@@grantandre79 That was just Mike being a nerd, and taking advantage of the free goodies. I wasn't bothered by the choice to go for movies, but it is kinda funny to see how much we differ but still agree on some things, like i'm born in 1983, so i got a bit of the tail from the original trilogy, for me the Star Wars prequels were bad, but Darth Maul was pretty cool and underused. Shrek is okay, still kinda funny that it's a Canadian doing the Scottish accent, but he does it well (i guess, i'm not Scottish). But yeah, cool plates, i actually printed those as well on my previous job (2017), but they were more game related, lots of Witcher III concept art from the official artists, but we usually put epoxy on them, which would probably make them too heavy for the magnet. Just in case, don't hang them on the ceiling or above your bed/head, or stick some extra magnets on them, i'd hate to think what happens if they come loose.
The V10 era in Formula 1 was by far the best. That sound was so exhilarating. To hear them screaming down the front straight just made the hair on your arms stand up. Unfortunately, those days are gone.
ill give genuine praise to audi for keeping to of the all time great engine layouts around for a while longer. they audi 5 cylinder and the audi lambo v10 are 2 unicorn engines abandoned by every other company but they kept them alive.
@@NealyLL yeah it was used it a bunch of their cars like but also in some fords like the focus st225 (i own one of these and the sound is phenomenal) and rs as well as the mondeo etc. sadly though they stopped making those engines near a decade ago. the audi tt rs and audi rs3 i believe are the last cars to use a 5 cylinder petrol engine thinking about it i vaguely remember hearing ford made a diesel 5 cylinder? not sure if im remembering that right though.
@@15DEAN1995 spot on, it’s just that 10yrs ago seems like yesterday these days😂😂. Your correct that Ford owned Volvo and used the Volvo engine a lot in a typical Ford fashion. It was a belter of an engine and the T5 was awesome. Easily tuned aswell . I think the diesel 5 cylinder was also a Volvo engine as the v70 and v50 also came with that unit. Could be wrong …. It’s been known😆
Dominant in terms of success, aye. But he meant that V12 and V8 layouts firmly fell out of favour from 1995-2005, with some cheeky and glorious exceptions.
I could give you a really corny answer but it kind of defeats the purpose of having a v10 in the first place.....I believe volkswagen made tdi v10 engines for the phaetons and the tourags. A lot more cheaper but....well its a volkswagen saloon engine
@@xyroah haha was about to say this before i found your comment. Indeed, but still a v10 is a v10. Will still sound cool just saying your cas has got a v10😎
I heard that there was a video showing a test drive where the car failed catastrophically, but I cannot find it. That makes me suspect litigation, or maybe just badly hurt feelings on both sides.
@@Priapos93 I’m pretty sure his mx5 is still at the workshop he was getting al the rust dealt with at. I’m not convinced it ever got the v10 installed to a drivable condition.
I worked at a very exclusive used car dealership from 2008 until 2015 in Johannesburg and was the unofficial "Test Pilot and Fault Finder" when new stock came in, this would involve me taking the car home on a Saturday afternoon, with the company petrol card and putting a few km`s down and seeing if everything worked how it was supposed to and if there were any serious or not so serious faults that needed sorting before we could sell the car, over the years I got to drive some seriously cool machines but 2 stand out in my memory and both were V10`s... The E60 M5 and the Audi R8 V10. The highway loop around Johannesburg between 2am and 4am on a warm summer night made for a perfect test track...not much traffic, very few cops around (and the ones that were could easily be bribed with a few one hundred rand notes if I got a little bit lead footed on the throttle) and that glorious engine wail in the still of the night... I really miss that job!
Cool mate... I remember watching the Grand Prix at Kyalami, Hill span off right in front of us.. I was more interested in the 333is in the parking lot.
@@Justriding Ah...the glory days... We actually had a mint 333i on the floor on consignment back in about 2010...full nut and bolt restoration, it didn`t sit long...went down to Cape Town on the back of a covered truck...stunning machine!
I'm surprised there's no mention of engine balance related to the number of cylinders. You can engineer some of the vibrations out, but V6's don't shake themselves to death like a V10 can.
I was thinking that too. V-6's and V-10's should exist but they do. You'll get a much smoother ride out of an inline 4 or strait 6 or a V-8, V-12, or a V-16.
I Own a 94 viper.. One of the original v10s.. And it never stops pleasing.. Amazing cars... I understand the audi and Lamborghini statements you made. But you could of touched on how the viper inspired a viper racing series and also the 17acr dominated 16 major track records with its pushrod v10... And the fact vipers were pushrod v10s were just amazingly cool!
05 owner agrees. Unfortunately Mike shows his bias really badly here. The remark "and then came the heavy hitters" is definately misplaced. Not to mention that Audi and Lambo started V10 production (over) a decade later then the Viper! Yet they only keep it 5/6 years after the Viper ended production.
@Charles Robinson Agreed, the Viper is criminally underrated and overlooked for what it originally brought to the table. People just didn't care simply because it was a Dodge :/. Seeing the SRT badging gets me just as excited as seeing a Lamborghini badge, personally.
I’m really glad I’m not the only one that prefers the sound of a V10 over a V12. V12’s and V8’s both sound great but I just like the sound of a V10. I realize it’s inherently not as naturally balanced as a v12 but still.
@@Pugjamin yeah I remember his version, Hulk of a cafe racer done with a gen 1 engine. There is also a v8 one called Lazarath that's similar to the Tomahawk but looks wicked in comparison.
Judd is definitely not an odd choice if your want a V10. Also, the Judd LMP engine is not really a ten year old design - Judd do keep updating their designs.
@@playgt326 hydrogen in a combustion engine is a terrible idea. It produces a ton of nitrogen oxides, and requires about 5 times the space for fuel storage
@@playgt326 please point me in the correct direction, because my most recent research says otherwise. Other than NOx, the other problem is energy density which is about 1/5th of gasoline
@@zqzj Not only hydrogen, biogasoline and green electricity have the same problems, we need of all of them, using one technology makes what you say, energies crisis, the efficient also starts from the energy generators.
V10s are great but since the Porsche 919 Hybrid existed I also love the sound of this V4. And if this is one of the solutions cars are efficient, reliable and sounding great, I'm definitely here for it
All the older trucks where I work have the Ford V10 and when ever we get hit by catalytic converter thieves as much as I hate the mountain of hassle I am about to go through to fix them they do sound amazing.
At my landscaping job, the truck I drive is a 2003 f350 with the triton v10. It is SO much nicer to drive than the newer late 2000s v8 f250's that we also use. Those v8 trucks barely feel capable to pull 5-10 thousand pounds. They are slow sluggish dogs to drive. The v10 truck has some real get up and go when you want it to, and you can't even feel if you're towing something, even with 150k miles on it.
Racing doesn't really care about power vs cost. They care about power predominantly with size and weight also being a consideration. Big inline 4s have balance issues with high rpms. Bikes can do it thanks to being around 1 liter or less but you're going to have a hard time pushing a 3 liter inline 4 to 20k the way the V10s and V12s of F1 did. Even V8s couldn't quite do it. When they went to the V8 spec teams had to back off to 18-19k max rpm due to some bad harmonics over that. For big displacement and big power, it's hard to beat a V12 unless you're talking 14 or more cylinder multi-row radial.
Interesting, maybe that's why I absolutely adore my 2.5L, 5 cylinder diesel. It's smooth, power delivery is nice and linear and plentiful when on boost and more torque than you can shake a stick at.
Great video! It's definitely an ambition to own a V10 engined car before it's too late. As the LFA and Carrera GT will likely stay out of reach the R8 will do nicely!
10:35 It's not just the engine, it's also the tech that goes into it that makes the car drive. Drag racing, Formula Drift, engine swap madmen & the car companies themselves proves it. Engines like the Viper, 2JZ, RB30 series & LS series can stand the test of time, because a car is more than just the block that runs it.
The Dodge Viper was the first but it was not F1 that influenced the engine choice, it was more the availability of a V10 truck engine that could be tuned up. Don't forget, even when the Viper was launched, the average V8 was pushing almost as much power stateside and appreciably more this side of the pond.
With regards to fuel consumption figures on modern F1 cars, they are only allowed to consume somewhere around 100-110kg (couldn't find the exact number) of fuel throughout a race which should give you a rough idea of consumption.
Basically around 35L/100KM, for a race car making over 900hp, with drag coefficient of a brick depending on aero setup, and going flat out, that's incredible.
@@afoxwithahat7846 2022 F1 cars have around 750 BhP without the use of the Hybrid electric motor system, what adds a other 150Bhp, giving them a total of 950BHP, accourding to some sources, MB, RB, Ferrari can even reach little over 1000BhP with assist of the Hybrid system. On Monza, the track they drive the most full throttle (70% of the lap) fuel they drive the race with 105kilo fuel (110max) over 360Km race lenght, so do your math. The biggest feat of these engines are their fuel efficientie what lies around 50% to have some reverence, normal cars are around 20 to 25% And this all from a V6 1.5l engine, my car has that that regard a bigger engine and much more displacement, but nowhere near those numbers in preformance and efficiency
i was in Monaco once and was able to see the Grand Prix..the deafening sound of the F1 cars driving under the bridge was outstanding especially with the acoustics of the sound echoing off the concrete wall..bring back the V10! cheers.
I live in Melbourne, and all throughout the early 2000s, I would hear the screaming V10 engines from my house whenever the F1 came to town. Phenomenal sound.
One quick simple answer. Fuel consumption. The most fuel efficient engine for any power output is one cylinder. More cylinders are required to tame vibration and peak torque impulse which destroys transmissions. Thus you see more cylinders required as power output increases. For the power levels required in cars 8 cylinders are enough to tame the noise, vibration and harshness at the highest power levels needed.
Less cylinders are better for thermodynamic efficiency, however you run into problems in a gasoline engine ensuring that the air-fuel mixture is uniform throughout the cylinder, and ignites uniformly, particularly before gasoline direct injection was developed. This problem is less critical for diesels, which are stratified charge engines and don't need a spark plug. That's why the largest diesel engines, in trucks, are inline 6s. The largest road gas engines only approach 1 liter/cylinder, whereas a Cummins X15 is 2.5 l/cylinder.
I've been trying for years to come up with the right adjective(s) for the unique sounds a V10 makes at lower rpms. The high-pitched scream of a 3000cc F1 engine at 18,000rpm or thereabouts is iconic indeed, but I've noticed that most V10s make some wonderful noises at much lower revs that I can only describe as positively lewd. I hope the V10 has a future, but I pray that, if so, they won't all be muzzled by the ubiquitous turbochargers manufacturers are so enamored of these days.
I think it is not just about the engine. Aero, gearboxes, everything came a long way since 2005 let's say. Bear in mind that yes, small turbo can have the same power, but to be as fast you will need to floor it all the time, keep it in the boost range, and essentially each cylinder gets much more stressed. If you drive slow with a big engine it will have lower fuel consumption than a Prius if you drive it flat out.
unfortunately (in my rather biased Toyota mind, at least), the LFA's 1LR V10 engine is the only offering to even hold a candle to the utterly spine-tingling noises of F1 cars from back then. from the 'zip' of idle-to-redline (0.6sec) to the monumental *howling* of it churning out the ponies on a motorway. kudos to the forebears of the V10 tech and for making it available though.
Top Drawer Mike! What about the Connaught V10 & Your Miata build? There's a place for that small displacement high revving jewel of a motor in the industry somewhere!
10:35 mclaren doing this is not surprising at all to me tbh The v8 they put on basically every car is based on an engine prototype nissan built in the late 80's / early 90's for their lemans' cars
@@JohnFromAccounting I classified it as a low-pitched RC car that runs on ethanol XD Also, I must admit that a few more rpm will not harm the sound of these engines...
Its such a shame. The V10 is my favorite engine configuration, and I'm sad to see it so underutilized these days. I really hope that Lamborghini will continue to keep the V10 alive.
I wonder if, once synthetic fuels take hold the car manufacturers would want to implement the super efficient designs of the current V6 engines in to a V10/V12
I very much doubt synthetic fuels will ever take hold for road cars, battery electric is just way more energy efficient... it may make sense for aviation and race/hypercars but that's about it, even hydrogen fuel cell is more reasonable. And even then, I'm pretty sure that at the current F1 displacement regs teams would love to build 4 or even 3 cylinder engines, 6 cylinders is really too much for 1.6 l.
@@johannesgutsmiedl366 I think it's more efficient to use what we already have. It takes 100,000 miles for an EV to pay back it's carbon footprint where as swapping to synthetic fuels is instant. I think there will be a lot of manufacturers not wanting to retool if they can avoid it.
@@MrPuddles3331 by all means drive your fossile fuel car until it breaks down, but the replacement shouldn't be another fossile fuel car that uses incredibly ineffecient synthetic fuel when you can just go battery electric. It's also not an instant switch, production capabilities for synthetic fuels need to be built up first and they are useless if they aren't fed by renewable energy just like battery electric, you just need a LOT more renewable energy due to the overall low efficiency of the system. These days there are only a few car manufacturers still trying to make synthetic or hydrogen fuel happen, mostly the industry has accepted that battery electric is the future at least for personal vehicles (trucks are a different question).
@@johannesgutsmiedl366I doubt battery electric is the future, rather I believe once the hype will finally be over for electric hydrogen will take over. Think about it, why would people NOT want to drive 500+ miles on one fill up with fillups taking 1-2min and with emissions like battery electric and with speeds like battery electric (since hydrogen still uses electricity to power the car) and with the knowledge we wont break our power grid. Its literally the best of a gas engine mixed with the best of an electric engine. All we need is the same investment we had in electric to be put into making the production of hydrogen cheap and efficient (some are produced by gas and not renewable resources such as electrcity) and available to the general market.
My truck is a dodge 2500 with a V10. I decided to look this up because it dawned on me that besides my dodge, I've never seen anyone else with a V10, interesting video
And eventually it turned out to be the wrong decision. Honda was making better power than the Renault V10, but the V12 was heavy, harder to package and used more fuel. But it didn’t really matter since Honda left after 92.
@@TheLeewi98 while the motor was heavier and a little larger... i think the 1991/92 active suspension and newey aero had a lot to do with the Williams speed.. not just the motor..
@@michaelking6596 Yes ofcorse Williams overtook Mclaren in other areas, but the Honda engine was a smaller scale problem as well. Williams was far ahead technically.
It's debatable whether modern cars are really more fuel efficient in my eyes, though it all depends on how you are grading efficiency. Ultimately speaking, if you are making X amount of power, you are burning a minimum of Y amount of fuel just based on energy content of the fuel alone. Yes, some engines are better at doing that than others, but in the modern world, even in the past decade or two, I don't think that efficiency number has changed a crazy amount. In fact, if you actually push a modern turbo engine you are probably going to be less efficient than pushing the same power out of an NA engine. The main reason being that boosted engines are usually run even richer at full power to have a better safety net. A max power NA setup might run in the high 12s or low 13s for air fuel ratio, but boosted setups are usually more like low 12s or even 11s for super high power stuff. So basically, if you are actually using the turbo in your car, you might not really be that much more efficient than an engine without one. A lot of the mpg gains in recent history can be attributed to aero and other driveline efficiencies.
For a cheap V-10 you've gotta go Ford. I paid $4k for my F-250 with a V-10, 6 speed manual, and 4wd--which makes it like a Lamborghini Gallardo but you can pull a boat, camper, race car, etc. with it so in that sense it's even better.
Yes, the triton v10 is probably the most prolific v10 ever made. The only complaint I have is the single digit fuel economy. Although that's probably a trait to all v10 engines, not just the triton
@@Deutsche_flitzer I've gotten as high as 17.2 and as low as 6.8 MPG. I've found it likes to be revved, with my large Lance truck bed camper in the bed I got 8.4 MPG at 65 MPH and 9.9 at 85 MPH. It defies conventional logic. At the same time it's a TRUCK! Who buys a truck for MPG? I drive my Subaru for most of my uses because it just does 97% of what I need for 2.5x the fuel economy but when you need a truck the Ford is just ready to rock. This engine is known to outlast some diesels when maintained as the owner's manual suggests and, with diesel being $1.30/gallon more where I live, it's just as economical while the truck is $10k less and you don't have nearly as much maintenance to worry about.
For 10 years Cadillac, yes Cadillac, from 1930-40 had a V16. There was the small production Cizeta-Moroder V16T, with 64 valves and 8 camshafts! (When I say small, I mean 12). Basically the V-10 is the middle ground between a V-8 and a V-12. In the days where gas is super expensive, it seems only hyper cars can afford big engines. Even Ferrari is making a Twin-Turbo V-6 Hybrid. (Ferrari 296). Some critics were skeptical of the 2.0 Litre Maserati Biturbo. But its engine I think was forward thinking.
I'm enjoying watching Mike mature as a motor journalist. I guess you could say it's growing on me, the cause being a special fizz he seemed to have picked up from the trio.
I wouldn't really say the V10 is dead or the V12 is thriving. The V12 is dead from BMW and Mercedes, only place you can really get one is lambo and ferrari or supercars like pagani Honestly the V10 is still more widely available than the v12
I would agree the v12 is dying…. But its far more alive than the v10. While v12s are being removed from 760is, they are still included in rolls royce and some maybachs. Not only that but ferrari still uses them and so do other high end race cars such as aston martin. The last v10 manufacturers, audi and lamborghini, are both moving away from a v10 to a v8. So honestly no, the v12 is way more alive than the v10.
No no 8:35 not half in fuel, but just as much or more. And I like V8s for the sound so I'm not defending V10s but a na engine of the same power as a Turbo will be more economic
This has to be one of the major things that is missing from modern F1. It is only when you rewatch the footage from 20 years ago that you realise just how much the sound of screaming V10s added to the overall atmosphere of an F1 race. I miss them.
Forgotten v 10 ,,, Fomel 1 van (espace) i was stun when it was presented nothing has never been made like it since , ohh and love the show drive tribe best youtube channel in my mind
I miss the V10 era in F1. For me that iconic sound defines F1. Save the V10 and i wish FIA could somehow bring that distinctive and fantastic sound back to F1.
Isn’t it necessary to mention the Audi I5 engine from 1976? To me, this was unheard of at the time. A 5 cylinder engine made no sense to me back then. But silky smooth and sounded wicked
One other reason is manufacturing. Building a V8 or a V12 is assisted by the fact that it's basically an inline 4 or 6 joined at the crank. It's also possible to make the engine use existing cylinder heads with minimal modification. But for a V10, it has to be an inline 5, which barely ANYONE makes which means the tooling at the plant has to be bespoke and dedicated to a single engine. That makes it even more expensive to make than it otherwise would be, considering economies of scale.
You can say whatever you want but once you drive that S85 V10 in S6 mode... I don't even know how to explain the combination of that poetry and aggression at the same time 🙌
I don't think V10 road cars were the result of any sort of technology transfer from F1 to the road, the engines were very different with only the number of cylinders in common. It was just a marketing exercise and that's the reason they're disappearing. V12 engines remain because they're uniquely well balanced and have a genuine history.
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Cool plates but hilarious to me that they chose to feature/place movie art plates on DRIVETRIBE?
21% of this video is an ad
@@grantandre79 That was just Mike being a nerd, and taking advantage of the free goodies.
I wasn't bothered by the choice to go for movies, but it is kinda funny to see how much we differ but still agree on some things, like i'm born in 1983, so i got a bit of the tail from the original trilogy, for me the Star Wars prequels were bad, but Darth Maul was pretty cool and underused.
Shrek is okay, still kinda funny that it's a Canadian doing the Scottish accent, but he does it well (i guess, i'm not Scottish).
But yeah, cool plates, i actually printed those as well on my previous job (2017), but they were more game related, lots of Witcher III concept art from the official artists, but we usually put epoxy on them, which would probably make them too heavy for the magnet.
Just in case, don't hang them on the ceiling or above your bed/head, or stick some extra magnets on them, i'd hate to think what happens if they come loose.
@@ToTheGAMES painful…
The V10 era in Formula 1 was by far the best. That sound was so exhilarating. To hear them screaming down the front straight just made the hair on your arms stand up. Unfortunately, those days are gone.
I always preferred the V12 though.
V6 turbo with limits on absolutely everything sounds horrible 😭
Nah, by the time the V10 came around there were so many limits on the cars they were all too similar.
the v10 F1 cars where just insane , this tiny little car just screaming a high pitched scream as it goes past the camera. Amazing.
Well best if we talking sound (and that's debateble, I for example prefer older 60-70s engine sounds), but racing? It was if anything worse then now
ill give genuine praise to audi for keeping to of the all time great engine layouts around for a while longer. they audi 5 cylinder and the audi lambo v10 are 2 unicorn engines abandoned by every other company but they kept them alive.
Volvo made a cracking 5 cylinder .
@@NealyLL yeah it was used it a bunch of their cars like but also in some fords like the focus st225 (i own one of these and the sound is phenomenal) and rs as well as the mondeo etc. sadly though they stopped making those engines near a decade ago.
the audi tt rs and audi rs3 i believe are the last cars to use a 5 cylinder petrol engine
thinking about it i vaguely remember hearing ford made a diesel 5 cylinder? not sure if im remembering that right though.
That it's just because they are lazy and run by economists instead of engineers, also helps cheating all the emissions testing.
@@15DEAN1995 spot on, it’s just that 10yrs ago seems like yesterday these days😂😂.
Your correct that Ford owned Volvo and used the Volvo engine a lot in a typical Ford fashion. It was a belter of an engine and the T5 was awesome. Easily tuned aswell . I think the diesel 5 cylinder was also a Volvo engine as the v70 and v50 also came with that unit. Could be wrong …. It’s been known😆
@J M everything is heavy now; we can't make a 1800lb tin can anymore due to safety regs
Definitely right about the 90s era people preferring V10! I bought a V10 Audi this year and I love it.
Save the V10's!
i thought i was the odd one out. it's my favorite layout.
Save the ICE in general.
@@Squidgy55 ICE and Hydrogen fuel 😎
@@v8vince761 👍😎
I agree love my R8 v10
The V10 was already dominant in the 3.5l era, winning the 1989, 1990, 1992 and 1993 championships.
Dominant in terms of success, aye. But he meant that V12 and V8 layouts firmly fell out of favour from 1995-2005, with some cheeky and glorious exceptions.
Small correction... The BMW S85 engine is still one of the least expensive ways to own a V10 motorcar. There's no cheap way of owning one of these.
At least not a working one
isnt the rs6 or the s6/s8 a bit more reliable?
@@gg2324 probably. But less power in the s6/S8 and they suffer coking issues, but I don't think they have any biggies.
I could give you a really corny answer but it kind of defeats the purpose of having a v10 in the first place.....I believe volkswagen made tdi v10 engines for the phaetons and the tourags. A lot more cheaper but....well its a volkswagen saloon engine
@@xyroah haha was about to say this before i found your comment. Indeed, but still a v10 is a v10. Will still sound cool just saying your cas has got a v10😎
Well, as I recall, someone was supposed to create a Connaught V10 Miata, but I don't believe it ever got done.
savagery
I heard that there was a video showing a test drive where the car failed catastrophically, but I cannot find it. That makes me suspect litigation, or maybe just badly hurt feelings on both sides.
@@Priapos93 I’m pretty sure his mx5 is still at the workshop he was getting al the rust dealt with at. I’m not convinced it ever got the v10 installed to a drivable condition.
I was wondering too! I guess Connaught tried to run before they could walk? The induction system on the original engine seemed very Heath Robinson!
It aint gonna happen, he just hopes you forget
I worked at a very exclusive used car dealership from 2008 until 2015 in Johannesburg and was the unofficial "Test Pilot and Fault Finder" when new stock came in, this would involve me taking the car home on a Saturday afternoon, with the company petrol card and putting a few km`s down and seeing if everything worked how it was supposed to and if there were any serious or not so serious faults that needed sorting before we could sell the car, over the years I got to drive some seriously cool machines but 2 stand out in my memory and both were V10`s...
The E60 M5 and the Audi R8 V10.
The highway loop around Johannesburg between 2am and 4am on a warm summer night made for a perfect test track...not much traffic, very few cops around (and the ones that were could easily be bribed with a few one hundred rand notes if I got a little bit lead footed on the throttle) and that glorious engine wail in the still of the night...
I really miss that job!
Cool mate... I remember watching the Grand Prix at Kyalami, Hill span off right in front of us.. I was more interested in the 333is in the parking lot.
@@Justriding Ah...the glory days...
We actually had a mint 333i on the floor on consignment back in about 2010...full nut and bolt restoration, it didn`t sit long...went down to Cape Town on the back of a covered truck...stunning machine!
Cap
Dream job
@@Lofi.z34 🤨 Johannesburg is in South Africa...
I'm surprised there's no mention of engine balance related to the number of cylinders. You can engineer some of the vibrations out, but V6's don't shake themselves to death like a V10 can.
I was thinking that too. V-6's and V-10's should exist but they do. You'll get a much smoother ride out of an inline 4 or strait 6 or a V-8, V-12, or a V-16.
Turbocharged V6 engines are the best !
@@ianwright4255 they should exist but they do
That or the fact that the efficiency gains were due to transmission innovation and not engines them selves.
V6 would shake itself to death without balance shafts
I Own a 94 viper.. One of the original v10s.. And it never stops pleasing.. Amazing cars... I understand the audi and Lamborghini statements you made. But you could of touched on how the viper inspired a viper racing series and also the 17acr dominated 16 major track records with its pushrod v10... And the fact vipers were pushrod v10s were just amazingly cool!
05 owner agrees. Unfortunately Mike shows his bias really badly here. The remark "and then came the heavy hitters" is definately misplaced.
Not to mention that Audi and Lambo started V10 production (over) a decade later then the Viper! Yet they only keep it 5/6 years after the Viper ended production.
@@Mirage8v Be honest, would you rather own a Viper or a Lamborghini?
@@gctzx Easy, Viper.
@Charles Robinson Agreed, the Viper is criminally underrated and overlooked for what it originally brought to the table. People just didn't care simply because it was a Dodge :/. Seeing the SRT badging gets me just as excited as seeing a Lamborghini badge, personally.
@@gctzx viper all day
I must agree with you Mike, the content this year has come along leaps and bounds, such a great channel to watch. Thanks
I’m really glad I’m not the only one that prefers the sound of a V10 over a V12.
V12’s and V8’s both sound great but I just like the sound of a V10.
I realize it’s inherently not as naturally balanced as a v12 but still.
I still love the fact they shoved a viper v10 into a ram back in 2004-06. Can't wait to get mine back
Wait till you see that a guy named Alan shoved one between 2 wheels and made a Viper Motorbike!!
@@Pugjamin Dodge also made a concept bike called the Tomahawk with a viper motor. Seen 2 different designs on it.
@@OGDemonburn I remember seeing the tomahawk. Alan’s bike is street legal and he regularly rides it. He’s on UA-cam, Alan milliard.
@@Pugjamin yeah I remember his version, Hulk of a cafe racer done with a gen 1 engine. There is also a v8 one called Lazarath that's similar to the Tomahawk but looks wicked in comparison.
@Rj's Custom and Classics Channel get back to work, this isn't what I pay you for.
To this day I tear up when I those v10 F1 cars down shift after a long straight! That is why the Lexus LFA remains my favourite road car.
Judd is definitely not an odd choice if your want a V10. Also, the Judd LMP engine is not really a ten year old design - Judd do keep updating their designs.
And possibly, their type of fuel, in the future they will run on hydrogen and biofuel (or e fuels). 🏎️♻️
@@playgt326 hydrogen in a combustion engine is a terrible idea. It produces a ton of nitrogen oxides, and requires about 5 times the space for fuel storage
@@zqzj Today engines are more efficient than old ones, between them, low NOx.
@@playgt326 please point me in the correct direction, because my most recent research says otherwise. Other than NOx, the other problem is energy density which is about 1/5th of gasoline
@@zqzj Not only hydrogen, biogasoline and green electricity have the same problems, we need of all of them, using one technology makes what you say, energies crisis, the efficient also starts from the energy generators.
Speaking of V-10s, what happened with the one you were building for the Miata?
Make this top comment!☝
V10s are great but since the Porsche 919 Hybrid existed I also love the sound of this V4. And if this is one of the solutions cars are efficient, reliable and sounding great, I'm definitely here for it
Ducati and Honda V4's sound awesome as well.
Across the pond, here in America the dominant V10 was the SRT-10 Copperhead engine in the Dodge Viper.
I think the Ford Triton 6.8 is a real underdog in the V10 world. It sounds amazing and it’s an absolute monster.
All the older trucks where I work have the Ford V10 and when ever we get hit by catalytic converter thieves as much as I hate the mountain of hassle I am about to go through to fix them they do sound amazing.
Owned one and own a dodge truck v10 and both are great engines. Dodge more power but the Ford better gas mileage
I love the howl they make, unfortunately they ended production last year.
At my landscaping job, the truck I drive is a 2003 f350 with the triton v10. It is SO much nicer to drive than the newer late 2000s v8 f250's that we also use. Those v8 trucks barely feel capable to pull 5-10 thousand pounds. They are slow sluggish dogs to drive. The v10 truck has some real get up and go when you want it to, and you can't even feel if you're towing something, even with 150k miles on it.
The best, according to most manufacturers (for power vs cost), is a 500ml piston (almost square), hence the trend for 2 litre 4 cylinder.
Racing doesn't really care about power vs cost. They care about power predominantly with size and weight also being a consideration.
Big inline 4s have balance issues with high rpms. Bikes can do it thanks to being around 1 liter or less but you're going to have a hard time pushing a 3 liter inline 4 to 20k the way the V10s and V12s of F1 did. Even V8s couldn't quite do it. When they went to the V8 spec teams had to back off to 18-19k max rpm due to some bad harmonics over that. For big displacement and big power, it's hard to beat a V12 unless you're talking 14 or more cylinder multi-row radial.
As well as 3-liter 6-cylinder engines and 4-liter DOHC V8s. 😁
Interesting, maybe that's why I absolutely adore my 2.5L, 5 cylinder diesel. It's smooth, power delivery is nice and linear and plentiful when on boost and more torque than you can shake a stick at.
Great video! It's definitely an ambition to own a V10 engined car before it's too late. As the LFA and Carrera GT will likely stay out of reach the R8 will do nicely!
V10 Forever in my heart
Wasn't a common engine to begin with. with the i5/vr6 type of engines I'd reckon it was the least used (not counting W16's bc only bugatti has it)
W8 was probably even more rare.
10:35 It's not just the engine, it's also the tech that goes into it that makes the car drive. Drag racing, Formula Drift, engine swap madmen & the car companies themselves proves it. Engines like the Viper, 2JZ, RB30 series & LS series can stand the test of time, because a car is more than just the block that runs it.
b58/s58 exists… 2jz is outdated
The Dodge Viper was the first but it was not F1 that influenced the engine choice, it was more the availability of a V10 truck engine that could be tuned up. Don't forget, even when the Viper was launched, the average V8 was pushing almost as much power stateside and appreciably more this side of the pond.
Ummm ya the viper engine was a bit more than a "tuned up: version the truck variant.
Even amongst all the F1 that carera GT stands out for me. Heroic engine
Most of that is exhaust. When people put straight pipes on it, they ruin the sound.
Fascinating, and great video, cheers guys !
V10's were always a special type of engine because it was just soo rare its a shame they are dead
With regards to fuel consumption figures on modern F1 cars, they are only allowed to consume somewhere around 100-110kg (couldn't find the exact number) of fuel throughout a race which should give you a rough idea of consumption.
Basically around 35L/100KM, for a race car making over 900hp, with drag coefficient of a brick depending on aero setup, and going flat out, that's incredible.
100kg/hour en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One_engines#Combustion,_construction,_operation,_power,_fuel_and_lubrication
I guess every car would run out of fuel with just 100kgs, they're really not gonna go a full race distance with this
@@russotusso1695 mate, they don't go flat out, and they don't make 900hp.
@@afoxwithahat7846 2022 F1 cars have around 750 BhP without the use of the Hybrid electric motor system, what adds a other 150Bhp, giving them a total of 950BHP, accourding to some sources, MB, RB, Ferrari can even reach little over 1000BhP with assist of the Hybrid system.
On Monza, the track they drive the most full throttle (70% of the lap) fuel they drive the race with 105kilo fuel (110max) over 360Km race lenght, so do your math.
The biggest feat of these engines are their fuel efficientie what lies around 50% to have some reverence, normal cars are around 20 to 25%
And this all from a V6 1.5l engine, my car has that that regard a bigger engine and much more displacement, but nowhere near those numbers in preformance and efficiency
These are great info snippets with some DriveTribe finese, I'm really enjoying the content and banter
V10 and v12 naturally aspirated are the best sounding cars ever made!
Simply the best layout of all with the Lexus LFA as the king for a road car, so lovely
I literally couldn't give a toss about the "greeness" of modern F1 cars. They are not a patch on the V10 era cars.
i was in Monaco once and was able to see the Grand Prix..the deafening sound of the F1 cars driving under the bridge was outstanding especially with the acoustics of the sound echoing off the concrete wall..bring back the V10! cheers.
This better be an update on the V10 MX5
I live in Melbourne, and all throughout the early 2000s, I would hear the screaming V10 engines from my house whenever the F1 came to town. Phenomenal sound.
One quick simple answer. Fuel consumption. The most fuel efficient engine for any power output is one cylinder. More cylinders are required to tame vibration and peak torque impulse which destroys transmissions. Thus you see more cylinders required as power output increases. For the power levels required in cars 8 cylinders are enough to tame the noise, vibration and harshness at the highest power levels needed.
Less cylinders are better for thermodynamic efficiency, however you run into problems in a gasoline engine ensuring that the air-fuel mixture is uniform throughout the cylinder, and ignites uniformly, particularly before gasoline direct injection was developed. This problem is less critical for diesels, which are stratified charge engines and don't need a spark plug. That's why the largest diesel engines, in trucks, are inline 6s. The largest road gas engines only approach 1 liter/cylinder, whereas a Cummins X15 is 2.5 l/cylinder.
I've been trying for years to come up with the right adjective(s) for the unique sounds a V10 makes at lower rpms. The high-pitched scream of a 3000cc F1 engine at 18,000rpm or thereabouts is iconic indeed, but I've noticed that most V10s make some wonderful noises at much lower revs that I can only describe as positively lewd. I hope the V10 has a future, but I pray that, if so, they won't all be muzzled by the ubiquitous turbochargers manufacturers are so enamored of these days.
To me, the V10 always felt the Mike Tyson of car engines
Very cool video!, thanks!👍
I have actually been looking forward to someone making this video……. THANK YOU.
I think it is not just about the engine. Aero, gearboxes, everything came a long way since 2005 let's say. Bear in mind that yes, small turbo can have the same power, but to be as fast you will need to floor it all the time, keep it in the boost range, and essentially each cylinder gets much more stressed. If you drive slow with a big engine it will have lower fuel consumption than a Prius if you drive it flat out.
I love that you had a clip from 19Bozzy92, I've been subbed to him for years now.
V12s have perfect balance. V8s are much simpler to make. The V10 sound is my favorite though.
unfortunately (in my rather biased Toyota mind, at least), the LFA's 1LR V10 engine is the only offering to even hold a candle to the utterly spine-tingling noises of F1 cars from back then. from the 'zip' of idle-to-redline (0.6sec) to the monumental *howling* of it churning out the ponies on a motorway. kudos to the forebears of the V10 tech and for making it available though.
One of the first vehicles I drove was a V10! a 95 Dodge 2500 with an 8.0 Magnum V10
Funny I have one in the driveway but it's a 3500
Top Drawer Mike! What about the Connaught V10 & Your Miata build? There's a place for that small displacement high revving jewel of a motor in the industry somewhere!
As a boat anchor!
Here in the USA between the 90s & 00s we also got factory V10 pickup trucks, the Dodge Ram & Ford F-series Super Duty.
That sound makes my heart sing...
70's kid here. Whatever V it is make sure its got the power
Germany’s synthetic fuel industry, 1927-1945, you did mention synthetic fuels after all.
10:35 mclaren doing this is not surprising at all to me tbh
The v8 they put on basically every car is based on an engine prototype nissan built in the late 80's / early 90's for their lemans' cars
Hmm I do enjoy the current F1 sound. It's refined and sounds efficient. I'd also rather not hear my engine much than having it boosted by speakers...
They sound like tractors. It's not a nice sound.
@@JohnFromAccounting I classified it as a low-pitched RC car that runs on ethanol XD Also, I must admit that a few more rpm will not harm the sound of these engines...
Bless you for that outro!
Its such a shame. The V10 is my favorite engine configuration, and I'm sad to see it so underutilized these days. I really hope that Lamborghini will continue to keep the V10 alive.
Great video, thanks for the v10 notes
Don’t forget that Ford had a V10 in the SuperDuty line of trucks, vans and motor home chassis until 2019. It was an extremely high production engine.
Only in North America. Outside the US these are pretty much unnown
What happened to the VR10 mx5 you was building ?
Loved my tuned Volvo 5cyl!! Half of the cylinders tho!
I wonder if, once synthetic fuels take hold the car manufacturers would want to implement the super efficient designs of the current V6 engines in to a V10/V12
I very much doubt synthetic fuels will ever take hold for road cars, battery electric is just way more energy efficient... it may make sense for aviation and race/hypercars but that's about it, even hydrogen fuel cell is more reasonable. And even then, I'm pretty sure that at the current F1 displacement regs teams would love to build 4 or even 3 cylinder engines, 6 cylinders is really too much for 1.6 l.
@@johannesgutsmiedl366 I think it's more efficient to use what we already have. It takes 100,000 miles for an EV to pay back it's carbon footprint where as swapping to synthetic fuels is instant. I think there will be a lot of manufacturers not wanting to retool if they can avoid it.
@@MrPuddles3331 by all means drive your fossile fuel car until it breaks down, but the replacement shouldn't be another fossile fuel car that uses incredibly ineffecient synthetic fuel when you can just go battery electric. It's also not an instant switch, production capabilities for synthetic fuels need to be built up first and they are useless if they aren't fed by renewable energy just like battery electric, you just need a LOT more renewable energy due to the overall low efficiency of the system. These days there are only a few car manufacturers still trying to make synthetic or hydrogen fuel happen, mostly the industry has accepted that battery electric is the future at least for personal vehicles (trucks are a different question).
@@johannesgutsmiedl366I doubt battery electric is the future, rather I believe once the hype will finally be over for electric hydrogen will take over.
Think about it, why would people NOT want to drive 500+ miles on one fill up with fillups taking 1-2min and with emissions like battery electric and with speeds like battery electric (since hydrogen still uses electricity to power the car) and with the knowledge we wont break our power grid.
Its literally the best of a gas engine mixed with the best of an electric engine. All we need is the same investment we had in electric to be put into making the production of hydrogen cheap and efficient (some are produced by gas and not renewable resources such as electrcity) and available to the general market.
The only thing that sounds better than the old rally car 5 cylinders is when you weld two of 'em together and stick the whole thing in an F1 car.
My truck is a dodge 2500 with a V10. I decided to look this up because it dawned on me that besides my dodge, I've never seen anyone else with a V10, interesting video
@mike .. Actually McLaren Honda switched away from their dominant v10 of 1989/90 to a v12 for 1991 to counter the Renault v10.
And eventually it turned out to be the wrong decision. Honda was making better power than the Renault V10, but the V12 was heavy, harder to package and used more fuel. But it didn’t really matter since Honda left after 92.
@@TheLeewi98 while the motor was heavier and a little larger... i think the 1991/92 active suspension and newey aero had a lot to do with the Williams speed.. not just the motor..
@@michaelking6596 Yes ofcorse Williams overtook Mclaren in other areas, but the Honda engine was a smaller scale problem as well. Williams was far ahead technically.
Audi Quattro with I5 engine is probably cheapest way to own "half of V10" and have ton of fun (specially in winter on snowy roads)
TT rs is discontinued 😢😢😢😢 Audi rs3 is the only way now
Love your work 👍
I miss the Viper. It’s my dream car and my favorite car to have in my racing games. The scream of all 10 cylinders just gets my blood pumping!
It's debatable whether modern cars are really more fuel efficient in my eyes, though it all depends on how you are grading efficiency. Ultimately speaking, if you are making X amount of power, you are burning a minimum of Y amount of fuel just based on energy content of the fuel alone. Yes, some engines are better at doing that than others, but in the modern world, even in the past decade or two, I don't think that efficiency number has changed a crazy amount. In fact, if you actually push a modern turbo engine you are probably going to be less efficient than pushing the same power out of an NA engine. The main reason being that boosted engines are usually run even richer at full power to have a better safety net. A max power NA setup might run in the high 12s or low 13s for air fuel ratio, but boosted setups are usually more like low 12s or even 11s for super high power stuff. So basically, if you are actually using the turbo in your car, you might not really be that much more efficient than an engine without one. A lot of the mpg gains in recent history can be attributed to aero and other driveline efficiencies.
For a cheap V-10 you've gotta go Ford. I paid $4k for my F-250 with a V-10, 6 speed manual, and 4wd--which makes it like a Lamborghini Gallardo but you can pull a boat, camper, race car, etc. with it so in that sense it's even better.
Yes, the triton v10 is probably the most prolific v10 ever made. The only complaint I have is the single digit fuel economy. Although that's probably a trait to all v10 engines, not just the triton
@@Deutsche_flitzer I've gotten as high as 17.2 and as low as 6.8 MPG. I've found it likes to be revved, with my large Lance truck bed camper in the bed I got 8.4 MPG at 65 MPH and 9.9 at 85 MPH. It defies conventional logic. At the same time it's a TRUCK! Who buys a truck for MPG? I drive my Subaru for most of my uses because it just does 97% of what I need for 2.5x the fuel economy but when you need a truck the Ford is just ready to rock. This engine is known to outlast some diesels when maintained as the owner's manual suggests and, with diesel being $1.30/gallon more where I live, it's just as economical while the truck is $10k less and you don't have nearly as much maintenance to worry about.
What happened to the v10 MX5 you was building?
V10s will forever be my favorite engine layout. No other engine layout can match the sound and RPM.
The high-pitched roaring whine of those V10s really were something else
Williams and McLaren, No mention of Renault?
Completely loved my R8 V10 with Capristo exhaust 🔥
you managed to afford an r8?
Much Respect to the people at drivetribe
For 10 years Cadillac, yes Cadillac, from 1930-40 had a V16. There was the small production Cizeta-Moroder V16T, with 64 valves and 8 camshafts! (When I say small, I mean 12). Basically the V-10 is the middle ground between a V-8 and a V-12. In the days where gas is super expensive, it seems only hyper cars can afford big engines. Even Ferrari is making a Twin-Turbo V-6 Hybrid. (Ferrari 296). Some critics were skeptical of the 2.0 Litre Maserati Biturbo. But its engine I think was forward thinking.
The sound of v10 engines make me cry; specially ferrari f2004
I'm enjoying watching Mike mature as a motor journalist. I guess you could say it's growing on me, the cause being a special fizz he seemed to have picked up from the trio.
I've wondered about twin-turbo 1.3L V10s (with an extreme under-square for combustion efficiency) meeting in the middle.
Just the video i have been looking for😮
That v10 is close to hitting 100k miles on the clock
Its really sad, there doing the same with the straight 5 (the baby v10)
You should be happy to know that even though the tt rs is gone, the new rs3 still has an inline 5 and will continue to use it
I wouldn't really say the V10 is dead or the V12 is thriving. The V12 is dead from BMW and Mercedes, only place you can really get one is lambo and ferrari or supercars like pagani Honestly the V10 is still more widely available than the v12
I would agree the v12 is dying…. But its far more alive than the v10. While v12s are being removed from 760is, they are still included in rolls royce and some maybachs. Not only that but ferrari still uses them and so do other high end race cars such as aston martin. The last v10 manufacturers, audi and lamborghini, are both moving away from a v10 to a v8. So honestly no, the v12 is way more alive than the v10.
great topic!
❤️❤️❤️❤️ PRODUCTION TEAM 👏👏👏👏👏
I'll just hope for synthetic carbon neutral fuels to power V10 engines in the future if the V10 will never come back.
And that they gets more efficient. 🙏🏻
No no 8:35 not half in fuel, but just as much or more. And I like V8s for the sound so I'm not defending V10s but a na engine of the same power as a Turbo will be more economic
Great work
This has to be one of the major things that is missing from modern F1. It is only when you rewatch the footage from 20 years ago that you realise just how much the sound of screaming V10s added to the overall atmosphere of an F1 race. I miss them.
Out of all the sponsors y’all have done, this is one I might actually buy some stuff from. Thanks for not doing raid shadow legends 😅
Forgotten v 10 ,,, Fomel 1 van (espace) i was stun when it was presented nothing has never been made like it since , ohh and love the show drive tribe best youtube channel in my mind
I miss the V10 era in F1. For me that iconic sound defines F1. Save the V10 and i wish FIA could somehow bring that distinctive and fantastic sound back to F1.
Great video
Isn’t it necessary to mention the Audi I5 engine from 1976? To me, this was unheard of at the time. A 5 cylinder engine made no sense to me back then. But silky smooth and sounded wicked
as a 2000s kid I grew up with the Need For Speed Carbon and F1 V10 sounds
One other reason is manufacturing. Building a V8 or a V12 is assisted by the fact that it's basically an inline 4 or 6 joined at the crank. It's also possible to make the engine use existing cylinder heads with minimal modification. But for a V10, it has to be an inline 5, which barely ANYONE makes which means the tooling at the plant has to be bespoke and dedicated to a single engine. That makes it even more expensive to make than it otherwise would be, considering economies of scale.
You can say whatever you want but once you drive that S85 V10 in S6 mode... I don't even know how to explain the combination of that poetry and aggression at the same time 🙌
m6 manual v10… dream car right there
Talking about V10s, what ever happened to that V10 Miata you guys were doing. We never got to see the car drive.
I like how you pointed out Donkey before the princess... hehehehe
I don't think V10 road cars were the result of any sort of technology transfer from F1 to the road, the engines were very different with only the number of cylinders in common. It was just a marketing exercise and that's the reason they're disappearing.
V12 engines remain because they're uniquely well balanced and have a genuine history.
Super Cool, story, well presented.