I was a supplier of the clearcoats and stains to PRS from the mid 80's up until 1995. PRS was using a BASF automotive clearcoat under the brand Glasurit 923-85 urethane clearcoat. The stains were made by PPG. After that, they switched to Dupont automotive clearcoats (not sold by me), which were also urethane based. I visited Paul around 2013-2014 and took a tour of the factory. While in the paint shop, I noticed that the products he was using were from Cardinal Chemical. I am not sure what the chemical composition was as I did not get a close enough look. All I can add to this was that in the period that I sold him and during the urethane days, I never heard of the problem with hazing. From my experience with lacquers, a poor choice of solvents will definitely cause hazing as solvents like acetone attract moisture. Whether this has anything to do with this specific issue, I am not sure.
@@Sams911 From what I have heard, they currently use nitrocellulose in Maryland and urethane in Indonesia. U was only speaking about the use of urethane back in the 80's and 90's in Maryland.
1985 - 2019 they used a polyester basecoat with an acrylic topcoat. I belive a couple of models were an exception one being the DGT which may have always had nitrocellulose. In 2019 they transitioned to nitrocellulose over acrylic. All USA models from 2020 onwards have a nitrocellulose topcoat. If you buy a 2019 model it could be either. But, I believe when they started using nitrocellulose they used a lacquer without elastcisers and consequently there were issues with the nitrocellulose getting lacquer checking very quickly. All import models still have a poly finish to this day. SE guitars do not have nitrocellulose.
Well, if you only had 2, and one of them was faded, then 50% of your guitars are faded, but if you have 50, and one is faded and another is cloudy, then still only 4% of your guitars are less than perfect! It's simple math!
Yes these are long time PRS issues but lots of people don't know about them so this vid is worthwhile, not just "clickbait". A used buyer might think a clouded PRS is from surface wear and just needs a polish to restore it but that won't solve it. I keep all my guitars out of the sun and humidity as they will affect every model, not just PRS. Problem with PRS is the dyes are so vividly gorgeous and the fade so extreme it's disastrous, whereas say for Gibson, the dye fade is often part of the charm.
To counteract the cloud, I run a soft cloth soaked in white spirit over the milky spot and the paint becomes like new again. Be careful not to rub, just wipe it lightly once to avoid damaging the paintwork. In order to avoid UV damage to my Gibson and PRS, which unfortunately are not colored with lightfast stain, I always place them protected from sunlight and place a cotton cloth over the guitars and so far in over forty years, none of my guitars have lost their color. Great video, thanks!
I'll try your suggestion, should I buy a used "milky finish", older PRS... I spent hours hand rubbing my 2 early PRS guitars (Cherry color), attempting to bring the luster back. No Luck--- I was confounded at at all my wasted time rubbing Nitro over Poly, PRS Finishes. All my Fenders and Gibsons (nitro finished) would respond wonderfully to a hand rub-out, and carnauba waxing. So I sold two great playing PRS guitars. My recent PRS are remaining colorfast!
My 2021 CE24 had a chipping issue. I've seen several others from the same time period with the problem. I sent mine back to PRS to fix it and they did. It was in the middle of the corona nonsense and it took a while to get back. They fixed the problem without question, and while it was there I asked for them to upgrade to the 24-08 switching, and they offered to knock off about 1/3 of the price of the upgrade simce the repair work.was taking so long.
Good video. You cover some excellent topics and Your calm voice has grown on me. I keep my instruments in their cases except a fender mustang behs that stays out near my desk. Sometimes, the guitars will be out for a day or so either on a stand or a wall hanger, but dust and dog hair combined with laziness keep me consistent on putting them away.
I had some antique furniture that had cloudy finish and the refinisher told me he could apply heat, and the moisture would escape the finish, and the furniture would be restored. I went through with the repair, and it is like new again. I wonder if that technique could be used to restore the finish on the cloudy guitars. As I don't own one I can't test it, but if you have one maybe you could have the heat treatment to see if it would remove the cloudyness.
On nitro finishes you can use Jett Blush Remover spray. It works wonderfully. I build guitars and occasionally it is too humid when I spray the clear coat. When that happens, I use the blush remover and it disappears! Try it.
These are real issues you need to consider before buying such an expensive guitar. Thanks for sharing them, I didn't had any clue about that. Luckyly the fading colors are not my favourite (I mostly like tiger, charcoals, cherry).
Stevensville, Maryland, where the PRS factory is, has warm wet summers and cold windy winters. Clouding of a finish - assuming (which I do) that the used solvents and stains are compatible, is almost certainly a moisture or temperature problem. Polyurethane finishes are pretty sensitive to those while applying and curing. I do not think a properly cured finish, and PRS used urethane finishes during the period you mention, would be a problem unless it's an issue during curing. It could also be that on some instruments, there was not enough time between the curing of the stain and the applying of the clearcoats or in between coats. The drying time, adding a substantial margin, depends on the humidity and temperature.
I live in Maryland where PRS is based. I see many samples because I set up and fix people's guitars. I've seen the clouding and not if it can be stopped. I think the spread can be slowed down. A bit of added honesty, PRS guitars come into the shop with QC issues just like other brands. You might not think this if you listened the Internet. Perhaps percentage wise PRS has fewer QC issues but then again, I do not have all the data just what comes in front of me. I will say PRS really should be giving buyers a case and better electronics, such as on the S2. I am asked to do a lot of pickup swaps for those guitars. My comments are not an attack on a fine brand. It is just sober comments in community where hyperbole reigns. PS Great video as always. Please keep them coming.
I just bought a Core series "Special" which comes with a Nitrocellulose finish ... I'm in Las Vegas where it's very dry, my room humidity is usually 29% .. I haven't seen any issues with it so far, but its only been 2 weeks...
I would add that the wiring in the SE series is a bit suspect. I own a nice Custom 24-08 and I tried a 245 in the shop a year or so ago. The Bridge pick-up on the 245 just didn't work - the switcher is my guess . . . and this was in the PRS flagship store! The pick-up switcher on my 24-08 is also erratic. A bit of CRC will most likely fix it BUT despite the build being absolutely fine the guys in Indonesia really need to get their act together when it comes to wiring.
The cool kids know lol that as soon as you get a SE , you immediately take out the pickups and wiring . A Very high quality replacement are the Lindy Fralin PAFs with the Emerson LP wiring harness. … Do that and you basically have a beast that is comparable to Any other guitar at almost Any price point .
That is what I did with my McCarty S2 .. granted it’s an American PRS.. but still .. amazing guitar that plays and sounds as good if not better than my Gibson r9 . I will be making videos if you want to check my channel out . Sub and comment and I will answer any questions I can that you leave in comments . Thanks and take care
When my car’s headlights are cloudy i use a product called Plastex that removes build-up on headlights. I wonder if this product would also work on guitars?🤔
I've been able too avoid my blues from fading by only having the guitar around LED lighting only. I have a couple private stockss hanging outside the case always that havent faded over the years. While I have one CU24 artist with blue fade that has faded due to gigging and UV expose. Still I love my faded blue fade.
I believe the LED hypothesis as well, but I’m a little too fearful to take the chance. I have two sets of guitars, one that I don’t care what happens to their aesthetics (like my Cu24 7 string private stock in the video) and some that I do care, because they are pristine to begin with
@@ministryofguitar well I've had every light in my home swapped for LED. I've had my blue fade private stock out of it's case for 3 years and gigged it too. It hasn't faded. However I understand...nothing is really safer than the case.
I find the fading process and the changing of colors to be a unique part of the guitar that we are so privileged to observe. It is a characteristic, something that is always changing, aging, and no different than ourselves makes each individual one unique. It’s why some of us buy or choose to collect. If they all looked the same and yours wasn’t uniquely yours, would it be as special to you? Thanks for taking the time to make the video, great information on here for those of us in the market for a faded denim stained PRS!
Yeah, after he passed away, I spent a lot of time hunting Buddy Blaze guitars down, and I got a VC-II Lightning from a guy in Singapore...and I know the humidity played havoc on it, because a few bits of paint flaked out once it get into our dry climate.
I've read that the SE line does not fade because of the stains being not natural. Is this true? I've got an SE Eriza verde (green) and it worries me a lot.
I wouldn’t worry, the finishes on lower priced guitars like the SE models are way more durable. The clear coat is polyurethane as opposed to nitrocellulose lacquer. Lacquer can wear away and crack/chip pretty easily and exposure to light can cause yellowing (If they are babied and stored properly these effects are minimized). I’m probably in the minority but I prefer a poly finish, I want the guitar to stay how it looked when I bought it.
I think it must be certain blues, I have a 2006 Whale Blue PRS I bought new, which has always hung on the wall in my house, and the blue hasn't changed! Also the 2012 NOS ME 1 I have is "slate blue" which seems stable as well. Thanks for brining this to light (lol), hopefully more people will realize these are potential details they need to consider when buying older instruments!
Yes it struck me after making this video that I should have specified it wasn't all blues. My Blue crab Blue 513 has been fine, as well as my Private Stock Custom 24, which is technically Faded indigo but is really super dark blue green with gold like highlights
I have never understood the blazer and T-shirt look . If the T-shirt is a plain T and Its black dark blue or white it looks somewhat passable but it's just a weird look in general.
I have a finish crack in the neck and body joint. Its been in the case. 4 months old. My heart sunk.i thought my neck moved? The glue was weak? Im with you brrother! My korean se santana still perfect after15 years.😮
actually nitro is a relatively recent development for prs core. they were poly till about 2019. that said, this hazing issue only affects core guitars from a certain period. it's not a problem for ses or current cores
I had this problem with an Emerald Green PRS CU24 and could not find anything online about it. Thanks for posting this. Could we see a video of your "Ghost PRS" ? Thanks!
Thanks for this info. I don't own a PRS but do like them, and green is my favorite color. If it turned brown, or I had to hide it in the case, I'd be upset no doubt.
yeah. the only caveat is that it isn't all greens. I have two green PRSs that haven't faded one bit despite staying outside. A 513 in Blue Crab Blue (which looks green) which hasn't faded and a beautiful Custom 24 in a dark green blue colour with gold like highlights (I don't know the colour's name but here's the guitar ua-cam.com/video/0mHkHIV7JOQ/v-deo.html)
I love mine. One thing that’s a fact, through a combo amp vs a Gibson or fender, they are a a db or two lower in volume. It’s a very small detail. But I’ve noticed it. Most people can’t tell but some can.
You are right to say PRS pickups are lower output than one would expect. Very noticeable especially compared to cheap guitars . However compared to fender, I always find humbucker volumes higher than single coils
I have a Carvin that has the clouding on the back of the neck. I've seen PRS with it as well. The owner of the guitar spoke to Paul Smith about it when having it signed, Paul mentioned something about temperature issues when applying the top coat.
Great video man, I was always wondering about PRS and how their colours would develop over time and why. I recently bought an emerald green custom 22 (2021), blue matteo custom 24 (2007), purple Iris custom 24 (2023). The old blue matteo is still as new, the emerald green looks like mash/leprechaun tooth green now and the purple Iris looks like salmon pink right now😂.
@@ministryofguitar well let me rephrase the salmon pink, its now more like Bonnie Pink🤣 I am now using that guitar for the weird Sevendust tuning for "Decay" drop B flat but with top 2 strings regular B flat tuning
I briefly stepped up to a 10-Top McCarty in purple iris. I actually ended up selling it because it was so fragile. Had it hanging at one point, and I bumped it about as softly as you can imagine while trying to pull a case out of a tight spot. I run my hand along the point of impact and discovered that there was a new chip in the finish. So, it went into the case for safekeeping, and I eventually sold it. Just wasn't ready to own one of those yet. For now, I'm satisfied with my S2's and SE's, one in quilted violet - more like fuchsia...maybe this video explains why the initial units were more purple than the newer ones.
I just subscribed to your channel recently.Now, maybe my comment does not really apply to this video specifically, but I have 5 cores, all built after 2019, except for one which was built in 2011 (a Studio in Eriza Green). I live in the mid Atlantic USA and my home is air conditioned and heated year round depending on the season. I have a Core Custom 24-08 built in 2019 which is Aquamarine. I keep all of my guitars in their cases when I am not playing them. I have 15 electric guitars PRS, Gibson, Fender, and one Suhr) which I rotate about once a week. I have never (at least not yet) have had any problems with PRS color. I DID have a problem with a 2019 Gibson Les Paul Standard Seafoam Green which I bought used with the problem already evident. It turned from a nice mild green to a blonde color which I call Buckwheat Blonde. Gibson claims it was left out in the sun, which I find preposterous, as everything else looks mint. Many others had the exact same problem and I have read that Gibson even reduced the price of these LPs by $1000 some time ago due to this defect. There WAS a defect in the paint, but it was certainly not the sun. All this being said, I believe many folks who have problems with their finishes are careless with how they store their guitars, or how they handle them once they are out of their cases or in the climate of their homes. Keep your guitars in their cases is my advice and don't play them in the sun if you can avoid it. Good video BTW
I fully agree on guitar storage being a significant aspect . As with all good things in life, they need care . Ironically cheap guitars with hard, super durable plasticky finishes can stand a lot more abuse
Very interesting. Its a bit like the red in '58 and '59 bursts fading to brown or just disappearing. These days that's obviously very sought after. Maybe one day clouded PRS guitars will be too. (Probably not lol).
V2 finish at where the paint meet the fingerboard is annoying too. It’s easy to chipped worst part is it is where you’ll feel it the most. Aside from that I like how the V2 finish at the rest of the guitar. Bear in mind tho it is really easy to dent and chipped to. I kinda like how it relic with me through 13 years owning em.
@@ministryofguitar I agree. Tho now i’m at the end game of my guitar buying journey. Took years too realized all i wanted was an offset guitar with tele pickup 😅
I knew instantly before you said what the issues were, that it would be related to finish issues. Fading is a huge issue with PRS especially Northern Lights. Its a private stock only finish which means to get it you must pay around $10k brand new, for the opportunity to spec with a finish that will not look the same later... I will say some finishes fade and look really good. I have a 98~ PRS CE that was trans purple which had completely faded, its almost a pink salmon color that looks so good imo. So in some cases it works. I will say Ive heard that PRS understands this issue and has refinished guitars with clouding for free! not sure about blue finish issues but I have email PRS PTC and they did say they would refinish my PRS (i wanted to change the color but change my mind) but it would not be free (i was chaning the color from original)
Have you had he opportunity to try out Eastman guitars? Specifically their thinline series ending in Mx and the ones with the violin varnish finish (t59, t64)
@@Tiago_007the only US made ones are a limited run Otto did for the last namm After guitars are made in China they do get setup and inspected in Pomona though. The Quality Control happens in the US.
The faded relics are going to be worth more in the future if you care about that sort of stuff. Not the cloudy so much, but the blue fade, definitely. Rarer the better.
My 1992 Custom 24, whale blue 10 top which I bought new has started to turn a bit light green and fade some. I could care less. It still plays and sounds killer and I’ll play it till I can’t! Best guitar I’ve ever owned and I turn 70 in October 2024! 😉🎸
Yes it should. Not all blues are equally susceptible. Faded whale blue, purples, northern lights, glacier blue are the most susceptible. Blue Matteo, Blue Crab Blue less so
I had a natural finish CE-22 standard from 96 so mahogany body maple neck. It pains me that I let it go. It was cloudy especially around the neck joint and smelled like an old hall (you know the smell inside the PRS case?) and I loved its character.
Hmmmm sounds to me that the issue would be a lack of proper sealing of the wood. Especially considering that the guitars you show are solid body. Which begs the questions how is the moisture getting under the top coat. Or could it be insufficient drying, and over time the moisture is coming up out of the wood, and interacting with the top coat? However a good sealer, applied over the entire body (neck, pickup, and control cavities included) would trap the moisture in.
And if you watch the recent 2+ hour PRS tour in Anderton’s channel, they are VERY particular about the percentage of humidity in the wood that goes into their guitars. You’re making me nervous cos I just ordered an S2 24-08 in lake blue. And it’s not like they’re cheap. And you don’t even get a real case with a $2500 guitar!😮
@@RRBish if I can make you feel slightly better. Two things, 1) I haven't seen any clouding post 2015 2) Different blues have differing levels of fade. I haven't heard of lake blue fading much if at allo
WAY too timely. I'm trading in my PRS McCarty Eriza Verde for the solid black DW CE hardtail. I'm assuming I won't have to deal with any finish clouding and fading with solid black right?
I have S/H 1998 custom 22 ,10 top that was purple which has faded to a lovely medium/ light Orange ,beautiful,no clouding, I'm made up with it. The seller was quite honest about the fading of which I never would have known about as it looks perfectly natural !. I wouldn't have bought it if it was still Purple. My other PRS including a 1994 Santana Orange Mk2 and has no signs of a finish problem, brilliant Orange just like Santana's. Any finish problems will show up years later perhaps to poor storage , exposure to excessive sunlight , humidity, especially in a hot country. I question whether it is a fault with the actual materials in most cases,if it is then other guitar manufacturers will have the same problem. Red is very prone to fading on cars even in the UK's cold damp climate and other articles too it's unfortunate but that's how it is. PRS or any manufacturer cannot be held responsible for unforeseen finish problems due to natural fading or poor storage. At the end of the day its the playability of the instrument that matters ,not looks and PRS are one of the best ,and they stay in tune !
I agree. The only thing I’ll kind of push on a little is that some PRSs colours fade a little in very normal use. I just think they should come with a warning for non involved customers. But as you said, it doesn’t affect playability
@@ministryofguitar I decided to check the colour on the faded to orange custom 22 I mentioned under the stoptail and it was vivid purple! which proves its the sunlight that's the culprit in this case. I know that clouding on furniture is caused by moisture from watering plants and can be removed by heating gently with an warm iron over white cartridge or blotting paper,but I wouldn't like to try it on my PRS or any other guitar...! I wonder if a large bag of silica gel kept in the guitar case with the guitar would cure the clouding? or even in the empty case ,or put the empty case in the sun for a few days ! if the case is damp then it may cause clouding?
I’ve owned many PRS and Gibbons. I still love my 24 year old LP but I don’t reach for it as much. PRS & Gibsons can be awfully pretty and pretty flawed too…I now buy Ltds which are generally 9/10 - 10/10 for a third of the price of either U.S. made PRS or standard Gibson. They don’t smell as good but then again I’m not a headstock sniffer anymore.
You have more PRS guitars than all the guitar shops in my city put together, been looking to try a DGT for the last 2 months and no one has it in stock
Wow, I had no idea about this stuff. This is a problem. They are incredible guitars but their beauty is a big reason why people buy them. There’s also some videos out there talking about how their new finishes do not wear well compared to older finishes. To be honest, all this stuff puts me off a bit. I was thinking about eventually buying a nice 10 top something down the line but now I don’t know. Maybe it will be a Suhr after all. This is quite shocking to be honest…
Yeah the clouding is definitely a bummer. In the interest of fairness I should point out (as I mentioned in the video) that it only affects guitars from a certain period. The frailty of the post 2020 finishes is a different issue on a different finish and it’s because PRS moved to nitro then.
Well... I assume since PRS moved to nitro finishes, ALL of them will yellow over time. But it's worked in the favor of the Gibson aftermarket. People love those silverbursts that have gone yellow.
I have 5 PRS ('98 McCarty, 2000 McCarty, a new Myles Kennedy, a Santana SE and a 245 SE). Also have multiple Gibson Les Paul's, Fender Strats and Teles along with a couple Rickenbackers and a Gretsch. Hands down, the US PRS's are superior to all the rest, yet all the others have their place somewhere, sometime in the tonal pallet in particular recordings. On a scale of 1 to ten, descending from 1, I would put the finish the least important factor
If there's a PRS finish I can't stand, it's denim. Something about the texture just doesn't work for me. You're telling me this fades to a jade green? Suddenly I'm intrigued! Clouding is a problem I have with my Washburn 12-string. Didn't appear until I moved to Colorado. Oddly enough, it's like the guitar is growing armor. As you say, it sounds no different, so I'm inclined to count it as part of the character of my beloved instrument.
About time someone discussed the clouding issue that prs factory ignores won’t own up to and live had 20:prs cores and 8 have clouded. And I live in Maryland
Similar issue with floor finishes... I always talk homeowners into using oil based finishes....water based floor finish have that muted, clouded appearance as well...im thinking Paul let some slick supplier talk him into the "advantages " of water based finishes i.e. environmental and worker safety ...now the results after the test of time ....
@ministryofguitar I saw a thing where a guy sent his back to PRS Europe and it came back looking new so they dont necessarily have to go to America. If its just a case of posting it I'd say its worth doing
What about adding some factor 50 sun lotion to a wax based polish. Obviously make sure the lotion doesn't react with the finish, first. Then build a up several layers to form a UV resistant skin. Might work? I don't have multiple PRS guitars to test this out on but maybe worth a try.
I personally don't care about looks that much, at least up to a point. I used to play violin. I have played several violins, some a couple hundred used old. One in particular ( that got stolen 😞 ) sounded fantastic, yet it had far more scars than newer violins. I really didn't care. It's an instrument not a painting. PRS may make great guitars but I wouldn't buy one. I kind of dislike the PRS bull shit factor. For instance he insists tone wood makes a difference on solid body electrics. Yet I've never seen that proven and there are videos that disprove it pretty convincingly (here's maybe the best one: ua-cam.com/video/n02tImce3AE/v-deo.html ) . Just admit your building a status symbol and leave it at that. That's how Gibson is still in business. Your best video was the one you said it's not about music. That's exactly right, at least in the majority of cases.
Well, he does not say anything about _how much_ it affects. He rightfully points out the the sound of the guitar is the sum of its parts. For instance, if you have rubber nut, the string vibration will be negatively impacted. He is not going to deny that the microphone does the most, and that swapping the microphones will have a huge impact on the sound. (Not to mention the speaker the guitar is plugged into.) But his point is just that the microphones can only pick up what is already there. Which is the acoustic vibration of the strings. The wood impacts the acoustic sound, the vibrations you feel towards your chest, and the sound you hear in the room, and as the player. Whether this is a meaningful difference to you, I leave for you to decide. If you only care about what the recorded sound is, and not the playing experience, then put all your money into the recording equipment and speakers. What PRS prides himself on, is to fine-tune all of the different 30-ish factors that accumulates to a great guitar. And sure, he does have the air of an "used cars-salesman" at times, but he does seem to believe what he preach, and it is hard to deny his results.
@@Henriktranoy "Which is the acoustic vibration of the strings." A solid body electric doesn't pickup acoustic vibration. I specifically wrote "solid body electric" for that reason. Nobody is arguing that wood, shape etc, affects the sound of an acoustic guitar the same as it does a violin.
@@zemlidrakona2915 . No worries! I was also talking about a solid-body electric guitar! Now then, go and strum an electric guitar, and tell me that the body doesn't vibrate. Now go and strum a second guitar, and tell me that it doesn't sound differently. Now plug both these guitars into the same amp, and they will sound fairly similar, depending on settings. My claim is something along these lines, Amp, 95-ish% of the sound, guitar ~5%. Paul talks about 30 factors in the guitar that composes the sound. so 5%/(30 components) ==> acoustics is about 0.2% of the sound you get out. Of course, if you skip the amp, and only focus on the guitar, it will be higher. The wood isn't the end all, be all (far from it). But it really does impact what you as the player hear and feel. Even if it doesn't come across on a recording (apparat from indirectly, if it affects how you play it)
@@Henriktranoy Of course solid bodies sound different unplugged. I have one that is louder than my arch-top. Oddly enough it's a cheap strat style copy made of ply-wood. However the contribution of the wood doesn't translate into anything, or at least nothing perceptible when plugged in. I've seen enough tests to convince me of that. Now if someone wants to actually do tests that prove otherwise, with at least the controls that Jim Lill used, I'll be happy to reconsider. But I can't help noticing all the "proof" is anecdotal.
@@zemlidrakona2915 I think we are in reasonable agreements about a plugged in guitar. I'd hasten to add that I don't think "louder" equals "better", as similarly, my cheapest electric is the loudest. However, it sustains like crap, the tonal quality is bad. (It somehow sound like it falls out of tune as it sustains, and I don't understand how that is possible) Good tests are of course, difficult to come buy. It requires time, energy and money. One interesting "test" is was done by Kyle Bull, watch?v=2_XO6Gr1Abk&ab_channel=KyleBull Where he is testing two "identical" guitars where one has a maple cap and the other does not. Otherwise "the same". He tries on a few different people playing, and they are mostly in agreement of the sound qualities. Of course. Not exactly the same guitar, different strings (same set, but), same kind of microphones, but how big are the natural variance among those? I would have like to see this test done with 3 guitars, where two had maple top, and seen if there was any difference between them as well. Still would not be a perfect test, and even here. the two guitars are so close, that I would not let the maple caps "sound quality" be a factor in which one of those I'd like.
the first PRS you showed... I have never seen one with a body that fat... it's like an ES335 in width. most of the modern PRS guitars are so skinny great video
That's disappointing to hear and I have never heard about this. To me, the key thing about a PRS is the stunning looks. Specifically, the paint and tops. If it fades, to me, I'd be upset. Especially if I paid 10 top prices for it. it's definitely a real problem. The clouding, it's an issue for only items of a certain age. And as long as discounted, would make good affordable player grade guitars. For a poor person looking for a quality guitar, this could be a good option (as long as you don't care about the looks).
I think you hit the nail on the head. Clouded PRSs are great deals for players who want amazing guitars. And yes, if one was to buy one for the looks, it would be super disappointing
I was a supplier of the clearcoats and stains to PRS from the mid 80's up until 1995. PRS was using a BASF automotive clearcoat under the brand Glasurit 923-85 urethane clearcoat. The stains were made by PPG. After that, they switched to Dupont automotive clearcoats (not sold by me), which were also urethane based. I visited Paul around 2013-2014 and took a tour of the factory. While in the paint shop, I noticed that the products he was using were from Cardinal Chemical. I am not sure what the chemical composition was as I did not get a close enough look. All I can add to this was that in the period that I sold him and during the urethane days, I never heard of the problem with hazing. From my experience with lacquers, a poor choice of solvents will definitely cause hazing as solvents like acetone attract moisture. Whether this has anything to do with this specific issue, I am not sure.
don't they use nitrocellulose finish?
@@Sams911 From what I have heard, they currently use nitrocellulose in Maryland and urethane in Indonesia. U was only speaking about the use of urethane back in the 80's and 90's in Maryland.
1985 - 2019 they used a polyester basecoat with an acrylic topcoat. I belive a couple of models were an exception one being the DGT which may have always had nitrocellulose.
In 2019 they transitioned to nitrocellulose over acrylic. All USA models from 2020 onwards have a nitrocellulose topcoat. If you buy a 2019 model it could be either.
But, I believe when they started using nitrocellulose they used a lacquer without elastcisers and consequently there were issues with the nitrocellulose getting lacquer checking very quickly.
All import models still have a poly finish to this day. SE guitars do not have nitrocellulose.
If they have a problem, the real problem is why do we have 50 of them??🤔😆
Well, if you only had 2, and one of them was faded, then 50% of your guitars are faded, but if you have 50, and one is faded and another is cloudy, then still only 4% of your guitars are less than perfect! It's simple math!
I own zero bcuz prs guitars suck!!!!
Just curious. What do you play?@derekwright5564
@@JPP-i6o i have fenders, squiers, gibsons, a jacksons,a bc rich and kit guitars plus a couple that I handmade.
@@JPP-i6o i have Fenders, Squiers, Gibsons, a Dean flying v, a Jackson v, a Bc rich, kit guitars, a couple that I handmade.
Thanks for knowing this. My PRS artist 2003 and Spruce 2006 hollowbody are also cloudy
Spruce Hollowbodies are amazing though
Yes these are long time PRS issues but lots of people don't know about them so this vid is worthwhile, not just "clickbait". A used buyer might think a clouded PRS is from surface wear and just needs a polish to restore it but that won't solve it. I keep all my guitars out of the sun and humidity as they will affect every model, not just PRS. Problem with PRS is the dyes are so vividly gorgeous and the fade so extreme it's disastrous, whereas say for Gibson, the dye fade is often part of the charm.
To counteract the cloud, I run a soft cloth soaked in white spirit over the milky spot and the paint becomes like new again. Be careful not to rub, just wipe it lightly once to avoid damaging the paintwork. In order to avoid UV damage to my Gibson and PRS, which unfortunately are not colored with lightfast stain, I always place them protected from sunlight and place a cotton cloth over the guitars and so far in over forty years, none of my guitars have lost their color. Great video, thanks!
Thank you for sharing
I'll try your suggestion, should I buy a used "milky finish", older PRS... I spent hours hand rubbing my 2 early PRS guitars (Cherry color), attempting to bring the luster back. No Luck--- I was confounded at at all my wasted time rubbing Nitro over Poly, PRS Finishes. All my Fenders and Gibsons (nitro finished) would respond wonderfully to a hand rub-out, and carnauba waxing. So I sold two great playing PRS guitars. My recent PRS are remaining colorfast!
@@monteklein7385 Hi, no finishing, just rub it lightly with white spirit and let it dry. Every polish causes a chemical reaction. Keep on Rocking, Ron
My Purple 97 Custom 24 is clouding and fading. It definitely has pissed me off over the years 🤨❤
Color bleaching is very common. Many printed items have a UV coating or lamination to help slow the process.
This is becoming my favorite channel. I have a CE Semi-Hollow Faded Blue Smokeburst on the way 😂 🤦♂️ Great videos dude!
I wasn't aware of those finish issues. Thanks for the heads-up. 😮
My 2021 CE24 had a chipping issue. I've seen several others from the same time period with the problem. I sent mine back to PRS to fix it and they did. It was in the middle of the corona nonsense and it took a while to get back. They fixed the problem without question, and while it was there I asked for them to upgrade to the 24-08 switching, and they offered to knock off about 1/3 of the price of the upgrade simce the repair work.was taking so long.
Good video. You cover some excellent topics and Your calm voice has grown on me.
I keep my instruments in their cases except a fender mustang behs that stays out near my desk. Sometimes, the guitars will be out for a day or so either on a stand or a wall hanger, but dust and dog hair combined with laziness keep me consistent on putting them away.
Thanks for the kind words and thank you for sharing
My SE had a nut issue and toggle switch issue. Those are easy fixes . But the neck, body, fretboard, fret everything is awesome.
I had some antique furniture that had cloudy finish and the refinisher told me he could apply heat, and the moisture would escape the finish, and the furniture would be restored. I went through with the repair, and it is like new again. I wonder if that technique could be used to restore the finish on the cloudy guitars. As I don't own one I can't test it, but if you have one maybe you could have the heat treatment to see if it would remove the cloudyness.
Appreciate the honest takes even on guitars you really enjoy!
On nitro finishes you can use Jett Blush Remover spray. It works wonderfully. I build guitars and occasionally it is too humid when I spray the clear coat. When that happens, I use the blush remover and it disappears! Try it.
Thanks for the top. Let me try it out
These are real issues you need to consider before buying such an expensive guitar. Thanks for sharing them, I didn't had any clue about that. Luckyly the fading colors are not my favourite (I mostly like tiger, charcoals, cherry).
what about 2024 versions?
Have you tried using a hair dryer to remove the cloud?
Will a PRS Eagle V Burnt Maple Leaf fade colors? Which colors fade?
it won't fade. only the blues, greens and purples fade. it's the blue dye that's fading
Stevensville, Maryland, where the PRS factory is, has warm wet summers and cold windy winters. Clouding of a finish - assuming (which I do) that the used solvents and stains are compatible, is almost certainly a moisture or temperature problem. Polyurethane finishes are pretty sensitive to those while applying and curing. I do not think a properly cured finish, and PRS used urethane finishes during the period you mention, would be a problem unless it's an issue during curing. It could also be that on some instruments, there was not enough time between the curing of the stain and the applying of the clearcoats or in between coats. The drying time, adding a substantial margin, depends on the humidity and temperature.
I agree. Undercoats weren't dry before sealing
I live in Maryland where PRS is based. I see many samples because I set up and fix people's guitars. I've seen the clouding and not if it can be stopped. I think the spread can be slowed down. A bit of added honesty, PRS guitars come into the shop with QC issues just like other brands. You might not think this if you listened the Internet. Perhaps percentage wise PRS has fewer QC issues but then again, I do not have all the data just what comes in front of me. I will say PRS really should be giving buyers a case and better electronics, such as on the S2. I am asked to do a lot of pickup swaps for those guitars. My comments are not an attack on a fine brand. It is just sober comments in community where hyperbole reigns.
PS Great video as always. Please keep them coming.
Good video. Thanks. Fair, informative and accurate.
I just bought a Core series "Special" which comes with a Nitrocellulose finish ... I'm in Las Vegas where it's very dry, my room humidity is usually 29% .. I haven't seen any issues with it so far, but its only been 2 weeks...
a drier climate won't cause this problem. But in any case, the new Nitro guitars do not seem to have this problem
Oh where can we hear you play?
I am mostly Fender & Gibson man but I didn't know about the fading , & will affect resale value.
famous fender fadig is fiesta red into coral pink. Not lowering the value, at least its more worth after fading.
I would add that the wiring in the SE series is a bit suspect. I own a nice Custom 24-08 and I tried a 245 in the shop a year or so ago. The Bridge pick-up on the 245 just didn't work - the switcher is my guess . . . and this was in the PRS flagship store! The pick-up switcher on my 24-08 is also erratic. A bit of CRC will most likely fix it BUT despite the build being absolutely fine the guys in Indonesia really need to get their act together when it comes to wiring.
The cool kids know lol that as soon as you get a SE , you immediately take out the pickups and wiring . A Very high quality replacement are the Lindy Fralin PAFs with the Emerson LP wiring harness. … Do that and you basically have a beast that is comparable to Any other guitar at almost Any price point .
That is what I did with my McCarty S2 .. granted it’s an American PRS.. but still .. amazing guitar that plays and sounds as good if not better than my Gibson r9 . I will be making videos if you want to check my channel out . Sub and comment and I will answer any questions I can that you leave in comments . Thanks and take care
When my car’s headlights are cloudy i use a product called Plastex that removes build-up on headlights. I wonder if this product would also work on guitars?🤔
I've been able too avoid my blues from fading by only having the guitar around LED lighting only. I have a couple private stockss hanging outside the case always that havent faded over the years. While I have one CU24 artist with blue fade that has faded due to gigging and UV expose. Still I love my faded blue fade.
I believe the LED hypothesis as well, but I’m a little too fearful to take the chance. I have two sets of guitars, one that I don’t care what happens to their aesthetics (like my Cu24 7 string private stock in the video) and some that I do care, because they are pristine to begin with
@@ministryofguitar well I've had every light in my home swapped for LED. I've had my blue fade private stock out of it's case for 3 years and gigged it too. It hasn't faded. However I understand...nothing is really safer than the case.
@@ehiracheta yeah but I’m glad to see you get good use out of your private stock
It's marketed as "Cataract Finish" exclusively priced option in the library catalog line...
Haha only Gibson could pull off such puffery
I find the fading process and the changing of colors to be a unique part of the guitar that we are so privileged to observe. It is a characteristic, something that is always changing, aging, and no different than ourselves makes each individual one unique. It’s why some of us buy or choose to collect. If they all looked the same and yours wasn’t uniquely yours, would it be as special to you?
Thanks for taking the time to make the video, great information on here for those of us in the market for a faded denim stained PRS!
Yeah, after he passed away, I spent a lot of time hunting Buddy Blaze guitars down, and I got a VC-II Lightning from a guy in Singapore...and I know the humidity played havoc on it, because a few bits of paint flaked out once it get into our dry climate.
Great video sir!
Didn't know this. Thanks for telling us. I own an SE Purple/Grey burst. (2017) hope it doesn't fade to fast
i always keep in case if not playing..
I've read that the SE line does not fade because of the stains being not natural. Is this true?
I've got an SE Eriza verde (green) and it worries me a lot.
I wouldn’t worry, the finishes on lower priced guitars like the SE models are way more durable. The clear coat is polyurethane as opposed to nitrocellulose lacquer. Lacquer can wear away and crack/chip pretty easily and exposure to light can cause yellowing (If they are babied and stored properly these effects are minimized). I’m probably in the minority but I prefer a poly finish, I want the guitar to stay how it looked when I bought it.
I think it must be certain blues, I have a 2006 Whale Blue PRS I bought new, which has always hung on the wall in my house, and the blue hasn't changed!
Also the 2012 NOS ME 1 I have is "slate blue" which seems stable as well.
Thanks for brining this to light (lol), hopefully more people will realize these are potential details they need to consider when buying older instruments!
Yes it struck me after making this video that I should have specified it wasn't all blues. My Blue crab Blue 513 has been fine, as well as my Private Stock Custom 24, which is technically Faded indigo but is really super dark blue green with gold like highlights
What happened to your collar dude?
I have never understood the blazer and T-shirt look .
If the T-shirt is a plain T and Its black dark blue or white it looks somewhat passable but it's just a weird look in general.
Showing off the PRS none fade /blooming groovy hand sewn 10 top fabric.
I have a finish crack in the neck and body joint. Its been in the case. 4 months old. My heart sunk.i thought my neck moved? The glue was weak? Im with you brrother! My korean se santana still perfect after15 years.😮
is the organic dye also used on SE ones?
I'm guessing the hazing won't happen on SE models because of the poly finish, instead of Nitro
actually nitro is a relatively recent development for prs core. they were poly till about 2019. that said, this hazing issue only affects core guitars from a certain period. it's not a problem for ses or current cores
I had this problem with an Emerald Green PRS CU24 and could not find anything online about it. Thanks for posting this. Could we see a video of your "Ghost PRS" ? Thanks!
Hey man it’s in this video PRS Finish Clouding/Hazing/Ghosting Explained
ua-cam.com/video/dkSsnhEp9cc/v-deo.html
The only problem is I don't have more of them
Thanks for this info. I don't own a PRS but do like them, and green is my favorite color. If it turned brown, or I had to hide it in the case, I'd be upset no doubt.
yeah. the only caveat is that it isn't all greens. I have two green PRSs that haven't faded one bit despite staying outside. A 513 in Blue Crab Blue (which looks green) which hasn't faded and a beautiful Custom 24 in a dark green blue colour with gold like highlights (I don't know the colour's name but here's the guitar ua-cam.com/video/0mHkHIV7JOQ/v-deo.html)
thanks @@ministryofguitar
The clouding could be the use of polyurethane or spraying lacquer in humid conditions
Yes, this makes sense
Why is Chevy Chase in your thumbnail?
Bahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!
Lol
hilarious
I thought chevy played drums not guitar
I love mine. One thing that’s a fact, through a combo amp vs a Gibson or fender, they are a a db or two lower in volume. It’s a very small detail. But I’ve noticed it. Most people can’t tell but some can.
You are right to say PRS pickups are lower output than one would expect. Very noticeable especially compared to cheap guitars . However compared to fender, I always find humbucker volumes higher than single coils
Bhayia ji.. after seeing yur prs video on se ce 24 satin... i too became a PRS guy.. keep doin the good work.. thanks from India
I have a Carvin that has the clouding on the back of the neck. I've seen PRS with it as well. The owner of the guitar spoke to Paul Smith about it when having it signed, Paul mentioned something about temperature issues when applying the top coat.
Great video man, I was always wondering about PRS and how their colours would develop over time and why. I recently bought an emerald green custom 22 (2021), blue matteo custom 24 (2007), purple Iris custom 24 (2023). The old blue matteo is still as new, the emerald green looks like mash/leprechaun tooth green now and the purple Iris looks like salmon pink right now😂.
You have summed up how they fade very well
@@ministryofguitar well let me rephrase the salmon pink, its now more like Bonnie Pink🤣 I am now using that guitar for the weird Sevendust tuning for "Decay" drop B flat but with top 2 strings regular B flat tuning
I wonder why blue Matteo never fades. I’ve never seen one example
I agree. It’s something I’ve noticed as well
I briefly stepped up to a 10-Top McCarty in purple iris. I actually ended up selling it because it was so fragile. Had it hanging at one point, and I bumped it about as softly as you can imagine while trying to pull a case out of a tight spot. I run my hand along the point of impact and discovered that there was a new chip in the finish. So, it went into the case for safekeeping, and I eventually sold it. Just wasn't ready to own one of those yet. For now, I'm satisfied with my S2's and SE's, one in quilted violet - more like fuchsia...maybe this video explains why the initial units were more purple than the newer ones.
Those quilted violet se 24 models look fantastic
One of mine is fading just like in your video. Still looks beautiful
I just subscribed to your channel recently.Now, maybe my comment does not really apply to this video specifically, but I have 5 cores, all built after 2019, except for one which was built in 2011 (a Studio in Eriza Green). I live in the mid Atlantic USA and my home is air conditioned and heated year round depending on the season. I have a Core Custom 24-08 built in 2019 which is Aquamarine. I keep all of my guitars in their cases when I am not playing them. I have 15 electric guitars PRS, Gibson, Fender, and one Suhr) which I rotate about once a week. I have never (at least not yet) have had any problems with PRS color. I DID have a problem with a 2019 Gibson Les Paul Standard Seafoam Green which I bought used with the problem already evident. It turned from a nice mild green to a blonde color which I call Buckwheat Blonde. Gibson claims it was left out in the sun, which I find preposterous, as everything else looks mint. Many others had the exact same problem and I have read that Gibson even reduced the price of these LPs by $1000 some time ago due to this defect. There WAS a defect in the paint, but it was certainly not the sun. All this being said, I believe many folks who have problems with their finishes are careless with how they store their guitars, or how they handle them once they are out of their cases or in the climate of their homes. Keep your guitars in their cases is my advice and don't play them in the sun if you can avoid it. Good video BTW
I fully agree on guitar storage being a significant aspect . As with all good things in life, they need care . Ironically cheap guitars with hard, super durable plasticky finishes can stand a lot more abuse
Very interesting. Its a bit like the red in '58 and '59 bursts fading to brown or just disappearing. These days that's obviously very sought after. Maybe one day clouded PRS guitars will be too. (Probably not lol).
Yeah I doubt it
V2 finish at where the paint meet the fingerboard is annoying too.
It’s easy to chipped worst part is it is where you’ll feel it the most.
Aside from that I like how the V2 finish at the rest of the guitar. Bear in mind tho it is really easy to dent and chipped to.
I kinda like how it relic with me through 13 years owning em.
Yes I didn't get into V12 in the video. I think the general point is PRS innovate with finish and that sometimes has unintended consequences
@@ministryofguitar I agree. Tho now i’m at the end game of my guitar buying journey. Took years too realized all i wanted was an offset guitar with tele pickup 😅
They discontinued the v12 because of this.
Does this blue color change affect a darker color like their whale blue?
yes whale blue definitely fades
I knew instantly before you said what the issues were, that it would be related to finish issues. Fading is a huge issue with PRS especially Northern Lights. Its a private stock only finish which means to get it you must pay around $10k brand new, for the opportunity to spec with a finish that will not look the same later... I will say some finishes fade and look really good.
I have a 98~ PRS CE that was trans purple which had completely faded, its almost a pink salmon color that looks so good imo. So in some cases it works. I will say Ive heard that PRS understands this issue and has refinished guitars with clouding for free! not sure about blue finish issues but I have email PRS PTC and they did say they would refinish my PRS (i wanted to change the color but change my mind) but it would not be free (i was chaning the color from original)
Have you had he opportunity to try out Eastman guitars? Specifically their thinline series ending in Mx and the ones with the violin varnish finish (t59, t64)
They're super high end. Some would argue better than many USA made premium guitars even.
Eastman guitars are made in the USA. I own the Juliet model that came out last year. It’s an amazing guitar.
@@Tiago_007 They’re handcrafted in china, except for some models (D’Ambrosio)
@@Tiago_007the only US made ones are a limited run Otto did for the last namm
After guitars are made in China they do get setup and inspected in Pomona though. The Quality Control happens in the US.
The faded relics are going to be worth more in the future if you care about that sort of stuff. Not the cloudy so much, but the blue fade, definitely. Rarer the better.
My 1992 Custom 24, whale blue 10 top which I bought new has started to turn a bit light green and fade some. I could care less. It still plays and sounds killer and I’ll play it till I can’t! Best guitar I’ve ever owned and I turn 70 in October 2024! 😉🎸
So will keeping my blue PRS guitars in their case help preserve the color? I have an S2 anniversary McCarty that is absolutly perfect the way it is.
Yes it should. Not all blues are equally susceptible. Faded whale blue, purples, northern lights, glacier blue are the most susceptible. Blue Matteo, Blue Crab Blue less so
In the market for my 1st PRS. Thx for sharing this info!
You actually have a point, i do have a hazy spot but i never actually minded that, I still enjoy my PRS nevertheless, fantastic guitars
I had a natural finish CE-22 standard from 96 so mahogany body maple neck. It pains me that I let it go. It was cloudy especially around the neck joint and smelled like an old hall (you know the smell inside the PRS case?) and I loved its character.
I love my PRS. Plays great sounds great and stays in tune. That’s a great combo.
Hmmmm sounds to me that the issue would be a lack of proper sealing of the wood. Especially considering that the guitars you show are solid body. Which begs the questions how is the moisture getting under the top coat. Or could it be insufficient drying, and over time the moisture is coming up out of the wood, and interacting with the top coat? However a good sealer, applied over the entire body (neck, pickup, and control cavities included) would trap the moisture in.
Yeah I know nothing about finishing guitars. Hopefully someone who works in PRS can illuminate the matter some day
And if you watch the recent 2+ hour PRS tour in Anderton’s channel, they are VERY particular about the percentage of humidity in the wood that goes into their guitars. You’re making me nervous cos I just ordered an S2 24-08 in lake blue. And it’s not like they’re cheap. And you don’t even get a real case with a $2500 guitar!😮
@@RRBish if I can make you feel slightly better. Two things, 1) I haven't seen any clouding post 2015 2) Different blues have differing levels of fade. I haven't heard of lake blue fading much if at allo
Have you ever tried a Vigier and what do you think about their quality?
Haven’t had the chance to try one yet
WAY too timely. I'm trading in my PRS McCarty Eriza Verde for the solid black DW CE hardtail. I'm assuming I won't have to deal with any finish clouding and fading with solid black right?
Clouding has been non existent post 2015ish. And yes solid black won't fade
Black dont crack@@ministryofguitar
The Korean SE is still perfect after 15 years no neck joint or color changes
I have 3 PRS core !, they all ding Or scratch very Very very EASY 😢!, but I love the tone !, and the ease of play 🤫
I have S/H 1998 custom 22 ,10 top that was purple which has faded to a lovely medium/ light Orange ,beautiful,no clouding, I'm made up with it.
The seller was quite honest about the fading of which I never would have known about as it looks perfectly natural !. I wouldn't have bought it if it was still Purple.
My other PRS including a 1994 Santana Orange Mk2 and has no signs of a finish problem, brilliant Orange just like Santana's.
Any finish problems will show up years later perhaps to poor storage , exposure to excessive sunlight , humidity, especially in a hot country.
I question whether it is a fault with the actual materials in most cases,if it is then other guitar manufacturers will have the same problem.
Red is very prone to fading on cars even in the UK's cold damp climate and other articles too it's unfortunate but that's how it is.
PRS or any manufacturer cannot be held responsible for unforeseen finish problems due to natural fading or poor storage.
At the end of the day its the playability of the instrument that matters ,not looks and PRS are one of the best ,and they stay in tune !
I agree. The only thing I’ll kind of push on a little is that some PRSs colours fade a little in very normal use. I just think they should come with a warning for non involved customers. But as you said, it doesn’t affect playability
@@ministryofguitar I decided to check the colour on the faded to orange custom 22 I mentioned under the stoptail and it was vivid purple! which proves its the sunlight that's the culprit in this case.
I know that clouding on furniture is caused by moisture from watering plants and can be removed by heating gently with an warm iron over white cartridge or blotting paper,but I wouldn't like to try it on my PRS or any other guitar...!
I wonder if a large bag of silica gel kept in the guitar case with the guitar would cure the clouding? or even in the empty case ,or put the empty case in the sun for a few days ! if the case is damp then it may cause clouding?
I’ve owned many PRS and Gibbons. I still love my 24 year old LP but I don’t reach for it as much.
PRS & Gibsons can be awfully pretty and pretty flawed too…I now buy Ltds which are generally 9/10 - 10/10 for a third of the price of either U.S. made PRS or standard Gibson.
They don’t smell as good but then again I’m not a headstock sniffer anymore.
You have more PRS guitars than all the guitar shops in my city put together, been looking to try a DGT for the last 2 months and no one has it in stock
😂
My city as well. For the Private Stocks and cores. I may need to consult a shrink 😂
Wow, I had no idea about this stuff. This is a problem. They are incredible guitars but their beauty is a big reason why people buy them.
There’s also some videos out there talking about how their new finishes do not wear well compared to older finishes.
To be honest, all this stuff puts me off a bit. I was thinking about eventually buying a nice 10 top something down the line but now I don’t know. Maybe it will be a Suhr after all.
This is quite shocking to be honest…
Yeah the clouding is definitely a bummer. In the interest of fairness I should point out (as I mentioned in the video) that it only affects guitars from a certain period. The frailty of the post 2020 finishes is a different issue on a different finish and it’s because PRS moved to nitro then.
Well... I assume since PRS moved to nitro finishes, ALL of them will yellow over time. But it's worked in the favor of the Gibson aftermarket. People love those silverbursts that have gone yellow.
I have 5 PRS ('98 McCarty, 2000 McCarty, a new Myles Kennedy, a Santana SE and a 245 SE). Also have multiple Gibson Les Paul's, Fender Strats and Teles along with a couple Rickenbackers and a Gretsch. Hands down, the US PRS's are superior to all the rest, yet all the others have their place somewhere, sometime in the tonal pallet in particular recordings. On a scale of 1 to ten, descending from 1, I would put the finish the least important factor
If there's a PRS finish I can't stand, it's denim. Something about the texture just doesn't work for me. You're telling me this fades to a jade green? Suddenly I'm intrigued!
Clouding is a problem I have with my Washburn 12-string. Didn't appear until I moved to Colorado. Oddly enough, it's like the guitar is growing armor. As you say, it sounds no different, so I'm inclined to count it as part of the character of my beloved instrument.
Great video, thanks!
Thank you for watching
About time someone discussed the clouding issue that prs factory ignores won’t own up to and live had 20:prs cores and 8 have clouded. And I live in Maryland
Similar issue with floor finishes...
I always talk homeowners into using oil based finishes....water based floor finish have that muted, clouded appearance as well...im thinking Paul let some slick supplier talk him into the "advantages " of water based finishes i.e. environmental and worker safety ...now the results after the test of time ....
This water vs oil based makes a lot of sense to me actually
Clouding and fading, it’s just how PRS guitars “relic”
can i imagine the future generations having a great time with this
And it looks like shit
You can send them to PRS for refinishing.
a bit inconvenient when you live in Asia :)
@ministryofguitar I saw a thing where a guy sent his back to PRS Europe and it came back looking new so they dont necessarily have to go to America. If its just a case of posting it I'd say its worth doing
Contact PRS tech centre.
It would be a good series on your channel getting one refinished
Hazing is usually a humidity issue when finish is applied..
I have heard this as well
You should get that C24 professionally refinished honestly.
Shouldnt be a problem with my dgt se gold top...
But, I have a custom 24 where its an issue
What about adding some factor 50 sun lotion to a wax based polish. Obviously make sure the lotion doesn't react with the finish, first. Then build a up several layers to form a UV resistant skin. Might work? I don't have multiple PRS guitars to test this out on but maybe worth a try.
so you're telling me if I buy a blue pro, I get two guitars in one? that's a steal.
Dishonest sellers in the guitar market?? Heavens! That couldn't possibly be true...could it??
Haha
These guitars sound great, look great, guitars age it's no big deal. If it bugs you keep it out of the Sunlight.
Do Tom Anderson or Suhr guitars have the same 'blue' problem? No. It boggles my mind that Private Stock Owners find this fading OK.
For me it seems the guitar ages like wine when it fades
Fix your jacket
I was introduced to the brand through Mikael Akerfeldt (Opeth).
I am a huge Opeth fan
...your collar is driving me nuts.
I personally don't care about looks that much, at least up to a point. I used to play violin. I have played several violins, some a couple hundred used old. One in particular ( that got stolen 😞 ) sounded fantastic, yet it had far more scars than newer violins. I really didn't care. It's an instrument not a painting.
PRS may make great guitars but I wouldn't buy one. I kind of dislike the PRS bull shit factor. For instance he insists tone wood makes a difference on solid body electrics. Yet I've never seen that proven and there are videos that disprove it pretty convincingly (here's maybe the best one: ua-cam.com/video/n02tImce3AE/v-deo.html ) . Just admit your building a status symbol and leave it at that. That's how Gibson is still in business.
Your best video was the one you said it's not about music. That's exactly right, at least in the majority of cases.
Well, he does not say anything about _how much_ it affects. He rightfully points out the the sound of the guitar is the sum of its parts. For instance, if you have rubber nut, the string vibration will be negatively impacted. He is not going to deny that the microphone does the most, and that swapping the microphones will have a huge impact on the sound. (Not to mention the speaker the guitar is plugged into.) But his point is just that the microphones can only pick up what is already there. Which is the acoustic vibration of the strings. The wood impacts the acoustic sound, the vibrations you feel towards your chest, and the sound you hear in the room, and as the player. Whether this is a meaningful difference to you, I leave for you to decide. If you only care about what the recorded sound is, and not the playing experience, then put all your money into the recording equipment and speakers.
What PRS prides himself on, is to fine-tune all of the different 30-ish factors that accumulates to a great guitar. And sure, he does have the air of an "used cars-salesman" at times, but he does seem to believe what he preach, and it is hard to deny his results.
@@Henriktranoy "Which is the acoustic vibration of the strings." A solid body electric doesn't pickup acoustic vibration. I specifically wrote "solid body electric" for that reason. Nobody is arguing that wood, shape etc, affects the sound of an acoustic guitar the same as it does a violin.
@@zemlidrakona2915 . No worries! I was also talking about a solid-body electric guitar!
Now then, go and strum an electric guitar, and tell me that the body doesn't vibrate. Now go and strum a second guitar, and tell me that it doesn't sound differently.
Now plug both these guitars into the same amp, and they will sound fairly similar, depending on settings.
My claim is something along these lines, Amp, 95-ish% of the sound, guitar ~5%.
Paul talks about 30 factors in the guitar that composes the sound. so 5%/(30 components) ==> acoustics is about 0.2% of the sound you get out.
Of course, if you skip the amp, and only focus on the guitar, it will be higher. The wood isn't the end all, be all (far from it). But it really does impact what you as the player hear and feel. Even if it doesn't come across on a recording (apparat from indirectly, if it affects how you play it)
@@Henriktranoy Of course solid bodies sound different unplugged. I have one that is louder than my arch-top. Oddly enough it's a cheap strat style copy made of ply-wood. However the contribution of the wood doesn't translate into anything, or at least nothing perceptible when plugged in. I've seen enough tests to convince me of that. Now if someone wants to actually do tests that prove otherwise, with at least the controls that Jim Lill used, I'll be happy to reconsider. But I can't help noticing all the "proof" is anecdotal.
@@zemlidrakona2915 I think we are in reasonable agreements about a plugged in guitar.
I'd hasten to add that I don't think "louder" equals "better", as similarly, my cheapest electric is the loudest. However, it sustains like crap, the tonal quality is bad. (It somehow sound like it falls out of tune as it sustains, and I don't understand how that is possible)
Good tests are of course, difficult to come buy. It requires time, energy and money.
One interesting "test" is was done by Kyle Bull, watch?v=2_XO6Gr1Abk&ab_channel=KyleBull Where he is testing two "identical" guitars where one has a maple cap and the other does not. Otherwise "the same". He tries on a few different people playing, and they are mostly in agreement of the sound qualities.
Of course. Not exactly the same guitar, different strings (same set, but), same kind of microphones, but how big are the natural variance among those?
I would have like to see this test done with 3 guitars, where two had maple top, and seen if there was any difference between them as well.
Still would not be a perfect test, and even here. the two guitars are so close, that I would not let the maple caps "sound quality" be a factor in which one of those I'd like.
You have how many PRS's? Sir; you have a problem, but do not worry. For we are all here to help!😊
Need all the help needed
the only problem with PRS is they keep bringing new better guitar models.. that we want to buy
Great video!
Thank you. Appreciate you watching it
It’s not a bug. It’s a feature.
Yes let the guitar fade ..cough, cough, age with you
It’s natural relic
the first PRS you showed... I have never seen one with a body that fat... it's like an ES335 in width. most of the modern PRS guitars are so skinny great video
That's disappointing to hear and I have never heard about this. To me, the key thing about a PRS is the stunning looks. Specifically, the paint and tops. If it fades, to me, I'd be upset. Especially if I paid 10 top prices for it. it's definitely a real problem. The clouding, it's an issue for only items of a certain age. And as long as discounted, would make good affordable player grade guitars. For a poor person looking for a quality guitar, this could be a good option (as long as you don't care about the looks).
I think you hit the nail on the head. Clouded PRSs are great deals for players who want amazing guitars. And yes, if one was to buy one for the looks, it would be super disappointing
Don’t care honestly. Love my PRS guitars. Most comfortable guitars to play