its fs5 shogun combo clearly the winner for me in terms of image quality & cost effective..u also get a multi-function powerful monitor for your production with less price
From what I’ve read, slog2 is what Sony (and sony experts) recommend you use when recording via external recorder. Using other gammas will apparently not give you any extra dynamic range.
There is no difference in the exporting slog2 or slog3 to the recorder or any other codec for that matter. Put it in cine4 and it will export slog2. However, the gamma you choose will affect the output, which is odd. I know Sony recommends sgamut for lowest noise, but I prefer the look of sgamut3.cine. It’s a bit noisier in the greens, but this is easily corrected in davinci and the colors lock better than sgamut imo. Look more filmic.
Thank you so much for the encouragement! We look forward to doing more videos like this in the future, just hard to carve out the time. We just ordered the FX9 so I can't wait to test that out!
Just so you know you can't output Slog3 when poutputting RAW on the Fs5 - you can check by changing the gamma from slog2 to 3 and you'll notice that the contrast doesnt change. Easiest way is to make pp7 slog2 and pp8 slog3. Toggle between them and you'll see what I'm saying.
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look at the cheek and the hair... the transition from blown out parts to the next color always looks glitchy on the fs5 ... it has a weird yellow cast, sometimes extreme and on raw it does not look as smooth like on 6:30 idk for me fs7 is still the winner and having not the hassle of ultra big file sizes the choice is for me clear
Hey Souf! Both have center crop in slightly different ways. The FS7 has a Super 16 mode to x2 the sensor, the FS5 has a Clear Image Zoom like the Sony Alpha cameras where you can map it to the zoom rocker on the hand grip and smoothly zoom to x2 the sensor with minimal to no quality loss.
I have issues with this test as the FS7's native ISO at 0dB Gain is 2000 but the FS5 at 0dB Gain is ISO 800. Even with the FS5 RAW out, I'd still be wanting to set both cameras at 0db Gain then you might have a more conclusive test.
@BenGillFilms Fair enough comparison if that is the case (please check) but if you're shooting 4K on the FS5 in S-Log 3 at ISO 2000, (0dB Gain?) the resultant image is 8bit 4:2:0 compared with the FS7's 10bit 4:2:2. Capturing HD at 10bit 422 S-Log 3 on both Cameras could offer a more conclusive test. Or, does your FS5 RAW output render all that obsolete?
@@CraigMarshall_HDvideo4K Hey Craig! Check out the tests again with the info in the top right corner. We have the test you're suggesting at around 4:30 where the 8-bit is compared to the 10 bit with the same settings. Around 3:45 is the FS5 12-bit RAW vs. the FS7 10-bit. The central argument is the ease of getting a "better" 12-bit image (or 10-bit if you do RAW to ProRes) for a fraction of the cost. Feel free to download the footage as well and decide for yourself!
@@BenGillFilms OK, will do. The cost of the RAW recorder needs to be taken into account as well. I have both FS7 and FS5 cameras but I prefer to capture 10bit 422 HD to SSDs on both cameras using low cost Samurai Blade SDI recorders. My tests indicate that 10bit 422 HD bumped to 4K using Topaz VAI provides a more efficient workflow than dealing with large 4K MXF files recorded to expensive cards.
Were all these tests shot with the 18-110 f/4 G pictured? Great test, but maybe let the comparison frames run longer next time so we can see the motion.
ken cooper if you look in the top right corner of the tests you’ll see the lens/settings. All tests were with a Sigma Art 50. Thanks for the feedback! I was doing the test more for my own knowledge and then later turned it into a video. Next time I’d like to do the tests in a more studio environment 👍🏼
This test was a few years ago now but I think some of the test footage is in the description if you wanted to compare. RAW to ProRes 422 is very similar file sizes to the .mxf files out of the FS7.
Valerie Toumayan It’s a great new option! You’d need the new SDI to HDMI Adapter they announced last week though because the FS5 only outputs RAW through SDI.
Yes! It's the same Sony E-Mount as the FS5 is natively. It's a super-35 sensor so that also gives you the flexibility of using a speedbooster adapter to get a wider field of view and an extra stop of light!
I'm a total noob, zero video experience. I've been looking at getting a 4k camcorder in the $1200 to $1500 range, but I saw someone local selling a used fs5 with 4 batteries, monitor, tripod, and case for $2k. I know this cameras out of my league, but I should I jump on this?
That's an insane price! Makes me a little skeptical that something is wrong with it, but if not, jump on that!! It can be really easy to use and you definitely can't beat it at that price.
@@BenGillFilms awesome, thanks for the reply! It does sound too good to be true. Anything in particular I should look out for? Or is that one of those things I probably won't find out until I use it for awhile?
Good work. Thank you. If I have the Atomos Shogun Inferno. I was told Shogung Inferno is not using Win-microsoft, but only in combination with apple. Is that correct? And if not, with which software can Shogun Inferno be processed in Windows?
Hey sorry for the late reply. The Inferno records directly to SSDs Drives so you can plug them in and read them just like any other hard drive. I haven't run into any OS-specific problems but I do have MacDrive & Paragon softwares on my respective Windows & Mac computers.
You cant compare this over a video posted on the internet. First of all, you would need a 10 bit monitor to actually see the difference in terms of color depth, secondly, youtube compresses its videos. Bottom line, impossible to make an opinion based on the videos you posted. The proper way to do this, is to use a 10 or 12 bit calibrated monitor in a studio....not on youtube.
hands down to FS5+RAW 12bit is clear winner, in commercial shoot. when consider run and gun, shooting style like documentary, lack of manpower...i guess FS7 is clear winner. just depends on shooting condition and project, there is no perfect camera, only most suitable gear :) a great test but why only 4.8k view ? haha
I really like what you said: "there is no perfect camera, only most suitable gear". I've been trying to find ways to justify the FS7, but what you said makes me lean more towards the FS5. I'm all about run n' gun! Currently working on a Gh5
XMOR is just the sensor focus tested name.. The FS5 and FS7 use slight variants of the same sensor, Fs5 has lower quality control standards The F3 and other cameras do NOT use the same sensor. They use older "Exmor" sensors.
its fs5 shogun combo clearly the winner for me in terms of image quality & cost effective..u also get a multi-function powerful monitor for your production with less price
How in hell does this video only have 800 views? This is great!
Thanks man!
From what I’ve read, slog2 is what Sony (and sony experts) recommend you use when recording via external recorder. Using other gammas will apparently not give you any extra dynamic range.
From what I've read from Alister Chapman on it, there's no difference on the RAW side shooting S-log 2 versus S-log 3!
There is no difference in the exporting slog2 or slog3 to the recorder or any other codec for that matter. Put it in cine4 and it will export slog2. However, the gamma you choose will affect the output, which is odd. I know Sony recommends sgamut for lowest noise, but I prefer the look of sgamut3.cine. It’s a bit noisier in the greens, but this is easily corrected in davinci and the colors lock better than sgamut imo. Look more filmic.
Great test! Thank you!
Thank u for this detailed and very considerate video. Love your ‘to-the-point’ delivery. All the info is very useful. Very much appreciated.
Thank you so much for the encouragement! We look forward to doing more videos like this in the future, just hard to carve out the time. We just ordered the FX9 so I can't wait to test that out!
Just so you know you can't output Slog3 when poutputting RAW on the Fs5 - you can check by changing the gamma from slog2 to 3 and you'll notice that the contrast doesnt change.
Easiest way is to make pp7 slog2 and pp8 slog3. Toggle between them and you'll see what I'm saying.
look at the cheek and the hair... the transition from blown out parts to the next color always looks glitchy on the fs5 ... it has a weird yellow cast, sometimes extreme and on raw it does not look as smooth like on 6:30 idk for me fs7 is still the winner and having not the hassle of ultra big file sizes the choice is for me clear
I have the Sony FS5 MK2, & I absolutely love it!🎥🔥
Witch one does offer a central crop feature ? Thanks
Hey Souf! Both have center crop in slightly different ways. The FS7 has a Super 16 mode to x2 the sensor, the FS5 has a Clear Image Zoom like the Sony Alpha cameras where you can map it to the zoom rocker on the hand grip and smoothly zoom to x2 the sensor with minimal to no quality loss.
I have issues with this test as the FS7's native ISO at 0dB Gain is 2000 but the FS5 at 0dB Gain is ISO 800. Even with the FS5 RAW out, I'd still be wanting to set both cameras at 0db Gain then you might have a more conclusive test.
I believe when the FS5 is shooting S-Log 3, the native ISO becomes 2,000 and you cannot go lower. Both cams were shooting S-Log 3.
@BenGillFilms Fair enough comparison if that is the case (please check) but if you're shooting 4K on the FS5 in S-Log 3 at ISO 2000, (0dB Gain?) the resultant image is 8bit 4:2:0 compared with the FS7's 10bit 4:2:2. Capturing HD at 10bit 422 S-Log 3 on both Cameras could offer a more conclusive test. Or, does your FS5 RAW output render all that obsolete?
@@CraigMarshall_HDvideo4K Hey Craig! Check out the tests again with the info in the top right corner. We have the test you're suggesting at around 4:30 where the 8-bit is compared to the 10 bit with the same settings. Around 3:45 is the FS5 12-bit RAW vs. the FS7 10-bit. The central argument is the ease of getting a "better" 12-bit image (or 10-bit if you do RAW to ProRes) for a fraction of the cost. Feel free to download the footage as well and decide for yourself!
@@BenGillFilms OK, will do. The cost of the RAW recorder needs to be taken into account as well. I have both FS7 and FS5 cameras but I prefer to capture 10bit 422 HD to SSDs on both cameras using low cost Samurai Blade SDI recorders. My tests indicate that 10bit 422 HD bumped to 4K using Topaz VAI provides a more efficient workflow than dealing with large 4K MXF files recorded to expensive cards.
great, have you covered or used
FS5M2?
Not yet, but I'd love to! I'd probably have to compare it to the FS7 II as well.
Were all these tests shot with the 18-110 f/4 G pictured? Great test, but maybe let the comparison frames run longer next time so we can see the motion.
ken cooper if you look in the top right corner of the tests you’ll see the lens/settings. All tests were with a Sigma Art 50.
Thanks for the feedback! I was doing the test more for my own knowledge and then later turned it into a video. Next time I’d like to do the tests in a more studio environment 👍🏼
What were your FS5 file sizes on average per minute in each codec?
This test was a few years ago now but I think some of the test footage is in the description if you wanted to compare. RAW to ProRes 422 is very similar file sizes to the .mxf files out of the FS7.
S1h and Fs5ii which one is more better?
Hi, nice review! would the Atomos ninjaV work for this? it says it's recording ProRes Raw. it's smaller size so it would be best for me
Valerie Toumayan It’s a great new option! You’d need the new SDI to HDMI Adapter they announced last week though because the FS5 only outputs RAW through SDI.
does the sony a6300 take the same lens mount as the fs5?
Yes! It's the same Sony E-Mount as the FS5 is natively. It's a super-35 sensor so that also gives you the flexibility of using a speedbooster adapter to get a wider field of view and an extra stop of light!
I'm a total noob, zero video experience. I've been looking at getting a 4k camcorder in the $1200 to $1500 range, but I saw someone local selling a used fs5 with 4 batteries, monitor, tripod, and case for $2k. I know this cameras out of my league, but I should I jump on this?
That's an insane price! Makes me a little skeptical that something is wrong with it, but if not, jump on that!! It can be really easy to use and you definitely can't beat it at that price.
@@BenGillFilms awesome, thanks for the reply! It does sound too good to be true. Anything in particular I should look out for? Or is that one of those things I probably won't find out until I use it for awhile?
I guess just test everything (turning it on, checking the sensor, etc) and just ask a bunch of questions!
@@BenGillFilms thanks again
Good work. Thank you. If I have the Atomos Shogun Inferno. I was told Shogung Inferno is not using Win-microsoft, but only in combination with apple. Is that correct? And if not, with which software can Shogun Inferno be processed in Windows?
Hey sorry for the late reply. The Inferno records directly to SSDs Drives so you can plug them in and read them just like any other hard drive. I haven't run into any OS-specific problems but I do have MacDrive & Paragon softwares on my respective Windows & Mac computers.
Why does the cheaper camera get 12 bit? I am a confused noob
Erik Dowgin That’s the crazy thing. Both have 12-bit raw capabilities, but to do so on the FS5 is way cheaper!
Only with the paid upgrade can you send to to an external 12 bit capable recorder. It's not like the FS5 has it built-in to record right to card.
You cant compare this over a video posted on the internet. First of all, you would need a 10 bit monitor to actually see the difference in terms of color depth, secondly, youtube compresses its videos. Bottom line, impossible to make an opinion based on the videos you posted. The proper way to do this, is to use a 10 or 12 bit calibrated monitor in a studio....not on youtube.
Totally agree! That’s why there’s a link in the description so you can download footage and look for yourself 👍🏼
@@BenGillFilms Sounds good. Cheers.
If I do not want to shoot in raw, which one is better?
Overall, the FS7 is definitely better, but if you're shooting 1080 mostly, you probably won't notice much of a difference!
hands down to FS5+RAW 12bit is clear winner, in commercial shoot. when consider run and gun, shooting style like documentary, lack of manpower...i guess FS7 is clear winner. just depends on shooting condition and project, there is no perfect camera, only most suitable gear :) a great test but why only 4.8k view ? haha
I really like what you said: "there is no perfect camera, only most suitable gear". I've been trying to find ways to justify the FS7, but what you said makes me lean more towards the FS5. I'm all about run n' gun! Currently working on a Gh5
Aaron F Shafer did you shoot interviews + b roll using both the GH5 and FS5? Thanks
XMOR is just the sensor focus tested name..
The FS5 and FS7 use slight variants of the same sensor, Fs5 has lower quality control standards
The F3 and other cameras do NOT use the same sensor. They use older "Exmor" sensors.
no its the same sensor, this has been said by sony
Do you know what ADCs the FS5 and FS7 are using? There are known specs for the F3 and it's using 14bit ADC, but I can't find anything on the FS5/7.
I got my raw upgrade key for only $299
Hey where did you get it this cheap?
@@FreddiMuliantono I sell them lol