Thank you for all the thought you put in your videos. It makes our climbing so much safer, plus endless discussions about safety in the post climbing beer sessions. Excellent work
Thanks. You are one of the few producing videos showing what everyone needs to do - seek out all the weaknesses and ways techniques and devices can malfunction instead of raving about every new gizmo. Strange things do happen; I know a person whose rappel rope came unclipped from the single non-locking anchor (they caught their fall by grabbing the nearby haul line, severely burning their hands); another had their top carabiner break, when it oscillated the gate open in a long fall. Two more died when their belay anchor was ripped off the wall in a likely factor two fall onto the belayer. Few experience the forces long falls can generate, becoming complacent over time and nonchalant about how bombproof anchors really need to be. If there is a way some device might fail, eventually it will, and knowing how to avoid or work around its weak points is essential, before that happens.
The fact that the Vergo can fail like that is such an obvious oversight and it's shocking that Trango doesn't ship it with a carabiner that prevents this. I find it to be almost the perfect belay device when paired with something like the BD gridlock with the device in the small loop. I haven't been able to get it to jam at all when using the gridlock that way.
Thank you for your videos! Also thank you for putting that information out for people who (yet) can't afford your course. I believe it's worth every penny!
Great video explaining various issues with somewhat similar devices. I TRS with a TAZ LOV2 and a CT Roll and Lock as my back up which I find extremely comfortable.
Thanks Yann. I use the Kong Backup above a Lov2. I will mess around with my setup and see if I can get it to move into the position you show. I use a chest harness - the locker on the Kong is also going through both loops of the chest harness. I don't think it can rotate onto the top of the Kong. Will update you and send a photo when I have it out next.
Thanks for the video. Great as usual. I TRS with the Trango Vergo. I am aware of the failure mode, same happened back with the Grigri 1 mod. Nevertheless I consider rather manageable the risk in the real world in my case: (1) I use a chest harness tied to a 1.5mm lanyward tied to the axis of the Trango Vergo lever (blocking the binner from going over the lever easily) (2) I use an HMS carabiner with the bar preventing cross loading. In the carabiner I insert rubber limiters or just tie it with tape to the Vergo, reducing the possible travel/slack of the device-carabiner connection.. With (1) and (2) I do not believe the wrong positioning over the lever that blocks the cam. (3) I have a Petzl Micro Traxion (or a CT roll and lock) below the Trango Vergo. This is the backup. I never had the backup actioning and quite do not see it happening. Disclaimer: climbing is dangerous and I am not a professional guide. I do not recommend TRS.
1+2+3 sounds like it is keeping you safe! Recently I tested all connectors with all devices. Found out only the BD gridlock "upside-down" makes it impossible for the Vergo to load "wrong".... If you can test on your side and let me know your results! Cheers!
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing Yann thanks for the reply. I feel much better by knowing your expert opinion. But I thought I could do better setup. I will try over the weekend other connectors including the BD gridlock you suggested, the Beal Orient Express, and the Mammut Smart HMS. I nevertheless wanted to know your opinion of a stainless steel UIAA cert 8mm Maillon with the Salewa Maillon Twist Lock? Both will cost CAD $ 10 and weights 80g? Because of the smaller size, the increased KN, and the positioning and screw check advantages provided by the Salewa gadget, I believe this not only enable this setup for TRS but entirely eliminates the failure on the Trango Vergo. Do you concur?
@@cemlpc An 8mm maillon is absolutely king here! Because it is steel and I don't see a problem: I believe you could skip the "Salewa Maillon Twist Lock". You can try with and without it and see how it goes for you. It should be very very good. Let me know your experience please! It is always different "theory" vs "practice"... It can only be validated in the field!
I use the petzl shunt + the black diamond gridlock carabiner, the smaller hole in the carabiner is in the hole in the shunt! I never had any problems. 🤝🏻🇧🇷
Secure the device with a rubber ring to prevent it from moving, or use an anti-cross carabiner and turn it once to secure the device in a small hole. I think that solves most problems. What do you think, Yann?
@@cydrow it is all a question of pairing the connector correctly first. But I agree that some rubber rings can sometimes help too. It is not a one silver bullet solution here. Also: all devices can fail in some situations and a backup is necessary. Don’t trust your life to a single tool mentality…
In my opinion the best way to avoid twisting device similar to CT Easy move, Goblin and also Petzl Shunt on carabiner is to use one or two Petzl Tanga rubber rings on carabiner (does not work good if cross section of carabiner is too small). For devices like Singing Rock Locker the hole for connector is bigger and Tanga could block fall arrest device in bad direction and it will fail to catch. In my opinion it will be good to use 1 or 2 mm cord fastened with double fisherman"s on side without gate on carabiner and with overhand knot on a bight on the gate side. Moreover it will be good to minimize the slippage of cord on the non gate side with Tanga. This solution is easy to make and should stop unwanted movements and twisting of device.
I use the petzl shunt + the black diamond gridlock carabiner, the smaller hole in the carabiner is in the hole in the shunt! I never had any problems. 🤝🏻🇧🇷
Thanks for sharing your findings on those devices. I’ve started TRS during the COVID and I’m using a PETZL rescucender as primary device and a petzl ascension as backup. I recently changed my backup device by Edelrid spoc (cutting the small corde that can block the came), but up to now I only tested the spoc at home not while climbing. I think one of the many risk that has soloing (lead or top) independently of the device is cross loading, and if you want to reduce risk is always good to have anti cross loading system, in your demonstration the risk of failure could be well reduced by using good cross loading systems. Personally I use two CT Concept SGL HC HMS carabiner and use some rubber around the device to avoid cross loading. I’m wondering did you already test the rescucender and could you find failure case ?
I have had great success with a grigri for TRS and a weight at the bottom. I use double length sling as a chest harness with the X on my back. I put one side of the sling in the carabiner, then the put on the grigri, and then the other sling so that the chest harness holds the grigri's carabiner upright. I like that it engages immediately. I have fallen probably a hundred times on the grigri and never once had an issue. Cons are its difficult to pull slack if tying a backup knot, or trying to clean an anchor, and extremely overhanging routes are almost out of the question. I would have to make that call. But I have an idea regarding LRS When I was doing LRS, I wrapped a small piece of string around the rivet that holds the protective plate to the device, put a loop in it, and attached a small carabiner which would then connect to my double length chest harness. The lever would be on my right in this orientation. Then I would us a progress capture to maintain the slack loop. When I was doing test falls, I noticed my slack would be pulled out, but the friction from the progress capture would engage the grigri's cam. I have also heard-maintaining a large slack loop would also be enough weight to engage the grigri-I do not like this, and I dont think putting a hole through my grigri would solve this issue. I had an idea for a system in which I use a backpack with a flaked rope and then something to "pinch" the rope as it feeds out( it would feel similar to rope drag), so that there is resistance on the grigri-so much that it would engage the cam in the event of a fall-while minimizing the amount of slack between the bag and the grigri. What are your thoughts?
Lots of possibilities!! Whatever system, use a backup!! The grigri is not designed for rope solo and it has failed many times on people in all rope solo configurations. Thanks for contacting me about your rope solo questions! I know it's hard to find a comprehensive and reliable source of information on this topic. That's why I did my research, bought equipment, experimented and adopted a way to teach rope soloing. I do not answer questions in private. My reasons are the following: -It is dangerous to have partial information about security systems -I need an income to continue my mission to teach and innovate I would love to help you find answers to your questions! I suggest the following solutions: -An in-person course (blissclimbing-com.translate.goog/fr/formations/?_x_tr_sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en) -An online course (blissclimbing.com/en/online-courses/) -A subscription to my Patreon (I answer on the platform) (www.patreon.com/blissclimbing) I prefer to refer to complete courses. The courses should answer 99% of your questions and show you more things you haven't even thought of AND that are essential to being effective and safe! For any remaining questions, I answer every question asked by my clients and try to post everything on the hidden private Facebook groups reserved for buyers of online courses so that all buyers can benefit. I also very often add content to the courses because there is so much to say and teach on the subject AND I still learn quite often! You can always ask your questions on the “regular” public Facebook rope solo groups, but you won't get all correct answers and probably nothing complete. That's why my suggestion is to take the courses!! Looking forward to seeing you buy a course: you will be happy with your choice!!!
Wow. Incredible content. Have you tested the Micro Traxion with the Petzl Sm’D Auto Locker for top rope solo? (I have a few extra Sm’Ds and would rather not spend extra money if they are safe and suitable.). What about a Sm’D with the Rollnlock? Both seem to work okay, but would love your opinion. Thanks!
Thanks! I tested 65 connectors. Petzl Sm’D Auto Lock is NOT one of them. I only own the screw lock version sorry. You can get access to 1200+ devices/connectors pairings through my online courses or my patreon. blissclimbing.com/en/ Also I published a way to make most connectors safer for the topic we discuss. Also courses or my patreon. BR!
Thanks for contacting me about your rope solo questions! I know it's hard to find a comprehensive and reliable source of information on this topic. That's why I did my research, bought equipment, experimented and adopted a way to teach rope soloing. I do not answer questions in private. My reasons are the following: -It is dangerous to have partial information about security systems -I need an income to continue my mission to teach and innovate I would love to help you find answers to your questions! I suggest the following solutions: -An in-person course (blissclimbing-com.translate.goog/fr/formations/?_x_tr_sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en) -An online course (blissclimbing.com/en/online-courses/) -A subscription to my Patreon (I answer on the platform) (www.patreon.com/blissclimbing) I prefer to refer to complete courses. The courses should answer 99% of your questions and show you more things you haven't even thought of AND that are essential to being effective and safe! For any remaining questions, I answer every question asked by my clients and try to post everything on the hidden private Facebook groups reserved for buyers of online courses so that all buyers can benefit. I also very often add content to the courses because there is so much to say and teach on the subject AND I still learn quite often! You can always ask your questions on the “regular” public Facebook rope solo groups, but you won't get all correct answers and probably nothing complete. That's why my suggestion is to take the courses!! Looking forward to seeing you buy a course: you will be happy with your choice!!!
I mainly show what is dangerous on my UA-cam channel. I mainly show what I recommend and what is safe in my online courses: blissclimbing.com/en/online-courses/ Do you see where this is going? The Micro Traxion is a hell of a good TRS device! Pretty hard to make it fail. (but not impossible: use a backup and buy my courses! :-) ) Note that none of the devices I show here have teeth.
Respect the content, however I have seen you review the TAZ LOV 3 and say that 'it is possible' when talking about the front plate opening by something pressing then button. This would be a very similar scenario to what you are demonstrating here Trango Cinch or Vergo , possible but unlikely.
Have a device like the easy move. Ushba, made in russia. Old thing I had for about 20 years. Scary thing, and something your drop these wont show, is that if you grab the rope above the device in a fall, it can prevent it from locking. Let go and it'll lock, but not after you got some nice rope burn. Scary as F. Never use mine without a backup!
Hi Yann, some thoughts seeing your great video. None of the gear used is designed for soloing. It could be an idea, since you and your viewers have much solo experience to make a list of must have specs for a device. Like a Camp Goblin is a fine designed device, might me good for solo, it should be used with a steel carabiner, but for rope acces it fails because it either sticks to the rope, (does not follow, require manual lifting) or falls down, (dragging) which creates a fall a factor 2 fall. For testing, man you need a drop tower:)) 25kg on a rocker might hold, 85kg on a rocker sometimes it will stop, jump up, by the much greater rope stretch than semi static, is released again, falls 2 meters grabs again etc.
Hi awsome that you answer so many of the questions you get! Why didn't you test the rollnlock? And what do you think of a rollnlock held up with a cest harness above a micro traction, both of them being on the same strand?
A RollNLock would not have failed that way. I know it's hard to find a comprehensive and reliable source of information on this topic. That's why I did my research, bought equipment, experimented and adopted a way to teach rope soloing. I like to refer to my complete online courses. My reasons are the following: -It is dangerous to have partial information about security systems -I need an income to continue my mission to teach and innovate I would love to help you find answers to your questions! I suggest the following solutions: -An in-person course (blissclimbing-com.translate.goog/fr/formations/?_x_tr_sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en) -An online course (blissclimbing.com/en/online-courses/) -A subscription to my Patreon (I answer on the platform) (www.patreon.com/blissclimbing) I prefer to refer to complete courses. The courses should answer 99% of your questions and show you more things you haven't even thought of AND that are essential to being effective and safe! For any remaining questions, I answer every question asked by my clients and try to post everything on the hidden private Facebook groups reserved for buyers of online courses so that all buyers can benefit. I also very often add content to the courses because there is so much to say and teach on the subject AND I still learn quite often! You can always ask your questions on the “regular” public Facebook rope solo groups, but you won't get all correct answers and probably nothing complete. That's why my suggestion is to take the courses!! Looking forward to seeing you buy a course: you will be happy with your choice!!!
Did not hear what diameter rope you're using for this test. I'm considering using a DMM Buddy as a backup to my LRS set up. I would like to use a 10mm rope, but note that the Buddy specs are for 10.5 to 11.5mm.
The red rope is a Petzl 9.8 more than a few years old. Are you a member of the TRS goup on Facebook to share your setup before you commit to it? Cheers!
@YannCamusBlissClimbing Thanks Yann. I am a member of the FB group. I intend to replicate Gavin Cytlau's method from 2021. Set up includes Gri1 on a Maillon (no chest harness). Then a Buddy for backup with a Micro Traxion clipped into the Buddy for the cache loop. I'll cinch the Buddy and MT with 60cm 8mm dyneema close to the front of the waistband of my harness.
I use the Kong backup attached to my bridge and backed up with a Michoacán and I have a CT quick roll with an aider and I SRT with it, I’m 172# and it holds beautifully.
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing no, i use a black diamond rocklock or my kong xl D screwlock, i use it to srt or drt up a tree to hunting height between 15-35’, my bodyweight tension is always pulling downward so it will never experience the scenario you showed but thats good to know. And yes 172 lbs. michoacan is a certain friction hitch, doesnt bite as hard as the prussic and much easier to break and move along the mainline.
@@The_Fit_ness_monster Thanks for the light! Happy the Kong Back Up works for you! I recently pull tested many devices and the Kong Back Up was one of the strongest.. The sheath cut at 7.34kN on a 9.8mm rope - with no core strand cut. Device unharmed. Strong results!
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing awesome to hear, i use it with 11.7mm samson hyperclimb rope. Do you have a video of those pull tests? Im always intrigued by breaking strength videos.
@@The_Fit_ness_monster For now, I will be posting all videos in the Top Rope Solo course available here: blissclimbing.com/en/online-courses/ I will edit a selection of the most interesting and post on UA-cam. Also I would post to UA-cam all break tests on gear that people will donate!
Thanks for your comments! Thanks for contacting me about your rope solo questions! I know it's hard to find a comprehensive and reliable source of information on this topic. That's why I did my research, bought equipment, experimented and adopted a way to teach rope soloing. I do not answer questions in private. My reasons are the following: -It is dangerous to have partial information about security systems -I need an income to continue my mission to teach and innovate I would love to help you find answers to your questions! I suggest the following solutions: -An in-person course forms.gle/wZtGTwwRTLwpdSwW6 -An online course (broken website - should be here tomorrow) -A subscription to my Patreon (I answer on the platform) www.patreon.com/blissclimbing I prefer to refer to complete courses. The courses should answer 99% of your questions and show you more things you haven't even thought of AND that are essential to being effective and safe! For any remaining questions, I answer every question asked by my clients and try to post everything on the hidden private Facebook groups reserved for buyers of online courses so that all buyers can benefit. I also very often add content to the courses because there is so much to say and teach on the subject AND I still learn quite often! You can always ask your questions on the “regular” public Facebook rope solo groups, but you won't get all correct answers and probably nothing complete. That's why my suggestion is to take the courses!! Looking forward to seeing you buy a course: you will be happy with your choice!!!
Il y a toujours un doute! Dans tous les systèmes de solo (en tête et sur corde fixe), je recommande un backup. Je connais mieux le Goblin et le LOV et oui: je leur fait confiance à 9.5mm. Toujours avec un backup cependant! Pour le Kong Backup et le DMM Buddy 100, j'aimerais les tester plus...
Would you say the Trango Vergo is safe if you use a quicklink to connect the device? A quicklink is not big enough to twist over the top of the device and jam it open.
jeez i'm halfway through and so far i think you need to fall straight! here for the easy move.. dang that part was short. bought it for work on my steep roof, also i have been wanting to go to a short local crag and practice jumaring... I think the easy move on a second rope would be a good idea
I use the petzl shunt + the black diamond gridlock carabiner, the smaller hole in the carabiner is in the hole in the shunt! I never had any problems. 🤝🏻🇧🇷
Petzl Shunt don't need a bad connector to be unsafe: ua-cam.com/video/Xh5UJNvrLWM/v-deo.html . Also your "I never had any problems." I hear this all the time. It is called "survival bias" and a very interesting article is on wiki here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias . The conclusion is we have to NOT look at what healthy people use but rather look at what injured people use. Please injured people: reach to me so I can share your mistakes (anonymously is an option) and inform rope solo climbers and hopefully save some from injury.
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing Correct, that is called falsification of the device, as you tried in the GOOD video! We never know anything, if it worked correct many times in practice (verification). .
Anyone can make any device fail when in a test environment....however, in actual climbing, no one logically reaches up and moves the carabiner above the device in an attempt to fall.....not sure what you are trying to prove ....what you are leaving out is the advice of using the correct connection device per fall device while climbing....that would be more important rather than trashing nearly every device out there....the way this came across was that it would be better to stay home, drink a beer and never go to the crag again because whatever you do or what ever device you use is going to get you killed.
I own 30+ potential TRS (top rope solo) devices and only 3 fail in this video. I feel like you overreact! Yesterday I was TRSing on a climb and transitionned to the grigri to rappel. The top TRS device was disabled and the bottom TRS device was removed at that point. When I tried to load the grigri, it repeatedly failed at taking my weight and the combo of top TRS disabled device + grigri at bottom was failing me. It was a dangerous situation right there. I knew exactly the problem I was having because I study these kinds of risks. If you don't use a "tried and true" system and you don't study the risks associated to each device and systems, you risk to put yourself in a dangerous situation unknowingly. If you are not interested, look at other channels! I like learning and teaching the best methods out there to stay safe. A lot of people like learning too!
@YannCamusBlissClimbing wow...talk about being defensive after asking people for their opinion.....wow...if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen. Let me get this straight ...you were top roping with a gri gri and TWO back up devices and all three were failing?.....maybe you should ask, what am I doing wrong....you come across as a very sketchy climber by taking personal risks all in the name of making video's to TEACH others on what not to do. If this offends you, then maybe you should simply stop posting stuff that causes people to react in ways that you don't like. Why not put a disclaimer in front of all your video's that simply says that you only want people who agree with your perspective to respond.....nuff said.
It does… More testing is on the way. There are a total of about 12 systems I recommend, teach and use all in my online course: blissclimbing.com/en/online-courses/
The taz lov2 or lov3 are very good yes but are you descending with only that device ? The handle release the rope realy fast and esay, I thing its dangerous for the rappel. If you need another device the the descend why using a taz ?
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing I have a DMM Buddy, but I have not used it yet. I plan to use it for solo top rope this week. I can let you know how it goes. I have used the Rock Exotica/Wren Soloist to top rope solo. It was very good. I always used a chest harness with it. I sold it. Some regret about selling it.
@@mountaineer5596 Will you have a backup with the DMM Buddy? Yes the Soloist is a good device. But I prefer the LOV3. With the good setup I believe it is better overall than the Soloist. Especially for TRS only, to rappel, not to say if you go to rescue someone...
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing I have the newer Petzl Rescucender for backup. I intend to place the Rescucender above the DMM Buddy so that it will go taught after the Buddy goes taught. I’m careful enough so that I will also put overhand-on-a-bite knots in the rope below me as I climb the top rope. I can tie these with one hand.
@@mountaineer5596 I never recommend 2 smooth devices. At least 1 should have teeth. Because if the top device fails, it can make the bottom one fail easy! Or do you use 2 ropes? Also I do not like the new Rescucender: never found a reliable way of using it...
I broke a Petrzl ASAP in a very very mild fall on a dynamic rope. No screamer. Today it is recommended only on a semi-static rope and only with a ASAP'sorber screamer (if I remember well). I don't recommend it. But please let me know your experience with it!
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing Oh wow! Well I use an ASAP lock for work all the time accompanied by an ID. But i’ve never fallen on my Asap. So far so good for me. but as long as it doesn’t come off the rope i’m happy if it breaks. but at 300 bucks it should be bulletproof
Good to know I'm a rope access worker and use a kong backup on occasion for rebelays and such might add a little electrical tape to the biner so it can't travel down the spine and cross load so easily... by the way us rope swingers think you're badass
@@TheOKayStonemaster Thanks for the comment! Who are rope swingers? If you look in the CT Easy Speed manual, they tell you about using an "anti-crossing string". I believe Kong Back-Up users should also use an "anti-crossing string" or some tape / rubber band on the harness side of the connector connecting the Kong Back-Up.
You've probably done it elsewhere, but does the MT fail in the same way? That's my primary, hence my interested question... (I do use a cordelette to keep the device in the up position though)
None of the "toothed" devices will fail that way. The Petzl Micro Traxion will typically fail if the toothed cam is locked in the open position for some reason (user error or weird thing during the climb) AND will fail if an object (a cordelette or bit of fabric) gets caught between the teeth and the rope. It can also be damage in some weird scenarios.
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing good points. yes, i do check manically that the metal thing with the teeth is always on the rope, not hovering over it. Especially since getting the MT off the rope at the anchors sometimes involves having to lift the teeth off the rope.
Hi, Thanks for your videos. I was wondering if the TAZ devices can be used for belaying a partner. I don't see why it wouldn't work but I cannot find a single video of this and I don't think it is indeed to be use for that. Have you tried it? Is it ok?
The LOV2 and LOV3 are certified for EN 15151-1 use. Like a grigri. Assisted belay device. So yes it is ok! Now I don't remember trying it to belay a partner for 3 reasons: 1- I rarely climb with a partner 2- The LOV is 370g vs Grigri at 175g so the LOV is not my goto 3- I have a bad memory for this... But not that if I was going on a rescue or any hardcore situation I would reach for my LOV right away! Makes sense?
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing thanks for the detailed and fast answer. I would love to see a test about it, if it is similar to a Grigri I don't really see a big issue with the weight (for sport climbing i mean). I way more curious about how smooth and safe is it when belaying. I am definitely thinking about buying a TAZ and I would find it a great + if it can be a smooth assisted belay on top of being (one of) the best for TRS. When/if I cross the bridge of TRS i will probably take your course in order to have the most knowledge. Thank again work all your work. Take care
@@StephaneDubois-ie3tb Thanks!! I would love to know if people get to belay with the LOV. If people have dropped climbers with a grigri, I would be worried that more people drop climbers with the LOV because the rope path is straight in the LOV. So if you maintain it in open position, I guess the rope will slip through VERY easily!! But as soon as you grab the dead side of the rope, the LOV will rotate and grab I have no doubt! Thanks for your kindness 🙂
Hi Yann - what is the failure mode if it catches between your legs if the device has no external handle (e.g. DMM Buddy 100). It looks like there would be nothing to 'squeeze' or 'catch'. Is it because you can turn it upside down and lock it?
With the Camp Goblin for example, the device has to be free of "floating" upward while you are falling so it catches reliably. If the device is between your squeezed legs, you can "drag" the device along the rope and make it slide "forever". I have never seen a failure that way but with reinforced pants I am willing to live-test it and show it on UA-cam!! Any remaining question?
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing Ah I see - it's a geometry thing - if it holds it's "draging up" position, it doesn't bind at all. Hopefully there will be enough drag in the down direction to escape from legs... Interesting one though! Make the tether short enough so it can't get between legs?
@@largeformatlandscape "Make the tether short enough" Exactly my thinking! Short and compatible. Very very short (Petzl Ring Open + 8mm maillon can be a great option with Camp Goblin)
I don’t recommend prusiks for TRS and LRS by the way. Prusiks are good for tree work, makeshift ascenders for self-rescue, third hand in a rappel. People like to buy gear. But really all the pointers you need for TRS and LRS efficiently while managing the risks are in my online courses. Chances are you already own what you need to TRS or LRS in a reasonable way!! blissclimbing.com/en/online-courses/ Do you use prusiks for TRS climbing?
🗽 Use a Micro Traxion from Petzl... but it is not for falling, it's for holding you in the position. Falling is always a problem if the stopping is not dynamically !!! ☝ .
By the way: only one Climbing Technology Easy Move left where I got it: coastropes.ca/products/climbing-technology-easy-move ... ALSO: about the Kong Back-Up: I am 99% sure it can fail with this recommended connector: www.kong.it/en/product/ovalone-carbon-screw-sleeve/ I don't see why there would be a difference! Would someone who owns it be able to make it fail for me and inform me? Thanks!!!
The recommended carabiner is not one with a straight non-gate side. That will change how likely it is to be stable in the twisted configuration. Besides, it is not designed to be used in a way that directly connects it to a climbing-style harness (where cross-loading is more likely). They attempt to make that clear in the manual.
So between the 7 devices presented here, my favorite device is hands down the LOV. I use it mainly for rope access, rescues and top rope solo (TRS). Makes sense?
“Climbers dead. This is not very good”
🤣 so funny.
I love this video. Thanks for doing all of these tests.
Thank you for all the thought you put in your videos. It makes our climbing so much safer, plus endless discussions about safety in the post climbing beer sessions. Excellent work
Thanks. You are one of the few producing videos showing what everyone needs to do - seek out all the weaknesses and ways techniques and devices can malfunction instead of raving about every new gizmo. Strange things do happen; I know a person whose rappel rope came unclipped from the single non-locking anchor (they caught their fall by grabbing the nearby haul line, severely burning their hands); another had their top carabiner break, when it oscillated the gate open in a long fall. Two more died when their belay anchor was ripped off the wall in a likely factor two fall onto the belayer. Few experience the forces long falls can generate, becoming complacent over time and nonchalant about how bombproof anchors really need to be. If there is a way some device might fail, eventually it will, and knowing how to avoid or work around its weak points is essential, before that happens.
The fact that the Vergo can fail like that is such an obvious oversight and it's shocking that Trango doesn't ship it with a carabiner that prevents this. I find it to be almost the perfect belay device when paired with something like the BD gridlock with the device in the small loop. I haven't been able to get it to jam at all when using the gridlock that way.
I agree I came to the same conclusion and used the Trango Vergo with the small loop of the BD Gridlock! Thanks for your feedback!!
Thank you for your videos! Also thank you for putting that information out for people who (yet) can't afford your course. I believe it's worth every penny!
Wow, I see I have an ascender that fails your test. A real eye opener!
Thank you
Great video explaining various issues with somewhat similar devices. I TRS with a TAZ LOV2 and a CT Roll and Lock as my back up which I find extremely comfortable.
Thank you for that amazing video, again 💪🏻
Keep it up.
Thanks Yann. I use the Kong Backup above a Lov2. I will mess around with my setup and see if I can get it to move into the position you show. I use a chest harness - the locker on the Kong is also going through both loops of the chest harness. I don't think it can rotate onto the top of the Kong. Will update you and send a photo when I have it out next.
Absolutely would love to see your rig it sounds like something else!! Thanks for this!!
Thanks for the video. Great as usual. I TRS with the Trango Vergo. I am aware of the failure mode, same happened back with the Grigri 1 mod. Nevertheless I consider rather manageable the risk in the real world in my case:
(1) I use a chest harness tied to a 1.5mm lanyward tied to the axis of the Trango Vergo lever (blocking the binner from going over the lever easily)
(2) I use an HMS carabiner with the bar preventing cross loading. In the carabiner I insert rubber limiters or just tie it with tape to the Vergo, reducing the possible travel/slack of the device-carabiner connection..
With (1) and (2) I do not believe the wrong positioning over the lever that blocks the cam.
(3) I have a Petzl Micro Traxion (or a CT roll and lock) below the Trango Vergo. This is the backup.
I never had the backup actioning and quite do not see it happening.
Disclaimer: climbing is dangerous and I am not a professional guide. I do not recommend TRS.
1+2+3 sounds like it is keeping you safe! Recently I tested all connectors with all devices. Found out only the BD gridlock "upside-down" makes it impossible for the Vergo to load "wrong".... If you can test on your side and let me know your results! Cheers!
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing Yann thanks for the reply. I feel much better by knowing your expert opinion. But I thought I could do better setup. I will try over the weekend other connectors including the BD gridlock you suggested, the Beal Orient Express, and the Mammut Smart HMS. I nevertheless wanted to know your opinion of a stainless steel UIAA cert 8mm Maillon with the Salewa Maillon Twist Lock? Both will cost CAD $ 10 and weights 80g? Because of the smaller size, the increased KN, and the positioning and screw check advantages provided by the Salewa gadget, I believe this not only enable this setup for TRS but entirely eliminates the failure on the Trango Vergo. Do you concur?
@@cemlpc An 8mm maillon is absolutely king here! Because it is steel and I don't see a problem: I believe you could skip the "Salewa Maillon Twist Lock". You can try with and without it and see how it goes for you. It should be very very good. Let me know your experience please! It is always different "theory" vs "practice"... It can only be validated in the field!
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing I could not resist and went Trad climbing. Promise I will try and let you know. Merci pour le conseil!
I use the petzl shunt + the black diamond gridlock carabiner, the smaller hole in the carabiner is in the hole in the shunt! I never had any problems. 🤝🏻🇧🇷
Secure the device with a rubber ring to prevent it from moving, or use an anti-cross carabiner and turn it once to secure the device in a small hole. I think that solves most problems. What do you think, Yann?
@@cydrow it is all a question of pairing the connector correctly first. But I agree that some rubber rings can sometimes help too. It is not a one silver bullet solution here. Also: all devices can fail in some situations and a backup is necessary. Don’t trust your life to a single tool mentality…
Please do an updated video for this test for Neox, etc. it will be interesting to see the results.
@@KawaiiKamikaze1 I am working on it. But the NEOX fails at self-belay.
In my opinion the best way to avoid twisting device similar to CT Easy move, Goblin and also Petzl Shunt on carabiner is to use one or two Petzl Tanga rubber rings on carabiner (does not work good if cross section of carabiner is too small). For devices like Singing Rock Locker the hole for connector is bigger and Tanga could block fall arrest device in bad direction and it will fail to catch. In my opinion it will be good to use 1 or 2 mm cord fastened with double fisherman"s on side without gate on carabiner and with overhand knot on a bight on the gate side. Moreover it will be good to minimize the slippage of cord on the non gate side with Tanga. This solution is easy to make and should stop unwanted movements and twisting of device.
I use the petzl shunt + the black diamond gridlock carabiner, the smaller hole in the carabiner is in the hole in the shunt! I never had any problems. 🤝🏻🇧🇷
I've been using the cinch for years. Never had 1 issue with it. Used it in every way I can think of.
Be careful out there. Use a backup! (I always recommend a backup as every system can fail)
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing I tie knots, or use a second device. About 98% of it use is belaying.
Thanks for sharing your findings on those devices. I’ve started TRS during the COVID and I’m using a PETZL rescucender as primary device and a petzl ascension as backup. I recently changed my backup device by Edelrid spoc (cutting the small corde that can block the came), but up to now I only tested the spoc at home not while climbing. I think one of the many risk that has soloing (lead or top) independently of the device is cross loading, and if you want to reduce risk is always good to have anti cross loading system, in your demonstration the risk of failure could be well reduced by using good cross loading systems. Personally I use two CT Concept SGL HC HMS carabiner and use some rubber around the device to avoid cross loading.
I’m wondering did you already test the rescucender and could you find failure case ?
@@briceschaffner5980 very poor video I know. I have a better one in my online TRS course: ua-cam.com/video/Fo4hHvswvlQ/v-deo.htmlsi=bu0LWL3V8inGI-sL
I have had great success with a grigri for TRS and a weight at the bottom. I use double length sling as a chest harness with the X on my back. I put one side of the sling in the carabiner, then the put on the grigri, and then the other sling so that the chest harness holds the grigri's carabiner upright. I like that it engages immediately. I have fallen probably a hundred times on the grigri and never once had an issue. Cons are its difficult to pull slack if tying a backup knot, or trying to clean an anchor, and extremely overhanging routes are almost out of the question. I would have to make that call. But I have an idea regarding LRS
When I was doing LRS, I wrapped a small piece of string around the rivet that holds the protective plate to the device, put a loop in it, and attached a small carabiner which would then connect to my double length chest harness. The lever would be on my right in this orientation. Then I would us a progress capture to maintain the slack loop. When I was doing test falls, I noticed my slack would be pulled out, but the friction from the progress capture would engage the grigri's cam. I have also heard-maintaining a large slack loop would also be enough weight to engage the grigri-I do not like this, and I dont think putting a hole through my grigri would solve this issue.
I had an idea for a system in which I use a backpack with a flaked rope and then something to "pinch" the rope as it feeds out( it would feel similar to rope drag), so that there is resistance on the grigri-so much that it would engage the cam in the event of a fall-while minimizing the amount of slack between the bag and the grigri.
What are your thoughts?
Lots of possibilities!! Whatever system, use a backup!! The grigri is not designed for rope solo and it has failed many times on people in all rope solo configurations.
Thanks for contacting me about your rope solo questions! I know it's hard to find a comprehensive and reliable source of information on this topic. That's why I did my research, bought equipment, experimented and adopted a way to teach rope soloing. I do not answer questions in private. My reasons are the following:
-It is dangerous to have partial information about security systems
-I need an income to continue my mission to teach and innovate
I would love to help you find answers to your questions! I suggest the following solutions:
-An in-person course (blissclimbing-com.translate.goog/fr/formations/?_x_tr_sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en)
-An online course (blissclimbing.com/en/online-courses/)
-A subscription to my Patreon (I answer on the platform) (www.patreon.com/blissclimbing)
I prefer to refer to complete courses. The courses should answer 99% of your questions and show you more things you haven't even thought of AND that are essential to being effective and safe! For any remaining questions, I answer every question asked by my clients and try to post everything on the hidden private Facebook groups reserved for buyers of online courses so that all buyers can benefit. I also very often add content to the courses because there is so much to say and teach on the subject AND I still learn quite often! You can always ask your questions on the “regular” public Facebook rope solo groups, but you won't get all correct answers and probably nothing complete. That's why my suggestion is to take the courses!! Looking forward to seeing you buy a course: you will be happy with your choice!!!
Wow. Incredible content. Have you tested the Micro Traxion with the Petzl Sm’D Auto Locker for top rope solo? (I have a few extra Sm’Ds and would rather not spend extra money if they are safe and suitable.). What about a Sm’D with the Rollnlock? Both seem to work okay, but would love your opinion. Thanks!
Thanks! I tested 65 connectors. Petzl Sm’D Auto Lock is NOT one of them. I only own the screw lock version sorry. You can get access to 1200+ devices/connectors pairings through my online courses or my patreon. blissclimbing.com/en/ Also I published a way to make most connectors safer for the topic we discuss. Also courses or my patreon. BR!
Would love to see you test a shunt for rope solo
Something like this? ua-cam.com/video/Xh5UJNvrLWM/v-deo.html
What do you think of the rescucender for top rope solo? I usually use that and a petzl traxion.
I'd like to see a video of your back up set up. I use a TazLov on its own but am considering using another device as a back up.
Thanks for contacting me about your rope solo questions! I know it's hard to find a comprehensive and reliable source of information on this topic. That's why I did my research, bought equipment, experimented and adopted a way to teach rope soloing. I do not answer questions in private. My reasons are the following:
-It is dangerous to have partial information about security systems
-I need an income to continue my mission to teach and innovate
I would love to help you find answers to your questions! I suggest the following solutions:
-An in-person course (blissclimbing-com.translate.goog/fr/formations/?_x_tr_sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en)
-An online course (blissclimbing.com/en/online-courses/)
-A subscription to my Patreon (I answer on the platform) (www.patreon.com/blissclimbing)
I prefer to refer to complete courses. The courses should answer 99% of your questions and show you more things you haven't even thought of AND that are essential to being effective and safe! For any remaining questions, I answer every question asked by my clients and try to post everything on the hidden private Facebook groups reserved for buyers of online courses so that all buyers can benefit. I also very often add content to the courses because there is so much to say and teach on the subject AND I still learn quite often! You can always ask your questions on the “regular” public Facebook rope solo groups, but you won't get all correct answers and probably nothing complete. That's why my suggestion is to take the courses!! Looking forward to seeing you buy a course: you will be happy with your choice!!!
great work thanks for uploading! why did you decide to not include the petzl micro traxion?
I mainly show what is dangerous on my UA-cam channel. I mainly show what I recommend and what is safe in my online courses: blissclimbing.com/en/online-courses/ Do you see where this is going? The Micro Traxion is a hell of a good TRS device! Pretty hard to make it fail. (but not impossible: use a backup and buy my courses! :-) ) Note that none of the devices I show here have teeth.
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing I do see! Thank you for your reply! I'll look in to those courses
Respect the content, however I have seen you review the TAZ LOV 3 and say that 'it is possible' when talking about the front plate opening by something pressing then button. This would be a very similar scenario to what you are demonstrating here Trango Cinch or Vergo , possible but unlikely.
Just a heads up. The kong back up user directions state to only use the provided steel carabiner with the device.
This is recommendation to follow right there!! Some King Backups are sold on their own with no connector…
Have a device like the easy move. Ushba, made in russia. Old thing I had for about 20 years. Scary thing, and something your drop these wont show, is that if you grab the rope above the device in a fall, it can prevent it from locking. Let go and it'll lock, but not after you got some nice rope burn. Scary as F. Never use mine without a backup!
Yes! I would love to try a Ushba. They look so similar to the uAscend!!
Hi Yann, some thoughts seeing your great video. None of the gear used is designed for soloing. It could be an idea, since you and your viewers have much solo experience to make a list of must have specs for a device. Like a Camp Goblin is a fine designed device, might me good for solo, it should be used with a steel carabiner, but for rope acces it fails because it either sticks to the rope, (does not follow, require manual lifting) or falls down, (dragging) which creates a fall a factor 2 fall. For testing, man you need a drop tower:)) 25kg on a rocker might hold, 85kg on a rocker sometimes it will stop, jump up, by the much greater rope stretch than semi static, is released again, falls 2 meters grabs again etc.
Hi awsome that you answer so many of the questions you get!
Why didn't you test the rollnlock?
And what do you think of a rollnlock held up with a cest harness above a micro traction, both of them being on the same strand?
A RollNLock would not have failed that way. I know it's hard to find a comprehensive and reliable source of information on this topic. That's why I did my research, bought equipment, experimented and adopted a way to teach rope soloing. I like to refer to my complete online courses. My reasons are the following:
-It is dangerous to have partial information about security systems
-I need an income to continue my mission to teach and innovate
I would love to help you find answers to your questions! I suggest the following solutions:
-An in-person course (blissclimbing-com.translate.goog/fr/formations/?_x_tr_sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en)
-An online course (blissclimbing.com/en/online-courses/)
-A subscription to my Patreon (I answer on the platform) (www.patreon.com/blissclimbing)
I prefer to refer to complete courses. The courses should answer 99% of your questions and show you more things you haven't even thought of AND that are essential to being effective and safe! For any remaining questions, I answer every question asked by my clients and try to post everything on the hidden private Facebook groups reserved for buyers of online courses so that all buyers can benefit. I also very often add content to the courses because there is so much to say and teach on the subject AND I still learn quite often! You can always ask your questions on the “regular” public Facebook rope solo groups, but you won't get all correct answers and probably nothing complete. That's why my suggestion is to take the courses!! Looking forward to seeing you buy a course: you will be happy with your choice!!!
Did not hear what diameter rope you're using for this test. I'm considering using a DMM Buddy as a backup to my LRS set up. I would like to use a 10mm rope, but note that the Buddy specs are for 10.5 to 11.5mm.
The red rope is a Petzl 9.8 more than a few years old. Are you a member of the TRS goup on Facebook to share your setup before you commit to it? Cheers!
@YannCamusBlissClimbing Thanks Yann. I am a member of the FB group. I intend to replicate Gavin Cytlau's method from 2021. Set up includes Gri1 on a Maillon (no chest harness). Then a Buddy for backup with a Micro Traxion clipped into the Buddy for the cache loop. I'll cinch the Buddy and MT with 60cm 8mm dyneema close to the front of the waistband of my harness.
@@clintflicker2645 would be nice to have a second opinion on it yes!!! 👏
I use the Kong backup attached to my bridge and backed up with a Michoacán and I have a CT quick roll with an aider and I SRT with it, I’m 172# and it holds beautifully.
Do you always use a Kong ovalone with the Kong Back Up? What is a Michoacan? 172lbs? Cheers!!
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing no, i use a black diamond rocklock or my kong xl D screwlock, i use it to srt or drt up a tree to hunting height between 15-35’, my bodyweight tension is always pulling downward so it will never experience the scenario you showed but thats good to know. And yes 172 lbs. michoacan is a certain friction hitch, doesnt bite as hard as the prussic and much easier to break and move along the mainline.
@@The_Fit_ness_monster Thanks for the light! Happy the Kong Back Up works for you! I recently pull tested many devices and the Kong Back Up was one of the strongest.. The sheath cut at 7.34kN on a 9.8mm rope - with no core strand cut. Device unharmed. Strong results!
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing awesome to hear, i use it with 11.7mm samson hyperclimb rope. Do you have a video of those pull tests? Im always intrigued by breaking strength videos.
@@The_Fit_ness_monster For now, I will be posting all videos in the Top Rope Solo course available here: blissclimbing.com/en/online-courses/ I will edit a selection of the most interesting and post on UA-cam. Also I would post to UA-cam all break tests on gear that people will donate!
I would like have you spend more time explaining your preferred device and going over the reasons more.
Thanks for your comments!
Thanks for contacting me about your rope solo questions! I know it's hard to find a comprehensive and reliable source of information on this topic. That's why I did my research, bought equipment, experimented and adopted a way to teach rope soloing. I do not answer questions in private. My reasons are the following:
-It is dangerous to have partial information about security systems
-I need an income to continue my mission to teach and innovate
I would love to help you find answers to your questions! I suggest the following solutions:
-An in-person course forms.gle/wZtGTwwRTLwpdSwW6
-An online course (broken website - should be here tomorrow)
-A subscription to my Patreon (I answer on the platform) www.patreon.com/blissclimbing
I prefer to refer to complete courses. The courses should answer 99% of your questions and show you more things you haven't even thought of AND that are essential to being effective and safe! For any remaining questions, I answer every question asked by my clients and try to post everything on the hidden private Facebook groups reserved for buyers of online courses so that all buyers can benefit. I also very often add content to the courses because there is so much to say and teach on the subject AND I still learn quite often! You can always ask your questions on the “regular” public Facebook rope solo groups, but you won't get all correct answers and probably nothing complete. That's why my suggestion is to take the courses!! Looking forward to seeing you buy a course: you will be happy with your choice!!!
Look at ascenders. I use two (rope man 2 and microtraction) and have taken a lot of falls with no issues.
Tout les dispositifs sont compatibles entre 10 et 11 mm. Ferais tu confiance avec 9,6/9,8mm ?
Il y a toujours un doute! Dans tous les systèmes de solo (en tête et sur corde fixe), je recommande un backup. Je connais mieux le Goblin et le LOV et oui: je leur fait confiance à 9.5mm. Toujours avec un backup cependant! Pour le Kong Backup et le DMM Buddy 100, j'aimerais les tester plus...
Would you say the Trango Vergo is safe if you use a quicklink to connect the device? A quicklink is not big enough to twist over the top of the device and jam it open.
I am not sure it is 100% safe but an 8mm quick link is the safest I found with the Vergo. Definitely the best pairing!!!
jeez i'm halfway through and so far i think you need to fall straight! here for the easy move.. dang that part was short. bought it for work on my steep roof, also i have been wanting to go to a short local crag and practice jumaring... I think the easy move on a second rope would be a good idea
I use camp lift and minitrax
Do you mean the micro traxion? The Mini is fine but typically less safe and less enjoyable...
I use the petzl shunt + the black diamond gridlock carabiner, the smaller hole in the carabiner is in the hole in the shunt! I never had any problems. 🤝🏻🇧🇷
Petzl Shunt don't need a bad connector to be unsafe: ua-cam.com/video/Xh5UJNvrLWM/v-deo.html . Also your "I never had any problems." I hear this all the time. It is called "survival bias" and a very interesting article is on wiki here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias . The conclusion is we have to NOT look at what healthy people use but rather look at what injured people use. Please injured people: reach to me so I can share your mistakes (anonymously is an option) and inform rope solo climbers and hopefully save some from injury.
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing Correct, that is called falsification of the device, as you tried in the GOOD video!
We never know anything, if it worked correct many times in practice (verification).
.
good video - in your opinion which is the best bvack up to work with the taz (the love 3 seems excellent)
thank you very much for the info
Anyone can make any device fail when in a test environment....however, in actual climbing, no one logically reaches up and moves the carabiner above the device in an attempt to fall.....not sure what you are trying to prove ....what you are leaving out is the advice of using the correct connection device per fall device while climbing....that would be more important rather than trashing nearly every device out there....the way this came across was that it would be better to stay home, drink a beer and never go to the crag again because whatever you do or what ever device you use is going to get you killed.
I own 30+ potential TRS (top rope solo) devices and only 3 fail in this video. I feel like you overreact! Yesterday I was TRSing on a climb and transitionned to the grigri to rappel. The top TRS device was disabled and the bottom TRS device was removed at that point. When I tried to load the grigri, it repeatedly failed at taking my weight and the combo of top TRS disabled device + grigri at bottom was failing me. It was a dangerous situation right there. I knew exactly the problem I was having because I study these kinds of risks. If you don't use a "tried and true" system and you don't study the risks associated to each device and systems, you risk to put yourself in a dangerous situation unknowingly. If you are not interested, look at other channels! I like learning and teaching the best methods out there to stay safe. A lot of people like learning too!
@YannCamusBlissClimbing wow...talk about being defensive after asking people for their opinion.....wow...if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen. Let me get this straight ...you were top roping with a gri gri and TWO back up devices and all three were failing?.....maybe you should ask, what am I doing wrong....you come across as a very sketchy climber by taking personal risks all in the name of making video's to TEACH others on what not to do. If this offends you, then maybe you should simply stop posting stuff that causes people to react in ways that you don't like. Why not put a disclaimer in front of all your video's that simply says that you only want people who agree with your perspective to respond.....nuff said.
@@williampierce2558 LOL! Sometimes digital can create a lot of misunderstanding. Take it easy!
Hello, may I ask, where did your drop test of the Petzl Zigzag and Akimbo go?
Never touched the zig zag and akimbo in my life… It must be someone else’s video you are thinking about! Thanks for thinking about me!
What would be the best device for lead soloing? I know the taz lov 2 is engineered for rope access/treework, but can it take dynamic falls to?
It does… More testing is on the way. There are a total of about 12 systems I recommend, teach and use all in my online course: blissclimbing.com/en/online-courses/
The taz lov2 or lov3 are very good yes but are you descending with only that device ? The handle release the rope realy fast and esay, I thing its dangerous for the rappel.
If you need another device the the descend why using a taz ?
Good video, thank you. Can you do a review of the DMM Buddy?
Do you use the DMM buddy? How does it work for you? Or else: what do you currently use and what do you do with it exactly? Thanks!
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing I have a DMM Buddy, but I have not used it yet. I plan to use it for solo top rope this week. I can let you know how it goes. I have used the Rock Exotica/Wren Soloist to top rope solo. It was very good. I always used a chest harness with it. I sold it. Some regret about selling it.
@@mountaineer5596 Will you have a backup with the DMM Buddy? Yes the Soloist is a good device. But I prefer the LOV3. With the good setup I believe it is better overall than the Soloist. Especially for TRS only, to rappel, not to say if you go to rescue someone...
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing I have the newer Petzl Rescucender for backup. I intend to place the Rescucender above the DMM Buddy so that it will go taught after the Buddy goes taught. I’m careful enough so that I will also put overhand-on-a-bite knots in the rope below me as I climb the top rope. I can tie these with one hand.
@@mountaineer5596 I never recommend 2 smooth devices. At least 1 should have teeth. Because if the top device fails, it can make the bottom one fail easy! Or do you use 2 ropes? Also I do not like the new Rescucender: never found a reliable way of using it...
I don’t understand why no one uses the asap lock.
I broke a Petrzl ASAP in a very very mild fall on a dynamic rope. No screamer. Today it is recommended only on a semi-static rope and only with a ASAP'sorber screamer (if I remember well). I don't recommend it. But please let me know your experience with it!
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing Oh wow! Well I use an ASAP lock for work all the time accompanied by an ID. But i’ve never fallen on my Asap. So far so good for me. but as long as it doesn’t come off the rope i’m happy if it breaks. but at 300 bucks it should be bulletproof
@@Eddiep80 if you test it I would love to know about the outcome!!
What rope and size are you testing with??
On the Kong back up did it make a difference if you had it switched to omnidirectional or monodirectional
I believe it is possible to make it fail with the same “mechanism”. There will be some friction added but the device can fail in the same way.
Good to know I'm a rope access worker and use a kong backup on occasion for rebelays and such might add a little electrical tape to the biner so it can't travel down the spine and cross load so easily... by the way us rope swingers think you're badass
@@TheOKayStonemaster Thanks for the comment! Who are rope swingers? If you look in the CT Easy Speed manual, they tell you about using an "anti-crossing string". I believe Kong Back-Up users should also use an "anti-crossing string" or some tape / rubber band on the harness side of the connector connecting the Kong Back-Up.
Rope swingers are what other industries call rope access guys lol😁
@@TheOKayStonemaster 😀😀😀 I am often a rope swinger when climbing too LOL
You've probably done it elsewhere, but does the MT fail in the same way? That's my primary, hence my interested question... (I do use a cordelette to keep the device in the up position though)
None of the "toothed" devices will fail that way. The Petzl Micro Traxion will typically fail if the toothed cam is locked in the open position for some reason (user error or weird thing during the climb) AND will fail if an object (a cordelette or bit of fabric) gets caught between the teeth and the rope. It can also be damage in some weird scenarios.
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing good points. yes, i do check manically that the metal thing with the teeth is always on the rope, not hovering over it. Especially since getting the MT off the rope at the anchors sometimes involves having to lift the teeth off the rope.
@@suezix8689 Thanks 😃
Hi,
Thanks for your videos.
I was wondering if the TAZ devices can be used for belaying a partner. I don't see why it wouldn't work but I cannot find a single video of this and I don't think it is indeed to be use for that.
Have you tried it? Is it ok?
The LOV2 and LOV3 are certified for EN 15151-1 use. Like a grigri. Assisted belay device. So yes it is ok! Now I don't remember trying it to belay a partner for 3 reasons: 1- I rarely climb with a partner 2- The LOV is 370g vs Grigri at 175g so the LOV is not my goto 3- I have a bad memory for this... But not that if I was going on a rescue or any hardcore situation I would reach for my LOV right away! Makes sense?
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing thanks for the detailed and fast answer.
I would love to see a test about it, if it is similar to a Grigri I don't really see a big issue with the weight (for sport climbing i mean). I way more curious about how smooth and safe is it when belaying.
I am definitely thinking about buying a TAZ and I would find it a great + if it can be a smooth assisted belay on top of being (one of) the best for TRS.
When/if I cross the bridge of TRS i will probably take your course in order to have the most knowledge. Thank again work all your work.
Take care
@@StephaneDubois-ie3tb Thanks!! I would love to know if people get to belay with the LOV. If people have dropped climbers with a grigri, I would be worried that more people drop climbers with the LOV because the rope path is straight in the LOV. So if you maintain it in open position, I guess the rope will slip through VERY easily!! But as soon as you grab the dead side of the rope, the LOV will rotate and grab I have no doubt! Thanks for your kindness 🙂
Hi Yann - what is the failure mode if it catches between your legs if the device has no external handle (e.g. DMM Buddy 100). It looks like there would be nothing to 'squeeze' or 'catch'. Is it because you can turn it upside down and lock it?
With the Camp Goblin for example, the device has to be free of "floating" upward while you are falling so it catches reliably. If the device is between your squeezed legs, you can "drag" the device along the rope and make it slide "forever". I have never seen a failure that way but with reinforced pants I am willing to live-test it and show it on UA-cam!! Any remaining question?
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing Ah I see - it's a geometry thing - if it holds it's "draging up" position, it doesn't bind at all. Hopefully there will be enough drag in the down direction to escape from legs... Interesting one though! Make the tether short enough so it can't get between legs?
@@largeformatlandscape "Make the tether short enough" Exactly my thinking! Short and compatible. Very very short (Petzl Ring Open + 8mm maillon can be a great option with Camp Goblin)
What about the nanotraxion?
You wonder if it can fail or not? It can fail… Can you think a way how? (Always use a backup!! Never trust your life to a single tool)
how can you recommend a toothed device to catch falls?
It destroys the rope.
You mean TR falls or Lead falls?
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing any falls. I dont even like to use a jumar
And thats why you use a back up..
So you're using a device out of spec with a carabiner not suitable for belaying and you're wondering why the setup fails?
Can you put me in context of what you report? What device? What connector? Thanks!
So go for a prusik. Stop this f... equipment madness. You inspire people to consume even more.
I don’t recommend prusiks for TRS and LRS by the way. Prusiks are good for tree work, makeshift ascenders for self-rescue, third hand in a rappel. People like to buy gear. But really all the pointers you need for TRS and LRS efficiently while managing the risks are in my online courses. Chances are you already own what you need to TRS or LRS in a reasonable way!! blissclimbing.com/en/online-courses/ Do you use prusiks for TRS climbing?
🗽 Use a Micro Traxion from Petzl... but it is not for falling, it's for holding you in the position. Falling is always a problem if the stopping is not dynamically !!! ☝
.
Ok!
Camp Lift above a microtrax is the way to go
See here for my take on the Lift: ua-cam.com/video/PsCF8kw5UQI/v-deo.html ... There IS a better device! (at least one 😉 )
😎👍🔥💯
Naciągane....
By the way: only one Climbing Technology Easy Move left where I got it: coastropes.ca/products/climbing-technology-easy-move ...
ALSO: about the Kong Back-Up: I am 99% sure it can fail with this recommended connector: www.kong.it/en/product/ovalone-carbon-screw-sleeve/ I don't see why there would be a difference! Would someone who owns it be able to make it fail for me and inform me? Thanks!!!
The recommended carabiner is not one with a straight non-gate side. That will change how likely it is to be stable in the twisted configuration. Besides, it is not designed to be used in a way that directly connects it to a climbing-style harness (where cross-loading is more likely). They attempt to make that clear in the manual.
@@DrewNorthup for what device?
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing The only one for which you referenced a recommended carabiner: the Kong one.
So which device does he think is better ?
So between the 7 devices presented here, my favorite device is hands down the LOV. I use it mainly for rope access, rescues and top rope solo (TRS). Makes sense?
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing I 'll come home , translate what you wrote and answer you 😊😊😊