I love this. Unique angle to training. It's almost like a funnel- the funnel is very wide in the beginning for what's he supposed to do, then the funnel tightens up.
As in the case of any behavior we are trying to teach with Negative Reinforcement, the moment in time the pressure is removed is what we are reinforcing. The challenge Ive noticed with so many people doing Force Fetch is they will continue the pressure (be it an ear pinch, toe hitch, slip lead, or e-collar) until after the handler inserts the object in the dog's mouth for them and then the dog shows a quiet mouth at which point the handler will "out the dog" and take the object away from them. In this system (and truly even in the traditional systems), the hold is SUPPOSED to be taught prior to using the pressure telling the dog to go get it. So, in other words, if you are concerned about the pressure turning off at the presentation of the bumper (what Chris demonstrates in this process) then I would say you're probably jumping the gun and attempting a step in the process before the dog is ready for it. "Fetch" is supposed to mean "go get the object." Too many people tell their dogs "Fetch" only to then shove the object in their mouth and then tell the dog to "hold" 500 times until the mouth quiets down and then they tell the dog to out. In Chris' approach its all about the preparation of pressure in the preceding steps and providing the dog with enough clarity to understand what pressure actually means to do. So in other words, your thought process is accurate. If you shut off the pressure too soon then you aren't reinforcing what you are intending. BUT, if you are having to use pressure for the dog to go get it, then bring it back to you, then quiet the mouth, then handoff....you've skipped too many steps and I would suggest to go back and chunk/isolate the individual behaviors down into smaller bite size pieces. Hopefully that touches on your concern without overloading too much information/input. Appreciate you watching as well as the encouragement!
You don’t have to have the T&T. We touch on that in the podcast episode going into more detail on the entire program. But long story short, you can mark and pay to the front. The main component to this is making sure the dog removes himself from the bumper and you’re not “taking” it from them. The T&T is convenient for that as the mark and access to the reward is behind them. It’s not required though.
I saw “wrong” during the learning process and usually followed by negative punishment. I removed myself and food from engaging at that point. I use no with positive punishment once a behavior is know.
You can use a marker word. Chris prefers to use the treat and train for the mark so the reward is always away from himself. It can help provide clarity to ensure the dog is always the one reaching to out the object in his mouth and, conversely, the dog removing his mouth from the object to go get paid behind him. If you use your marker word then the dogs attention will remain to you at the front. He advises in the episode that the treat and train isn’t required. He just prefers it. Hope that answers your question. Thanks for watching!
5 minutes, no words, and he went from barely sniffing your hand to sitting and making eye contact with his muzzle in your hand. Awesome.
I would love to find this kind of training here in Germany! So nice to see!
This is amazing. It’s so dog-centric. He’s having fun the entire time. This is the way.
Thanks for watching!
Nick, thank you so much for this great content. Hope to see more in the future! You're awesome!
Thanks for the encouragement and glad you enjoyed it!
I love this. Unique angle to training. It's almost like a funnel- the funnel is very wide in the beginning for what's he supposed to do, then the funnel tightens up.
And the funnel narrows a lot quicker than what most may anticipate! Thanks for watching.
Heck ya! Love seeing this kind of stuff.
As in the case of any behavior we are trying to teach with Negative Reinforcement, the moment in time the pressure is removed is what we are reinforcing. The challenge Ive noticed with so many people doing Force Fetch is they will continue the pressure (be it an ear pinch, toe hitch, slip lead, or e-collar) until after the handler inserts the object in the dog's mouth for them and then the dog shows a quiet mouth at which point the handler will "out the dog" and take the object away from them. In this system (and truly even in the traditional systems), the hold is SUPPOSED to be taught prior to using the pressure telling the dog to go get it. So, in other words, if you are concerned about the pressure turning off at the presentation of the bumper (what Chris demonstrates in this process) then I would say you're probably jumping the gun and attempting a step in the process before the dog is ready for it. "Fetch" is supposed to mean "go get the object." Too many people tell their dogs "Fetch" only to then shove the object in their mouth and then tell the dog to "hold" 500 times until the mouth quiets down and then they tell the dog to out. In Chris' approach its all about the preparation of pressure in the preceding steps and providing the dog with enough clarity to understand what pressure actually means to do.
So in other words, your thought process is accurate. If you shut off the pressure too soon then you aren't reinforcing what you are intending. BUT, if you are having to use pressure for the dog to go get it, then bring it back to you, then quiet the mouth, then handoff....you've skipped too many steps and I would suggest to go back and chunk/isolate the individual behaviors down into smaller bite size pieces.
Hopefully that touches on your concern without overloading too much information/input. Appreciate you watching as well as the encouragement!
Very Very interesting
Thanks for watching.
Could you do this without the treat and train? Just toss kibble?
You don’t have to have the T&T. We touch on that in the podcast episode going into more detail on the entire program. But long story short, you can mark and pay to the front. The main component to this is making sure the dog removes himself from the bumper and you’re not “taking” it from them. The T&T is convenient for that as the mark and access to the reward is behind them. It’s not required though.
How do you set a jackpot on the treat and train?
I’ve been trying to figure that out for forever
If I remember correctly, Chris said to just hold the button down and it should continue to distribute the food.
When he says ‘wrong’, is that his no reward marker? Or is he only saying it for the purpose of the video?
I saw “wrong” during the learning process and usually followed by negative punishment. I removed myself and food from engaging at that point. I use no with positive punishment once a behavior is know.
What is that training device he is using exactly? This is $&#@ awesome!!!!!
It’s called a Treat and Train
Why don't you use a marker word?
You can use a marker word. Chris prefers to use the treat and train for the mark so the reward is always away from himself. It can help provide clarity to ensure the dog is always the one reaching to out the object in his mouth and, conversely, the dog removing his mouth from the object to go get paid behind him.
If you use your marker word then the dogs attention will remain to you at the front.
He advises in the episode that the treat and train isn’t required. He just prefers it.
Hope that answers your question. Thanks for watching!