It'll always get more expensive, if they load up infrastructure spending as brain farts rather than a properly planned infrastructure pipeline of projects that keeps equipment, personnel within Victoria.
They should just extend the weribee line to Wyndham Vale. It would only need 500 metres of rail and then electrification. It would be such a quick low cost project but would improve connectivity for Werribee and the south west so much.
Agreed plus a new train station at Black Forest Road. This would help overcrowding on the busy Wyndham Vale and Tarneit vline services. In the short term you could also implement high capacity signalling between Flinders Street and Newport West to allow even some Geelong services through here, as level crossings will be removed on the Werrribee line. This would make Tarneit and Wyndham Vale more of a stand alone line, given their high patronage until electrification is done.
While I disagree with the omission of south yarra, I’m not sure it’s worth adding a very expensive station (up to $1 billion) for the benefit of connecting to an (already very quiet) 3-station branch line
Metro 2 needs to happen before capacity becomes an issue, rather than waiting until it is. Sadly, with SRL and demand for an airport rail link, I dont see this ever being built.
One group who would really benefit from this tunnel are Geelong-Melbourne commuters, who could probably save a good 10-20 minutes with a more direct route through Werribee and the tunnel as opposed to winding up through Sunshine and down again. Unfortunately, setting the tunnel up for those people will lead to additional expenses on the project -- since the Geelong line isn't currently electrified and diesel trains shouldn't go through metro tunnels, you would need to either electrify the line to Geelong, build bimodal trains that can use electric power through the city and diesel on the unelectrified lines, or set up timed transfers with cross-platform interchanging at Werribee.
Good video! Please consider making a video about the concept line called Melbourne Metro 3. That concept was proposed to incorporate a Doncaster line and Airport rail via a new tunnel under Bourke St in the CBD with new Platforms at Southern Cross, Parliament and a new station under Bourke St Mall.
@ I agree. Ideally MM2 would have been started now instead of the SRL. With the MM1 almost finished and the resources moving away from that project it would have been logical to have them move onto MM2 projects.
i’m surprised that there aren’t 2 stations between Parkville and Clifton Hill - would make so much sense to have 2; Fitzroy between Rathdowne and Brunswick Streets, and Collingwood between Smith and Wellington Streets, renaming the current Collingwood station to Abbotsford
Modern metro/train developments in Sydney and Melbourne tend to favour fewer overall stops, which gets closer to express speeds on a simple timetable. With the area already well covered by high quality trams, I think one good interchange would strike a good balance between accessibility and through traffic. Some proposals don't have any station between Parkville and Clifton Hill, which is really worrying.
The Melbourne metro 2 from Clifton Hill to Newport via Spencer St makes sense. It hopefully then allows the potential for a line to Doncaster and maybe further to terminate at Donvale (Springvale Road)
line to doncaster is no go now, after all there will be dedicated bus interchange at bottom of hill next to freeway, dedicated bus lines on eastern freeway and down hoddle st. If planned well will make a quick trip and with progress probably electric buses.
They're both smart ideas. Melbourne does need a non-radial line like many comparably sized cities already have. But you're right. This should've been given priority. The SRL is clearly politically driven in order to win over votes in the more historically conservative leaning eastern suburbs.
@@eddielong8663Yeah, especially with work from home radial networks could become increasingly inefficient. I wish both could be done by stopping the subsidisation of car infrastructure .
I feel like a fair bit of the line could be constructed using cut-and-cover which would offset a bit of the cost. There really isn't much in Fishermans Bend to get in the way (Aside from the West Gate of course) and the recent proposed alignment seems to go underneath Fenrell St anyway. For that reason I am also partial to the alignment underneath Alexandra Parade, as it is wide enough to allow for cut-and-cover without it being prohibitively disruptive.
Not really because SRL is sucking up everything that should be allocated to more useful transit projects like BRT, MM2, city loop reconfiguration, airport rail, Electrification of interurban regional Victoria. And the government will soon have to choose between retaining most of our trams or SRL. (i’d pick trams any day of the week). Or alternatively we could rip up most if not all of our regional rail lines to free up money for the SRL.
@@tomhenry6440 not really because SRL will drain the budget of every other transit project that could be infinitely better like electrification of regional Victoria, airport rail, electrification out to certain places like Wallan, Wyndham Vale and Melton as well as the reopening of some regional lines which most certainly won’t happen due to the SRL and other Melbourne-based projects repeatedly taking priority over anything outside Melbourne gets left in the dust (Ignoring regional rail revival).
@merri-bekRailfan I get where you're coming from but I think people overestimate the impact SRL will have on finances - it will probably only be ~$30 billion for stage 1 spread over a decade's worth of budgets - amounting to about $3-4bn/year. There will definitely be room for other projects, the limiting factor will be construction capability imo, but projects like MM2 may need to be slowed it should be said
@@MetroManMelbourne well, the feds turned off the money tap. And several new sources including the ABC reported that the SRL is currently sitting at 200 million over budget
With how much infrastructure projects now costs, especially the debacle of the suburban rail loop, i strongly doubt politicians will put their names on the line to approve a project like this.
The "official" (I use that word lightly) melbourne metro 3 proposal is from the Airport to Doncaster via Keilor and the CBD, something I need to make a video on at some point
Essentially, with both Metro 1 and 2 complete, the network would have been de-interlined, going from 4 different "groups" (Burnley/Caulfield/Northern/Clifton Hill) each with 2-5 branches running into 4 loop tunnels, to a whole bunch of different lines which would largely be independent of each other - Sunbury/Airport-Cranbourne/Pakenham, Wyndham Vale-Mernda/Wollert, Craigieburn-Frankston, Upfield-Glen Waverley/Alamein, Laverton/Williamstown-Sandringham, Belgrave/Lilydale-City Loop, Hurstbridge-City Loop. Every one of these lines could run at the maximum line capacity (usually 24tph), so in effect, we would be able to add probably well more than a hundred trains per hour into the city during peak hours, amounting to probably an extra 200-300,000 riders/hour.
I've always wondered, just what that bend between the Merri and Rushall stations was. It looked out of place, as the Mernda train takes that long wide turn. It was a rail line?
@MetroManMelbourne oh thanks for that. I remember my Dad talking about the inner line. (He was from Clifton Hill) But like most boys, I didn't pay enough attention to the details of his story.
I would like to some overdue uogrades which are cheaper and will be faster to build to be done first. For example Upfield duplication and extension to Roxburgh Park, Rowville rail, major bus reform and Western Rail Plan.
Rowville rail is a surprisingly complicated project that probably requires quadruplication of the Dandenong line (expensive) - otherwise I tend to agree
@MetroManMelbourne potentially though Rowville trains could stop all stations from Caulfield as happens now with all East Pakenham and Cranbourne trains. Maybe Rowville trains could take the path of existing Westall short train services. Rowville would primarily be skyrail down North Road which I think would reduce the cost.
@@SimonsHouseofEntertainment the issue is that the corridor doesn't have enough capacity, even with CBTC signalling - it's not to do with express running.
This would work well but I can’t help but wonder if extending electrification further out to our outer suburbs would help more than this? As the inner suburbs are increasingly more expensive to live in we are seeing people moving out further, past Wallan, melton, Whittlesea ect. Having usable train lines out there would massively decrease congestion on our roads. I reckon this should be prioritised as Melbourne is growing by the day and these are only served by Vline. This is coming from someone who uses the Mernda line
the Fishermans Bend TOD would be huge, but i think light rail can handle it for now, SRL, Airport Rail, and Doncaster are still more urgent projects because of the distance, which our heavy rail is better suited to handle. the Southbank connection itself is good, finally bringing back the scale of service that hasn't existed since the very start of Steam rail service, it just won't contribute a whole lot to projects like SRL.
25-30 billion dollars is still a lot less than some insane road expansions, but I do think there could be some smaller scale improvements made across the network with much better value for money. Off peak frequencies are really what needs to improve, and that is largely possible with existing infrastructure and rolling stock.
The Geelong VLine train can go through this, without all the stops. Just using the rails. Metro trains can wait as it passes as Vliners pay more and have further to travel. Not to mention the western suburbs give everyone a headache.
I tend not to film on busy trains for privacy reasons; the footage from this video is the exception rather than the rule, and was also taken on a different line and on a counter-peak train (away from the city during the morning) that ran mostly express.
Btw in the graphic of Fishermans Bend, the arrow should be pointing slightly further north as you can see where the new Turner St with tram line exists (look at the left of the graphic to see the tram itself). This is an excellent video, where did you find all the alignment option maps? I have a feeling if they built a Newport West station it would not have cross-platform transfers and would instead be up/down MM2 up/down Altona platforms. And I also think they will build a Fitzroy station on Alexandra Pde as there is enough room in the median to avoid needing to shutdown the road, like they would have to do for Johnston St. It's an interesting thought that the existing alignment could be kept for MCG or special services, I wonder how they would fit in a trenched (or underground) Merri station with tracks that remain above ground, or would they need to have some ramps south of the underground Clifton Hill platforms to get back to the current alignment?
The alignment option maps are linked in the description (labelled "2017 report" and "2024 alignment"). I wouldn't be surprised if they built a station on Alexandra Parade - personally though, I think the ideal outcome would be a cut-and-cover line along Johnston St, which would be disruptive sure but would be cheaper and would avoid requiring passengers to go down 5 storeys to get on the train (which adds a lot of travel time). For the existing alignment, I suspect that they would simply keep a single track of the two connecting from the tunnel portal near Merri to Clifton Hill, not linked to MM2 anywhere.
Metro 2 should continue into the east to Doncaster, the Eastern Freeway was built with an extra-wide median strip precisely to provide a right of way for a Doncaster Railway
They definitely need the interchange at Newport! Do they realise how many people travel back and forth between the Werribee and Footscray?! Or Werribee to the Williamstown area for the beach?
The Laverton trains (via the altona loop) connects at two separate stations on the line. A new station at 'south newport' and laverton? So it still allows connections, minus a direct connection to Williamstown
As stated in the video - connections from Werribee and the Altona loop to both Footscray and MM2 will be very easy with a Newport South station. PTV has stated in the past that there aren’t enough people travelling from Williamstown to justify building an expensive new underground Newport station, at least initially. You can read the report in the description if you would like.
@@MetroManMelbourne oh I can understand that, fully on board with it, I’m just concerned that the position of Newport South could either pseudo fix this problem in the meantime, or not. Bridging the gap to allow for a somewhat useful connection and for the development to get a move on in the meantime, and the transport use in the area to start changing. If they design it in a way that is walking distance to Newport at one end (a little bit town hall/flinders street like, but admittedly with probably a little more distance, think London Underground connections) and has decent, clear walking connections, maybe pedestrian bridges at points etc, it could allow for the connection to exist in a useful but not ideal form in the meantime, without the expensive underground build. Then as density builds in the area and trips increase, any future underground thing they do to increase the efficiency of the transfer could be justified by demand, foot traffic between the stations etc. My original comment admittedly gave absolutely none of this nuance though, my bad 🤦🏻😂 but yeah, talking about a Newport connection currently, I’m more talking about them hopefully positioning Newport South well, rather than going straight in with an underground build. Heck, if they position Newport South well enough, they could probably get away without an underground station/platforms unless the area develops in a way similar to the North Melbourne/Arden plans, or as some sort of pseudo extension of the Fishermen’s Bend development well off in the future.
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I can’t help but think it would be better routed via Southbank with a station at balston st and city rd and than a new station at the Federation square carpark before than shooting up to Fitzroy.
The major issue with that is the Yarra - a station in Southbank would need to be very deep underground (and thus expensive) to cross the Yarra River, and may need to be on a gradient. The current alignment leaves some 600m at the shortest from a station to the river vs. more like 50m for a fed square station. Not impossible (as the Metro Tunnel proves) but not cheap
The western end of the project should incorporate the Altona Loop, removing it from the Werribee line and duplicating the tracks at the same time, and at least one new station in Point Cook which continues to expand south without adequate public transport infrastructure.
The project specifically avoids the Altona Loop to allow it to be separated from the rest of the Werribee line, as it is a slower route, and the section through Altona would be difficult to duplicate thereby impacting on reliability. Still, a line to Point Cook should be examined eventually.
How long would this underground line be? The one that was estimated at 7 billion at some point, that could probably end up costing 25 billion? That was interesting! Greetings from Paris.
Doncaster Park&Ride to Clifton Hill and merge to existing line should be the one to construct due to high demand and practicality. Unfortunately the ridiculous east-north link has killed this line.
a tram line branching off the port line then going along howe parade then a loop through the bend then back towards the cbd is a better idea. curves on a train line as was shown on the map of fishermans bend just slows the journey for everyone else.
This isn’t about a train line for fisherman’s bend, at its heart; it’s about segregating train lines, something we will eventually need to do, it’s just convenient that it can run through fisherman’s bend. Even with the curves, it will still probably take 5-10 mins off the Newport to city travel time.
@@MetroManMelbourne , melbourne already has a train speed problem. speed of service is what brings customers. observe the success of v/locity services. unless there is a truly good reason for installing curves there shouldnt be curves. theres not likely to be much buried beneath the ground of fishermans bend that needs avoiding.
@@fireman1468 It would have to be either Newport west or Paisely, they wouldn't have both. They are too close in proximity to each other. I see your logic, it's better to have something than nothing.
i dont understand why they need to have new stations at newport and southern cross. surely all we need is stairs going down to some underground platforms, wouldnt that simplify it?
It's a branding exercise. "We're building a new station" sounds better than "We're adding new platforms". That's why the Metro 1 CBD stations are called State Library and Town Hall even though they're functionally extensions of Central and Flinders St.
> "[Metro 2] will connect Fitzroy to the rail network for the first time" Fun bit of trivia the old Fitzroy station was in Fitzroy North/North Fitzroy, though both in the old city of Fitzroy. Rushall station is still in Fitzroy North today.
This is a brilliant idea. It should have been done 40 years ago! The west would have been a logical growth area as it is so close as the crow flies. Also, this would relieve some traffic problems on the Westgate Bridge. Surely this is worth it
Metro II should be a quad tunnel, going straight down Elizabeth Street. Stops to the north Vic Market (between Mel-b’n Cnt, and the Vic Market, Parkville, (then turn east under Mel-b’n Uni, 'til it reaches Elgin St) Carlton (between Mel-b’n Uni & Lygon St), Fitzroy (between Brunswick and Smith Sts), Vic Park (then skyrail), Chandler Hwy, Bourke Rd, Bulleen Rd, Greythorn, Doncaster SC, Victoria St, Tunstall Sq. Donvale Line Bulleen Rd, Bulleen Plaza, Feather Top (Lwr Templestowe), Templestowe (Templestowe shops, or High St), The Pines SC, Warrandyte (Warrandyte Line) Elizabeth st would be between Flinders & Collins Sts. Stops to the south west (skyrail along old Port Mel-b’n line) Montague St (then tunnel under Williamstown Rd), Graham St (turning north west) Salmon St, Newport to Werribee (Wyndham Vale?) Stops to the south (skyrail along old StKilda Line) South Mel-b’n, Albert Park, Middle Park, StKilda (then tunnel under Grey and Inkerman Sts) StKilda Rd, Balaclava, Ripponlea, Elsternwick, Gardenvale (turn east tunnel under North Rd), Caulfield South, Ormond, Bentleigh East, Huntingdale, Monash Uni, Mulgrave, Jells Rd, Rowville (Rowville Line) Extend Sandringham Line via tunnel Black Rock, Mentone, Morrabbin Airport (skyrail & ground lvl) Dingley Village, Springvale South, Keysborough, Dandenong South (Dandenong South Line) Mernda Line (and Wollert Line) would follow the old inner circle line Stops at Fitzroy North, Carlton North, (joining Upfield (Wallen?) Line) Mel-b’n Zoo, Children's Hospital, (joining at Parkville)
The issues with running it overground are: 1. It would require a bridge as tall as the west gate bridge to cross the west end of the yarra - incredibly expensive (maybe even more so than a tunnel) 2. Even if you ran it overground through fisherman’s bend, it then still needs to run very deep to cross the yarra river near the city, so you would probably require the sandridge station area to be tunnelled anyway. 3. There’s no surface alignment for it to follow through Fitzroy without demolishing many buildings (more expensive than a cut-and-cover tunnel)
This is slightly off topic, but flagstaff gardens made me think, what is it with Australian cities and naming every platfroms at a station a different thing? Why would you have flagstaff and flagstaff gardens instead of just flagstaff? Town hall and flinders street? Library and melbourne central? Don't even get me started on hunter street in syndey
The Victorian Government should take planning powers off the councils and upzone areas around stations and put in place land taxes to account for this increase in this value
Interesting how this is using essentially a part of what the Liberals proposed over a decade ago and it was slammed (Fisherman's Bend section). With the state's finances, this will be a difficult sell.
The Liberals proposed re-routing the metro tunnel via south Melbourne and on to Southern Cross - almost universally recognised as a poor plan. It's important to recognise that they did nothing to start that project.
@@user-wy4ci7yj6b Only in power for 4 years. Governments (of any flavour) only get started on big projects in their late second and third terms, unfortunately.
it's not really at all the same proposal. That proposal was, frankly, a half-arse of MM1 and only barely served the fishermans bend region, whereas this makes more sense from a long-term network planning point of view in terms of separating branch lines
If the Liberals had gone ahead with the Metro Tunnel, we would be using it by now. Four wasted years! Also Metro 2 tunnelling may have been started. Liberals can't be trusted with public transport projects. They only think of their developer mates instead of what is good for the general population.
The Fishermans bend to Parkvile section should be heavily private funded by qlum from Melbpurne uni as that is essentially there as a uni shuttle between campuses, the Newport extension is essential, we need to have better connection to the west that doesnt go up and around, electrifyong it all the way to Geelong may also be somethinh that may need to be cut, you cannpt run diesel on yhe tunnels, but there was never anybissues with intervhanging at werribee so we can just go back to running a seperate Geelong to Werribee service to slot between the wyndham service, hiwever what I really really want to see if a light rail run down palmers and citting accross to derimit
They only have funding to draw lines on maps. They will update the drawings every 5 years. You can view these maps while travelling on the existing lines lines built 50+ years ago. 😂
Maybe you should talk about crap our timetable is for metro and vline, vline always getting caught behind metro on the pakenham line and something can be done
At a public meeting in Carnegie for the level crossing removal, the authority was asked about at least providing provision for 4 tracks. The LXR said, we are a level crossing removal authority, not a rail planning body.
@@blueycarlton it is possible to let 25 mins so vline doesn’t get stuck behind metro, so you run 2 Cranbourne trains after that and then after the vline passes 2 pakenham train and even a 3rd in peak,
I don't like this frame of mind. Realistically, both SRL and MM2 should be built at some point; we should be considering the two as part of a broader network-building effort rather than competing projects.
I'd actually like to see the complete MM2 finished before SRL North starts. The bottlenecks MM2 eliminates are bad now and will be completely swamped within 10 years. The transport benefits of SRL could be achieved in the short term with bus infrastructure and service investment and SRL North was never as valuable from an up-zoning and density perspective as SRL East. Not to mention more track pairs to the west should probably be Melbourne's top priority at the moment.
If you look at the course of this system it is absolutely going nowhere. What does it serve the ports receive all incoming goods? Where do those goods go to? There? Won’t be many of them going down this road. This reminds me of supplying electricity to China through the Philippines Now that’s a big waste of money a huge waste of money but let’s face it. If you’re giving kickbacks to people the bigger the bill the better the kickback this government couldn’t run a bath as an economist and a person who has written law in this country that the federal police use 247 to charge your credit card from fraud from down under where they never stick to any law
I hope this doesn't happen; other projects need to be built. The Cranbourne line needs to be extended to Clyde, the Doncaster rail needs to happen, and the Rowville and Mornington rail - like many other important proposals. Metro 2 is not necessary, and I certainly hope that the SRL will not continue to be built. First, focus on these rail extensions to connect these isolated suburbs.
Doncaster rail would realistically be feasible if this gets built. I would love a Doncaster station, but the Clifton hill to Jollimont section is nearly approaching capacity, Doncaster trains would push it above capacity even with CBTC signalling. (Doncaster rail is also very unlikely to happen due to the north east project, where Doncaster area will be served by BRT to the city, and if stage 2 of the SRL gets built, that a SRL Doncaster station.)
Doncaster rail requires metro 2 to be feasible. The Rowville line requires quadruplication of the Dandenong line, which for now is (prohibitively) too complicated. Mornington rail isn’t ever going to occur. I understand where you’re coming from, but ultimately, it shouldn’t be a case of “either-or”; we need to be using projects like MM2 or SRL as part of a comprehensive transport network-building effort for the long-term rather than being individual projects competing for funding. Perhaps that’s a little too idealistic but that’s how I look at it.
MELBOURNE is a major international city, but is so third world as no train to our airport. And all rail and car tunnels go through city which creates bottlenecks.
Southern Cross is a good enough substitute. It won't take long to change trains at the City Loop or simply hop on a tram to get to Flinders St. Plus, not everyone needs to go to Flinders St and Melbourne Central anyway. And I actually like the creativeness of utilising Southern Cross and Flagstaff as new interchange stations. The more decentralised the lines are, the better IMO.
Proper “metro” systems (which is what Melbourne is eventually trying to turn its trains into) don’t tend to all interchange at one station, with the exception of a handful of systems like the Hamburg U-Bahn. In reality, it shouldn’t be that big of a deal to bypass flinders street; if you need to get there from the north, you can change at parkville, and if you need to get there from the west, get a tram from southern cross.
@@2_pelicansthey’re putting a tram in as well, and the train goes further than Fisherman’s Bend, increasing the networks capacity in a big way overall and benefitting the west in a massive way. What’s your point?
@@2_pelicans Not that much bigger than Melbourne. It's best to just have both a tram and heavy rail. But maybe leave just one station there, between Southern Cross and Newport? The tram will work well enough for the last mile travel, and you are cutting down significantly on the costs (shorter tunnel, and one less station to build). Do a tram first, then the heavy rail when there are money.
What rubbish. Are you not even aware of the urban renewal plans of this area? Trams are great, yes, but trains are better and should always be considered first.
@@MetroManMelbourne the other comment that you have already agreed with for example. The self spacing tech to increase frequency. Level crossing removal is a great project improving the city. Then circumferential routes. And even high speed rail as a greater priority than this.
The longer they leave it the more expensive it gets.
Expert. Even though it's ahead 1yr....onya champ👍
better planning makes it cheaper than improper planning though
It'll always get more expensive, if they load up infrastructure spending as brain farts rather than a properly planned infrastructure pipeline of projects that keeps equipment, personnel within Victoria.
@@СлаваССС-м4с wrong project champ 👍
@@awwghh563 watch the video again. Pay attention to what he says. Don't just look at the visual.
They should just extend the weribee line to Wyndham Vale. It would only need 500 metres of rail and then electrification. It would be such a quick low cost project but would improve connectivity for Werribee and the south west so much.
Now we are talking... you right here have more brain than the entire Jacinta Allen & Dan Andrews government.., Waste of money all of them are
This should definitely be done as a separate project well before MM2
@@joebanks3838wow you think the LNP could organise any rail projects? Or want to? Ha!
Agreed plus a new train station at Black Forest Road. This would help overcrowding on the busy Wyndham Vale and Tarneit vline services. In the short term you could also implement high capacity signalling between Flinders Street and Newport West to allow even some Geelong services through here, as level crossings will be removed on the Werrribee line. This would make Tarneit and Wyndham Vale more of a stand alone line, given their high patronage until electrification is done.
@@joebanks3838 literally no one asked for your opinion
As a Mernda line user I approve of the MT2
What station lil bro
@joshrouch Mernda, 'lil bro'
@@Joshontherails Lil bro that sucks my local is bell so its not too long of a ride lol
As a Werribee line user i approve of the MT2
@@joshrouch Lilbro sicks his local is bell so the morning and evening express services don't stop there meaning lower frequencies.
As a Mernda line user (I get on at South Morang station), I highly approve of this project. Bring it on MT2
Skipping Newport like South Yarra would be so short-sighted. Im suprised they're not planning on skipping Clifton Hill!
While I disagree with the omission of south yarra, I’m not sure it’s worth adding a very expensive station (up to $1 billion) for the benefit of connecting to an (already very quiet) 3-station branch line
Metro 2 needs to happen before capacity becomes an issue, rather than waiting until it is. Sadly, with SRL and demand for an airport rail link, I dont see this ever being built.
Welcome back sir.
I just hope one day it DOES get built.
⚠The latest plan involves the use of Donkeys which will operate after hours to relieve the congestion. The expected date of completion is 2088 🇦🇺
Do a video on Outer Metropolitan Ring.
Will do
It would be expensive, but so is the north-east road link that is currently under construction, and which is only going to induce more traffic.
It will be good for cross town trucking, but we need to go hard on trains to beat the induced demand for cars journeys!
@@k0mm4nd3r_k3n Yes, you're right about the trucking. I should have mentioned that. My comment was referring to cars.
More people use cars. Please get over it. And the east west link is privately funded and users pay full cost to use it. They don’t on railways.
@@xr6lad most roads arent toll roads and hence arent paid for by car users, they are instead paid for by your taxes whether you drive a car or not
One group who would really benefit from this tunnel are Geelong-Melbourne commuters, who could probably save a good 10-20 minutes with a more direct route through Werribee and the tunnel as opposed to winding up through Sunshine and down again.
Unfortunately, setting the tunnel up for those people will lead to additional expenses on the project -- since the Geelong line isn't currently electrified and diesel trains shouldn't go through metro tunnels, you would need to either electrify the line to Geelong, build bimodal trains that can use electric power through the city and diesel on the unelectrified lines, or set up timed transfers with cross-platform interchanging at Werribee.
Good video! Please consider making a video about the concept line called Melbourne Metro 3. That concept was proposed to incorporate a Doncaster line and Airport rail via a new tunnel under Bourke St in the CBD with new Platforms at Southern Cross, Parliament and a new station under Bourke St Mall.
I've got that planned for some time in the near future - I think that plan is the next logical expansion of the rail network after MM2.
@ I agree. Ideally MM2 would have been started now instead of the SRL. With the MM1 almost finished and the resources moving away from that project it would have been logical to have them move onto MM2 projects.
i’m surprised that there aren’t 2 stations between Parkville and Clifton Hill - would make so much sense to have 2; Fitzroy between Rathdowne and Brunswick Streets, and Collingwood between Smith and Wellington Streets, renaming the current Collingwood station to Abbotsford
I completely agree
Ultimately it would be too expensive to build two underground stations so close to each other, each with 210m platforms. It would be nice though
Not much of a walk or bus between the two stops
I'd have one in Carlton between Swanston, and Lygon Sts. & Fitzroy between Brunswick and Smith Sts.
Modern metro/train developments in Sydney and Melbourne tend to favour fewer overall stops, which gets closer to express speeds on a simple timetable. With the area already well covered by high quality trams, I think one good interchange would strike a good balance between accessibility and through traffic. Some proposals don't have any station between Parkville and Clifton Hill, which is really worrying.
The Melbourne metro 2 from Clifton Hill to Newport via Spencer St makes sense. It hopefully then allows the potential for a line to Doncaster and maybe further to terminate at Donvale (Springvale Road)
line to doncaster is no go now, after all there will be dedicated bus interchange at bottom of hill next to freeway, dedicated bus lines on eastern freeway and down hoddle st. If planned well will make a quick trip and with progress probably electric buses.
I wish they’d done this instead of the suburban rail loop. It seems more useful.
They're both smart ideas. Melbourne does need a non-radial line like many comparably sized cities already have. But you're right. This should've been given priority. The SRL is clearly politically driven in order to win over votes in the more historically conservative leaning eastern suburbs.
@@eddielong8663Yeah, especially with work from home radial networks could become increasingly inefficient. I wish both could be done by stopping the subsidisation of car infrastructure .
I feel like a fair bit of the line could be constructed using cut-and-cover which would offset a bit of the cost. There really isn't much in Fishermans Bend to get in the way (Aside from the West Gate of course) and the recent proposed alignment seems to go underneath Fenrell St anyway. For that reason I am also partial to the alignment underneath Alexandra Parade, as it is wide enough to allow for cut-and-cover without it being prohibitively disruptive.
Metro 2 is back on the rails
Not really because SRL is sucking up everything that should be allocated to more useful transit projects like BRT, MM2, city loop reconfiguration, airport rail, Electrification of interurban regional Victoria. And the government will soon have to choose between retaining most of our trams or SRL. (i’d pick trams any day of the week). Or alternatively we could rip up most if not all of our regional rail lines to free up money for the SRL.
@@Merri-bekRailfan ZYes
@@tomhenry6440 not really because SRL will drain the budget of every other transit project that could be infinitely better like electrification of regional Victoria, airport rail, electrification out to certain places like Wallan, Wyndham Vale and Melton as well as the reopening of some regional lines which most certainly won’t happen due to the SRL and other Melbourne-based projects repeatedly taking priority over anything outside Melbourne gets left in the dust (Ignoring regional rail revival).
@merri-bekRailfan I get where you're coming from but I think people overestimate the impact SRL will have on finances - it will probably only be ~$30 billion for stage 1 spread over a decade's worth of budgets - amounting to about $3-4bn/year. There will definitely be room for other projects, the limiting factor will be construction capability imo, but projects like MM2 may need to be slowed it should be said
@@MetroManMelbourne well, the feds turned off the money tap. And several new sources including the ABC reported that the SRL is currently sitting at 200 million over budget
2:05 - the suburb that dare not speak its name
What's 20B compared to the 100+B price tag on the outer loop? Seems cheap and much more useful
With how much infrastructure projects now costs, especially the debacle of the suburban rail loop, i strongly doubt politicians will put their names on the line to approve a project like this.
Option 2 through Fitzroy is better imo, more developable land around the proposed station, as well as the Gasworks
melbourne metro three when - south yarra to footscray via east end and docklands and west melbourne
The "official" (I use that word lightly) melbourne metro 3 proposal is from the Airport to Doncaster via Keilor and the CBD, something I need to make a video on at some point
Ia there enough demand for the west/south end to justify it's own tunnel? Whats the maximum expected frequency?
How many more services per hour could the lines that remain on the City Loop get with both Metro 1 & 2 complete?
Essentially, with both Metro 1 and 2 complete, the network would have been de-interlined, going from 4 different "groups" (Burnley/Caulfield/Northern/Clifton Hill) each with 2-5 branches running into 4 loop tunnels, to a whole bunch of different lines which would largely be independent of each other - Sunbury/Airport-Cranbourne/Pakenham, Wyndham Vale-Mernda/Wollert, Craigieburn-Frankston, Upfield-Glen Waverley/Alamein, Laverton/Williamstown-Sandringham, Belgrave/Lilydale-City Loop, Hurstbridge-City Loop. Every one of these lines could run at the maximum line capacity (usually 24tph), so in effect, we would be able to add probably well more than a hundred trains per hour into the city during peak hours, amounting to probably an extra 200-300,000 riders/hour.
I've always wondered, just what that bend between the Merri and Rushall stations was.
It looked out of place, as the Mernda train takes that long wide turn.
It was a rail line?
The reason behind that is that there was originally the "inner circle line" that turned west, and today's curve wasn't used by most trains.
@MetroManMelbourne oh thanks for that.
I remember my Dad talking about the inner line. (He was from Clifton Hill)
But like most boys, I didn't pay enough attention to the details of his story.
Apparently there's a big tunnel underneath the Westgate bridge not big enough to put two cars but big enough one card
G'day MetroManMelbourne!
Hopefully they will get the airport rail line done first.
why? how many times a year do you travel to the airport as opposed to people going to work 200+ days a year
@fireman1468 Yeah and people don't work at the airport? The airport is a major employment centre. 18000 work there.
I would like to some overdue uogrades which are cheaper and will be faster to build to be done first. For example Upfield duplication and extension to Roxburgh Park, Rowville rail, major bus reform and Western Rail Plan.
Rowville rail is a surprisingly complicated project that probably requires quadruplication of the Dandenong line (expensive) - otherwise I tend to agree
@MetroManMelbourne potentially though Rowville trains could stop all stations from Caulfield as happens now with all East Pakenham and Cranbourne trains. Maybe Rowville trains could take the path of existing Westall short train services. Rowville would primarily be skyrail down North Road which I think would reduce the cost.
@@SimonsHouseofEntertainment the issue is that the corridor doesn't have enough capacity, even with CBTC signalling - it's not to do with express running.
@@MetroManMelbourne Yes, that is the problem. The best way to Rowville is to extend the Glen Waverley Line which is mainly self contained
This would work well but I can’t help but wonder if extending electrification further out to our outer suburbs would help more than this? As the inner suburbs are increasingly more expensive to live in we are seeing people moving out further, past Wallan, melton, Whittlesea ect. Having usable train lines out there would massively decrease congestion on our roads. I reckon this should be prioritised as Melbourne is growing by the day and these are only served by Vline. This is coming from someone who uses the Mernda line
If only they had included this electrification in the metro tunnel and didn’t kill it off so they can turn trains back at west Footscray
That's something that's planned regardless of this project.
@rtyt2007 They could electrify the line to Traralgon, couldn't they Jeff? An LNP future project?
It would be great to see built, eventually.
Why not use the boring machine beimg used for the NELink? It would be wide enough to allow 4 tracks.
tunnelling for railways is very different to tunnelling for roadways
the Fishermans Bend TOD would be huge, but i think light rail can handle it for now, SRL, Airport Rail, and Doncaster are still more urgent projects because of the distance, which our heavy rail is better suited to handle. the Southbank connection itself is good, finally bringing back the scale of service that hasn't existed since the very start of Steam rail service, it just won't contribute a whole lot to projects like SRL.
25-30 billion dollars is still a lot less than some insane road expansions, but I do think there could be some smaller scale improvements made across the network with much better value for money. Off peak frequencies are really what needs to improve, and that is largely possible with existing infrastructure and rolling stock.
I suspect those off peak / weekend improvements will happen not too far in the future, perhaps even as soon as the opening of the metro tunnel
@@MetroManMelbourne I think they'll definitely improve off peak frequency when the Metro Tunnel opens, and claim it as one of the project benefits
The Geelong VLine train can go through this, without all the stops. Just using the rails. Metro trains can wait as it passes as Vliners pay more and have further to travel. Not to mention the western suburbs give everyone a headache.
Given the number of passengers in your in carriage shots in this video, there doesn't seem to be much demand for a capacity upgrade.
I tend not to film on busy trains for privacy reasons; the footage from this video is the exception rather than the rule, and was also taken on a different line and on a counter-peak train (away from the city during the morning) that ran mostly express.
Btw in the graphic of Fishermans Bend, the arrow should be pointing slightly further north as you can see where the new Turner St with tram line exists (look at the left of the graphic to see the tram itself).
This is an excellent video, where did you find all the alignment option maps? I have a feeling if they built a Newport West station it would not have cross-platform transfers and would instead be up/down MM2 up/down Altona platforms. And I also think they will build a Fitzroy station on Alexandra Pde as there is enough room in the median to avoid needing to shutdown the road, like they would have to do for Johnston St.
It's an interesting thought that the existing alignment could be kept for MCG or special services, I wonder how they would fit in a trenched (or underground) Merri station with tracks that remain above ground, or would they need to have some ramps south of the underground Clifton Hill platforms to get back to the current alignment?
The alignment option maps are linked in the description (labelled "2017 report" and "2024 alignment").
I wouldn't be surprised if they built a station on Alexandra Parade - personally though, I think the ideal outcome would be a cut-and-cover line along Johnston St, which would be disruptive sure but would be cheaper and would avoid requiring passengers to go down 5 storeys to get on the train (which adds a lot of travel time).
For the existing alignment, I suspect that they would simply keep a single track of the two connecting from the tunnel portal near Merri to Clifton Hill, not linked to MM2 anywhere.
Mm2 would remove the Rushall Curve, so terrible project 😂
Metro 2 should continue into the east to Doncaster, the Eastern Freeway was built with an extra-wide median strip precisely to provide a right of way for a Doncaster Railway
drive along eastern freeway, see what's happening. Median strip is getting smaller and smaller
They definitely need the interchange at Newport! Do they realise how many people travel back and forth between the Werribee and Footscray?! Or Werribee to the Williamstown area for the beach?
The Laverton trains (via the altona loop) connects at two separate stations on the line. A new station at 'south newport' and laverton? So it still allows connections, minus a direct connection to Williamstown
As stated in the video - connections from Werribee and the Altona loop to both Footscray and MM2 will be very easy with a Newport South station. PTV has stated in the past that there aren’t enough people travelling from Williamstown to justify building an expensive new underground Newport station, at least initially. You can read the report in the description if you would like.
@@MetroManMelbourne oh I can understand that, fully on board with it, I’m just concerned that the position of Newport South could either pseudo fix this problem in the meantime, or not. Bridging the gap to allow for a somewhat useful connection and for the development to get a move on in the meantime, and the transport use in the area to start changing. If they design it in a way that is walking distance to Newport at one end (a little bit town hall/flinders street like, but admittedly with probably a little more distance, think London Underground connections) and has decent, clear walking connections, maybe pedestrian bridges at points etc, it could allow for the connection to exist in a useful but not ideal form in the meantime, without the expensive underground build. Then as density builds in the area and trips increase, any future underground thing they do to increase the efficiency of the transfer could be justified by demand, foot traffic between the stations etc.
My original comment admittedly gave absolutely none of this nuance though, my bad 🤦🏻😂 but yeah, talking about a Newport connection currently, I’m more talking about them hopefully positioning Newport South well, rather than going straight in with an underground build. Heck, if they position Newport South well enough, they could probably get away without an underground station/platforms unless the area develops in a way similar to the North Melbourne/Arden plans, or as some sort of pseudo extension of the Fishermen’s Bend development well off in the future.
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I can’t help but think it would be better routed via Southbank with a station at balston st and city rd and than a new station at the Federation square carpark before than shooting up to Fitzroy.
The major issue with that is the Yarra - a station in Southbank would need to be very deep underground (and thus expensive) to cross the Yarra River, and may need to be on a gradient. The current alignment leaves some 600m at the shortest from a station to the river vs. more like 50m for a fed square station. Not impossible (as the Metro Tunnel proves) but not cheap
Fitzroy and Merri don't need a new station. This should go under Collingwood and then head out to Doncaster
Metro tunnel 2 > Suburban Rail Loop.
I think a much better investment is new northwest line with a train station at highpoint shopping center and the Maribrynong defence site.
The western end of the project should incorporate the Altona Loop, removing it from the Werribee line and duplicating the tracks at the same time, and at least one new station in Point Cook which continues to expand south without adequate public transport infrastructure.
The project specifically avoids the Altona Loop to allow it to be separated from the rest of the Werribee line, as it is a slower route, and the section through Altona would be difficult to duplicate thereby impacting on reliability. Still, a line to Point Cook should be examined eventually.
How long would this underground line be?
The one that was estimated at 7 billion at some point, that could probably end up costing 25 billion?
That was interesting!
Greetings from Paris.
It will be approximately 20km long in full.
T’es français? Je parle un peu de français.
They need to construct an east-west line that goes from Derrimut to Doncaster.
Doncaster Park&Ride to Clifton Hill and merge to existing line should be the one to construct due to high demand and practicality. Unfortunately the ridiculous east-north link has killed this line.
a tram line branching off the port line then going along howe parade then a loop through the bend then back towards the cbd is a better idea. curves on a train line as was shown on the map of fishermans bend just slows the journey for everyone else.
This isn’t about a train line for fisherman’s bend, at its heart; it’s about segregating train lines, something we will eventually need to do, it’s just convenient that it can run through fisherman’s bend. Even with the curves, it will still probably take 5-10 mins off the Newport to city travel time.
@@MetroManMelbourne , melbourne already has a train speed problem. speed of service is what brings customers. observe the success of v/locity services. unless there is a truly good reason for installing curves there shouldnt be curves. theres not likely to be much buried beneath the ground of fishermans bend that needs avoiding.
Newport West station makes much more sense than the old "Paisley" Station, a few blocks along the Geelong line
why? Paisley would service Altona North and the Miller's Junction shopping precinct.
@@fireman1468 It would have to be either Newport west or Paisely, they wouldn't have both. They are too close in proximity to each other. I see your logic, it's better to have something than nothing.
i dont understand why they need to have new stations at newport and southern cross. surely all we need is stairs going down to some underground platforms, wouldnt that simplify it?
you mean to a line that doesn't exist yet?
It's a branding exercise. "We're building a new station" sounds better than "We're adding new platforms". That's why the Metro 1 CBD stations are called State Library and Town Hall even though they're functionally extensions of Central and Flinders St.
> "[Metro 2] will connect Fitzroy to the rail network for the first time"
Fun bit of trivia the old Fitzroy station was in Fitzroy North/North Fitzroy, though both in the old city of Fitzroy. Rushall station is still in Fitzroy North today.
Can we just a train to the airport????
The problem is that the white elephant suburban rail loop is sucking up all the funds that should be going into useful projects.
Why?
This is a brilliant idea. It should have been done 40 years ago! The west would have been a logical growth area as it is so close as the crow flies. Also, this would relieve some traffic problems on the Westgate Bridge. Surely this is worth it
A station box shell should have been built at South Yarra.
Metro II should be a quad tunnel, going straight down Elizabeth Street.
Stops to the north Vic Market (between Mel-b’n Cnt, and the Vic Market, Parkville, (then turn east under Mel-b’n Uni, 'til it reaches Elgin St) Carlton (between Mel-b’n Uni & Lygon St), Fitzroy (between Brunswick and Smith Sts), Vic Park (then skyrail), Chandler Hwy, Bourke Rd, Bulleen Rd, Greythorn, Doncaster SC, Victoria St, Tunstall Sq. Donvale Line
Bulleen Rd, Bulleen Plaza, Feather Top (Lwr Templestowe), Templestowe (Templestowe shops, or High St), The Pines SC, Warrandyte (Warrandyte Line)
Elizabeth st would be between Flinders & Collins Sts.
Stops to the south west (skyrail along old Port Mel-b’n line) Montague St (then tunnel under Williamstown Rd), Graham St (turning north west) Salmon St, Newport to Werribee (Wyndham Vale?)
Stops to the south (skyrail along old StKilda Line) South Mel-b’n, Albert Park, Middle Park, StKilda (then tunnel under Grey and Inkerman Sts) StKilda Rd, Balaclava, Ripponlea, Elsternwick, Gardenvale (turn east tunnel under North Rd), Caulfield South, Ormond, Bentleigh East, Huntingdale, Monash Uni, Mulgrave, Jells Rd, Rowville (Rowville Line)
Extend Sandringham Line via tunnel Black Rock, Mentone, Morrabbin Airport (skyrail & ground lvl) Dingley Village, Springvale South, Keysborough, Dandenong South (Dandenong South Line)
Mernda Line (and Wollert Line) would follow the old inner circle line Stops at Fitzroy North, Carlton North, (joining Upfield (Wallen?) Line) Mel-b’n Zoo, Children's Hospital, (joining at Parkville)
I like your ambition, but I feel this might be a little unrealistic…
In PT, we need enough people to say this is the minimum, and we might get half.
Shortly the cost makes it much more required to start now because that cost will only ever go up
Surely
I don't get why really any of it needs to be underground except for the bit under the CBD.
there's no corridor for it to utilise
The issues with running it overground are:
1. It would require a bridge as tall as the west gate bridge to cross the west end of the yarra - incredibly expensive (maybe even more so than a tunnel)
2. Even if you ran it overground through fisherman’s bend, it then still needs to run very deep to cross the yarra river near the city, so you would probably require the sandridge station area to be tunnelled anyway.
3. There’s no surface alignment for it to follow through Fitzroy without demolishing many buildings (more expensive than a cut-and-cover tunnel)
@@MetroManMelbourne that's fair enough. Thanks for the perspective!
@@Soccera0 real underground is the best in urban areas. The european metro's are amazing
Should be light rail from Southern Cross to Fishermans bend
This is slightly off topic, but flagstaff gardens made me think, what is it with Australian cities and naming every platfroms at a station a different thing? Why would you have flagstaff and flagstaff gardens instead of just flagstaff? Town hall and flinders street? Library and melbourne central? Don't even get me started on hunter street in syndey
Drives me insane.
I suspect it’s just one or two planners somewhere who’ve mandated it in government transport policy. It’s completely stupid, I agree
Wasn't it emergency services who demanded the new bits be named something different?
No Melbourne Metro 2 line, no Doncaster line.
A shame Metro 1 never connected to South Yarra
The Victorian Government should take planning powers off the councils and upzone areas around stations and put in place land taxes to account for this increase in this value
They’ve recently finally started doing that
Let’s build an airport rail first. As much as I love this project. Melbourne desperately needs airport rail before anything else is done.
Interesting how this is using essentially a part of what the Liberals proposed over a decade ago and it was slammed (Fisherman's Bend section). With the state's finances, this will be a difficult sell.
The Liberals proposed re-routing the metro tunnel via south Melbourne and on to Southern Cross - almost universally recognised as a poor plan. It's important to recognise that they did nothing to start that project.
@@user-wy4ci7yj6b Only in power for 4 years. Governments (of any flavour) only get started on big projects in their late second and third terms, unfortunately.
it's not really at all the same proposal. That proposal was, frankly, a half-arse of MM1 and only barely served the fishermans bend region, whereas this makes more sense from a long-term network planning point of view in terms of separating branch lines
If the Liberals had gone ahead with the Metro Tunnel, we would be using it by now. Four wasted years! Also Metro 2 tunnelling may have been started. Liberals can't be trusted with public transport projects. They only think of their developer mates instead of what is good for the general population.
The Fishermans bend to Parkvile section should be heavily private funded by qlum from Melbpurne uni as that is essentially there as a uni shuttle between campuses, the Newport extension is essential, we need to have better connection to the west that doesnt go up and around, electrifyong it all the way to Geelong may also be somethinh that may need to be cut, you cannpt run diesel on yhe tunnels, but there was never anybissues with intervhanging at werribee so we can just go back to running a seperate Geelong to Werribee service to slot between the wyndham service, hiwever what I really really want to see if a light rail run down palmers and citting accross to derimit
Metro 2 and Doncaster line would be better than the orbital rail, it's cost prohibits so many other necessary infrastructure projects
What rot! Newport is a major interchange for drivers and a shunting area so there needs to be a stop there.
Even if it is Newport they won't be shunting from underground...... Drivers can get to anywhere on the network.
Meanwhile, China has 159,000 km of railways and 45,000 kilometres of high speed rail, using mostly iron from Australia
MMT would be a much better use of resources and money than the SRL
Bro imma be 50 when this starts construction
They only have funding to draw lines on maps. They will update the drawings every 5 years. You can view these maps while travelling on the existing lines lines built 50+ years ago. 😂
Munnel 2 electric boogaloo
Maybe you should talk about crap our timetable is for metro and vline, vline always getting caught behind metro on the pakenham line and something can be done
Unfortunately very little can be done about that specific issue without adding extra tracks to the Dandenong line
At a public meeting in Carnegie for the level crossing removal, the authority was asked about at least providing provision for 4 tracks. The LXR said, we are a level crossing removal authority, not a rail planning body.
@@blueycarlton it is possible to let 25 mins so vline doesn’t get stuck behind metro, so you run 2 Cranbourne trains after that and then after the vline passes 2 pakenham train and even a 3rd in peak,
build airport link first. No one will use suburban loop phase 1
This needs to be prioritised over SRL!
I don't like this frame of mind. Realistically, both SRL and MM2 should be built at some point; we should be considering the two as part of a broader network-building effort rather than competing projects.
@ huh? They gave prioritised SRL because it has commenced construction? All I’m saying is MM2 is a shorter build and should have been prioritised.
I doubt I can see that happen in my lifetime
"Newport West" - bring back "Paisley" !!!
The “Metro” branding of MM1 and 2 are very irksome. They aren’t metros like Sydney Metro (or what SRL will be). They’re Melbourne’s Crossrail.
Metro literally just means urban rail, you donk
Not going to happen. All the funds have been channeled to the SRL
As country victorian why is my taxes paying for an of this, when the stolen monies from our failing roads
I'd actually like to see the complete MM2 finished before SRL North starts. The bottlenecks MM2 eliminates are bad now and will be completely swamped within 10 years. The transport benefits of SRL could be achieved in the short term with bus infrastructure and service investment and SRL North was never as valuable from an up-zoning and density perspective as SRL East. Not to mention more track pairs to the west should probably be Melbourne's top priority at the moment.
city loop was not the first underground rail tunnel...
In Melbourne?
@@Low760no
rail tunnels existed before the city loop
If you look at the course of this system it is absolutely going nowhere. What does it serve the ports receive all incoming goods? Where do those goods go to? There? Won’t be many of them going down this road. This reminds me of supplying electricity to China through the Philippines Now that’s a big waste of money a huge waste of money but let’s face it. If you’re giving kickbacks to people the bigger the bill the better the kickback this government couldn’t run a bath as an economist and a person who has written law in this country that the federal police use 247 to charge your credit card from fraud from down under where they never stick to any law
I hope this doesn't happen; other projects need to be built. The Cranbourne line needs to be extended to Clyde, the Doncaster rail needs to happen, and the Rowville and Mornington rail - like many other important proposals. Metro 2 is not necessary, and I certainly hope that the SRL will not continue to be built. First, focus on these rail extensions to connect these isolated suburbs.
Doncaster rail would realistically be feasible if this gets built. I would love a Doncaster station, but the Clifton hill to Jollimont section is nearly approaching capacity, Doncaster trains would push it above capacity even with CBTC signalling.
(Doncaster rail is also very unlikely to happen due to the north east project, where Doncaster area will be served by BRT to the city, and if stage 2 of the SRL gets built, that a SRL Doncaster station.)
Doncaster rail requires metro 2 to be feasible. The Rowville line requires quadruplication of the Dandenong line, which for now is (prohibitively) too complicated. Mornington rail isn’t ever going to occur.
I understand where you’re coming from, but ultimately, it shouldn’t be a case of “either-or”; we need to be using projects like MM2 or SRL as part of a comprehensive transport network-building effort for the long-term rather than being individual projects competing for funding. Perhaps that’s a little too idealistic but that’s how I look at it.
@@MetroManMelbourne Maybe MM2 should head there then, instead of already well-served locations?
We should get the Chinese to tender for the project. They are bloody cheap!
"You'll be dead!"
MELBOURNE is a major international city, but is so third world as no train to our airport.
And all rail and car tunnels go through city which creates bottlenecks.
Metro Rail Tunnel 👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎 NOT NEEDED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don’t like how it won’t stop at flinders street
Southern Cross is a good enough substitute. It won't take long to change trains at the City Loop or simply hop on a tram to get to Flinders St. Plus, not everyone needs to go to Flinders St and Melbourne Central anyway. And I actually like the creativeness of utilising Southern Cross and Flagstaff as new interchange stations. The more decentralised the lines are, the better IMO.
Proper “metro” systems (which is what Melbourne is eventually trying to turn its trains into) don’t tend to all interchange at one station, with the exception of a handful of systems like the Hamburg U-Bahn. In reality, it shouldn’t be that big of a deal to bypass flinders street; if you need to get there from the north, you can change at parkville, and if you need to get there from the west, get a tram from southern cross.
This will never happen, just like the SRL West. Melbourne's western suburbs are a liability.
People can get paid up to $8000 a week On these projects. Is that how you want your money spent?
fishers bend, will benefit from light rail more than heavy rail. more stops closer to home. heavy rail is not suited to small inner city cities.
Yep cause cities like New York (incredibly dense) definitely don't use heavy rail very effectively for short distances...
you understand how big new York is right?
@@2_pelicansthey’re putting a tram in as well, and the train goes further than Fisherman’s Bend, increasing the networks capacity in a big way overall and benefitting the west in a massive way. What’s your point?
@@2_pelicans Not that much bigger than Melbourne.
It's best to just have both a tram and heavy rail. But maybe leave just one station there, between Southern Cross and Newport? The tram will work well enough for the last mile travel, and you are cutting down significantly on the costs (shorter tunnel, and one less station to build). Do a tram first, then the heavy rail when there are money.
What rubbish. Are you not even aware of the urban renewal plans of this area? Trams are great, yes, but trains are better and should always be considered first.
This proposal feels like a massive waste of money and time when there are so many things we need more and would cost less.
Like what?
@@Snoop_Dugg SRL😐😐🫥
@Cassandra03 elaborate?
@@MetroManMelbourne the other comment that you have already agreed with for example. The self spacing tech to increase frequency. Level crossing removal is a great project improving the city. Then circumferential routes. And even high speed rail as a greater priority than this.
@@MetroManMelbourne obviously only the first three would be cheaper
What a waste of $300 billion
Get the Chinese to build it. Much cheaper.