@@gypsygypsy7185Philosophy literally means «love of wisdom» and the professor obviously has a lot of passion when he has dedicated his life to it; so why disagree with something that is correct? Your statement could also exist simultaniously with the first comment, without it needing to be wrong.
It was your lecture on Marcus Aurelius that introduced me to philosophy in a deeper sense almost ten years ago, and for that I'm eternally grateful. Thank you Professor.
Professor Sugrue's excitement is infectious with regards to his appreciation of great minds who create masterful works. Please, keep uploading these lectures. Always appreciated and fondly shared with like-minded friends.
Goethe is pretty much the embodiment of two major literary eras combined in just one person. It's said, that he is beyond comparison regarding his vocabulary. He brought forth two of the greatest German scientists in Linguistics and Geography, being the Humboldt brothers. Every of the German pupils has to memorize at least two of Goethe's poems and read Faust I. Goethe truly is one of the greatest of all time and he certainly gets too little appreciation. People are too small minded and arrogant to even getting close to comprehending the grandiosity of this man.
Hey, just wanted to thank you for putting these lectures on youtube. These have provided me with invaluable insights as well as just a great way to spend time. Truly, thanks alot. Great lecturer, passionate, insightful with a very broad base of knowledge, paired with a sunny disposition. Super cool!
"Charlotte is dull and insipid." Thinking back to my own "Werther days" in my teens and twenties, I realize that dullness and insipidness were pretty much required qualities to be the focus of my romantic attentions. After all, I didn't genuinely love these girls (whom I frequently knew next to nothing about) in any meaningful sense, but rather certain qualities in myself that I wanted to bring to life. An actual personality on their part would just have gotten in the way. My personal, very practical takeaway from "Werther": In those days, I actually might have offed myself - or considered it seriously - for unrequited love. "Werther" taught me that it's not worth it, and that it wouldn't impress anybody. I first read "Werther" at age 19, which is perfect for this book. Like "Catcher in the Rye," which is strangely similar to Goethe's early masterpiece in some respects, it is best enjoyed at a young age when these emotions are still raw and *alive*. Excellent lecture. How come my professors didn't teach like this?
I basically lived Werther. More than once actually because you know what they say about learning from history. If I didn't have drugs, well, let's just say I did.
@@pearz420 Yes, Goethe precisely tapped into a vast and largely taboo aspect of youthful male experience. It’s both timeless and infinitely repeatable. Werther is thus a „classic“ in the truest sense of the word.
She WASN'T dull or insipid, though. She was a sweet, fun, lively country girl who was loved and treasured by her family for both her thoughtfulness and her innocence.
I'm majoring in German and I have to read Goethe in the original, now we're in Faust, while also studying classicism and romanticism. It seems like a nightmare, but your lectures have really helped me a great deal! Thanks professor 😊 * I know I'm at the wrong video, but I've just finished the one you talked about Faust
Thank you Dr. Sugrue. This was a great introduction to Goethe's work. I very much enjoy the way you explain the concepts. My only minor disagreement is probably that the distinction between "exterior" and "interior" world is not as clear-cut and absolute as we think. I also think that people who believe in a higher being than themselves - say "God" - they often project into that being their own personal biases, prejudices, wants, unconscious desires and fears. We create God in our own image, from this perspective. I mention this because I'm not convinced that the character of Werther as an "egoist" and "self-obsessed" is much different from the rest of our human species. It seems most of us just project our own ego on to an "exterior" God or "supreme being" - which is perhaps selfish and self-centered of us (even if we may deny that it is). Thanks.
0:27 _The Sorrow of Young Werther_ 1774, written in 4 weeks 2:19 3:04 The Limitations of Mind So powerful it became Forbidden 🚫 4:30 Talks to himself, Clever Potential 5:33 Lives through and for his emotions 5:44 Unable to find a nitche in society Romantics rail against Convention 6:57 Nature Children Naive 7:29 Werter, completely devoted to himself 8:15 Opposite of Werter, Albert Man of Prudence, Solidity, Proportion 8:57 9:28 Charlotte, The Eternal Feminine, Passive/Timid/Inciped 10:46 Crazy for Love 💗, Solipsistic Romantic Ego, Lust 11:46 Women and Children, Vs The Enlightenment 12:46 Dislikes Major Institutions Form of 📕 ‘13:54 A Book 📖 made of Epistles/Letters 16:18 No one can talk to him. He withdraws solitude 17:18 Universal Young Love 18:07 More and more absorbed with Charlotte 19:38 DO SOMETHING - NO I CAN’T 20:24 Love of Nature & Spinoza 22:32 Becoming Insane
In a way, I am still like Werther. I remember a time when I was precisely like him, and Werther and Heathcliff were my absolute heroes. Oh, how I strive for the naivete of those years back to my soul. But it is gone, fell like autumn leaves. Omar Khayyam really was right. Youth passes, without us noticing.
I dunno, man. I don't think Charlotte was all that bad. Sure, she wasn't the most interesting female character in all of literature, but she wasn't insipid, boring, or annoying. Think about the writers she could quote from memory, the amount of thought she put into Werther's birthday gift, her devotion as the acting mother figure for her little siblings, her strong emotional reaction to Werther's recitation Ossian, etc. These aren't the traits of vapid woman.
How can you talk about 'The Sorrows of Young Werther' without talking about Samuel Richardson and his epistolary novels 'Pamela,' and, especially, 'Clarissa'? The form and "plot" are essentially taken from these novels. The overpowering emotions, self analysis and sentimentality are all there. And Goethe might have been the better man, but Shakespeare is the better Artist. And, didn't Goethe take his formulation of Nature from Shakespeare? Edit: I forgot to say how much I liked the talk.
Thank you for your awesome and sincerely passionate lectures, Dr. Sugrue. As somebody who is not born into this tradition, and whose only formal philosophy education so far are required core courses at university, all of which surround a certain 150 years old materialistic world-view that thinks the entirety of the universe is all about economic relation, your channel has been a great help for me to discover further into the Western tradition of philosophy and what it actually says, rather than the superficial interpretations of arrogant ignorance who were taught by arrogant ignorance who were taught by obviously superficial readers of these unimaginably deep texts. I have one question, though. Do you plan to record some of your more reason courses? Based on the audio and visual, I think that these lectures are filmed quite long ago, say, in the 90s or early 2000s?
...Dude got the blues so hard he wrote an entire genre of meloncholic meanderings to the wonderings of almost nowhere. What a chad. Bravo Prof, really enjoyed yer Clockwork Orange convo, You are the dude - if the dude was a scholar and a poet.
Do you ever see yourself doing more lectures like this? I would love to see your view or lectures over some more romantic work. I would definitely love something about modern philosophy.
Please pass along to him the genuine appreciation from myself, a young man who has found much direction, meaning, and purpose through the content of his lectures. Your father’s work, and the passion with which he teaches has been a great catalyst for my own growth and development in life. I hope that you are all doing as well as can be during this time.
I'm always looking for new interesting lectures on Psychology/Philosophy, please let me know if you guys have any recommendations, would be highly appreciated
I haven’t yet read SOYT but it does sound quite similar to Great Gatsby hearing how Charlotte is(sounds like Daisy Buchanan) or Werther to Gatsby, Albert to Tom Buchanan. I might just be entirely wrong as I have not yet read the former, but ones who did how true is my assumption
I don't think I could possibly disagree more with this take on the character of Werther. The lad was no narcissistic solipsist, not by a longshot. His heart overflowed with compassion: for children, for the mentally ill, for those in distress or despair, for the downtrodden generally. He argued so vehemently not just out of pride (though admittedly he was prideful), but because he wanted those faced with extreme circumstances who do desperate things to be understood and not merely dismissed as miscreants or somehow "beyond the pale" sinners. I see no evidence that he lived entirely in his head or that he thought of himself as godlike. He was arrogant at times, but it was the impetuous arrogance of youth, not the arrogance of those, like Albert, who dismissed countervailing arguments with a smirk and a roll of the eyes... Of course, the problem with Werther is that he would get overly wound up, moved as he was by a sincere desire for understanding... He was what might be diagnosed today as manic-depressive, but the fact that he had a good heart (his conscience vexed him often) and no ability to be prudent in his mindset or behavior was part of his tragedy. He simply wore himself out, over and over again. His final act was NOT, contra this speaker, an effort to show that he was superior to the world, or an effort to blaspheme the Creator, as the lecturer here maintains. In fact, his taking of the bread and wine was a sort of effort to replicate the Sacrament of Communion, not to mock it.... I also take issue with the lecturer's characterization of Lotta as insipid, timid, and lacking personality... Lotta is a lively, sweet country girl who is both thoughtful and fun. She shows herself to be the "life of the party" while still retaining an innocence and charm... It is no accident that she is so beloved of her younger siblings, who hang on her as if she were their mother. Respectfully, I think this speaker missed the mark by a wider margin in his assessments of both Werner and Lotta.
I used to think the same about my English teachers take on catcher in the rye when I was younger. Turns out I was Holden defending myself and my naive ego.
I read this book when I was 17-18 and was in love with a girl that I could not get and depressed. I liked the book as a nice literature work, but disdained Werther, because I could not stand a such weakling.
8 months later, 19.7k. I really enjoyed Michael's lectures and feel tremendous benefit, but only saw a video by chance a while ago. I know quite a lot of people like me who would be stunned that such lectures are available for free, but they just never encountered them. Most people will not search for the topics or won't click on the video because if not knowing how good the lecturer will be, many will have low expectations for the content. So it's going to depend on traditional sharing to grow, which I do think it will. It may take relatively longer, but in time I think these will be spread enough to become internet famous. Just looking at the amount of appreciative comments, it's obvious many will watch these if they knew what was there.
What a falling off was there when the Age of Enlightenment deteriorated into the Romantic era! I read somewhere that two great Romantic figures never relented (read grew up): Byron and Beethoven ... and look at what happiness they found.
Love truly IS a meeting of the neuroses ... and youth really IS wasted on the young ... and cynics surprisingly ARE sad idealists ... and those old wives' tales? They do turn out to be true. But ... we realize all this too, too late. (Quel dommage!)
Charlotte was easy to love, but if you consider marriage and having children with her you probably would reconsider. And then later on realise she was the right choice 😂
I dont like how Sugrue says this dude is a better man then him because hes really smart, perhaps smarter but not necessarily better you shouldnt judge urself based on ur intellect
Passion for philosophy and love of wisdom really shines through his eyes. Love you prof. Sugrue.
I disagree I think he has a passion for good truth and non Bias ideas so he made sure as a teacher in such a high university to do his best
❤❤❤❤
@@gypsygypsy7185Philosophy literally means «love of wisdom» and the professor obviously has a lot of passion when he has dedicated his life to it; so why disagree with something that is correct? Your statement could also exist simultaniously with the first comment, without it needing to be wrong.
Thank you, Professor Michael Sugrue, always.
RIP 🙏 ❤
It was your lecture on Marcus Aurelius that introduced me to philosophy in a deeper sense almost ten years ago, and for that I'm eternally grateful. Thank you Professor.
That's the best ever.
Professor Sugrue's excitement is infectious with regards to his appreciation of great minds who create masterful works. Please, keep uploading these lectures. Always appreciated and fondly shared with like-minded friends.
ikr he makes you feel giddy
Goethe is pretty much the embodiment of two major literary eras combined in just one person. It's said, that he is beyond comparison regarding his vocabulary. He brought forth two of the greatest German scientists in Linguistics and Geography, being the Humboldt brothers. Every of the German pupils has to memorize at least two of Goethe's poems and read Faust I. Goethe truly is one of the greatest of all time and he certainly gets too little appreciation. People are too small minded and arrogant to even getting close to comprehending the grandiosity of this man.
Hey, just wanted to thank you for putting these lectures on youtube. These have provided me with invaluable insights as well as just a great way to spend time. Truly, thanks alot. Great lecturer, passionate, insightful with a very broad base of knowledge, paired with a sunny disposition. Super cool!
"Charlotte is dull and insipid."
Thinking back to my own "Werther days" in my teens and twenties, I realize that dullness and insipidness were pretty much required qualities to be the focus of my romantic attentions. After all, I didn't genuinely love these girls (whom I frequently knew next to nothing about) in any meaningful sense, but rather certain qualities in myself that I wanted to bring to life. An actual personality on their part would just have gotten in the way.
My personal, very practical takeaway from "Werther": In those days, I actually might have offed myself - or considered it seriously - for unrequited love. "Werther" taught me that it's not worth it, and that it wouldn't impress anybody.
I first read "Werther" at age 19, which is perfect for this book. Like "Catcher in the Rye," which is strangely similar to Goethe's early masterpiece in some respects, it is best enjoyed at a young age when these emotions are still raw and *alive*.
Excellent lecture. How come my professors didn't teach like this?
Great reflections.
I basically lived Werther. More than once actually because you know what they say about learning from history. If I didn't have drugs, well, let's just say I did.
@@pearz420 Yes, Goethe precisely tapped into a vast and largely taboo aspect of youthful male experience. It’s both timeless and infinitely repeatable. Werther is thus a „classic“ in the truest sense of the word.
She WASN'T dull or insipid, though. She was a sweet, fun, lively country girl who was loved and treasured by her family for both her thoughtfulness and her innocence.
@@andynowicki4532 yeah I'm still going with slightly dull and insipid, personally.
I just watch one new video of Sugrue/Staloff in the morning, can't be a better start of day!
"But _then_ it wasn't a disease; _then_ it was just the human condition. It was a different century."
I'm majoring in German and I have to read Goethe in the original, now we're in Faust, while also studying classicism and romanticism. It seems like a nightmare, but your lectures have really helped me a great deal! Thanks professor 😊
* I know I'm at the wrong video, but I've just finished the one you talked about Faust
بالنسبة لفاوست في بالعربية ترجمة رصينة غير الترجمات الرديئة لبدوي وعناني؟
I am really looking forward to this lecture. Thanks Prof. Sugrue!
I feel a breath of life being breathed into me.
Very good! I was looking forward to this one
Thank you Dr. Sugrue. This was a great introduction to Goethe's work. I very much enjoy the way you explain the concepts. My only minor disagreement is probably that the distinction between "exterior" and "interior" world is not as clear-cut and absolute as we think. I also think that people who believe in a higher being than themselves - say "God" - they often project into that being their own personal biases, prejudices, wants, unconscious desires and fears. We create God in our own image, from this perspective. I mention this because I'm not convinced that the character of Werther as an "egoist" and "self-obsessed" is much different from the rest of our human species. It seems most of us just project our own ego on to an "exterior" God or "supreme being" - which is perhaps selfish and self-centered of us (even if we may deny that it is). Thanks.
It is such a great summery, very emotionally presented. Thank you.
Summary so buttery.
These videos are always amazing
0:27 _The Sorrow of Young Werther_ 1774, written in 4 weeks 2:19
3:04 The Limitations of Mind
So powerful it became Forbidden 🚫
4:30 Talks to himself, Clever Potential
5:33 Lives through and for his emotions
5:44 Unable to find a nitche in society
Romantics rail against Convention
6:57 Nature Children Naive
7:29 Werter, completely devoted to himself
8:15 Opposite of Werter, Albert
Man of Prudence, Solidity, Proportion
8:57
9:28 Charlotte, The Eternal Feminine, Passive/Timid/Inciped
10:46 Crazy for Love 💗, Solipsistic Romantic Ego, Lust
11:46 Women and Children, Vs The Enlightenment 12:46
Dislikes Major Institutions
Form of 📕
‘13:54 A Book 📖 made of Epistles/Letters
16:18 No one can talk to him. He withdraws solitude
17:18 Universal Young Love
18:07 More and more absorbed with Charlotte
19:38 DO SOMETHING - NO I CAN’T
20:24 Love of Nature & Spinoza
22:32 Becoming Insane
Michael has ascended to a new form in the thumbnail
In a way, I am still like Werther. I remember a time when I was precisely like him, and Werther and Heathcliff were my absolute heroes. Oh, how I strive for the naivete of those years back to my soul. But it is gone, fell like autumn leaves. Omar Khayyam really was right. Youth passes, without us noticing.
This is amazing... Thank you professor
A good read. Especially provided a context from this clip. Thanks
Incredible
I dunno, man. I don't think Charlotte was all that bad. Sure, she wasn't the most interesting female character in all of literature, but she wasn't insipid, boring, or annoying. Think about the writers she could quote from memory, the amount of thought she put into Werther's birthday gift, her devotion as the acting mother figure for her little siblings, her strong emotional reaction to Werther's recitation Ossian, etc. These aren't the traits of vapid woman.
Good to see prof. Sugrue laughing 😆 on this one
Thank You!
Would love if you could upload your lecture on Fyodor Dostoevsky from one of your ttc lecture. thanks!
That observation about the parody of The Mass!
_More Light!_
How can you talk about 'The Sorrows of Young Werther' without talking about Samuel Richardson and his epistolary novels 'Pamela,' and, especially, 'Clarissa'? The form and "plot" are essentially taken from these novels. The overpowering emotions, self analysis and sentimentality are all there. And Goethe might have been the better man, but Shakespeare is the better Artist. And, didn't Goethe take his formulation of Nature from Shakespeare?
Edit: I forgot to say how much I liked the talk.
Thank you for your awesome and sincerely passionate lectures, Dr. Sugrue. As somebody who is not born into this tradition, and whose only formal philosophy education so far are required core courses at university, all of which surround a certain 150 years old materialistic world-view that thinks the entirety of the universe is all about economic relation, your channel has been a great help for me to discover further into the Western tradition of philosophy and what it actually says, rather than the superficial interpretations of arrogant ignorance who were taught by arrogant ignorance who were taught by obviously superficial readers of these unimaginably deep texts.
I have one question, though. Do you plan to record some of your more reason courses? Based on the audio and visual, I think that these lectures are filmed quite long ago, say, in the 90s or early 2000s?
I'm turning 24 later this year. Wish me luck boyos.
I'm reading it in the original German and yes, it probably will be a couple of months.
...Dude got the blues so hard he wrote an entire genre of meloncholic meanderings to the wonderings of almost nowhere. What a chad. Bravo Prof, really enjoyed yer Clockwork Orange convo, You are the dude - if the dude was a scholar and a poet.
Gurta wrote about Wurta.
PLEASE if you have anything on Spinoza, would you be so kind as to upload it?
Do you ever see yourself doing more lectures like this? I would love to see your view or lectures over some more romantic work. I would definitely love something about modern philosophy.
I am Dr. Sugrue's daughter, he is very sick so he no longer lectures
@@tsugrue9013 I am very sorry to hear that, thank you for the reply
Please pass along to him the genuine appreciation from myself, a young man who has found much direction, meaning, and purpose through the content of his lectures. Your father’s work, and the passion with which he teaches has been a great catalyst for my own growth and development in life. I hope that you are all doing as well as can be during this time.
What is the song from the intro?
Could you kindly upload these lectures in podcast form to other platforms?
Think how Werther could have been helped by listening to the Everly Brothers? They knew young love.
And their song Bye-bye Olive. I rewrote about my lost martini olive.
Is there any good translation you can get for free ?
This is HOW TO LECTURE #intellectualvalue
Goethe was robbed of love from life
He reciprocated by robbing life from him
Professor Sugrue finds his friend comparing him to Werther and then later goes on to bash Werther left & right. 🤣
Is the internet archive version of this good
26:00
I'm always looking for new interesting lectures on Psychology/Philosophy, please let me know if you guys have any recommendations, would be highly appreciated
Prof Rick Roderick is pretty awesome. The Nietzsche & postmodern is one of my faves. Funny as hell too
I haven’t yet read SOYT but it does sound quite similar to Great Gatsby hearing how Charlotte is(sounds like Daisy Buchanan) or Werther to Gatsby, Albert to Tom Buchanan. I might just be entirely wrong as I have not yet read the former, but ones who did how true is my assumption
I don't think I could possibly disagree more with this take on the character of Werther. The lad was no narcissistic solipsist, not by a longshot. His heart overflowed with compassion: for children, for the mentally ill, for those in distress or despair, for the downtrodden generally. He argued so vehemently not just out of pride (though admittedly he was prideful), but because he wanted those faced with extreme circumstances who do desperate things to be understood and not merely dismissed as miscreants or somehow "beyond the pale" sinners. I see no evidence that he lived entirely in his head or that he thought of himself as godlike. He was arrogant at times, but it was the impetuous arrogance of youth, not the arrogance of those, like Albert, who dismissed countervailing arguments with a smirk and a roll of the eyes... Of course, the problem with Werther is that he would get overly wound up, moved as he was by a sincere desire for understanding... He was what might be diagnosed today as manic-depressive, but the fact that he had a good heart (his conscience vexed him often) and no ability to be prudent in his mindset or behavior was part of his tragedy. He simply wore himself out, over and over again. His final act was NOT, contra this speaker, an effort to show that he was superior to the world, or an effort to blaspheme the Creator, as the lecturer here maintains. In fact, his taking of the bread and wine was a sort of effort to replicate the Sacrament of Communion, not to mock it.... I also take issue with the lecturer's characterization of Lotta as insipid, timid, and lacking personality... Lotta is a lively, sweet country girl who is both thoughtful and fun. She shows herself to be the "life of the party" while still retaining an innocence and charm... It is no accident that she is so beloved of her younger siblings, who hang on her as if she were their mother. Respectfully, I think this speaker missed the mark by a wider margin in his assessments of both Werner and Lotta.
I used to think the same about my English teachers take on catcher in the rye when I was younger.
Turns out I was Holden defending myself and my naive ego.
@@davemacnicol8404 cool story
@@andynowicki4532 If English is your native language, you're quite illiterate.
I read this book when I was 17-18 and was in love with a girl that I could not get and depressed. I liked the book as a nice literature work, but disdained Werther, because I could not stand a such weakling.
5K views...more tragic than the book itself.
8 months later, 19.7k. I really enjoyed Michael's lectures and feel tremendous benefit, but only saw a video by chance a while ago. I know quite a lot of people like me who would be stunned that such lectures are available for free, but they just never encountered them. Most people will not search for the topics or won't click on the video because if not knowing how good the lecturer will be, many will have low expectations for the content. So it's going to depend on traditional sharing to grow, which I do think it will. It may take relatively longer, but in time I think these will be spread enough to become internet famous. Just looking at the amount of appreciative comments, it's obvious many will watch these if they knew what was there.
He is great at explaining shit
What a falling off was there when the Age of Enlightenment deteriorated into the Romantic era! I read somewhere that two great Romantic figures never relented (read grew up): Byron and Beethoven ... and look at what happiness they found.
2 hours?
Book 1&2 take about 4.5 hours to read.
Love truly IS a meeting of the neuroses ... and youth really IS wasted on the young ... and cynics surprisingly ARE sad idealists ... and those old wives' tales? They do turn out to be true. But ... we realize all this too, too late. (Quel dommage!)
Roommate：Mike！So cute！
Charlotte was easy to love, but if you consider marriage and having children with her you probably would reconsider. And then later on realise she was the right choice 😂
נייס!
Just gonna noice your noice there.
youtubers and social media addicts sound a lot like Wurther
Rodriguez Susan Hall Karen Garcia Robert
I dont like how Sugrue says this dude is a better man then him because hes really smart, perhaps smarter but not necessarily better you shouldnt judge urself based on ur intellect
7777
I could hardly listen to this because of his slurping and swallowing from that infernal cup! Argh!
16:52