I initially considered buying small electric drum to learn playing at home, but seeing this I understood why I'll never be a good drummer. But I can always be a mediocre drummer and have fun at home :D But this guy... Epic.
Ha ha, absolutely. I've got a degree in Maths and have been a drummer for 30 years+, yet I ended up kicking my laptop across the fucking room halfway through this. But I did destroy it in 9/8, playing quarter-note paradiddles, so it wasn't all bad!! However my brain continues to melt and is starting to drip through my nose.
As a drummer who has always played ambidextrously and can handle pretty much any complex fusion part, I confirm that this set of cross-cluster-f'd patterns cannot be played without the patented MarcoMinneman(TM) mind implant & dynamic extremity controller. ;-)
+Stephen Bove LOL'd. I love Marco but sometimes his stuff is more like a new type of rubix cube, it's challenging and impressive but that'd doesn't earn it a spot in a band.
+Boris Boslul Speaking of these two drummers, did you know that Dream Theater originally chose Marco for the spot, but he actually declined the offer knowing that DT is such a demanding and time-consuming band, and wanted to maintain his other proyects, leading the guys to choose their second best option, Mangini.
Love his hand signals. He respects that you've understood his explanation then proceeds to demonstrate so can hear how it sounds together. Both an exhibition of skill but respectful enough to be informative. No ego here, just talent and sincere want to teach!
Ok, this guy is an alien, no doubt about it! I'm a drummer, been playing for the last 35 years, seen all drummers of all kinds, and this guy has the most incredible 4 way coordination of any of them!!
Insane, he's so good, even he has trouble explaining what he's at! So much technique, feel and joie de vivre...all mixed in with a little va va voom! You have to love Marco.
That's not funny. That's not funny at all. That's fucking horrifying, how can anyone reach this level on an instrument and *still* have time to shred?!
Two years since my last comment. I figured it out! Marco is still a genius and I still suck. A multi faceted drum lesson that stands the test of time! Love you Marco!
You are like a freaking science project. How in the world do you play a ridiculously smooth rhythm, (NOT an easy one I might add...) AND give a lesson at the same time?? I am a fan. I always have been. I found your "Jackhammer" performance on UA-cam, then the rest is history. I saw you in Dallas a couple of months ago with The Aristocrats, and I was very impressed. Very inspiring, and discouraging at the same time. Not positive I could achieve this ability in a lifetime.
Watching this made my jaw legitimately drop for the first time in my life, Minnemann is just insane....having like four or five parts of the brain work with so much coordination AND sophistication.
At 2:48 he's like: You see how it's done? No, Marco, we don't. We are just mere mortals and not worthy to breathe in the air that has been moved by your drumskins.
Mr. Minnemann u r one bad kat behind a drum set. i probably will never achieve u're ability of playing, but thank u so much for being u, and sharing u're gift of music with the rest of us. u're instructional dvd "and many others" had been a great influence to me
i love how you can explain what you are playing, and say it in a way that you can easily understand what you are trying to teach out :) You are one of mine favortie drummers and always will be! Thx.
In my teens I thought I was a pretty decent drummer and then I went to see Simon Phillips at a clinic in the late 80's...I walked out of there thinking I had absolutely no idea what I was doing. Marco lives in the same statosphere as Simon. Just unbelievable. It's so much fun watching guys at this level drum.
Marco I hope you read this, I loved watching your Dream Theater audition (just saw it today, I know years later) and while I had heard of you before, never really dug into your music. Really astounding level of skill and enjoyment, topped off with videos like this where you give the knowledge away. Bravo and many thanks for all your hard work and dedication to the craft, and best wishes for your continued success!
Most useful videos you'd never use in real life: "How to start a fire with a toothbrush while levitating over the Eiffel tower", "how to eat burrito with your butt while singing Zimbabwe anthem" and finally "9-tuplet Pyramid". Many more on Thomas Lang's and Marco's channels))
+Carlos Hurworth I definitely do understand what he is doing... he presents it all quite clearly. It's the execution that's the most important part. Merely understanding it in theory does not make my limbs be able to do it without my head getting absolutely confused in the middle of attempting it.
Marco, thank you for the explanation but it's of no use. Geniuses can't explain well to us mortals what they have in their brain. So just play and dazzle us with your phenomenal world-class drumming. You're a pleasure to watch and listen to! Cheers from Montréal, Québec.
Absolute brilliance and probably the most humble person about his otherworldly skills. I wonder if Marco and Virgil Donati have ever done a drum duet. I'd love to see that, even if I only understand about 5% of what is being done here.
cuz ringo is only famous because of his band- hes the reason most drummer jokes (about drummers not being real musicians) were written. marco could outplay him with a single limb.
It is musicians like yourself Marco that give me nightmares where I pat my head and rub my tummy in strange rhythms whilst simulating tap dancing in fundamentally upsetting ostinati. I wake up at a peak where this unresolving non-euclidean pyramid accelerates towards infinituplets. Good job too because the laws of physics infer that my heads would be aflame by this point.
What can one say about Marco Minneman? An absolute genius, an inspiration, and an all around pleasant human being! I have met Marco twice at clinics in Ottawa, Canada, and he is always the coolest ma'fucka in the room! You make this look average. I understand what's going on, and to some degree, I am familiar with the practice involved to do this, but sticking it out and conquering the drums like you have is a whole other skill set. You deserve whatever success comes your way MM! Sick chops!!
Total independence! Genius! And definitely he is much more musical than Mangini who is also well-known specialist in playing different polyrhythmic pieces. Though... I've never heard such difficult combination before. That's almost unreal but here it is!... Actually some time ago I was very interested in playing different polyrhythmic exercises. My friends told me 'bout some "virtuoso" who played triplets with his left hand and 5tuplets with his right hand, so they all said this was almost impossible unless he was a robot... I was wondering whether this was possible to play that and started to play sixteenth with my right hand and triplets with my left hand, then vice versa ... and it took me one day to shift to the necessary triplets/ 5tuplets rhythm. Then it took me several days to add 8th notes on the bass drum and 4th notes on hi-hat... My teacher and my bandmates were very impressed with it, so I thought I was a polyrhythmic drummer with good 4-way independence.... Now we all can see, what the REAL INDEPENDENCE is. Bravo, Marco!!!!!
Marco's brain on drums. Way too much time, literally, on his hands. Very entertaining, thank you Marco. I like practicing from your 2nd book, very mind-expanding concepts.
Being a drummer myself for 40 years, it's almost so you wanna lay down and quit seeing this man play. It's like "Ooook, I thought I could play this instrument....". Like Salieri & Mozart in Amadeus😄
at one point I swear he says “your left side is playing this and your right side is playing that and your free side is playing ....” WTF, he has 3 sides? no wonder he’s so good
Joking aside he was trying to say that first he plays the nine on the right and then he moves it to the left, and whichever side isn't currently playing the ostinato is left to solo over it. So at the start he's playing the nine on the toms with his right while soloing with his left then moves the nine to the left on the gong drum and hi-hat to start soloing with the right. Then he moves the ostinato to his feet to start layering polymeters on top of it with his hands, because Marco Minnemann.
This is one of the many drum patterns that makes more sense hearing and feeling it than ever trying to explain it verbally ...sometimes my guitarist will describe to me the part he's about to show me in terms of time sig variations and counts etc...before he just lets me hear the dopeness of the actual riff.
theres a series of west african rhythms that are in 9 that you would appreciate. Concoba and Koreduga are a couple. you can you tube them. beauty is...its usually played by ensembles of at least 5 poly rhythms for the rhythm to sound somewhat complete. the more the merrier in these cases. thank you for the break down. you rock!
As you all can hear....marco knows exactly what he does, instead of so many other drummers, from A-Z he can write it all out on paper and knows exactly what he does...that's called a "musician". YOU don't have to! Unless...you want to make this kind of music as your "profession".
I saw Marco last year live with the Aristocrats, awesome stuff, he's a moster! I'm so glad I'm not a drummer my head would explode trying learning this! I play guitar (pretty badly, but still!) and I know you can play very difficult stuff on guitar too but the fact a drummer can play 4 different time one for each limb is just insane to me!
It feels like you've got a math PHD and thought this shit's too easy! Let's make it more challenging. Love the lesson! Really well explained. Learnt so much. Thank you Marco!!! Oh and COME TO SINGAPORE AGAIN!!
Let me watch this about 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times to even begin to understand what you are talking about. Regardless, sounds awesome Marco!!!
Hello Jeremy. Thank you for the reply :) I understand what you are saying and also that he plays it in one of his solo's. I was just wondering how something like this would be applied to music.
WOW WOW WOW Y RECONTRA WOW.. QUE HOMBRE PARA MAS IMPRESIONANTE.. MARCO SI EXISTIESE UN DIOS DE LAS PERCUSIONES ESE ERES TU.. NO ESTAS SANO DE LA CABEZA.. COMO PUEDES TOCAR ASI LA BATERIA ERES FABULOSO NO HAY PALABRAS PARA DESCRIBIRTE.. ME INCLINO ANTE EL DIOS DE LA BATERIA..
Literally, in my room shouting out holy shit for 5 minutes, then comes in the rest of my family who think I'm dying at this stage, who proceed to watch the rest of the video and join me in shouting out holy shit.
"Actually it's a 9/16 ostinato pattern which turns into a nine-tuplet over a 4/4." Of course, how stupid of me.
Nick Hajek my exact thought lmaoo
Djenk you know it kind of shifts, 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4. you know?
One of the funniest things I've ever read!!!
😂
His right hand doing triplets, his left hands doing 143/144, or whatever,
and both my hands are pulling my hair out of my head.
I initially considered buying small electric drum to learn playing at home, but seeing this I understood why I'll never be a good drummer.
But I can always be a mediocre drummer and have fun at home :D But this guy... Epic.
4/4 players unite
Ha ha, absolutely. I've got a degree in Maths and have been a drummer for 30 years+, yet I ended up kicking my laptop across the fucking room halfway through this. But I did destroy it in 9/8, playing quarter-note paradiddles, so it wasn't all bad!! However my brain continues to melt and is starting to drip through my nose.
Stop scaring the children, Marco.
Christ hes scaring me
Lol!
As a drummer who has always played ambidextrously and can handle pretty much any complex fusion part, I confirm that this set of cross-cluster-f'd patterns cannot be played without the patented MarcoMinneman(TM) mind implant & dynamic extremity controller. ;-)
+Stephen Bove LOL'd. I love Marco but sometimes his stuff is more like a new type of rubix cube, it's challenging and impressive but that'd doesn't earn it a spot in a band.
+Stephen Bove Alternatively, the MikeMangini mind implant & dynamic extremity controller. But that one's even more ridiculous.
+Boris unfortunately that one now comes with terrible production :P
+Boris Boslul Speaking of these two drummers, did you know that Dream Theater originally chose Marco for the spot, but he actually declined the offer knowing that DT is such a demanding and time-consuming band, and wanted to maintain his other proyects, leading the guys to choose their second best option, Mangini.
driftnick that’s really interesting! Any source for that?
Where am I? Who's the downbeat?
Love his hand signals. He respects that you've understood his explanation then proceeds to demonstrate so can hear how it sounds together. Both an exhibition of skill but respectful enough to be informative. No ego here, just talent and sincere want to teach!
Lost him at 00:01.
lol
Best comment ever!
Ok, this guy is an alien, no doubt about it! I'm a drummer, been playing for the last 35 years, seen all drummers of all kinds, and this guy has the most incredible 4 way coordination of any of them!!
Insane, he's so good, even he has trouble explaining what he's at! So much technique, feel and joie de vivre...all mixed in with a little va va voom! You have to love Marco.
My beer can do that! Here hold me.
I am sincerely grateful to the universe that there are artists like this.
You know what's funny? The fact that he's also a very good guitar player.
That's not funny. That's not funny at all. That's fucking horrifying, how can anyone reach this level on an instrument and *still* have time to shred?!
ouch my head hurts, this is wicked. a drum lesson, sign language, comedy, mind screwing patterns and timing.....shit i cant explain it.
And now i'm looking to buy a bass guitar.
in that case then dont look at victor wooten videos
Drumaier J I did. Sold it already :P
hahaha
witchcraft
Best comment
Two years since my last comment. I figured it out! Marco is still a genius and I still suck. A multi faceted drum lesson that stands the test of time! Love you Marco!
How long did it take you?
If Marco struggles to explain it then you cant play it.
Shaun Luxon haha that made me LOL cuz its so true
Truest true.
lol, is that not the most accurate statement. Marco you truly are the "Yoda"
Mokusjjskhd
ahahahah amazing mate Lol
You are like a freaking science project. How in the world do you play a ridiculously smooth rhythm, (NOT an easy one I might add...) AND give a lesson at the same time?? I am a fan. I always have been. I found your "Jackhammer" performance on UA-cam, then the rest is history. I saw you in Dallas a couple of months ago with The Aristocrats, and I was very impressed. Very inspiring, and discouraging at the same time. Not positive I could achieve this ability in a lifetime.
Watching this made my jaw legitimately drop for the first time in my life, Minnemann is just insane....having like four or five parts of the brain work with so much coordination AND sophistication.
At 2:48 he's like: You see how it's done? No, Marco, we don't. We are just mere mortals and not worthy to breathe in the air that has been moved by your drumskins.
I completely understood that I can't understand. Thank you.
Great lesson! Marco is not only a good performer but also an almost better teacher!
Extreme independence! Absolute genius
I've watched this video so many times and I still can't decide which is more impressive: his masterful playing, or his humility.
did he think that after he explained people would go to their drumkit and go "ahh now I get it!" and play it???? :)
Probably.
=)))) good 1
lol, i dont try to plau it, i want to keep my brain in one piece !
My limbs exploded in confusion and I was left mangled on the floor in a pool of mild depression.
Mr. Minnemann u r one bad kat behind a drum set. i probably will never achieve u're ability of playing, but thank u so much for being u, and sharing u're gift of music with the rest of us. u're instructional dvd "and many others" had been a great influence to me
i love how you can explain what you are playing, and say it in a way that you can easily understand what you are trying to teach out :) You are one of mine favortie drummers and always will be! Thx.
if i'd ever think to switch from guitar to drums this vid would bring me back instantly.
The amount of joy he gets from just explaining something this complicated really goes to show why he is one of the best drummers in the world.
A true music savant,Marco can play the most complex,off the charts stuff,all the while enjoying every second of it!!!YOU SIR ARE THE MAN!!!
In my teens I thought I was a pretty decent drummer and then I went to see Simon Phillips at a clinic in the late 80's...I walked out of there thinking I had absolutely no idea what I was doing. Marco lives in the same statosphere as Simon. Just unbelievable. It's so much fun watching guys at this level drum.
You sir are out of this world. A fan since 2003
Marco I hope you read this, I loved watching your Dream Theater audition (just saw it today, I know years later) and while I had heard of you before, never really dug into your music. Really astounding level of skill and enjoyment, topped off with videos like this where you give the knowledge away. Bravo and many thanks for all your hard work and dedication to the craft, and best wishes for your continued success!
Most useful videos you'd never use in real life: "How to start a fire with a toothbrush while levitating over the Eiffel tower", "how to eat burrito with your butt while singing Zimbabwe anthem" and finally "9-tuplet Pyramid".
Many more on Thomas Lang's and Marco's channels))
zwerdsw
Do u understand the difference between music and technical etudes? Looks like no. :)
saving this for later
This is why Marco is legendary.
One of the most gifted 'Trap Set' Players...of our time.
I refuse to believe anyone knows what he's talking about
+Carlos Hurworth LOL.
just 9 pyramid the 1-2-3-4 7/16 instant ramen tom toms
+Carlos Hurworth I definitely do understand what he is doing... he presents it all quite clearly. It's the execution that's the most important part. Merely understanding it in theory does not make my limbs be able to do it without my head getting absolutely confused in the middle of attempting it.
well then could you please explain? :D
troubadorista! Efrain toro shit dude. Mad simple....
Marco, thank you for the explanation but it's of no use. Geniuses can't explain well to us mortals what they have in their brain. So just play and dazzle us with your phenomenal world-class drumming. You're a pleasure to watch and listen to! Cheers from Montréal, Québec.
i thought it was only me who dont understand any single word he said especially what hes trying to say during playing. ugh
Hahaha I just love this guy, not only it is plesure to hear him play, it is also fun to see him play.
Absolute brilliance and probably the most humble person about his otherworldly skills. I wonder if Marco and Virgil Donati have ever done a drum duet. I'd love to see that, even if I only understand about 5% of what is being done here.
I just saw him play with Satriani last week -- he was incredible, best drummer I've ever seen live
my favorite drummer by UK reunion!!great inspiration!top drummer-musician!
But can he play the Ringo Starr solo from ''The End''?
Do you know what sarcasm is?
BTW I saw this guy play live, yes I know who he is
No one can copy ringo
Ringo can't even copy Ringo.
cuz ringo is only famous because of his band- hes the reason most drummer jokes (about drummers not being real musicians) were written. marco could outplay him with a single limb.
Classic Marco... Amazing patterns. I got to see him play and meet him at Alva's in San Pedro. He's the most entertaining drummer I've ever seen.
It is musicians like yourself Marco that give me nightmares where I pat my head and rub my tummy in strange rhythms whilst simulating tap dancing in fundamentally upsetting ostinati. I wake up at a peak where this unresolving non-euclidean pyramid accelerates towards infinituplets. Good job too because the laws of physics infer that my heads would be aflame by this point.
What can one say about Marco Minneman? An absolute genius, an inspiration, and an all around pleasant human being! I have met Marco twice at clinics in Ottawa, Canada, and he is always the coolest ma'fucka in the room! You make this look average. I understand what's going on, and to some degree, I am familiar with the practice involved to do this, but sticking it out and conquering the drums like you have is a whole other skill set. You deserve whatever success comes your way MM! Sick chops!!
Years of dedication and practice pays off!
The master of complex overlay
An absolute machine. Beyond incredible.
Total independence! Genius! And definitely he is much more musical than Mangini who is also well-known specialist in playing different polyrhythmic pieces. Though... I've never heard such difficult combination before. That's almost unreal but here it is!... Actually some time ago I was very interested in playing different polyrhythmic exercises. My friends told me 'bout some "virtuoso" who played triplets with his left hand and 5tuplets with his right hand, so they all said this was almost impossible unless he was a robot... I was wondering whether this was possible to play that and started to play sixteenth with my right hand and triplets with my left hand, then vice versa ... and it took me one day to shift to the necessary triplets/ 5tuplets rhythm. Then it took me several days to add 8th notes on the bass drum and 4th notes on hi-hat... My teacher and my bandmates were very impressed with it, so I thought I was a polyrhythmic drummer with good 4-way independence.... Now we all can see, what the REAL INDEPENDENCE is. Bravo, Marco!!!!!
Excellent. Very inspiring. Thank you, Marco.
Thanks for all the inspiration Marco, and thanks for posting these vids, very cool.
AMAZING!! I couln't imagin seeing you in a clinic. Inspiring as always!
Lifecycle of a young durmmer: plays something, gets motivated, watches a video of Marco, sells the drums
Marco's brain on drums. Way too much time, literally, on his hands.
Very entertaining, thank you Marco. I like practicing from your 2nd book, very mind-expanding concepts.
Beast.
Loved this guy since Extreme Interdependence.
Great vid.
Holy He// the art of ultimate independence....Marco the amazing!!!
Being a drummer myself for 40 years, it's almost so you wanna lay down and quit seeing this man play. It's like "Ooook, I thought I could play this instrument....". Like Salieri & Mozart in Amadeus😄
this is why i love watching you drumming!!!!
at one point I swear he says “your left side is playing this and your right side is playing that and your free side is playing ....” WTF, he has 3 sides? no wonder he’s so good
Brian Kulchycki The feet.
Cameron Pearce No he counts the left feet with left side, and the right fet with the right side
Ivo Wilson Fine then. The hands.
Joking aside he was trying to say that first he plays the nine on the right and then he moves it to the left, and whichever side isn't currently playing the ostinato is left to solo over it. So at the start he's playing the nine on the toms with his right while soloing with his left then moves the nine to the left on the gong drum and hi-hat to start soloing with the right. Then he moves the ostinato to his feet to start layering polymeters on top of it with his hands, because Marco Minnemann.
This is one of the many drum patterns that makes more sense hearing and feeling it than ever trying to explain it verbally ...sometimes my guitarist will describe to me the part he's about to show me in terms of time sig variations and counts etc...before he just lets me hear the dopeness of the actual riff.
I couldn't ever learn to play a 4/4 with one hand and triplets on the other. I stuck to the basic rock beat. MM is insanely talented.
Comments for this video are most amusing.
true lol
instructions not too clear .. ended up playing guitar :S
+Raxmole So let Marco teach you guitar too! :D
Instructions very clear. Got a desk job.
Now let guthrie teach you how to play guitar
This man is THE superhuman freak of percussion.
What a master ! I was trying to understand and he broke my brain !
9-tuplets ahh that triplet inside triplet feel, so so good!
Got it. *spontaneuos combustion*
i just love this Master of Drumming
Mind blowing stuff!
Defines the term mind boggling! Unreal!
theres a series of west african rhythms that are in 9 that you would appreciate.
Concoba and Koreduga are a couple. you can you tube them. beauty is...its usually played by ensembles of at least 5 poly rhythms for the rhythm to sound somewhat complete. the more the merrier in these cases. thank you for the break down. you rock!
Polyrhythmic mastery! Incredible skill!
As you all can hear....marco knows exactly what he does, instead of so many other drummers, from A-Z he can write it all out on paper and knows exactly what he does...that's called a "musician". YOU don't have to! Unless...you want to make this kind of music as your "profession".
I saw Marco last year live with the Aristocrats, awesome stuff, he's a moster!
I'm so glad I'm not a drummer my head would explode trying learning this!
I play guitar (pretty badly, but still!) and I know you can play very difficult stuff on guitar too but the fact a drummer can play 4 different time one for each limb is just insane to me!
This is ridiculous... Jesus!
Everyone watching is probably freaking out. And he's just like "bam bam bam, la la la, bored is it tea time?".
The beginning sounds like Marco's solo on Paul Gilbert's 'The Jackhammer' from the Spaceship One album.
Rondo2ooo Probably why it's signature? I don't know.
I like to think that I'm quite a good drummer myself. I have to think about that a little bit now.
Not being a freak of nature like Marco Minnemann (compliment btw) doesn't mean you're not good.
You are just fine...
Marco is an Alien.
There is no other logical explanation.
"betcha can't play this" for drummers
I loved that series.
This video has the highest concentration of funny top comments I've seen in a single video in years
Might as well understand wormhole dynamics in 5 minutes
Not even joking, I think I'd have a higher chance.
indeed
I think Vinnie Colaiuta would learn from this too. Separating the elements is wonderful.
Thank you for sharing.
Such a humble dude. He hasn't even said, "take me to your leader", yet.
After years of playing, I finally know what he’s talking about, and it’s as hard as it seems
That is completely insane! Like I would able to play that ever! And then that smile, like it is... fun!! Arghhh!
It feels like you've got a math PHD and thought this shit's too easy! Let's make it more challenging. Love the lesson! Really well explained. Learnt so much. Thank you Marco!!! Oh and COME TO SINGAPORE AGAIN!!
Let me watch this about 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times to even begin to understand what you are talking about. Regardless, sounds awesome Marco!!!
Hello Jeremy. Thank you for the reply :) I understand what you are saying and also that he plays it in one of his solo's. I was just wondering how something like this would be applied to music.
This is the greatest thing that has ever happened in the history of the entire world.
Keith Sullivan Next to the resurrection of Jesus Christ ,yes I would agree....
WOW WOW WOW Y RECONTRA WOW.. QUE HOMBRE PARA MAS IMPRESIONANTE.. MARCO SI EXISTIESE UN DIOS DE LAS PERCUSIONES ESE ERES TU.. NO ESTAS SANO DE LA CABEZA.. COMO PUEDES TOCAR ASI LA BATERIA ERES FABULOSO NO HAY PALABRAS PARA DESCRIBIRTE.. ME INCLINO ANTE EL DIOS DE LA BATERIA..
He must score way outside the norm in terms of coordination and ambidexterity. What an animal.
Mike Portnoy made 33 accounts to dislike this.
Literally, in my room shouting out holy shit for 5 minutes, then comes in the rest of my family who think I'm dying at this stage, who proceed to watch the rest of the video and join me in shouting out holy shit.
Amazing. One of the most underrated musicians in the world.
@1:23 "right hand"?
Well, I'm certainly glad he cleared that up for us... as soon as my ears, eyes and nose stop bleeding I'm going to go try this.🥺
My head just fell off
Marco, you're awesome...
The Jackhammer solo :), amazing as always!!!
Cool, it's Paul Gilbert playing drums
Take it away Marco!
I am just going to leave three of my limbs doing this while I take this phone call, hold on...