When I was driving long haul in the 1970s, the semi used had a detent lever that would not allow for cylinder compression until released. Excellent for cold starts by letting crank get up to speed, oil flowing. On releasing, the diesel started, began running quite well.
gm16v149 I didn't know the specs then, thankee for the information. Possibly my own fault, the only problem I experienced was a frozen fuel filter in PA after an overnight idling session in the dead of winter 1972-1973. Darn it!
It's a big motor people. Relax, it's called routine cold starting. Sometimes I have to crank my truck with a 3406 CAT a couple times before it wants to come to life. She has almost a million miles on her here in PA and our winters get pretty nasty. No problems if you're an experienced operator. Nice videos man.
That machine looks tight for its age I love the old controls in those machines it's what I learned on I always feel right at home in those cabs great piece of equipment there awesome cold start to
Being a (retired) service manager of a heavy equipment dealer, I have to agree with McGillicutty88, Auction yard equipment like that poorly treated Cat, will likely show this abuse 'down the road' so to speak. Most operators and owners will agree that you do not crank a cold engine like that for more than 30 seconds,...rest each time for the batteries to re-bound somewhat,.and stop the diesel fuel washdown effect on those cold pistons and cylinders. Also no real need to start up this unit , unless it is going to be run at least long enough to warm up completely, especially in very cold weather as is shown in the video. I can, however, appreciate the video effect of watching a diesel engine come to life,..but don't do it at that engine's expense. Of course, this is only my opinion.
this is a one of the best wheel loader CAT made it for really heavy working!! I remember on year 1991 I operate a model like that and the engine working around 3 month's NO STOP day and night 24/7!! just 3times per day making a break for put fuel grease check levels and full throttle I can prove this equipment is a KING no one can resist like this!! we talked about on year 1991!! I don't know today
This is a case where a bit of starting fluid would make a huge difference. All that grey exhaust smoke means that unburned fuel is soaking piston tops and especially exhaust valve stems. Many of these engines have been damaged by exhaust valves sticking in their guides after the unburned fuel on valve stems turned into varnish, when the engine warmed up. Use block and oil pan heaters, when starting in cold conditions, use enough starting fluid to make sure all cylinders are firing.
If theGlow plugs were used correctly she would start straight away never had a problem with any Cat starting in all weathers just makes Cats look bad Grrr
Cranking on a starter like that is perfectly fine, done it many of times, cold weather and diesels don't mix my truck has 178 thousand miles and I crank on the starter like this to get it started sometimes, haven't replaced the starter yet
Very nice video,When I was in Canada I did remove the air filter and use a touch to heat the air that goes inside at the same time that cranks the engine,blessings.
+CazaChivo Its okay for machines like these, and other big engines to crank for a very long time, it wont hurt the system, except draining the batteries.
That's a very old machine. But it looks brand new. Caterpillar refurbished? The newer machines are, the easier they are to start. Personally, I wouldn't hold the starter that long. I would just give it more pre heat. Our machines (the 992's, and Compactors, at Fresh Kills Landfill) All had Ether injectors. They make for super easy starting. Just crank and push the button. The computer automatically give it the proper shot of Ether. Vroooom. That's it. (If your out of Ether, then use the manifold heater or have a mechanic change the bottle. Caterpillar does a terrific job refurbishing machines. They refurbished two 983's for us, better than new. (They were eventually replaced a new 973.) Plus I had three D6R LGP's refurbished. One came back with a extra heavy duty bottom end. The machine was like a solid steel anvil yet graded like a butter knife. I pushed out and graded millions of yards of dirt and made 10's of miles of access roads with that baby. IUOE Local 15, 38 yrs ret.
crank for thirty seconds let sit for 30 so the heat generated from the first 30 sec crank can spread through the cyclinder. try another 30 sec crank if it don't start wait another 30 sec. the third time it will fire
Yeh. Me Boss had a D9 Cat, and had a 2 stroke Petrol Motor Fitted that used the exhaust gases to pre heat the Diesel Cat before glowing the Plugs n Starting. Gota love the sound of a Mack also.
The comments about using, not using ether as a starting aid are continuing the myths. The fact is that Caterpillar has recommended the use of starting aids for many years. New, computer controlled engines have the starting aid ( read ether bomb) installed at the factory and controlled by the Electronic Control Module. The starting aid ensures that all the cylinders start firing ASAP after start up. The operator in this video, by not using the starting aid, was risking sticking valves and engine damage, particularly on the 3412. As the engine warms up and the partially burned fuel coating valve stems turned to varnish, valves stick in their guides in the open position and contact pistons. Many engines, not just Cat, are damaged in this way.
Rather than just cranking and cranking continuously the engine, next time try crank for 5 seconds, stop for 5 seconds (gives time to heat engine), repeat and by about the 3rd or 4th cranking, it will be running. I drove truck for 21 years with Cat 3406B mechanical and started it this way more times than I can count.
Question: How do you prematurely kill a starter? Answer: That's easy. Have an inexperienced operator over crank the starter because he didn't leave the glow plugs on long enough. Caterpillar provides oversized glow plugs for extremely cold starting. And if you can read, they have a chart that shows you how long to leave the plugs energized. This is based upon outside temperature.
They have two starters on them. And are industrials. Still doesn't do them good to crank for a long time but will take it over a starter that goes in a pick up.
It hurts to see someone starting a big diesel without using the engine heater. When I was a truck driver I always used the Webasto heater in the winter.
Geez... isn't cranking on a starter that long a little hard on it? I'm not familiar with equipment like this, but truck starters and especially car starters would have burned up.
madflyer1093 I'm glad I don't live there, where ever there is. I hate the winter time, and even though it get's cold here, -30C is not the norm. If that's your cold snap, I'd hate to see your full blown winter. Shoot, living there I'd never get undressed.... shower with my clothes on.
what is this like an auction house or something? that's an older loader to still have the paint on the bucket and your def not afraid to burn the starter up on it
@PingasTheFourth We start our JD2440 and 4040 with Ether all the time. We even use it for our Challenger, and some of the Deeres do come with an ether injection button from the factory.
Running the starter for 46 seconds continuously?! Not good for the starter, nor for the batteries. The batteries seemed to be well charged. What's this engine's displacement and number of cylinders?
1 min of cranking, 30 seconds of cool off. With the cold you can push those numbers a bit. Generally in the cold you will kill the batteries before you kill the starter.
vantagetes Thanks for the update. Just had to order a starter for my Jeep diesel. Cranked it at 38 below for 10 seconds and it died. It was plugged in all night. Has a Mercedes turbo diesel engine. Glad you have a better starter.
Joseph Howard Sounds like you had the opposite problem, mechanical failure due to large temperature fluctuations Starting gear in the extreme cold is hard on parts no matter what you do, but sometimes there's no other way around it. The cold may or may not have been the cause, it could of just been the starters time was up. I've seen starters snap internals from the cold though so who knows..
fightingsiouxkickbut Different manufacturers recommend different crank times, I've seen it range from 10 seconds to 2 minutes. That's also a recommendation based on an average ambient temp, usually around 15*c. When it's -30*c how quickly do you think that starter cools off? (Hint you can contact freeze water by pouring it on steel).
No, I'm the other way. Select highest driving gear and keep the revs over 1,000 before selecting direction to avoid it stalling on thick transmission oil. Release the brakes when you want it to move.
it has a duel stack witch conetcs to each site of the motor so one side of the motor was probably geting more fuel or was fire better than the other side was
+Will S. That's true with the block heater. I have driven truck for over 30 years, and I have used Ether quite a bit, and have never hurt an engine. But you have to be really careful not to spray too much in the intake cause it can cause some serious damage. I usually give it a couple of quick squirts, and crank it for a few seconds, and if it don't fire, I will give it a couple more. They usually fire depending on how cold it is.
+Will S. Don't know about luck, but I do have a mechanical background working on engines and such. And you are 100% correct, all it takes is one time with too much, and bye bye engine. :)
Ether will blow that engine apart in short order. However you are correct a block heater would help. Judging from the snow on the ground I would say starting won't be easy in climates like that.
To start up a cat 992c first I empty the bottle of starter fluid then bring a giant ass football field long tarp and put it over the loader and put about 100 commercial grade heaters and start it.
Sorry, aber dem Motor macht das nix aus^^ Ein großer Diesel braucht eben lange zum starten, war damals einfach so. Besonders, wenn es verdammt kalt ist.
Sorry aber dem Motor macht das etwas aus, unvollständige Verbrennung und vor allem Nageln. Auch einen großen Diesel von einer Baumaschine kann man vorglühen, außer die Amerikaner, aber die haben den Diesel auch nicht erfunden..
When I was driving long haul in the 1970s, the semi used had a detent lever that would not allow for cylinder compression until released. Excellent for cold starts by letting crank get up to speed, oil flowing. On releasing, the diesel started, began running quite well.
CrampedGrampy That would be the Cummins 855 cu.in. Good reliable engine in it's day.
gm16v149 I didn't know the specs then, thankee for the information. Possibly my own fault, the only problem I experienced was a frozen fuel filter in PA after an overnight idling session in the dead of winter 1972-1973. Darn it!
Watch out guys we have newbie here
It's a big motor people. Relax, it's called routine cold starting. Sometimes I have to crank my truck with a 3406 CAT a couple times before it wants to come to life. She has almost a million miles on her here in PA and our winters get pretty nasty. No problems if you're an experienced operator. Nice videos man.
Wrong.
@@elexvavrick6011 he’s actually right
That machine looks tight for its age I love the old controls in those machines it's what I learned on I always feel right at home in those cabs great piece of equipment there awesome cold start to
Being a (retired) service manager of a heavy equipment dealer, I have to agree with McGillicutty88, Auction yard equipment like that poorly treated Cat, will likely show this abuse 'down the road' so to speak. Most operators and owners will agree that you do not crank a cold engine like that for more than 30 seconds,...rest each time for the batteries to re-bound somewhat,.and stop the diesel fuel washdown effect on those cold pistons and cylinders. Also no real need to start up this unit , unless it is going to be run at least long enough to warm up completely, especially in very cold weather as is shown in the video.
I can, however, appreciate the video effect of watching a diesel engine come to life,..but don't do it at that engine's expense. Of course, this is only my opinion.
Repasko
Reg SparJeep
Rr
Reg SparJeep
Ttm
this is a one of the best wheel loader CAT made it for really heavy working!! I remember on year 1991 I operate a model like that and the engine working around 3 month's NO STOP day and night 24/7!! just 3times per day making a break for put fuel grease check levels and full throttle I can prove this equipment is a KING no one can resist like this!! we talked about on year 1991!! I don't know today
This is a case where a bit of starting fluid would make a huge difference. All that grey exhaust smoke means that unburned fuel is soaking piston tops and especially exhaust valve stems. Many of these engines have been damaged by exhaust valves sticking in their guides after the unburned fuel on valve stems turned into varnish, when the engine warmed up. Use block and oil pan heaters, when starting in cold conditions, use enough starting fluid to make sure all cylinders are firing.
Yup.
If theGlow plugs were used correctly she would start straight away never had a problem with any Cat starting in all weathers just makes Cats look bad Grrr
Cranking on a starter like that is perfectly fine, done it many of times, cold weather and diesels don't mix my truck has 178 thousand miles and I crank on the starter like this to get it started sometimes, haven't replaced the starter yet
Lol how about now
@@naterocksable probably not
@@lanelyons9303 lol
2:09 Giggity.
i was 12 years old the first time i step in a machine like this the engine sound its just nostalgic for me i love it V12 twin turbo charged diesel
Very nice video,When I was in Canada I did remove the air filter and use a touch to heat the air that goes inside at the same time that cranks the engine,blessings.
46 seconds cranking the starter? That must be considered felony!
+CazaChivo Its okay for machines like these, and other big engines to crank for a very long time, it wont hurt the system, except draining the batteries.
No it over heats the starter and the cables back to the batteries, and stuffs the starter
That's a very old machine. But it looks brand new. Caterpillar refurbished? The newer machines are, the easier they are to start. Personally, I wouldn't hold the starter that long. I would just give it more pre heat. Our machines (the 992's, and Compactors, at Fresh Kills Landfill) All had Ether injectors. They make for super easy starting. Just crank and push the button. The computer automatically give it the proper shot of Ether. Vroooom. That's it. (If your out of Ether, then use the manifold heater or have a mechanic change the bottle. Caterpillar does a terrific job refurbishing machines. They refurbished two 983's for us, better than new. (They were eventually replaced a new 973.) Plus I had three D6R LGP's refurbished. One came back with a extra heavy duty bottom end. The machine was like a solid steel anvil yet graded like a butter knife. I pushed out and graded millions of yards of dirt and made 10's of miles of access roads with that baby. IUOE Local 15, 38 yrs ret.
crank for thirty seconds let sit for 30 so the heat generated from the first 30 sec crank can spread through the cyclinder. try another 30 sec crank if it don't start wait another 30 sec. the third time it will fire
Looks like a brand new machine that needs fixing ! I've come across old tractors (Ford 1200) that start MUCH better than that on a flat battery !
That makes sense
Apart from pre-wetting cylinders, I prefer the crank until it starts method unless battery shows sign of struggling.
Yeh. Me Boss had a D9 Cat, and had a 2 stroke Petrol Motor Fitted that used the exhaust gases to pre heat the Diesel Cat before glowing the Plugs n Starting. Gota love the sound of a Mack also.
@@lumberjaxe8910 With a donkey engine, no issues, just keep turning the main engine until it fires.
Melting cables and anything that will burn!!!!!
The comments about using, not using ether as a starting aid are continuing the myths. The fact is that Caterpillar has recommended the use of starting aids for many years. New, computer controlled engines have the starting aid ( read ether bomb) installed at the factory and controlled by the Electronic Control Module. The starting aid ensures that all the cylinders start firing ASAP after start up. The operator in this video, by not using the starting aid, was risking sticking valves and engine damage, particularly on the 3412. As the engine warms up and the partially burned fuel coating valve stems turned to varnish, valves stick in their guides in the open position and contact pistons. Many engines, not just Cat, are damaged in this way.
That’s just me trying to start my Honda in any weather
Finally a actual diesel cold start
Love these old machines, I learned in an old 966&950 and on a 46a
Rather than just cranking and cranking continuously the engine, next time try crank for 5 seconds, stop for 5 seconds (gives time to heat engine), repeat and by about the 3rd or 4th cranking, it will be running. I drove truck for 21 years with Cat 3406B mechanical and started it this way more times than I can count.
Lets move it right away without letting it warm up at all. Brilliant!
Question: How do you prematurely kill a starter?
Answer: That's easy. Have an inexperienced operator over crank the starter because he didn't leave the glow plugs on long enough.
Caterpillar provides oversized glow plugs for extremely cold starting. And if you can read,
they have a chart that shows you how long to leave the plugs energized. This is based upon outside temperature.
This series did not have glow plugs.
this is the most awesome cold start ive ever seen... :D
Your not supposed to crank an engine for more than 20 seconds per cranking session. Very surprised you didn't burn the starter up.
For small gas engines maybe. Large diesels you're good for a minute or two. You'd never get the oil moving and the injectors to fire otherwise.
Everyone freaking out about starters but just one thing I think the starter on this is a bit better than the one on your civic
Glad to see your still alive love the videos thanks
Did anyone mention, they build one hell of a starter...
That's a starter to remember... or is it an external glow plug?
I bought 10 propane blower to preheat my loader every morning now,start like it’s summer at -40
good baterys and good start engine
Yep, shes cold! Don't get that problem in Australia, giggidy!
Ahhh yes nothing like a September morning in Alberta Canada
One thing about ether.when that cold it doesn't vaporize and can cause static lock
Sounds like a MTU engine like what are used in HST trains
They have two starters on them. And are industrials. Still doesn't do them good to crank for a long time but will take it over a starter that goes in a pick up.
please conect the block heater for next time... its magic! loll
I wonder what the temperature is there?
That a brand new loader !
That whole area looks Burrrrrrrrr !
It hurts to see someone starting a big diesel without using the engine heater. When I was a truck driver I always used the Webasto heater in the winter.
maybe a tap on the cold start button of an ether injection system would have been a good idea
glad its not my machine
that old 992C has been kept up well, I have seen them in pretty shitty condition :P
well, they got their 4 minutes on youtube and that's all that counts....
So no one likes to use ether anymore? Kind of rough on the starter. How’s the outlook for the life on that engine? Asking for a friend
Good cat 992c
Geez... isn't cranking on a starter that long a little hard on it? I'm not familiar with equipment like this, but truck starters and especially car starters would have burned up.
at -30C it really doesn't affect it
madflyer1093 May I ask how you know it's -30C... did I miss something in this video then?
because thats what we get in November, the first cold snap of the winter
***** but either way, no its not bad for it, it really does not warm up enough to burn the starter
madflyer1093 I'm glad I don't live there, where ever there is. I hate the winter time, and even though it get's cold here, -30C is not the norm. If that's your cold snap, I'd hate to see your full blown winter. Shoot, living there I'd never get undressed.... shower with my clothes on.
Looks like the left side burns quite a bit better than the right... judging by the exhaust and stack discoloration.
what is this like an auction house or something? that's an older loader to still have the paint on the bucket and your def not afraid to burn the starter up on it
is this place the old Kelbe Bros. in Wauwatosa Wis? on Silver Spring Dr.????
Dude, you said Gigitty! That's awesome..lol.
we use this stuff called starting fluid. one small squirt and its running.lol
@PingasTheFourth We start our JD2440 and 4040 with Ether all the time. We even use it for our Challenger, and some of the Deeres do come with an ether injection button from the factory.
im in halifax we are still in t shirts maybe the odd sweater its still nice here
There is a right way, a wrong way, and then... this F?!king way. Wanna buy this brand new loader?
This is why I'll never buy anything from a Ritchie bros sale...
sasky boy 😂😆 you made my day!
sasky boy your dumb it's freezing cold out, can't expect it to crank right over😂
What an idiot! You truly don't know shit
I hope that machine comes with 2 extra starters and a case of either.
Starter is a champ.
were you using the ether start aid to get her going? Or was that all the 3412 starting on its own?
Running the starter for 46 seconds continuously?! Not good for the starter, nor for the batteries. The batteries seemed to be well charged. What's this engine's displacement and number of cylinders?
Dont starters usually need time to cool off between starts? I imagine cranking it so long was probably not so healthy.
1 min of cranking, 30 seconds of cool off. With the cold you can push those numbers a bit. Generally in the cold you will kill the batteries before you kill the starter.
vantagetes Thanks for the update. Just had to order a starter for my Jeep diesel. Cranked it at 38 below for 10 seconds and it died. It was plugged in all night. Has a Mercedes turbo diesel engine. Glad you have a better starter.
Joseph Howard Sounds like you had the opposite problem, mechanical failure due to large temperature fluctuations Starting gear in the extreme cold is hard on parts no matter what you do, but sometimes there's no other way around it. The cold may or may not have been the cause, it could of just been the starters time was up. I've seen starters snap internals from the cold though so who knows..
fightingsiouxkickbut Different manufacturers recommend different crank times, I've seen it range from 10 seconds to 2 minutes. That's also a recommendation based on an average ambient temp, usually around 15*c. When it's -30*c how quickly do you think that starter cools off? (Hint you can contact freeze water by pouring it on steel).
Yah buddy cat for the Winn.
I was thinking the same thing ..let it run for a hour before using it
No, I'm the other way. Select highest driving gear and keep the revs over 1,000 before selecting direction to avoid it stalling on thick transmission oil. Release the brakes when you want it to move.
gonna burn that starter up
Never heard at blockheater? Saves your machines..
Forgot to hit the glow plugs did?..
do you have your foot on the throttle at any point while you're starting it? How much thrttles do you give it once it turns over?
How cold is it there? Are those new tractors your company got?
Bearings took a beating on this start. 😬
Very good batterys
You boys dont have any starting fluid? Or is starters and batteries cheaper to buy?
that poor battery... lmao
CSalev3 And that why there is a row of batteries. Its not a car lmao
Reckon they were cat battery’s
Don’t pause between starts get right on it because you losing heat
is this at an RB Auctions site?
Ugh that hurt watching that
Is it just really really cold or does that thing have really bad compression. Yeah is a diesel but damn
It's cold enough to make you think dying is a better option than being outside.
Glow Plugs ? ! Nope ! ? Don't have it ? 😬
Sorry I don't know much about these or diesel engines in general, but why does one stack blow darker smoke than the other (at least at the beginning)?
it has a duel stack witch conetcs to each site of the motor so one side of the motor was probably geting more fuel or was fire better than the other side was
It appears only one side is warm and burning fuel. White smoke is unburnt fuel just being thrown out
Yeah, keep cranking on that starter like that, and see how long it and the batteries last.
Ever heard of Ether? Or a block heater?
+RakinBill Ether's tough on the engine, though, and a block heater for an engine that big would eat an unreasonable amount of electricity.
+Will S. That's true with the block heater. I have driven truck for over 30 years, and I have used Ether quite a bit, and have never hurt an engine. But you have to be really careful not to spray too much in the intake cause it can cause some serious damage. I usually give it a couple of quick squirts, and crank it for a few seconds, and if it don't fire, I will give it a couple more. They usually fire depending on how cold it is.
RakinBill
That's luck, and a good brand of engine, then. All it takes is an off day and a heavy finger on the ether to slaughter your engine.
+Will S. Don't know about luck, but I do have a mechanical background working on engines and such. And you are 100% correct, all it takes is one time with too much, and bye bye engine. :)
Ether will blow that engine apart in short order. However you are correct a block heater would help. Judging from the snow on the ground I would say starting won't be easy in climates like that.
To start up a cat 992c first I empty the bottle of starter fluid then bring a giant ass football field long tarp and put it over the loader and put about 100 commercial grade heaters and start it.
Was that the Edmonton RB at the end of oct?
Nothing like diesel.....
How cold was/is it already!?
Sure sounds sweet once all of the cylinders get to work.
I no it takes a lot of turning the engine over but by the time it acutely starts there would be heat in the engine because of all the puffing it done
It's brand new,it better start.lol
ev keeney
It’s old
Very old probably done 50000 plus hours
Just been refurbished
Great video
It’s older than most of the people who watched it.
that thing dos not want to move when its cold
Estuve seis años trabajando con ese modelo
Whats the duty cycle on that starter? 1 on 1 off?
The reason ether is considered so hard on engines is that it dries oil. With all that oil present, it ain't hurting much.
Das tut mir ja in der Seele weh was Ihr mit dem Motor macht
Sorry, aber dem Motor macht das nix aus^^
Ein großer Diesel braucht eben lange zum starten, war damals einfach so. Besonders, wenn es verdammt kalt ist.
Sorry aber dem Motor macht das etwas aus, unvollständige Verbrennung und vor allem Nageln. Auch einen großen Diesel von einer Baumaschine kann man vorglühen, außer die Amerikaner, aber die haben den Diesel auch nicht erfunden..
WHy me Why me why ME why Me why me?!
I feel sorry for that starter
Satisfying.
why torture the starter for more than 30 seconds?? If ten seconds dont start,wait a few seconds and retry. 2) the engine may be warm to begin to run,
lol lets go to the auction and cold start stuff...
Like very nice
R.i.p starter motor
melvin arias This isn't the starter off a 12 valve cummins. Its not hurting it at all cranking that long.
Dieselman8v92
I'm not against the confederate flag, but left extremists will get triggered, so I'd change your profile pic.
That is no way how to treat your Kitty Cats STARTER my friend.
Ahhh.. monthlys. We do the same..
Gotdamn right giggity
Ritchie brosssssss
didn't you let it warm up?
Well that took some life out of the starter