Compost Still Not Fertile Enough
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- Опубліковано 21 лип 2024
- We repeated an experiment of growing potato plants in municipal compost for the second year. I was expecting that additional time would have helped the compost to mature a lot more so that it would be able to release a better supply of nitrogen for the growing plants. But it seems without a lot of extra added nitrogen, many of the plants were not able to get enough nitrogen to grow well.
0:00 Repeating an experiment
1:16 Purpose
2:37 Setup for second year
3:23 More amendments
4:51 Expanding experiment
5:33 Planting
6:41 Still deficiencies
7:39 Some better than others
8:58 New batch of compost
9:41 More nitrogen needed
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Being a scientist myself, I appreciate all the work going into this project. I am running little experiments in my garden every year, testing out different amendments, companion planting, spacing, etc. I keep pretty detailed journals as well documenting weather and other variables that I can't control as well as planting locations, amendments, yields. Can't always even out all of the variables, but I do get good insight every year to various aspects of my gardening that I can then use to boost fertility, growth, harvest and just plain enjoyment the next year. I have noticed that with the bigger demand, the bagged soil/compost is getting much less broken down and woody and needs to be amended until it has time to be absorbed into my tank beds or I add it to my regular compost piles as they are being constructed.
I noticed if I buy compost in the winter/off-season it's often of much higher quality.
Its been a while since you've posted. Busy time of year, keep up the great work.
Yes, it has been a while, sorry for that. But busy time of the year, as you mention, and I was also away from the gardens a couple of times, so felt I needed to lighten the workload for a while. Good to be back!
My experience with Municipal compost is that because its produced by high temperature composting processes, the level of soil biology is really very small. I usually buy mine in around september, innoculate the pile with my own cold processed compost and worm eggs, i normally put blood fish and bone into the pile, as otherwise you get Nitrogen tie up. By the time i use it the following spring, its around a third less vole, stone cold in the centre and FULL of worms and insect life, and much more usable.
when its black its usually been cooked/composted way too hot, i thought it was a good sign to see a dark black colour but ive learned otherwise.
I am so thankful for this video. As an urban gardener that buys bags of compost in my no dig garden, this video has verified my findings too that store bought compost is not as fertile as homemade compost. I have to also add chicken manure pellets and fish blood bone at least once a year to top the soil up
My theory is that compot usually has no nutrients enough all time. Compost is for feeding the biology but it is hard to feed the plants just by itself. A good mix in a potting soil adding red earthworms and earth worm poop works very good, also add some biochar and egg schells and ashes. For drainage no need of perlite or vermiculite if there are enogh earthworms. All that mix have things that release faster than other... but my potting soil mixes last for the whole season (about 6 months) after that I mix it with 2/3 of the same that used at the beginning, when it is time to repot or start again. Of course if I am growing leafy greens I add , a little bit of chicken or seagulls composted poop by the second month, and if it is fruit as tomatoes, I add compost of horse manure or mushrooms compost, more ashes and I do not have any problem, get a lot of havests.
What people need to do is avoid the consumer composts you get at the garden centre and buy professional grade compost like Levington f2 compost.
It’s a good experiment, thanks for sharing. But I think the problem is the bags. What we expect from compost is to nourish the soil life, not the plants. Bags can’t always provide the complexity that is needed for different types of microorganism activity.
I wish our town still offered municipal compost. They used to make it out of grass clippings and leaves collected in the fall, and put out a huge pile for the taking every year. However, last year they stopped. They claim it was because they dredged out the pond and mixed it with the compost, so it hadn't yet decomposed and couldn't pass inspection. I suspect it's because they decided to sell it for profit instead of giving it to residents, as I noticed several construction companies driving off with truckloads of it last year. Sure enough, this year there is no municipal compost, even though it's July now, and there are mountains of it visible behind the fence. So much for my plans for a no till garden.
I fall asleep listening to you video playlist with the hopes of “Skilling Up”. I am using a lot of what I learn on the permaculture and restorative homestead I hope to have fully up and running soon. 😊
Haha, hope you don't fall asleep from boredom! And hope you have great fun on your homestead!
@@REDGardens it’s definitely not boredom! I’ve listened to the playlist countless times. I pick up on a little bit more each time. It’s a lot or information to digest. I love that type of format. Well, that and Neil DeGrasse Tyson the astrophysicist’s formats.
Here's an idea: Try growing peas, beans or other crops that produce their own nitrogen.
Maybe those could serve as a transitional plant for the compost. So the first year or two you only grow legumes in a new batch of compost. This might help add nitrogen to the compost, and help it to break down faster. And then you can use the compost for growing other crops.
Thanks for your work. I love it when I get the notification that you released a new video.
This is a bit of a misconception aboute legumes. Yes, plants like peas, alfalfa and beans do fix nitrogen with the help of rhizobia. However, this is only for the plant those are attached to.
The nitrogen they produce will not just "appear" in the soil whiule the plant grows, produces fruit or even after harvest. In order for the nitrogen to be fully released, the whole plant needs to remain where it was and decompose fully. That is the only way how the nitrogen that was fixed by the bacteria is released into the soil in form of humus.
@@stubbiAnd you're assuming the leguminous plants are being removed... Why?
Yes, the crop is removed and yes, developing that crop does consume a sizeable margin of the Nitrogen. But a large portion remains in the structure of the plant- a plant which just spent a whole season in that soil exuding sugar to promote soil biota
@@priestesslucy3299 Because often the plant waste ends up on the compost which is distributed to other plots. If you really want to get the best of it the plant waste needs to stay on the same plot.
Also yes of course, the roots with the rhizobia stay and most of the rhizobia survive for the next plant.
However: My main point was that simply growing a legume produces nitrogen. Which is only true in parts when you dont fully commit to a circular economy for your garden plots.
@@stubbi Oh, fair. So many people pull their plants rather than leave the roots behind.
That's too much work for me 🤣
@@priestesslucy3299 Exactly! What my grandparents used to do is that they mulched with a lawn mower any plant in their spot. Everything that grew must remain they always said.
My potato plants in the garden are as tall as a 4 ft fence and have just started to flower. I hope the potatoes are maturing for a good harvest at the end of the season. I will get back to your channel with my results. I live in northern Wisconsin, and these amendments may be helpful.
If they are that tall, I imagine they will produce a fair amount.
I really enjoy watching your experiments and research into your trials. Very educational and I appreciate your videos.
I have two suggestions:
1 - bury bags into the ground. The advantage is to keep the temperature stable. I noticed that if you plant vegetables in a pot, on a hot summer day, I have to water them twice or more. If the pot is in black color, the soil temperature changes a lot, which I believe is not good for plants. I see Chinese farmers use a growing bag, which has two colors: outside is white, and inside is black. But burying it into the ground is the best way to keep the temperature stable.
2 - I use the Bokashi method to ferment Kitchen wastes. This method does not create any heat during the fermentation process, it is anaerobic process, no turn needed. Keep energy inside to the maximum.
In summer, it takes about 1-2 week to mature, then bury into ground about 1 foot deep. After one month you can grow potatoes, zuccinies, pumpkings, etc. Since all of the nitrogen is kept, the color of the leaves are dark green.
DIY Bokashi fermentation bucket: ua-cam.com/video/JheiuLbIdqU/v-deo.html
If maybe planting a bean in each bag, allowing it to grow before flowering, or when it starts making nodules on the roots where it stores the nitrogen, then cut the top off. I have been struggling for years with garlic (South Africa) very hot and for some reason we only get hardneck varieties. By accident, last year, I presumed a failed crop after it started to grow(only some), Because it was store bought, I deemed it a loss. I planted peas in that bed and never removed the cloves, leaving it for the worms. It stood for 6 months, march to September (Autumn and winter). When I removed the peas, I discovered some garlic in between, and it was thriving. I mulched it and left it. However, had to remove it before it made scapes, as the cloves started sprouting or something. Never saw that before. It was huge! I managed to save some for seed, and I have planted them 14 February. This time I experimented with bush beans. Planted them at the same time as the garlic. Looking at the stems, I am extremely happy. Also, if possible, try replacing your browns in your compost heap with a bag of municipal compost. Sure, this will take time and you would have to make more heaps, but It would add more nitrogen and biological life. I don't think there is a quick fix to get the same results as good manure/compost from something that is inferior. However, I love these experiments, I really learned a lot from you. I believe if anyone can beat this conundrum, it is you. Look at the genius that is : no rules compost
Respect from Africa 🇿🇦
That would be interesting to try. I wonder how much nitrogen one bean plant can actually fix? Mixing this stuff into the other compost, to bulk it up, is a good option I think. Glad you are getting a lot out of the videos!
I cannot find the link now but there was a paper I read that showed that alfalfa was the best legume to grow for fixing nitrogen (as long as you cut off any flowers and, obviously, leave the roots in the soil when you cut it down).
@@REDGardens you created a great community here. I sometimes want to experiment, but statistics is not my thing. You are meticulous and data driven. I can't wait for the potato harvest. (P.s, dilute urine is my go to fertilizer, don't tell my wife😂)
@@davegaskell7680 never tried it. Worth looking into it. Thank you, friend👍
This is so valuable. I really appreciate your research. Thank you.
Thank you so much for sharing your experiments. All your videos are meticolous and enlightening.
Thank you for all your valuable information.
Wow. Brilliant video and fascinating stuff. Thank you for doing this, I’m learning so much
I said it last time and I’ll say it again this time. I love this experiment and I’m really glad you do it!
Lol I have those days .. distracted. I have a potato leaf tomato growing in my actual bag I thought was a potato. 3 months later I'm like hey!! That is not right.
Simply love to listen to this down to earth insight. Thank you.
🙂
It's exciting to see the experiment continue! I live in an area with hot, dry summers and my container potatoes never do as well as my in ground ones. I use several organic amendments in every pot and bed but the biggest improvement I've made in container potatoes is striking the right balance between compost and clay, somewhere around one fifth to one third clay, depending on sand content. Clay is abundant where I live and find it for free, whereas compost is fairly expensive and of various qualities, so it's nice to be able to save money and improve my growing medium at the same time. One obvious benefit is that clay holds onto water longer in my hot and arid garden. Also, I recall Steve Solomon writing that when organic material decomposes in the presence of clay it creates a compost with anion exchange capacity in addition to cation exchange capacity, so this would help hold on to the valuable ammendments longer in the soil.
Thanks for the info. Your videos feel concise and direct, I like that. I hope you are well.
Thanks. Glad you like them. All is good, especially now that I am back making videos after a busy spring!
I've had similar struggles in my own garden. I've had to result to adding things like coffee grounds and blood meal to mine to get the desired results.
Red I love these videos. I have learned so much
🙂
I haven't run such extension trials as yours (btw, thank you for the update) but I've had best luck mixing this nearly inert sort of material roughly at 50/50 with my mostly finished, but active, compost - almost thinking of it as a weak carbon/organic to mix into over-rich homemade stuff. Look forward to seeing where you go with all this,
That sounds like a really good option, especially for the piles that are too rich in Nitrogen.
Great experiments and much appreciated! This year I have continued with growing my potatoes and tomatoes in homemade compost. This includes a fair amount of 'biochar', about 10%- ish. I did find out that addind the biochar at the start of composting, it tends to slow the decomposition down quite a bit. Once established as a soil I add calcium, woodash and vit P. It all grows well and this year the potatoes are absolute winners :)
Brilliant video as always - I have learnt a lot from you.
Inspired by you, we also grow in bags this year. 100% in homemade compost and our plants are big, lush and healthy. I hope that the foliage mirrors the potatos underneath. Thanks for great content.
Awesome! Hope the yield is great!
A very helpful video Bruce , thanks.
As always, I’ll watch it at least twice.
Not sure if you can name your liquid feed amendments but that would be useful..
It’s a lot of work to amend such a big volume of compost to make it productive.
Thanks! I buy the liquid feed from Fruit Hill Farm www.fruithillfarm.com/organic-soil-plant-fertilisers/liquid-fertilizers/organic-plant-food-opf-npk.html - expensive enough stuff, but useful in this kind of context.
I think with compost like this, throwing in a lot of some cheap form of nitrogen will make a huge difference.
I think (but I may be way off track) that the most important thing compost gives is the ability to form more humus in the soil, and the humus is the key to holding water in the soil and is the medium for an important part of the electrolyte exchange involved in plant nutrition.
I once bought compost and never again. It had hydraulic oil in as it was pine bark comp from the local paper mill. That set me back years.
Respect from Africa 🇿🇦
Woah, that is horrible. I am glad that at least this stuff is fairly clean and consistent.
Oh no. Where in South Africa are you? Im in Gauteng, Pretoria. I have a local woodworker where I get woodshavings for free. I use it for my pathways and for browns in my compost heap. I would hate for something like that to happen to me. Was it equipment contamination? P.s, I love your user name. No dig all the way!
@@gertwolmarans6974 I am in White River Mpumalanga, we have lots of wood products like chips and shavings available here, but nun are free 😄. I raise meat birds as well, their first 3 weeks are on a 3 inch bed of pine saving and this is good for my compost bins.
Thanks for this. I was under the impression that my compost would be enough to give a good yield. It wasn't. As your experiment shows.
lawn clippings on top of grow bags, nitrogen plus mulch ✌️😎
Or use clover or comfrey between grows as a chop and drop crop
Thanks
Would the compost you make at the garden be the competition that one of these bags should need to beat? I guess that does not solve the scaling issue with not having enough for the whole garden project. I would be interested in it maybe just as a reverence point / baseline. Thanks for the videos.
That would be interesting, and I am comparing similar things in the other large potato grow bag trial that is going beside this one. Last year our my own compost produced much better than this stuff. With this experiment, I am really trying to explore how to make the most of this resource, and it seems just adding a lot of nitrogen in some convenient form is the best option, but I want to wait until I harvest this year's potatoes.
With compost the idea is to use it only to add organic matter to the soil. Not as a system to rely on as a complete fertiliser. I make compost with horse and chicken manures and it seems to do alot better but I always add either blood and bone or chicken manure pellets to the bed even with the compost added
I've had a lot of success in my flower beds (I know it's different to edible crops) with bins full of compost material sitting next to the flower bushes in the bed and letting it rot down directly next to the plants. I think a lot of the success there is that the leachate from the decomposition goes straight into the soil instead of being left behind and there's been no issues there with nitrogen burn. Since I close off my bins, there's no issues with weeds coming out of the bin.
Curious about the bio amended bag! Would be interesting to check out each compost sample under a microscope at the end!
Well thought through! I have been pursuing similar on smaller scale. Similar issues with other plants. I always start by growing beans. Seeds are soaked a few days in water and planted after "staining" with a little soil that earlier had beans with nodules. Goal is to ensure there is lots of rhizobia from the start. I try to get the beans planted as early as possible, effectively a cover crop. I later plant my intended plants. In some cases, I don't get many nodules and bean plants get chlorosis, so I get the idea rhizobia can die. If that happens, I plant more beans. The bean growth (green leaves, chlorosis, etc) has been good early indicator.
I have been waiting for your new video for soooo long. I look forward to them.
Green waste compost, i have been adding 20kg bags of chicken manure to it in autumn and covering it with tarp. Wetting it until soaking. Then letting it sit.
Seems the nitrogen to carbon ratio has some what evened out. Compost seemed far more fertile come spring. It heated up to 28-30 degrees for some weeks. I then turned after 3 months. Only one turn.
Potatoes grew significantly better with only one feed of comfrey from march to june. Yield was excellent.
Thanks for video
I compost as well but I look at compost as a soil amendment that makes the soil more loose, easier for root penetration etc. but I used 9-9-9 for nutrient plus bone meal.
Sounds like a good option.
@@REDGardens Its predictable.
super interesting
Glad to see that you are back and ok....
Thanks, and sorry for the absence. I am good, or as good as I can be with the state of the world. I had a really busy spring and was away from the gardens a few times, so decided to stop the videos for a bit to lighten the workload so that I didn't burn out.
@@REDGardens I do enjoy your channel. Thank you
As you noted near the end, since you grew potatoes in the compost last year, you extracted a lot of nutrients from the compost last year. Even after the compost broke down another year, it is still missing those nutrients from the year before. If you grow year after year in the same compost you will have to keep amending year after year to make up for the stuff extracted the year before. I think you were on the right track adding a bunch of urine to the newly brought in compost. I'd bring in a load of compost at the end of the seaon, pour a lot of urine on it, cover it with a tarp, and let it mature over the winter, and I think you'll have a rich compost ready for the spring.
I believe he said that he used compost from the same batch - I don't think he repurposed the actual compost he used for last year's potatoes.
@@michaelpowlesland2224 Pretty sure he said he repurposed the stuff that was already in the bags.
Rewatch at 57 seconds in.
@@michaelpowlesland2224 Rewatch 2:00 to 2:17, and 2:56 to 3:04. He is clearly reusing the compost from last years bags.
@@ronk4073 I think you might be right but it doesn't make sense for the reason you gave initially. Hopefully he'll be along in a bit.
The nitrogen is physically lost from the compost. Firstly as volatised amonia. Then as the compost ages as nitrogen gas as denitrifiers utilise the carbon. You have to add it back in. As the experiment showed.
I wanted to let you know that I also experimented with potatoes in containers this year. As most gardeners, I never have enough mature home made compost. So I decided to fill up the containers mainly with hardly composted or even fresh kitchen scraps and let the composting happen while the potatoes grew. This method seems to work without adding fertilizers. In fact, I inadvertently created worm bins in my grow containers, as I discovered during harvest. It appears that the decay frees up enough nutrients for the potatoes to grow nicely.
I should mention that the compost in the bin reduced by more than half in volume during the growing time of the potatoes. This can lead to a few potatoes turning green. If I wansn't so lazy, I could add more compost on top to prevent that. But I simply use the green potatoes as seed potatoes the next year.
Thank you for sharing your valuable research, I bought 6 bags of 50L potting compost from a large DIY chain here in England and found a partially digested sock, directly contravening claims of its composition being 100% plant based and tested. Given the rarity of biodegradable clothing and the synthetic polluting nature of modern dyes this can only affect present and future nutrient availability, and in the 4 months since planting I have had poor results. Obtaining "better quality" compost is obviously not price or source related.
Thanks for the video, very interesting. It would be interesting to see a comparison with your own home made compost as well. I think that slow/homemade compost (stuff just rotting/composting naturally) would be much more rich in nutrients compared to extra fast hot composting. Maybe you can run some type of trial next time.
That comparison is part of the other bigger trial that I am doing beside this one, comparing the two composts and a lot of other options.
If you could get your hands on some red clay rich soil and dry it out then crumble and mix it in your compost bags it should greatly help you with fertility
That would be interesting to try.
@REDGardens clay is rich in nutrients but it needs biodiversity to unlock it. I started with hard red clay soil and it's been a chore softening it up but it grows everything very well
Depending on your growing zone, and if you get all 4 seasons, and if you're not in the "no-till" group, IMO it is hard to beat skipping compost all together and put leaves, manure, or a combination on your garden in the fall and tilling it in. The soil does an excellent job of adding the right moisture and ingredients to grow beautiful vegetables the following year, with NO fertilizer needed. With the concerns of persistent herbicides, leaves seem to be your safest bet. I apply them so heavy each fall that the zero turn can almost get high centered as I chop them down to powder prior to tilling them in. Through the winter, you need to rototill the garden several times to help them break down, or you will have a mess in the spring. Also, if you direct seed, something like radishes early in the spring, that area would be better to apply less leaves or just manure you know is safe to use. When you get leaves from a recycling center, you will get rocks, sticks, socks, lots of water bottles, or anything else people rake up. But, it's free and gives you something to do after the frost has taken your garden. Great video, as always. I appreciate your hard work!
Why do you need to till it several times? Decomposing only works by letting bacteria and worms do their job.The more often you till the more you disturb the soil critters and the slower your decomposing progresses. A good friend of mine who is a farmer just switched to No-Till a couple of years ago. Before he would till his fields 2x a year and still have straw of the previous year on his fields. Now, it doesnt even take half a year and its fully gone already - all eaten by worms and other creatures turning bio material into valuable humus.
Tilling could be increasing the bacterial to fungal ratio, can be beneficial for annuals depending on soil type!
That’s why tilling soil seemed so essential when we cut down forest for farm land! We tend to over do it now though 😂
@stubbi you're absolutely right, but only the leaves in the soil break down. Anything brown on top of the dirt is the same as the outer layer of a compost pile. It needs to be turned in to break down, or it will lay there all winter.
I sift my compost to remove wood parts. I compost leaves, manure and some wood. I have considered making an automatic sifter, its alot of work to sift it manually.
The wood parts i either use as a mulch, or goes into to bottom of new rasied beds. Or into the beginning of the compost-system.
I realised that i probably need to add more nitrogen during the growing season, and if i copied your new automatic watering system i would probably increase my yield.
Thanks for another good video!
I just bought a vibrating motor to make an automatic sifter!
Hey Bruce, a while ago you talked about having hydrophobe compost, and I just ran into the same issue. I had a whole load of compost that just didnt absorb water, but would rather let it drain. I had take all the compost I bought (which was a bag of 20L) and mix that into several huge container. Then I had to quite literally waterlog it and mix it like a small child would play with mud. It took about 2-3 days of being fully submerged and mixed for the compost to be usable again. Another reason for me to not buy compost anymore.
If you mix a bit of shampoo or dish soap in several gallons of water and sprinkle it onto the hydrophobic compost or soil, it breaks up the hydrophobic parts and then you can water as usual.
Commercial compost is often made with high proportion of wood chips (for aeration), I tend to agree with you that this locks up the N with a long slow job of breaking it down. I haven't measured, but assume it could be 2 to 3 years.
Now some compost geek questions: Does all of your purchased compost have a C:N analysis? Is it 20 or less? When you did your amendments to your spud bags did you add the same amount of total N to each? Have you ever conducted a NO3 test for plant available N?
thank you for doing these experiments. Looks like adding fertilizer is still a must.
Don't assume that the municipal compost just isnt old enough yet. I've seen nutrient reports from some composts, even from an organic farm, that show that the compost is just too low in nitrogen.
Last years leaves and this years grass clippings is the very best mix for my DIY compost. Adding more fresh grass clippings to semifinished compost that is rotovated when turning restarts the hot composting and adds more nitrogen. I try to keep woody materials out and use the woody stuff for bonfire kindling. I quench the bonfires with water to obtain charcoal and ash that is added to my compost. I also obtain free compost from my municipality as well that is low quality but I fine screen it when getting it from their pile to eliminate much of the wood, rocks and trash that it contains. In my experience the fine screened stuff is much more fertile. I suspect the undecomposed wood that I'm removing locks up much of the nitrogen in that given volume. A fair and informative test would be to fine screen a volume and compare grow results with an unscreened volume. If the compost you are getting is clean and stone free, the screened out wood will make a good surface mulch. Both 'Back to Eden' (surface arborist wood chip mulch) and Hügelkultur ( buried wood) have the wood distinctly separate from the growing media/soil. My conclusion is that the undecomposed wood incorporated in the growing media/soil is the problem and the remediation for municipal compost fertility needs to be mechanical. I'm going to wait for your test to call it fact though.😀
Here are my notes for my potatoes this season. The pots I grew in last year and this year have only been averaging about 1.5 lbs per pot. I’m not sure the pots are as good as in ground growing. The yields seem lower for my potted potatoes.
1. Pots seem to dry out too fast
2. Nutrients are not getting to the potatoes if they dry out
3. In ground potatoes hold more moisture
4. You can add way more compost per potato for in ground potatoes
Ruth stout growing potatoes works best for me.
This makes me feel less disappointed with my own potato growing failures.
This is awesome info. We've been having some trouble with growth in our compost as well and we've been slowly playing around with amendments to try and correct it. Experiments like this help provide us with some direction to look in. Any chance you can provide the numbers on how much nitrogen you had to add to see the effects?
We found that another major factor in getting good growth from our young composite was making sure that it was well condensed otherwise our plantings seemed to have rooting issues. We also ran an experiment with the same varieties of lettuce in a bed from last year's compost and one of fresh compost this year and the new compost actually performed better. It's possible the difference in the compost from year to year was just that big or perhaps the plants really liked the temporary overhead irrigation we set up, compared to the drip on our older beds.
Have you considered building a worm farm and letting the worms break down the compost? It would be interesting to see if that improves the quality.
I have tried growing worms. Not so easy in my case. They kept dying within a couple of days. Puzzling, given they are all over our planet. I sense compost can be toxic.
I wonder if you could sift out the un-decomposed woody material, and grow a batch of potatoes in the cleaner sifted compost. Use the wood as mulch, or add to your own compost bin.
Have you ever done a soil analysis on the "municipal compost"? If you have, what was the C/N ratio? Did you do another test after the first year of decomposition?
This year I have added a lot of brewers yeast to both the compost piles and directly to the soil. WOW! What a huge difference! The compost has decomposed incredibly fast and the rows that I added yeast to have been very vigorous with the exception of the peppers, which I think is due to the pH being too low for them. Need to add CaCO4 with the yeast to buffer out the pH I think.
Great follow-up to last years experiment, will there be a 3rd?
I haven't done a analysis, but the analysis from the company that produces it indicates it is 'less than 20:1 carbon:nitrogen'.
Brewer's yeast is great stuff. I have used it a bit, but want to explore more.
I think there will be a third year ... easier to keep going than to empty all those grow bags!
@@REDGardens 20:1? With all that visible wood in it? I'm skeptical to say the least.
@@charlespalmer3595 Why? There is barely any N in woodchip, that's why the plants are failing.
@@lksf9820 Yes, that is what I am saying, I think the company is lying, it is more like greater than 60:1
Have tried many of the same experiments with very similar results to yourself. Getting good results from drenching with urine prior to planting but most importantly mulching. Have found that compost loses water very easily and looking after the biology requires mulch, same in the garden. Using mulch over compost looks after the compost and enables the biology to take the carbon into the soil
Which is funny to me, because that is one of the things this municipal, woody compost is really good at ... mulching.
That is, it itself is the mulch for the living soil below.
Drip-feeds carbon into the soil and otherwise confers what benefits you expect from a good mulch.
@@aenorist2431 Yes, that is an interesting point about his type of compsot being a useful mulch. I find once the top layer dries, the stuff underneath stays moist. But if I did add straw, leaves, or grass clippings to the surface of the compost, that would probably help.
I once had difficulty with compost from a nursery supply co. nothing grew for a year i have come across info. that some compost have tested positive for traces of herbicide.
I would look into the korean natural farming space to try to boost microbiology. JADAM has the cheapest and easiest method to boost soil biology- and if you're too squeamish to use during the season even just doing the bed prep by applying the microbial solution to begin the season will make a huge difference in nutrient cycling.
From my personal experience growing in black containers causes the roots to heat up more when the sun shines directly onto the walls of the container. I use 90 Liter mortar bins, there is some 20cm distance from the wall to the center root ball but on a hot day the heat just goes deep and i don't know how that affects growth but my pot plants were always smaller or had issues.
I am curious how the potatoes would do if planted in the big bag (1000 liter) instead of in the small black bags!
That would be an issue, and we did have a few hot days, but not too bad in our maritime climate. I don't think these bags are necessarily the best for growing in, but a great option for this kind of comparison trials.
Municipal compost typically has Roundup in it from people's lawns....
Hi. Thank you for sharing this video with us. I think the key factor for making nutrients in the soil available to be absorbed by the plants is the PH of the soil. I sounder if you checked soil PH after all these different amendments? Some times the nutrients may be available in the soil, but the PH is either high or low which will lock up them in the soil.
It would be interesting to see how the pH changed.
I’ve had similar issues. I’m fortunate enough to be able to buy as much compost as I need so I filled many beds with 6-10 inches of compost doing no-dig. I’ve had lackluster results. I fed some beds with bat guano and plants took off. I really think the soluble nitrogen helps a lot.
Compost is high in organic matter, but can still be very unbalanced in nitrogen.
It is always going to be low in minerals and trace minerals.
Plants need to have their roots in good mineral rich soil.
6 to 10 inches of compost is an overly deep layer of something which is often lacking in many nutrients.
@@rubygray7749 For sure, I understand that plants need more than just OM. I still believe that there’s going to be a way we can do no-dig and have success. I like the idea of doing no-dig in marginal areas where a garden wouldn’t even be thought of growing there. Some people have success with 6-12 inches of compost. I’ve seen it.
I don’t know. I fertilized my potatoes when I planted, and I covered them with unfinished compost. Hardly even compost, more like kitchen scraps and half broken down leaves, stuff very recognizable as what it was before mixed into “compost.” And my potatoes rocked this year. I kept them very well watered and added liquid fertilizer if the leaves started getting paler. We also had a true spring instead straight from winter to hot summer weather, which I know helped. I felt like the “alive”
plant matter stuff I covered them with made the potatoes happy.
I have also found that the composted manure that you get from the store is no match the manure you get from the cattle farm. I wonder if the large scale composting gets too hot and pasteurises the product.
More variety review/comparison videos!
i have one bed of potatoes with same batch of compost... planted all the same time... huge differences from left to right...
There must be something different with the soil underneath, or some other factor.
potatoes would grow better with contact to the earth, so they get its needs from there. this compost could be used as mulch cover which can earth up during season.
Yes, probably. I don't think this is the best way to grow potatoes, but the potato plants have been really useful to test the different amendment options.
There are three things I think you could toy with here that may be helpful.
Some of those plants looked a bit mildewy. Something to spray to help with that might be beneficial.
I think a lot of yellowing can be caused by iron deficiency. A tiny amount of (say less than 5% by water volume) of some chelated iron could be very helpful. Might as well put 5% pot(ato) nitrate in there as well. Foliar spraying is an art form in itself. We spray with a very fine mist, to the point of dripping from the leaves, but very dilute. Too much is bad because it is very direct and can burn easily. Nothing that is sulphates. Uptake is somewhat temperature dependent to.
Lastly, do you have enough time in your season to grow bush beans before the potatoes are planted? Even if it is at the end of last season and you don't get a harvest? Plant them late and let the frost kill them. Plucky little nitrogen fixers they are.
Interesting stuff as usual. Hopefully you have time for more content coming up. We miss you when you're not around.
Hey, with these methods of testing, maybe you could get into making of Terra Preta. I guess this is the holy grail of all growers, a soil that keeps renewing itself each year by having special composition favorable to soil renewal. I have a few ideas, for example how to make activated carbon and how to supercharge it with nutrients so that its gradual decomposition actually replaces nutrients spent in soil. So just let me know what you think or just heart this comment if you have read it and are thinking of it. There are many science papers on Terra Preta, perhaps they're also worth a read.
this is exactly my experience with store-bought compost, that it's great for increasing organic matter to my hard clay soil and it's great for mulch but it adds next to zero nutrients to the soil. Also that using organic pelleted or granule fertilizer isn't available for use by the plants for a long time so that I need to also use liquid or water-soluble fertilizers especially early in the season. Now I add granules of organic fertilizer (10-10-10) and then use a liquid fertilizer a couple times a month, and finally have good growth.
I thought I was doing well by getting aged composted horse bedding/manure from a local horse farmer. I grew some amazing plants, but had a plethora of weeds I had never seen on my plot before! Wow, what a chore!
Since there looked to be a lot of woody material in your compost, would it help if you added green manures to the compost to energize further decomposition activity for later use?
Thanks for the video!
The compost I buy in looks identical to yours, and I learned the same less the first year I used it. I had to do an emergency supplementation with urea to save the plants I had in the ground. These days I've switched to the pelleted chicken manure. Most of my beds are 4'x24' and I use about 20 pounds per bed at the start of they year and the results have been fantastic. They have all been treated previously with rock dust, lime and Azomite for minerals. Fortunately I get it a lot cheaper than you I think, pay about $8 per 40 pound bag, so it's only $4 per bed for fertilizer, very inexpensive. Our weather is much like yours, tons of winter rain, and all the nitrogen gets washed out of the soil every winter. This winter I bought a bunch of 1 mil plastic very cheap and I'm going to cover all my beds to try to save some of my nitrogen, we'll see how it works.
I think urea is possibly the easiest and cheapest option for 'fixing' to this type of compost, but a broader amendment like you are doing is probably better. You are right, the chicken manure pellets are quite a bit more expensive over here, so not so useful as an amendment in this context, especially as a lot of the nitrogen will simply be absorbed in the compost.
I’m surprised you use this compost at all. Years ago it was discovered in England it had strange extras and wasn’t much good at all. I grow good
potatoes in bags ( charlotte are Ist. Early) They’ve been in same compost as last year , then after leeks with a bit of extra topsoil to cover top spuds. I use potato fertiliser and 4 spuds this year as 5 last year was too many, to a bag. In your damper climate do you think folar feed worth the risk of blight?
Even in East Yorks I keep the leaves as dry as poss.
I mix organic horse manure as a soil improver and grow field beans and peas to start rotation on poor stony soil. Micro fungi also help in the main soil especially with legumes and perennials etc.
Regards and best wishes
Could you also try adding effective microorganisms?
Really interesting video, I'm wondering about the potential value of spreading this compost on a field and growing nitrogen fixing cover crop into it for 1-2 years then harvesting the resulting soil, or growing regular crops in it after that. Lot of work but it seems like it might allow for more decomposition but also enrich the soil at the same time since the nitrogen fixers probably will do okay with the low N levels.
The only benefit I was able to make with mulch was with was compost tea. Using unclorinated water, bokashi, micro organisms, molasses, kelp, minerals and sometimes fish emulsion and a fish bubbler for 3 days. Allow the breakdown 10x faster. I use compost tea once a week sometimes every two weeks. It works very well.
Sounds and looks like Grazon or something like it. I've come across it more often and don't use any kind of commercial manure or compost , even found it in famous black cow that some people rave about.
Thank you :) I tried grow potatoes in containers, I have used municipal and our compost and potatoes had huge big healthy stems and leaves but it seems to me that the plants invested everything in leaves not in tubers, there were many small tubers. Maybe too much of nitrogen?
That is interesting. Not sure what would cause that.
Well, at least you can use the compost as soil, and then add conventional fertilizers for nutrients. That's what I've been suspecting for years. This "grow bag" thing seems like it would be useful for someone trying to grow a few things in the city, where the yard soil might be contaminated with construction residue or even heavy metals
Yes, that is one of the reasons why I wanted to do this trial.
I normally think compost as adding a better water and nutrient buffer to my soil. I do not see it as a reliable source of nutrients for very productive areas.
Another angle to decomposition could be: Does the presence of plants increase decomposition through a more active myco fauna? Perhaps the mutualisme with plants increase fungi activity and you are actually speeding up the process?
Thanks for another great video. I use them in my work, just so you know the wide impact it is having.
isn't it related to heat waves as well? i found out that after the folliage reduces, the compost dries out quicker, try mulching with green grass clippings,it will react with the carbon. in a similar test i had a few bags in partial shade, those are still green mid july while the rest have dried out
Maybe you should switch to composted manure? It will be probably easier to get in bulk in some areas, not sure about your garden. Or you can start collecting some manure for the next growing season. After all my gardening years I still agree that variety is a key to a healthy and bounty crop. I missed your videos 🍀
Compost manure is hard to get around here. I wanted to do this experiment to see how to improve what is easiest to get.
Glad to be missed, and apologies for the absence. Things got a bit too busy, and I needed to step back for a bit to prevent burnout.
Good one brother..I knew that municipal compost was not attractive...
This year I have a serious nitrogen problem..with chickens and ducks and a few rabbits that had put in my greenhouse..the radish did horrible. And even the carrots were not great...
I may have to rip them all out soon and start over ..that's very unfortunate..
Van Island bc has had a good year so far lots of fruit on the trees..
Cheers
It can be a useful source of carbon, but without extra nitrogen can definitely be a problem. We are also having a good goring season over here. Lots of fruit!
Is feather meal available in your area? We use feather meal to bump up our nitrogen when we use fresh woodchip. Its a slow release nitrogen that could be a good compliment to your quicker nitrogen sources like urine.
All that was used here before was slightly rotted manure on potatoes if you want to try some give me a shout only down the road near moneygall.
I saw 2 possible mistakes in your Video.
1. You pur your amendments in top and Mix IT only in the surface.
I would pur it Out in the graund, showle it 3times to another place and than, back into the growingback.
2. I Always Take Control for the PH. Therefore Put ca into it.
yeah , top dressing in bag > 10 L is not a good idea , mix with all the substrat . And ph 6.5 Ec : 2.0 ms .
Jepp
Yeah, I should have mixed everything deeper into the bags.
The problem could be what was used to make that compost , most nutrients in trees are in the bark and branches , very little in the trunk .
I have the feeling that the garden with the EU weather this spring is somewhat lagging behind as compared with last year. The wet early spring followed by a dry warm later spring, really knocked back some plants. I have the feeling everything is two to three weeks behind on schedule.
What are your observations on this in Ireland?
How much micro life do you have from start? As i had issues before whit heat that kill microbe maybe it is some to watch in your trial next year, as i seen u not use any fungus on the bought compost might help you keep microbes in the soil, It just some thoughts. Very good info you tell us so far very good channel
That could be an issue, which is why I added the slurry of different biologically active compost materials to each bag at the start of the season. I do wonder if the heat of the bags will be killing off or inhibiting some of the biology, but I don't think that would explain the differences in growth that I am seeing between the bags.
With all the amending you're forced to do, are you sure the compost is doing any good at all? You might do just as well and save money by forgetting the compost and just amending your native soil.
Amending the native soil is man option, though I would want to add some compost or grow green manures to prevent the levels of soil organic matter from dropping too much.
The other reason for doing these trials is to find a way to support all those people who are using this kind of compost as a mulch in their no-dig gardens, or in other contexts, to fid ways to get the most out of it, if I can.
@@REDGardensIf they're using it on a mature no dig garden, then this stuff would be fine. It's just food for the soil biome, which is the focus of no dig to begin with
If you have another trial, try adding Mycorrhizal Fungi.
Could it be that weed and feed has been used on the grass clippings that are collected and used in the compost
Do you have an animal manure source? I wonder if how a 50/50 mix would do, even at the risk of burning a few seed potatoes.
Also could you do a batch with inoculated legume crop the first year?
Could you bring it in the fall and let it age on-site overwinter or is it not available?
Can you make a video how you track record and manage all these grow tests?
I'll think about how to make a video like that interesting.
Excellent video. Maybe it is a missing microbiology that is causing problems since it is a closed system. It would be interesting to see a few bags with living root all year round. Some of them could be amended with biochar...
Possibly, which might be why the compost could do better on the soil.
thats the thing! there is tons of free information tools about cultureing out microbes. it can be extremely straight foreward.
once you take the time to make a very quality diverse mother compost pile. you can culture it out(give it a full spectrum food like alfalfa meal. or somehting ith a balanced ratio of the npk. let it ferment . even fermented ith straight orm castings and then applied can do amazing things...
I just noticed something. It seems that the bags that did better were regular fed with fertilizer or dilute urine, and the other bags weren't. Could it just be that the amendments were just washing out of the grow bags?
Possibly losing a bit, bit not sure that is the main reason for the differences.