Thank you David. I am a Cosman workshop student and he has pretty much drilled this into my head. But nice to hear it from the legend who created it :)
I don’t mind the time outs for David’s sighs and ruminations. I do my best thinking during those lapses. Why do people think that a mouth like a machine gun is more conducive to learning?
Well done that man ... a good bit of fore thought almost always saves time during the actual process. Thank you for posting this, no matter what the punters have to say - the rest of us appreciate this bit of information!
I learned of you from Rob Cosman and I use the ruler trick all the time for plane blades. I'm new to woodworking and therefore have no preconceived notions - lucky me. All I know is that my blades are very sharp and I can quickly get back to work. What more does anyone need?
David, for the naysayers: your two-thirds of a degree estimate is a conservative upper limit. It would only reach that high an angle if your stone is only 2.5" wide and you pull back 10 mm from the edge. With a 3" stone the back angle is down to about half a degree ±0.05º.
I just asked that question.. my stone is 2-1/4” Will this create too steep of an angle? (First hand plane I’ve ever setup) need all the help I can get. Thanks.
I like how this guy takes the time to explain his methods with trig and such and is so kind about explaining why all these young cats a few things. Like this guy has nothing to prove...It's like watching David Attenborough tell me about nature like who's going to argue with this guy?
Oh there will always be people who think they know better, don't worry :D But yes people like Mr Charlesworth or Mr Sellers are wonderful teachers and we are lucky to have access to all their content. It's mindblowing to have all this absolutely top quality info available any time for free. I'm barely middle aged and I remember a time where it was NOT easy to get top notch info like that, the internet does have its advantages.
Thank you for your thorough explanation and demonstration. You are correct, some others' demonstrations on this subject can most certainly be called cringe worthy.
738polarbear I was skeptical as well but with Deneb, Tom Fidgen, and other big name guys throw weight behind it, I had to try it for myself. Let’s just say that I can’t believe the number of hours I’ve spent flattening backs and bevels. This has not only saved me time but it also made sharpening more enjoyable and predictable.
Thank you for the video, it is always good to hear something from the primary source. An old cabinet maker told me that he used to wipe his freshly sharpened blades on clean leather scrapes or cardboard for only a few strokes not to sharpen but to remove any residual oil, metal particles and abrasive from the blade. I often wonder if this is what stropping was intended to be and not what it has become with all the compounds and pastes. All the best.
I don’t think so. Stropping makes great sense on a straight razor or gouges, and is an old technique. It doesn’t do much without compound, though, contrary to what some say.
I must say when explained, it all makes perfect sense to me, I'm not an Engineer nor even a Woodworker, my field is elec/electronics and have always noted the stubborn burr thrown up on a metal edge. Off then On a stone gently seems ideal (with care to unnatural stone wear at the edge ! ?) I Thank You Sir.
David, I've been a fan of yours for years. Recently I saw you using your blue pad, so I bought one from the supplier you named. I'm having difficulty keeping it from sliding around when it gets the least bit damp. How are you keeping yours so stable?
Hi Mr Charlesworth, thank you for the idea, it's good for the bevel up blade. Would highly appreciate if you could kindly advise how to setup the bevel down blade with the chip breaker. Thanks a lot Kind Regards
hi David, I enjoyed this video very much. I am a carpenter in Ireland and as a hobby I started my main instead in furniture making. I purchased a lot of hand tools from Rob Cosman and lie Nielsen and I enjoy working with them. can I say I learned the ruler trick from Deneb of lie Nielsen and I wanted to thank you for this ingenious method as I use it every day, however to sharpen I noticed you drag the blade where as I push and drag. I take it this is wrong? also I am looking for an educational video which deals with the piston fit drawer, everything from building the carcass to the drawer itself and I wondered if you had a video that covers this area? Cheers Dan
Dan, Thank you. Nothing wrong with pushing! I drag because it helps my beginners not to dig corners of narrow chisels in. Yes I have done a drawer making and fitting DVD, see my site, www.davidcharlesworth.co.uk. David
The ruler trick works and it is efficient even though I do not use it often because of my OCD (I am working on it). The important thing about the ruler trick is to make sure the edges of your waterstones are chamfered and aren't not uneven which happens often even after flattening your stone (from experience).
@@snowwalker9999 Yes!. My new DVD on the Through Dovetail has just been released and is available from my website shop or Lie-Nielsen. Happy Christmas David.
Does this work for a cambered blade? It seems like only the middle part of the blade edge would contact the stone surface because of the edge's curvature.
Thank you for clearing this up. Although, may I ask, where I would find a 0.5mm ruler, or which brand do you use, please? I can only seem to find 2mm and 1.2mm. Thanks in advance.
This very interesting. I'll definitely try this. Thank you so much for you concise and thorough presentation. However, as somwhat of a novice, I wonder why one can go from 800 to 10000 grit without stopping at, say 5000 in between?
Klaus, The 800 g stone (fairly coarse) makes it quick to reestablish the edge (i.e. get a wire edge). I then raise the honing angle by approx. 2 degrees. This means that only the tip of the edge is getting polished. This always takes no more than 4 gentle strokes! My method is concerned with speed. If we don't have a quick method we are likely to put sharpening off, which is a bad thing! If the angle were not changed, polishing would take more strokes. David
David, thank you for explaning. It get it now. I did not take into consideration that you raise the angle. Although it feels like a radical move for me, considering I'm quite new to this, I am going to try it. The more I think of it, the more it makes sense to achieve a super sharp cutting edge without spending a lot of time honing the backside. Thanks again for getting back to me!
Hello! It is nice to see such a renowned craftsman sharing his knowledge. The times we live in! Regarding actual sharpening strokes. Do you advise against push strokes? I've spent a lot of money on my waterstone and it hurts me inside when I hear that grinding sound on the push stroke. The smudge also tells me waterstones don't like it at all. I'm talking about a 1000/3000 combination stone.
I suppose only use for bevel down planes? Bevel up plane blades need to sit perfectly flush with their flat side on the bed. Although on second thought this is probably also a non issue as the cutting edge including the tiny back bevel is protruding well passed the bed (mouth) edge. I’ll give it a try on my veritas bevel up planes (I own no beve dwn planes).
Simply a way to only polish the part of the back of the blade that needs polishing, thereby saving loads of time and elbow grease. I wish I knew a way to do it for curved (e.g. moulding plane) blades.
Thank you David for the ruler trick and for your explanation. I just successfully sharpened my first chisel and flatting the back was painful. :) It stuck in the mud many time and it is only a 1" chisel.
Jim, you don’t want to use the ruler trick on the back of chisels. It is a technique primarily for plane blades which usually require A LOT of honing to flatten the entire back (as you can imagine a 1” chisel vs a 2/38” plane blade). However, for a chisel you want to be able to register the back flat to the work so you know exactly where it will start to cut and that it will cut flat. Unless you have a chisel exclusively for chipping away wood and plan to never use it for paring tasks, I suppose the trick could be applied in that case but it usually isn’t that much work to flatten an inch or inch and a half from the back edge so you get that flat reference edge to use and the entire back doesn’t need to be flattened so it really doesn’t seem like the little time savings is worth leaving a chisel not able to be used for paring tasks and I think at the end of this video he even had it written (not to be used on chisels but I’m not positive) I hope my long winded reply makes some sense haha!
Hello David, would the substitution of a DMT 8000 grit diamond stone work just as well ? It sounds to me that you might be dedicated to water stones and I don’t have a fine Japanese water stone in my shop.
As someone with the extra extra fine DMT stone, the "polish" from the DMT 8,000 grit would not match the polish of a true 8,000 grit "polishing" stone. I'm not David, but I can speak to the experience of both a diamond stone rated as a fine grit polisher, and a true polishing stone like a Shapton, or Ohishi as is mentioned in the video. The next best thing, would be lapping film at low microns (9,5,3,1,0.5 ((0.5 μ is unnecessary for mirror polished)) ) to replicate the polishing effect of a polishing stone. Another option, you could try diamond paste on dense hardwood/MDF, as a makeshift strop, this would again, replicate the effect of a fine polishing stone as demonstrated in the video.
Nope, as he said these are very small angles. I personally think no angle will matter unless you go beyond your chipbreaker tip line with this back bevel. And even if you do, yo can give a negative back bevel to the chipbraker as he mentioned.
This is a great technique providing it's properly done. One thing troubles me however, how does one effectively deal with wear bevels on the back of the blade? I find they can make polishing away the wire edge a progressively more arduous affair with each repeated sharpening. It would interesting to hear whether David periodically finds the need to re-flatten the back of his blades on coarser stones, eliminating the small band of polish and also any aggregate wear bevel?
Hello David, I am a beginner DIY woodworker from India. I have been following your videos on ruler trick and also went through the chapters for the same in "Hand Tool Essentials". In India, the plane iron's we are having, back of which are not flat to a large extent, which I find very very time consuming to flatten. I am amazed by your methodology of ruler trick, and how quickly sharpening can be achieved, but again, I think I need to flatten back of plane iron to a significant degree for back bevel to appear in the last action of ruler trick. It takes hours and hours for me to flatten back(I am using Sigma power ceramic water-stone, and dmt duo sharp x-coarse for lapping it). Is there any way back flattening process can be quicker? or I need to resort import channel for A2 blades? Thanking in advance.
Kingshuk, Out of flat plane blades do take a long time to prepare. Some people recommend 80 grit Aluminium Oxide paper to start with, (Stuck to a flat surface). One thing that helps me is to stick a small wooden handle, with double sided tape, close to the bevel. This provides a good grip and prevents the fingertips from being honed away! Best wishes, David
Kingshuk Chakraborty if you have lots of out of plane tools, diamond sharpener are sometimes a good choice too. they stay flat and don't rip like sandpaper. long-term they are cheaper then.
If the ruler trick produces only 2/3 of a degree angle on the back of the plane blade, can you not use the same on a chisel? Conversely, if you advocate flattening and polishing the back (a least a cm or more) of a chisel, why not flatten and polish a similar amount on the back of a plane blade?
Stephen, you don't want to have to lift a chisel by 2/3 of a degree to cut straight. A chisel is jigged by its back. Backs of plane blades are different. They do need to be flat in width, but polishing takes far less time, and is more repeatable. Best wishes, David
David: Thank you for your reply. Clearly, your ruler trick (which I have used with satisfaction) saves the work of flattening the back of a plane blade. However, once the back of the plane blade is perfectly flat and polished (on an 8000 or higher grit water stone) then sharpening and resharpening may be performed by simply honing the secondary and tertiary bevels (a few strokes) followed by removal of the burr on the polishing stone. With only a tiny 'back bevel' of 2/3 of a degree, if you register a full inch of your chisel on your wood, how much would you "have to lift a chisel ... to cut straight"? Only slightly more than 1/100"! I'm not, however, putting a back bevel on my chisels. Best wishes! Stephen
I tried this a couple years ago when Rob Cosman showed it.I was skeptical.It is wonderful .I say if you are a nay sayer give it a go you won't be sorry.
Couldn't you do similarly with an unused card scraper on half the length of the stone, to prevent having to change the honing guide? Just set the honing guide to the right angle for the grinding portion, then put a card scraper under its' wheel to raise the angle by a degree or two to polish on the 10,000 grit. Could also use the same card scraper in place of the ruler.
First one ok but you'll wear your stone in a very concentradet area. And you can't use card scraper instead of a ruler, it has to be narrow to give you a shallow angle (8:04) , and you can't keep a wide card scraper hanging from side of the stone cause it'll tip off.
Lee Valley sells a series of "Stainless Steel Cabinetmaker's Rules" (www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=32568&cat=1,43513). I use the 6" version for the ruler trick. It measures 0.022 inches in thickness, which corresponds to 0.56 mm, which in turn corresponds to a 0.42 degree "back bevel" [sorry, David!] when used across a 3 inch wide stone.
Hello David! Here you show us how to first sharpen the full bevel, followed by slightly raising the angle to sharpen only the tip of the bevel/blade. Assuming that is right, how would we proceed with sharpening the next time around? It seems to me that it would only be necessary to start at 'step two' of you procedure - the slightly raised angle. Many thanks!
Tomas, I don't sharpen the full bevel. The tool is generally ground at 25 degrees. A wire edge is produced at 30 or 33 degrees, This bevel is kept small. Edge is polished at 32 or 35 degrees. Hope this helps, David
Well Patrick, planing becomes much more pleasurable with a sharp blade! The people coming on my short course have frequently not mastered this vital skill. They are always blown away by the performance and control which can be had from a properly prepared (fettled) plane. Another not inconsiderable point is that Paul works mostly with softwood. Glad you enjoyed it. David
Patrick - I've tried both and whilst Paul's method does indeed work for him and many others, it is just a matter of preference. What I would say is that Paul's method is quite tricky on the very hard blades on more expensive tools, not least because they are very, very thick as well as wide (planes as opposed to chisels). Notwithstanding David's video which is in slow time, the above method is pretty quick too & of course works freehand (see Rob Cosman) or with jigs.
Because with a chisel you want to be able to hold the back of the chisel in a dovetail or half lap… against a wall off wood and have it meet squarely at the bottom. If you use a back bevel of any sort you cant get the a square corner at the bottom
@@executive I think the idea is that as the chisel is hammered/struck and is rapidly cutting through the wood, the 2/3 of a degree back bevel, while negligible in most other applications, may, and I repeat may because I am not sure myself, but it may steer the chisel off its intended path slightly.
@@andyboxish4436 the path difference is imperceptible and you steer the chisel with your hand (for example it is sometimes desirable to undercut slightly )
@@executiveThe real reason is that you want to be able to use the flat back of the chisel as a reference for paring. If there is even a small back bevel, you need to raise the back off the workpiece in order to take a shaving, and that defeats the purpose of the back as a reference.
Jim was a friend and a fountain of knowledge. One of the last craftsmen who did a seven year apprenticeship. I was particularly impressed with the way he adopted Japanese tools. Best wishes, David
David don't fall into the trap of pandering to the so called forum gurus as none of them actually make a living by making or teaching woodwork. None actually spend money on doing class run courses. Since Cohen has become your latest fanboy as he has tried with many others and responds to every post you make into which most of these threads turn into ego driven arguments.In my opinion the only reason you have made this vid is to set things straight for the forums. You are far more than this and I mean that from a woodworkers heart, I remember reading when Schwarz announced his was giving himself an early Christmas present that he was giving up reading forums and with even starting his own he after a year to give it a chance canned it. Christmas is coming.
RIP, Mr. Charlesworth. Ruler trick is a great help in my sharpening. However, I’ve always found Charlesworth’s manner-precise, soft-spoken, thoughtfully s-l-o-w-w-w - either puts me to sleep, or makes me homicidal. If he and I shared a shop, one of us would be dead within a fortnight. I’m loud, foul-mouthed, impulsive, irritable, fast-talking, and… did I say LOUD? He’s entirely too fussy and anal-retentive in his approach, but his talents, skills, and inventiveness(es) are undeniable. But his “careful” pace makes me crazy. And he would find ME insufferable and brutish. SOLUTION: I play his videos at 1.5x speed, and my world changes! Suddenly, he’s chipper, energetic, dynamic! If you’re my type (irritable and irritating) I suggest you try this. The man knows what he’s talking about; he’s invaluable. (Just probably not that useful in a bar fight.)
The 1.5 playback speed is pure genius. Funny how many of the best ideas are dead simple and make you slap your forehead and say "WHY... didn't I think of that?!?"
I think that he is speaking slowly in the video as he is trying to catch his breath- he wasn't well. I find him quite chipper and dynamic, he was so enthusiastic about the craft.
i wish this fella was still alive so i could show him how i accomplish this same goal. he’d drop his method instantly. i originally learned this concept from him, but i refined it to be much easier and effective. full circle.
So glad to see this classic pop up again. David’s wisdom is a timeless classic.
The only person who can simply call it "The Ruler Trick"
This man just as well might have been a surgeon. God bless you sir, and rest in piece.
Thank you David. I am a Cosman workshop student and he has pretty much drilled this into my head. But nice to hear it from the legend who created it :)
So saddened to hear of David's passing. He will be looking down on us all using his famous Ruler Trick with a smile on his face. God bless . RIP
I don’t mind the time outs for David’s sighs and ruminations. I do my best thinking during those lapses. Why do people think that a mouth like a machine gun is more conducive to learning?
tiktok time limits
@@mydearrileytiktok time limits on youtube?
@fredpierce6097 Davids sighs and ruminations were his way of catching his breath. He had COPD.
I’ve had COPD Asthma/Emphysema for years. I can very much relate.
@@MarcusRefusius god bless
Hi David, great video and detailed look at the ruler trick, thanks for sharing!
Thank you David for your valuable knowledge and skills
fantastic tip and method which revolutionised my understanding of sharpening thanks
Many thanks for sharing your knowledge!
You are like an attainable wood God to me, i’m afraid I shouldn’t be watching you until I improve more!
Thanks Mr Charlesworth.How nice of you.
Well done that man ... a good bit of fore thought almost always saves time during the actual process. Thank you for posting this, no matter what the punters have to say - the rest of us appreciate this bit of information!
This man changed how I do woodworking. His DVDs are without equal....
Fab, so glad to see this video. Thanks so much 👍
The legendary ruler trick shown by the master ~
My condolences to David’s family and friends. RIP David
He died?
@@xyzr_3808 Passed away on Sunday sadly.
I learned of you from Rob Cosman and I use the ruler trick all the time for plane blades. I'm new to woodworking and therefore have no preconceived notions - lucky me. All I know is that my blades are very sharp and I can quickly get back to work. What more does anyone need?
Thank You so much for the information.
I love how you call Rob Cosman "more adventurous..." I bet he feels chuffed about that :)
What a pleasure it is to see the man himself demonstrating his famous ruler trick, which I find indispensable. Thanks for sharing this video!
BRILLIANT!
I know the ruler trick it's an old trick but I have not seen anyone advanced sharpening techniques quite the same way as you! Thank you for sharing.
David, for the naysayers: your two-thirds of a degree estimate is a conservative upper limit. It would only reach that high an angle if your stone is only 2.5" wide and you pull back 10 mm from the edge. With a 3" stone the back angle is down to about half a degree ±0.05º.
I just asked that question.. my stone is 2-1/4”
Will this create too steep of an angle? (First hand plane I’ve ever setup) need all the help I can get. Thanks.
I remember being a woodworker with hair ... makes me feel nostalgic.
I like how this guy takes the time to explain his methods with trig and such and is so kind about explaining why all these young cats a few things. Like this guy has nothing to prove...It's like watching David Attenborough tell me about nature like who's going to argue with this guy?
Oh there will always be people who think they know better, don't worry :D But yes people like Mr Charlesworth or Mr Sellers are wonderful teachers and we are lucky to have access to all their content. It's mindblowing to have all this absolutely top quality info available any time for free. I'm barely middle aged and I remember a time where it was NOT easy to get top notch info like that, the internet does have its advantages.
Thank you for your thorough explanation and demonstration. You are correct, some others' demonstrations on this subject can most certainly be called cringe worthy.
For those hard of hearing, or not familiar with pronunciation by an Englishman, David's 10,000 grit ceramic waterstone is made by Ohishi.
Thank you sir
this video reminds me of those bureaucrats from the movie, " A Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy."
I didnt believe at first but Rob Cosman made me decide to try it after watching his results AND YES it does work.
738polarbear I was skeptical as well but with Deneb, Tom Fidgen, and other big name guys throw weight behind it, I had to try it for myself. Let’s just say that I can’t believe the number of hours I’ve spent flattening backs and bevels. This has not only saved me time but it also made sharpening more enjoyable and predictable.
Thank you for the video, it is always good to hear something from the primary source. An old cabinet maker told me that he used to wipe his freshly sharpened blades on clean leather scrapes or cardboard for only a few strokes not to sharpen but to remove any residual oil, metal particles and abrasive from the blade. I often wonder if this is what stropping was intended to be and not what it has become with all the compounds and pastes.
All the best.
I don’t think so. Stropping makes great sense on a straight razor or gouges, and is an old technique. It doesn’t do much without compound, though, contrary to what some say.
A tip. Many desktop printers contain circa 8 mm wide steel strips of circa 0.5 mm thickness.
Thank you David
I must say when explained, it all makes perfect sense to me, I'm not an Engineer nor even a Woodworker, my field is elec/electronics and have always noted the stubborn burr thrown up on a metal edge. Off then On a stone gently seems ideal (with care to unnatural stone wear at the edge ! ?) I Thank You Sir.
David, I've been a fan of yours for years. Recently I saw you using your blue pad, so I bought one from the supplier you named. I'm having difficulty keeping it from sliding around when it gets the least bit damp. How are you keeping yours so stable?
Bob, by keeping the excess water under control. No water under the mat.
great video and instructions! thank you for taking the time to explain this. is that a rotary phone in the background??
Yes !!!
Hi Mr. Charlesworth. Does the ruler trick apply to things like combination plane blades (like the Stanley 55) and shoulder plane blades?
Brian, Ruler Trick is certainly good for shoulder plane blades.
I don't have a Stanley 55 so not so sure about them.
David
Hi Mr Charlesworth, thank you for the idea, it's good for the bevel up blade. Would highly appreciate if you could kindly advise how to setup the bevel down blade with the chip breaker.
Thanks a lot
Kind Regards
Doadoa,
This is quite a long topic which you can see in my plane sharpening DVD.
David
Richard Maguire - The English woodworker - aid he sometimes spits on his whetstones.
#Me too. ;)
Imagine David spitting on a sharpening stone.
hi David, I enjoyed this video very much. I am a carpenter in Ireland and as a hobby I started my main instead in furniture making. I purchased a lot of hand tools from Rob Cosman and lie Nielsen and I enjoy working with them. can I say I learned the ruler trick from Deneb of lie Nielsen and I wanted to thank you for this ingenious method as I use it every day, however to sharpen I noticed you drag the blade where as I push and drag. I take it this is wrong? also I am looking for an educational video which deals with the piston fit drawer, everything from building the carcass to the drawer itself and I wondered if you had a video that covers this area? Cheers Dan
Dan,
Thank you. Nothing wrong with pushing! I drag because it helps my beginners not to dig corners of narrow chisels in.
Yes I have done a drawer making and fitting DVD, see my site, www.davidcharlesworth.co.uk.
David
The ruler trick works and it is efficient even though I do not use it often because of my OCD (I am working on it). The important thing about the ruler trick is to make sure the edges of your waterstones are chamfered and aren't not uneven which happens often even after flattening your stone (from experience).
Yes, keeping bevels on the edges of your Waterstones is essential. If you don't, edges will crumble, and chip.
@@DavidCharlesworth I have been checking youtube everyday hoping you would release new videos. I hope all is well.
@@snowwalker9999 Yes!. My new DVD on the Through Dovetail has just been released and is available from my website shop or Lie-Nielsen.
Happy Christmas
David.
@@DavidCharlesworth Thank you, and Happy Christmas to you as well
RIP David.
Does this work for a cambered blade? It seems like only the middle part of the blade edge would contact the stone surface because of the edge's curvature.
Yes it works fine for the slight camber which I use on my 5 1/2.
David
Thank you for clearing this up. Although, may I ask, where I would find a 0.5mm ruler, or which brand do you use, please? I can only seem to find 2mm and 1.2mm. Thanks in advance.
Chris,
I use a cheap , stainless, 6" ruler from Axminster power tools.
Best wishes, David
www.lie-nielsen.com/products/measuring-marking-lie-nielsen-6-steel-rule-
www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/rules/74162-lee-valley-pocket-rule
www.fine-tools.com/vogel-ruler.html
@@vizsli Thank you very much for that useful data.
David
David, do you still use the Tormek to initially sharpen the blade then move to what you have demonstrated?
Yes, I do virtually all my grinding on the Tormek.
David
This very interesting. I'll definitely try this. Thank you so much for you concise and thorough presentation. However, as somwhat of a novice, I wonder why one can go from 800 to 10000 grit without stopping at, say 5000 in between?
Klaus,
The 800 g stone (fairly coarse) makes it quick to reestablish the edge (i.e. get a wire edge).
I then raise the honing angle by approx. 2 degrees. This means that only the tip of the edge is getting polished. This always takes no more than 4 gentle strokes!
My method is concerned with speed.
If we don't have a quick method we are likely to put sharpening off, which is a bad thing!
If the angle were not changed, polishing would take more strokes.
David
David, thank you for explaning. It get it now. I did not take into consideration that you raise the angle. Although it feels like a radical move for me, considering I'm quite new to this, I am going to try it. The more I think of it, the more it makes sense to achieve a super sharp cutting edge without spending a lot of time honing the backside. Thanks again for getting back to me!
Hello!
It is nice to see such a renowned craftsman sharing his knowledge. The times we live in!
Regarding actual sharpening strokes. Do you advise against push strokes? I've spent a lot of money on my waterstone and it hurts me inside when I hear that grinding sound on the push stroke. The smudge also tells me waterstones don't like it at all. I'm talking about a 1000/3000 combination stone.
As you see, I always pull.
David
I suppose only use for bevel down planes? Bevel up plane blades need to sit perfectly flush with their flat side on the bed. Although on second thought this is probably also a non issue as the cutting edge including the tiny back bevel is protruding well passed the bed (mouth) edge. I’ll give it a try on my veritas bevel up planes (I own no beve dwn planes).
Werner,
The polished area never gets wider than 1mm or so. The method is suitable for both types of Plane.
Simply a way to only polish the part of the back of the blade that needs polishing, thereby saving loads of time and elbow grease. I wish I knew a way to do it for curved (e.g. moulding plane) blades.
ua-cam.com/video/C1HIanyD3XU/v-deo.htmlsi=yRh9Lfz_8pQtM-3m
Thank you David for the ruler trick and for your explanation. I just successfully sharpened my first chisel and flatting the back was painful. :) It stuck in the mud many time and it is only a 1" chisel.
Jim, you don’t want to use the ruler trick on the back of chisels. It is a technique primarily for plane blades which usually require A LOT of honing to flatten the entire back (as you can imagine a 1” chisel vs a 2/38” plane blade). However, for a chisel you want to be able to register the back flat to the work so you know exactly where it will start to cut and that it will cut flat. Unless you have a chisel exclusively for chipping away wood and plan to never use it for paring tasks, I suppose the trick could be applied in that case but it usually isn’t that much work to flatten an inch or inch and a half from the back edge so you get that flat reference edge to use and the entire back doesn’t need to be flattened so it really doesn’t seem like the little time savings is worth leaving a chisel not able to be used for paring tasks and I think at the end of this video he even had it written (not to be used on chisels but I’m not positive) I hope my long winded reply makes some sense haha!
@@siagizmobass386 thanks for the comment. I didn't suggest it be used on a chisel.
Rest in peace
What mesurement on the ruler is 30° and 25° could you clarify . Many thanks
Tony,
In the L-N guide projection for 30 degrees is 30mm.
For 25 degrees it is 42mm.
David
Hello David, would the substitution of a DMT 8000 grit diamond stone work just as well ? It sounds to me that you might be dedicated to water stones and I don’t have a fine Japanese water stone in my shop.
As someone with the extra extra fine DMT stone, the "polish" from the DMT 8,000 grit would not match the polish of a true 8,000 grit "polishing" stone. I'm not David, but I can speak to the experience of both a diamond stone rated as a fine grit polisher, and a true polishing stone like a Shapton, or Ohishi as is mentioned in the video. The next best thing, would be lapping film at low microns (9,5,3,1,0.5 ((0.5 μ is unnecessary for mirror polished)) ) to replicate the polishing effect of a polishing stone. Another option, you could try diamond paste on dense hardwood/MDF, as a makeshift strop, this would again, replicate the effect of a fine polishing stone as demonstrated in the video.
Does the width of the stone matter? Wouldn’t the degree change if you had a 2.25” stone vs a 2.5-3”?
Nope, as he said these are very small angles. I personally think no angle will matter unless you go beyond your chipbreaker tip line with this back bevel. And even if you do, yo can give a negative back bevel to the chipbraker as he mentioned.
Yep. But negligible difference.
This is a great technique providing
it's properly done. One thing troubles me however, how does one
effectively deal with wear bevels on the back of the blade? I find
they can make polishing away the wire edge a progressively more
arduous affair with each repeated sharpening. It would interesting to
hear whether David periodically finds the need to re-flatten the back
of his blades on coarser stones, eliminating the small band of polish
and also any aggregate wear bevel?
Steve,
I don't find I need to re-flatten the back, but I do resharpen frequently, so wear bevel does not get big.
Good question.
David
Steve,
I guess I avoid large wear bevels by resharpening frequently.
Good Question!
David
Could a motor mechanics feeler gauge be used?
I would think so. 0.5 millimeters is going to be 0.5mil whether it's a feeler gauge, or, a thin rule.
It works also with bevel-down planes?
Absolutely. In fact I use it on all plane blades and scraper blades.
Hello David,
I am a beginner DIY woodworker from India. I have been following your videos on ruler trick and also went through the chapters for the same in "Hand Tool Essentials". In India, the plane iron's we are having, back of which are not flat to a large extent, which I find very very time consuming to flatten. I am amazed by your methodology of ruler trick, and how quickly sharpening can be achieved, but again, I think I need to flatten back of plane iron to a significant degree for back bevel to appear in the last action of ruler trick. It takes hours and hours for me to flatten back(I am using Sigma power ceramic water-stone, and dmt duo sharp x-coarse for lapping it). Is there any way back flattening process can be quicker? or I need to resort import channel for A2 blades? Thanking in advance.
Kingshuk,
Out of flat plane blades do take a long time to prepare.
Some people recommend 80 grit Aluminium Oxide paper to start with, (Stuck to a flat surface).
One thing that helps me is to stick a small wooden handle, with double sided tape, close to the bevel. This provides a good grip and prevents the fingertips from being honed away!
Best wishes,
David
Thanks David. This helps.
Kingshuk Chakraborty if you have lots of out of plane tools, diamond sharpener are sometimes a good choice too. they stay flat and don't rip like sandpaper. long-term they are cheaper then.
Thanks ALX
Can i use ruler trick on oil stones as well?
Method is not related to stone type, it's just creating an angle
If the ruler trick produces only 2/3 of a degree angle on the back of the plane blade, can you not use the same on a chisel? Conversely, if you advocate flattening and polishing the back (a least a cm or more) of a chisel, why not flatten and polish a similar amount on the back of a plane blade?
Stephen, you don't want to have to lift a chisel by 2/3 of a degree to cut straight.
A chisel is jigged by its back.
Backs of plane blades are different. They do need to be flat in width, but polishing takes far less time, and is more repeatable.
Best wishes,
David
David:
Thank you for your reply. Clearly, your ruler trick (which I have used with satisfaction) saves the work of flattening the back of a plane blade. However, once the back of the plane blade is perfectly flat and polished (on an 8000 or higher grit water stone) then sharpening and resharpening may be performed by simply honing the secondary and tertiary bevels (a few strokes) followed by removal of the burr on the polishing stone.
With only a tiny 'back bevel' of 2/3 of a degree, if you register a full inch of your chisel on your wood, how much would you "have to lift a chisel ... to cut straight"?
Only slightly more than 1/100"!
I'm not, however, putting a back bevel on my chisels.
Best wishes!
Stephen
I tried this a couple years ago when Rob Cosman showed it.I was skeptical.It is wonderful .I say if you are a nay sayer give it a go you won't be sorry.
Rob Cosman brought me here.
Couldn't you do similarly with an unused card scraper on half the length of the stone, to prevent having to change the honing guide? Just set the honing guide to the right angle for the grinding portion, then put a card scraper under its' wheel to raise the angle by a degree or two to polish on the 10,000 grit. Could also use the same card scraper in place of the ruler.
First one ok but you'll wear your stone in a very concentradet area. And you can't use card scraper instead of a ruler, it has to be narrow to give you a shallow angle (8:04) , and you can't keep a wide card scraper hanging from side of the stone cause it'll tip off.
No. That would put the angle on the bevel side.
I think it's a great idea for the bevel. For the "back microbevel" I think it's easier to use a narrow ruler (or a piece of shim stock).
What grit of nagura stone are you using on your water stone
Just the one which comes with the King 10,000 stone.
10 000 grit is on the end of the stone , but he does say 10 000 grit also.....but it is easily issued in the video
Any particular reason that you only pull the blade on the stone and not push as well?
Joey, for beginners there is a risk of tipping the blade and gouging the stone. I tend to get stuck in demonstration mode, but do also push sometimes.
I have looked and looked for a .5mm ruler but I can't seem to locate any. Suggestions please...
Larry,
You don't say where you are.
In UK Axminster power tools have a stainless one for less than £2.
In USA L-N have a nice one for $3.
David
Sorry, I should have mentioned that I live in Canada. Thanks for the two leads.
LW
Larry,
I would have thought that Veritas would be almost certain to have such a ruler.
Lee Valley sells a series of "Stainless Steel Cabinetmaker's Rules" (www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=32568&cat=1,43513). I use the 6" version for the ruler trick. It measures 0.022 inches in thickness, which corresponds to 0.56 mm, which in turn corresponds to a 0.42 degree "back bevel" [sorry, David!] when used across a 3 inch wide stone.
dictum.com have all you need :D only quality
Hello David! Here you show us how to first sharpen the full bevel, followed by slightly raising the angle to sharpen only the tip of the bevel/blade. Assuming that is right, how would we proceed with sharpening the next time around? It seems to me that it would only be necessary to start at 'step two' of you procedure - the slightly raised angle. Many thanks!
Tomas,
I don't sharpen the full bevel.
The tool is generally ground at 25 degrees.
A wire edge is produced at 30 or 33 degrees, This bevel is kept small.
Edge is polished at 32 or 35 degrees.
Hope this helps,
David
Many years ago, our technical college teacher used to say, It's not called a Ruler it's a Rule, Ceasar was a Ruler" Always made me chuckle.
Lovely to watch, but 'counsels of perfection' for most of us who 'just want to plane something' see Paul Sellers on plane sharpening!
Well Patrick, planing becomes much more pleasurable with a sharp blade! The people coming on my short course have frequently not mastered this vital skill. They are always blown away by the performance and control which can be had from a properly prepared (fettled) plane.
Another not inconsiderable point is that Paul works mostly with softwood.
Glad you enjoyed it.
David
Patrick - I've tried both and whilst Paul's method does indeed work for him and many others, it is just a matter of preference. What I would say is that Paul's method is quite tricky on the very hard blades on more expensive tools, not least because they are very, very thick as well as wide (planes as opposed to chisels). Notwithstanding David's video which is in slow time, the above method is pretty quick too & of course works freehand (see Rob Cosman) or with jigs.
why not chisels?
Because with a chisel you want to be able to hold the back of the chisel in a dovetail or half lap… against a wall off wood and have it meet squarely at the bottom. If you use a back bevel of any sort you cant get the a square corner at the bottom
@@lincolndickerson1293 why not. the difference will be be a few micron.
@@executive I think the idea is that as the chisel is hammered/struck and is rapidly cutting through the wood, the 2/3 of a degree back bevel, while negligible in most other applications, may, and I repeat may because I am not sure myself, but it may steer the chisel off its intended path slightly.
@@andyboxish4436 the path difference is imperceptible and you steer the chisel with your hand (for example it is sometimes desirable to undercut slightly )
@@executiveThe real reason is that you want to be able to use the flat back of the chisel as a reference for paring. If there is even a small back bevel, you need to raise the back off the workpiece in order to take a shaving, and that defeats the purpose of the back as a reference.
Hi david, I feel you need to be seen by a Dr , your lungs maybe blocked, ps love your videos . ps please do not be offended.
Jas, thank you, I have a lung complaint and see a specialist regularly.
David
Take care of yourself , you are doing great work . mad as it sounds try and wear masks when around MDF .. and soft fibre crap.
Thanks Jesus I appreciate your divine knowledge.
Must be a guitar player …..me thinks
Richard, Lapsed I fear! David
You should look into a job in voiceover... David Attenborough is getting old and needs a successor.
As masterful as David Charlesworth is, I still miss old Jim Kingshott!!
Jim was a friend and a fountain of knowledge. One of the last craftsmen who did a seven year apprenticeship.
I was particularly impressed with the way he adopted Japanese tools.
Best wishes,
David
David don't fall into the trap of pandering to the so called forum gurus as none of them actually make a living by making or teaching woodwork. None actually spend money on doing class run courses. Since Cohen has become your latest fanboy as he has tried with many others and responds to every post you make into which most of these threads turn into ego driven arguments.In my opinion the only reason you have made this vid is to set things straight for the forums. You are far more than this and I mean that from a woodworkers heart, I remember reading when Schwarz announced his was giving himself an early Christmas present that he was giving up reading forums and with even starting his own he after a year to give it a chance canned it. Christmas is coming.
RIP, Mr. Charlesworth. Ruler trick is a great help in my sharpening. However, I’ve always found Charlesworth’s manner-precise, soft-spoken, thoughtfully s-l-o-w-w-w - either puts me to sleep, or makes me homicidal. If he and I shared a shop, one of us would be dead within a fortnight. I’m loud, foul-mouthed, impulsive, irritable, fast-talking, and… did I say LOUD? He’s entirely too fussy and anal-retentive in his approach, but his talents, skills, and inventiveness(es) are undeniable. But his “careful” pace makes me crazy. And he would find ME insufferable and brutish.
SOLUTION: I play his videos at 1.5x speed, and my world changes! Suddenly, he’s chipper, energetic, dynamic! If you’re my type (irritable and irritating) I suggest you try this. The man knows what he’s talking about; he’s invaluable. (Just probably not that useful in a bar fight.)
The 1.5 playback speed is pure genius. Funny how many of the best ideas are dead simple and make you slap your forehead and say "WHY... didn't I think of that?!?"
Yours was the only 1.5-speed wisecrack that I actually enjoyed, thanks to your self-deprecating humor. Happy sharpening.
I think that he is speaking slowly in the video as he is trying to catch his breath- he wasn't well. I find him quite chipper and dynamic, he was so enthusiastic about the craft.
Have you read paul sellers blogs, extremely long winded and more like long trailers with mainly background information.
Playback speed 1.5 ......youre welcome
@1 New Notification Yes, it's rude
Attention span much?
i wish this fella was still alive so i could show him how i accomplish this same goal. he’d drop his method instantly. i originally learned this concept from him, but i refined it to be much easier and effective. full circle.
Talk is cheap
How do you accomplish the same goal then?
Tell us about your refined method.
I too wish this fella was still with us. A kinder, more generous soul never drew breath.
It’s a rule not ruler. The Queens a ruler
The queen doesn’t rule jack diddly, f the monarchy.