As a scientist, I have to give you all my respect. This is a superb and broad study. Since I want to use self-made compost, biochar and liquid feeds (nettle etc.) your results let me look forward to the next season. Thanks for your immense effort!
I really appreciate the way you describe how you designed your study and measured the out come. You make the scientific method very practical and understandable.
Thank you for your (as usual) thorough work, and comprehensive sharing of your learnings. I'd really like to see an addition to the trial next year, of a soil that is amended by succession planting after a heavy nitrogen fixer, and perhaps one with green manure. And just to put my own 2c in: please don't go ahead with letting the plants access the ground! I think it will skew results way too much, and definitely unevenly. Drip irrigation is an excellent idea though!
@@REDGardens definitely will add a whole season of extra prep, but I reckon it'd fit well with your general style and would be keen to see the results. Meanwhile, I'm definitely mining the soil under my compost next year!
It's interesting to think about the implications of your results for using soil beneath the compost. I infer that piling my yard waste like grass clippings and leaves in one 20' x 20' area in my yard for a couple of years and then planting in the soil beneath will produce a fabulous garden. This seems to validate the Ruth Stout method.
I think that method of composting on the surface of a future growing space is a really good one. I do some sheet composting as part of the crop rotation in the Simple Garden that I manage, and it seems to work really well.
Im a horticulture student who has been using bio char in one of my class personal experiments and all my tomatoes, carrots and lettuce has blown away everyone else's experiments. Im just about finished with the experiment and will be writing up my paper soon. Ive loved how biochar contributes to water capacity as well as being a good buffer for soil. I had a pretty "hot" soil but my plants had no nutrient burn or deficiencies throughout the grow and leaching was minimal. Thanks for the vids and I look forward to more in the future.
@@fuckgoogleandyou8779 it was "precharged" and also mixed in compost/worm castings but yes I do suspect that some of the nutrients were absorbed due to the % of bio char I had in the mix (15%, yea it was allot). I heard bio char is at its best after a season or two so Im interested in seeing how a long term soil thats 5-10% biochar will be year after year with the normal amendments and the occasional tea for each growing season.
That is so cool that you were able to get good results with biochar. I have been planning to do a 'proper' pot trial with biochar for a while, with multiple variations. Perhaps next year, but this one trial was fairly interesting.
Just goes to show how important good soil health and fertility is to a good crop yield. There definitely seems to be a benefit in top dressing garden beds with a good quality compost aka no dig. I wonder if combining some supplied (poor) compost with your home made compost (and maybe some extra fertility could be added) would give a decent result while stretching your compost supply. Thanks for sharing your results. Love your process.
I think that is a good option, better/richer or more mature compost on first, covered by the less fertile stuff probably gets a better balance between shorter term benefit and longer term soil building.
That's what I'm thinking too. Apply your own high quality compost first, for nutrients and microbiology (don't need a lot then), then a top layer of low quality municipal compost as a mulch to get the required thickness to supress weeds. Btw, I'm looking into sourcing composted bark as an alternative to municipal compost, as it has much less N. Applying tons of compost is a complete overkill in terms of N, although most of it is insoluble and released over time. It also adds more P, heavy metals and bits of plastics than I like. I know some market gardeners in the states (eg. Daniel Mays) have had to do this, as the amount of P in their soil was becoming an issue. Composted bark is not as easy to get hold of, though.
I have just prepared a new plot using 9cm deep equivalent of poor compost dug in. Yellow leaves everywhere, not what I would have expected before this season. You have certainly left me with a lot of interesting options to think about. Thank you, you inspire me as always.
Digging in that kind of compost has been a problem in my other gardens. I suspected it would be an issue, but I guess I was hoping it wouldn't be. And after seeing the issues with this experiment, I realise digging it in has actually held back those gardens.
The quality of the compost is essential. It has to be mature, fully composted. And any woody materials fully broken down to avoid nitrogen binding. But if left on top as a mulch, it's much more forgiving. I like that about the no-dig method, it's very simple in that sense. Even poor, municipal compost is fine as a mulch (though not as good as high quality compost).
As a landscaper, a person who loves gardening and growing my own food, I love this video! Experiments like this are fascinating and a wonderful part of learning, thank you for sharing this.
Thanks for another fine video. Last March I put about 40-50mm of compost, similar to what you called your municipal compost, on about 2,000 square feet (200square meters) of growing beds. After a month the plants were really struggling looking very, very bad. Eventually I realized the were starving and did an emergency supplementation with some 16-16-16 commercial fertilizer, which almost immediately turned them around, saving my season. I generally grow organically but I don't believe in allowing ideology into the garden, you have to do what you have to do. The beds still got 50mm of compost, they just needed some additional bioavailable nutrients to allow the plants to grow properly.
Yes compost will help reintroduce all the fungal and microbial populations after you killed them all with that petrol synthetic chemical fertilizer you applied. Careful with that stuff as the plants emit an infrared light that calls the bugs to eat it hence the pesticides
I have had similar experience with the plants struggling even though there was a lot of compost. The soluble fertiliser I think is a good option in this kind os situation, as I suspect that any 'damage' done by the quick release fertility will be mitigated by the abundance of compost above. Something I wish I had done in my new polytunnel this year. I but concentrated fertility on the surface of the soil and topped it up with 75mm of the low grade compost, and the plants did well for the first while, then ran out of fertility later in the season. That is the focus of my next video.
I noticed years ago that the weeds were growing better around my compost so I started just doing compost piles in unused parts of the garden moving it to a different spot each time. overall the results have been pretty good, the pile pretty much totally breaks down over the winter and it helps break up the heavy clay soil I have. nutrients get dissolved in water and flow down, so under the compost pile is amazing ground and top-dressing is better unless the soil is so compact the water runs off.
Yay!! You're going to irrigate! Are you going to run a generative drip schedule where you use few larger doses to get to saturation in the am then let it dryback until the next day's irrigation? Or spread out the shots thru out the day for a vegetative approach? Start vegetative then switch once topgrowth has ceased? I'll be growing sweet potatoes on my roof in Pennsylvania, so I'm thinking vegetative all the way. This growbag series couldn't have been better timed! Thank you so much for all you do! It's invaluable!
What I get out of this is that the cheapest and easiest way to achieve yield is to use the soil underneath the compost. All the other methods involve cost and more work in this context. So next year, I will grow my potatoes in a bag of soil from underneath my compost.
Excellent observations and insights. I must say I often find myself thinking about how increasing yields could be balanced with the costs associated with them. Example would be Soil vs Solomons COF. The trials and results are invaluable, and as always lots of things to think about. Cheers
I think that is the key part of it all, balancing the yields and costs, including the time it takes., and the resources that you have available. Large yields only one part of the equation.
@@REDGardens agreed if we look at the Big Ag model, there's definitely more than one goal to consider. Nutrient density is all the rage atm, but seems difficult to quantify. Lots of anecdotal suppositions but I haven't seen too much concrete experiments surrounding the topic. It would be fantastic if you could partner with a University, or something along those lines to really delve into it. Food for thought ;) Thanks again, you're one of the most thought provoking channels on the platform!!
I can say I've found potato growth is pretty dependent on the seed it starts with so I wonder if this same trial times 10 might yield more actionable results. Thanks for the great video as always.
A greater number of plants would definitely produce better results, and be more statistically accurate. The 5 bags of each type in this trial is probably the bare minimum to get a sense of what is going on. It was really useful to see all the plants of a particular type of amendment with similar size of plant and leaf colour and similar range of yield. Lets me know there is a general direction to the results.
Put in ridges with a spade this year.. Earthing up over grass clippings and refused silage n dung,fed with some comfrey nettle tea gave me results that blew me away. 👍🏻
First of all, thank you for all your oustanding work and sharing your results with a broad audience. What I would find interesting is an economic comparison of the different methods, both for a single year and maybe a 5-year period (as you mentioned biochar and poor compost need a longer time to provide their full benefit). I have absolutely no idea how much these amendmends cost in comparison and also how much effort they require.
I had my best results w potatoes by mixing in my own compost(grass clippings/leaves, ash, chicken blood n guts/ pine shavings w rabbit n poultry manure) with my garden top soil and adding an organic fertilizer
this video is such an excellent contribution to the often really confusing discussions about different soil amendments. i appreciate your diligent and scientific approach to growing a great deal - putting the ideology behind some of the different approaches to the side for one moment and focussing in a controlled way on the impacts different growing strategies actually have on plant growth and yields. onya Bruce thanks from hargraves, new south wales
Hey there in Hardgraves! Had to look it up of course, but it is so amazing to me that someone so far away in a completely different climate can get something out of my explorations and videos! Thanks of the comment. Grow on!
The 'soil under compost' result was pretty spectacular, wasn't it? As you were saying the mixes I thought - oh that will grow well - but it wasn't as good as I thought. You put in some dynamic work for sure!. I couldn't think of anything else you could try except perhaps wood ash, but you would need a fair bit, and I don't think it would be much good anyway. There is something in that trial for all of us. It was dark here today at 4.39pm - your videos keep me thinking of spring. Thank you so much.
it was pretty amazing. Wood ash would be an interesting one, especially as I have access to a lot of it from our district heating system, and very different ash form the fires we have in our back yard. It would definitely need an additional source of nitrogen, and a lot of it, and with our high pH soils I wonder how it would do.
Thank you for this wonderful video, it really inspires me to keep going with my own (much smaller) attempts at growing potatoes and tomatoes in containers. I also use biochar as an amendment but so far had a difficult time in getting a feel for the effects of it. This, and other trials, are much more suitable and I am really glad to be able to learn as much as I did. Thanks again!
Yeah, that would probably work well, especially as this compost tends to arrive quite dry, so mixing it in can help absorb some of the moisture if a compost is too wet.
I use a similar compost like the one you use and I find it is a good soil conditioner but I have to rely on adding adequate fertilizer to get good growth from my plants.
On the data sheet of my municipal compost, it says that it requires additional N fertilisation during the first season. It's basically burnt, immature compost. And relatively poor in microbiology, if I have understood correctly.
I would agree that it needs at least some nitrogen, and possibly a lot of other things. I think it is best to treat it as a good source of basic carbon, which can become a real benefit to the gardens with time and/or additional amendments.
What a great job!! I'm amazed! Thank you for sharing these experiments! Have you tested the p.H of the bags soil? I would guess the soil beneath the compost has a p.H closer to what potatoes need (~5,5 to 6)
The soil around here is generally high pH, above 7.5, as it is calcareous soil derived from limestone. I didn't check the bags, but I imagine it is in that very consistent range.
Municipal compost is "burnt", so it is relatively low in microorganisms. It's also immature, so it's still binding nitrogen. If you let it sit and mature for a while, it will be much better. Or, just use it as a mulch instead of mixing it into the root zone where it can cause problems. Nitrogen binding isn't an issue when used as a mulch.
@ximono That is good to know. We have been using the local compost as a mulch for the last 2 decades so there are probably some areas with very mature soil. Maybe we should think about using that for new plants and replace that with new compost.
@@ecospider5 It's great as a mulch, I do the same thing. I think you can have it sit in a pile for some months before using it, for it to finish composting. Your older areas will still need nutrients applied, just not as much as new areas. One issue with applying a lot of compost over time is that it also builds up P in the soil. Eventually, you could reach levels that are too high for plants. I know some market gardeners (eg. Daniel Mays) have switched to composted bark mulch for that reason. Something to keep in mind.
@ximono Thanks. I have a phosphorus tester but didn’t really know when to use it. I will check the areas I have put down compost for over a decade and see if it is to high.
I believe you mentioned it in the video, but I bet that the poor quality compost can still be useful as a top dressing. It would provide all the benefits of mulch with the added benefit that when water passes through it'll bring the nutrients that are adequately available to the plants down to the root zone. In fact I bet this is the best method of application for regular compost too. Maybe you could do a pseudo no-dig option next year where you start some bags soon with a cover crop, let nature do the watering, and then plant into the bag at the appropriate time. I believe the biology of the soil would benefit greatly from having all that time to get established. Could the potatoes be grown in a partially open bottom container with the majority of the nutrients actually coming from the soil beneath the bag? I'm curious if potatoes have a preference for growing where the nutrients are dense, or do they favor a position relative to the leaves and stems of the plant. Maybe you could reap the benefits of both an easy potato harvest and a no-till nutrient source for the plants this way.
I agree that it is a good top dressing, though I wonder how much fertility will pass through. After emptying the bags I topped up all of the fertility, including adding a lot more of the poor compost onto the top of the bag with only municipal compost, leaving it on the surface this time. The issue with trying to do a no dig experiment in the bags, is it all gets mixed up the process of harvesting.
You may already know about the Allotment Diary channel on here. He gets pretty crazy yields from container grown potatoes. He normally makes a shallow truth for the bags/pots to sit in. Then rakes the soil back up around the base of the bags/pots. I'd say as long as your soil wasn't some awful builder's loam. You'd be grand having the roots going into the soil below, esp if you also mulch between the bags/pots. That would cut down even more on the need to water, suppress weeds, and feed the plants/soil. But like you said. For any kind of trial, you really need to remove random factors. Even more so when you have a small sample size. Or up the sample size and go for the overall averages. Downside is more work up front, and watering if we get a decent dry summer. Plus, you're taking up more area you could be growing other crops on.
I have seen his yields, pretty amazing. And yeah, upping the sample size is one possibility, but that starts to become too much for me, and this channel will be at risk f becoming the 'potato bag trial channel'! 😀
@@REDGardens I don't know how you keep track of all the trials you do as is. But I think the information is valid, and of help to anybody growing in pot/bags. Esp people starting out, growing only a few bits of veg in their back garden.
Hey Bruce, I work within horticulture as an adviser on peat based substrates. There is a lot of interest right now in alternative media for horticulture and really appreciate these videos. A few comments. Municipal compost. As far as I've found it varies greatly in composition during a year. In april it is perhaps made mostely out of christmas trees and later it is made of more diverse material. It is a difficult material to work with, when hopeing for consistency. As you have found out it can also bind a lot of Nitrogen due to high non-decombosed matter. and should probably be matured for a while before use. On compost tea. Perhaps the addition a diverse microbial fauna added very efficient microbes that did what you hoped for. But the growth of the bacterial colony bound nitrogen that othervise would be available to the plant. A solution could be to mature the bag in advance to allow the microbs to bloom and die back. Just a thought. In regards to how you should approch the next round. Perhaps looking into "maturing" some of the material as well. As an example: my experience with chiken pellets are that they need far more time before the nutrients are available. Meaning if you start the trial at the same time with one big having a normal NPK pre-charge and the same amount of fertilizer as chiken pellets you might be putting the organically grown plants at a disadvantage. But it is difficult to add chicken pellets 3 weeks before the plants need the fertilizer. But I do think the timeing of the different fertilizer is key. Thank you for great content!
Thanks for the input! The municipal compost is definitely in need of a lot more time to mature! Very interesting what you mention about the microbes absorbing gate nitrogen in the soil, I hadn't thought about that. So much to learn and explore. I have been adding the amendments to the bags already, to allow them to mature over the winter and into the spring, as I suspect you are right about needing time. I think that is the case with a lot of the different amendments.
I burn wood for heat. I sift the charcoal from the ashes. I spread the charcoal on the grass in the back yard over the winter. Walking on the grass tamps the charcoal into the soil. During the spring and summer months, the grass in the back yard is noticeably healthier than the front yard. I would like to do the same to the front yard but it looks terrible during the winter months as its spread and tamped in. I dump the ash into a large grass and leaf compost pile. I use the compost to grow potatoes, this is how I found you.
Very interesting and useful results. I really appreciate your thorough scientific approach! However, I can't help but think that these are "in-vitro" results that don't translate to growing potatoes in the ground. It would be interesting to see a similar trial done in the ground (with municipal compost used as a mulch instead of mixed in). Maybe using grow bags on top of the ground for the roots to dig into the soil beneath? Those were the most impressive bags in this trial anyway, so I'm most interested in trying that after seeing these results :)
Good point. This wasn't really about growing potatoes, but more to use potatoes to better understand the issues with different types of amendments. What I learn from these in-vitro trials is not directly translatable to the in-vivo context, but the control that the bags offer helps to identify issues and possibilities, that would be harder to do in the soil. If I wanted to grow the best crop of potatoes using these bags, I would probably do things a lot differently, including placing them directly on the soil.
I like to use grow bags and containers, however they tend to dry out fast, so I try to take the best of both, burying the bags/containers half way into the soil to protect them from the heat of the sun and atmosphere.
It's a great trial and I love your open approach. But the results do make me wonder if the "tea" concept is really worth the effort. Seems to be quite a bit of work for not very high yields... I know there are growers that get higher yields with this method, but I guess none of them uses it as isolated as you did. For that reason I would probably not allow the plants to reach the soil underneath the bags but I guess I would like the higher yields too. ;-)
The 'tea' option is one of the ones that disappointed me the most in this trial, but also the one that intrigues me the most. How can I get this approach to work much better?
This exsperiment makes me think my approach on using the soil in my chicken enclosure is the right idea. I dump all my food waste and old bedding from my chicken coop in the enclosure, and use the broken down soil as my amendments to grow vegetables.
That compost looks very similar to the stuff they spread around public shrubs and the like to keep the weeds down in my home town/Tyrone. In fact, it's prob the exact same stuff, just aged a bit more.
This was such a great experiment! I am definitely going to give the Solomon Organic Fertilizer another try. I think growing with it in buckets/bags would eliminate the problem of the voles injuring the plants as they are trying to get the seed meal. I am curious if you noticed any scab on the potatoes you grew with the chicken fertilizer. I grow mainly with homemade chicken compost but I have not been using it with my potatoes lately because it seemed to be contributing to scab. Thank you for all the hard work!
Considering the success of dilute urine in other parts of the trial, would you say that a mix of homemade "one rule compost" and dilute urine would be decent if compost was in short supply? Would this just create other nutrient deficiencies? I also would be interested in how well a green manure amended soil would work in this.
hi, i really appreciate your content. i just wanted to bring a few things to your attention maybe for future consideration. i am of the understanding that compost tea is supposed to be used as a foliar inoculant when your plants are having disease problems, not as soil amendment. if you want a liquid compost-based soil amendment, i believe you want to use a compost extract. they are much easier to make than AACT. i am of the understanding that you are supposed to foliar feed the underside of leaves, not the top side of the leaf. the video looks like you are spraying the top of the leaves.
Thanks for the comment! All learning for me. With the activated compost tea I was broadly following the advice of people who use teas for the soil and for the leaves, for both improving soil health and disease mitigation.
thinking about your yields due to the roots accessing the soil outside of the grow bags seems like a very reasonable approach and very little cost. using the most basic of soils to help get the plants to grow to a reasonable size, then once the roots get into the ground below will just accelerate their productivity for an already established plant, imagine a yield as big as the 5th bag, in every grow bag! my only questions are how much do you want the soil beneath to be affected, and is there enough nutrients in the ground that it will not effect the planned use of the soil after the harvest?
Letting the plants in the bags get access to the soil, is a definite benefit if I want the bigger crops. And I can always add additional fertility to the soil to boost things even more, and reduce the impact on future crops in that soil. But, I am leaning more towards isolating these bags from that resource next year, so that I can focus on what is in the bag itself, because that is where more of the learning is. Explorations over productivity!
I have a couple ideas that would make for a very fascinating trial….First, dig a hole about the size of those pots right in the garden, then fill it with that good dirt from beneath the compost pile; plant the potatoes into that. Then the roots have more room outside of the medium for both water and nutrient expansion. I would love to see the yield from that sort of condition. The second idea is to take that good compost soil and run a soil test, amending all of the macro and micro nutrients, then plant the potatoes in it. How large of an improvement would that make, if any?
Thank you for your efforts. I seem to constantly battle common scab for my potato crops. Any tips specific to battling this issue? I understand that it may be a condition that may not be fully eradicated. :>))
I’m surprised Bruce that you’re not experimenting further with urine, given its great result in another of your tests. Urine has a reasonable NPK balance but apparently as a fertiliser it loses a lot of nitrogen to the atmosphere, plant uptake consequently being lower than with ammonium nitrate. But uptake of phosphorus is higher from urine than that achieved with soluble phosphate. I’ve always added extra phosphorus to whatever fertiliser I’ve applied to potatoes, because as I understand it, in the broadest of terms, nitrogen is for leaf; potassium for flowers and fruit; and phosphorus for roots. Could potatoes’ demand for phosphorus, and urine’s ability to deliver it, be the secret?
Yeah, I want to do a lot more explorations with urine, and regret not including it in this part of the trial. But it is a limited resource, at least the stuff that is easy for me to get! 😁 Interesting points you may about availability and uptake, so much to learn and explore!
What about mulching to retain water? I had 2 tattie patches this year, the one mulched with chipped hedge clippings (mainly conifer!) did NOTICEABLY better than the one that was not.
That is an option, which would help, though most of the water was pulled out of the bag by the plants, with the bottom of the bag being even drier than the upper parts.
How did u. Do the second.feeding ..did u just scratch it in or just leave it on top? Was the water.amounts the same? Im really really sick and had a hard time following this so peehaps if i listen when well May be longtime as pushing 80 and.this isnt.covid but dang it feels.like.pneumonia.again So.once.again my.take.away.is.i haven't mt.been.feeding my.plants.correctly or.enough..i just had my best.fall.garden ever In my long.gardening life.despite.no.rain.and.record heat..i.don't.have a clue why at.this point ..but.im.thankful i had one.before i.die. It could of.been my last the way i feel
Sorry to hear that you are not feeling well. Hope you get better soon. With the second feeding I just left the fertiliser off the surface of the soil, and it dissolved fairly quickly.
Almost 100% organic. There is a few things I use/do that are outside what is normally considered 'organic'. I manage a lot of different plots/gardens, and some of them are no-dig or min-till.
That was in the batch grown in the municipal compost. I didn't include a version in this soil-based part of the trial that was fed with urine, but I should have, and might do that next year.
Adding carbon to your soil is the #1 most important thing anyone can do. "Municipal compost" is not not compost, it is nothing more than wood chip/sawdust and grass clippings that has decomposed just enough to change its color. But it is carbon! I feel that "Municipal compost" has only two uses, first: a thick layer (5-6") over lawn without any cardboard is an easy way to convert the lawn into a garden for the next season (there are a lot of reasons why this works well). Second: as an addition to your own composting system to add carbon to the mix when you don't have much carbon around naturally. Both of these uses allow any herbicides that are more than likely in the "Municipal compost" to break down before you put any plants in. Biochar! I can't say enough good things about it! Use it! Over use it! Put in pots, compost piles, worm bins, but most of all dig it deep into your soil! Bruce, I was wondering how do these results compare to your regular garden potato yields? That seems like the ultimate "control group" to use in your graphs!
Yes, it is a lot of carbon, and after his experiment I am realising more that the issue switch how to get that benefit, and feed the plants at the same time, without 'robbing' from the soil. Yeah, I need to use more biochar! And to do a proper trial to look at the different options with using biochar. A comparison with the results from the other gardens would have been good to include. Generally I would have thought a decent yield from a variety like this should be in the 2-3kg/plant range, so for the two plants I would hope for a yield between 4 and 6 kg, which only two bags were in that range, though another few were getting close.
I don't think it is sold by that brand anymore. I buy the chicken manure pellets from here www.fruithillfarm.com/organic-soil-plant-fertilisers/granular-fertilizers/greenvale-organic-plant-food.html
Mixing the junk compost into the soil should not be seen as retarding the fertility of the soil; it should be seen as accelerating the improvement of the compost. That compost will improve nowhere faster than mixed into the native soil. The next batch will improve nowhere faster than mixed into one-year pre-conditioned soil. If I understand your trial correctly, it seems compost-amended-topsoil did better than pure-topsoil in greater proportion than the amendment ratio. I think the lesson is, do not hesitate to mix that junk compost into your topsoil.
interesting trend - in 7/10 cases, bag 5 did significantly better than most other bags. Why does it skew that way? See full chart here:ua-cam.com/video/60fWuJe1DNg/v-deo.html
Well spotted. I am going to talk about that in a future video, but basically some of the bag 5 plants had access to the soil below through the gap in the ground cover fabric, which really helped a few of them. And the 5th batch of bags was placed between two polytunnels, so had a warmer microclimate.
I concurr with multiple comments on how wonderfully superb and broad study it is. From your results, it looks to me that Soil under compost was the most rich in bacteria / microbes / fungi (soil life) from the years of composting above it. You might take a look at JADAM Microbial Solution which enhances the number of bacteria billions fold, and is easily adapated to drip irrigation too. Anyways. Congrats and thank you for all your efforts with your experiments.
Thanks! Yes, that soil is probably very alive, with probably as much fertility as this type of topsoil can hold. I do want to look at the JADAM. Been on my list for a while, but haven't started exploring yet.
@@REDGardens their approach is very good on the teaching / freely giving the recipes and their yt channel is very informative, and on top of that, it works wonderfully (in the, increasing soil life sense for jms, and for its other recipes too). Very much recommend.
despite the utopian stories about compost and other organic potions, farmers use actual nutrients of known quantities that meet the needs of crops. compost is almost all carbon, on the way to becoming carbon dioxide. woody media is good for mushrooms. bags/containers require a completely different mix than when growing in ground. you would need a good container mix, with which to test (limited quantities) of amendments. increasingly agriculture is going high tech hydroponic. seems they're on the right track as they're producing high yields of healthy crops profitably, but now without pesticides/herbicides needed. organic gurus/experts are merely good snakeoil salesmen. keep up the good work. my entire spring has been shockingly wet and cold. tomatoes are still tiny..normally 5 foot by this time. sigh.
The other part of the trial was growing in different mixes more suitable for containers. I would disagree with you about the some types of compost, and the 'snakeoil salesmen' comment. So much depends on the context, and the high tech hydroponic seems great, but a full lifecycle and energy cost of the materials and inputs typically identifies a lot of problematic issues. I am interested in exploring a lot of different things, but usually focus on what people can do for themselves.
@@REDGardens : they could probably get it for free, so why dont large scale farmers apply compost instead of expensive fertilizer? is it that it has minimal benefit, as opposed to all the unquantified utopian organic marketing?
@@Chris-op7yt It seems that most of the large scale farmers use fertiliser because it is easier and cheaper, and more controlable, which does not necessarily make it better for the soil or the plants. Applying compost at a huge scale doesn't make the same financial sense the way a lot of farms are run. That doesn't mean that it is not a perfectly viable and beneficial option for smaller scale growers. You should check out what people like Richard Perkins has been able to do with a method of growing lots of high value vegetables with a lot of compost, without fertiliser amendments. He has turned out a very profitable market garden business with his methods, which seem to have a lot of additional benefits in terms of productivity and ease of growing, and he has been able to do it in a northern climate where growing vegetables can be a lot harder.
As a scientist, I have to give you all my respect. This is a superb and broad study. Since I want to use self-made compost, biochar and liquid feeds (nettle etc.) your results let me look forward to the next season. Thanks for your immense effort!
Wow, thank you!
I really appreciate the way you describe how you designed your study and measured the out come. You make the scientific method very practical and understandable.
Thank you! Glad I was able to make it understandable!
This in an outstanding piece of work and to be honest nothing less than I’ve come to expect from you. Well done!
Ah, thanks!
Seconded.
you're so smart and so thorough, thx for sharing
🙂
Thank you for your (as usual) thorough work, and comprehensive sharing of your learnings.
I'd really like to see an addition to the trial next year, of a soil that is amended by succession planting after a heavy nitrogen fixer, and perhaps one with green manure.
And just to put my own 2c in: please don't go ahead with letting the plants access the ground! I think it will skew results way too much, and definitely unevenly. Drip irrigation is an excellent idea though!
I have been thinking about how to introduce a succession planting and green manure like that.
@@REDGardens definitely will add a whole season of extra prep, but I reckon it'd fit well with your general style and would be keen to see the results.
Meanwhile, I'm definitely mining the soil under my compost next year!
It's interesting to think about the implications of your results for using soil beneath the compost. I infer that piling my yard waste like grass clippings and leaves in one 20' x 20' area in my yard for a couple of years and then planting in the soil beneath will produce a fabulous garden. This seems to validate the Ruth Stout method.
I think that method of composting on the surface of a future growing space is a really good one. I do some sheet composting as part of the crop rotation in the Simple Garden that I manage, and it seems to work really well.
Im a horticulture student who has been using bio char in one of my class personal experiments and all my tomatoes, carrots and lettuce has blown away everyone else's experiments. Im just about finished with the experiment and will be writing up my paper soon. Ive loved how biochar contributes to water capacity as well as being a good buffer for soil. I had a pretty "hot" soil but my plants had no nutrient burn or deficiencies throughout the grow and leaching was minimal. Thanks for the vids and I look forward to more in the future.
Yea the carbon absorbed nutrients
@@fuckgoogleandyou8779 it was "precharged" and also mixed in compost/worm castings but yes I do suspect that some of the nutrients were absorbed due to the % of bio char I had in the mix (15%, yea it was allot). I heard bio char is at its best after a season or two so Im interested in seeing how a long term soil thats 5-10% biochar will be year after year with the normal amendments and the occasional tea for each growing season.
@@chrish6725 sounds spot on I’m sure it will be excellent
That is so cool that you were able to get good results with biochar. I have been planning to do a 'proper' pot trial with biochar for a while, with multiple variations. Perhaps next year, but this one trial was fairly interesting.
Just goes to show how important good soil health and fertility is to a good crop yield. There definitely seems to be a benefit in top dressing garden beds with a good quality compost aka no dig. I wonder if combining some supplied (poor) compost with your home made compost (and maybe some extra fertility could be added) would give a decent result while stretching your compost supply. Thanks for sharing your results. Love your process.
I think that is a good option, better/richer or more mature compost on first, covered by the less fertile stuff probably gets a better balance between shorter term benefit and longer term soil building.
That's what I'm thinking too. Apply your own high quality compost first, for nutrients and microbiology (don't need a lot then), then a top layer of low quality municipal compost as a mulch to get the required thickness to supress weeds.
Btw, I'm looking into sourcing composted bark as an alternative to municipal compost, as it has much less N. Applying tons of compost is a complete overkill in terms of N, although most of it is insoluble and released over time. It also adds more P, heavy metals and bits of plastics than I like. I know some market gardeners in the states (eg. Daniel Mays) have had to do this, as the amount of P in their soil was becoming an issue. Composted bark is not as easy to get hold of, though.
I have just prepared a new plot using 9cm deep equivalent of poor compost dug in. Yellow leaves everywhere, not what I would have expected before this season. You have certainly left me with a lot of interesting options to think about.
Thank you, you inspire me as always.
Digging in that kind of compost has been a problem in my other gardens. I suspected it would be an issue, but I guess I was hoping it wouldn't be. And after seeing the issues with this experiment, I realise digging it in has actually held back those gardens.
The quality of the compost is essential. It has to be mature, fully composted. And any woody materials fully broken down to avoid nitrogen binding. But if left on top as a mulch, it's much more forgiving. I like that about the no-dig method, it's very simple in that sense. Even poor, municipal compost is fine as a mulch (though not as good as high quality compost).
As a landscaper, a person who loves gardening and growing my own food, I love this video! Experiments like this are fascinating and a wonderful part of learning, thank you for sharing this.
Glad you enjoyed it!.
Thanks for another fine video. Last March I put about 40-50mm of compost, similar to what you called your municipal compost, on about 2,000 square feet (200square meters) of growing beds. After a month the plants were really struggling looking very, very bad. Eventually I realized the were starving and did an emergency supplementation with some 16-16-16 commercial fertilizer, which almost immediately turned them around, saving my season. I generally grow organically but I don't believe in allowing ideology into the garden, you have to do what you have to do. The beds still got 50mm of compost, they just needed some additional bioavailable nutrients to allow the plants to grow properly.
Yes compost will help reintroduce all the fungal and microbial populations after you killed them all with that petrol synthetic chemical fertilizer you applied. Careful with that stuff as the plants emit an infrared light that calls the bugs to eat it hence the pesticides
I have had similar experience with the plants struggling even though there was a lot of compost. The soluble fertiliser I think is a good option in this kind os situation, as I suspect that any 'damage' done by the quick release fertility will be mitigated by the abundance of compost above. Something I wish I had done in my new polytunnel this year. I but concentrated fertility on the surface of the soil and topped it up with 75mm of the low grade compost, and the plants did well for the first while, then ran out of fertility later in the season. That is the focus of my next video.
This is very helpful, thank you.
🙂
I noticed years ago that the weeds were growing better around my compost so I started just doing compost piles in unused parts of the garden moving it to a different spot each time.
overall the results have been pretty good, the pile pretty much totally breaks down over the winter and it helps break up the heavy clay soil I have.
nutrients get dissolved in water and flow down, so under the compost pile is amazing ground and top-dressing is better unless the soil is so compact the water runs off.
I think that is a really good method.
Fab, thorough and fascinating, as usual. Thanks Bruce
🙂
Yay!! You're going to irrigate! Are you going to run a generative drip schedule where you use few larger doses to get to saturation in the am then let it dryback until the next day's irrigation? Or spread out the shots thru out the day for a vegetative approach? Start vegetative then switch once topgrowth has ceased?
I'll be growing sweet potatoes on my roof in Pennsylvania, so I'm thinking vegetative all the way.
This growbag series couldn't have been better timed! Thank you so much for all you do! It's invaluable!
I hadn't thought about it too much to be honest. Need to look into it more.
What I get out of this is that the cheapest and easiest way to achieve yield is to use the soil underneath the compost. All the other methods involve cost and more work in this context. So next year, I will grow my potatoes in a bag of soil from underneath my compost.
That seems to be the work.
I can relate to the disjunctive between science and getting more potatoes :´D
Yeah, it is a strange one!
Love that u can get really good results from plain old matured compost dirt.
It definitely was nice to find that out.
LOVE THESE VIDEOS!
😀
Excellent observations and insights. I must say I often find myself thinking about how increasing yields could be balanced with the costs associated with them.
Example would be Soil vs Solomons COF.
The trials and results are invaluable, and as always lots of things to think about.
Cheers
I think that is the key part of it all, balancing the yields and costs, including the time it takes., and the resources that you have available. Large yields only one part of the equation.
@@REDGardens agreed if we look at the Big Ag model, there's definitely more than one goal to consider.
Nutrient density is all the rage atm, but seems difficult to quantify. Lots of anecdotal suppositions but I haven't seen too much concrete experiments surrounding the topic.
It would be fantastic if you could partner with a University, or something along those lines to really delve into it.
Food for thought ;)
Thanks again, you're one of the most thought provoking channels on the platform!!
I can say I've found potato growth is pretty dependent on the seed it starts with so I wonder if this same trial times 10 might yield more actionable results. Thanks for the great video as always.
A greater number of plants would definitely produce better results, and be more statistically accurate. The 5 bags of each type in this trial is probably the bare minimum to get a sense of what is going on. It was really useful to see all the plants of a particular type of amendment with similar size of plant and leaf colour and similar range of yield. Lets me know there is a general direction to the results.
Put in ridges with a spade this year.. Earthing up over grass clippings and refused silage n dung,fed with some comfrey nettle tea gave me results that blew me away. 👍🏻
🙂
First of all, thank you for all your oustanding work and sharing your results with a broad audience. What I would find interesting is an economic comparison of the different methods, both for a single year and maybe a 5-year period (as you mentioned biochar and poor compost need a longer time to provide their full benefit). I have absolutely no idea how much these amendmends cost in comparison and also how much effort they require.
Fantastic experiment, looking forward to next years experimentation
🙂
I had my best results w potatoes by mixing in my own compost(grass clippings/leaves, ash, chicken blood n guts/ pine shavings w rabbit n poultry manure) with my garden top soil and adding an organic fertilizer
Sounds like a good combination.
Thanks! I enjoyed your talk.
🙂
Top quality content chief! From Dallas, Texas
Thanks! And hello there in Dallas, Texas!
this video is such an excellent contribution to the often really confusing discussions about different soil amendments. i appreciate your diligent and scientific approach to growing a great deal - putting the ideology behind some of the different approaches to the side for one moment and focussing in a controlled way on the impacts different growing strategies actually have on plant growth and yields. onya Bruce thanks from hargraves, new south wales
Hey there in Hardgraves! Had to look it up of course, but it is so amazing to me that someone so far away in a completely different climate can get something out of my explorations and videos! Thanks of the comment. Grow on!
The 'soil under compost' result was pretty spectacular, wasn't it? As you were saying the mixes I thought - oh that will grow well - but it wasn't as good as I thought. You put in some dynamic work for sure!. I couldn't think of anything else you could try except perhaps wood ash, but you would need a fair bit, and I don't think it would be much good anyway. There is something in that trial for all of us. It was dark here today at 4.39pm - your videos keep me thinking of spring. Thank you so much.
it was pretty amazing. Wood ash would be an interesting one, especially as I have access to a lot of it from our district heating system, and very different ash form the fires we have in our back yard. It would definitely need an additional source of nitrogen, and a lot of it, and with our high pH soils I wonder how it would do.
Thank you for your hard work. Would have love to have seen off the shelf tomorite mix with tomato-level weekly or ten day liquid feeding.
That would be another useful option to investigate.
Thank you for this wonderful video, it really inspires me to keep going with my own (much smaller) attempts at growing potatoes and tomatoes in containers. I also use biochar as an amendment but so far had a difficult time in getting a feel for the effects of it. This, and other trials, are much more suitable and I am really glad to be able to learn as much as I did. Thanks again!
Thanks for the comment, and glad you have been able to learn from my efforts! Hope you have a good season next year!
Excellent video as always. Thank you for sharing. Keep up the good work!
Thank you!
Thanks for this very interesting trial. I've used horse manure this year. You'd add that to your trial next time. 😉
Horse manure would be a good one to try.
Do you have a video about your soil sieve? It appears to rock on its own stand rather than sliding (and falling) on the container below
That sieve I made specifically for harvesting these bags, and it works simply by rocking it back and forth.
If you ever find yourself short on browns for your homemade compost, perhaps the municipal compost would serve as a good source of “browns” to mix in
Yeah, that would probably work well, especially as this compost tends to arrive quite dry, so mixing it in can help absorb some of the moisture if a compost is too wet.
I use a similar compost like the one you use and I find it is a good soil conditioner but I have to rely on adding adequate fertilizer to get good growth from my plants.
On the data sheet of my municipal compost, it says that it requires additional N fertilisation during the first season. It's basically burnt, immature compost. And relatively poor in microbiology, if I have understood correctly.
Same here.
I would agree that it needs at least some nitrogen, and possibly a lot of other things. I think it is best to treat it as a good source of basic carbon, which can become a real benefit to the gardens with time and/or additional amendments.
What a fantastic video.
Thanks!
Great work.
Thanks!
What a great job!! I'm amazed! Thank you for sharing these experiments!
Have you tested the p.H of the bags soil? I would guess the soil beneath the compost has a p.H closer to what potatoes need (~5,5 to 6)
The soil around here is generally high pH, above 7.5, as it is calcareous soil derived from limestone. I didn't check the bags, but I imagine it is in that very consistent range.
Looks like not all compost is created equal. That mature compost was amazing. I wonder if adding some charcoal would add any benefit
Yeah, there is definite differences in compost.
Municipal compost is "burnt", so it is relatively low in microorganisms. It's also immature, so it's still binding nitrogen. If you let it sit and mature for a while, it will be much better. Or, just use it as a mulch instead of mixing it into the root zone where it can cause problems. Nitrogen binding isn't an issue when used as a mulch.
@ximono That is good to know. We have been using the local compost as a mulch for the last 2 decades so there are probably some areas with very mature soil. Maybe we should think about using that for new plants and replace that with new compost.
@@ecospider5 It's great as a mulch, I do the same thing. I think you can have it sit in a pile for some months before using it, for it to finish composting. Your older areas will still need nutrients applied, just not as much as new areas.
One issue with applying a lot of compost over time is that it also builds up P in the soil. Eventually, you could reach levels that are too high for plants. I know some market gardeners (eg. Daniel Mays) have switched to composted bark mulch for that reason. Something to keep in mind.
@ximono Thanks. I have a phosphorus tester but didn’t really know when to use it. I will check the areas I have put down compost for over a decade and see if it is to high.
Wow! This is really helpful!
🙂
Amazing
Thanks
I believe you mentioned it in the video, but I bet that the poor quality compost can still be useful as a top dressing. It would provide all the benefits of mulch with the added benefit that when water passes through it'll bring the nutrients that are adequately available to the plants down to the root zone. In fact I bet this is the best method of application for regular compost too. Maybe you could do a pseudo no-dig option next year where you start some bags soon with a cover crop, let nature do the watering, and then plant into the bag at the appropriate time. I believe the biology of the soil would benefit greatly from having all that time to get established. Could the potatoes be grown in a partially open bottom container with the majority of the nutrients actually coming from the soil beneath the bag? I'm curious if potatoes have a preference for growing where the nutrients are dense, or do they favor a position relative to the leaves and stems of the plant. Maybe you could reap the benefits of both an easy potato harvest and a no-till nutrient source for the plants this way.
I agree that it is a good top dressing, though I wonder how much fertility will pass through. After emptying the bags I topped up all of the fertility, including adding a lot more of the poor compost onto the top of the bag with only municipal compost, leaving it on the surface this time. The issue with trying to do a no dig experiment in the bags, is it all gets mixed up the process of harvesting.
You may already know about the Allotment Diary channel on here. He gets pretty crazy yields from container grown potatoes. He normally makes a shallow truth for the bags/pots to sit in. Then rakes the soil back up around the base of the bags/pots.
I'd say as long as your soil wasn't some awful builder's loam. You'd be grand having the roots going into the soil below, esp if you also mulch between the bags/pots. That would cut down even more on the need to water, suppress weeds, and feed the plants/soil.
But like you said. For any kind of trial, you really need to remove random factors. Even more so when you have a small sample size. Or up the sample size and go for the overall averages. Downside is more work up front, and watering if we get a decent dry summer. Plus, you're taking up more area you could be growing other crops on.
I have seen his yields, pretty amazing. And yeah, upping the sample size is one possibility, but that starts to become too much for me, and this channel will be at risk f becoming the 'potato bag trial channel'! 😀
@@REDGardens I don't know how you keep track of all the trials you do as is. But I think the information is valid, and of help to anybody growing in pot/bags. Esp people starting out, growing only a few bits of veg in their back garden.
@@theressomelovelyfilthdownh4329 🙂
Hey Bruce,
I work within horticulture as an adviser on peat based substrates. There is a lot of interest right now in alternative media for horticulture and really appreciate these videos.
A few comments.
Municipal compost. As far as I've found it varies greatly in composition during a year. In april it is perhaps made mostely out of christmas trees and later it is made of more diverse material. It is a difficult material to work with, when hopeing for consistency. As you have found out it can also bind a lot of Nitrogen due to high non-decombosed matter. and should probably be matured for a while before use.
On compost tea. Perhaps the addition a diverse microbial fauna added very efficient microbes that did what you hoped for. But the growth of the bacterial colony bound nitrogen that othervise would be available to the plant. A solution could be to mature the bag in advance to allow the microbs to bloom and die back. Just a thought.
In regards to how you should approch the next round. Perhaps looking into "maturing" some of the material as well. As an example: my experience with chiken pellets are that they need far more time before the nutrients are available. Meaning if you start the trial at the same time with one big having a normal NPK pre-charge and the same amount of fertilizer as chiken pellets you might be putting the organically grown plants at a disadvantage. But it is difficult to add chicken pellets 3 weeks before the plants need the fertilizer. But I do think the timeing of the different fertilizer is key.
Thank you for great content!
Thanks for the input! The municipal compost is definitely in need of a lot more time to mature! Very interesting what you mention about the microbes absorbing gate nitrogen in the soil, I hadn't thought about that. So much to learn and explore.
I have been adding the amendments to the bags already, to allow them to mature over the winter and into the spring, as I suspect you are right about needing time. I think that is the case with a lot of the different amendments.
I burn wood for heat. I sift the charcoal from the ashes. I spread the charcoal on the grass in the back yard over the winter. Walking on the grass tamps the charcoal into the soil. During the spring and summer months, the grass in the back yard is noticeably healthier than the front yard. I would like to do the same to the front yard but it looks terrible during the winter months as its spread and tamped in. I dump the ash into a large grass and leaf compost pile. I use the compost to grow potatoes, this is how I found you.
Sounds like an interesting method of building fertility.
Very interesting and useful results. I really appreciate your thorough scientific approach! However, I can't help but think that these are "in-vitro" results that don't translate to growing potatoes in the ground. It would be interesting to see a similar trial done in the ground (with municipal compost used as a mulch instead of mixed in). Maybe using grow bags on top of the ground for the roots to dig into the soil beneath? Those were the most impressive bags in this trial anyway, so I'm most interested in trying that after seeing these results :)
Good point. This wasn't really about growing potatoes, but more to use potatoes to better understand the issues with different types of amendments. What I learn from these in-vitro trials is not directly translatable to the in-vivo context, but the control that the bags offer helps to identify issues and possibilities, that would be harder to do in the soil. If I wanted to grow the best crop of potatoes using these bags, I would probably do things a lot differently, including placing them directly on the soil.
I like to use grow bags and containers, however they tend to dry out fast, so I try to take the best of both, burying the bags/containers half way into the soil to protect them from the heat of the sun and atmosphere.
That would help. Keeping them from drying out was a key issue, and I am looking forward to seeing how the dripper pipes help things next year.
Have you considered putting trays with gravel in them under the bags to make tiny wicking beds to keep the water up to the plants?
I hadn't though of that, but with so many bags that would be a lot of trays. If it was just a few then I think it would be worth it.
It's a great trial and I love your open approach. But the results do make me wonder if the "tea" concept is really worth the effort. Seems to be quite a bit of work for not very high yields... I know there are growers that get higher yields with this method, but I guess none of them uses it as isolated as you did. For that reason I would probably not allow the plants to reach the soil underneath the bags but I guess I would like the higher yields too. ;-)
The 'tea' option is one of the ones that disappointed me the most in this trial, but also the one that intrigues me the most. How can I get this approach to work much better?
@@REDGardens well it can also be that it is a bit overrated as a method? Or maybe this is just the case for this type of plant..
This exsperiment makes me think my approach on using the soil in my chicken enclosure is the right idea.
I dump all my food waste and old bedding from my chicken coop in the enclosure, and use the broken down soil as my amendments to grow vegetables.
I imagine that soil would grow some good crops!
That compost looks very similar to the stuff they spread around public shrubs and the like to keep the weeds down in my home town/Tyrone. In fact, it's prob the exact same stuff, just aged a bit more.
Probably the same stuff.
This was such a great experiment! I am definitely going to give the Solomon Organic Fertilizer another try. I think growing with it in buckets/bags would eliminate the problem of the voles injuring the plants as they are trying to get the seed meal. I am curious if you noticed any scab on the potatoes you grew with the chicken fertilizer. I grow mainly with homemade chicken compost but I have not been using it with my potatoes lately because it seemed to be contributing to scab. Thank you for all the hard work!
Thanks. Yes, there was scab on the potatoes with the chicken manure, but not any more than with the other soil based bags.
Considering the success of dilute urine in other parts of the trial, would you say that a mix of homemade "one rule compost" and dilute urine would be decent if compost was in short supply? Would this just create other nutrient deficiencies?
I also would be interested in how well a green manure amended soil would work in this.
I think that is a good option, and I think that any other deficiencies would be based on particular issues with the soil you are starting with.
hi, i really appreciate your content. i just wanted to bring a few things to your attention maybe for future consideration.
i am of the understanding that compost tea is supposed to be used as a foliar inoculant when your plants are having disease problems, not as soil amendment. if you want a liquid compost-based soil amendment, i believe you want to use a compost extract. they are much easier to make than AACT.
i am of the understanding that you are supposed to foliar feed the underside of leaves, not the top side of the leaf. the video looks like you are spraying the top of the leaves.
Thanks for the comment! All learning for me. With the activated compost tea I was broadly following the advice of people who use teas for the soil and for the leaves, for both improving soil health and disease mitigation.
thinking about your yields due to the roots accessing the soil outside of the grow bags seems like a very reasonable approach and very little cost. using the most basic of soils to help get the plants to grow to a reasonable size, then once the roots get into the ground below will just accelerate their productivity for an already established plant, imagine a yield as big as the 5th bag, in every grow bag! my only questions are how much do you want the soil beneath to be affected, and is there enough nutrients in the ground that it will not effect the planned use of the soil after the harvest?
Letting the plants in the bags get access to the soil, is a definite benefit if I want the bigger crops. And I can always add additional fertility to the soil to boost things even more, and reduce the impact on future crops in that soil. But, I am leaning more towards isolating these bags from that resource next year, so that I can focus on what is in the bag itself, because that is where more of the learning is. Explorations over productivity!
I have a couple ideas that would make for a very fascinating trial….First, dig a hole about the size of those pots right in the garden, then fill it with that good dirt from beneath the compost pile; plant the potatoes into that. Then the roots have more room outside of the medium for both water and nutrient expansion. I would love to see the yield from that sort of condition. The second idea is to take that good compost soil and run a soil test, amending all of the macro and micro nutrients, then plant the potatoes in it. How large of an improvement would that make, if any?
Interesting possibilities. I do want to test that soil, to see what it is like compared to the regular soil.
Thank you for your efforts. I seem to constantly battle common scab for my potato crops. Any tips specific to battling this issue? I understand that it may be a condition that may not be fully eradicated. :>))
I get lots of scab in the soil, but in the bags without soil, with a carbon based growing medium, I didn't end up with scab.
You need to include trench composting. See what that does for the plants.
That would be interesting.
I’m surprised Bruce that you’re not experimenting further with urine, given its great result in another of your tests. Urine has a reasonable NPK balance but apparently as a fertiliser it loses a lot of nitrogen to the atmosphere, plant uptake consequently being lower than with ammonium nitrate. But uptake of phosphorus is higher from urine than that achieved with soluble phosphate. I’ve always added extra phosphorus to whatever fertiliser I’ve applied to potatoes, because as I understand it, in the broadest of terms, nitrogen is for leaf; potassium for flowers and fruit; and phosphorus for roots. Could potatoes’ demand for phosphorus, and urine’s ability to deliver it, be the secret?
Yeah, I want to do a lot more explorations with urine, and regret not including it in this part of the trial. But it is a limited resource, at least the stuff that is easy for me to get! 😁
Interesting points you may about availability and uptake, so much to learn and explore!
What about mulching to retain water? I had 2 tattie patches this year, the one mulched with chipped hedge clippings (mainly conifer!) did NOTICEABLY better than the one that was not.
That is an option, which would help, though most of the water was pulled out of the bag by the plants, with the bottom of the bag being even drier than the upper parts.
@@REDGardens wow. Ok. Yeah it was very dry here too this year.
I read gardening when it counts years ago but have really struggled to find seedmeal anywhere.
It is really hard to get around here too.
How did u. Do the second.feeding ..did u just scratch it in or just leave it on top?
Was the water.amounts the same?
Im really really sick and had a hard time following this so peehaps if i listen when well
May be longtime as pushing 80 and.this isnt.covid but dang it feels.like.pneumonia.again
So.once.again my.take.away.is.i haven't mt.been.feeding my.plants.correctly or.enough..i just had my best.fall.garden ever
In my long.gardening life.despite.no.rain.and.record heat..i.don't.have a clue why at.this point ..but.im.thankful i had one.before i.die.
It could of.been my last the way i feel
Sorry to hear that you are not feeling well. Hope you get better soon.
With the second feeding I just left the fertiliser off the surface of the soil, and it dissolved fairly quickly.
Do you grow 100 % organic, like composting on the same land, liquid compost tea/ compost extract. Also do you till your soil, much thanks in advance
Almost 100% organic. There is a few things I use/do that are outside what is normally considered 'organic'. I manage a lot of different plots/gardens, and some of them are no-dig or min-till.
I thought you had included a batch of spuds fed from urine. Or was that a different experiment?
That was in the batch grown in the municipal compost. I didn't include a version in this soil-based part of the trial that was fed with urine, but I should have, and might do that next year.
Maybe it's time to move the compost bays, and grow in that space...
Unfortunately sheltered by trees!
👌😌
🙂
how many litters are those growbags
About 40L
Adding carbon to your soil is the #1 most important thing anyone can do. "Municipal compost" is not not compost, it is nothing more than wood chip/sawdust and grass clippings that has decomposed just enough to change its color. But it is carbon! I feel that "Municipal compost" has only two uses, first: a thick layer (5-6") over lawn without any cardboard is an easy way to convert the lawn into a garden for the next season (there are a lot of reasons why this works well). Second: as an addition to your own composting system to add carbon to the mix when you don't have much carbon around naturally. Both of these uses allow any herbicides that are more than likely in the "Municipal compost" to break down before you put any plants in.
Biochar! I can't say enough good things about it! Use it! Over use it! Put in pots, compost piles, worm bins, but most of all dig it deep into your soil!
Bruce, I was wondering how do these results compare to your regular garden potato yields? That seems like the ultimate "control group" to use in your graphs!
Yes, it is a lot of carbon, and after his experiment I am realising more that the issue switch how to get that benefit, and feed the plants at the same time, without 'robbing' from the soil.
Yeah, I need to use more biochar! And to do a proper trial to look at the different options with using biochar.
A comparison with the results from the other gardens would have been good to include. Generally I would have thought a decent yield from a variety like this should be in the 2-3kg/plant range, so for the two plants I would hope for a yield between 4 and 6 kg, which only two bags were in that range, though another few were getting close.
Dear where can I find greenvale plant food Please? Contact details will be really appreciated. Thanks
I don't think it is sold by that brand anymore. I buy the chicken manure pellets from here www.fruithillfarm.com/organic-soil-plant-fertilisers/granular-fertilizers/greenvale-organic-plant-food.html
@@REDGardens thanks very much dear
Mixing the junk compost into the soil should not be seen as retarding the fertility of the soil; it should be seen as accelerating the improvement of the compost. That compost will improve nowhere faster than mixed into the native soil. The next batch will improve nowhere faster than mixed into one-year pre-conditioned soil. If I understand your trial correctly, it seems compost-amended-topsoil did better than pure-topsoil in greater proportion than the amendment ratio. I think the lesson is, do not hesitate to mix that junk compost into your topsoil.
dam that's a university study not a trial
🙂
interesting trend - in 7/10 cases, bag 5 did significantly better than most other bags. Why does it skew that way? See full chart here:ua-cam.com/video/60fWuJe1DNg/v-deo.html
Well spotted. I am going to talk about that in a future video, but basically some of the bag 5 plants had access to the soil below through the gap in the ground cover fabric, which really helped a few of them. And the 5th batch of bags was placed between two polytunnels, so had a warmer microclimate.
I concurr with multiple comments on how wonderfully superb and broad study it is.
From your results, it looks to me that Soil under compost was the most rich in bacteria / microbes / fungi (soil life) from the years of composting above it.
You might take a look at JADAM Microbial Solution which enhances the number of bacteria billions fold, and is easily adapated to drip irrigation too.
Anyways. Congrats and thank you for all your efforts with your experiments.
Thanks! Yes, that soil is probably very alive, with probably as much fertility as this type of topsoil can hold.
I do want to look at the JADAM. Been on my list for a while, but haven't started exploring yet.
@@REDGardens their approach is very good on the teaching / freely giving the recipes and their yt channel is very informative, and on top of that, it works wonderfully (in the, increasing soil life sense for jms, and for its other recipes too). Very much recommend.
U-R-I-N-E 🤍💙🤍💙
Yes! I forgot to include the urine option in this soil based trial, but hope to include it next year.
@@REDGardens looking forward to that 😁
despite the utopian stories about compost and other organic potions, farmers use actual nutrients of known quantities that meet the needs of crops.
compost is almost all carbon, on the way to becoming carbon dioxide. woody media is good for mushrooms.
bags/containers require a completely different mix than when growing in ground. you would need a good container mix, with which to test (limited quantities) of amendments.
increasingly agriculture is going high tech hydroponic. seems they're on the right track as they're producing high yields of healthy crops profitably, but now without pesticides/herbicides needed. organic gurus/experts are merely good snakeoil salesmen.
keep up the good work.
my entire spring has been shockingly wet and cold. tomatoes are still tiny..normally 5 foot by this time. sigh.
The other part of the trial was growing in different mixes more suitable for containers.
I would disagree with you about the some types of compost, and the 'snakeoil salesmen' comment. So much depends on the context, and the high tech hydroponic seems great, but a full lifecycle and energy cost of the materials and inputs typically identifies a lot of problematic issues.
I am interested in exploring a lot of different things, but usually focus on what people can do for themselves.
@@REDGardens : they could probably get it for free, so why dont large scale farmers apply compost instead of expensive fertilizer? is it that it has minimal benefit, as opposed to all the unquantified utopian organic marketing?
@@Chris-op7yt It seems that most of the large scale farmers use fertiliser because it is easier and cheaper, and more controlable, which does not necessarily make it better for the soil or the plants. Applying compost at a huge scale doesn't make the same financial sense the way a lot of farms are run. That doesn't mean that it is not a perfectly viable and beneficial option for smaller scale growers. You should check out what people like Richard Perkins has been able to do with a method of growing lots of high value vegetables with a lot of compost, without fertiliser amendments. He has turned out a very profitable market garden business with his methods, which seem to have a lot of additional benefits in terms of productivity and ease of growing, and he has been able to do it in a northern climate where growing vegetables can be a lot harder.
p̲r̲o̲m̲o̲s̲m̲ 🌹
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