This is why I learned to do all my own work on my bikes. You bring it to a bike shop, pay a lot of money and they don’t know what they are doing. It’s common knowledge that you don’t need that much grease on the air spring. That’s a great way to clog the equalization dimple. Glad this was recorded so others can see that just because you pay a bike shop to do the work, doesn’t mean the work will be done correctly.
Better solution. Clean seal head off completely. Mix butter and 30wt sus oil till grease un-thickins the grease. Pour .5 ml on top the seal head in the air chamber just enough to coat the head. This greatly removes stiction and does not effect the internal workings.
Well Vorsprung suspension say grease does not block the port and they slap loads of grease in. I think I will go with the opinion of one of the worlds best mtb suspension tuners.
@KramerWithAKay you should be careful with care free experimentation, some oils contain stuff that will swell or degrade certain types of rubber seals, not all seals are made of the same stuff and neither are oils
But then again he did say to do it with two products that are completely made for this application…he did not say to use motor oil and some random colored grease.
I was in the same boat - was about to give up on the air spring and go back to the old one. I'm on a 2020 Pike 140 with the C1 spring. I saw a recommendation on an MTBR thread to try cycling the fork when you inflate it from 0 every 20 PSI or so. The fork feels completely different. I had my fork running at 75 PSI and it was still feeling harsh, now I'm up at 90 PSI and it's feeling buttery smooth - like I was expecting. Might be worth giving it a shot! Good luck!
Better solution. Clean seal head off completely. Mix butter and 30wt sus oil till the oil un-thickins the grease. Pour .5 ml on top the seal head in the air chamber just enough to coat the head. This greatly removes stiction and does not effect the internal workings.
If you guys think that's WAAYYY too much grease... you should look at the Rockshox airspring service manual, they literally lather a PVC pipe in grease and stick it all in the tube
@@misterchow I did a tiny bit of googling and couldn't find any mention of the sram butter grease dissolving into the oil. Do you have a reference you could point me to?
@@misteraxeman2680 I learned it from doing technical training at SRAM's facility in Colorado Springs. Feel free to ignore me, if it isn't on the internet then it doesn't exist.
Better solution. Clean seal head off completely. Mix butter and 30wt sus oil till the oil un-thickins the grease. Pour .5 ml on top the seal head in the air chamber just enough to coat the head. This greatly removes stiction and does not effect the internal workings.
Thanks for sharing your impressions. I’ve got a 2020 Pike Ultimate on my 140mm GT Sensor. I think this new ‘upgrade’ is just RS’s way of appeasing the masses. I have it on good authority that a lot of people were call in to ask the 2020’s we’re sitting a few mm’s into their travel under the bikes weight. Their original stance was that a properly sprung fork/shock should sit into its travel under the weight of the bike. Think of a car’s suspension...you wouldn’t like the ride if it sat at the top of it’s travel. Another way to think of it is that you gain a hell of lot more confidence when stiction is easily broken and wheel is in contact with the trail. A higher sitting fork means it’s taking more force to keep the wheel down and planted. Long story short, the 2020 air spring is where it’s at!! Wake up sheeple!! ;)
@@jctrails Remove all the tokens there is 40% negative air over the last model and decreases positive air chamber size. You probably do not even need one token. Could probably run the fork on the higher air pressure side for mid stroke performance. I wis RS would share this info because it is basic physics that gets easily overlooked or misunderstood. In short, remove ALL tokens. Cheers!
Better solution. Clean seal head off completely. Mix butter and 30wt sus oil till the oil un-thickins the grease. Pour .5 ml on top the seal head in the air chamber just enough to coat the head. This greatly removes stiction and does not effect the internal workings.
A higher sitting fork means it’ll be more supple off the top and you gain sensitivity. Air springs are progressive and give less resistance the higher they are in the travel. It’s not as simple as more air = less supple.
Better solution. Clean seal head off completely. Mix butter and 30wt sus oil till grease un-thickins the grease. Pour .5 ml on top the seal head in the air chamber just enough to coat the head. This greatly removes stiction and does not effect the internal workings.
I just upgraded the c1 springs from the b1. I had it on my levo and man, that dead travel when riding steep stuff and trying to turn can be sketchy. Now that it sits at it's proper sag, you can definitely feel where that extra travel in the initial part of the stroke helps. It keeps the fork from diving into the middle of the travel much better.. I feel like it also tracks better too because the sag is finally at a proper 20/30... not 30/30.
The "more butter = more better" part is how you get suspension to not work as intended... Excessive grease does nothing but clogging oil ports and, when when added very liberally, act as an additional volume spacer.
Rider: 145 lbs Bike: 2019 Guerilla Gravity Pedalhead 27.5x2.8 Fork: 2019 Pike RC 46mm/27.5/150mm Settings (old): No tokens/75 psi/25% sag Settings (new): No tokens/68 psi/15% sag (on the trail - not current setup) Trail: 23 miles/3.6k' smooth singletracks with multiple 1-2' jumps, fire road highspeed with gravel, roots and rocks on some sections. The small bump compliance were not the same as before. It's a tad stiffer but not bad. What's bad is that the front doesn't seem to track the same and before. Before the tire felt glued to the ground on every small dips and bumps yet easy to pop whenever I want to. Now the front is still easy to pop but I don't trust leaning the bike. It's almost like the front is doing small dribbles like I need to put more rebound. Second thing I noticed was when I would land on these jumps, the frontend will dive. It's not bottoming out and I only feel this when I land from jumps which were only about 1-2' and this is on smooth transition landings. It doesn't dive on brakes or when hitting the berms. When I got home, the first thing I did was to put tokens to resist that dive feel when I land. I then set the sag to 20% and I was able to do this with 65 psi and 2 tokens. Rebound is still the same and I plan on taking the bike out sometime this week to see if I can bring it back to where it was. If I'm not able to figure out this fork, I will put the old shaft back in but instead of 150, I'd throw in the 160 to get the 10mm height and put token/s to help with mid-travel support which is the only thing I didn't have from the old fork. Keep us posted JC!
Just providing an update on this. I eventually end up putting the old non-C1 shaft back in after riding the C1 for 100 miles. I just didn't like how it felt. I now have 2020 Lyrik Select+ non-C1 and 2021 Lyrik Ultimate (C1). The 2021 Lyrik is COMPLETELY different feel than the Pikes (I had 2) with C1. The 2021 Lyrik was still very sensitive on small bumps just like the non-C1 but it stayed high in its travel. When I'm descending steep, slow tech stuff. The fork does NOT dive in. It has a very good supportive mid stroke that I'm able to run down the steep slightly faster than the fork with non-C1. It's a very good feeling. It can sometimes feel springy in the initial setup so I had to run more rebound especially for my weight and 12 psi LESS (63 vs 75). Overall, the Debonair C1 in a Lyrik is an UPGRADE compared to the Pike. These Lyrik forks are on my 2019 Stumpjumper Expert & 2020 Stumpjumper Evo Carbon.
The mechanic is right in saying the sharp side of the circlip grips the groove, but he’s fitting it the wrong way round. The sharp side must be facing the outside.
To much grease on the negative air side of the piston will make it feel harsh of the top of the travel. Even just a small amount of excessive grease here will reduce negative air volume that the Rockshox Engeneers have worked so hard at to increase with each new model. It's like adding a volume spacer to the negative side.
Johan Klopper I’ve done some research on the ole inter web and read what your saying on a MTB forum. So when I in-stalled the 140 air spring I made sure not to use too much grease on the negative side.
Better solution. Clean seal head off completely. Mix butter and 30wt sus oil till the oil un-thickins the grease. Pour .5 ml on top the seal head in the air chamber just enough to coat the head. This greatly removes stiction and does not effect the internal workings.
for me, it's way toooo much grease on assembly the new shaft! to much grease could block the dimple that equalize the negative and positive chamber! and turn suspension into a pogo stick. normally use less grease a a few drops of oil.
@@jctrails finally tried mine today Not as soft as the older debonair. Not harsh just diferent It rides Higher on travel só give more support. And for me its good to charge on the rock gardens
I have some x fusion forks had a similar problem to what you describe. Harsh off top to the point the forks are holding the bike back and no confidence in the front. I stripped them down 5 time and changed the changed the travel from 140, 160, 120, 140 and still had the same feeling. Last ditch effort if this don't work I'm going to scrap these forks. Maybe due to the nature of my forks and having a coil negative spring. I decided to build them with both air and damper shaft at fully in position then matched the lowers as if it was full bottom out. Fitted foot nuts and pumped up the fork. The forks feel so much better now off the top and sometimes sit in and sag with very small amount of weight on the bars. I'm not 100% if it's the way I inflated/built them or a simple pressure build up in the lowers. All I know is the forks feel better until I can get my hands on something better.
I have the lyrik 2019 and 2020. Idk if the 2021 air spring is different but I like the 19 model more, too. It is the moment when the wheel touches the ground. Super soft at the beginning and then nice progression. The 2020 is harsher at the beginning and then it falls 1/3 into the travel. I bought an 2019 air shaft for my gf's 2020 fork.
Shows how’s little some people in the comments know. People think more air pressure immediately adds up to a less supple feel. Air forks are progressive in nature, the less sag you’re running on an air spring the easier it will be to break through stiction and the more supple it’ll be off the top. If you’re running 30% sag you’re gonna be deep in the stroke and not have much of a supple feeling at all.
Hello. Don't know how this stem works on a 2016 yari fork. My task is to make it soft for a rider who weighs only 40kg. Maybe you can suggest something else?
reduced negative air chamber in the new setup which cleans out small bump sensitivity, more noticeable on short travel setups. so pleased i got the old debonair air spring before they sent the newones to market . if anything they need to go the other way to what they have for long travel and stay the same for short travel.
@@jctrails Are you using the air pressure recommendations from the trail head app? I confused with yur issue. Shouldn't be harsh. I'd do a lower leg service. My pike was bone dry from the factory.
I did jump and installed the upgrade kit 2021 on my Pike ultimate - the improvement was amazing. No Harsh at all. I just adjusted my rebound for 1 click slower, HSC for 2 clicks to open and remove one token - currently on one token only with 80psi (psi stay the same as before). Maybe you try to open it again and reinstall it. The plush and smoothness remains after the upgrade- it did stand a little taller.
goody portfolio I’m about the same weight as you at 79kg and pretty much the same settings. I already removed the new air spring and reinstalled it with the same results. I just can’t replicate the small bump sensitivity like the old air spring has. The Lyrik feels great though. 🤔
Sounds like all that grease blocked the dimple in your pike, preventing the negative chamber from filling with air. Too little pressure in your negative chamber = higher break-away force required + harsher midstroke. Take it apart, use about half the butter and you'll be good.
W B no I did the Pike at home. I have removed some of the grease from the Lyrik and it feels dialed with the new air spring. Can’t recommend it enough.
@@jctrails have you tried the pike without the top out bumper? It will increase the negative chamber volume a bit and should help make it like plush (and progressive. You'll probably want to remove a token if you do). I liked it on the 2019 pike
James, suggestion - It is highly recommended and would strongly suggest to have all the volume spacers removed. The newer forks with the larger negative air spring are designed to have more mid stroke support and with tons of spacers will feel harsh. I'd suggest you remove all spacers and get your support from the air spring as opposed to the damper or spacers. Upside to that is your fork will run that much more efficient as you'll actually likely have to go to more air in the fork. Unless you're riding rampage, hucking large jumps/drops or Richie Rude none of the new forks need spacers truthfully
Good info Miguel. I plan to remove all the volume spacers and take it from there. I do a lot of 3 foot drops to flat so I’m wondering if the air spring on it’s own will provide enough support.
@@jctrails Incrementally up the air pressure if you need more support till you get to a point where the small bump sensitivity is lost or simply not where you want it and proceed to then and only then add a spacer. The new Pike's and Lyrik's also have lighter compression tunes (which is why you notice and like the initial feel of the stroke as opposed to how a fox feels) just like on the new Mojo HD5 thus allows you to safely increase the air without losing the small bump sensitivity. Don't be afraid to add more air. I weigh 220lbs and run 130psi on my 2020 Pike on a levo with no volume spacers.....very last things to check would be the compression (tends to make forks feel harsh) if set too high. Again, rather get the support from the air spring. Rebound - A slow rebound will also sometimes make things feel harsh. You may need to speed things up. The ideal rebound setting is the fastest setting you can handle on the very trail you're riding on that very day as explained by a chief designer at IBIS
You probably won't need that many spacers in a short travel fork, takes up almost the whole air chamber. I would try no spacer, recommended air pressure and no compression and go from there. I have the lyrik ultimate with 2021 air spring, 10psi lower then recommended and a half token.
I also tried the 2021 debonair in my Lyrik 180 and WOW it was nice. Incredibly plush yet supportive. Much better than previous debonair. I just HAD to buy it for my pike 160. But it ended up being harsh as heck regardless of settings!! I had to go back to the old debonair. I think the harshness comes from the significantly smaller negative air chamber in the pike due to the way the piston is designed.. Rock shox probably designed the new debonair in a hurry for Lyrik and thought it would work on the pike as well. They simply cannot have tested it properly. Poor engineering....
Totally agree with this video. I cannot find a good tune on that C1 debonair in my Revelation. Even the SRAM rep told me he prefers the B1 generation debonair spring over the C1 and that the C1 was developed because of the complaints they were receiving from people stating they weren't utilizing the full travel advertised with the B1 debonair. ....C1 in my Lyric was good though.
Funny, i just "upgraded" from my old V2 5010 to a new V4 (old had a basic Fox with 130mm) and am really disappointed by the pike! First time I'm reading someone else has the same isse, usually everyone loves it! However, i didn't change anything, so it shouldn't be too much grease in it.
This video was funny! Reminded me of The Crashing Dad! Nice tech vid. Enjoyed it! Butnafter reading all the comments and replies, I'm leavong my fork alone for sure. 😊😎
I think I figured it out! So the harshness you’re feeling with the pike could be from how you pressurize the fork after install. You’re not suppose to pump in like 25psi then cycle for the negative chamber. The seal head is already past the dimple for the negative chamber so it’s just a strait fill, no need to cycle. If you do cycle it can overfill the negative chamber and act harsh like you’re experiencing. Hope that helps and if not then I tried!
Great review and thank you , I’m putting the Rct2 2.1 damper and the new airspring ( 160mm ) on my 2020 Yari ( on a Ragley MmmBop ) hardtail Just curious how you like the lyrik in general on your HT ? The Yari has been great but gets a little harsh on long chattery steeps ( why I’m upgrading )
My experience was definitely different. I didn't notice a huge performance gain, but an improvement nonetheless. Better mid stroke and I didn't lose any small bump sensitivity. If anything, small bump sensitivity was improved. My results were on a Lyrik Ultimate 150mm. ua-cam.com/video/0fr7tqya7QY/v-deo.html
Did mine nearly 2 months ago now and my 170mm Yari feels WAY better. Small drop in PSI and only 1 volume spacer at 25% sag and have 10mm travel left on 1-1.5m drops. Good upgrade if you don't want to pay for the charger damper just yet. Still playing around with pressure and spacers.
Hope you can have it sorted out bro. I am on Pike Ultimate 2020 too. Interested for this update. But after your review. I may hold my purchase of the upgrade for now
Just watched the official SRAM/Rock Shox video of this upgrade and the tech in that video uses a fair bit of grease in both the tubes and spring. I assume the commentary here about the grease is just that the quantity used here is too much? Was going to upgrade my spring tomorrow.
A bit confusing...sharp side of C clip should be closest to fitting tool as fitted - which I guess is 'down' when the fork is its normal way up. Also it is not necessary to replace the whole air spring assembly as there is a seal head kit (00.4020.573.000) which makes the upgrade a lot cheaper.
I upgraded too. My fork feels so plush.. I took all the volume spaces out as didn't need em in with the new spring. Take all the spaces out and drop a small amount of air (about 10psi) and try that. Take some grease out too..
@@thatprcrawlerguy187 I have a revelation RC 140 mm travel. How heavy are you and did you remove all the spacers? Did you upgrade the airspring and the damper too?
Same, did the same things on 140 Pike (although i had less vol spacers), just more harsh on bigger hits or jumps, not that pillow smooth landing. I'm going to try 75PSI from 85PSI. I took the LSC down as well, i am not messing w the rebound bc i have that synced w/ my suspension rebound. I definitely like the new Charger...i'm gonna give the Air Spring a few more rides. (if you find the trick pls do a short "addendum" post or IG it por favor).
New spring sits higher in the leg so positive chamber volume is decreased - about as much as one more token installed. Also it's worth checking that air channel it not blocked so the air can transfer easily to negative chamber.
More butter more better, yeah until you block the transfer port. What the hell was the huge glob of grease he shoved in there all about. If this was my fork, I'd be livid.
The shop did not do the upgrade correctly. The 2022 Rockshox install manual uses RS Dynamic Seal Grease and 3ml 0w-30 oil in the uppers and 10ml in the lowers. The instruction manual doesn't include globs of SRAM Butter
So I received my new air spring upgrade for my 2020 Pike Ultimate 140 that’s on my Revel Rascal at 9am, watched this video at 9:15 and installed it by 11. You are totally right about it being super stiff. I’m heavier at 230 with gear... previously I was running 120 psi with two tokens. I left the two tokens but to get 25 percent sag I had to drop air pressure to 75 psi. It feels great but I know RockShox doesn’t intend on I running 75 psi... I’m going to give it a few rides. Please keep us posted if you find a resolution to yours.
jroo4 wow 75psi that’s a huge drop in air pressure. I’m currently running 1 token and I’m at 65psi. The small sensitivity is coming back, but on big drops I’m bottoming the hell out of it. Those Rascals look sweet!
James I was thinking the air spring didn’t work because you already had the fork in the ultimate build. Perhaps they’re incompatible with the ultimate build spec.
Hello, Im riding on a 2020 130mm revelation with scott's twinloc system connected. Do you know if I can keep the 3 position lock after upgrading to 140mm?
It totally made my 2020 lyrik ultimate 150mm feel "buttery" off the top and had sooo much more mid stroke support than it did before. There is definitely something going on with your set up. I even added more pressure and it felt way smoother and softer. Game changer for me on my end. Sorry to hear it's not working as it should.
Ken Cycles my Lyrik feels fantastic. Much more predictable and I’m digging the added support. It’s the Pike I’m having trouble with, I installed the old air spring back in and it feels buttery smooth once again.
Hi Mate, just wondering how did you go with the pike? Made the change on my 2020 Lyrik and had positive results . Was going to do the same to my pike but hesitant now with your experience. Are you back to the old air shaft now with better results?
Hayden Le yup the Lyrik feels great with the new airspring. I put the old one back in the pike. I couldn’t get the small sensitivity I like with the new airspring. I had to remove all the volume spacers and lower the psi to get it close to the old airspring, but then the fork would bottom like crazy on 1ft drops.
I've got a 2021 air spring for my 2018 27.5 160mm fork... Which I find is harsh o_0 I bought it hoping to soften things up... Sounds like it'll just make things worse >.
Do you have the pike? I think maybe the shorter travel forks might only feel harsher with the new spring. The 150mm Lyrik feels like butter. I would still give it try it’s only 45 bucks.
Did you use the same pressures? The b1 needed a lot more pressure to get it to the proper sag which made it extremely harsh. So people would run them at 30%. While it felt soft it also dives the fork into the mid stroke most of the time, which is likely why it feels so soft. For 20% sag on the b1 I had to run 140psi (215lbs + it's on a levo) the chart had me at 105.... with the c1 I get 20% at the charts rating of 105psi. So it's spot on to what is intended. I find you have to work the fork as intended now, and it doesn't dive or pack, and tracks much better. It's a bit stiffer in the initial part of the stroke but it definitely isn't harsh..
@@_Jake.From.Statefarm_ I appreciate the info. I'm currently running the C1 at 95 and it feels pretty good. I go up or down 5 psi depending on the terrain.
Just fitted the new air spring and now I’m getting a clicking noise when I compress the fork so I stripped it back down and noticed when pressing the air spring in you can hear this kind of suction/click around the new seal head the older debonair doesn’t do this , has anyone noticed this and I’ve not used that much butter.
i got a spare 160mm debonair airspring that i wanted to use on my Pike ultimate 150 and the new upgrade kit...but sinds you got issues whit yours..im scaptic about upgrading..did you solve the issue already?
far too much grease has been applied on that shaft assembly. I know JC is saying 'Lyrik feels great' but I guarantee that in 6 months time that excess grease will have accumulated in the vicinity of the transfer port/dimple on the internal wall of the air spring stanchion and will affect the balance of the air passage between the positive and negative chambers. Most bike shops here in the UK tell me that the first thing they observe with Rockshox forks being serviced for their first time is just how much grease the production factory uses and its detrimental impact on the air balancing.
Good to know maybe I will open it up and take some out. When I changed out the Pike’s air spring I didn’t put as nearly as much as Randall did because I don’t have that much butter at home. I’m still having trouble setting up the Pike. I can’t get that buttery smooth feeling like I had with the old air spring. I’m at 0 tokens, wide open on the compression, and 20 psi lower than before. It still feels harsher than before on the initial stroke and it now bottoms like crazy on tiny drops. 😤
Im finding the grease used in the air chamber get dislodged and clumps up. Sits on top the air chamber head and is effectively taken offline. Solution::::: remove air, take off air chamber cap, clean seal head, take grease and 30wt oil and mix till grease unthickens. Pour in .5 ml of this mixture on top the air chamber seal head. Just enough to coat the top of the seal head. Thats it. Stiction now severely reduced.
With the New 2021 Lyrik I found less tokens about 10psi higher then normal. At this time 150mm Lyrik I’m 135lbs (1) Token. 73psi (1) click HSC from fully open 1-2 clicks LSC from fully open 11 clicks rebound If I go to the bike park I’ll up the HSC to (2) click. Fork fills great. My old Lyrik I run 2-3 Tokens 50psi Only 2-3 clicks of LSC from fully closed I find with the New Lyrik I’m using the fork better for what is is intended for instead of relying on the Tokens. Hope this helps.
what about applying ow-30 oil to spring shaft, above the seal head? is this neccessary or OTT? refer p 16 www.sramconnect.com/globalassets/document-hierarchy/service-manuals/rockshox/front-suspension/gen.0000000005734-service-manual-debonair-upgrade-kit.pdf
Better solution. Clean seal head off completely. Mix butter and 30wt sus oil till the oil un-thickins the grease. Pour .5 ml on top the seal head in the air chamber just enough to coat the head. This greatly removes stiction and does not effect the internal workings.
Too much and the wrong kind of grease, you should be using Rockshox dynamic seal grease and 0w-30 oil. You only apply grease to the seals then oil to the shaft, you apply grease to the inside of the uppers, you don't put a glob of grease above the airspring it is supposed to get 3ml of 0w-30. "Those guys at Rockshox really know what they're doing" then perhaps you should read the service manual they put out.
I would bet money they there is WAY too much grease on the PIKE and air cannot flow between the positive and negative chambers. The only thing the new airspring does is change the point at which the seal heads meets the dimple. The airspring wants to equalize positive and negative chambers and that is when the seal head is sits right around the stanchion dimples. I find the airsprings work best if you use little grease and clean then every 50 hour service. If you take it apart, remove the valve core, I bet the airspring will suck up into the fork because there is air stuck on the negative side. Use less grease and it should ride buttery smooth!
Caleb Gregg I installed the Pike air spring myself with way less grease, zero volume spacers 10psi less air pressure and still doesn’t feel as good as the old air spring and it now bottoms out on 1 ft drops. I opened up the Lyrik and removed some of the grease and I have it dialed - with 2 volume spacers and at 85psi with 3 clicks of low speed compression / 3 clicks out from the fastest setting on the rebound. I highly recommend the updated air spring for the Lyrik I can’t so much for the Pike. I’m trying to get it to work and if I do I will definitely pass that info on to you guys.
@@starsky8351 I looked it up for you. From Castrol's website: "You might think that the 'W' in a motor oil's viscosity description stands for Weight, but that's just a common misconception. It actually stands for Winter. " www.castrol.com/en_gb/united-kingdom/home/car-engine-oil-and-fluids/engine-oils/engine-oil-viscosity-grades/0w-40.html
This is why I learned to do all my own work on my bikes. You bring it to a bike shop, pay a lot of money and they don’t know what they are doing. It’s common knowledge that you don’t need that much grease on the air spring. That’s a great way to clog the equalization dimple. Glad this was recorded so others can see that just because you pay a bike shop to do the work, doesn’t mean the work will be done correctly.
Better solution.
Clean seal head off completely.
Mix butter and 30wt sus oil till grease un-thickins the grease. Pour .5 ml on top the seal head in the air chamber just enough to coat the head. This greatly removes stiction and does not effect the internal workings.
Yeah this guy is is not very good at all.
Well Vorsprung suspension say grease does not block the port and they slap loads of grease in. I think I will go with the opinion of one of the worlds best mtb suspension tuners.
@KramerWithAKay you should be careful with care free experimentation, some oils contain stuff that will swell or degrade certain types of rubber seals, not all seals are made of the same stuff and neither are oils
But then again he did say to do it with two products that are completely made for this application…he did not say to use motor oil and some random colored grease.
I was in the same boat - was about to give up on the air spring and go back to the old one. I'm on a 2020 Pike 140 with the C1 spring. I saw a recommendation on an MTBR thread to try cycling the fork when you inflate it from 0 every 20 PSI or so. The fork feels completely different. I had my fork running at 75 PSI and it was still feeling harsh, now I'm up at 90 PSI and it's feeling buttery smooth - like I was expecting. Might be worth giving it a shot! Good luck!
Better solution.
Clean seal head off completely.
Mix butter and 30wt sus oil till the oil un-thickins the grease. Pour .5 ml on top the seal head in the air chamber just enough to coat the head. This greatly removes stiction and does not effect the internal workings.
the sharp part must be oriented towards you, because the air pushes the safety outwards
right
Yea i was thinking the sram service manual was saying C clip sharp part facing out not in like this guy was saying .
This guy is clueless
If you guys think that's WAAYYY too much grease... you should look at the Rockshox airspring service manual, they literally lather a PVC pipe in grease and stick it all in the tube
The reason why you should use SRAM Butter and not whatever grease is that SRAM Butter will dissolve in oil. No clumps, no clogging.
@@misterchow interesting I didn't know that Sram butter dissolved in oil very interesting
@@misterchow I did a tiny bit of googling and couldn't find any mention of the sram butter grease dissolving into the oil. Do you have a reference you could point me to?
@@misteraxeman2680 I learned it from doing technical training at SRAM's facility in Colorado Springs. Feel free to ignore me, if it isn't on the internet then it doesn't exist.
Better solution.
Clean seal head off completely.
Mix butter and 30wt sus oil till the oil un-thickins the grease. Pour .5 ml on top the seal head in the air chamber just enough to coat the head. This greatly removes stiction and does not effect the internal workings.
I felt a big upgrade on my lyrik. No initial lag and could feel the fork through the entire travel
Thanks for sharing your impressions. I’ve got a 2020 Pike Ultimate on my 140mm GT Sensor. I think this new ‘upgrade’ is just RS’s way of appeasing the masses. I have it on good authority that a lot of people were call in to ask the 2020’s we’re sitting a few mm’s into their travel under the bikes weight. Their original stance was that a properly sprung fork/shock should sit into its travel under the weight of the bike. Think of a car’s suspension...you wouldn’t like the ride if it sat at the top of it’s travel. Another way to think of it is that you gain a hell of lot more confidence when stiction is easily broken and wheel is in contact with the trail. A higher sitting fork means it’s taking more force to keep the wheel down and planted.
Long story short, the 2020 air spring is where it’s at!! Wake up sheeple!! ;)
Waterburyfixit I’m still messing around with the new air spring in my pike. I’m one ride away from putting the old one back in.
Yes, negative travel has its place!
@@jctrails Remove all the tokens there is 40% negative air over the last model and decreases positive air chamber size. You probably do not even need one token. Could probably run the fork on the higher air pressure side for mid stroke performance. I wis RS would share this info because it is basic physics that gets easily overlooked or misunderstood. In short, remove ALL tokens. Cheers!
Better solution.
Clean seal head off completely.
Mix butter and 30wt sus oil till the oil un-thickins the grease. Pour .5 ml on top the seal head in the air chamber just enough to coat the head. This greatly removes stiction and does not effect the internal workings.
A higher sitting fork means it’ll be more supple off the top and you gain sensitivity. Air springs are progressive and give less resistance the higher they are in the travel. It’s not as simple as more air = less supple.
Do not use this much SRAM butter! Transfer port will soon block up!
I was going to say, might as well fill the whole leg up with butter. JESUS
Better solution.
Clean seal head off completely.
Mix butter and 30wt sus oil till grease un-thickins the grease. Pour .5 ml on top the seal head in the air chamber just enough to coat the head. This greatly removes stiction and does not effect the internal workings.
@@Hawlkeye-e9p the manual even calls for 3ml of 0w-30 on top of the air piston
@@RemedyTalon depends if you use butter or rockshocks dynamic
I made this exact mistake, fork felt more stiction and couldn't get it to equalize.
I just upgraded the c1 springs from the b1. I had it on my levo and man, that dead travel when riding steep stuff and trying to turn can be sketchy. Now that it sits at it's proper sag, you can definitely feel where that extra travel in the initial part of the stroke helps. It keeps the fork from diving into the middle of the travel much better.. I feel like it also tracks better too because the sag is finally at a proper 20/30... not 30/30.
The "more butter = more better" part is how you get suspension to not work as intended... Excessive grease does nothing but clogging oil ports and, when when added very liberally, act as an additional volume spacer.
PredatorDK funny how the Lyrik he put all that grease on feels perfect 🤔.
PredatorDK also I put the old air spring back in the Pike and it immediately feels better in all riding scenarios.
@@jctrails Luck - and may even change. "The more butter the better" is purely wrong!
yeah i cringed at this "mechanic" when he said it
Rider: 145 lbs
Bike: 2019 Guerilla Gravity Pedalhead 27.5x2.8
Fork: 2019 Pike RC 46mm/27.5/150mm
Settings (old): No tokens/75 psi/25% sag
Settings (new): No tokens/68 psi/15% sag (on the trail - not current setup)
Trail: 23 miles/3.6k' smooth singletracks with multiple 1-2' jumps, fire road highspeed with gravel, roots and rocks on some sections.
The small bump compliance were not the same as before. It's a tad stiffer but not bad. What's bad is that the front doesn't seem to track the same and before. Before the tire felt glued to the ground on every small dips and bumps yet easy to pop whenever I want to. Now the front is still easy to pop but I don't trust leaning the bike. It's almost like the front is doing small dribbles like I need to put more rebound. Second thing I noticed was when I would land on these jumps, the frontend will dive. It's not bottoming out and I only feel this when I land from jumps which were only about 1-2' and this is on smooth transition landings. It doesn't dive on brakes or when hitting the berms.
When I got home, the first thing I did was to put tokens to resist that dive feel when I land. I then set the sag to 20% and I was able to do this with 65 psi and 2 tokens. Rebound is still the same and I plan on taking the bike out sometime this week to see if I can bring it back to where it was. If I'm not able to figure out this fork, I will put the old shaft back in but instead of 150, I'd throw in the 160 to get the 10mm height and put token/s to help with mid-travel support which is the only thing I didn't have from the old fork.
Keep us posted JC!
Just providing an update on this. I eventually end up putting the old non-C1 shaft back in after riding the C1 for 100 miles. I just didn't like how it felt. I now have 2020 Lyrik Select+ non-C1 and 2021 Lyrik Ultimate (C1). The 2021 Lyrik is COMPLETELY different feel than the Pikes (I had 2) with C1. The 2021 Lyrik was still very sensitive on small bumps just like the non-C1 but it stayed high in its travel. When I'm descending steep, slow tech stuff. The fork does NOT dive in. It has a very good supportive mid stroke that I'm able to run down the steep slightly faster than the fork with non-C1. It's a very good feeling. It can sometimes feel springy in the initial setup so I had to run more rebound especially for my weight and 12 psi LESS (63 vs 75). Overall, the Debonair C1 in a Lyrik is an UPGRADE compared to the Pike.
These Lyrik forks are on my 2019 Stumpjumper Expert & 2020 Stumpjumper Evo Carbon.
The mechanic is right in saying the sharp side of the circlip grips the groove, but he’s fitting it the wrong way round. The sharp side must be facing the outside.
That final globe of grease was unnecessary.Too much grease.Thanks for the video anyways👍
To much grease on the negative air side of the piston will make it feel harsh of the top of the travel. Even just a small amount of excessive grease here will reduce negative air volume that the Rockshox Engeneers have worked so hard at to increase with each new model. It's like adding a volume spacer to the negative side.
Johan Klopper I’ve done some research on the ole inter web and read what your saying on a MTB forum. So when I in-stalled the 140 air spring I made sure not to use too much grease on the negative side.
Better solution.
Clean seal head off completely.
Mix butter and 30wt sus oil till the oil un-thickins the grease. Pour .5 ml on top the seal head in the air chamber just enough to coat the head. This greatly removes stiction and does not effect the internal workings.
for me, it's way toooo much grease on assembly the new shaft! to much grease could block the dimple that equalize the negative and positive chamber! and turn suspension into a pogo stick. normally use less grease a a few drops of oil.
Nuno Machuqueiro lyrik feels great with all the grease
Nuno Machuqueiro I was thinking the same thing. Too much grease.
@@chrispemberton4931 too much butter on that bread yes.
@@jctrails now you got me thinking! was about to upgrade the shaft this weekend and now not that sure.
@@jctrails finally tried mine today
Not as soft as the older debonair.
Not harsh just diferent
It rides Higher on travel só give more support.
And for me its good to charge on the rock gardens
I have some x fusion forks had a similar problem to what you describe. Harsh off top to the point the forks are holding the bike back and no confidence in the front.
I stripped them down 5 time and changed the changed the travel from 140, 160, 120, 140 and still had the same feeling.
Last ditch effort if this don't work I'm going to scrap these forks.
Maybe due to the nature of my forks and having a coil negative spring.
I decided to build them with both air and damper shaft at fully in position then matched the lowers as if it was full bottom out.
Fitted foot nuts and pumped up the fork.
The forks feel so much better now off the top and sometimes sit in and sag with very small amount of weight on the bars.
I'm not 100% if it's the way I inflated/built them or a simple pressure build up in the lowers.
All I know is the forks feel better until I can get my hands on something better.
I have the lyrik 2019 and 2020. Idk if the 2021 air spring is different but I like the 19 model more, too. It is the moment when the wheel touches the ground. Super soft at the beginning and then nice progression. The 2020 is harsher at the beginning and then it falls 1/3 into the travel.
I bought an 2019 air shaft for my gf's 2020 fork.
Shows how’s little some people in the comments know. People think more air pressure immediately adds up to a less supple feel. Air forks are progressive in nature, the less sag you’re running on an air spring the easier it will be to break through stiction and the more supple it’ll be off the top. If you’re running 30% sag you’re gonna be deep in the stroke and not have much of a supple feeling at all.
Hello. Don't know how this stem works on a 2016 yari fork. My task is to make it soft for a rider who weighs only 40kg. Maybe you can suggest something else?
reduced negative air chamber in the new setup which cleans out small bump sensitivity, more noticeable on short travel setups. so pleased i got the old debonair air spring before they sent the newones to market . if anything they need to go the other way to what they have for long travel and stay the same for short travel.
70, 80, 90++ psi guys!!! No little bit of grease is going to block a hole or dimple and hold all that pressure back..
My pike at 130 with 3 spacers rode very hard. I went to a single volume spacer and it's wonderful.
I’m down to one spacer with the new air spring and still feels harsher than old 2020 air spring with 3 spacers. I also reduced air pressure 5 psi🤔
@@jctrails Are you using the air pressure recommendations from the trail head app? I confused with yur issue. Shouldn't be harsh. I'd do a lower leg service. My pike was bone dry from the factory.
@@ewartbuilt660 does the act of installing the air spring not effectively include a lower leg service?
Nicholas Stanfield I noticed that mechanics didn’t even do a lower leg service.
I did jump and installed the upgrade kit 2021 on my Pike ultimate - the improvement was amazing. No Harsh at all. I just adjusted my rebound for 1 click slower, HSC for 2 clicks to open and remove one token - currently on one token only with 80psi (psi stay the same as before). Maybe you try to open it again and reinstall it.
The plush and smoothness remains after the upgrade- it did stand a little taller.
goody portfolio cool. How much do you weigh?
JC TRAILS im at riding weight of 82kg
goody portfolio I’m about the same weight as you at 79kg and pretty much the same settings. I already removed the new air spring and reinstalled it with the same results. I just can’t replicate the small bump sensitivity like the old air spring has. The Lyrik feels great though. 🤔
JC TRAILS oh my... have you reached out to Rockshox- Sram support? Maybe they have resolution to this.
Sounds like all that grease blocked the dimple in your pike, preventing the negative chamber from filling with air. Too little pressure in your negative chamber = higher break-away force required + harsher midstroke. Take it apart, use about half the butter and you'll be good.
W B the Lyrik has all the grease. The pike was properly greased just feels like crap
W B or I should say a sac of potatoes
@@jctrails ah thought the pike'd have been serviced at the same shop
W B no I did the Pike at home. I have removed some of the grease from the Lyrik and it feels dialed with the new air spring. Can’t recommend it enough.
@@jctrails have you tried the pike without the top out bumper? It will increase the negative chamber volume a bit and should help make it like plush (and progressive. You'll probably want to remove a token if you do). I liked it on the 2019 pike
James, suggestion - It is highly recommended and would strongly suggest to have all the volume spacers removed. The newer forks with the larger negative air spring are designed to have more mid stroke support and with tons of spacers will feel harsh. I'd suggest you remove all spacers and get your support from the air spring as opposed to the damper or spacers. Upside to that is your fork will run that much more efficient as you'll actually likely have to go to more air in the fork. Unless you're riding rampage, hucking large jumps/drops or Richie Rude none of the new forks need spacers truthfully
Good info Miguel. I plan to remove all the volume spacers and take it from there. I do a lot of 3 foot drops to flat so I’m wondering if the air spring on it’s own will provide enough support.
Miguel Navarro only one way to find out time to huck!
@@jctrails Incrementally up the air pressure if you need more support till you get to a point where the small bump sensitivity is lost or simply not where you want it and proceed to then and only then add a spacer. The new Pike's and Lyrik's also have lighter compression tunes (which is why you notice and like the initial feel of the stroke as opposed to how a fox feels) just like on the new Mojo HD5 thus allows you to safely increase the air without losing the small bump sensitivity. Don't be afraid to add more air. I weigh 220lbs and run 130psi on my 2020 Pike on a levo with no volume spacers.....very last things to check would be the compression (tends to make forks feel harsh) if set too high. Again, rather get the support from the air spring. Rebound - A slow rebound will also sometimes make things feel harsh. You may need to speed things up. The ideal rebound setting is the fastest setting you can handle on the very trail you're riding on that very day as explained by a chief designer at IBIS
I would like to try this air spring on my lyrik. When upgrading from a 2016 pike to 2020 lyrik I had to drop in pressure and number of tokens.
Anthony Zrillo definitely give it a try. Works great with the Lyrik.
You probably won't need that many spacers in a short travel fork, takes up almost the whole air chamber.
I would try no spacer, recommended air pressure and no compression and go from there.
I have the lyrik ultimate with 2021 air spring, 10psi lower then recommended and a half token.
I work In a bike shop having that much grease in the air spring is the most common problem I solve with fork suck down.
kareemancher removed all the excess grease working great on the Lyrik
@@jctrails So it doesn't feel harsh anymore? Maybe edit the video title or something.
You don't need to cycle the fork with the new air spring. The seal head sits on top of the equalisation port letting air in both chambers.
Chris I think he did it out of habit
I also tried the 2021 debonair in my Lyrik 180 and WOW it was nice. Incredibly plush yet supportive. Much better than previous debonair. I just HAD to buy it for my pike 160. But it ended up being harsh as heck regardless of settings!! I had to go back to the old debonair. I think the harshness comes from the significantly smaller negative air chamber in the pike due to the way the piston is designed.. Rock shox probably designed the new debonair in a hurry for Lyrik and thought it would work on the pike as well. They simply cannot have tested it properly. Poor engineering....
Lonely mtb rider yeah it feels fantastic on the Lyrik. The pike is way to harsh with the new spring, I returned it back to RS.
@@jctrails did you ever get the Pike sorted out??
Totally agree with this video. I cannot find a good tune on that C1 debonair in my Revelation. Even the SRAM rep told me he prefers the B1 generation debonair spring over the C1 and that the C1 was developed because of the complaints they were receiving from people stating they weren't utilizing the full travel advertised with the B1 debonair. ....C1 in my Lyric was good though.
Could anyone link a guide for changing just the sealhead not the whole spring? Looks fairly straightforward just want to make sure I'm doing it right
Sounds like your negative air chamber isn't charging, hence why it feels harsh.
Funny, i just "upgraded" from my old V2 5010 to a new V4 (old had a basic Fox with 130mm) and am really disappointed by the pike! First time I'm reading someone else has the same isse, usually everyone loves it!
However, i didn't change anything, so it shouldn't be too much grease in it.
This video was funny! Reminded me of The Crashing Dad! Nice tech vid. Enjoyed it! Butnafter reading all the comments and replies, I'm leavong my fork alone for sure. 😊😎
This guy is not a mechanic 🧰 he’s a chef 👨🍳 cooking a butter cream butter smoothie!!!🤣🤣🤣🤣🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈
I think I figured it out! So the harshness you’re feeling with the pike could be from how you pressurize the fork after install. You’re not suppose to pump in like 25psi then cycle for the negative chamber. The seal head is already past the dimple for the negative chamber so it’s just a strait fill, no need to cycle. If you do cycle it can overfill the negative chamber and act harsh like you’re experiencing. Hope that helps and if not then I tried!
Great review and thank you , I’m putting the Rct2 2.1 damper and the new airspring ( 160mm ) on my 2020 Yari ( on a Ragley MmmBop ) hardtail
Just curious how you like the lyrik in general on your HT ? The Yari has been great but gets a little harsh on long chattery steeps
( why I’m upgrading )
Not sure I'd this was said but it sounds like the negative chamber wasn't set up properly on the pike.
My experience was definitely different. I didn't notice a huge performance gain, but an improvement nonetheless. Better mid stroke and I didn't lose any small bump sensitivity. If anything, small bump sensitivity was improved. My results were on a Lyrik Ultimate 150mm. ua-cam.com/video/0fr7tqya7QY/v-deo.html
Did mine nearly 2 months ago now and my 170mm Yari feels WAY better. Small drop in PSI and only 1 volume spacer at 25% sag and have 10mm travel left on 1-1.5m drops. Good upgrade if you don't want to pay for the charger damper just yet. Still playing around with pressure and spacers.
Old post, but FYI, He had the same results as you with the lyrik. his complaints were about the pike.
Thanks sharing experience. Bummer about Pike. Let us know if you work it out. Probably help a lot of riders.
50mtb I’m going to keep messing with it. Hopefully I can find the right settings
@@jctrails I beleive you will. Keep rocking.
Hope you can have it sorted out bro. I am on Pike Ultimate 2020 too. Interested for this update. But after your review. I may hold my purchase of the upgrade for now
Just watched the official SRAM/Rock Shox video of this upgrade and the tech in that video uses a fair bit of grease in both the tubes and spring. I assume the commentary here about the grease is just that the quantity used here is too much? Was going to upgrade my spring tomorrow.
A bit confusing...sharp side of C clip should be closest to fitting tool as fitted - which I guess is 'down' when the fork is its normal way up. Also it is not necessary to replace the whole air spring assembly as there is a seal head kit (00.4020.573.000) which makes the upgrade a lot cheaper.
I upgraded too. My fork feels so plush.. I took all the volume spaces out as didn't need em in with the new spring. Take all the spaces out and drop a small amount of air (about 10psi) and try that. Take some grease out too..
Paulmtb exactly how I installed mine in my revelation
@@thatprcrawlerguy187 I have a revelation RC 140 mm travel. How heavy are you and did you remove all the spacers? Did you upgrade the airspring and the damper too?
Same, did the same things on 140 Pike (although i had less vol spacers), just more harsh on bigger hits or jumps, not that pillow smooth landing. I'm going to try 75PSI from 85PSI. I took the LSC down as well, i am not messing w the rebound bc i have that synced w/ my suspension rebound. I definitely like the new Charger...i'm gonna give the Air Spring a few more rides. (if you find the trick pls do a short "addendum" post or IG it por favor).
I’m one ride away from installing the old one back in.
@@jctrails so did you? :S I have just bought a brand spanking new pike ultimate with the ne air spring and have felt the exact same about harshness...
New spring sits higher in the leg so positive chamber volume is decreased - about as much as one more token installed. Also it's worth checking that air channel it not blocked so the air can transfer easily to negative chamber.
More butter more better, yeah until you block the transfer port.
What the hell was the huge glob of grease he shoved in there all about.
If this was my fork, I'd be livid.
Hey dude, the sharp side of the retaining ring is supposed to face outwards. You put it inwards, can check rockshox instructions yourself...
Maybe have it rechecked at the shop?
hey mate great video, question what was the size in mm of the spring and the travel of your forks?
The shop did not do the upgrade correctly. The 2022 Rockshox install manual uses RS Dynamic Seal Grease and 3ml 0w-30 oil in the uppers and 10ml in the lowers. The instruction manual doesn't include globs of SRAM Butter
So I received my new air spring upgrade for my 2020 Pike Ultimate 140 that’s on my Revel Rascal at 9am, watched this video at 9:15 and installed it by 11. You are totally right about it being super stiff. I’m heavier at 230 with gear... previously I was running 120 psi with two tokens. I left the two tokens but to get 25 percent sag I had to drop air pressure to 75 psi. It feels great but I know RockShox doesn’t intend on I running 75 psi... I’m going to give it a few rides. Please keep us posted if you find a resolution to yours.
jroo4 wow 75psi that’s a huge drop in air pressure. I’m currently running 1 token and I’m at 65psi. The small sensitivity is coming back, but on big drops I’m bottoming the hell out of it. Those Rascals look sweet!
James I was thinking the air spring didn’t work because you already had the fork in the ultimate build. Perhaps they’re incompatible with the ultimate build spec.
Hello, Im riding on a 2020 130mm revelation with scott's twinloc system connected.
Do you know if I can keep the 3 position lock after upgrading to 140mm?
Negative and positive sides didn't equalize maybe?
Max Wharin I checked that. Also the new air spring is suppose to prevent that.
You should take a look at everflow.it, it is a much better option of both the B1 and C1
so on a 2018+140mm revelation would you stick with the stock debonair or upgrade to the 2021 ?
Did you get the Pike to feel any better with the new airspring?
I'm reading different numbers for how much lower leg oil to put in - did you dobule check the 10ml on the spring side number?
I just did the upgrade for my lyrik. The sag, with the same PSI, changed from 30% to 20%. Was this your experience as well?
the fart noise LMAO!!! Perfect timing!
Can i convert a Rockshox 35 Tk Silver coil to Soloair or Debonair?
At 150mm travel pike or Lyrik for a bigboi?
It totally made my 2020 lyrik ultimate 150mm feel "buttery" off the top and had sooo much more mid stroke support than it did before. There is definitely something going on with your set up. I even added more pressure and it felt way smoother and softer. Game changer for me on my end. Sorry to hear it's not working as it should.
Ken Cycles my Lyrik feels fantastic. Much more predictable and I’m digging the added support. It’s the Pike I’m having trouble with, I installed the old air spring back in and it feels buttery smooth once again.
@@jctrails damn I missed that part! You would assume it would have the same effect! What the hell RockShox!!!
circlip sharp side faces outwards, not down!
Hi JC what's your latest setup for pike?
Dont you change both air springs?
I’m wanting to put this upgrade on my Lyrik 170 for the v2 Ripmo. James, did you purchase the parts from WWC?
Travel the Narrow Trail I had my local shop Bike Barn order them for me. It will feel great on your Lyrik.
Hi Mate, just wondering how did you go with the pike? Made the change on my 2020 Lyrik and had positive results . Was going to do the same to my pike but hesitant now with your experience. Are you back to the old air shaft now with better results?
Hayden Le yup the Lyrik feels great with the new airspring. I put the old one back in the pike. I couldn’t get the small sensitivity I like with the new airspring. I had to remove all the volume spacers and lower the psi to get it close to the old airspring, but then the fork would bottom like crazy on 1ft drops.
I installed mine on my revelation 130mm and couldn’t be happier. I run no volume spacers.
Julio Nieves do you do drops with it? I tried 0 volume spacers and bottoms terribly.
@@jctrails try on 130mm 3 volume 90 psi should work good
I've got a 2021 air spring for my 2018 27.5 160mm fork... Which I find is harsh o_0
I bought it hoping to soften things up... Sounds like it'll just make things worse >.
Do you have the pike? I think maybe the shorter travel forks might only feel harsher with the new spring. The 150mm Lyrik feels like butter. I would still give it try it’s only 45 bucks.
@@jctrails oops! I have a Lyrik.
They are compatible with boxxer 35mm? DANKE.
I have the lyric 150 going to 160mm. How much did your bike shop charge to do the change. Thanks
Full disclosure I got it for free, but I think they charge like $45-50.
I heavily prefer the b1. The c1 is extremely harsh imo
Did you use the same pressures? The b1 needed a lot more pressure to get it to the proper sag which made it extremely harsh. So people would run them at 30%. While it felt soft it also dives the fork into the mid stroke most of the time, which is likely why it feels so soft. For 20% sag on the b1 I had to run 140psi (215lbs + it's on a levo) the chart had me at 105....
with the c1 I get 20% at the charts rating of 105psi. So it's spot on to what is intended. I find you have to work the fork as intended now, and it doesn't dive or pack, and tracks much better. It's a bit stiffer in the initial part of the stroke but it definitely isn't harsh..
@@_Jake.From.Statefarm_ I appreciate the info. I'm currently running the C1 at 95 and it feels pretty good. I go up or down 5 psi depending on the terrain.
how to order the airshaft
I have a 130 mm pike. Can I go up with more travel with this 2021 debonair?
Yes, as long as you dont exceed the maximum for your fork. You just order the spring for the desired travel.
You want some toast with your butter 🧈😂😂😂😂🤘🏾🤦🏽♂️
Some weird things I saw here: release of air mega fast, a lot of grease and super tight rebound knob...i hope you can turn more than 3 clicks hehehe
Surprised you don't torque the bolts ?
0 spacers 😇 less grease . Oh and new skf seals
Holly fukken butter, hahahahaaaa, this guy went all out with the butter, that's a dimple clog for sure
Just fitted the new air spring and now I’m getting a clicking noise when I compress the fork so I stripped it back down and noticed when pressing the air spring in you can hear this kind of suction/click around the new seal head the older debonair doesn’t do this , has anyone noticed this and I’ve not used that much butter.
I've actually noticed something similar. Have you figured out exactly what's causing it or fixed it?
MTB Josh I have sorted it I think it was to much grease and the noise was grease in the little air indent inside the the upper
Seen less grease on a trailer hitch! 😳
i got a spare 160mm debonair airspring that i wanted to use on my Pike ultimate 150 and the new upgrade kit...but sinds you got issues whit yours..im scaptic about upgrading..did you solve the issue already?
It sounds like his negative air chamber isn't filling which would result in a very harsh ride like he describes. No wonder with this much butter
At that rate, the bike shop must be going through pounds of Sram butter every year 😂
For 130mm take out all the tokens and dial it from there
far too much grease has been applied on that shaft assembly. I know JC is saying 'Lyrik feels great' but I guarantee that in 6 months time that excess grease will have accumulated in the vicinity of the transfer port/dimple on the internal wall of the air spring stanchion and will affect the balance of the air passage between the positive and negative chambers. Most bike shops here in the UK tell me that the first thing they observe with Rockshox forks being serviced for their first time is just how much grease the production factory uses and its detrimental impact on the air balancing.
Good to know maybe I will open it up and take some out. When I changed out the Pike’s air spring I didn’t put as nearly as much as Randall did because I don’t have that much butter at home. I’m still having trouble setting up the Pike. I can’t get that buttery smooth feeling like I had with the old air spring. I’m at 0 tokens, wide open on the compression, and 20 psi lower than before. It still feels harsher than before on the initial stroke and it now bottoms like crazy on tiny drops. 😤
Im finding the grease used in the air chamber get dislodged and clumps up. Sits on top the air chamber head and is effectively taken offline.
Solution::::: remove air, take off air chamber cap, clean seal head, take grease and 30wt oil and mix till grease unthickens. Pour in .5 ml of this mixture on top the air chamber seal head. Just enough to coat the top of the seal head.
Thats it. Stiction now severely reduced.
Is this the 2.1 damper?
Charlie Winfield yup both pike and Lyrik have the 2.1 damper
With the New 2021 Lyrik I found less tokens about 10psi higher then normal.
At this time 150mm Lyrik
I’m 135lbs
(1) Token.
73psi
(1) click HSC from fully open
1-2 clicks LSC from fully open
11 clicks rebound
If I go to the bike park I’ll up the HSC to (2) click.
Fork fills great.
My old Lyrik I run 2-3 Tokens
50psi
Only 2-3 clicks of LSC from fully closed
I find with the New Lyrik I’m using the fork better for what is is intended for instead of relying on the Tokens.
Hope this helps.
Cool good info thanks!🤘
@4:23 next time get only valve out 🤷🏻♂️
Try zero spacers?
Benjamin Earley that’s my next step.
Don’t bash the mechanic too hard he did his best :-(
JJ Russo seriously.
remove tokens and add more butter
You should have had Chicklowski in the video.
That ”mechanic” but about 50 times more grease in the fork than recommended, i’m not even kidding. That thing is not going to perform as it should.
what about applying ow-30 oil to spring shaft, above the seal head? is this neccessary or OTT? refer p 16 www.sramconnect.com/globalassets/document-hierarchy/service-manuals/rockshox/front-suspension/gen.0000000005734-service-manual-debonair-upgrade-kit.pdf
Yeah, remind me never to let this guy near my forks…ever.
0-30W Synthetic or mineral?
Better solution.
Clean seal head off completely.
Mix butter and 30wt sus oil till the oil un-thickins the grease. Pour .5 ml on top the seal head in the air chamber just enough to coat the head. This greatly removes stiction and does not effect the internal workings.
Too much and the wrong kind of grease, you should be using Rockshox dynamic seal grease and 0w-30 oil. You only apply grease to the seals then oil to the shaft, you apply grease to the inside of the uppers, you don't put a glob of grease above the airspring it is supposed to get 3ml of 0w-30. "Those guys at Rockshox really know what they're doing" then perhaps you should read the service manual they put out.
paradox963 it’s all been fixed and the Lyrik feels fantastic. I need help setting up the Pike with the new airspring
"Shaft"
Samuel L. Jackson enters the chat
I would bet money they there is WAY too much grease on the PIKE and air cannot flow between the positive and negative chambers. The only thing the new airspring does is change the point at which the seal heads meets the dimple. The airspring wants to equalize positive and negative chambers and that is when the seal head is sits right around the stanchion dimples. I find the airsprings work best if you use little grease and clean then every 50 hour service. If you take it apart, remove the valve core, I bet the airspring will suck up into the fork because there is air stuck on the negative side. Use less grease and it should ride buttery smooth!
Caleb Gregg I installed the Pike air spring myself with way less grease, zero volume spacers 10psi less air pressure and still doesn’t feel as good as the old air spring and it now bottoms out on 1 ft drops. I opened up the Lyrik and removed some of the grease and I have it dialed - with 2 volume spacers and at 85psi with 3 clicks of low speed compression / 3 clicks out from the fastest setting on the rebound. I highly recommend the updated air spring for the Lyrik I can’t so much for the Pike. I’m trying to get it to work and if I do I will definitely pass that info on to you guys.
Nice vid. One comment - the "W" in 0W-30 actually stands for "winter", not "weight" :-)
What? Lol um no
@@starsky8351 Dude. Look it up if you don't believe me.
@@starsky8351 I looked it up for you. From Castrol's website:
"You might think that the 'W' in a motor oil's viscosity description stands for Weight, but that's just a common misconception. It actually stands for Winter. "
www.castrol.com/en_gb/united-kingdom/home/car-engine-oil-and-fluids/engine-oils/engine-oil-viscosity-grades/0w-40.html