thank you it makes life clear again from a human perspective.
"In the end,we were both blind
She never saw me , and i never saw anyone else."
nice quote! where did you get it?
@montalvomartinemilio5348 it's from the Dark Knight Rises. It was said by Bruce Wayne
For some reason I think this spiraling of idealization is inherent to human beings. Once reality hits, that is extremely painful. But it is also where love can actually exist, in non-perfection, in vulnerability, in two defected beings being ideal for one another.
Yeah, I think there is such a thing as fantasising too close to the Sun
But damn, isn't that the good stuff of life? @@unsolicitedadvice9198
Well said.
Love is a disease born out of weakness
I have learned throughout my life that there is one key distinction between healthy and unhealthy love: fantasy. The more you think about a person and imagine life with them, the more you are creating subconscious expectations and distancing yourself from reality. It's a natural instinct to start fantasizing about your crush, but that only sets you up for disappointment.
We like to make excuses like "I can't help myself", but that's never true. What you feed, grows. You have the power to organize your life in such a way that you're not stuck daydreaming about a love that deep down, you know isn't going to happen.
Ultimately, love shouldn't be like one person running face first into the other and hoping that they'll fall into open arms. It should be more like a dance, where you take turns taking steps towards each other. That love is every bit as vibrant, and in addition, equal.
Well if we all at least can be robots like like you with perfect thoughts and fantasies, wouldn't the world be a better place?
In my opinion. People get a deep craving and call it love. Love is very humbling, sacrificial and unpleasant. If Vert loved Charlotte he would have been glad that she had a noble and well of husband that she loved and conceeded that she may very well be better off with albert than him, and since vert loved her he would wants whats best for her and not whats best for himself.
People confuse love with obsession or misplaced lust, imo.
I think that's part of the theme of the book.
Talking like a dude who would share his wife with multiple other dudes since she said that would make her happy and you love her. What is the hell is wrong with you?
@NeiroKaitenthanks for providing more detail
You're grossly simplifying how love works, maybe in your naive and idealistic head love it's supposed work this way, but if you ever get in intense love you'll know how possessive and selfish humans become
I really like your interpretation of the end - that Werther was actually loved by more people than he thought. However, the way I percieve the end is that Albert starts seeing Werther as a rival. When Werther asks Albert to give him a gun for his travels, Albert specifically wants Charlotte to hand over the firearm to the messenger, thus to Werther himself. As if he had a idea Werther was up to no good and wanted to punish Charlotte by “blood on her hands” for being in such an intense friendship with Werther.
This video came at just the right time.
I am literally in a Werter situation right now. Every single line describes my current situation.
Thank you very much for posting this video. It genuinely helped me to gain perspective and pull the emergency brake before the metaphorical train crashed.
Thank you, Unsolicited Advice. Keep up the good work.
Happened to me as well a couple of years ago.
Time as they say, lest one ruminate, heals.
there’s like 0% chance yall have an understanding of the point of this story from a 20 min explanation. UA does a great job but if you really think you need perspective on this situation, read the novel in it’s entirety & then really try to understand what it’s saying…
This was one of Napoleons favorite books, if not his favorite. He told Goethe he read it on the Egyptian Campaign alone 6 times.
Funny enough, I just did a video yesterday on it!
Ah I'll have to check it out! Is it true Napoleon invited Goethe to French court, or is that just a legend?
@@unsolicitedadvice9198 Napoleon met Goethe in 1808 and Goethe was actually impressed by Napoleon talking non stop about Werther. He was a genuine fan. Goethe had great things to say about him afterwards. Here's an exact quote
"Napoleon was the man! Always enlightened, always clear and decided, and endowed with sufficient energy to carry into effect whatever he considered advantageous and necessary. His life was the stride of a demi-god, from battle to battle, and from victory to victory. It might well be said of him, that he was found in a state of continual enlightenment. On this account, his destiny was more brilliant than any the world had seen before him, or perhaps will ever see after him"
@@unsolicitedadvice9198 Also, its amazing your channel has grown so quickly. Ive been following you for maybe 4 or 5 months now. Congrats!
That's such a cool anecdote! I am imagining a cross-historical love triangle between Goethe, Napoleon, and Nietzsche now
Thank you so much! I am honestly really surprised at how quickly everything has grown
Dude, you write fantastic scripts. So good. It's like a nutritious food that tastes wonderful to eat. You're a pleasure to listen to sir.
Ah thank you! That’s very kind of you to say
His writing and speaking is really a joy. That’s why this is the best UA-cam channel.
William Blake said all wholsom food is caught without a net or a trap.
I know how this feels.
Pining after an engaged woman and going insane is the hardest lesson I've been taught.
i should have sticked to literature than going into that rabbit hole of self-help book… thank goodness i’m starting again 😭😭 thank you, you’re a gem
The way that even after he died, despite rejecting him romantically, she still cared about him really speaks to me. I remeber hearing about a study where they showed that often times the person who rejected a crush experienced more emotional pain then the one confessing. Shows how complicated love can be. Really enjoy your videos!
Can you link the study?
Often? That's just not true 😆. It can happen but maybe 5% to 8% of times
I love when you said the “momentum from the change made the impact all the more powerful.” nail on the head there
If only Werther realised that his love dependend only on him and not on Charlotte to grow strong, he maybe would have found consolation in the ability to feel such pure and strong emotions, that even if Charlotte abandoned him completely, nothing could have taken his newly forged identity away.
Some people criticise the notion of "being in love with love", but I think it's exactly what helps us thrive in case of heartbreak. Even if unrequited, that person has shown us a new side of ourselves, one capable of bold and strong feelings, having understood that even in face of rejection one would be grateful and let the bitter feeling slowly wash away
I remember reading the book and the couch scene struck me the most.I remember it so vividly as they both cried.The book does glorify suicide and sorrow but not to an overwhelming excess.Infact a critic said that werthers suicide ideation could easily be dispelled by the smell of pancakes which was really funny.
I am just in awe of your presentation each video is nothing but amazing.
Ah thank you! That is really kind!
on god, I am in love with this channel
I feel a bit less ashamed after watching this. Thank you n
It’s good to feel understood, but also it’s hard to delude oneself now as much as we would like
Passion in youth, stoicism as one approaches the wisdom of the golden years
Ah, perhaps a two-step process then
What if you have that stoicism from the get go? Where do you end up then in your "golden years"?
@@KinoZoomer Wise
Why not keep passion as we age? Can’t stoicism coexist with passion?
@@misskwannie Good question.
Love isn't obsession, it's a sacrifice to see the happiness in another.
Oh please. He is talking about Eros and human nature as dark as it is, go somewhere else with your curated, manufactured, perfect , no real view of love. I tell you, this sanctimonious, virtual signaling comment just irritates me.
@@sdust251977 Eros isn't love, its lust/desire/passion.
@@Sugabullets Eros is a type of love like Agape is etc. Did you miss the class?
@@sdust251977 if you're smart enough to figure that out then how could you not be smart enough to know love is synonyms for without getting offended and then ironically acting like a hypocritical victim getting all emotional over it.
😒
@@sdust251977I feel like your missing an important detail but I’m having an adhd moment and can’t formulate the thought into words
I've been in love truly only once 14 years together and still am if im honest .
We were a super nova and it burnt too fast and too hard and then exploded on itself.
I have to conclude , that at least I had real love once in a lifetime ❤
Some people never experience that joy so I'm grateful for that time in my life.
Also grateful to you for your uploads, they help the self reflection stage of life to be much more bearable.
This hit really close to home. I fell in love truly for the first time this year. The girl in question,like Charlotte, did not want the same romantic relationship I did. My world legitimately felt as if everything became more vibrant and her messages were the highlight of my day, but once I found out she didn’t seek the same thing I did, like Werther, I went through the entire spectrum of negative emotions. I simultaneously felt an intoxicated high around her, and hated my conscious for feeling so attached, despite being completely aware that there was a low chance of me ever winding up with her. Although I wouldn’t have ended my own life, what kept me from a continuous downward spiral, was the fact that I had self-love, the love of my family, and the brotherhood of my close guy friends. Coincidentally, a few of them were suffering a similar romantic situation. We laughed as we would discuss the frustrations these girls would cause us and how their words were also the most enchanting from our perceptions. I was so lucky to have friends with similar struggles whom I could confide in. Remember your bois, they’re the ones who will be there in your time of need.
“Bros before hoes” - Moon Tzu, The Art of Peace
you seriously have like no grasp of this story at all I’m sorry to say, you really need to re-read it or read it for the first time cause you’re taking all the wrong things from it.
I am horrified by the prevailing schools of thought as of late and what they say about love. The idea that love and romance are, like everything else, a social construct is just shy of evil. Thank you for fostering more intelligent inquiry of the affliction. I really need to read this book.
Why would it be evil? Of course it's a social construct. It doesn't mean we will not appreciate it, be fascinated by it, or find poetry in it.
As usual, we can have multiple things at once.
@@davidsenra2495 I don't think it is accurate or useful to say love is a social construct. That is like saying warmth is a social construct. The word is constructed, how it is expressed and understood is constructed, but the force that is love is as real as gravity. If we reduce the perception of it to something we came up with then it also becomes something we can do away with. And a world without love, without warmth, would be colder than the vacuum of space.
My friend and a married man of 8 years said to me "love is ignoring 99 traits you hate about your partner and staying for 1 trait you love about them ".(Hope I translated it well Sorry my English is getting worse because of the lack of practice).
Your English is still perfectly readable (better than some native speakers); you should put quotation marks ( "these characters" ) to quote your friend
Feeling like werther at this point.. Just when i thought being a regular viewer is too big of a commitment for me, i receive something like "another crumb of attention form Charlotte" that keeps me hooked to your channel. sounded cringe but no problem😂
Same but honestly, it comforts me a little to know and see how deeply and similarly others humans have felt to how i feel right now. It makes you feel less alone with it and hopefully you will gain a sense of comfort from that instead of chasing after people who can‘t reciprocate your love and need for companionship.
@@jessisworld2574 im so sorry if it was misleading, im not actually feeling like werther in real life. I just said it in a sarcastic way to demonstrate how much i like his videos.
Although im not in that kind of situation right now, i can totally understand how that might feel as we all are continously chasing after something. I wish everyone practised contentment, solitude and gratitude more often.I loved your reply btw, it shows how sensible you are. have a great day!
If only I had him as my philosophy professor.
Also, I adore your videos, you made me read Dostoyevsky and I have never been the same.
Ah thank you! That really made me smile
your closing words and interpretation of that story made my aromantic heart cry... in a good way
This was wonderful and very enlightening study. Me being an unempathetic stoic myself dismissed Werther's feelings as juvenile lunacy but now I understand the emotional perspective of most humnan beings that I have a difficult time relating to. Thank you unsolicited advice, your unsolicited advice is very much appreciated.
Fantastic video, touching.
Thank you! I am really glad you liked it!
Your channel is an absolute gold mine. Keep up the great work my friend!
Passion will lead you astray but love will help you find your way back.
Man, watching your videos in my spare time became a habit I'm very fond of, I've been thinking of reading this book as it's a classic by Goethe and if it's half as good as this "analysis" it might become my favourite book
You just explained the last few months of my life. 🙏😣 I don't like hurting people. I have been hurt and id never want to do that to another person
beautiful summarization of the story, great explanation! Your narrative skills are so polished I'm almost jealous!
Thank you! I am really glad you enjoyed it!
I've never been able to experience romance in the same way after finishing this particular book and listening to Wagner's Tristan und Isolde. Both works read like the coronation of decadence and ugliness. Both brilliant artists, nevertheless. As always, thank you for the great video!
Ah thank you! And Tristan is fantastic! I am still reeling from the teased-and-then-denied-cadence at the end of the love duet.
Thank you. My first exposure to W was through the opera, which I found melodramatic. Your discussion has led me to be empathetc. I had been surprised that a genius like Goethe wrote a tearjerker. But now my understanding is somewhat better. Be well.
I was really looking foward this video! That book has always peaked my interest, but knowing myself well enough, I sensibly decided not to read it when I was (way) less mature. Your take is fantastic and the recording is look better than ever. Happy was the day I joined this channel. Much respect, and Please... Please wish the steward my best!
Frankly, I think Werther never loved Charlotte - he demanded her, craved her, wanted her but the only thing he didn't even thought about was letting her be happy without him.
Love is common, humble and sacrificial, it's when wife makes husband a breakfast to work despite being sleep or when husband mows the lawn despite a headache.
What he felt was passion, not love.
Pure Eros, one might say! Though I would argue there is an element of this in most situations we call “love”
@@unsolicitedadvice9198 Oh no. Rather pure immature egocentricism. Even Eros can be tammed by unconditional love.
PS And even "dirty" Eros for that matter, as Nobokov nicely demonstrated in Lolita.
Im so glad i came across ur channel
Its such a treat listening to you before sleeping
I have never experienced it so I have always found these subjects fascinating. Love is perceived as such a common experience, yet can be quite unobtainable. I have always had to take other people's word for it and has become a subject of study, for me.
I was similar to the guy in the story, pining after someone that didnt have any intrest. I just quietly waited thinking one day they'd like me back. It took a long time for me to see how toxic selfish and overall disgusting it was of me to think of a friend like that. I no longer feel any hint of that kind of love for them. Theyre like a sister to me at this point. Having gotten to this point i cant stand watching people like that or listing to stories like that. It just reminds me of how i was before and i think that leads me to finding those kinds of people gross. Its seems so unfair to put so much value into a single person.
I would implore everyone to read the novel. I think it becomes rather clear Werther does not love Charlotte in a real way, but in an idealised way, an all or nothing kind of way, as if he read a fantasised story on love & decided that was the only way it must be true. as soon as he doesn’t get what he wants he’s ready to abandon her & nearly everything else, including his own life. Werther diminishes the lives of everyone around him for his own self interest & to wallow in self-pity. He’s a tragic case of a person that completely absorbed himself in his fantasy & ideals of what the world owed him & refused to see anything or anyone else that genuinely cared for him.
Thank you so much for making videos like these unsolicitedadvice. They are really exceptional and I love how you interpreted this novel and how you ended it on a good note which also has a meaningful message in it. Hope to see more beautiful content like this in the future. 💪🏼💪🏼
Another great video, can't wait to see where this goes
Thank you!
Just finished reading the novel a couple days ago and Ive just gained a whole new perspective on it thanks to your video. However I think it is important to take into account the phrases he mentions in discussions with Albert regarding suicide and existential questions, which I believe happen to be spread through out the whole book. By taking them into account, I think a person is prone to be more understanding towards Werther and his decision to take his life. I personally believe that he has died a happy man, but maybe that's just my false interpretation of his thoughts. Also, the figure of the man who killed his own lover which you mentioned I found really interesting. Especially the part where Werther confronts his mother, if I remember correctly, and she talks about how her son was mad etc.. I believe this character deserves an analysis and I would love to see your view on it. Sorry if there are some grammatical or phrasal mistakes, English is not my native language. Great video, as always.
It sounds more like he was just not capable of happiness. He's kind of a tragic figure, and possibly ending his life was the only way to deal with this situation: he just didn't love himself, until finally it became that he hated himself, but for no good reason. I think he needed clinical psychology. My therapist was excellent at clearing up a lot of situations in my life, that I simply had no awareness of. It's kind of like a book about a form of mental illness. There was something wrong in this person's childhood and upbringing, his relationship with his mother, and he just didn't feel good about himself. I had the same issue. A few years of therapy, and issue is cleared up, and the world becomes a sunny place.
The mad clerk and the murderer are two different men. Two other visions of Werther's possible dysfunctional futures for his passion. Werther ultimately chooses a third dysfunctional solution to his unrequited love.
Very enjoyable discussion, many thanks
Thank you!
This one is right on time and on point, hitting home like a truck!
Stoicism does not insist that you avoid suffering. It rather says to decide what price you are willing to pay for what you want to do. If you want to run a race, consider all the training, the sacrifice, etc. that it will cost you, and you may still not win. Is this worth it to you? You decide.
I didn't mean to imply that they advised we avoid suffering. I was just referring to the general Stoic idea that "the passions" are dangerous
Winning is not the prize. The preparation is. If you don't prepare, you will not reach your life's potential. Doesn't matter how little you think of your abilities, they will grow, as you push yourself. I know. I pushed myself. I didn't get a "gold medal", but I did get my self respect.
Really resonate with this video. Just had to say goodbye to someone who I had a very intense romantic attraction to (she could not return the feelings). I think I’ve had to accept this reality and learn to move on, though it ain’t the easiest thing. Recognizing the different kinds of love is so real tbh.
Something that I've spent my entire life investigating is related strongly to the idea of how Werther could have succeeded. How do we fall in love and how do we "make" people fall in love with us?
You can't. Well, unless you want to break the law outright and have them simulate whatever love is under duress. Maybe if you can trick them and imitate whatever traits and features they're looking for.
But I still think it's all a spook. Cold pragmatism is a better play.
It might be of some use to take a "karmic" angle of view. We are meeting people with whom we have some unfinished bussines to do, and our relationships are "preconditioned" in that sense. You cannot force anything which is not destined.
So pleasing the pain is so soft is the dot that at once it both wounds me and tickles my heart
Don't straddle the edge for too long or you'll never get over the coming fall.
20:50 I've been listening to a lot of philosophy recently and I almost choked because I've been becoming numb to some ideas/theories as I solidify my own understanding of things. The ending reminds me of how I lost myself in the hellish ideas of other people or events creating a depression. Therapy and other people didn't help me escape that mindset but 1 song I took the lyrics personally as a conversation to realize I have myself to live for as well as everyone around me in the present moment, not the past. Communication is key... Even to yourself
I hear you, but it never heals. The pain never goes away. It makes me hate myself for falling in love. I wish there was no "love" in the first place. It hurts, it is excruciating. No matter how much someone says, it'll get better, it doesn't. I never gets better for me.
I relished the time I was heartbroken. I wouldnt trade it for anything. It was the most excruciatingly unpleasant feeling I have ever experienced yet I never felt more alive. I couldn't sleep more than 4 hours a night, i couldnt enjoy a single meal, and found all the motivation to get in the best shape of my life, get rid of my bad habbits/indulgencies and leave the country and explore the world. I remember I looked in the mirror and asked, what would it take to forgive my self for selling my self out, and the answer came "be the best and most relentless version of your self" and so I did
@@Emin.V.Aliyev1 I really wish I could say the same some day. Regardless, it makes me happy that you were able to become someone you are proud of today.
Excellent video, great work!
New Mic setup is very crisp 🙌
And excellent delivery as usual :)
Thank you! I am hoping it will improve the sound quality and overall look of the videos
On the leaden casket, he reads, "Who chooseth me must give and hazard all he hath
Only a true lover can risk everything including his life for whom he loves
Man Shakespeare was the best
@@unsolicitedadvice9198 ya Merchant of Venice I had to study this in 9th grade 😅
Ha! I studied it for GCSE in the UK. I really enjoyed it
I LOVE YOUR VIDEOS UNSOLICITED ADVICE ❤️ 🔥
I love your new set up
Thank you! I’m experimenting with a few different ones at the moment
Romantic love is different from other types of love.❤
love the pose you strike in the thumb of these vids, never stop that
Haha! Thank you!
Thank you for the analiysis
Love is a spook. There's something else that's much more likely to bring contentment.
God spares me from that pain by refusing to let someone fall for me or the other way round, favorite son fr
This whole concept of (narcissistic) romantic love is by men for men.
Should most women trade love like this the civilization would be doomed.
I think it significant that Goethe (as much as I admire him) had a very complicated relationship to women in his real life. Seems he could not decide between unearthly phantasies and rather vulgar direct aproach.
Dont really understand your memo are u saying narcissm is something that only that men do to each other
@@OscarBroman Funny thing you interpret my bad English like this 😁
I am just commenting on a book by a man about a man's take on love as explained by a man and discussed by mostly men.
Seems to me that killing themselves if they do not get what they want and calling it "love" is rather a narcisstic men's bussines.
Loved watching your videos ❤❤
Thank you!
Love dissappears the moment you focus on it
I do not like the fact that I related so much to this video and this. I really gotta do introspection because of this.
Oh this one is going to hurt
I can deeply relate to this as when in college, i once went from wise, suave philosopher to needy, foul-mouthed, violent Incel.. after i got out of that 'state', I kept wondering how i got there since it simply wasn't Me.
This is one of the ways how Nature gets You.
You are a genius
Il rather be in a reality instead of a fantasy.
Very good analysis!
Thank you!
It's quite ironic im listening to this and i just gpt that crumb of attention
Halfway through. I was assuming the topic would not be of interest to me, but you make it compelling.
The reason I didnt think I would find it interesting is because these are riddles I have had answered (at least for myself) since I was 15.
My first girlfriend, whom I adored, up and left for college, cutting communication and leaving me behind confused, alone, and still quite in love.
I went through a series of feelings, but eventually had an epiphany; I didn't need her to love me, I only needed to love her!
If you fall in love with a character in a tv show, or a book, do you sunder yourself with grief that they will never know you? Of course not! They arent even real. So how can you love them?
Because the love is yours. It exists within you, regardless of the other. Enjoy it. The fluttering fire of passion is a fantastic fuel for writing and creativity. But it is short lived, and fickle, and exists until it doesn't. It does not live longer by being "with" someone.
I knew my wife was the right one when our love felt less like a torrent and more like a calm stream; comfortable and sustainable. We will be celebrating our 18th year together this year; exactly half of our lives, and I could not be happier.
The only thing that can cause you a great deal of pain when u lose it is only if u loved it to begin with in the first place so suffering is something u risk while u love something it is inevitable especially if its a human being u must be willing to suffer if u are willing to love
I'm going through the same thing right now💔💔💔
I really enjoy the way you present philosophy in an easily digestible format. Your content is superb. I was wondering if you have read Milan Kundera and do you plan to make videos about his work? "Unbearable lightness of being" and "Immortality" are especially interesting to me and I would like to know your takes on those. Keep doing the great work!
Thank you so much! And I have never read him but one of my friends is a massive fan and he is definitely on my list. He says there is some similarities between the themes of his novels and some Nietzschean philosophy
Oh, from California.
Just finished, and hot damn! You are so good at keeping the most hard hitting points for the end! Well done.
I am of the honest opinion that, save for cases of cognitive malfunction, tye vast majority of these torturous emotions are merely misunderstood by the person feeling them.
They seem negative and potent, so they try to fight against them, but to bury the seed only makes it sprout and grow.
We have to become better at listening and properly understanding what we are feeling; what our minds are telling us. It could be depression, anxiety, passionate longing, crushing nostalgia, or a litney of other feelings; they are all there for a reason. Not to drive you to some disasterous act in the physical world, but to understand better, and have a new perspective to be used. They must be honored, appreciated, and given their time.
Where can i find pictures from this video, and from videos before this one?
"We never love anyone. What we love is the idea we have of someone. it's our own concept - our own selves - that we love.
This is true in the whole gamut of love. in sexual love we seek our own pleasure via another body. in non-sexual love, we seek our own pleasure via our own idea.
The masturbator may be object, but in point of fact he's the perfect logical expression of the lover. He's the only one who doesn't feign and doesn't fool himself."
Boring.
I guess my love for my friends and family are only abstractions then.😅😢😅
It lasts in my experience, 15 years
Thank you ❤ I am afraid of spiraling into romantic love and not being able to return to the surface; I keep wondering the same: cut ties or try, even knowing it will cost my peace of mind? Will it be worth it, at least? Am I going to give it all and be left with nothing again?
ouch, that hurt
Bro has some real hunter eyes
Any thoughts on Lotte în Weimar, by Thomas Mann?
Sorry before I watch the rest of this I have to know: do you practice your expressions in the mirror? I haven't seen much like it.
Haha! I used to do a lot of acting so it might be that. But I also have quite exaggerated features, which helps
@@unsolicitedadvice9198 good to know, it really helps give your videos a layer of intrigue, not to take away from the content of course, stellar work.
Ah thank you! I hope the presentation adds to the engagement!
Have you ever read Anatomy of Melancholy?
I’m genuinely curious, is your vocabulary this vast? Do you use these words in conversations?
TFW Plato already got a word for "SIMP", amazing genius.
I'm gonna call every simpleton a "Werther" since negging is a pretty weak word in this dating era.
I think this is how I know I'm slowly getting older because I honestly don't understand what this comment means
@@unsolicitedadvice9198 simple to understand. He called the main guy a simp for chasing someone who already rejected him. Talk about a weirdo😊
Ah that makes sense! Thank you for the explainer. I don't know why it would not compute
New microphone, who dis? 💅
I love you
His girlfriend leaves.
Starts looking for philosophy of heartbreak 💔
Haha! I should have asked people to send this to any heartbroken friends they have
Hi, can you do an analysis on the Theory of Everything by Ken Wilber
What is its best English translation?
Omg nice guy sindrum
Holy shit this is relatable
I think most of us go through it at some point (though perhaps not quite to the same extent as Werther)
@@unsolicitedadvice9198 hopefully not to Werners extent but yeah it's painful to say the least
damn we really got philosophy evan peters before gta6
I am in this situation currently… like fuckkkkkkkkkkk why
And tmr i have to make a decision
Best of luck
How did this came out just as I realised I am as good as dead to her...?