Should you upgrade to DDR5?
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- Опубліковано 9 жов 2021
- With the launch of DDR5 right around the corner... should you consider upgrading your PCs to use it?
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Correction regarding DDR4 and DDR5 compatibility. The modules are not interchangeable. The boards will be listed either DDR4 or DDR5 and some will have both DDR4 and DDR5 slots. Be sure to check what board supports what Ram before purchasing.
According to Ian from Anandtech, Intel only allows the motherboard maker to support either DDR4 or DDR5. So, none will have both DDR4 and DDR5 slots.
@@807800 Yep
@@Jayztwocents when will ddr5 become mainstream in laptops?
Shall I go ahead and get laptop running 5600u or wait for ddr5?
Hmm ima give it 3 years
DDR5 does it's own power management, DDR4 does not it relies on the MoBo, so I'm pretty sure there will not be MoBo's with both DDR4 and DDR5 slots.
Me reading the title staring at my pc and quietly whispering at my DDR3... don't you be worried
YOU should probably upgrade though lol. Specifically you.
HELL No. Wait till DDR6. That's what I'm doing as DDR3 is still fine for the games I play!
Amen brother
Me with my DDR2 : you still can rock it, right?
Upgrade every 3 upgrades of DDR 😂
This sounds like a great time to uprgade to DDR4.
Not yet. Boxing day when all the DDR4 systems are on sale because early adopters are going DDR5.
@@Lukiel666 Right. Wait until DDR4 is dirt-cheap, as people sell it off, then buy before the price goes back up due to it being "legacy" RAM.
@@benjaminoechsli1941 Yeah, time to keep an eye on prices. I've got two empty slots on my board itching for another 32gb of DDR4 3200
@@benjaminoechsli1941 Oh god yeah, I've got a couple old computers that want DDR2 and that's a pain to find last I checked. I did have luck with DDR1 though, got 4GB for like £12 at one point
@@benjaminoechsli1941 That's when I'm gonna buy all that fancy DDR4 memory with the fancy timings
I’m adopting DDR5 very quickly for a big task: My own ego.
Does Moore's law apply to your ego too, such that you will adopt DDR6 instantly too?
All these haters just mad they already bought ddr4 bruh
Isn't it more about upgrading to a new CPU than just the memory? I'm upgrading too but it's more about the 12th gen. It doesn't make sense to buy a mobo that only runs ddr4
@@GizmoMaltese I went with a mobo with ddr5. Why get the ddr4 mobo, and once benchmarks improve, lots will regret going the ddr4 route in the long run. I don’t feel like switching everything out in my case, that’s a mission.
This guy gets it
Waiting for DDR5 to mature would be my recommendation. At the beginning, speeds like DDR5-5200+ with relatively high latencies will be common. One or two years down the line, DDR5-8400+ with a total latency similar to good DDR4 will be the norm. Especially for gamers, low RAM latency is important for achieving good 1% and 0.1% lows in FPS (=consistent frametimes, no stutter). As of now memory bandwidth isn't really an issue for the majority of people (except those with APUs/iGPUs).
Amen to that.
@@danielpope3579 Have you never seen an AIDA64 memory benchmark or used a memory timing and its frequency to calculate the absolute delay in nanoseconds? Timings will be absolute dogshit in the beginning while we will be lucky to get i.e. tCL
@@danielpope3579 When DDR5 comes out it will be about the same as the best DDR4 at the time, or actually could be worse for timing if companies want to put out low cost sticks.
I'd wait one way or the other, because the entire platform will be new. If I were buying Intel I'd rather wait for Raptor Lake and if I were buying AMD (I do), I'd wait for Zen5. AMD should be on TSMC 3nm by that time and the power savings should be pretty impressive. I'm thinking a 3nm Zen CPU is going to have a TDP around 50W. And, it the platform architecture changes along with better CPUs which are going to do the most for you, not DDR4 vs. DDR5. It's kind of silly to even think of it that way.
I don't see myself upgrading my main rig, but if the next gen APU's with DDR5 might make an interesting upgrade to my streaming system if it allows for some solid 1080 gaming.
I love being on the bleeding edge of tech, but it’s hilarious how long it takes before consumer programs actually utilize any of it.
This is SO me! I managed to get an RTX 3090 early on fpr MSRP and NOW, 9 months later, Far Cry 6 with HD-Texture Pack finally uses more then 12 GB VRAM in 4K maxed out with RT on. But to be honest: the game does not really look mucher better with that textures. It is still a very fast shooter and no walking simulator, where you might look at every leaf and stuff to experience a difference in graphic quality overall. More RT-Effects though would have been nice.
Except in this case nothing has to be programmatically changed to take advantage of DDR5.
@@gizmotainment right?! I got a 3090 back in october and the only other games that's used even close to 10gb of vram were rdr2 and cyberpunk 2077
To be fair, in the case of memory, software tends to use way too much of it. So in a way, itll take advantage? This also means more chrome tabs for those web page hoarders out there.
You can’t just move how your software distributes and collects data from hardware on the fly and then have no problems with it. It takes time to utilize the new advantages and avoid now pitfalls
If DDR5 won't have the RGB lighting - it's not worth it. Everyone knows that.
First gen adopters will bear the brunt of pricing, availability, loose timings and hardware issues. Just like always. Nothing new under the sun, but that should be taken into account as well.
god bless early adopters, taking one for the team
yeah, every time a new RAM tech comes out its always more expensive with similar if not worse performance than the high end prevoius Gen,. Takes a year or so before it starts to over take. That is for PC enthusiast stuff, pleb ram is stock speeds and rubbish times anyway so its a upgrade from the start there.
I hope. In the case of GPUs, it wasn't early adopters who had to bear the brunt of pricing and availability. In fact, early adopters paid much less this time.
@@masteroak9724 I got an RRP 3080 as I bought before the price increases started but had to wait 8 months for delivery so its lose lose really. But its not really the same as a Ram version though as GPU compatibility is not really a thing like it is with RAM and with GPUs you can pretty much kill the last gen and switch 100% to the new, that and the shortages are already here so if anything this Gen will start of with insane prices.
this is why i skip RTX 2000 family and safe more money to buy 3080 out of the gate hahaha
I would suggest, for at least most people who have a system less than two years old, to allow brand new platforms (CPU, GPU, and even RAM) to mature at least one to two years before going to the latest version. I built a Ryzen 9 5950X system with 32GB 3600MHz CAS-16 RAM and a Radeon RX 6900 XT, and I won't need to upgrade for AT LEAST four years from launch of these parts. I can upgrade my current RAM to 64GB if necessary long before I need to upgrade to a system that supports DDR5 RAM.
what do you need 64 gb for? (asking genuinely, not being a smartass)
I have the same setup as you and believe me you dont need to upgrade for @ least 5 years.
@@xdman20005 VR + flightsims or video editing.
I have a z170 intel board with a 6700k processor. 4 cores, 8 threads at 4.2Ghz. now...it's nowhere near as good as your machine BUT I have had it 6 years almost now and I still don't need any upgrade. I never use all four cores. I don't need any faster than 4Ghz and the cost does not justify the expense. I want value for the money I spent when I bought it.
I have 32gig of DDR4 RAM. There is no need for me to upgrade. Again, the cost does not justify the expense.
The pricing of these will be, given current situation, absolutely insane, while performance will be either the same or lower as high-performing DDR4.
Jay: "What's a real world use case that you are excited for ddr5?"
*Me and my chrome tabs drooling*
✌️
It won't help your chrome tabs in any shape or form whatsoever. Faster ram would benefit gaming, though.
@@TheFlypaste it probably won’t have a major affect on gaming…but ddr5 is gonna be able to have capacities upwards of 64gb per module…256gb on a mainstream motherboard sounds like a whole lotta chrome tabs
Or you can use a better browser for free 😀
Probably I`m merried at your sister. It must be a family thing.
RAM speed is also important for audio engineering.
Every sample-based edit (slicing, warping, pre-processing FX, etc) are all stored in RAM.
The faster the RAM, the faster the project loads but also, the faster the edits are going to be registered to the waveform in your playlist.
The information from the DAW yo the CPU is also going to be faster, which means that in the near future, DAWs are going to be more stable at lower buffer sizes and higher samplerates.
For example, I have no issues tracking at 32 samples in my buffer at 48KHz in FL Studio, and I can even get a good bit of mixing done without worrying about buffer underruns. Usually I up the buffer to 64 samples once I'm past gain staging and the first bits of EQ, panning and leveling.
My 8700K will chug along just fine under this demand, but I'll start to get buffer underruns (and those awful stutters and crackles) with my DAW registering 100% CPU usage, despite the realworld CPU usage being closer to 20-30%.
What the DAW actually measures is how much of the buffer size was eaten up to fill each sample (48,000th of a second) with the audio in the DAW) - and this information comes from the CPU directly from the RAM.
Faster RAM will ultimately mean that the audio buffer's per-sample calculations reach the CPU faster - thus, realworld CPU usage will go up as DAW-registered CPU usage goes down until equilibrium, and no more buffer underruns will occur as a result of random buffer-usage spikes.
Full mixdowns at 32 samples will be normalized on most computers by the time DDR5 reaches the state that DDR4 has today, and this is just from RAM speed improvement alone, never mind the higher rate of megatransfers per second and IPC gains, as well as CPU improvements and DAW optimizations
Ohh damn dude didn’t know this, so if I’m playing guitar through my computer having good RAM will help ?
@@Cognitoman No, it won't. The most crucial component is the CPU, especially its fast single-core performance.(so basically the best cpu now is 13900ks) The sound card and buffer are also important (more buffer bigger the latency ,but eases CPU load) . RAM becomes vital for large orchestral arrangements(Kontakt library,Vienna philarmonic orchestra) with hundreds of tracks and samples.
Hi. I'm 3D automotive modeler and do some 3D printing as a hobby, I was using one function were I could use bump maps to create texture on the surface for printing. I had 32 g of ddr4 ram (4x8) and sometimes depending on the quality of my demands I saw this roof being reached couple of times, than I upgraded to 64 g (2x32) and now I can do this more comfortably, so YES, there are functions in 3D modeling that actually can use all that ram capacity.
I said the same. Jay seems to only think of the render button not the actual work being done before pressing it.
YEAH hey Ninja i have 64GB of ram as well and a 3D modeler and 3D print as well, yeah id like this system that would be great
Definitely agree, what CAD do you use at work?
@@Dawood4 I use autodesk Alias because I work in automotive design, but for fun at home I play with Zbrush and Blender to make figures and parts for plastic scale models, at work My workstation have 32 g of ram what is enough for what we do, but at home I like to push the boundaries of what I can do.
I dont do 3D printing but Is it highpoly mesh and does it have to be so big ,Like I create 3D models and Arch Viz and never have I reached over 24 gb Unless I am rendering on the GPU, with 10 gb gddr6x, Once I made a 3D model with a fully quad high poly mesh as a one piece that is 70 mb with alot of ornamets and carves .
3d artist here, the thing about being solely gpu dependend kinda triggered me haha. there are gpu, cpu and even hybrid rendering engines by now. the modeling itself is not even very gpu dependend. There are all kinds of workflows in the CGI department. you can have complex physics, particles or other simulations that will have high multithreaded workloads, then you have a scene with complex assets with detailed textures which will eat up your RAM and VRAM in no time and all that followed by a gpu or cpu render. I'm planning my next workstation right now and this hurt me since, turns out: I need everything at a high level for my next workstation, fml. Thanks for the heads up on DDR5, might hold out for a bit longer then
yea he was wrong about that which is shocking. considering they do so much of it.
A lot of people seem to not understand what we're doing lol
@@samljer The sheer extent to which he is wrong about RAM utilization is shocking.
@@lostxj Everyone is still learning!
not to mention accuracy disparities between GPU and CPU rendering. if you want absolute clarity and accuracy in a final render (for simulation or for purely design-oriented outputs), independent of render engine, you're invariably using CPU rendering.
Until latency vs speed testing is done I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.
especially true if you're a competitive gamer
Right, iirc don't the access times (9-9-9-24 etc.) increase with higher speeds.
Also, higher capacities will matter less and less for gamers; I can't remember if my 32GB system was ever maxed out. And average latency improves with having more modules.
Yeah, it looks like early ddr5 ram will be a rerun of early dd4; where, top end, low latency ddr3 outperformed it for gaming. I can't believe I went through the entire ddr4 cycle on the same bunch of bdie 3200 CL14 sticks. In fairness, they are running at 3800 cl15 last couple years, but still - that was a glorious year when Sammy swamped the market with cheap B-die; until Ryzen came out and price went through the roof. Crazy that I can sell the sticks I got 5 years ago for 8x the price.
With these speeds the latency won't matter much.
@@eggy6857: Depends on what you're doing. Programs that stream data from RAM to the CPU, like video encoders or 7-zip, are going to benefit the most. Programs won't see these speeds if they do a lot of random accesses (or don't try to keep the CPU cache lines filled with relevant data).
Excited to see this in the server space. I've done some irregular parallel computing and graph analytics work. Memory access times are a big deal in that setting. It'd be nice to get some of the new hardware to play with the see how much it matters!
As an overclocking hobbyist, I'm interested to see what kind of timings/subtimings these chips are capable of, and how that'll change platform-platform. CAS and RW timings effectively "doubled" between DDR3 AND DDR4, so it'll be interesting to see how that trend continues.
Can you help me over lock my pc?
Jay : “do you have a use case for ddr5 let me know.”
Me : “laughing in chrome.”
Laughs in Firefox on DDR3 :)
@@CakePrincessCelestia second laugh to that
Laugh in my 300+ modded minecraft survival pack
Good use case: I cannot close my 51 chrome tabs.
@@ShiroCh_ID that is a good point I will def use for that
DDR5 looks like it would be great for scientific simulations. You are often pushing the CPU on all cores and bound by memory speed.
I've got a client that runs metal stress simulations that needs ECC memory, so them upgrading to DDR5 would benefit them massively
@@LastKnight0727 Just responding here to say I love hearing about legit use cases that are NOT video editing.
What about video editing?
@@asdf51501 lol HURR DURR My Adobe Premiere pro software is so unoptimized
Nice to see you talk about 3D modeling. I have 2 other enginering areas that would be good: reverse engenering (rendering the scan from a laser) and CAM - toolpath calculation.
Very interesting to me since I'm on a very old platform and have just been upgrading through the years as much as possible. Been just researching and waiting for the time to jump on a new platform wagon. However, with that being said, I have to also wait for things to get a bit more mainstream since I have completely switched to Linux about 3 years ago and it has been an awesome and smooth transition still running windows games and zero MS windows drivers/update issues. The capacity increase that DDR 5 has is welcome for those of us that like to run say windows in a virtual machine, thanks for the update Jay!
I'll probably going to upgrade my RAM when switching to a new set up. Judging from my last one that's probably 9 years away and by that time DDR6 might be the new standard :D
Not gonna be worth the exorbitant price hike. Excited for three years from now when it’s affordable.
Yeah, I never go bleeding edge. Just stay a couple years behind the edge, and you'll have a great price-performance blend.
@Disguised Dv8ant There's probably gonna be an oversupply of a lot of things in three years.
At that point we can just wait for ddr6.
even then it wont be afordable as thats how long it will take for the latencys to be worth it for gamers so that will keep it expensive.
To be honest, I want to try this out with the new Rembrandt APUs that are coming out soon in Q1 2022.
Real world use case for me would be leveraging the memory for AI and ML that is non gpu dependent. Using Dask or Hovard for flows and model training. Also federated machine learning using Fate or similar. That’s a few of the use cases I personally would use them for.
Whole point of federated learning is not requiring high end compute
my goal was to hold out for DDR5 for the last couple of years, that was until the pandemic hit and I saw shortages in the computer chips department, rising inflation, and now tensions between Taiwan and China... so, I decided to just settle for DDR4 again with a new CPU and mobo set..
That's pretty much the route I'm taking ......I'm just about to build a new desktop and I'm going to stick with DDR4......Personally as long as I get 2666MHz with XMP enabled I'm happy.
@@Riley_1955 Got a rock solid 3000mhz over clock with my twin set of 8gb HyperX Fury 2666, Nothing changed apart from the clock. Not a single issue since.. Been 6 months now.
a new mobo, cpu and ram made my gtx 960 (4gb) SING.
Guess I can wait a lil longer to upgrade my VR setup
same situation.. but I'm gonna held out bit more Q1 2022
For 3d modelling/rendering although it's heavily dependent on gpu, the ram would help for simulations, ranging from fluid, to smoke to rigid body and even cloth and soft body simulations.
@CoomByeAh maybe you just grew up not knowing that what you said is just mean and unclalled
@@Corei14 probably had a bad day, been there
Blender fluid sim LOVEs memory. it also loves normal storage space when you cache the sim.
@@filanfyretracker yeah, many of my animations easily pass the 100 GB in cache but when it comes to memory I only have 32 which can't go over 2400mhz without crashing.
@@filanfyretracker Can you specify cache hardware? I'm thinking of adding faster hardware to use as scratch and checkpoint space for some CFD code I play with. That's just occasional hobby stuff, but my core nerd wants him a bunch of fast (so wide) NVMe storage.
I love these newer memory eras because the last generation memory tends to end ahead of what some of the newer modules are doing. For instance, when DDR4 came out we’re were seeing some vendors, like I think GSkill doing DDR3 modules at beyond the DDR4 2133 speeds, I believe I had some that were something like 2250MHZ, base. But some of the good overclockers were getting closer to 3000MHz out of them…that made DDR3 the most affordable option at the same performance point. Likewise when DDR3 launched? We were seeing DDR2 memory at beyond 1000MHZ like 1100MHZ, while base DDR3 speeds were starting out at 1000MHZ. I always go with the latest of the last gen. Then don’t usually plan to upgrade again until closer to mid generation of the newer memory speeds.
Jay, you’re on a roll buddy, with great videos this month 👍🏼
Another major benifit to the DDR5 RAM adaption would be APUs! Sense there main bottleneck is the RAM speed, we might see APUs reaching in the 100s of FPS in games with the added Bandwidth! Can't wait to see that tested out!
Hell yeah! I would love to see that.
DDR5 RAM APUs: a big upgrade for the future of low-powered video gaming!
The GTX 1050 has 768 cores. The Ryzen 7 5700G has 8. The GTX 1050, dead slow as it is, is 35% faster than the 5700G graphics in raw compute power. It's going to take a hell of a lot more than a memory upgrade to make an APU even equivalent to the lowest tier gaming cards.
@@patrickweaver1105 yeah maybe he meant the main bottleneck of apus other than the igpu is the ram as opposed to the cpu but idk
@@patrickweaver1105 wrong, the vega 8 has 512 stream processors, or 8 cu's.
@@patrickweaver1105 not to mention that we're switching to RDNA2 with the next generation of apu's, and the steam deck already seems faster than a gtx 1050.
If I upgrade my system I'll go the whole hog: CPU + DDR5 memory; remaining on DDR4 but using a DDR5-capable CPU doesn't make much sense to me unless the price differential is enormous. That being said, I'm still happy with my Ryzen 3000-series system.
Same here I love my ryzen build. I might aim for drr 6 ram though.
Even if the price of DD5 is comparable to DDR4 it makes sense to reuse your existing DDR4 unless your work will benefit from the better RAM.
@@shadowhound5113 what? lol
@@fred_derf if i use my current DDR4 Ram in my next build then i can't plug the old board/cpu/ram in my unRAID server or my Dad's PC,
not without buying more DDR4 Ram.
I have the highest end PC in the family (because i'm the only gamer here and everyone else just needs a facebook machine) and every time i decide to upgrade there is a hand-me-down chain reaction through 3 to 5 other Systems... all the others are still around the 2500K level, so my 7700K absolutely has to be a hand me down to the next system.
If AM5 wants DDR5 i'll give it DDR5.
How old is your Ryzen 3000 system? My Ryzen 1700 system is 4 years old 2 months.
This video was very helpful! I'll be sticking to my ddr4 set up for now although the ddr5 specs are interesting and impressive
Good video! You answered my question for benefits of video production with DDR5.
As an engineer, I can say it really depends on the software. In my office we aren’t on the latest versions of software that can take advantage of gpu acceleration. Also, most of the time Finite Element Analysis uses the CPU in order to error check and solve complex equations. So better ram should help in these scenarios. My simulation software easily eats the 32gigs of ram I have in minutes.
Maybe a DDR5 based server simulation / render farm maybe more cost effective? That of course depends on the cost of the components as with any 'tech advancement' there is always an early adopters fee.
Ansys?
anybody else just hate the whole auto-desk family of software "solutions" i have some nuanced grievances but as a whole their design ui and their functioning always has irked me
@@ydid687 I do. I kind of need to stick with them though for compatibility with my coworkers' though, as we tend to share projects back and forth. It's a pretty decent tool, just so weird to navigate.
Excited for this. I do music production, in part sample based (needs lots of and fast RAM), so this is going to be HUGE for my needs.
For work, i do 3D light based scanning. This essentially captures millions of tiny points that are held in ram until the scan is complete and processed. There are ways to work around it, but it’s relatively easy to cap out 64gb.
I just built our new pc since the scanners are getting more advanced with a higher 3D resolution. Since CAD and similar workflows wouldn’t be able to leverage multiple Cores, it’s not justifiable to build anything beyond a Ryzen 5950 w/ P5000 (limiting the ram to 128). The P5000 is a little overkill but was necessary for one of the softwares we use. DDR5 would open up some options here while still keeping the machine cost under 10k, and those speed increases would be very welcome to improve machine time.
Jay, Love your informative videos and the new space but man you need some sound deadening in there to get rid of the echo.
The biggest push for new JEDEC standards is usually the increased per-DIMM capacity/density. While not so pressing for DDR4 to 5, it was a problem with DDR3, particularly in laptops. When DDR5 releases, expect the usual growing pains of high price and high latency modules for about a year. Oh yeah, and that pesky supply chain issue...
Until a DDR5 module comes out that are tunable like Bdie dimms i will not bother
yes , these lovely Ram sticks with 4 chips of 16 GBit with slugish timings ... cant wait for the first 8gb DDR5 sticks to appear and they will be garbage.
Absolutely - wait and see for the next 12 months minimum. And I think that applies to Intel as much as it does the DDR5.
Ever played the total war series of games? Like RTS and 4X strategy gaming? Then ram and CPU/GPU bottlenecking is something you HATE!
The problem I’ve always had with DDR “upgrades” is that every iteration has had massively slower timings. Sure the chips are more dense but when you have to sacrifice timings, it’s hard to quantify it as an “upgrade”.
Exactly. DDR5 dimms will start to be an actual upgrade from top end DDR4 in about 12-18 months. When they start making tightened up models.
@@auntiepha8343 Is it fair to compare the first available DDR5 options to top end DDR4 though? In a way it is, but wouldn't it also be a valuable discussion to compare the first available DDR5 dimms to what the most popular DDR4 units are in builds at the time they launch? I have to imagine that the majority of people don't buy tight timing, fast DDR4 ram in cost saving efforts. I don't know where you'd get that data, but it would be interesting to see how initial DDR5 units perform versus middle of the road DDR4 now.
@@davidsargent2544 Well I am sure DDR5 will outperform top end DDR4 out of the box. But by how much and will it be cost effective to upgrade at launch? The point I was getting at but that I didn't communicate very well was the value to performance. Having a top end DDR4 rig and looking to be upgraded to the DDR5 platform when is the optimum time to upgrade? When would the performance actually pay off. It's always cheaper and the new tech more stable to wait a bit when new tech launches. That way you can unload your current components before they lose too much value while at the same time not paying top dollar for the new technology that probably will improve in speed and cost if you wait a year or so.
@@auntiepha8343 DDR5 outperform DDR4? I'm not so sure. "For bandwidth, other memory manufacturers have quoted that for the theoretical 38.4 GB/s that each module of DDR5-4800 can bring, they are already seeing effective numbers in the 32 GB/s range. This is above the effective 20-25 GB/s per channel that we are seeing on DDR4-3200 today." DDR5 4800 Mhz = 64 gb/s. You can hit 70 gigs with DDR4 on consumer platforms. With lower latency.
@@MrPunkassfuck I hear you but in the end. DDR5 will replace DDR4 just like DDR3, DDR2.... The question is when will it be worth it.
"Don't forget about our massive GPU card giveaway that we're doing, that's worldwide, you can find a link down in the description below"
*Looks in description*
Mmmh, okay Jay. ;)
I do eventually need to upgrade but quad channel ddr3 is still plenty of bandwidth for my needs, but this is def something worth looking forward to
Double the data rates, quadruple the capacity, quintuple the price!
With half the availability 🤣
@@shadowzedge5793 and DDR6 out in summer!
Just burning cash away!
Also quadruple the latency.
I remember getting DDR3 back in the day when DDR4 just hit the market for the exact same reason.
The only thing I'm excited about the ddr5 coming out is that I'm starting a buisness of computer repairs and the prices of used ddr3 and ddr4 will come down and I'll be able to repair more for less money :D
opposite, will go up
@@fivehigh4718 why would it go up its still being made and people want to upgrade their systems
@@user-kx8tp6es3p only a small percentage of people actually want to upgrade there entire system over memory, you need an entire new pc for it. Most people will stick with ddr4 unless they're slowing down, i doubt they are, until ddr5 isn't ridiculously expensive ... keeping ddr4 prices HIGH and Stock the same as it always been.. for awhile. There is no point to jump Ship... got the money? go for it.
Just think of what you could accomplish if you were an above average Bosnian. 😁
@@fivehigh4718 no I was talking about ddr 4 prices lowering
Thanks a lot for advice!
This will also benefit us composers as well as new audio samples tend to take up alot of memory. I have 32 gigs currently and I'm reaching that threshold pretty easy now.
I will cos I'm still on ddr3 along with a 4770k. Been holding off and resisting upgrading for a while!
Just like I got 4770K with launch of new consoles and it lasted me whole console generation with no issues.
It was stable, tested and mature paltform at the end time of DDR3 times.
I now got 11700 for 230 EUR (excl. VAT), Corsair SL RGB 3600Mhz CL18 for 70 EUR (excl. VAT) and b560 Tomahawk WiFi for 110 EUR (incld. VAT).
At the price of total 410 EUR I am now very happy with the build performance/cost, it's ca. 40% faster per core than my 4770K and got 4 more cores (8 threads).
There is alaways something newer around the corner, the question is if you are satsfied with what you have or you want to pay big extra for the best (which usually is only little better).
Decided to upgrade before new paltforms, as I decdied I want something that works and not be beta tester for DDR5, new platforms, Win11 and pay premium for being early adopter etc.
Most likely you have to get Win11 for Alder Lake which gonna have lot of quirks, new chipsets another lot of issues and since Developors not gonna abondon largest part of the market, so all games will be optimized for older platforms and new consoles.
At the same time I expect because of growing shortages in raw material and issues with production, that the DDR5 and new platforms as well new CPUs go up in price again.
It's no point just looking at performance growing, when value remains the same and you have to invest into something new that will have quirks for the first itteration.
So I think I got most value out of it and I will just upgrade when I deem the platform to give me struggles, mainly upgraded because with 4770K and 3060Ti when I enabled Nvidia Ultra Low Lataency mode for competetive games at 1080p I was getting stutter, as CPU couldn't handle it.
With new way faster CPU I have no issues with that anymore, as well got 4 more cores.
It was 11700 for 230 EUR or either 11500 for 130 EUR, decided for 2 more cores as I don't change platforms very often and in 4-5 years that 8 cores could be good investment to avoid upgrading for another 2 years, as I rather upgrade GPU and monitor more often.
I am now perfectly happy with the new performance boost I got and that's my platform upgrade for current console generation, it's not like my performacne going to get worse just cause there is something new out.
In my opinion get 10th, 11th Gen or Ryzen 5000 when they will go on sale while you can, as prices are only looking as going up.
I've got my 3770k that I've been waiting to upgrade I'm gonna try and hold out for the new amd cpus tho
@@KryssN1 yeah still holds up quite well, defo a bottleneck on occasion so will be nice to see the difference after upgrade but still running fine 4.3ghz @ 1.21v
On a 4770 non-K myself, plotting maaaaybe upgrading to like Ryzen 3600 or 5600X depending on prices at some point.
Same here. Last month, my MSI motherboard is just bricked for no reason. I am being forced to get Alder Lake, DDR5, etc. yeah very expensive ;_;
I've personally upgraded my PC with the last 3 DDR releases (2, 3, and then 4). So I'm 5 generations old on CPU now, I've only held off just for DDR5.
Thx for this tonnes of informations, good to know...
I work in feature film animation / vfx as well as realtime for video games and can 100% garuntee this will be a huge benefit in both industries how exactly we leverage the improvments depends on the exact task and the availability. This does not directly substitute everything that uses GPU memory but there are still large gains there as well with the newer technology allowing better sharing between cpu and gpu assets in memory.
wait what
ddr5 is a thing now?
Well I was excited for my new build and I’ve been waiting on DDR5 word to see if it’s worth, it’ll be for gaming and CAD work mostly so, from what you’ve shared in this video, it won’t hugely affect the performance. Good to know, I don’t want to go blowing $400 on RAM when I really don’t need to lol. Gotta re-watch the “how to not waste money when buying PC parts video” definitely worthwhile.
note on the 3D modelling part, it is the Rendering process that utilizes the GPU, other things like the actual 3D modelling process (creation of the 3D models) , simulations (especially), as well as creation of lightmaps, all utilize the CPU
There's productivity to be gained from more/faster memory for pretty much any applications. 3D modeling isn't just rendering, there's a heavy burden to be had from loading the Editor and associated textures. Same could be said for Video Editing as well.
Gaming will gain the same benefits as textures are pulled from memory as well.
I’m excited to see what DDR5 can do when it comes to making music. Capacity of ram matters a lot but so does speed when you’re working on a session with hundreds of tracks
Yes, but latency is even more important...and the early sticks will be crap for timings and latency.
Probably significant improvement, unless you're talking about making music by generating tones on the sound processing unit chip. The limiting factor there would be the frequency and such of the sound processing unit. But if you're talking about digitizing sounds and rendering a combination of sounds into a single performance, then that'd be RAM intensive and will speed up with DDR5.
stick to intruments and people who've spent years playing them...
@@bujfvjg7222 LOL some people who make music on their laptops at home still play instruments
I play guitar, but it's awfully annoying to be recording and writing some music with 20ms of latency because the computer's processing capabilities add on 13ms of latency
You just need fast cpu and gpu. Rams dont matter
Im just excited about JEDEC telling Intel that EEC is part of the spec now. Im glad that ECC isnt being artificially held from the masses anymore
It is per chip ECC rather than ECC between the CPU and RAM that is part of the base requirements for DDR5. This will protect you from single bit errors like a bit flip from cosmic rays but it will not protect you from errors between the memory controller and the DIMMs.
I wish I understood what any of this meant… you gained me at DDR5 but lost me at everything else lol
@@opus6873 There's a feature called ECC (error correcting codes) that allows RAM to correct some sporadic bit flips. Some RAM has ECC on it, some doesn't. Intel decided a long time ago that consumer-grade stuff doesn't need that, so their lower end platforms don't even support it, while their server platforms do. (iirc AMD allows it on consumer platforms, but I think there's some complications in there, but Intel is the larger player here so their actions matter more.) JEDEC (people who make the DDR specifications) decided to make ECC mandatory in DDR5, so that everyone can have a little more protection from bit flips, not just server-grade stuff. As far as I'm aware people are generally happy about this decision.
(someone please correct me if any of these details are incorrect, but I think that should be more or less the story)
Also, this is rumored to have been present for several generations now in order to keep die yields high, just now we have the ability to read back the ECC syndrome codes, and find out if our components are going bad.
@@nobodylmportant Most components you buy now already have this ECC, just now they are releasing it as part of the JEDEC standard. This isn't just for cosmic rays too, shrinking memory cells has made them less reliable, and the only way to get them to work reliably and keep yields high has been to add ECC on chip. The only difference is we can read back the ECC data so it is transparent to the customer (or memory controller). This is an innovation from flash memory that has been brought over to increase DRAM yields.
Ahhh was looking to upgrade next year. Good to know I can avoid the early DDR5 and slot in my 32GB (4x8GB) of DDR4 3200 and coast on that for a year. Hopefully there will be a quad channel option like I have with my X99 setup.
I do a bit of video editing work so this will be cool there. As for other stuff, I do mostly digital illustration in something like Photoshop or Clip Studio Paint so not photo editing but actual painting from a blank canvas. I'm honestly not 100% sure how much it will help in that regard since I wouldn't be working with any massive raw photo files or anything like that. The files can get big as the painting goes forward so maybe there it helps but I don't know otherwise.
I'll always take that overall system bump though lol
Sounds promising! Yeah, I've been holding out for DDR5 because I don't upgrade components that often. Still using a i7-6700 and 32GB of DDR4 with speeds of that era and a GTX 1060 6GB. It's really not too bad editing 8-bit video, but 10-bit is a no go without proxies.
Same boat, though I have 6700k running at 4.8 which helps somewhat.
@@jasonoutman420 Ah, the unlocked version. It's been a reliable platform but here is to hoping we see some nice options late this year or early next!
A good chunk of the work I do involves processing 3D scanned point cloud data. That uses A LOT of RAM, especially texturing and applying colour data. DDR5 would probably be beneficial for that. But I'm still gonna wait on it cause my computer is brand new.
couldn't be more ready! I've been waiting for a new system for DDR5 for a long time
DDR5 is going to be big for APUs.
In combination with AMD switching to RDNA2 on their APUs and Intel working on their Arc architecture, iGPUs will get a pretty massive performance uplift.
4:29 “It’s awesome to see Moore’s Law is still alive and well.” Yes...yes it is
as much as im into the latest and gratest new toys I plan to wait about a year or so and let things mature and develop befor i dig into the newest platform
Would really appreciate DAW and music production PC component performance being included in some of these kind of discussions. 🙏🏼
great explanation, thanks
AM5 platform is gonna be insane, I wonder if we will get some special AM4 boards with ddr5 for zen3d
@@ianvisser7899 They dont have to natively support it
@@ygdefine322 No, they have too. The memory-interface is build in hardware on the CPU.
@@ygdefine322 yes they do, these cpus have the memory controllers built in, it’s not up to the motherboard at all on what they can slap on to talk to the cpu like it was long ago
So do we know if Zen3d will support ddr5 or not?
@@tuckerhiggins4336 "So do we know if Zen3d"
If it is Zen3 or still using AM4 then no, no chance.
A note for 3D modeling, doing stress analysis on a 3d part (in my experience) eats system memory during a simulation. I've almost maxed out my 64 gigs on my work computer doing a simulation. This might be program dependant, but that's my experience regularly with Autodesk Inventor.
You should try turning down the resulution/samples
I really want 128G
I’ve had Autodesk Maya eat up 64 gigs just from caching an animation scene.
Inventor is an insane memory hog no matter what you're doing. FWIW, core speed and memory speed is actually extremely important in solid modeling. It is single threaded while it's producing the solid. My IT idiots bought some 24 core dual CPU server based machine thinking it would be great in Inventor and it was a complete pile of crap because it ran at like 2.8GHz. My 5600X absolutely destroys it for solid modeling.
Also, a lot of solid modeling programs don't play well with gaming GPUs. You need a Quadro card on them.
Nice slicks. A lovely reminder that I still have work to do on the fastback. Unlike the jump from bald tires to the lowest set of Falkens, my jumps in generations of system memory are quite the tell. When DDR was fairly refined, I overbuilt my first (Pentium 4) system with water cooling, SATA support and quickly jumped on the fastest 512MB Mushkin DDR-500 kit for overclocking headroom and it was fine, mostly. Long after I went to another cooling system, I retired that computer with a 2GB kit at the same speed and I lost my 300MHz overclock ability for that system. A passive cooled northbridge probably didn't help either.
I eventually built a Phenom II X4 system with the same parameters. Water cooling, better air flow, fast DDR3-1600 memory but I noted something different going on. The voltage was rated 1.85 but wouldn't run stable at the stock 1600 spec unless it was cranked up to 2.08v, which starts to resemble DDR2 memory. I went through with the FX upgrade and went through two other memory kits at significantly lower voltages and got much better overclocking support from that loadout.
My jump to DDR4 has not been favorable. The memory speeds and voltages are great but I'm pushing 1.42v on that memory just to keep a Ryzen 3000 system stable. Those voltages are just under the specs I used to see in DDR3. So what do I think moving forward? The initial release of DDR5 memory will have kickass speeds but the voltages are going to be temperamental like the DDR4 kits I'm using now OR they're going to be way out of spec just to run stable speeds/timings on whatever comes next. It's not worth it. I would prefer to wait towards the end of the next CPU generation and hope that those ICs have matured enough to handle my unreasonable overclocking adventures.
I'm waiting on the 5000 series Threadripper to see if we move it over to DDR5.
I do video editing, 3D rendering, Audio creation and editing, and run a ton of VMs for software engineering. So while not all of my work would benefit, some of it would so I'm ok with jumping from TR4 to TR40 if they add DDR5. For now the 2950x is doing it just fine paired with a couple of dummy THICC GPUs.
I'm just thinking since I can manage as is, if the 5000 series threadripper that got shelved isn't reinvented with DDR5, I might just wait for the first gen that does support it.
I'm still on DDR3 with my 3570k. Alder lake feels like a good time to upgrade, assuming it's not astronomically expensive. I really want my new build to be SFF too.
Make sure to have a good PSU, alder lake will need it and next Gen GPU. Also certainly need it, 750watt wil be minimum for mid range pc in the future
@@witchaponkitthaworn5998 define "next gen GPU" lol
@@EriIaz certainly Lovelace, and rDNA3 next.
@@witchaponkitthaworn5998 Absolutely not. My 850W PSU handles my 3080 Ti no sweat. Let alone a 3070 or something. 500-650W Will still be safe in the future.
@@Miguel-jm2pf THis is what I think, I bought a PSU recently (Corsair HX1000) with 10 years warranty, so I want to make sure my unit will last that 10 years at least and with the trend of hardware going more and more power hungry (not in term of efficiency) so having more coulnd't hurt and inm y case the 850 and 1000 the price differnce is just tiny.
I agree with you, if anyone just want to run 5950x + 3090 or whatever hign end system, you are still good with 850w.
This will make Apu's nothing to scoff at. Or atleast it should.
Only if you ignore the latency which is basicly going to cripple a gpu.
especially if rdna apus come out
They should have been already, they're still making the damn things with vega except for the custom steam deck chip.
imagine rdna apus can have access to 4gb of ddr5 ram as vram and has the power around gtx 1050ti - 1060
i don't care if it's slower than intel's cpus i would be proud to own one of those apus
@@chubbythanh7727 you're talking as if the next Ryzen won't be faster.
Intel are saying how much faster they are but are in DDR5. Now add the improvement of ddr5 to Ryzen, add their likely IPC improvement, add in the tweaked node they'll be on and add in their 3d stacked cache that AMD are saying is adding about 15% ALONE.
Intel's lead will be real, but it will be short.
IGPUs with DDR5 would be amazing. Since the M1 uses LPDDR4X for the gpu memory, it could be a neat match with RDNA2 igpus and if it is true that the top tier would have 12 CUs, it would be interesting.
That Legion looks good Jay. Should do a video on it
I'm still trying to get a new graphics card which has been impossible for the last 2 years! How can everyone be "sold out" for 2 years straight. Something stinks.
really? You fucking miss the pandemic that already reaching 2 year mark in few month?
Crypto = 100% demand so even if they had made the GPU’s 1000x faster it would change a thing as they will simply be bought by crypto miners
Hell there could be 100billion 3090’s and still be outta stock due to crypto miners so long as they have money the buy GPU’s as quickly as they can
Jay: contemplates if ddr5 is worth
Me: still using ddr3
I do photogrammetry 3D modelling and often use upwards of 500GB ram (64GB 3800 + 400-500GB nvme gen 4 virtual ram) when calculating the dense cloud and then the multii-billion poly models. Can't wait for DDR5.
I’m gonna be going for bandwidth related decisions, as I basically need my system to be able to shove a lot of data around, in addition to a graphics card, which will do a brutal amount of work. 1080p60 with dozens of sources to **always** put out 1080p60 is hammering my current PC quite good. And at the same time, I’m gonna need tons of bandwidth on external connections like USB at the same time. Ever tried to input 4 1080p60 video streams at the same time, let alone 5 or 6 alongside a dozen other devices, one of which being an audio interface that needs its data right on time? Currently, no consumer platform can fully meet my needs without at least slightly hurting the graphics cards performance. So for me, adding the price premium and lots of early adopter issues on top, DDR5 remains a gimmick, until the rest of the platform gets a dramatic boost as well. I’m gonna need lots of CPU bound PCIe Lanes. At least 40, if not rather 48. And yes I know I’m gonna be using them.
DDR5 will have a big impact on CAD environment too. As all of the major providers (Siemens NX, DS Solid Works) have moved on to multicore support and conversion by single core to legacy formats. This means you need fast read/write to storage. This is where we will see the shift from high clocking CPUs to high "speed" RAM. Why do CAD software need legacy format support. Well, if aint broke dont fix it. 99% of the industrial CNC is still done by 30 year old AutoCAD legacy formats.
That shit looked old and outdated 15 years ago and seems it hasn't changed since then
@@QuantumConundrumFor all its faults, it does do CNC beautiful. Company I worked for outsourced majority of sheet metal parts from a commercial laser cutting company. It was so nice to send them a directly exported CAD file...and they fed it into the machine as is. Saved like 1-2 days of conversion/setup work for them.
I feel like there's going to be a lot of ddr4 boards and/or ddr5 sticks end up dead if there's only compatibility one way. Unless there's a safety in place, but if the pinouts are completely different.. That's hard to imagine.
yeah Gigabyte better make sure that RMA infrastructure don't get taken down by ransomware again
but when 3D modelling, modifying the meshes themselves gonna take a lot of system ram on dense meshes, especially when sculpting, it's not just about rendering.
and if you use proxies then shit ton of RAM is a must have. GPU is used ONLY of you render in real time with gpu, everything else is opengl shading. GPU rendering is all fun and cool until you run out of VRAM and as ArchViz it would happen very quickly
thanks for a direct and concise explanation instead of an 8 min video article.
Man, when I'm finally able to find computer parts... My computer is going to be so awesome.
See you after 3 years .
My biggest issue with adopting DDR5 would be the latency, so far I have not been impressed with the latency of it, but I do know that it will improve given time, especially when it becomes more standard.
I compose music using orchestral libraries, more than 200g of ram makes it much easier to have a complete template without having to purge samples all the time or being picky about which ones you choose. I currently use 128g.
video editing. makes such a massive difference in the programs I use to have ddr5.
Great way to start the day. Unfortunately, computer parts are so expensive and hard to find.
get a better job so computer part are NOT expensive !!!!!!
@@danielcubillos1325 they're still expensive, even if you have a good job.
Weirdly enough zen 3 has been fairly available where I am but only the 5600x/5800x. But yeah prices and supply in general (specifically gpus), yikes.
@@danielcubillos1325 Well, if the cost of living would stop rising and the value of the dollar would stop decreasing, I would have no problem buying parts. But, cost is only part of the problem. Availability is also an issue, and no matter what your career is, will not change availability of components. The higher the demand but very low supply means higher costs. Simple economics.
@@danielcubillos1325 2k for a gpu is still 2k, bro. Not everyone is Ben Shapiro.
Rule of thumb has always been to wait at least two years after the new DDR releases. I remember building a DDR3 desktop back in 2014 when they released DDR4 and so far it has been working like a charm. I had to build a second desktop for my office using DDR4. Never been an early adopter, tbqh.
now that zen4 is out it would cool to see some difference on ddr5 dual channel vs single channel, different cache latencies etc.
this should be helpful for virtual instruments in music making programs. I should definitely upgrade!
Jay: "We're going to have a little talking head video today"
Me: "cool then I'll keep my wireless headset on while I make dinner"
Thank you for telling me up front!
What did you make for dinner?
@@RawkL0bster frozen pizza
@@everengaged9370 how was it?
@@alexmelia8873 it was frozen but i microwaved it. it wasnt cold anymore. tasted better
I’m ready for DDR6X
Nice video Jay ! but now that the cas latency are going to increase with that much speed which one is going to be the ideal set to get. I'm speaking broadly here, including the ddr5 modules that are on the way to come. thank you
I'm doing 3d modelling with Blender, comic page production with Krita on a Ryzen 5 5600X and a Radeon FirePro W5100. It's relatively cost effective and runs on less than 300W. I may upgrade to a 150W videocard, but the low power consumption is extremely nice to work with in the desert I live in. I don't think I'll be upgrading the RAM any time soon, unless I can afford a dedicated render machine.
As a photographer it has been very tempting to upgrade from 32 gb with how bad slow downs can get, but knowing ddr5 is on it's way is what's kept me from jumping for it.
Jay missed two elephants in the room. 1 - only server space really cares about quadrupling capacity. Desktop is quite happy with 32GB. Doubling bandwidth is also not a huge win on desktop. 2 - latency penalty of DDR5 over DDR4 will be massive. I anticipate double digit percentage difference in non-gpu-limited games DDR4 vs DDR5. And that will also be noticable on some desktop workloads. Maybe that will improve over time when Samsung creates a B-die successor, but at launch things will be sad
But getting high capacity with only 2 sticks instead of 4 can reduce power usage, system stability and overclocking capability. And cheaper systems usually only come with 2 RAM slots. So it is still good for consumers, as long as the high capacity sticks are not premium priced vs 2 sticks of half capacity.
Can you elaborate on latency penalty?
One of the challanges for using the newer iPhones (12&13) for video capture is the huge file sizes of the output images (4K@10bit,30fps)-Some of my recent recordings are in the 76G range. The bottleneck is getting them onto the pc to go to post-production. The good news is 10700cpu and rtx3080gpu with 48g of DDR4 renders a six minute video in about 3minuts. :-)
Could you do a video on the difference between DDR and GDDR? With the release of DDR5 there seems to be a lot of confusion
2 years ago this would have been an interesting subject. For now, I do not care for new hardware and technology because there is not a chance to invest in PCs unless something burns out in my existing unit
I would be really interested in seeing how DDR5 performs with a system limited by VRAM, and allowing it to use System RAM to compensate. There are many great graphics cards limited by VRAM that have the processing power to play newer games such as Far Cry 6, but not necessarily the memory capacity do keep up. I have a GTX 780 TI that is great at gaming, but 3gb of VRAM is very limiting with today's games.
I can feel 3GB VRAM with you, my R9 280 has the same amount, but my problem is no longer the VRAM but the driver support. It's End Of Life ... I really need an upgrade, even modified Minecraft doesn't run well anymore. I really want the new 12900k and 32GB RAM and really a 3090/80 ti.
@@nutzerlossprivataccount6586 I don’t think a 3080ti is worth it unless you’re doing 4k. I got a Zotac 3080 AMP Holo and it can run anything I’d ever want at 144fps 1440p (usually need DLSS set to quality on more recent titles)
@Aaron Moody Can you please pay attention to your choice of words, he also said that 3GB VRAM are not enough, means Brad would buy a new GPU.
@@nutzerlossprivataccount6586 nope. he means he wants to pair ddr5 with his grx780ti and use the ram as vram.
@@bonkgameing I want 4k 144hz Monitor, I currently have a not that great 1080p monitor. I will make a completely new Setup.
Use case for DDR5: Learning/Refreshing your Java knowledge when using IntelliJ.
For some reason IntelliJ likes to keep closed projects in your Ram, just in case you need to work on that hello world or 1+1 project again :3
As primarily a photo editor in photoshop and constantly working with massive 60mp and up files, this video told me I have way too little ram in my system. 🤣 Great vid Jay!