I have never been a fan of his. I hated his attitude at Red Bull and never rated him as a driver. But if Vettel helps bring back V10s I will send him a V10 sized gift basket of appreciation.
@@kristianpetrov913 Extremely dull. The only reason I respect Hamilton as a driver is because he matched up so well against the GOAT Alonso and Jenson Button.
If F1 doesn't turn to e-fuel powered V10s, another racing series surely will. F1 doesn't exist in a vacuum, and if there is a demand for roaring V10 motorsport done sustainably, someone will answer that demand.
Well I'm pretty sure this year at LeMans all cars ran on biofuels. So in a couple years with the GT3s there could be some V10 Lamborghinis racing on biofuel and whatever other GT3s use V10s. I would have said that in the future Indycar would be pretty cool to run a V10 formula, but Indycar seems to be 10 years late on all engine developments so I'm not very hopeful.
@@boi9082IndyCars current formula is starting to get old, and they are indeed quite conservative in the timelines they have. But if Honda gets onboard, and persuades Toyota to follow suit, there's a chance to get V10s in both IndyCar and Superformula. Toyota is the other engine manufacturer in the Japanese series and always rumored to join IndyCar as well. Optimistic but not out of the question.
Synthetic fuels are genuinely one of the most practical and innovative solutions. I'm a huge fan and believe that they cam keep powerful combustion engines alive
Indycar's methanol would be perfect but F1 does not follow in the foot steps of USA so they will never consider methanol. Ethanol is a bio-fuel and could work as a racing fuel.
@@PetitGarry its not just that, its the microphone placement that changes the sounds we hear on the TV, I'm pretty sure the current cars sound nice on track at the moment anyway
F1 always use an older spec V10 or V8 when they demo cars around the world for various events. People love the sound of those high revving engines. Please bring back real sounding F1 cars. These hybrid v6 cars just don't provide the same emotion that the older cars do.
Yeah, people like the sound, but as the world turns (pun intended) , almost everybody turns to electric vehicles. So, sooner rather than later, a generation grows up without the sound of loud cars. There already is a Formula E, and I'm pretty sure that within 10-15 years, F1 will be electric, or concrete plans exists/are being made to transition to electric cars. At the moment, there are several oltimer classes, like the Le Mans Classic and they can create something like that for F1 cars as a support event for F1 races. But over the years, F1 with combustion engines will disappear completely. And maybe it's hard to imagine, but in 50 years, nobody will care anymore. Just like the fact that a classic race will never attracts as much visitors as F1 or MotoGP, the top class will always be the most interesting. Loads of people claim EV's lack emotion, but once they've driven in one, they change their minds pretty quickly. Because as far as racing goes, EV's are very quick. In a few years, they should have solved the battery issue and you get electric F1 cars that can go the distance and the same speeds they do now.
This could theoretically enable the FIA to give the teams freedom to use the engine layout of their choice as long as there's a power output limit and that the cars are fully sustainable.. i think this would make f1 even more enjoyable as there would be such a big difference between each car on the grid especially sound wise (not saying that all current cars sound the same but the difference wouldn't be comparable to what we currently have)
That's essentially the fundamental of motorsport, who get the best motor get the win. Back to 90s it's not the rule get V10, it's the team find out V10 is better than V12 and V8 which they also allow to use, the rule only been there after all team have switched to V10. Same story goes to hybird system on LMP1, it's simply supreme than ICE only. I don't mind if full electronic car (or maybe hydrogen, or maybe nuclear, I don't care) a win F1 or Le-man, that's when elec or what ever gang could claim it's the future.
@@umi3017if ur suggesting full electric there is already formula e in formula world and if in an endurance racing like le mans the pitstop only limits to swap the batteries and not the entire car.
@@earlgumban That's not the point, if the electric car only play it's own race, how could we know what's the better solution for car engine? We now know electric is better on short runs as they dominated hill climb over HY and ICE in the same playground, but not yet on GP or Endurance distance.
@@umi3017 exactly! When they started racing diesel engines in racing boats, people laughed...until they demonstrated they could win. Same as in LMP1. If they'd allow different engine formula's you'd get some sort of BOP like in LMP. Not sure if that's going to work in F1. And I guess they're going to keep the V6 Hybrid anyway. They already have the engine performance numbers. They'd lobby for something like that if it was worth while.
I would love to see a return to V8/10/12 running E fuel. I think hybrid is a dead end as far as road relevance. ICE will remain relevant in performance cars only, where the visceral, aural, aspect is integral. So why not do it and have shorter cars, minus a good 150kg.
I tried to watch formula E the other day and the sound of electric motors is vile NA all day, EVs are a gimmick at best and are even worse for the environment (lithium mining/disposal)
@@nuckels188 You’re valid but don’t Shun Formula E like that mate. Sure the sound isn’t the best but it makes up for some better lighthearted racing, plus the smaller cars look fun and the overtaking possibilities are massive
@Connor, the android sent by CyberLife They kept saying this since 2015, if they're gonna ban it this soon they'll screw over their economies knowing how much of the world relies on ICE transportation to move passengers and cargo. If they want EVs to replace ICE, make them dependent on their own profits than leeching off of their ICE counterpart's sales, and it's no surprise the moment they do they fall flat on their face.
Quite possibly. Who knows it’s gotta be less expensive right? You will get people who say hell yes and then some will say nah the V6 is more quiet and I like it. I’d love V10’s but I’m not fussed anymore if we stick to V6 Hybrid I’m not complaining. But if the V10’s came back I’d be like wow I never thought we’d see the day. Plus they could be the most efficient V10’s on the planet. If anyone can do it its F1.
Let's be real, even the V6 is on borrowed time so I am just gonna say no chance and then some. Maybe in other series though, like sportscars but even then.
V10 time is gone and tbh i feel the noise coming out from these engines even though is very cool but is wasteful. Listen to the lmdh Porsche or the toyota hypercar startup. That is the sound of the future. Turbos are here to stay. I don't need v10 tbh, even if they remove the turbo and increase the hybrid assistance then that would be great too while keeping the NA V6.
Sebastian Vettel bought Nigel Mansell‘s car number five Rebuilt it. it takes sustainable fuel and showed it off at Silverstone, V10 what a beautiful sound, a Sound which is iconic to Formula One to have that sound again will be fantastic.
Hybrid is fine whether in motorsport or everyday driving as there is energy to be recuperated during braking, but not by using batteries that requires digging up half the earth to extract the rare earth metals required and definitely not fully electric power
Assuming V10s are reintroduced along with sustainable fuels, this raises another issue: Will refuelling come back along with it? V10s will obviously use more fuel than the current powertrains, and any sustainable fuel is less energy dense than regular petrol, there is no way a V10 would be able to finish a race with 110kg of biofuel, so either those cars would have to have (comparatively) gigantic fuel tanks or refuelling needs to come back. I don't think either option is that desirable. I think everyone agrees that making the cars even bigger for larger fuel tanks is not the direction the sport should go, since seemingly everyone wants to have smaller cars again. Refuelling on the other hand would not only be more dangerous, there's a reason it was discontinued to begin with, but it would heavily impact the on track action, and I don't know if it would be good or bad, but I have a feeling that it will more likely be a negative impact (although I don't have anything to back that feeling up). The engines can sound as heavenly as they want, if the racing is worse, I don't think it's worth it.
Australian Supercars (accidentally) solved the strategy issue by mandating a minimum fuel drop, i.e. how much fuel MUST be added to each car during the race. You can fuel short on the first stop to jump positions, but you then have to pay for it by fueling long on your second stop. There's no incentive to save fuel, you just go full blast. The fuel drop is set so that it's slightly more than the capacity of the tank, so you are effectively mandating two stops. (In F1 this would mean smaller tanks and therefore lighter cars.)
Refuelling is dangerous because it is done while the engine is still running. If one can sort it out, we can have refuelling back, which will make the cars lighter and much more diverse pit strategy.
I wouldn't go for refuelling just mandate how much fuel can be used and ingenuity will sort that the problem. When I first started driving you thought you were doing ok if you got 30 mpg. On a recent long run I got 72, just shows what can be done if you have to, in this case fuel cost and low emissions I would think.
@@philspencelayh5464 as thermally efficient as F1 engines can be, they won't have such mileage numbers (at best maybe around 20ish if the engine is in lean mode and the driver save fuel). 100 kg of fuel (~140 lt) for 300ish km is very efficient for a 1000hp racecar engine, while LMP1-Hybrid (not the hypercars) have 62.5 lt fuel tank capacity that can go for up to 130ish km (10 laps at Le Mans).
Could be like the old days with engine choices, Small Turbo or bigger V8s or V10s to even the playing field - 1.6 L Hybrids running Bio-Fuel and maybe a 3.5 L V10 or V8 running E-Fuel
@@turnip5465 I guess the FIA were stupid; because that is exactly what they did last time - turbos were 1.5 L and non-turbo V8s were 3L - so F1 could allow 2 types of motor again - it happened before as I just explained to the one who is rude before thinking - you could have a 1.6 L Hybrid running Bio-Fuel and maybe a 3.5 L V10 or V8 running E-Fuel with a maybe an electrical supercharger with a boost limit to get the power similar. Anything is possible but F1 should be the pinnacle of motorsport and the rules should not hold any particular type of development back.
@@skyadsAu every successful team ran turbos back then, just look at Le Mans for a more modern example, NA is inherently inefficient compared to a turbocharged engine and is prefered, a big NA engine means you weight more, have a larger package, consume more fuel etc. As for stupidity, your example was a half liter turbo and a 7 litre v10, that is a stupid example to give.
I would love to, but I don't see that ever happening, plus if F1 quits on the ICE entirely, I also quit F1, the V6T engine is already quite underwhelming as it is.
There is no reason to not have a hybrid system with the V10. There is a lot of energy that can be harvested during braking that would otherwise be wasted, so a "light" hybrid system like the KERS during the V8 era would be great.
They should bring the V10's back, there is no valid reason not to. It was the V10 cars that got me hooked as a nipper, that raw screaming power is so addictive, where are they taking it? A 1.0L V4 Turbo on Bio Fuel generating electricity to power four electric motors at the wheels like an old diesel electric locomotive perhaps? The pinnacle of Motorsport should always be about raw but controllable power, which is exactly what the V10 was.
The biggest thumbs up from me goes to you personally for the correct pronounciation of Porsche and Audi! If Formula 1 really brought back V10s, I'd re-start watching it. I stopped at the end of season 2013, when the lawnmower engines were introduced.
Wouldn't they all pick the V6 regardless then ? Hundreds of millions poured into developing the layout by all the teams and less moving parts is always better for the engineers for reliability reasons . I can't help but imagine how a hybrid 2026 V10 would sound though , bet it would be orgasmic .
Let's be realistic, there's a reason F1 fans aren't watching Formula E rabidly and it has to do with motor vs. battery operated Power Wheels "my first electric racecar". Give me sound and flame out the back through a pipe.
The best thing F1 can do to improve racing is to reduce the size of the mandatory hybrid battery because they are heavy and have rubbish energy density. Remove the MGU K and H. I’d even settle for a Turbo V8 with limited revs, anything is better than what we have now.
There are very few v10 manufacturers left, also, the FIA wouldn’t never bring the v10 back. I hope I’m wrong, the v10 is my favorite f1 engine of all time. I went to races during the v10’s era. I lost my hearing for 3 days every time, and it was worth it.
Absolutely need this. If f1 doesn't do it some breakaway series will which will over take it. For all the people saying f1 will go electric. It won't. The fia have formula e for that.
The thing is, you don't even need to ditch the hybrid. Just ditch the turbo. Naturally aspirated engines aren't that much worse in efficiency compared to turbos when under high load. My halfway realistic dream with the new biofuels always was a NA V8 hybrid revving to 20k.
They simply could keep the hybrid with a more spiced up e-fuel v6. I'm pretty sure these smart engineers can develop a e-fuel v6 with a more appealing sound, not only, but mainly by unlocking the rpm .
If we keep the V6’s don’t be surprised if 2026 ones sound better. The MGU-H (while genius) is getting removed and possibly the 15k Rev limit, so they’ll be more akin to the 80s V6.
@@Indskret I don't think the current manufacturers, especially Renault, that are betting heavily in electric powertrains, will let that happen. The compromise would be a hybrid e-fuel v6. But let's see.
What about this: the V10’s strapped to the hybrid system, yes it is heavier. But you’d have 1400-1500 bhp, instead of the 900ish bhp of the standard v10’s.
@@iplayeddsharpminor it won’t be heavier tho probably lighter since it’d go hand in hand with the whole smaller body. So it’d probably be lighter than the current cars.
Ethanol also has higher octane than regular off the pump gasoline burns cooler so much more fuel can be added to the mixture which results in big horsepower gains. I know it works wonders on forced induction cars but no idea how it does on high compression naturally aspirated
Here in Brazil we use E100 in cars since the 1970s. Now most cars are "flex fuel" and can use any mixture between E100 and full gasoline (e27 in reality). Before fuel injection was a reality here cars were built specifically for gasoline or ethanol. For camparison, in 1990 a VW 4 cylinder engine had a CR of 12,3 for ethanol and 8,7 for gasoline. And that 12,3 CR was used with carburators.The difference in torque and horsepower was huge in favor of ethanol. No one that liked sporty cars wanted gasoline.
I think it’ll be single or as an outside chance twin turbo V8 hybrids with the biofuel. Anything above a V6 will only get less road relevant as time goes on, and if F1 still cares about being road relevant in the future, they’ll probably end up back at V6’s if they switch to anything else. While I’d love to see V8’s or even V10’s, I just can’t see it happening. I didn’t watch the sport live during any of those engine formulae but I’ve heard them since I started watching and they both sound considerably better than what we have now. I’m not saying that F1 should be road relevant or even is at this point, I mean look at the Ferrari and tell me you think the bathtub sidepods will be on a new Ferrari in the future with a straight face. You cant. Back to the original point, twin or single turbo V8/V10 powered by biofuel is probably not going to happen, but I’d welcome either one.
It's clear. We need a breakaway series that abandons all principles of being "pinnacle of technology" and also unwritten rules like "DRS is needed", "sprint races are good", "10 teams is a maximum", "tracks should locate in the middle of cities" etc. A breakaway series that looks and sounds like F1 of the 90s will be 50x more popular than the current lawnmower-series.
dont forget the running ethanol you can run more boost yes you need more feul but you can make more power with ethanol i know there is less energy in it so maybe they wouold have to refeul again mid race
I might be the only person that actually enjoys the hybrid v6. I started watching F1 only last year so I’m biased in that way, but I personally love the sound and plus if you went down the v10 route there wouldn’t be any ERS which adds some video game factor to the cars, and depth to a race.
I am electrical engineer. I like everything electric and I am all in for smart grids, electrification and efficiency. I would like to have electric cars that can go 1000km, is completely silent, cost next to nothing to run and is reliable. But I still keep my grandfather's '88 Ford Sierra 1.8 with carburetor. Because I know it society fails, I can adjust carburetor and run it on moonshine until engine fails, probably membrane of fuel pump. F1 is a sport, entertainment for masses. 20 cars driving in circle for 1 hour or so. So give people something they want to watch, at least.
There is another layer to this, and it's the fans. You're probably right that manufacturers aren't going to want to invest millions developing an antiquated engine, however if the fan base for the alternative began to dwindle to a point where, keeping the hybrid engines was pointless because the marketing reach is so small they'd have to look to an alternative? - V10's - All of this is provided we as the fans said nah, we're ALL not going to watch unless there's V10's which as much as we'd like to argue we'd do, we'd probably miss it too much.
The whole point of Audi and Porsche coming in is because of the technology they will be working on will be used in there own company. They don’t care about v10’s anymore. Yeah there awesome and sound good but video makes no sense why v10’s are even a chance.
Agreed, the problem with all high revving non turbo race engines is no matter what fuel they run on they're inefficient. They literally blow fuel right out the exhaust because of the over lapping valve timing they require to make power at those high revs. The OEM's know this and won't touch them if given another choice.
The more I learn how F1 is and going to be the more personally I'd like to see technical advancements than well go back to that as being the pinnacle of motorsports definitely screams in my opinion advancements of technology and what the future brings as I know it started off a going racing but times has change since then
V10s are the way to go. Make the cars smaller (2005 sized), bring back the V10s, put them on slicks and run them on biofuels. The new VW/Porsche CEO is an eFuel supporter. This is what motorsports needs, great sounding naturally aspirated engines. There is nothing like it. Le Mans (GT cars) sounds better than F1 because of it. Bring back those screaming V10s and F1 will gain even more popularity.
I actually much preferred the first year of the V6s, being "relatively" quite it allowed the tire noises to be heard, which are far more informative of how well the driver's doing at extracting maximum speed from the car/tires, rather than lots of loud vroom vroom bang bang noises. It's something that Formula E stomps on F1 for.
I sure hope so. Would be even better to have a choice of engine layout (V8/10/12), and it could be a good way to bring motorcycle manufacturers into the sport. After all the NA F1 engines were more similar to motorbike engines.
I'm wondering if bio/synthetic fuels is better than developing hydrogen fuel cell technology? Because tech advancements in racing have a trickle down effect to commercial vehicles.
If F1 genuinely wants to keep coats down and extend engine lifespans they should be going for engine designs more in line with endurance racing. Simpler higher capacity engine reving lower and going to last a long longer. There's a reason Corvette's were untouchable with their 7 Litre V8's at LeMans to the point where they killed the American LeMans series. So much so that the FIA put in capacity restrictions to end their dominance.
Problem with electricity is still storage and a way to small grid, we can barely handle the amount of electric cars now. If bio fuels would be made in the desert on solar energy it would be a very viable way to use them. As electricity can easily be produced there but not transported (except in the way of fuel like hydrogen or bio)
They will go like oh yes we need to be relevant to everyday cars let's have 1liter inline four turbo engis that rew up to 12k rpm. Sounds like a great idea.
We shouldn't be asking whether V10s or V8s will return, but how much longer F1 will be able to use ICE engines at all. We'll eventually reach a stage 5-10 years from now where manufacturers will force them to move to all electric units as they start to become obsolete in road cars, even if before the 2039 agreement with Formula E.
@@harry4454 You just have to ask yourself why F1 engine regs have changed in the past, it's cause the parties that matter demand a change of some form. Eventually that same thing will happen that will lead to an all electric series, even if fans might not like it.
@@acegarcia3719 biofuel is gonna make electric cars useless anyway, carbon neutral fuel that doesn't involve mining lithium compared to trying to change every single vehicle to drive to only be electric.
@@harry4454 Problem is you have to ask car companies what they are mainly investing in and governments around the world who are putting deadlines in place to phaseout new gas powered car sales, and under those circumstances they'll eventually have no choice but to ditch them in F1.
The main argument mentioned against efuels is their inefficiency to produce (due to the energy loss during the process of converting electricity to chemical energy). Wouldn’t this not be a problem in the near future? The cost of generating renewable electricity is decreasing crazy fast. Surely we will eventually have a global electricity surplus 24/7, at which point the inefficiency becomes irrelevant. Even now, there are electricity surpluses at certain times of day when demand is low. Whilst people have long proposed storing surplus energy from the grid in batteries, couldn’t we instead use it to produce efuels? I.e. efuel plants only operate when there is an energy surplus, such as midnight, midday on sunny days, when it’s really windy, etc. Yes, we could capture this surplus energy more efficiently with batteries, but once you consider the cost and environmental degredation incurred over the lifecycle of batteries, I believe efuels will eventually become the superior alternative.
Maybe I'm just very lenient; but I really could not care less what engine they use; so long as the _driving_ is good. If V10s, or V8, or heck, even V4, allowed for more non-DRS competition... I'd be all for it. I can always just put a V10 audio clip on repeat in the background while watching the race anyway.
A V4 would be interesting, but I doubt Ducati would join. An In-line 4 is my personal preference, they sound awesome at high rpm and with a Turbo would be reminiscent of the old BMW days.
Well they need to regardless! I went to qualifying at Silverstone and I was gobsmacked how bad the F1 cars sound. The W Series cars sounded better FFS! There was also a V10 Williams driving around and it sounded amazing.
@@gandalf_thegrey Yeah but that's not because of the engine sounds that's because of better marketing and DTS. Better engine sounds would only increase viewership.
It would be nice to see a v10 back in f1 but I highly doubt they would even try to bring it back. If we are lucky they might bring back the v8 which is better than nothing.
Vettel single handedly bringing back V10s to F1 is the biggest achievement anyone on the grid has ever done
Ah aaaah 🤣
I have never been a fan of his. I hated his attitude at Red Bull and never rated him as a driver.
But if Vettel helps bring back V10s I will send him a V10 sized gift basket of appreciation.
@@jimrustle270 but do you like Max Verstappen? Because you can’t hate Vettel for this attitude and then like Max Verstappen.
@@jimrustle270 What is your opinion on the turbo hybrid Mercedes dominance era?
@@kristianpetrov913 Extremely dull. The only reason I respect Hamilton as a driver is because he matched up so well against the GOAT Alonso and Jenson Button.
If F1 doesn't turn to e-fuel powered V10s, another racing series surely will. F1 doesn't exist in a vacuum, and if there is a demand for roaring V10 motorsport done sustainably, someone will answer that demand.
Well I'm pretty sure this year at LeMans all cars ran on biofuels. So in a couple years with the GT3s there could be some V10 Lamborghinis racing on biofuel and whatever other GT3s use V10s. I would have said that in the future Indycar would be pretty cool to run a V10 formula, but Indycar seems to be 10 years late on all engine developments so I'm not very hopeful.
@@boi9082IndyCars current formula is starting to get old, and they are indeed quite conservative in the timelines they have. But if Honda gets onboard, and persuades Toyota to follow suit, there's a chance to get V10s in both IndyCar and Superformula. Toyota is the other engine manufacturer in the Japanese series and always rumored to join IndyCar as well. Optimistic but not out of the question.
@@MaunoKoivistoOfficial that would be heaven.
Pathway for Toyota GR to enter F1?
@@boi9082 the Audi with the same engine
WE HOPE SO
Synthetic fuels are genuinely one of the most practical and innovative solutions. I'm a huge fan and believe that they cam keep powerful combustion engines alive
I don't think it's sustainable for electric cars to exist. They just aren't better for the environment
@@MikelDog in the future they're likely going to be the only option as manufacturers and the government hide the fact
Indycar's methanol would be perfect but F1 does not follow in the foot steps of USA so they will never consider methanol. Ethanol is a bio-fuel and could work as a racing fuel.
@@encinobalboa indycar use e85 not methanol
@@encinobalboa some F1 cars in the past used methanol it's just a case of changing rules now and angering engineers
I hope they do!! V10’s would be absolutely perfect.
V8 would be a good start. They are removing the MGU-H which is the real problem, people forget how V6-turbo from 80's McLaren sounded.
@@PetitGarry yeah not as good as a v10 or v8
Ferrari could give us a flat 12 for interest.
That would be a dream come true! N/A internal combustion rules
@@PetitGarry its not just that, its the microphone placement that changes the sounds we hear on the TV, I'm pretty sure the current cars sound nice on track at the moment anyway
F1 always use an older spec V10 or V8 when they demo cars around the world for various events. People love the sound of those high revving engines. Please bring back real sounding F1 cars. These hybrid v6 cars just don't provide the same emotion that the older cars do.
Yeah, people like the sound, but as the world turns (pun intended) , almost everybody turns to electric vehicles. So, sooner rather than later, a generation grows up without the sound of loud cars. There already is a Formula E, and I'm pretty sure that within 10-15 years, F1 will be electric, or concrete plans exists/are being made to transition to electric cars.
At the moment, there are several oltimer classes, like the Le Mans Classic and they can create something like that for F1 cars as a support event for F1 races. But over the years, F1 with combustion engines will disappear completely.
And maybe it's hard to imagine, but in 50 years, nobody will care anymore. Just like the fact that a classic race will never attracts as much visitors as F1 or MotoGP, the top class will always be the most interesting. Loads of people claim EV's lack emotion, but once they've driven in one, they change their minds pretty quickly. Because as far as racing goes, EV's are very quick. In a few years, they should have solved the battery issue and you get electric F1 cars that can go the distance and the same speeds they do now.
Many run V8 era cars because easier to run
@@PhilippensTube We know, but how about a few final years of naturally aspirated glory before fully electric era?
Yeh it’s called false advertising lol
This could theoretically enable the FIA to give the teams freedom to use the engine layout of their choice as long as there's a power output limit and that the cars are fully sustainable.. i think this would make f1 even more enjoyable as there would be such a big difference between each car on the grid especially sound wise (not saying that all current cars sound the same but the difference wouldn't be comparable to what we currently have)
They would all choose a turbo v6
That's essentially the fundamental of motorsport, who get the best motor get the win.
Back to 90s it's not the rule get V10, it's the team find out V10 is better than V12 and V8 which they also allow to use, the rule only been there after all team have switched to V10.
Same story goes to hybird system on LMP1, it's simply supreme than ICE only.
I don't mind if full electronic car (or maybe hydrogen, or maybe nuclear, I don't care) a win F1 or Le-man, that's when elec or what ever gang could claim it's the future.
@@umi3017if ur suggesting full electric there is already formula e in formula world and if in an endurance racing like le mans the pitstop only limits to swap the batteries and not the entire car.
@@earlgumban That's not the point, if the electric car only play it's own race, how could we know what's the better solution for car engine? We now know electric is better on short runs as they dominated hill climb over HY and ICE in the same playground, but not yet on GP or Endurance distance.
@@umi3017 exactly! When they started racing diesel engines in racing boats, people laughed...until they demonstrated they could win. Same as in LMP1. If they'd allow different engine formula's you'd get some sort of BOP like in LMP. Not sure if that's going to work in F1. And I guess they're going to keep the V6 Hybrid anyway. They already have the engine performance numbers. They'd lobby for something like that if it was worth while.
I would love to see a return to V8/10/12 running E fuel. I think hybrid is a dead end as far as road relevance. ICE will remain relevant in performance cars only, where the visceral, aural, aspect is integral. So why not do it and have shorter cars, minus a good 150kg.
I tried to watch formula E the other day and the sound of electric motors is vile
NA all day, EVs are a gimmick at best and are even worse for the environment (lithium mining/disposal)
@@nuckels188 You’re valid but don’t Shun Formula E like that mate. Sure the sound isn’t the best but it makes up for some better lighthearted racing, plus the smaller cars look fun and the overtaking possibilities are massive
@@Indskret now if they would just hit higher top speeds and race on real circuits every now and then FE would be epic! :D
@Connor, the android sent by CyberLife Ya with electrical grids that cannot support all the EV's charging.
@Connor, the android sent by CyberLife They kept saying this since 2015, if they're gonna ban it this soon they'll screw over their economies knowing how much of the world relies on ICE transportation to move passengers and cargo.
If they want EVs to replace ICE, make them dependent on their own profits than leeching off of their ICE counterpart's sales, and it's no surprise the moment they do they fall flat on their face.
One of the most beautiful sounds is that of the v10 engine roar 😁
If V10s come back, im not gonna miss any race now
Quite possibly. Who knows it’s gotta be less expensive right? You will get people who say hell yes and then some will say nah the V6 is more quiet and I like it. I’d love V10’s but I’m not fussed anymore if we stick to V6 Hybrid I’m not complaining. But if the V10’s came back I’d be like wow I never thought we’d see the day. Plus they could be the most efficient V10’s on the planet. If anyone can do it its F1.
+ Cheaper to build, lighter, sound better.
- Not as efficient, worse fuel economy, less reliable, less OEM interest.
Let's be real, even the V6 is on borrowed time so I am just gonna say no chance and then some. Maybe in other series though, like sportscars but even then.
V10 time is gone and tbh i feel the noise coming out from these engines even though is very cool but is wasteful. Listen to the lmdh Porsche or the toyota hypercar startup. That is the sound of the future. Turbos are here to stay. I don't need v10 tbh, even if they remove the turbo and increase the hybrid assistance then that would be great too while keeping the NA V6.
Sebastian Vettel bought Nigel Mansell‘s car number five Rebuilt it. it takes sustainable fuel and showed it off at Silverstone, V10 what a beautiful sound, a Sound which is iconic to Formula One to have that sound again will be fantastic.
@@jerryldavis1823 V10 Turbo
Let the teams decide. Open it up. V6-V12. Turbo, no turbo. Let them get creative
Hybrid is fine whether in motorsport or everyday driving as there is energy to be recuperated during braking, but not by using batteries that requires digging up half the earth to extract the rare earth metals required and definitely not fully electric power
Assuming V10s are reintroduced along with sustainable fuels, this raises another issue: Will refuelling come back along with it? V10s will obviously use more fuel than the current powertrains, and any sustainable fuel is less energy dense than regular petrol, there is no way a V10 would be able to finish a race with 110kg of biofuel, so either those cars would have to have (comparatively) gigantic fuel tanks or refuelling needs to come back. I don't think either option is that desirable.
I think everyone agrees that making the cars even bigger for larger fuel tanks is not the direction the sport should go, since seemingly everyone wants to have smaller cars again. Refuelling on the other hand would not only be more dangerous, there's a reason it was discontinued to begin with, but it would heavily impact the on track action, and I don't know if it would be good or bad, but I have a feeling that it will more likely be a negative impact (although I don't have anything to back that feeling up).
The engines can sound as heavenly as they want, if the racing is worse, I don't think it's worth it.
Australian Supercars (accidentally) solved the strategy issue by mandating a minimum fuel drop, i.e. how much fuel MUST be added to each car during the race. You can fuel short on the first stop to jump positions, but you then have to pay for it by fueling long on your second stop. There's no incentive to save fuel, you just go full blast. The fuel drop is set so that it's slightly more than the capacity of the tank, so you are effectively mandating two stops. (In F1 this would mean smaller tanks and therefore lighter cars.)
Refuelling is dangerous because it is done while the engine is still running. If one can sort it out, we can have refuelling back, which will make the cars lighter and much more diverse pit strategy.
No refueling
I wouldn't go for refuelling just mandate how much fuel can be used and ingenuity will sort that the problem. When I first started driving you thought you were doing ok if you got 30 mpg. On a recent long run I got 72, just shows what can be done if you have to, in this case fuel cost and low emissions I would think.
@@philspencelayh5464 as thermally efficient as F1 engines can be, they won't have such mileage numbers (at best maybe around 20ish if the engine is in lean mode and the driver save fuel). 100 kg of fuel (~140 lt) for 300ish km is very efficient for a 1000hp racecar engine, while LMP1-Hybrid (not the hypercars) have 62.5 lt fuel tank capacity that can go for up to 130ish km (10 laps at Le Mans).
Could be like the old days with engine choices, Small Turbo or bigger V8s or V10s to even the playing field - 1.6 L Hybrids running Bio-Fuel and maybe a 3.5 L V10 or V8 running E-Fuel
guaranteed everyone but the poorest teams would run turbocharged engines
@@turnip5465 Depends on how large you allow the Non-turbo size and how small you make the turbo - eg. 500 cc turbo vs 7 litre V10.....
@@skyadsAu thats such a stupid suggestion lol
@@turnip5465 I guess the FIA were stupid; because that is exactly what they did last time - turbos were 1.5 L and non-turbo V8s were 3L - so F1 could allow 2 types of motor again - it happened before as I just explained to the one who is rude before thinking - you could have a 1.6 L Hybrid running Bio-Fuel and maybe a 3.5 L V10 or V8 running E-Fuel with a maybe an electrical supercharger with a boost limit to get the power similar. Anything is possible but F1 should be the pinnacle of motorsport and the rules should not hold any particular type of development back.
@@skyadsAu every successful team ran turbos back then, just look at Le Mans for a more modern example, NA is inherently inefficient compared to a turbocharged engine and is prefered, a big NA engine means you weight more, have a larger package, consume more fuel etc. As for stupidity, your example was a half liter turbo and a 7 litre v10, that is a stupid example to give.
A hybrid car with a turbo v10 would mean that we probably get cloose to the 2000hp 🤤
This would be the best move F1 producers could do to bring back fans that have left, and bring in ALOT more fans
I would love to, but I don't see that ever happening, plus if F1 quits on the ICE entirely, I also quit F1, the V6T engine is already quite underwhelming as it is.
There is no reason to not have a hybrid system with the V10. There is a lot of energy that can be harvested during braking that would otherwise be wasted, so a "light" hybrid system like the KERS during the V8 era would be great.
Not just Biofeuls. SYNTHETIC Fuels.
The Carbon neutral v10 would be a win win envirometely frendly and cheaper than electrecity and have
Etanol running engines can produce 10~20% more power
Hydros etanol has an octane rating north of 112
I hope it happens. V10 is the real F1
They should bring the V10's back, there is no valid reason not to. It was the V10 cars that got me hooked as a nipper, that raw screaming power is so addictive, where are they taking it? A 1.0L V4 Turbo on Bio Fuel generating electricity to power four electric motors at the wheels like an old diesel electric locomotive perhaps? The pinnacle of Motorsport should always be about raw but controllable power, which is exactly what the V10 was.
The biggest thumbs up from me goes to you personally for the correct pronounciation of Porsche and Audi!
If Formula 1 really brought back V10s, I'd re-start watching it. I stopped at the end of season 2013, when the lawnmower engines were introduced.
would open rules work in that case?
pick between V6, V8 or V10?
Wouldn't they all pick the V6 regardless then ? Hundreds of millions poured into developing the layout by all the teams and less moving parts is always better for the engineers for reliability reasons . I can't help but imagine how a hybrid 2026 V10 would sound though , bet it would be orgasmic .
Let's be realistic, there's a reason F1 fans aren't watching Formula E rabidly and it has to do with motor vs. battery operated Power Wheels "my first electric racecar". Give me sound and flame out the back through a pipe.
The best thing F1 can do to improve racing is to reduce the size of the mandatory hybrid battery because they are heavy and have rubbish energy density. Remove the MGU K and H. I’d even settle for a Turbo V8 with limited revs, anything is better than what we have now.
I agree. Electric motor is so much heavier than normal ICE.
@@adibz959 and make the cars more bigger and long
They have already said that the hybrid power will be increased.
@@the_lost_navigator7266 Well then they have already committed to a low IQ pea-brained move.
There are very few v10 manufacturers left, also, the FIA wouldn’t never bring the v10 back. I hope I’m wrong, the v10 is my favorite f1 engine of all time. I went to races during the v10’s era. I lost my hearing for 3 days every time, and it was worth it.
It would be amazing for F1 to get its trademark noise back
I'd love V10s but if not at least bring back V8's, I miss the 2000s engine noises
Just do a WEC and allow open engines and fuels (of course provided they're sustainable.
Absolutely need this. If f1 doesn't do it some breakaway series will which will over take it. For all the people saying f1 will go electric. It won't. The fia have formula e for that.
“Bring back the fucking V12”
-Seb
The thing is, you don't even need to ditch the hybrid. Just ditch the turbo. Naturally aspirated engines aren't that much worse in efficiency compared to turbos when under high load. My halfway realistic dream with the new biofuels always was a NA V8 hybrid revving to 20k.
Imagine V10 engines with features from the V6 hybrid era. Would be pretty cool to hear that hybrid with the V10
They simply could keep the hybrid with a more spiced up e-fuel v6. I'm pretty sure these smart engineers can develop a e-fuel v6 with a more appealing sound, not only, but mainly by unlocking the rpm .
If we keep the V6’s don’t be surprised if 2026 ones sound better. The MGU-H (while genius) is getting removed and possibly the 15k Rev limit, so they’ll be more akin to the 80s V6.
@@Indskret I don't think the current manufacturers, especially Renault, that are betting heavily in electric powertrains, will let that happen. The compromise would be a hybrid e-fuel v6. But let's see.
What about this: the V10’s strapped to the hybrid system, yes it is heavier. But you’d have 1400-1500 bhp, instead of the 900ish bhp of the standard v10’s.
The last thing F1 cars need is more weight
That's a shit idea, 1400-1500 is way too muh bhp. And f1 cars should be light and nimble
@@iplayeddsharpminor it won’t be heavier tho probably lighter since it’d go hand in hand with the whole smaller body. So it’d probably be lighter than the current cars.
Okay 1400bhp will give you straight line speed,
What about corners?
You need to look at the ratio between power and weight
@@Saad-yk8qp thats where the whole new weight reduction stuff of 2026 comes in mate.
If some other racing series (Are You Listening IndyCar) would bring a V10 or V8 engine with a Hybrid system
I'm all in
Ethanol also has higher octane than regular off the pump gasoline burns cooler so much more fuel can be added to the mixture which results in big horsepower gains. I know it works wonders on forced induction cars but no idea how it does on high compression naturally aspirated
Here in Brazil we use E100 in cars since the 1970s. Now most cars are "flex fuel" and can use any mixture between E100 and full gasoline (e27 in reality). Before fuel injection was a reality here cars were built specifically for gasoline or ethanol. For camparison, in 1990 a VW 4 cylinder engine had a CR of 12,3 for ethanol and 8,7 for gasoline. And that 12,3 CR was used with carburators.The difference in torque and horsepower was huge in favor of ethanol. No one that liked sporty cars wanted gasoline.
Why not let teams decide what engines to use
I think it’ll be single or as an outside chance twin turbo V8 hybrids with the biofuel. Anything above a V6 will only get less road relevant as time goes on, and if F1 still cares about being road relevant in the future, they’ll probably end up back at V6’s if they switch to anything else. While I’d love to see V8’s or even V10’s, I just can’t see it happening. I didn’t watch the sport live during any of those engine formulae but I’ve heard them since I started watching and they both sound considerably better than what we have now. I’m not saying that F1 should be road relevant or even is at this point, I mean look at the Ferrari and tell me you think the bathtub sidepods will be on a new Ferrari in the future with a straight face. You cant. Back to the original point, twin or single turbo V8/V10 powered by biofuel is probably not going to happen, but I’d welcome either one.
@Ching Chong
1.6L
It's not coming back and that's that. This year showed new aerodynamics are whats important for racing.
video deserves a like for the V10 noise. Thank you
An E-fuel based v10 era, with smaller and lighter cars would be a dream come true
It's clear. We need a breakaway series that abandons all principles of being "pinnacle of technology" and also unwritten rules like "DRS is needed", "sprint races are good", "10 teams is a maximum", "tracks should locate in the middle of cities" etc. A breakaway series that looks and sounds like F1 of the 90s will be 50x more popular than the current lawnmower-series.
Boss GP exists mate
@@Indskret No coverage, unknown amateur drivers, small grid. Not really a breakaway series.
Why not run V10 hybrids? That would be awesome super sound with insane power
dont forget the running ethanol you can run more boost yes you need more feul but you can make more power with ethanol i know there is less energy in it so maybe they wouold have to refeul again mid race
I might be the only person that actually enjoys the hybrid v6. I started watching F1 only last year so I’m biased in that way, but I personally love the sound and plus if you went down the v10 route there wouldn’t be any ERS which adds some video game factor to the cars, and depth to a race.
Will be absolutely, exhaustively brilliant and happiness for true fans of motorsport, if yes.
I am electrical engineer. I like everything electric and I am all in for smart grids, electrification and efficiency.
I would like to have electric cars that can go 1000km, is completely silent, cost next to nothing to run and is reliable.
But I still keep my grandfather's '88 Ford Sierra 1.8 with carburetor. Because I know it society fails, I can adjust carburetor and run it on moonshine until engine fails, probably membrane of fuel pump.
F1 is a sport, entertainment for masses. 20 cars driving in circle for 1 hour or so. So give people something they want to watch, at least.
There is another layer to this, and it's the fans. You're probably right that manufacturers aren't going to want to invest millions developing an antiquated engine, however if the fan base for the alternative began to dwindle to a point where, keeping the hybrid engines was pointless because the marketing reach is so small they'd have to look to an alternative? - V10's - All of this is provided we as the fans said nah, we're ALL not going to watch unless there's V10's which as much as we'd like to argue we'd do, we'd probably miss it too much.
Biofuel V10 Hybrid with Graphene to make it lighter would be great
No, no hybrid, too heavy!
you forgot to mention nuclear power as a source for e-fuel electricity.
I would love to see and hear the V 10 and V12s of the past
The whole point of Audi and Porsche coming in is because of the technology they will be working on will be used in there own company. They don’t care about v10’s anymore. Yeah there awesome and sound good but video makes no sense why v10’s are even a chance.
Agreed, the problem with all high revving non turbo race engines is no matter what fuel they run on they're inefficient. They literally blow fuel right out the exhaust because of the over lapping valve timing they require to make power at those high revs. The OEM's know this and won't touch them if given another choice.
@@johnjones928 I didn’t know that, that makes sense. That’s a good add. Explains why they lock these cars in at 12,500 I think.
@@devon2677 Actually they're capped at 15,000 RPM, but with the fuel flow restrictions and mileage requirements no one wants to turn them that fast.
what I would like to know is if Biofuels will have a different sound than normal fuels
The biofuel Williams that Vettel ran sounded great
The more I learn how F1 is and going to be the more personally I'd like to see technical advancements than well go back to that as being the pinnacle of motorsports definitely screams in my opinion advancements of technology and what the future brings as I know it started off a going racing but times has change since then
V10s are the way to go. Make the cars smaller (2005 sized), bring back the V10s, put them on slicks and run them on biofuels. The new VW/Porsche CEO is an eFuel supporter. This is what motorsports needs, great sounding naturally aspirated engines. There is nothing like it. Le Mans (GT cars) sounds better than F1 because of it. Bring back those screaming V10s and F1 will gain even more popularity.
I actually much preferred the first year of the V6s, being "relatively" quite it allowed the tire noises to be heard, which are far more informative of how well the driver's doing at extracting maximum speed from the car/tires, rather than lots of loud vroom vroom bang bang noises.
It's something that Formula E stomps on F1 for.
V6 hybrids have no soul.
Bring the 3.5l regulament, with multiple configuration choice, like 90's.
YES!
Why not an hybrid V10?
I sure hope so. Would be even better to have a choice of engine layout (V8/10/12), and it could be a good way to bring motorcycle manufacturers into the sport. After all the NA F1 engines were more similar to motorbike engines.
we can all use them in our internal combustion engines my close friend is testing them as we speak and its very promising .
I'm wondering if bio/synthetic fuels is better than developing hydrogen fuel cell technology? Because tech advancements in racing have a trickle down effect to commercial vehicles.
Could Biofuels Bring Back V10 Engines to F1?
Yes
Normal fuels too but it ain't gonna happen
Take the fancy MGU-H MGU-K and battery packs and throw them in the bin!
I think it will THv6 but the displacement or the requirement will be differnt, it could also be an NA engine with the hybrid part like the old kers.
I doubt it.
Sadly it will be difficult to raise volumes again. Due to stricter noise pollution policies.
If F1 genuinely wants to keep coats down and extend engine lifespans they should be going for engine designs more in line with endurance racing. Simpler higher capacity engine reving lower and going to last a long longer. There's a reason Corvette's were untouchable with their 7 Litre V8's at LeMans to the point where they killed the American LeMans series. So much so that the FIA put in capacity restrictions to end their dominance.
With less displacement maybe?
Vettel: Bring back the v12s
FIA: We can't do that
Vettel: Aight bet.
Problem with electricity is still storage and a way to small grid, we can barely handle the amount of electric cars now. If bio fuels would be made in the desert on solar energy it would be a very viable way to use them. As electricity can easily be produced there but not transported (except in the way of fuel like hydrogen or bio)
of course! it's a MUST.. it's NEEDED!
Bring back f******* V10! That’s what a real F1 fan wants… please!?
They will go like oh yes we need to be relevant to everyday cars let's have 1liter inline four turbo engis that rew up to 12k rpm. Sounds like a great idea.
I’m sure we can get to a point where we can have v10s as fast and efficient to the v6s
JBL... you are the man!!!
Can we not have the best of both worlds? V10 or even V8 hybrids?
The problem with the V10s is they need A LOT of fuel 😢😢😢😢 I’m not convinced it’s sustainable…
We shouldn't be asking whether V10s or V8s will return, but how much longer F1 will be able to use ICE engines at all. We'll eventually reach a stage 5-10 years from now where manufacturers will force them to move to all electric units as they start to become obsolete in road cars, even if before the 2039 agreement with Formula E.
F1 isn't FE and manufacturers don't own the sport. They'll quit like manufacturers have done since f1 started
@@harry4454 You just have to ask yourself why F1 engine regs have changed in the past, it's cause the parties that matter demand a change of some form. Eventually that same thing will happen that will lead to an all electric series, even if fans might not like it.
@@acegarcia3719 biofuel is gonna make electric cars useless anyway, carbon neutral fuel that doesn't involve mining lithium compared to trying to change every single vehicle to drive to only be electric.
@@harry4454 Problem is you have to ask car companies what they are mainly investing in and governments around the world who are putting deadlines in place to phaseout new gas powered car sales, and under those circumstances they'll eventually have no choice but to ditch them in F1.
You know what’s wild, my mustang runs on e85….so my v8 muscle car is more friendly to the environment than Toyota Camry
I would love F1 so much more if they had higj revving loud engines. The tech with hybrids is cool, but they lack passion now.
The main argument mentioned against efuels is their inefficiency to produce (due to the energy loss during the process of converting electricity to chemical energy).
Wouldn’t this not be a problem in the near future? The cost of generating renewable electricity is decreasing crazy fast. Surely we will eventually have a global electricity surplus 24/7, at which point the inefficiency becomes irrelevant.
Even now, there are electricity surpluses at certain times of day when demand is low. Whilst people have long proposed storing surplus energy from the grid in batteries, couldn’t we instead use it to produce efuels? I.e. efuel plants only operate when there is an energy surplus, such as midnight, midday on sunny days, when it’s really windy, etc.
Yes, we could capture this surplus energy more efficiently with batteries, but once you consider the cost and environmental degredation incurred over the lifecycle of batteries, I believe efuels will eventually become the superior alternative.
Agreed
Maybe I'm just very lenient; but I really could not care less what engine they use; so long as the _driving_ is good. If V10s, or V8, or heck, even V4, allowed for more non-DRS competition... I'd be all for it. I can always just put a V10 audio clip on repeat in the background while watching the race anyway.
A V4 would be interesting, but I doubt Ducati would join. An In-line 4 is my personal preference, they sound awesome at high rpm and with a Turbo would be reminiscent of the old BMW days.
I hope they bring back the v10's even the v12's... it's better when the cars are fast and light
Yeah, the V10 is godly with that sound
They should go back to giving the teams and option b ur limit the power output
Well they need to regardless! I went to qualifying at Silverstone and I was gobsmacked how bad the F1 cars sound. The W Series cars sounded better FFS! There was also a V10 Williams driving around and it sounded amazing.
But surely the incredible sounds of V10's could improve Formula One's image? V10's simply grab more attention from potential viewers than V6's do.
F1 never had more fans than in the Turbo Hybrid Era.
@@gandalf_thegrey Yeah but that's not because of the engine sounds that's because of better marketing and DTS. Better engine sounds would only increase viewership.
N/A V10's with Synthetic Fuels or Hybrid V10's w/o MGU-H is good enough for me!
It would be nice to see a v10 back in f1 but I highly doubt they would even try to bring it back. If we are lucky they might bring back the v8 which is better than nothing.
crazy idea guys:
how about v10 hybrids?
at first I always thought bringing v10s back would be cool but i dont really like the Idea of F1 cars getting even bigger
no batteries
V10 weight: 90kg
V6T weight: 145kg (20kg battery)
@@fjandro9646 bigger in size n length i didnt mean weight
How about V10 Hybrids?
How about they just use gas v10s. The amount of fuel f1 cars use is negligible anyways, especially compared to the transportation from track to track.
I really didn't know that Orlen was a fuel company, it's Polish and mostly owned by the government. Guess who's the sponsor of?
If there is a god he will make this happen.
once they can bring the v10 back they should shorten the max overall length and width to match the early 2000s cars size
So a longer engine, but still make a shorter car with all of the modern safety requirements?
After bringing back v10 theu should focus on making the cars smaller...
The fuel the cars burn on a race week is literally nothing compared to transporting everything else across oceans back and forth all season