I so needed to see this. Great info and extremely well presented and edited. In my opinion your video had Zero wasted time and 100% useful for everyone. Thank you very much.
Here are some tips for mechanics looking at this: make sure you use the correct size foam rings if replacing them, they are sold as 6mm foam rings but when measured come closer to 5mm, they expand slightly when soaked in oil, modern rockshox forks use 0w-30 sus fluid in the foam rings and in both sides of the lowers refer to the specific fork for ml of oil to use (generally the same amount for air and damper side lowers), always make sure whatever you use to clean the inside of the lowers is fully protected by a cloth or something so you don’t risk scratching the inside of the lowers (this video is an example of what not to do when cleaning the inside with the pvc pipe because it easily could be scraping the lower as he turned and maneuvered it), a piece of pipe or something to protect the damper shaft is recommended so the c clip can’t accidentally scratch it , slick honey is rockshox approved as grease for the inside of the seals unless noted otherwise in the rebuild instructions, and the serial number on all rockshox products follows a specific sequence that you can use to identify the year of a fork at a glance: the first 2 numbers are the week of the year , the letter is the factory location, and the next 2 numbers represent the year it was made, but rockshox goes in batches of 10 so a 2011 fork and a 2021 fork will both have 01 as the numbers indicating year on the serial number. The bottom bolts typically have a torque of 7.3nm and you need to inspect the crush washers everytime you open a rockshox fork.
You really think that PVC pipe would scratch the insides of the tubes? I mean, I know it’s pretty hard plastic but I wouldn’t think it’d scratch the insides of the lowers or the upper tubes. But I’m genuinely asking tho as I truly don’t know. I use a carbon fiber gun cleaning rod with a plastic tip and patches thru it. No scratches from that. But if I did use PVC pipe, would I really be risking scratching the metal insides? Another question- as far as the grease type- they say to use Slick Honey or SRAM butter, but what I were to use say, Prep-M by Manitou? (The thin green grease) Would that be a suitable substitute? I know it needs to be a rather thin grease and Prep-M is very thin and made for MTB suspension forks (albeit old forks) Thanks for any input or suggestions anyone can provide
I just wanted to add a couple of details in case it might help people. That circlip / snap ring under the air spring assembly, it's supposed to be oriented in a specific direction. If you look closely the there is a sharp edge on one side of it and a slightly smoother beveled edge to the other side. The beveled edge side should be facing up (towards the air spring) / the sharper edge facing down towards the bottom of the fork. Also, helps to gradually re-pressurize the fork once you're done with your work and cycle it as you do so. i.e. Don't just pump up to your desired air pressure in one go. I would maybe go part of the way there, cycle the fork, then another interval, cycle, then to full pressure. Sometimes if done too quickly you'll find the fork may not be fully extended to full travel (although after riding it should reset itself correctly). Most importantly, big kudos to Dr. J MTB, this is a fantastic video. Love it. Great work!
Thanks for this man, probably one of the cheapest most effective upgrades one could do to their bike. About to upgrade my 150mm Pike to a 160mm with the 2021 spring, and this is just what I needed.
Good day, why some ppl put oil in the positive air chamber and some ppl don’t, is that a preference or not cause I took my lowers off my RS pike and it had no oil in the air chamber
Just upgraded my Lyrik 2020 with the new Debonair air spring. I went from 150mm to 160mm too. Watched most of the videos out there, but came back to you one as you did such a good job with your instruction. So thank you, it gave me the confidence and knowledge to tackle this job. Richie, UK
Just completed this service on a 2020 Yari after my bike with a Fox 34 got stolen. When I got the 2020 Yari I thought it felt like crap- harsh and clicky and just a lot of stiction and dead space. And I was bottoming out all 150mm very easily even with way more than the recommended PSI. Using your video I just did the surgery to upgrade the two pieces and it’s a whole different fork now. Light years ahead. Butter smooth all the way through, no stiction, and much better small bump sensitivity with no dead zone. I’m elated. Thanks for the video!
Great video, very clear instruction and explanations. You shouldn’t grease the top cap threads as they have thread lock compound on them. Also worth noting that the circlip on the seal head should be installed with the sharp edge to the outside.
Dr J., just wanted to say thanks for the video. I followed your instructions, with a small bit of improvisation (Rebound cap did not have a set screw on it, so I popped it off) and upgraded my 2017 Yari 150mm fork successfully. 👍🏽✌🏾😎. I am now a SUB.
Nice video, it's nice to see someone not over grease everything. Just personal prefrence but I always prefer to pull the fork, it's a good time to service your headset at the same time.
Great video thanks! Ive just taken mine apart new from factory and the circlip was on the other leg not this one. Does anyone know why this may be or just an assembly mistake?
Allow me to share my story with you. In the brand new YT industries bike with ROCK SHOX LYRIK, the fork was sucked in and the suspension travel was reduced. 3-4 cm of SAG was always inside the lower legs no matter what . On warranty rockshox decided that everything is ok but REPLACED the crown with the upper legs with NO SAG MEASURE. You know what I mean- those lines on one of the left upper leg with the SAG percentages. This did not solved the problem. They obviously wanted to hide the problem rather than fix it. Only after shipment to an independent suspension service in Poland (WichuWorkshop) was the AirSpring replaced. The problem has been solved, unfortunately the costs were on my side.
When putting the bolts back onto the lowers, is there a need to release air inside first? In the video it is not shown but a cut in the scene is their where the lowers are more compressed. I feel silly for asking, is it just me?
Great tutorial, I've seen this done several times but never given it a go, reckon by following this I could get it done. Love your trick with the PVC pipe
Hey man I have a 2019 revelation rc with 130 mm travel. Am looking to upgrade the air spring and add more travel. Would I be able to go from 130 to say 160/170 mm travel? This is on a marin san Quentin frame. Cheers!
Ciao a tutti sulla turbolevo 2018 ho la forcella revelation 35 diametro 150 mm escursione se metto il nuovo debonair 2021 da 160 e compatibile e la forcella diventa 160? Grazie
He had mentioned that removing it was a hack to get more negative air volume, and had mentioned that he had done that in the past. The new piston was brand new and came with the bumper installed. At 12:35 you can see that he's removed that top out bumper on the new spring.
I have the 2021 Lyrik ultimate C2. Shouldn't that be 3 cc of 3wt oil on the top of the air spring? The spec sheet says 3cc but for volume it says "bleed" whatever that means, lol. If you are not greasing the air spring or removing should I lube the ID with the grease from the top? Easy enough to remove the air spring so I'll probably do that. Thanks
He left it off on purpose- to increase the negative spring air chamber. Then he says he ended up putting it back on because the larger volume negative spring chamber causes the fork to be too progressive (ramps up too much at as it compresses)
hello, great video, congratulations too I have updated my 180 mm lyrik ultimate with the 2021 version I wanted to ask you if you had any set up parameters for HSC and LSC to suggest the fork is installed on an ebike I weight 90 kg then you think that is the case to remove the tokens? at the moment I put 2. Thanks
Hi, so do you need to modify how much oil is in the damper if you change the spring volume to match? I can’t really see any information on google. I would imagine that for a 10% increase you probably wouldn’t notice it. However I thought I should ask
I just replaced the air spring in my 2021 Ultimate. Came 120 needed to be 140. Watching the video, I removed the top out bumper. I have not ridden yet, but all feel fine. Later to find out you put in back. Should I be concerned about damaging my new fork, and should I put the bumper back before even trying it?
Top out bumper prevents the air piston from slamming into the seal head when the fork goes into full EXTENSION, not full compression. Thus, the top out bumper simply prevents the red metal piece on the air spring from clanging into the black air piston when you do something like a manual and lift the front wheel quickly. Function is the same on both springs. I'm running mine in the new spring now, FYI.
Great video! The explanations and process are put together excellent. Mostly I'm glad I'm not the only one that understands beating your carbon frame with a ratchet or other tool and the benefits you'll receive 🤘
Great video! be helpful to know, do you use same syringe for injecting 0w-30 and 3wt or do you always use different syringe, or is it ok to just clean syringe with alcohol after using and use with different oil?
Thanks for the video. Nice and clear, easy to follow for those of us that like to be reassured we're not fucking up! - helps keep what is a straight forward job, straight forward!
Can you please tell me when u insert the oil into the lowers do you put it into the lower leg chamber or into the air spring chamber? Do you understand what I mean?
Has anybody tried cutting the top-out bumper up in order to get a bit of the added small bump compliance and mid-stroke support without increasing the bottom-out resistance to the point you don't want any tokens in there anymore?
Fantastic vid man...very thorough!! You have yourself a new and interested subscriber!! I, too, run a 2020 Lyrik Ultimate and am nearing my first 50hr lowers service, so this couldn’t have come at a better time for me. Also planning to grab that airspring upgrade (just the upper seal and foot nut) for this first service too. One quick question, if I may.... I only have slick honey...no SRAM Butter or the Dynamic grease. Which would you recommend I pick up?
Thanks! And if you have the Lyrik Ultimate, it can take either, but I’d recommend the Dynamic grease as it is thicker and presumably lasts longer. The slick honey would do in a pinch, you just wouldn’t add the 3ml of oil on top of the spring.
Does adding travel from 160 to 170mm to a lyrik rc is problematic?the fork will be weaker or something?RockShox suggest doing it? it's just buying and installing the 2021 air spring?and it will work fine?
SRAM butter will always be fine, but some of the newer ones (probably yours as well) can run the dynamic seal grease. Check out the Rockshox trailhead app or service archive online to check your specific fork.
It keeps initial stiction down to a minimum. It’s more viscous than the grease and will allow the air piston head to get moving more smoothly/easily from a static position when being compressed. It makes a huge difference in my Lyrik.
Completely depends on the model of fork. Older ones probably yes, newer ones, definitely not. The new ones use a cassette lockring tool. You better google that one for your specific fork.
Hey! If I want to increase my lyriks travel, (its actually 160mm), I should buy this new air spring in 170 version? (I obviously want to upgrade to the new Air Spring).
Sorry I missed the comment earlier... If you want to increase travel, you should still go with a longer spring. If you don't love it with longer travel, you can always put the new bits (new seal head and foot nut) on the older 160 spring and you'd still have the new setup.
Bigger negative air chamber which can help give you more progression if need be. If you feel like the fork is feeling good, I wouldn't do it. If you're bottoming out excessively, I can help give more progression without losing a supple top end.
thanks for the video! I have a 2016 Pike RCT3, could i upgrade to the latest version of Debonair, or just the previos? Rockshox said that I can't but I don't understand why....Its almost the same...what do you think?
I’d be reluctant to give you any specific compatibility advice. It would be hard to understand how the old debonair airspring would fit but not the new one.
You can definitely use butter instead. It's my understanding that you omit the part about putting the 3ml of suspension oil on top of the air spring if you use SRAM butter instead of dynamic seal grease. The seal grease is quite a bit thicker.
Hi guys, great vid thanks man. Just FYI Giordano, I got confused and put the 3ml oil in the top even though I used sram butter, I haven't noticed anything, the 160mm upgrade is working fine so far.
Is it correct that I can't extend my rev's from 150mm to 160mm because it is a 29er? This is what my lbs told me. Seems a bit odd because the lowers take the wheel and the air spring is in the uppers? Help anyone?
It was the upgraded air spring just like the video. My original Pike RC Debonair OEM on my 2019 Stumpjumper 29er was 150mm. I upgraded to the new 160mm.
@@Phen0mable I have a 150/160 lyrik that I'm fitting a 170 air shaft. All stanchions are the same length. Just measure your sag manually if not running travel printed on the stanchion. 👍
It's not a bottom-out bumper, it's a top-out bumper so no chance of damage when bottoming out the suspension. It keeps the air piston from clanging against the seal head when unloaded (like when you pull up into a manual quickly). And I'm not sure about warranty. I can say that if you're apprehensive about it, the benefit to it is probably not worth it.
Sooo. If I upgrade my 2018 Revelation to the 2021 airspring and 2021 rc2.1 damper unit I would get a pike ultimate... Question is, if you actually need the dynamic grease and 3ml of oil on top of the air spring?! :D
You would definitely have the internals of a pike ultimate. And the dynamic seal grease, if I’m not mistaken, has more to do with the newer seals that are on the newer forks. If you’re not running the new seals with it, I would just use the SRAM butter. Even if you are, you can still use SRAM butter. If you do, just don’t do the 3ml on top.
@@DrJMTB That's what I don't get. I ordered the parts to do the upgrade (charger rc2 2.1 and new debonair spring). The flipchart from SRAM for the Pike Ultimate with RC2 2.1 damper says to use the dynamic seal grease on the air piston o-rings, which if I am not mistaken, are the 2 seals on the red part and the black top part. So if I upgrade I should get those newer seals as well, right? Or do I mix something up?
Just go with the Dynamic Seal Grease, Maxima Plush suspension oil and 0w30 for the lowers in any Rockshox fork and damper. Even better, use Motorex 5wt suspension fluid in dampers and Motorex Supergliss 100k in the lowers for the very best results. It has nothing to do with newer seals, the seals are unchanged. SRAM is a marketing driven company, hence the new Super Duper Absolute Awesome Deluxe product naming. What's good for their top forks and shocks is good for their entire range. Use the best fluids and get the best results.
@@mediasucks From the SRAM website on their Pike Ultimate page: "New ultra-low friction SKF wiper seals and Maxima Plush damping fluid all work overtime to reduce friction, silence noise, and provide lasting fork performance." "New"?
I'd say I would personally have a hard time picking a favorite or discerning which was which if I were blindfolded. I do feel like the Lyrik is slightly easier to set up and maybe slightly easier to service.
Dude, brilliant video. I've been questioning myself gor so long as to whether or not invest in the right tools and service my forks myself. Totally doing it now, great job!
I’ve seen mixed reviews on the new debonair spring installed on Pike forks. People say it takes away some suppleness and feels harsh. Did you notice any difference on the ride feel before/after on your 140mm Pike?
I haven't done it on my Pike yet, only the Lyrik. But it has definitely made the Lyrik more supple for me. I've seen those reviews as well and I'm not sure what the difference is, other than it does take some time to set it up correctly after install (you can't just run the same bottomless tokens, air pressure, compression, rebound, ect.)
Some say you can, many say you can't. Motor oil is meant to maintain its properties at much higher operating temps in the internals of a motor, whereas the suspension oil is designed to have optimal performance at the temps generated by a working suspension. Also, the additives are different in motor oil. I personally just go for the RockShox oil.
Are you sure that what you say is correct regarding the hack you mention by removing the rubber part? I think you are wrong. Rockshox increased the height of the red piston, in order to place the top air piston seal higher inside the stanchion in order to fine tune the position of the main air piston seal relative to the position of the equalisation channel inside the stanchion. By removing this rubber you allow the main air piston to be placed lower inside the stanchion, so not only you place it away from the equalisation channel (contrary to what rockshox designed), but you also DECREASE the negative volume chamber while at the same time you INCREASE the positive volume chamber because as already said you allow the main air piston to sit lower inside the stanchion. If you want to increase the negative volume chambr you have to add one more rubber like this and not remove one. These way the main air piston seal will sit even higher inside the station. This way you will increase the negative chamber but you will decrease the positive chamber. But you have to make sure that the new height is in place with the stanchion equalisation channel. Please take me question as a positive comment, and I hope I will have a reply from you just in case I miss something here. I really liked your video and already subscribed. :)
I do appreciate your sub 👍🏻. Let me help you understand better. When you take water out of a cup, does it decrease or increase the available volume inside the cup? Of course, it INCREASES the available volume. When you take out the bumper, this INCREASES the air volume inside the negative chamber. Think about what you do with volume spacers or REDUCERS when you put those in your fork or shock, it reduces volume. The negative air chamber actually assists the air piston up into its travel, so this will certainly not have the air piston dropping down more. If anything, it might help it sit slightly higher. The air piston naturally wants to move up with the wheel pushing it up, and this is resisted by the positive air spring pushing it back down. The negative air chamber helps you achieve sag so that your air piston doesn't get pushed all the way down by the positive spring. Watch these 2 videos where I break down this specific upgrade and where I break down MegNeg (which is a rear shock upgrade that INCREASES the negative air chamber)... ua-cam.com/video/0fr7tqya7QY/v-deo.html. and ua-cam.com/video/fMeX0nA_jYM/v-deo.html. Please be aware, I no longer run the spring without the bumper as it was actually too progressive for my liking, but the concepts definitely still apply.
@@DrJMTB thanks for yout kind reply. I totally agree with what ever you said in your reply. But what ever you said didn't prove me wrong because you dont take into consideration the movement of the air shaft when you pump air in it. You fail to understand the fact that by removing this rubber you allow the top air piston to move lower!! So in reality you decrease thr air volume because when pumped the top air piston will move to the lowest possible position! Check this video and imagine that the black rubber you removed isnt there ua-cam.com/video/03pdywBkuNQ/v-deo.html Its obvious that the top air piston will slide lower in the stanchion, so the negative air chamber will be srinked.
@@e-bikerides4618 No man. Sorry. The dimple still allows the air to equalize from positive to negative chambers with or without the bumper. The only time the air piston moves lower is when the wheel is unweighted such as on rebound, lifting the front wheel, etc. That's why the topout bumper is there. To prevent the air piston from pinging into the seal head when the front is unweighted rapidly. Otherwise, it does nothing other than take up volume in the negative chamber. I got the idea originally from Henry from GMBN. Do you think one of the best bike mechanics in the world is fundamentally wrong as well? See 4:11 of ua-cam.com/video/MP4SFPyITiY/v-deo.html
@@e-bikerides4618 That phenomenon occurred WITH THE BUMPER INSTALLED. The fork being sucked down into its travel is actually the air piston being further distanced from seal head anyway, not closer to it.
Really curious about the performance difference of the new spring with the bumper removed. Just installed the new spring on my older Pike and it’s already an improvement.
I ended up putting mine back in if that helps. I like it as a hack on the old spring, but the new spring with it removed was too progressive for me. I was running no bottomless tokens and still couldn't bottom it out. With the bumper installed on the new spring, I'm hanging out at 2 tokens and ~22% sag and feeling great. It's easy to try, however. The most you're out is time and 20ml's of 0W-30 oil if you want to put it back in.
@@DrJMTB Hi! Could you be so kind to explain me what is the benefit of the air bump removed on the old air shaft? I'll do the upgrade ( not with the 2021 one ) in a few days. Thanks in advance!
Daniel C In short, it’s significantly increases the negative air spring volume. This gives quite a bit more progression and if you’re really having trouble with blowing through your travel, this can help prevent bottom out and be slightly more supple off from the top. For me it was actually too much progression and the fork just felt too stiff with no volume spacers.
Dr. J MTB Hi , I must be missing something here. How does increasing negative spring volume increase end of stroke resistance? Negative spring opposes the positive spring so making it larger should have the opposite effect... ??
Wow! I can't believe you left out the torque specs on the bottom bolts! 😢 Now I'm going to have to look it up. It was just a good video right up to that, sorry.
I so needed to see this.
Great info and extremely well presented and edited. In my opinion your video had Zero wasted time and 100% useful for everyone.
Thank you very much.
Here are some tips for mechanics looking at this: make sure you use the correct size foam rings if replacing them, they are sold as 6mm foam rings but when measured come closer to 5mm, they expand slightly when soaked in oil, modern rockshox forks use 0w-30 sus fluid in the foam rings and in both sides of the lowers refer to the specific fork for ml of oil to use (generally the same amount for air and damper side lowers), always make sure whatever you use to clean the inside of the lowers is fully protected by a cloth or something so you don’t risk scratching the inside of the lowers (this video is an example of what not to do when cleaning the inside with the pvc pipe because it easily could be scraping the lower as he turned and maneuvered it), a piece of pipe or something to protect the damper shaft is recommended so the c clip can’t accidentally scratch it , slick honey is rockshox approved as grease for the inside of the seals unless noted otherwise in the rebuild instructions, and the serial number on all rockshox products follows a specific sequence that you can use to identify the year of a fork at a glance: the first 2 numbers are the week of the year , the letter is the factory location, and the next 2 numbers represent the year it was made, but rockshox goes in batches of 10 so a 2011 fork and a 2021 fork will both have 01 as the numbers indicating year on the serial number. The bottom bolts typically have a torque of 7.3nm and you need to inspect the crush washers everytime you open a rockshox fork.
You really think that PVC pipe would scratch the insides of the tubes? I mean, I know it’s pretty hard plastic but I wouldn’t think it’d scratch the insides of the lowers or the upper tubes. But I’m genuinely asking tho as I truly don’t know. I use a carbon fiber gun cleaning rod with a plastic tip and patches thru it. No scratches from that. But if I did use PVC pipe, would I really be risking scratching the metal insides? Another question- as far as the grease type- they say to use Slick Honey or SRAM butter, but what I were to use say, Prep-M by Manitou? (The thin green grease) Would that be a suitable substitute? I know it needs to be a rather thin grease and Prep-M is very thin and made for MTB suspension forks (albeit old forks) Thanks for any input or suggestions anyone can provide
I just wanted to add a couple of details in case it might help people. That circlip / snap ring under the air spring assembly, it's supposed to be oriented in a specific direction. If you look closely the there is a sharp edge on one side of it and a slightly smoother beveled edge to the other side. The beveled edge side should be facing up (towards the air spring) / the sharper edge facing down towards the bottom of the fork. Also, helps to gradually re-pressurize the fork once you're done with your work and cycle it as you do so. i.e. Don't just pump up to your desired air pressure in one go. I would maybe go part of the way there, cycle the fork, then another interval, cycle, then to full pressure. Sometimes if done too quickly you'll find the fork may not be fully extended to full travel (although after riding it should reset itself correctly).
Most importantly, big kudos to Dr. J MTB, this is a fantastic video. Love it. Great work!
Thanks for this man, probably one of the cheapest most effective upgrades one could do to their bike. About to upgrade my 150mm Pike to a 160mm with the 2021 spring, and this is just what I needed.
👊🏼 let us know how it does!
Good day, why some ppl put oil in the positive air chamber and some ppl don’t, is that a preference or not cause I took my lowers off my RS pike and it had no oil in the air chamber
Just upgraded my Lyrik 2020 with the new Debonair air spring. I went from 150mm to 160mm too. Watched most of the videos out there, but came back to you one as you did such a good job with your instruction. So thank you, it gave me the confidence and knowledge to tackle this job. Richie, UK
Just completed this service on a 2020 Yari after my bike with a Fox 34 got stolen. When I got the 2020 Yari I thought it felt like crap- harsh and clicky and just a lot of stiction and dead space. And I was bottoming out all 150mm very easily even with way more than the recommended PSI.
Using your video I just did the surgery to upgrade the two pieces and it’s a whole different fork now. Light years ahead. Butter smooth all the way through, no stiction, and much better small bump sensitivity with no dead zone. I’m elated.
Thanks for the video!
Glad to hear it got you sorted out! Happy shredding!
Great video, very clear instruction and explanations.
You shouldn’t grease the top cap threads as they have thread lock compound on them. Also worth noting that the circlip on the seal head should be installed with the sharp edge to the outside.
Dr J., just wanted to say thanks for the video. I followed your instructions, with a small bit of improvisation (Rebound cap did not have a set screw on it, so I popped it off) and upgraded my 2017 Yari 150mm fork successfully. 👍🏽✌🏾😎. I am now a SUB.
Awesome! Now you know how easy it is to do a lower leg service to keep that thing dialed!
Lower leg service: 3:26 Air spring/travel change: 8:57. top out bumper hack: 11:10
One of the best Rockshox fork service videos on UA-cam, thanks, I'll have a go on my Pike now, thanks.
Nice video, it's nice to see someone not over grease everything. Just personal prefrence but I always prefer to pull the fork, it's a good time to service your headset at the same time.
Great video thanks! Ive just taken mine apart new from factory and the circlip was on the other leg not this one. Does anyone know why this may be or just an assembly mistake?
Wow, this is the best how to service I've seen👏. I want to try this.
Well done my friend. Very informative!!! Keep up the good work!!!
Allow me to share my story with you. In the brand new YT industries bike with ROCK SHOX LYRIK, the fork was sucked in and the suspension travel was reduced. 3-4 cm of SAG was always inside the lower legs no matter what . On warranty rockshox decided that everything is ok but REPLACED the crown with the upper legs with NO SAG MEASURE. You know what I mean- those lines on one of the left upper leg with the SAG percentages. This did not solved the problem. They obviously wanted to hide the problem rather than fix it. Only after shipment to an independent suspension service in Poland (WichuWorkshop) was the AirSpring replaced. The problem has been solved, unfortunately the costs were on my side.
DO you not have to push the fork all the way into its travel when tightening set srews as there will be air left in the chamber?
When putting the bolts back onto the lowers, is there a need to release air inside first? In the video it is not shown but a cut in the scene is their where the lowers are more compressed. I feel silly for asking, is it just me?
Great tutorial, I've seen this done several times but never given it a go, reckon by following this I could get it done. Love your trick with the PVC pipe
Thanks! And it really isn't bad, just be sure you have all of the correct oil and grease and you should be good to go!
Thanks for the video, it helped me a lot.
Great video! What’s the diameter of the plastic rod you use to clean the stations out? It’s a great idea.
Awesome video. I'll do it on my pike tomorrow
Hey man I have a 2019 revelation rc with 130 mm travel. Am looking to upgrade the air spring and add more travel. Would I be able to go from 130 to say 160/170 mm travel?
This is on a marin san Quentin frame.
Cheers!
My 2021 Trek rail 7 comes with that debonair I think
New to your channel--just watched the whole thing! Nicely put together and explained very well. Thank you!
Has anyone encountered an issue with the air spring being sucked in all the way, is their a way to release the pressure
Ciao a tutti sulla turbolevo 2018 ho la forcella revelation 35 diametro 150 mm escursione se metto il nuovo debonair 2021 da 160 e compatibile e la forcella diventa 160? Grazie
170
@9:37 when the old air spring is removed. Where is the top-out bumper on the old air spring? The new air spring shows the top-out bumper.
He had mentioned that removing it was a hack to get more negative air volume, and had mentioned that he had done that in the past. The new piston was brand new and came with the bumper installed. At 12:35 you can see that he's removed that top out bumper on the new spring.
I have the 2021 Lyrik ultimate C2. Shouldn't that be 3 cc of 3wt oil on the top of the air spring? The spec sheet says 3cc but for volume it says "bleed" whatever that means, lol. If you are not greasing the air spring or removing should I lube the ID with the grease from the top? Easy enough to remove the air spring so I'll probably do that. Thanks
About those circlip pliers... what size are they and are they also compatible with circlips for the Zeb and also for Fox forks?
Hi. You are missing the rubber bumper on air piston. You removed it and forgotten to put it back.
He left it off on purpose- to increase the negative spring air chamber. Then he says he ended up putting it back on because the larger volume negative spring chamber causes the fork to be too progressive (ramps up too much at as it compresses)
hello, great video, congratulations too I have updated my 180 mm lyrik ultimate with the 2021 version I wanted to ask you if you had any set up parameters for HSC and LSC to suggest the fork is installed on an ebike I weight 90 kg then you think that is the case to remove the tokens? at the moment I put 2. Thanks
Great video. Clearly explained, good video angles. Worked perfectly. Thanks.
Ele montou faltando a borracha de retorno do parafuso debonair (batente)
Hi, so do you need to modify how much oil is in the damper if you change the spring volume to match? I can’t really see any information on google. I would imagine that for a 10% increase you probably wouldn’t notice it. However I thought I should ask
I just replaced the air spring in my 2021 Ultimate. Came 120 needed to be 140. Watching the video, I removed the top out bumper. I have not ridden yet, but all feel fine. Later to find out you put in back. Should I be concerned about damaging my new fork, and should I put the bumper back before even trying it?
@ dr. J could you go more into detail as to what that top out bumper does? Both new air spring and old?
Top out bumper prevents the air piston from slamming into the seal head when the fork goes into full EXTENSION, not full compression. Thus, the top out bumper simply prevents the red metal piece on the air spring from clanging into the black air piston when you do something like a manual and lift the front wheel quickly. Function is the same on both springs. I'm running mine in the new spring now, FYI.
Great video and covers everything thanks. Reducing my 170mm yari to 130 using new air shaft..also going to do the bumper mod. Thanks very much
Thanks! I'm not entirely sure about taking the Yari that far down in travel. I'd probably email SRAM to see if you can make that drastic of a change.
@@DrJMTB they do have a 130mm air shaft for it?? Why what issues would that cause?
Great video! The explanations and process are put together excellent. Mostly I'm glad I'm not the only one that understands beating your carbon frame with a ratchet or other tool and the benefits you'll receive 🤘
Great video! be helpful to know, do you use same syringe for injecting 0w-30 and 3wt or do you always use different syringe, or is it ok to just clean syringe with alcohol after using and use with different oil?
Thanks for the video. Nice and clear, easy to follow for those of us that like to be reassured we're not fucking up! - helps keep what is a straight forward job, straight forward!
Thanks!
Is it important to change the crush washers when reinstalling the bottom bolts in your opinion .
Great video. I plan on doing that service tonight, thanks!
Thanks! Hope it helps!
Can you please tell me when u insert the oil into the lowers do you put it into the lower leg chamber or into the air spring chamber? Do you understand what I mean?
Has anybody tried cutting the top-out bumper up in order to get a bit of the added small bump compliance and mid-stroke support without increasing the bottom-out resistance to the point you don't want any tokens in there anymore?
Fantastic vid man...very thorough!! You have yourself a new and interested subscriber!! I, too, run a 2020 Lyrik Ultimate and am nearing my first 50hr lowers service, so this couldn’t have come at a better time for me. Also planning to grab that airspring upgrade (just the upper seal and foot nut) for this first service too. One quick question, if I may.... I only have slick honey...no SRAM Butter or the Dynamic grease. Which would you recommend I pick up?
Thanks! And if you have the Lyrik Ultimate, it can take either, but I’d recommend the Dynamic grease as it is thicker and presumably lasts longer. The slick honey would do in a pinch, you just wouldn’t add the 3ml of oil on top of the spring.
You should take a look at everflow.it, it is a much better option of both the B1 and C1
Does adding travel from 160 to 170mm to a lyrik rc is problematic?the fork will be weaker or something?RockShox suggest doing it? it's just buying and installing the 2021 air spring?and it will work fine?
Thanks bro. This was super helpful.
Do you thing that I need to service lowers on a brand new yari 2021..some told me they come dry
I'm 6'2 215 would the top out hack still work for someone my size?
Has anyone else tried taking out the top out bumper ? And have it work better?
If I do the air spring service on a 2020 FS-Yari-RC-B2 170mm should I be using the dynamic seal grease or would the sram butter be fine?
SRAM butter will always be fine, but some of the newer ones (probably yours as well) can run the dynamic seal grease. Check out the Rockshox trailhead app or service archive online to check your specific fork.
So can I go from 150 to 180 and from 180 to 150 by just replacing the shaft ?
Thanks. Extremely helpul.
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I wonder why they spec oil on topmof the air spring 🤔
Not sure, but it may be to keep the top side of the air piston lubed 🤔.
It keeps initial stiction down to a minimum. It’s more viscous than the grease and will allow the air piston head to get moving more smoothly/easily from a static position when being compressed. It makes a huge difference in my Lyrik.
@@twistedneck I think you mean less viscous, i.e. thinner than the grease.
Only I noticed that he didn't put a rubber damper on?
Great video my friend 👍🏻 did you say I could use a 24mm socket to remove the air token section?
Completely depends on the model of fork. Older ones probably yes, newer ones, definitely not. The new ones use a cassette lockring tool. You better google that one for your specific fork.
Dr. J MTB yep will do cheers 👍🏻 I found one on eBay for my Lyrik 👌🏻
Was there crush washers that needed to be replaced on the bottom bolts? My kit came with some
Yes, you don’t have to every time, but I’ll usually replace them every other service or so.
Hey!
If I want to increase my lyriks travel, (its actually 160mm), I should buy this new air spring in 170 version? (I obviously want to upgrade to the new Air Spring).
Sorry I missed the comment earlier... If you want to increase travel, you should still go with a longer spring. If you don't love it with longer travel, you can always put the new bits (new seal head and foot nut) on the older 160 spring and you'd still have the new setup.
@@DrJMTB I'm about to do this exact thing. 160 to 170mm.
@@crit71 Get it! I'm about to go from 150 to 160 on my Hightower.
Thank you! Just about to do this and found your video excellent!
👍🏻👍🏻 thanks for the feedback!
Thank you. Very useful for me👍👌
Hey matey what is the advantages or taking out the top out bumper? I'm wondering if I should do it on my 140 RC revelation
Bigger negative air chamber which can help give you more progression if need be. If you feel like the fork is feeling good, I wouldn't do it. If you're bottoming out excessively, I can help give more progression without losing a supple top end.
thanks for the video! I have a 2016 Pike RCT3, could i upgrade to the latest version of Debonair, or just the previos? Rockshox said that I can't but I don't understand why....Its almost the same...what do you think?
I’d be reluctant to give you any specific compatibility advice. It would be hard to understand how the old debonair airspring would fit but not the new one.
Dr. J MTB thanks DR!
Felipe Rios 🤛🏼
Can I use Sram butter instead of dynamic seal grease on a 2021 Lyrik Ultimate? What's the differences between them? Thank you!
You can definitely use butter instead. It's my understanding that you omit the part about putting the 3ml of suspension oil on top of the air spring if you use SRAM butter instead of dynamic seal grease. The seal grease is quite a bit thicker.
@@DrJMTB Thanks! Yeah, no 3ml of suspension oil on top of the air spring if using sram butter
What would happen if I used sram butter and also put 3ml oil on top of the spring?
@@giordanocasini8696 no clue
Hi guys, great vid thanks man. Just FYI Giordano, I got confused and put the 3ml oil in the top even though I used sram butter, I haven't noticed anything, the 160mm upgrade is working fine so far.
Is the lock ring tool a standard Park FR 5.2 cassette lock ring tool or similar?
Yes it is.
@@DrJMTB Thanks. BTW love the content, keep it up!!
@@EDCFitnessLoop 👊🏼👊🏼
great video man! Thanks! Very helpeful
Thanks! Enjoy a fresh fork!
Can you go more than 10mm travel increase? Say 160mm to 180mm?
10-20mm is generally considered a safe range. Most manufactures don't recommend going any more than 20mm.
what oil is that?
Is it correct that I can't extend my rev's from 150mm to 160mm because it is a 29er?
This is what my lbs told me. Seems a bit odd because the lowers take the wheel and the air spring is in the uppers?
Help anyone?
I did it. Maybe I shouldn't have, but I did, and it seems to work well.
@@michaeldrew3044 did you just put in a 160mm airspring? And were they the newer 35mm revelations?
It was the upgraded air spring just like the video. My original Pike RC Debonair OEM on my 2019 Stumpjumper 29er was 150mm. I upgraded to the new 160mm.
I just did the upgrade for my lyrik. The sag, with the same PSI, changed from 30% to 20%. Was this your experience as well?
This is an amazing Video! Very helpful! Thank you
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Spot on video! Cheers!
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150mm you can go to 160mm right ? Then 160mm can go up to 170mm right ? How about 160mm down to 150mm Lyrik ultimate 2021 ?
yes, just get the applicable air spring
@@dangerousfox8538 have you got 160mm at home ? What's the ruler on it ?
@@Phen0mable I have a 150/160 lyrik that I'm fitting a 170 air shaft. All stanchions are the same length. Just measure your sag manually if not running travel printed on the stanchion. 👍
@@dangerousfox8538 thank you bro. I appreciate your help.
So wait, what is the downside of removing the top out bumper? Warranty? Bottom out may do damage?
It's not a bottom-out bumper, it's a top-out bumper so no chance of damage when bottoming out the suspension. It keeps the air piston from clanging against the seal head when unloaded (like when you pull up into a manual quickly). And I'm not sure about warranty. I can say that if you're apprehensive about it, the benefit to it is probably not worth it.
@@DrJMTB I left it for now. Might reconsider once I decide on tokens and get comfy with the new travel.
Sooo. If I upgrade my 2018 Revelation to the 2021 airspring and 2021 rc2.1 damper unit I would get a pike ultimate... Question is, if you actually need the dynamic grease and 3ml of oil on top of the air spring?! :D
You would definitely have the internals of a pike ultimate. And the dynamic seal grease, if I’m not mistaken, has more to do with the newer seals that are on the newer forks. If you’re not running the new seals with it, I would just use the SRAM butter. Even if you are, you can still use SRAM butter. If you do, just don’t do the 3ml on top.
@@DrJMTB That's what I don't get. I ordered the parts to do the upgrade (charger rc2 2.1 and new debonair spring). The flipchart from SRAM for the Pike Ultimate with RC2 2.1 damper says to use the dynamic seal grease on the air piston o-rings, which if I am not mistaken, are the 2 seals on the red part and the black top part. So if I upgrade I should get those newer seals as well, right? Or do I mix something up?
Just go with the Dynamic Seal Grease, Maxima Plush suspension oil and 0w30 for the lowers in any Rockshox fork and damper. Even better, use Motorex 5wt suspension fluid in dampers and Motorex Supergliss 100k in the lowers for the very best results.
It has nothing to do with newer seals, the seals are unchanged. SRAM is a marketing driven company, hence the new Super Duper Absolute Awesome Deluxe product naming. What's good for their top forks and shocks is good for their entire range.
Use the best fluids and get the best results.
@@mediasucks From the SRAM website on their Pike Ultimate page: "New ultra-low friction SKF wiper seals and Maxima Plush damping fluid all work overtime to reduce friction, silence noise, and provide lasting fork performance." "New"?
Is lyrik ultimate more compliant than fox 36 grip 2?
I'd say I would personally have a hard time picking a favorite or discerning which was which if I were blindfolded. I do feel like the Lyrik is slightly easier to set up and maybe slightly easier to service.
Dude, brilliant video. I've been questioning myself gor so long as to whether or not invest in the right tools and service my forks myself. Totally doing it now, great job!
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I’ve seen mixed reviews on the new debonair spring installed on Pike forks. People say it takes away some suppleness and feels harsh. Did you notice any difference on the ride feel before/after on your 140mm Pike?
I haven't done it on my Pike yet, only the Lyrik. But it has definitely made the Lyrik more supple for me. I've seen those reviews as well and I'm not sure what the difference is, other than it does take some time to set it up correctly after install (you can't just run the same bottomless tokens, air pressure, compression, rebound, ect.)
would be nice if you would list the part number
Everybody's part number is different for fork model and travel.
By removing the top out bumper, are you also increasing the travel by around 15mm?
No. Fair question though. Travel is dictated by the length of the air shaft.
@@DrJMTB but the length was adjusted when you remove it... so the airshaft now is longer by 15mm... correct me if im wrong...
He's just adding more air volume to the negative I think by removing the bump stop
Hi what oil you use ?
0-30
Great video! Keep it up
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You earned a subscribe from me. That video was EXCELLENT
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Great video. Very informative. 👍🏻
Thanks for watching 👊🏼
If it's 0 30 oil can I use Mobil1 0 30 ?
Some say you can, many say you can't. Motor oil is meant to maintain its properties at much higher operating temps in the internals of a motor, whereas the suspension oil is designed to have optimal performance at the temps generated by a working suspension. Also, the additives are different in motor oil. I personally just go for the RockShox oil.
Where the f is your torque wrench?
Instead of taking air spring top mount you just get valve out. No problem
For sure... unless you want to change bottomless tokens as mentioned 👍🏻
Are you sure that what you say is correct regarding the hack you mention by removing the rubber part?
I think you are wrong.
Rockshox increased the height of the red piston, in order to place the top air piston seal higher inside the stanchion in order to fine tune the position of the main air piston seal relative to the position of the equalisation channel inside the stanchion.
By removing this rubber you allow the main air piston to be placed lower inside the stanchion, so not only you place it away from the equalisation channel (contrary to what rockshox designed), but you also DECREASE the negative volume chamber while at the same time you INCREASE the positive volume chamber because as already said you allow the main air piston to sit lower inside the stanchion.
If you want to increase the negative volume chambr you have to add one more rubber like this and not remove one. These way the main air piston seal will sit even higher inside the station. This way you will increase the negative chamber but you will decrease the positive chamber. But you have to make sure that the new height is in place with the stanchion equalisation channel.
Please take me question as a positive comment, and I hope I will have a reply from you just in case I miss something here.
I really liked your video and already subscribed. :)
I do appreciate your sub 👍🏻. Let me help you understand better. When you take water out of a cup, does it decrease or increase the available volume inside the cup? Of course, it INCREASES the available volume. When you take out the bumper, this INCREASES the air volume inside the negative chamber. Think about what you do with volume spacers or REDUCERS when you put those in your fork or shock, it reduces volume. The negative air chamber actually assists the air piston up into its travel, so this will certainly not have the air piston dropping down more. If anything, it might help it sit slightly higher. The air piston naturally wants to move up with the wheel pushing it up, and this is resisted by the positive air spring pushing it back down. The negative air chamber helps you achieve sag so that your air piston doesn't get pushed all the way down by the positive spring. Watch these 2 videos where I break down this specific upgrade and where I break down MegNeg (which is a rear shock upgrade that INCREASES the negative air chamber)... ua-cam.com/video/0fr7tqya7QY/v-deo.html. and ua-cam.com/video/fMeX0nA_jYM/v-deo.html. Please be aware, I no longer run the spring without the bumper as it was actually too progressive for my liking, but the concepts definitely still apply.
@@DrJMTB thanks for yout kind reply. I totally agree with what ever you said in your reply. But what ever you said didn't prove me wrong because you dont take into consideration the movement of the air shaft when you pump air in it.
You fail to understand the fact that by removing this rubber you allow the top air piston to move lower!! So in reality you decrease thr air volume because when pumped the top air piston will move to the lowest possible position! Check this video and imagine that the black rubber you removed isnt there ua-cam.com/video/03pdywBkuNQ/v-deo.html
Its obvious that the top air piston will slide lower in the stanchion, so the negative air chamber will be srinked.
@@e-bikerides4618 No man. Sorry. The dimple still allows the air to equalize from positive to negative chambers with or without the bumper. The only time the air piston moves lower is when the wheel is unweighted such as on rebound, lifting the front wheel, etc. That's why the topout bumper is there. To prevent the air piston from pinging into the seal head when the front is unweighted rapidly. Otherwise, it does nothing other than take up volume in the negative chamber. I got the idea originally from Henry from GMBN. Do you think one of the best bike mechanics in the world is fundamentally wrong as well? See 4:11 of ua-cam.com/video/MP4SFPyITiY/v-deo.html
@@DrJMTB Then in your video ua-cam.com/video/0fr7tqya7QY/v-deo.html at 2:14 how did the top air piston seal managed to go below the green dimple?
@@e-bikerides4618 That phenomenon occurred WITH THE BUMPER INSTALLED. The fork being sucked down into its travel is actually the air piston being further distanced from seal head anyway, not closer to it.
Really curious about the performance difference of the new spring with the bumper removed. Just installed the new spring on my older Pike and it’s already an improvement.
I ended up putting mine back in if that helps. I like it as a hack on the old spring, but the new spring with it removed was too progressive for me. I was running no bottomless tokens and still couldn't bottom it out. With the bumper installed on the new spring, I'm hanging out at 2 tokens and ~22% sag and feeling great. It's easy to try, however. The most you're out is time and 20ml's of 0W-30 oil if you want to put it back in.
@@DrJMTB Hi! Could you be so kind to explain me what is the benefit of the air bump removed on the old air shaft? I'll do the upgrade ( not with the 2021 one ) in a few days.
Thanks in advance!
Daniel C In short, it’s significantly increases the negative air spring volume. This gives quite a bit more progression and if you’re really having trouble with blowing through your travel, this can help prevent bottom out and be slightly more supple off from the top. For me it was actually too much progression and the fork just felt too stiff with no volume spacers.
@@DrJMTB thanks!
Dr. J MTB Hi , I must be missing something here. How does increasing negative spring volume increase end of stroke resistance? Negative spring opposes the positive spring so making it larger should have the opposite effect... ??
Wow! I can't believe you left out the torque specs on the bottom bolts! 😢 Now I'm going to have to look it up. It was just a good video right up to that, sorry.
Wow! I can’t believe how pathetic I am either. Hopefully when you do your lower leg service video you wont forget and be as big of a joke as me...