Daytona 24 they used the whole track. iRacing said "you can't park there sir" and so now they're resorting to a scorched earth policy. Sad really as I used to look up to these guys.
I was the GT4 that „lost it on the curb“. It was not me losing the car definatly. I had 30h of practice and we were leading by over a minute. I know how to keep the car on track on my own 😅 there was netcode touch that was very very avoidable by Williams. We were robbed there.
Yep i thought so. It was evident to see that the car only lost control once the porsche came up right onto your rear. Total disregard for everyone else racing, they had a sufficient lead and couldve waited a touch longer to pass safely. Feel for you and the team buddy.
@@jacobdanielharrington Pro Simracers know where netcodes will appear and have to avoid them. Not only for others but for themselves. After spending hundreds of hours on the sim you can blame others for mistakes like that
Fully agree!! The top split that's getting televised seriously needs to be live marshalled. iRacing have already proved that they can run multiple 24hr race instances simultaneously without crashing (unlike rFactor), but now they need to step up and live marshal that televised split.
Thank you for bringing this to light, mate. I had such a sour taste in my mouth after Daytona 24, especially when Jenson Button got involved on twitter... It seems they have learned nothing and are entirely set on winning by any means necessary and then will block those who call them out - or get their big names to defend them. It's really putting a stain on Sim Racing. Big dogs pushing the little guys with zero consequences and then get to brag about winning to their sponsors, it's a joke.
f1 esports had cheating this year, a Williams esport driver got caught having cheats on stream, Williams in iracing keep getting away with their dirty driving's, their lack of sportsmanship, and they seem to get away with anything they do, Esports is losing its integrity
I remember this and he played it off as that he was testing them for EA/Codemasters 🤦🏻♂️ They have a very young team and management and I think it shows. A small mindedness of the wider implications of their actions
My opinion on the incidents are, that they were avoidable, but still racing incidents. The first one (which was btw Pflanzgarten 2 into the Stefan-Bellof-S, not Foxhole like you said), was more avoidable and the driver should have known that it is a tough section and to better overtake in the latter part of the section (braking zone for the Schwalbenschwanz section). The second one was at Wippermann and there I have to say, that with what we have seen in the clips we can't decide what has happend. The GT4 could've lifted a bit early, the PCup driver was a bit too fast and drifted out a tiny bit too much. Contact was made, both into the wall. Both incidents boil down to inexperience on the Nordschleife. And there I'm happy not being in the Top Split anymore for these special events. Because there are so many drivers that just don't know the track how the Top Split NEC drivers do. I've been driving in the NEC from season 1 (it is season 8 right now) in slower cars and there are only like a dozen drivers I trust blind to pass me without me having to even look into the mirror and the pass is made with little to no time loss. You don't get that from people that drive on the Nordschleife maybe twice a year at most - even with 9k+ iRating.
Williams eSports are just the clowns of simracing in 2023, we learned that after Daytona and with no real punishment ever coming from it, they'll just keep going like nothing happened.
Having live stewards for the special events would be fantastic! However at the very least, since it’s somewhat impractical to cover every split, the top split should always include live stewards. Williams, RedBull, these professional teams need proper governing and should be held to the highest standards. It’s a good move for iRacing and the entire sim community, but it also greatly improves the marketability of e-racing as a professional sport worthy of building a fan-base, and attracting sponsors. Can you imagine the chaos that would ensue if F1, or IMSA or WEC, NASCAR, Indy Car or any other professional motorsports series did away with live stewards? If iRacing is going to go through the trouble to create, build and promote sim racing as a professional sport, by association with professional drivers, teams, manufacturers, tracks and series, why risk gumming it all up by obfuscating the need and frankly, very simple fix, of including live stewards? Especially for the top splits with the professional teams?
Iracing should drop esports as it does more harm than good with the win at all costs mentality. This filters down to the lower splits where some drivers use Williams esports examples or worse the stupid senna saying to justify their lack of racecraft/sportsmanship. 99% of users just want a clean race without the toxicity that has plagued this awesome hobby
They can't drop eSports as technically the top split special events aren't closed Esports events. Anyone with enough skill and time could reach a high enough level to compete in them. While that is the case tho, the teams clearly place a lot of value on winning these events and as such are taking advantage of there being no live stewards and employing poor driving tactics with a win at all costs mentality. This needs to change
@stuffeyy yeah good point, live stewarding would go a long way to reducing these issues. I guess they'll only listen when they notice subscriptions declining as there seems to be it ain't broke so why bother fixing it approach
I've seen more respectful driving on LFM. If you're being lapped in the same class, then you need to be the one not interfering in someone else's race - sometimes how to do it can be the most difficult thing in Sim Racing, particularly on twisty circuits, but in multiclass even I know that it's down to the faster car to overtake safely.
As an avid sim racer im getting fed up of Williams Esports bending the rules to their advantage. If this happens again they should be banned because they do not deserve these wins when they use parts of tracks they shouldn't and they crash people out on purpose. Live stewarding would solve this hopefully and they will stop acting in this way. If someone took williams out in a race they would make sure other people got punished, but when it's them they keep their mouth shut
I honestly don't understand why the top split doesn't get live stewarded. I mean no one expects them to steward all splits which would be really unrealistic to pull off but come on why not just the top split? I mean every small acc league has live stewarding...
I agree. People drive this way at all levels sadly. You would think at the highest level it would be taken more serious when it comes to racecraft. All those teams care about is pace and lap time, not racecraft.
Same, top split is broadcasted and has the biggest names/teams racing. It's more likely to end up in publics eye so should be treated more professionally IMO
I agree that iRacing needs live stewarding for at least the 1st Split but the rest of the video is just bad. You are blaming a whole organisation for 1 netcode hit and 1 racing incident. Have you seen how many other people got killed in that race?? You are saying they need to act by example but you as a "influencer" (even if a smaller one) also have to act accordingly. For me you are just trying to take advantage of some beef that exploded on twitter. Thats caused by people that have no clue and only watched the race because of Verstappen. Milking views by a beef created by people that have no idea or that were biased towards BS. Quite poor if you ask me.
If Williams didn't want people to thirst for their blood, they shouldn't have made a habit of dirty racing. Nobody cares about which specific team demonstrates these patterns of behavior, only that one particular team does. Spare me the whinging whataboutism over Redline or whatever. Who cares about teams that don't have a track record of pulling these stunts? If they decide to learn from Williams' examples, they'll deserve just as much heat.
@@breadm2089 I agree with you that Williams did dirty things at daytona24 but also there you should remember that BS Competition did a similar thing with taking a "dead" lmdh and giving their GT3 tow. The Qualy and what Spetz did are totally not okay and a harsh penalty has been given. So for me there has been 1 dirty "move" for which they got a very hardh punishment. Time to move on from that and dont tell people at every incident that includes williams that they are bad people.
Both incidents occured due to poor driving and a lack of consideration for the other teams/drivers. Netcode is not a valid excuse as it wouldnt have occured if they were so reckless. This team has now been seen to act in a manner that lacks sportsmanship multiple times and in most cases would result in mid race penalties and even DQs. What I am trying to do is bring light to the fact sim racing is growing, it is becoming more popular to the public and driving like this and then celebrating the win is poor. I have also called out Redline for trying to use an exploit in the past so this isn't bias or trying to stir up beef. I hate cheats and want to see fair racing and the more people make light of the poor driving, shady tactics, cheating will only drive the powers that be to implement changes.
@@stuffeyy I've seen closer footage of the incident with BS. The contact would not have happened without the 0.5m netcode. And the 2nd incident is a racing incident, you cant blame the whole of williams eSports for that. In a race where it is that close you have to get quite close to the boundaries. That the Williams car doesnt go chilling and loses 2-3 seconds unnecessarily behind a GT4 should be obvious. The only "lack of sportsmanship" has been Daytona 24 Qualy and they got punished heavily for it. Idk what people like you see in these incidents or want to see in them.
Hey, i am the Teammanager of CARLAR esports (P4 TCR an this time) and i can tell you that most all of the GT3 Teams are driving hard. This GT3 Problem is not new. We had also a lot of those moments but lucky survive. Until 2h left a GT3 Team gabe us an divebomb at Mutkurve. Alsp unnessassry.
I think targeting Williams in this instance is VERY unfair, did they kill people.. Yes. Did all of the other GT3 teams do the same if not worse?! I get that creating a video targeting Williams specifically is a good way to get clicks & engagement given the lack of trust the community has in them presently, but this should have been a conversation about ALL of the top split teams and some of the things they're willing to do to succeed in the broadcast special events. Overall iRacing need to bring in Live Stewarding & Cautions to these events to stop these careless incidents and stop it from being a 24 hour sprint race. Having had teams in each of the top 3 splits for this race I can say, it was no better in those than it was in top split....
Williams should care about their reputation a little more than race results. iRacing absolutely have no excuse for no live stewarding in top split. Makes our sport look terrible. Not to mention how this encourages others to act, top split sets an example.
I understand Williams eSports set their self at a high expectation as a professional team. Coming from a former iRacing WCS F1 driver whos represented other top teams, this is not acceptable. This does not show good sportsmanship and craftsmanship in any shape or form. Not only were those the incidents but also GT3 Williams did the same move on the inside as their P Cup car to Wave Italys P Cup car. It was so Williams P Cup car had the advantage to overtake another car and take a top position. I have never seen such incidents like this in iRacing and I come from a time when everyone was good sports and professional in the top divisions. iRacing needs to step up and set examples with what happens when there are moves like this pulled in races. It is their community and sim. We pay to have fun and race on their sim after all.
Very much a win at all costs mentality. It indicates a young team and management that are not aware of the wider implications and image that comes with their actions. Other esports pro's are also calling them out for this and means that Williams now has a dodgy reputation.
At the Nordschleife, it is all about mutual respect on track. One of the few tracks where it is very normal to compromise your racing line as a slower car to let the faster car by. Because otherwise you might get stuck behind a slower car for quite some while. In the sporting code of the VLN series they actually mention signs of flashing lights and what the slower car is supposed to do in those situations. The following applies to all overtaking maneuvers: -Cars flashing to the left "drives/remains on the left side!" -Cars flashing to the right "drives/remains on the right side!" -No flashing light " The car remains on the racing line!" It is not a Williams Esports issue. There have actually been quite some incidents on track, some worse than these two. So to label Williams Esports as the bad guys is a bit too much here. 11 GT3s started - only 6 made it to the finish. The Porsche Cup was even worse, ONLY 3 out of the 11 made it out of the green hell alive. It is just overall a very difficult event because everyone is on the edge and the event is approached as a simracing event and not a real one. So yes, the special events need live stewarding in top split but Williams Esports is not predominantly responsible for aggressive driving.
Yea and I think it's more organizers and stewards fault than Williams racing. The only dirty thing they did was blocking opponents with their second car in Daytona 24h. Even their cheating in Daytona quali was more iracing or stewards fault. Because everyone knew they did invalid lap (according to rules) but no one penaltized them. All motorsport is about finding ways to break rules without getting penaltized. And in this N24h event their first crash was Williams mistake, yes. But it's mistake everyone can do. They should get penalty for it but you can't ban or kick team because they hit other car. And second one was pure iracing netcode issue, when game thinks you crashed even if there is big gap between cars. It's iracing who should do something with it. Like bringing better system to give drivers penalties during the race etc.
At this point I can't even blame the driver's, this has clearly shown that it's management issue. Management is the part of the team that teaches the team what is to be expected of them, not just in terms of performance but in their behavior both on and off the track. It's clearly evident that Williams eSports emphasizes winning at all cost and everybody else be damned, even if it brings the whole event and community down. It doesn't matter because they won.
It starts at the top as they say, and by blocking people on socials who are rightfully calling them out their driving standards and approach to these events shows that it's all about that W regardless of how they win it
Just my two cents, as a top split driver on another platform, I believe this isn't as big of an issue as it is made out to be. You guys need to change your attitude to the rules. Not to the winners. Yes these two crashes were Williams fault. But as much as you know it is their fault, you also know that there is no penalty for these kinds of accidents. Therefore it is on you to make sure you are never on the receiving end of these accidents. You also need to make sure that you do not hold back when it is you that is overtaking a lapped car. If you can squeeze it in, but he can't. DO IT! Yes this sucks, and yes this will destroy the fun to be had in lobbies. But it will also reveal the meta for what it is, when the meta gets revealed it gets fixed. If just one or two players are abusing it, nothing gets done.
The problem with sim racing is there is no consequences if you smash your car. If it was real they wouldn’t do it because writing off a 500,000 dollar race car isn’t worth it. Sim racing is like trying to compare airsoft to fighting in bakhmut.
Watch more real racing then. There is a lot of stupid contacts. Last Le Mans 24h lmp2 sent gt3 lead car into the wall on the straight line. And they got just some time penalty. Because it's racing and those situations happens even in real life.
"It was netcode" is the laziest excuse there is (unless there's *exceptional* netcode and two cars delete each other from 2 feet away, which there wasn't in this case). We all know netcode exists and should account for it. Do we need to get within six inches of the other car's bumper there. And he's likely gonna hit him anyway.
You don't know what youre talking about mate; if you ever get good enough to be in that split you'll see the pressure you have on you and the level you need to be at, yes we need live stewards but crashes happens its nords for 24h.
Crashes happen yes but dealing with pressure is part of any sport at any level, you need to be able to deal with it and these lads in this team keep cracking under that pressure by implementing poor driving standards and using exploits to win. It also shows a lack of maturity and taking out 2 leaders in another class in wholly avoidable incidents is a sign of that.
On the first overtake I say its more of a racing incident than full blame on Williams, for the main reason that the Mahle car looked like it was giving room to the GT3 and letting them past but at the same time wasnt giving enough room. They were slightly indecisive in what to do, but at the same time the Williams driver was going too fast and was expecting the driver to let them past, I think if the Mahle car commited to the normal line the Williams car might have slowed down more and stayed behind them. Most of the blame is still on Williams being the fsster car but the Mahle car isnt fully innocent imo.
The drivers know it’s the overtake rate of the slower classes that will put them in a good position, since their pace at that level is very similar. Live stewards needed.
I haven’t driven on iracing for a couple months minimum. Granted, part is I’ve focused on work but the iracing environment was so toxic I lost interest
Just because they a esports team (williams esports) does that mean that people HAVE to slow down and let them past because they esports players??? The team is a joke!!!!
At this point can we all just vote to get rid of Williams memesports? They are a catastrophy and a joke to the sim racing community, and it disgusts me how their behaviour is not changing.
which sponsor like this badass image? I would have been quit after Daytona... They have no sporsmanship. They are ash.. thats all I can say.. I'm speechless. What has to happen that they got a special event ban or such a thing?
Agree, i've been a meatball for the gt3 cars while racing the GR86 in the endurance series , no marshalls means no report in live timing , yes its a sim and im glad its not a real car crash however if we do this for fun and get oppressed by sponsored drivers that have no regard to other drivers no matter thier level because thy have to meet a certain standard that's just wrong.
Another iracing shit show. Net code contacts still happening is an absolute joke. Because it makes the stream look better.... who cares if you can't get near another car to "race" Also having no live stewerds is just bizzare... surely they can afford to even pay some people to do these big events
It sucks to see how badly this team races other teams/drivers in general. Not just in special events, I've seen some clips of the drivers doing this just to gain irating in regular races.
If a team "hits" another car surely they would have damage and be forced to stop. The fact is netcode has been trash in iRacing for years. Why are you blaming the team when garbage netcode is the problem?
Netcode isn't an excuse for what was and is poor driving and just a lack of consideration for others also running their own race. It happened twice and the team has recent history of poor driving standards and sportsmanship.
Only thing I am seeing is terrible netcode. First instance he was so far away when the netcode went bad that we will never know if there would be enough space later as the GT4 car was on a wide line. 2nd one wasn't a hit in any way. Even though I'd say the first incident was far too risky anyways, you can't bash Williams for iRacing's terrible netcode
I think netcode needs a good hard look over, I would rather have true positioning of cars over a highly smoothed out netcode, it's masking too much to drive close. Save the smoothing for the live broadcast.
There’s no such thing as ‘true positioning’, hence why netcode is required. The only absolute position is your vehicle on your computer. The position of other vehicles is only true in the sense that it essentially exists in a position calculated from the last confirmed location, plus an prediction of where the netcode thinks the vehicle will be. What we see as ‘netcode’ is the adjustment made when the confirmed position is significantly different to the one that was predicted.
It does but as the other gentleman has said its not that easy and we have to accept that if we are racing people from all corners of the world then it will always exist in some form. There's a reason why FPS games group you into regions and don't pair you with players from across the world as the ping/netcode is too severe.
Not always and not all netcode is the same level. The first of these incidents there was most definitely going to be contact regardless. The second one maybe not but it was still unnecessary to get that close
@@stuffeyy While I agree with you generally speaking, I think this fear of netcode really kills iRacing in my view. It's supposed to be the leading racing sim but the only thing that really makes racing fun and engaging to watch and experience is completely negated, turning almost every top race into a hotlap competition.
Shame AGAIN on Williams eSports Team for their dirty behaviors in the SimRacing World and beeing so arrogant about that on Social Media via Jenson Button for example ! They should received some sort of punishment even if there is a lot of money at stake. iRacing is a joke for not providing live Stewards on this kind of Events. You want to be the Best ? Do your best !
I really don’t think the first was a blatant disregard for the GT4’s race; they over estimated the speed of the car in front and wrecked them. Racing incident… however; unless different rules have been specified, it is down to the faster car to pass when safe and the slower car is under NO obligation to move out the way. The BEST thing for a slower car to do is, stay on line and allow the faster car passes when safe. The GT3 (should) know this, so it was completely avoidable and not necessary. The whole idea of racing is to look down the track so that you can see where you need to be and predict potential accidents. At this level, lack of awareness is inexcusable.
Sooner or later other teams will get fed up and start returning the favor! If you have 2 or 3 drivers on the track and Williams eSports took out one of your teammates while he was leading, it won't take much to "accidentally" take Williams out of a race while in a slower class car who's no longer in the race. We all saw it with F1 and the guy everyone thought was cheating . Players eventually got fed up and wrecked into him ruining some of his races! Williams needs to understand it's great to be on top! Although when you're on top it's a long way down when you fall!!
1st one was not gonna happen without netcode so no idea why you're even talking about it. And the 2nd one wasn't a complete williams kill, it was more of a racing incident than anything. Like others have said if another team did this I doubt it would be getting anywhere near as much publicity and whole videos made on why they need to be ''stopped''. Just don't see the point in videos like this, it changes nothing and you're causing more unnecessary arguments from it.
So would you rather we all stay quiet and let this type of driving go unpunished and be replicated by others? If there are no in game stewards to penalise them then they need to be called out for it. The reason for the title is because they have previous and I have called out Team Redline for using an exploit to gain an unfair advantage previously too, so regardless of team if I see it, I'll call it out.
The first GT4 car opened the door which he shouldnt have, invited the GT3 car to pass. Now you cannot pass there safely so GT3 should have waited. But lets not overlook that the GT4 did open the door.
If you ban every team that hit other car because of iracing bad netcode there will be only one car racing (because they would not be able to hit someone else)
If you can have it streamed with commentators, then you can have at least one steward. I do wonder though if the iRacing service is capable of applying penalties outside of the automatic stuff which a steward would need. It's a shame the driver of the punted car wasn't someone like Verstappen as you'd certainly never hear the last of it.
iRacing needs Live Stewards for top split Special Events!!!
It's not like that is really asking a lot either
iRacing doesn’t have this? I am surprised, seeing other sims have at least that. Live Stewarding could help change outcomes greatly.
Daytona 24 they used the whole track. iRacing said "you can't park there sir" and so now they're resorting to a scorched earth policy. Sad really as I used to look up to these guys.
Netcode was the main factor. Live stewards will punish what? The air between the cars?! 😂
@@valter_vava74 ah yes a Williams fanboy enters the chat.
I was the GT4 that „lost it on the curb“. It was not me losing the car definatly. I had 30h of practice and we were leading by over a minute. I know how to keep the car on track on my own 😅 there was netcode touch that was very very avoidable by Williams. We were robbed there.
Yep i thought so. It was evident to see that the car only lost control once the porsche came up right onto your rear. Total disregard for everyone else racing, they had a sufficient lead and couldve waited a touch longer to pass safely. Feel for you and the team buddy.
thats the hight of arrogance they should be banned from esports in general imo. imagine if they done that in real life
Netcode is netcode right? Hard to blame the team when there's clear daylight between the cars at contact.
@@jacobdanielharrington Pro Simracers know where netcodes will appear and have to avoid them. Not only for others but for themselves. After spending hundreds of hours on the sim you can blame others for mistakes like that
Fully agree!! The top split that's getting televised seriously needs to be live marshalled. iRacing have already proved that they can run multiple 24hr race instances simultaneously without crashing (unlike rFactor), but now they need to step up and live marshal that televised split.
Yep 100% top split needs live stewards now
Thank you for bringing this to light, mate. I had such a sour taste in my mouth after Daytona 24, especially when Jenson Button got involved on twitter... It seems they have learned nothing and are entirely set on winning by any means necessary and then will block those who call them out - or get their big names to defend them. It's really putting a stain on Sim Racing. Big dogs pushing the little guys with zero consequences and then get to brag about winning to their sponsors, it's a joke.
👍🏻
f1 esports had cheating this year, a Williams esport driver got caught having cheats on stream, Williams in iracing keep getting away with their dirty driving's, their lack of sportsmanship, and they seem to get away with anything they do, Esports is losing its integrity
I remember this and he played it off as that he was testing them for EA/Codemasters 🤦🏻♂️ They have a very young team and management and I think it shows. A small mindedness of the wider implications of their actions
that is absolutely disgusting. like rule 1 faster class/car has the responsibility of passing slower class in a safe manner. UNREAL!
Says its netcode but onward with blaming Williams
williams esports started blocking people on twitter for pointing it out
I see that. Probably to hide the comments from sponsors
@@stuffeyy blocking people doesn't hide the comments. i still get notifications of people liking it
My opinion on the incidents are, that they were avoidable, but still racing incidents.
The first one (which was btw Pflanzgarten 2 into the Stefan-Bellof-S, not Foxhole like you said), was more avoidable and the driver should have known that it is a tough section and to better overtake in the latter part of the section (braking zone for the Schwalbenschwanz section).
The second one was at Wippermann and there I have to say, that with what we have seen in the clips we can't decide what has happend. The GT4 could've lifted a bit early, the PCup driver was a bit too fast and drifted out a tiny bit too much. Contact was made, both into the wall.
Both incidents boil down to inexperience on the Nordschleife. And there I'm happy not being in the Top Split anymore for these special events.
Because there are so many drivers that just don't know the track how the Top Split NEC drivers do.
I've been driving in the NEC from season 1 (it is season 8 right now) in slower cars and there are only like a dozen drivers I trust blind to pass me without me having to even look into the mirror and the pass is made with little to no time loss. You don't get that from people that drive on the Nordschleife maybe twice a year at most - even with 9k+ iRating.
Williams eSports are just the clowns of simracing in 2023, we learned that after Daytona and with no real punishment ever coming from it, they'll just keep going like nothing happened.
cry about it
Having live stewards for the special events would be fantastic! However at the very least, since it’s somewhat impractical to cover every split, the top split should always include live stewards. Williams, RedBull, these professional teams need proper governing and should be held to the highest standards. It’s a good move for iRacing and the entire sim community, but it also greatly improves the marketability of e-racing as a professional sport worthy of building a fan-base, and attracting sponsors.
Can you imagine the chaos that would ensue if F1, or IMSA or WEC, NASCAR, Indy Car or any other professional motorsports series did away with live stewards?
If iRacing is going to go through the trouble to create, build and promote sim racing as a professional sport, by association with professional drivers, teams, manufacturers, tracks and series, why risk gumming it all up by obfuscating the need and frankly, very simple fix, of including live stewards? Especially for the top splits with the professional teams?
Iracing should drop esports as it does more harm than good with the win at all costs mentality. This filters down to the lower splits where some drivers use Williams esports examples or worse the stupid senna saying to justify their lack of racecraft/sportsmanship. 99% of users just want a clean race without the toxicity that has plagued this awesome hobby
They can't drop eSports as technically the top split special events aren't closed Esports events. Anyone with enough skill and time could reach a high enough level to compete in them. While that is the case tho, the teams clearly place a lot of value on winning these events and as such are taking advantage of there being no live stewards and employing poor driving tactics with a win at all costs mentality. This needs to change
lmao can't drop esports
@stuffeyy yeah good point, live stewarding would go a long way to reducing these issues.
I guess they'll only listen when they notice subscriptions declining as there seems to be it ain't broke so why bother fixing it approach
I've seen more respectful driving on LFM. If you're being lapped in the same class, then you need to be the one not interfering in someone else's race - sometimes how to do it can be the most difficult thing in Sim Racing, particularly on twisty circuits, but in multiclass even I know that it's down to the faster car to overtake safely.
You missed they almost killed a TCR in the last corner too. They got damage on the suspension for sure.
As an avid sim racer im getting fed up of Williams Esports bending the rules to their advantage. If this happens again they should be banned because they do not deserve these wins when they use parts of tracks they shouldn't and they crash people out on purpose. Live stewarding would solve this hopefully and they will stop acting in this way. If someone took williams out in a race they would make sure other people got punished, but when it's them they keep their mouth shut
Very true. They would be the first to protest I assume, teams/people like this like to dish it out but not receive
I honestly don't understand why the top split doesn't get live stewarded. I mean no one expects them to steward all splits which would be really unrealistic to pull off but come on why not just the top split? I mean every small acc league has live stewarding...
Since they can't use the whole track anymore they've decided on scorched earth tactics XD
I agree. People drive this way at all levels sadly. You would think at the highest level it would be taken more serious when it comes to racecraft. All those teams care about is pace and lap time, not racecraft.
yeah top splits need live stewards. as some one thats in the VERY bottom i have no issues if only the top 2 or 3 splits get them
Same, top split is broadcasted and has the biggest names/teams racing. It's more likely to end up in publics eye so should be treated more professionally IMO
I agree that iRacing needs live stewarding for at least the 1st Split but the rest of the video is just bad.
You are blaming a whole organisation for 1 netcode hit and 1 racing incident. Have you seen how many other people got killed in that race??
You are saying they need to act by example but you as a "influencer" (even if a smaller one) also have to act accordingly. For me you are just trying to take advantage of some beef that exploded on twitter. Thats caused by people that have no clue and only watched the race because of Verstappen.
Milking views by a beef created by people that have no idea or that were biased towards BS. Quite poor if you ask me.
If Williams didn't want people to thirst for their blood, they shouldn't have made a habit of dirty racing. Nobody cares about which specific team demonstrates these patterns of behavior, only that one particular team does.
Spare me the whinging whataboutism over Redline or whatever. Who cares about teams that don't have a track record of pulling these stunts? If they decide to learn from Williams' examples, they'll deserve just as much heat.
@@breadm2089 I agree with you that Williams did dirty things at daytona24 but also there you should remember that BS Competition did a similar thing with taking a "dead" lmdh and giving their GT3 tow.
The Qualy and what Spetz did are totally not okay and a harsh penalty has been given. So for me there has been 1 dirty "move" for which they got a very hardh punishment. Time to move on from that and dont tell people at every incident that includes williams that they are bad people.
Both incidents occured due to poor driving and a lack of consideration for the other teams/drivers. Netcode is not a valid excuse as it wouldnt have occured if they were so reckless. This team has now been seen to act in a manner that lacks sportsmanship multiple times and in most cases would result in mid race penalties and even DQs.
What I am trying to do is bring light to the fact sim racing is growing, it is becoming more popular to the public and driving like this and then celebrating the win is poor. I have also called out Redline for trying to use an exploit in the past so this isn't bias or trying to stir up beef. I hate cheats and want to see fair racing and the more people make light of the poor driving, shady tactics, cheating will only drive the powers that be to implement changes.
@@stuffeyy I've seen closer footage of the incident with BS. The contact would not have happened without the 0.5m netcode. And the 2nd incident is a racing incident, you cant blame the whole of williams eSports for that.
In a race where it is that close you have to get quite close to the boundaries. That the Williams car doesnt go chilling and loses 2-3 seconds unnecessarily behind a GT4 should be obvious.
The only "lack of sportsmanship" has been Daytona 24 Qualy and they got punished heavily for it. Idk what people like you see in these incidents or want to see in them.
Hey, i am the Teammanager of CARLAR esports (P4 TCR an this time) and i can tell you that most all of the GT3 Teams are driving hard. This GT3 Problem is not new. We had also a lot of those moments but lucky survive. Until 2h left a GT3 Team gabe us an divebomb at Mutkurve. Alsp unnessassry.
Good vid completely agree with everything
I think targeting Williams in this instance is VERY unfair, did they kill people.. Yes. Did all of the other GT3 teams do the same if not worse?!
I get that creating a video targeting Williams specifically is a good way to get clicks & engagement given the lack of trust the community has in them presently, but this should have been a conversation about ALL of the top split teams and some of the things they're willing to do to succeed in the broadcast special events.
Overall iRacing need to bring in Live Stewarding & Cautions to these events to stop these careless incidents and stop it from being a 24 hour sprint race.
Having had teams in each of the top 3 splits for this race I can say, it was no better in those than it was in top split....
Honestly Williams Esports have been such a joke this year... First that Daytona 24h and now this... Frauds
It's hasn't been good for them. The manner in which they win has been appalling
Williams should care about their reputation a little more than race results. iRacing absolutely have no excuse for no live stewarding in top split. Makes our sport look terrible. Not to mention how this encourages others to act, top split sets an example.
Agree 💯 they think it's win at all costs at that no one will notice how they won it which is just as important
this why we need proper physics models too. a car doing that irl would be fucked.
If Williams Esports is so Professional or Skilled, why can't they properly race? Before this it was the Daytona debacle and now this bullshit.
I understand Williams eSports set their self at a high expectation as a professional team. Coming from a former iRacing WCS F1 driver whos represented other top teams, this is not acceptable. This does not show good sportsmanship and craftsmanship in any shape or form. Not only were those the incidents but also GT3 Williams did the same move on the inside as their P Cup car to Wave Italys P Cup car. It was so Williams P Cup car had the advantage to overtake another car and take a top position. I have never seen such incidents like this in iRacing and I come from a time when everyone was good sports and professional in the top divisions. iRacing needs to step up and set examples with what happens when there are moves like this pulled in races. It is their community and sim. We pay to have fun and race on their sim after all.
Very much a win at all costs mentality. It indicates a young team and management that are not aware of the wider implications and image that comes with their actions. Other esports pro's are also calling them out for this and means that Williams now has a dodgy reputation.
Hi Scott, just to inform you that the Emilia Romagna GP won’t go ahead this season due to flooding from the nearby river.
lol. Risky move, but only because it’s iRacing. There was a quarter width of a car between them, so strike another notch on the phantom of iRacing 😂
At the Nordschleife, it is all about mutual respect on track. One of the few tracks where it is very normal to compromise your racing line as a slower car to let the faster car by. Because otherwise you might get stuck behind a slower car for quite some while. In the sporting code of the VLN series they actually mention signs of flashing lights and what the slower car is supposed to do in those situations.
The following applies to all overtaking maneuvers:
-Cars flashing to the left "drives/remains on the left side!"
-Cars flashing to the right "drives/remains on the right side!"
-No flashing light " The car remains on the racing line!"
It is not a Williams Esports issue. There have actually been quite some incidents on track, some worse than these two. So to label Williams Esports as the bad guys is a bit too much here. 11 GT3s started - only 6 made it to the finish. The Porsche Cup was even worse, ONLY 3 out of the 11 made it out of the green hell alive. It is just overall a very difficult event because everyone is on the edge and the event is approached as a simracing event and not a real one. So yes, the special events need live stewarding in top split but Williams Esports is not predominantly responsible for aggressive driving.
Yea and I think it's more organizers and stewards fault than Williams racing. The only dirty thing they did was blocking opponents with their second car in Daytona 24h. Even their cheating in Daytona quali was more iracing or stewards fault. Because everyone knew they did invalid lap (according to rules) but no one penaltized them. All motorsport is about finding ways to break rules without getting penaltized.
And in this N24h event their first crash was Williams mistake, yes. But it's mistake everyone can do. They should get penalty for it but you can't ban or kick team because they hit other car. And second one was pure iracing netcode issue, when game thinks you crashed even if there is big gap between cars.
It's iracing who should do something with it. Like bringing better system to give drivers penalties during the race etc.
I got blocked by them on twitter after Daytona lol
agree, but the first crash was not fuchsröhre, it *is steffan bellof s*
Both crashs could've been avoided by thee williams team, i don't get it, why they don't have live Stewards for the top splits.
Started a discussion thread on this issue in the iRacing forums and after a few days, the thread no longer exists.
Interesting
At this point I can't even blame the driver's, this has clearly shown that it's management issue. Management is the part of the team that teaches the team what is to be expected of them, not just in terms of performance but in their behavior both on and off the track. It's clearly evident that Williams eSports emphasizes winning at all cost and everybody else be damned, even if it brings the whole event and community down. It doesn't matter because they won.
"Sweep the leg" racing
@@that44rdv4rk maybe we don't need live stewards then, just the Karate Kid and his crane kick KO haha
It starts at the top as they say, and by blocking people on socials who are rightfully calling them out their driving standards and approach to these events shows that it's all about that W regardless of how they win it
Why can't you blame the drivers? They are holding the steering wheel!
lol williams
why don't the rest of the teams just congregate and nominate a driver to punt the Williams team to Mars first opportunity. Done. I'll do it.
Just my two cents, as a top split driver on another platform, I believe this isn't as big of an issue as it is made out to be. You guys need to change your attitude to the rules. Not to the winners. Yes these two crashes were Williams fault. But as much as you know it is their fault, you also know that there is no penalty for these kinds of accidents. Therefore it is on you to make sure you are never on the receiving end of these accidents. You also need to make sure that you do not hold back when it is you that is overtaking a lapped car. If you can squeeze it in, but he can't. DO IT! Yes this sucks, and yes this will destroy the fun to be had in lobbies. But it will also reveal the meta for what it is, when the meta gets revealed it gets fixed. If just one or two players are abusing it, nothing gets done.
iRacing needs to fix their netcode. For the amount of money people are forced to spend on that game, that should be a rare happening, not expected.
IRacing Top Splits = Bunch of hot lappers with zero race craft.
eSports is the worst thing that could have happened sim racing.
I disagree but it needs cleaning up and better management as at the moment if you don't apply shady driving tactics you are not going to win.
0:18 LOL. That's shocking
Let's see Jenson Button try to defend this.
Looks like net code to me. But why let the facts get in the way of click bait
The problem with sim racing is there is no consequences if you smash your car. If it was real they wouldn’t do it because writing off a 500,000 dollar race car isn’t worth it. Sim racing is like trying to compare airsoft to fighting in bakhmut.
Watch more real racing then. There is a lot of stupid contacts. Last Le Mans 24h lmp2 sent gt3 lead car into the wall on the straight line. And they got just some time penalty. Because it's racing and those situations happens even in real life.
"It was netcode" is the laziest excuse there is (unless there's *exceptional* netcode and two cars delete each other from 2 feet away, which there wasn't in this case). We all know netcode exists and should account for it. Do we need to get within six inches of the other car's bumper there. And he's likely gonna hit him anyway.
But if the game registrs car contact when there is a big gap between cars it is netcode and legit excuse for the drivers.
agreed
Daytona24, F1 esports, and now N24. What's next? LeMans??? 😂😂😂😂😂😂
This is the same Esports Team which was in the Daytona 24h Controversy?
You don't know what youre talking about mate; if you ever get good enough to be in that split you'll see the pressure you have on you and the level you need to be at, yes we need live stewards but crashes happens its nords for 24h.
Crashes happen yes but dealing with pressure is part of any sport at any level, you need to be able to deal with it and these lads in this team keep cracking under that pressure by implementing poor driving standards and using exploits to win. It also shows a lack of maturity and taking out 2 leaders in another class in wholly avoidable incidents is a sign of that.
On the first overtake I say its more of a racing incident than full blame on Williams, for the main reason that the Mahle car looked like it was giving room to the GT3 and letting them past but at the same time wasnt giving enough room. They were slightly indecisive in what to do, but at the same time the Williams driver was going too fast and was expecting the driver to let them past, I think if the Mahle car commited to the normal line the Williams car might have slowed down more and stayed behind them. Most of the blame is still on Williams being the fsster car but the Mahle car isnt fully innocent imo.
I drive like this - but that's why I only race against AI.
The drivers know it’s the overtake rate of the slower classes that will put them in a good position, since their pace at that level is very similar. Live stewards needed.
I haven’t driven on iracing for a couple months minimum. Granted, part is I’ve focused on work but the iracing environment was so toxic I lost interest
The first incident was netcode by the looks of it, and the second one is just an unlucky incident IMO.
Bit of netcode in the second incident too I think, looks like the slower car is unsettled by "contact" when there's space between them
Just because they a esports team (williams esports) does that mean that people HAVE to slow down and let them past because they esports players???
The team is a joke!!!!
Why is it always them when there is something controversial
It's a mindset now and longer a one off or coincidence
At this point can we all just vote to get rid of Williams memesports? They are a catastrophy and a joke to the sim racing community, and it disgusts me how their behaviour is not changing.
I've lost almost all my respect for the Williams brand
I always see williams esports in some drama after these big sim racing events
Williams only response to this has been to block everyone who complains about it
This is what happens when children, age not withstanding, are put behind the wheel.
agree all true stuffeyy ban them for ever
which sponsor like this badass image? I would have been quit after Daytona... They have no sporsmanship. They are ash.. thats all I can say.. I'm speechless. What has to happen that they got a special event ban or such a thing?
So iracing still wont do anythinf about them ? Both sides are to blame if they wont do anything about it
iRacing and netcode go by the hand. It is just a terrible sim managing that
Agree, i've been a meatball for the gt3 cars while racing the GR86 in the endurance series , no marshalls means no report in live timing , yes its a sim and im glad its not a real car crash however if we do this for fun and get oppressed by sponsored drivers that have no regard to other drivers no matter thier level because thy have to meet a certain standard that's just wrong.
Sorry but I have no love for esports. I think it’s the worst thing to happen to simracing.
These teams should be setting an example to the rest of us and not having live stewards on a Esports event does seem a bit stupid
Crazy majority of the esports Tom foolery happens in iracing with no live Stewart’s for their huge events.
Another iracing shit show. Net code contacts still happening is an absolute joke. Because it makes the stream look better.... who cares if you can't get near another car to "race"
Also having no live stewerds is just bizzare... surely they can afford to even pay some people to do these big events
It sucks to see how badly this team races other teams/drivers in general. Not just in special events, I've seen some clips of the drivers doing this just to gain irating in regular races.
How they still get away with it? HOW?! Just because they’re representing a big team? Wtf...
If a team "hits" another car surely they would have damage and be forced to stop.
The fact is netcode has been trash in iRacing for years.
Why are you blaming the team when garbage netcode is the problem?
Because it's not mandated that both cars are damaged. Even a 2 kph difference bump can send someone into the wall
Netcode isn't an excuse for what was and is poor driving and just a lack of consideration for others also running their own race. It happened twice and the team has recent history of poor driving standards and sportsmanship.
This contact was happening 0.03 seconds later even if there was no netcode
@@stuffeyy It absolutely is an excuse when the cars hit but are half a meter away from each other.
Only thing I am seeing is terrible netcode. First instance he was so far away when the netcode went bad that we will never know if there would be enough space later as the GT4 car was on a wide line. 2nd one wasn't a hit in any way. Even though I'd say the first incident was far too risky anyways, you can't bash Williams for iRacing's terrible netcode
People just like to hate someone so they would gladly do this if someone just points finger to other person without even thinking with their own head
I think netcode needs a good hard look over, I would rather have true positioning of cars over a highly smoothed out netcode, it's masking too much to drive close. Save the smoothing for the live broadcast.
There’s no such thing as ‘true positioning’, hence why netcode is required. The only absolute position is your vehicle on your computer.
The position of other vehicles is only true in the sense that it essentially exists in a position calculated from the last confirmed location, plus an prediction of where the netcode thinks the vehicle will be. What we see as ‘netcode’ is the adjustment made when the confirmed position is significantly different to the one that was predicted.
It does but as the other gentleman has said its not that easy and we have to accept that if we are racing people from all corners of the world then it will always exist in some form. There's a reason why FPS games group you into regions and don't pair you with players from across the world as the ping/netcode is too severe.
It's genuinely impossible to come by a crash in iRacing that isn't influenced by netcode.
Not always and not all netcode is the same level. The first of these incidents there was most definitely going to be contact regardless. The second one maybe not but it was still unnecessary to get that close
@@stuffeyy While I agree with you generally speaking, I think this fear of netcode really kills iRacing in my view. It's supposed to be the leading racing sim but the only thing that really makes racing fun and engaging to watch and experience is completely negated, turning almost every top race into a hotlap competition.
@@danielebrambilla2290 Don't think ping matters in ACC? At least in iRacing you get disconnected for having too poor of a connection.
@@shardhoney ACC has its own issues, such as rubberbanding and random disconnections, but I don't think netcode has ever been one of them.
How do we hold them accountable?
great video scott!
all those guys need too be banned from the platform ..
iracing does not care iracing it,s the way to make money
Shame AGAIN on Williams eSports Team for their dirty behaviors in the SimRacing World and beeing so arrogant about that on Social Media via Jenson Button for example ! They should received some sort of punishment even if there is a lot of money at stake. iRacing is a joke for not providing live Stewards on this kind of Events. You want to be the Best ? Do your best !
isnt mahle racing kinda williams sister team even
They used to be. Now they are with BS+ Competition
these guys need a dry slap🤣
Feels Bad Man
I really don’t think the first was a blatant disregard for the GT4’s race; they over estimated the speed of the car in front and wrecked them. Racing incident… however; unless different rules have been specified, it is down to the faster car to pass when safe and the slower car is under NO obligation to move out the way. The BEST thing for a slower car to do is, stay on line and allow the faster car passes when safe. The GT3 (should) know this, so it was completely avoidable and not necessary. The whole idea of racing is to look down the track so that you can see where you need to be and predict potential accidents. At this level, lack of awareness is inexcusable.
Ive left iracing, the sim needs some serious changes. Sticking to AC, ACC, Raceroom GTR2 Race 07
no one cares
@@RichyPink you seem to care by commenting, snowflake.
@@RichyPink i care
Sooner or later other teams will get fed up and start returning the favor!
If you have 2 or 3 drivers on the track and Williams eSports took out one of your teammates while he was leading, it won't take much to "accidentally" take Williams out of a race while in a slower class car who's no longer in the race.
We all saw it with F1 and the guy everyone thought was cheating . Players eventually got fed up and wrecked into him ruining some of his races!
Williams needs to understand it's great to be on top! Although when you're on top it's a long way down when you fall!!
common williams L
1st one was not gonna happen without netcode so no idea why you're even talking about it. And the 2nd one wasn't a complete williams kill, it was more of a racing incident than anything. Like others have said if another team did this I doubt it would be getting anywhere near as much publicity and whole videos made on why they need to be ''stopped''. Just don't see the point in videos like this, it changes nothing and you're causing more unnecessary arguments from it.
So would you rather we all stay quiet and let this type of driving go unpunished and be replicated by others? If there are no in game stewards to penalise them then they need to be called out for it. The reason for the title is because they have previous and I have called out Team Redline for using an exploit to gain an unfair advantage previously too, so regardless of team if I see it, I'll call it out.
I hope the driver gets protested and banned that was absolutely horrendous
The first GT4 car opened the door which he shouldnt have, invited the GT3 car to pass. Now you cannot pass there safely so GT3 should have waited. But lets not overlook that the GT4 did open the door.
I totally agree. Stewards and ban to Williams Esports...and iRacing is a monetizing joke with total superficiality and that's why I don't play it.
If you ban every team that hit other car because of iracing bad netcode there will be only one car racing (because they would not be able to hit someone else)
@@superstar5042 This is not netcode...please...
average Forza rammer
"IT WAS NETCODE" 🤡🤡
If you can have it streamed with commentators, then you can have at least one steward. I do wonder though if the iRacing service is capable of applying penalties outside of the automatic stuff which a steward would need.
It's a shame the driver of the punted car wasn't someone like Verstappen as you'd certainly never hear the last of it.