In the late sixties I had to do with 657's of the first series . They had a pony motor to start the tractor engine . Starting was no problem , turning the engine to build up heat could be done until it started . The rear engine had a hydromotor for starting , so the same way . Now we moved 50 years on and for starting we need starting fluid . I can't understand . Johan7 , the Netherlands
@vantagetes Exactly right, the other thing is that with the low cranking speed and thick cold oil the dragging of pistons up and down a dry bore is damaging them, in cold weather you want it to crank up to low idle ASAP. When i completed my apprenticeship at the local Cat dealer we did a few months in the dyno and every engine got fired up with a sniff of starter motor in a can. Ether is not a problem for diesel engines, someone over using it is though.
I like the fact that it's so cold, the rear engine sounds and looks like it's under strain (turbo spool and black smoke). Not that I know how it SHOULD sound and look but still. Nice vid as always. :)
@mgmg385 We don't like to start anything when it's that cold but if we are running 24/7 (two shifts) and don't have to turn anything off we will keep going. We generally won't start anything under -25*. Anything under freezing requires a lot of ripping unless you can move the dirt fast enough that it can't freeze. Definately a lot more planning involved.
@Stokeypower 15-20 mins but sometimes 30-45 mins at a high idle to let your oils somewhat warm up. What you can't really hear in these videos is that a scraper transmission sounds like its full of rocks when its cold.
@bekiil Yes both engines are used while hauling as well. As a rule of thumb you should let off on the back motor in corners as it will push the front around but otherwise you keep both those pedals right to the floor.
worked on a spread with 15 651b's and the temperature got down to -50 wind chill -72 . one guy held the glow plugs while the other pulled the air cleaner and it took a whole can of ether . Grave yard was first shift and we spent the whole time starting all the equipment . Pony motor engines were definitely the worst
@redheadedduckhunter Every 500 hours. There are EVAC points in the little door under the air filters so you don't have to drop the belly pan and remove the drainplug. It's got a quick connect fitting and the lube truck has a vacuum pump. Just hook up the hose and it sucks it all out!
Most of the bad things you hear about ether are old myths that just won't die. Some diesels even have ether injection systems from the factory for cold starts.
They aren't myths, Much more volatile than diesel fuel, its like gasoline, and much like gasoline has no lubrication. Bad for injectors, bad for pistons and rings, and with extended use is bad for rods.
K1ll3rM4st3r When you spray a bit of ether in the intake the injectors don't magically stop spraying fuel. There is still lubrication present. If you tried to use ether for an extended period to keep an engine running it may cause problems, but as a starter assist its not going to hurt anything.
@vantagetes I've seen on cat site only specifics models have ether shots from the factory. they recommand ether shots while cranking and not before. as i know the rings do not like ether on diesel engines. i don't understand why cat allow and do it . no glow plugs on this one in the video ?
seen a rookie keep both engines wide open during a sharp turn, fuckin hilarious watching his cab bounce, something I'll never forget lol Love the vid, nothing a little Ether can't fix and nothing like the sound of squeeling belts on a cold day, I broke the apron cylinder in half once, it was -20 and stripping overburden off of a gravel pit in Wabamun, had it up n running in no time, machine loses a lot of cash per hour, gotta love, meck-a-nicks lol
@abyssunderground Most heavy equipment will have some sort of cold weather start aid if it was originally sent to a cold climate. Because of the boom up here a lot of the scrapers around here were purchased from California where there used to be lots of scraper work but not so much anymore.
Glow plugs create a weak point in the combustion chamber. Large diesels usually have grid heaters which heat up the air in the intake so the engine sucks in warm air when you start it.
@redheadedduckhunter It's a combination of the engine being big, the top of the engine being about knee height, and the oil pan being waaaaaaaaaaaay down below.
@vantagetes hahaha yup, man I miss those days, right nowwith it being cold I would have been out in the patch, and come spring time back in the city, but I am going to running grader this summer and really looking forward to it, it's been 6 long years
@vantagetes The guys I work with will start a scraper up and take off with no warmup like driving a car. These guys will shut a scraper down after running hard without letting it cool off. If they are running a dozer they don't believe in using the decelerator either just throw it in reverse without stopping the machine.
@25mfd Hell no! Tim Hortons on the dash of the truck is the cornerstone. Gotta get this lineup of machines started then I can sit and enjoy the coffee!
Between the kid using his grimy, sandy and totally trashed glove to swipe the dipstick off and the massive amount of ether, I suspect that the engine life is probably cut by a third.
man I could not believe the amount of either he was spraying in the air inlet, if my grandpa saw me do that on our farm/truck equipment he would give me a good verbal ass chewing. either dries out the cylinder walls and can cause scouring.
@wheelin1 You forgot that awesome BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP sound from the low air alarm, although I guess that horrid thing goes off when it's warm too.
A little rough on the dipstick, but then again its efing cold out. Are the engines that big that it needs 2 miles of dipstick or is made that way so its easier to remove?
@kurlis How would it be cheating? You can get ether injection systems on the machines straight from the factory. Without the cold start aid it would crank for a longggggggg time damaging the starting system and require you to boost every machine.
@dicin29 This is the Burnout.... I would love it if you would keep up the spam. I am in need of a new "asshole" video for this month. You sir are in the front running.
Well I never ran any of these. My Father did during the Korean War. They had the Brigs pony motor they cranked first then engaged it & it started the CAT. but I ran many Diesels 31 yrs over the Rd. & If you don't have any Either ! Get some Gas on a Rag & Place it over the intake & it will do the Same Thing...
i am suprised the cab doesnt have starter controls for both engines, i see them being started @ the engine. or maybe they do have hte controls in cab as well?, ive seen many of the dual engine scrapers around, this always made me wonder
@vantagetes How often do your mechanics have to change the oil? When you guys do have to change it it must take alot. hmmmm...thats probably why the oil prices go up ;)
Well I don't know for sure if that was the coldest day you guys started it up on, but I'm sure that it wasn't too happy with the greeting that it. Got.
there's no fucken way you should have gotten away with that much juice to that engine, I've done this before he was born. I can't believe he done that.
Hi vantagetes, Really interesting video, even though the engineer was freezing his nuts off! He never did say unless it was edited out, whether there was any oil in there? Take care, mrbluenun
Apparently no one here's a diesel mechanic with any sort of experience. NEVER use ether on an engine with glow plugs. Lucky so far, wait until the glow plug ignights the fuel/ether on the up swing. Yeah the piston, rod and all just quickly go the other way blowing out your lower end.
You can use ether on an engine with glow plugs just make sure you don't run the glow plugs at the same time or else you'll blow the plugs out of the head or worse
HerroRya let's think about this for a minute. Plugs can withstand the pressure of combustion during normal operation but all of a sudden if there is pre-detonation they will fall out? I don't think so.
Glow plug can ignite the ether when the piston is half way up on the compression stroke while another cylinder is on the combustion stroke moving down. The first cylinder firing too early means it's trying to go the wrong way and you can bend a rod, crack the piston, blow the head off, and/or ruin the block. It's best to use one or the other. If the battery isn't that great it's best to unplug the glowplug relay so there's no chance of it igniting the ether.
would have used cold start button for both engines before spraying raw ether into motor, too hard on engine, or plug into light plant and run block heater for 3-4 hours at least
@vantagetes I am not saying it is the right thing, but that is the mentality of the people on my job. Not very many speak english and more than likely using a fake social security number too.
thebigguy more power! Push pull scrapers load link together and load up one at a time while running 2-3 rd gear. Hands down the fastest most efficient way to move dirt
@dicin29 What are you, 5? I'm not going to do the "did not, did too" arguement with you. If you don't want us to make fun of you, then keep the comments related to our content. Easy enough?
yeah dont kick any of the snow out of the way just bend the shit out of the cover and tear the dipstick out as fast as you can and bend the shit out of that too and while your at it
In the late sixties I had to do with 657's of the first series . They had a pony motor to start the tractor engine . Starting was no problem , turning the engine to build up heat could be done until it started . The rear engine had a hydromotor for starting , so the same way . Now we moved 50 years on and for starting we need starting fluid . I can't understand .
Johan7 , the Netherlands
I would have to agree with you on that.
@vantagetes Exactly right, the other thing is that with the low cranking speed and thick cold oil the dragging of pistons up and down a dry bore is damaging them, in cold weather you want it to crank up to low idle ASAP. When i completed my apprenticeship at the local Cat dealer we did a few months in the dyno and every engine got fired up with a sniff of starter motor in a can. Ether is not a problem for diesel engines, someone over using it is though.
I like the fact that it's so cold, the rear engine sounds and looks like it's under strain (turbo spool and black smoke). Not that I know how it SHOULD sound and look but still. Nice vid as always. :)
ETHER!
The CORNERSTONE of any successful cold start.
@mgmg385 We don't like to start anything when it's that cold but if we are running 24/7 (two shifts) and don't have to turn anything off we will keep going. We generally won't start anything under -25*. Anything under freezing requires a lot of ripping unless you can move the dirt fast enough that it can't freeze. Definately a lot more planning involved.
@Stokeypower 15-20 mins but sometimes 30-45 mins at a high idle to let your oils somewhat warm up. What you can't really hear in these videos is that a scraper transmission sounds like its full of rocks when its cold.
thats a serious piece of equipment man, what a machine
@bekiil Yes both engines are used while hauling as well. As a rule of thumb you should let off on the back motor in corners as it will push the front around but otherwise you keep both those pedals right to the floor.
worked on a spread with 15 651b's and the temperature got down to -50 wind chill -72 . one guy held the glow plugs while the other pulled the air cleaner and it took a whole can of ether . Grave yard was first shift and we spent the whole time starting all the equipment . Pony motor engines were definitely the worst
@redheadedduckhunter Every 500 hours. There are EVAC points in the little door under the air filters so you don't have to drop the belly pan and remove the drainplug. It's got a quick connect fitting and the lube truck has a vacuum pump. Just hook up the hose and it sucks it all out!
I like how he moves the can around like it matters. lol.
Most of the bad things you hear about ether are old myths that just won't die.
Some diesels even have ether injection systems from the factory for cold starts.
They aren't myths, Much more volatile than diesel fuel, its like gasoline, and much like gasoline has no lubrication. Bad for injectors, bad for pistons and rings, and with extended use is bad for rods.
K1ll3rM4st3r Sorry, not injectors i take that back, you spray it through the intake.
K1ll3rM4st3r When you spray a bit of ether in the intake the injectors don't magically stop spraying fuel. There is still lubrication present.
If you tried to use ether for an extended period to keep an engine running it may cause problems, but as a starter assist its not going to hurt anything.
Sweet as they start just fine 😊
it only took a whole can of summer time breeze to get it started
lol
IDreamOfDragons O n
Lysol so it smells better.
Wao! I didnt know those hade 2 motors!
Yep 627,637,657 are twin engine scrapers with the option of the push pull feature.
That's gotta be the longest dipstick i've ever seen!
@vantagetes
I've seen on cat site only specifics models have ether shots from the factory.
they recommand ether shots while cranking and not before.
as i know the rings do not like ether on diesel engines.
i don't understand why cat allow and do it .
no glow plugs on this one in the video ?
seen a rookie keep both engines wide open during a sharp turn, fuckin hilarious watching his cab bounce, something I'll never forget lol
Love the vid, nothing a little Ether can't fix and nothing like the sound of squeeling belts on a cold day, I broke the apron cylinder in half once, it was -20 and stripping overburden off of a gravel pit in Wabamun, had it up n running in no time, machine loses a lot of cash per hour, gotta love, meck-a-nicks lol
@abyssunderground Most heavy equipment will have some sort of cold weather start aid if it was originally sent to a cold climate. Because of the boom up here a lot of the scrapers around here were purchased from California where there used to be lots of scraper work but not so much anymore.
You got a dipstick thats cute i have a dip pole
Glow plugs create a weak point in the combustion chamber. Large diesels usually have grid heaters which heat up the air in the intake so the engine sucks in warm air when you start it.
Oil to the mile and a half mark?
@dhtvhe92 Yes a 3412 in the front and a 3408 in the back.
@redheadedduckhunter It's a combination of the engine being big, the top of the engine being about knee height, and the oil pan being waaaaaaaaaaaay down below.
Utterly well done, lads..
It surprises me that large diesels don't come with glow plugs, even if they're rarely used.
@vantagetes hahaha yup, man I miss those days, right nowwith it being cold I would have been out in the patch, and come spring time back in the city, but I am going to running grader this summer and really looking forward to it, it's been 6 long years
@Alexsslawncare Some of them have two engines. You see them in California everywhere. In Texas we usually have single engine scrapers here.
@vantagetes The guys I work with will start a scraper up and take off with no warmup like driving a car. These guys will shut a scraper down after running hard without letting it cool off. If they are running a dozer they don't believe in using the decelerator either just throw it in reverse without stopping the machine.
Что-то персонал для -30 С слабо одет, в кепке???
@25mfd Hell no! Tim Hortons on the dash of the truck is the cornerstone. Gotta get this lineup of machines started then I can sit and enjoy the coffee!
Yep!....It's called a guy in the cab turning the key!
that's right give it the go go juice
batteries ou moteur de lancement ???
Between the kid using his grimy, sandy and totally trashed glove to swipe the dipstick off and the massive amount of ether, I suspect that the engine life is probably cut by a third.
Considering they're e models , I'd say you're wrong. They've been around for quite some time
man I could not believe the amount of either he was spraying in the air inlet, if my grandpa saw me do that on our farm/truck equipment he would give me a good verbal ass chewing. either dries out the cylinder walls and can cause scouring.
Bend the rods with hyd lock
максимум -12с при 30 снег хрустит и погода ясная обманывать не хорошо
@wheelin1 You forgot that awesome BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP sound from the low air alarm, although I guess that horrid thing goes off when it's warm too.
What is it with cat excavator quick coupler alarms on excavators I aware my eardrums will burst 😁
want some startup with that ether?
A little rough on the dipstick, but then again its efing cold out. Are the engines that big that it needs 2 miles of dipstick or is made that way so its easier to remove?
@kurlis How would it be cheating? You can get ether injection systems on the machines straight from the factory. Without the cold start aid it would crank for a longggggggg time damaging the starting system and require you to boost every machine.
Yall ever try a rag soaked in gasoline instead of ether? Works waaaayyyyy better but not so good for the engine
+john owen used to start my old forklift with a burning rag held near the intake,, not too close though lol.
All Detroits needed was a breath of hot air. Ether was optional. A propane torch worked really well.
@dicin29 This is the Burnout.... I would love it if you would keep up the spam. I am in need of a new "asshole" video for this month. You sir are in the front running.
Well I never ran any of these. My Father did during the Korean War. They had the Brigs pony motor they cranked first then engaged it & it started the CAT. but I ran many Diesels 31 yrs over the Rd. & If you don't have any Either ! Get some Gas on a Rag & Place it over the intake & it will do the Same Thing...
@dicin29 w00t! When should we expect the plaque in the mail?
i am suprised the cab doesnt have starter controls for both engines, i see them being started @ the engine. or maybe they do have hte controls in cab as well?, ive seen many of the dual engine scrapers around, this always made me wonder
@vantagetes How often do your mechanics have to change the oil? When you guys do have to change it it must take alot. hmmmm...thats probably why the oil prices go up ;)
We have these in my backyard in chestermere, kidco.
Do they have some kind of remote start? I couldn't quite figure out who started the engines.
As the machine was screaming after you started it up it sounded like to meet was saying it's cold it's cold and what was that squealing sound?
+Alex Williamson'sadventures some belt
I figured as much. Usually not a good sign if the belt screams like that.
Alex Williamson'sadventures
this thing didnt move for a year...
Well I don't know for sure if that was the coldest day you guys started it up on, but I'm sure that it wasn't too happy with the greeting that it. Got.
Oh yea give it the Cosby sauce 🥺🥺😁😁👍👍👍👍
THE VERY COOL CAT SUPER POWER HAHA
God I love this vid!!
can you actully use the 657 if the ground is still frozen at -30c also is there a temperature that you guys just stop work at?
Why was the starter so quiet on the second motor start?
What kind of batteries are in these monsters?
Big ones
how far north of Ed are you? im in SE sk and its been +4 all week
do those scrapers have a smaller motor in the rear
there's no fucken way you should have gotten away with that much juice to that engine, I've done this before he was born. I can't believe he done that.
is the guy in the video mute? because he doesnt say a word the whole time.
For how long do you let them idle before you can use them?
@mrbluenun well think about it, if there wasn't any oil in there he wouldn't of started it now would he?
Hi vantagetes,
Really interesting video, even though the engineer was freezing his nuts off!
He never did say unless it was edited out, whether there was any oil in there?
Take care,
mrbluenun
Apparently no one here's a diesel mechanic with any sort of experience. NEVER use ether on an engine with glow plugs. Lucky so far, wait until the glow plug ignights the fuel/ether on the up swing. Yeah the piston, rod and all just quickly go the other way blowing out your lower end.
You can use ether on an engine with glow plugs just make sure you don't run the glow plugs at the same time or else you'll blow the plugs out of the head or worse
HerroRya let's think about this for a minute. Plugs can withstand the pressure of combustion during normal operation but all of a sudden if there is pre-detonation they will fall out? I don't think so.
Glow plug can ignite the ether when the piston is half way up on the compression stroke while another cylinder is on the combustion stroke moving down. The first cylinder firing too early means it's trying to go the wrong way and you can bend a rod, crack the piston, blow the head off, and/or ruin the block.
It's best to use one or the other. If the battery isn't that great it's best to unplug the glowplug relay so there's no chance of it igniting the ether.
KraigK I am very familiar with the damage caused by pre detonation, I'm saying the glow plugs aren't going to just pop out.
vantagetes do a cat 740 cold start please
how does it ignite the mixture? is it glow plugs?
would have used cold start button for both engines before spraying raw ether into motor, too hard on engine, or plug into light plant and run block heater for 3-4 hours at least
Where is this? U.S. state, Canadian province?
The beginning sounds faintly of a Canadian accent, although, at ~0:40, he says "Oil to the *mile* and a half mark..", and Canadians use kilometers.
alberta canada
Thanks for telling me.
+Will S. Most of us use a mix, the older generation still say mile, etc. Us young kids use metric
i seen this same cat model but working in 50 degrees celsius
The heat of compression
Anyone remember the old Cats the oil was checked while running
from zero to full bore, if you worked for me you would be down the road about now.
@vantagetes I am not saying it is the right thing, but that is the mentality of the people on my job. Not very many speak english and more than likely using a fake social security number too.
why 2 motors??
+MRJOHNDEERE3720. :) the machine will battel with even two motors .
PJ Weir
o ok.
The squealing was the cold fan belts
Sou fa demais desses maquinários
Shit with a can of liquid block heat you can start anything lol
I've never seen a CAT motor with a short one.
yup gave the video one :)
ناس أحبو الدنيا فابدعو فيها عكس المسلمين أدعو حب الآخرة فلم يعملوا لها
can anyone tell me why they need two motors?
thebigguy more power! Push pull scrapers load link together and load up one at a time while running 2-3 rd gear. Hands down the fastest most efficient way to move dirt
oh ok thanks for the explaining it
thatsa long dip stick
1 down, 200 to go
isn't the lighter fluid cheating or it just plain wouldn't start?
@vantagetes this day in a year so it can be last year!!!
@dicin29 What are you, 5? I'm not going to do the "did not, did too" arguement with you. If you don't want us to make fun of you, then keep the comments related to our content. Easy enough?
Q gusta
@dicin29 Then don't spam our page.
Muito essesEsses
my dad died on one of those
Chega fogo n filtro de ar é fácil
@dicin29 You left shit about Chris on both our channel and facebook. If you want us to be nice, don't do stupid shit.
@vantagetes LOL!!!
New diesels start so easy in the cold kinda BORING.
seriously any one that knows diesel, knows about tooo much starter fluid, I'm just saying. glad I didn't own it 😔
@vantagetes didt not dit
operators with either is a terrible combination
too much ether
yeah dont kick any of the snow out of the way just bend the shit out of the cover and tear the dipstick out as fast as you can and bend the shit out of that too and while your at it
@vantagetes and by the way im 14!!! basard!!
Lol
lol
Cringe worthy starting front engine holy wishing for some bent pushrods batman wtf?