Pathfinder: WotR - Ranking 199 Classes Part 12: Kineticist & Archetypes
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- Опубліковано 21 лип 2024
- This video starts my series ranking all the classes in Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous. The first video in this series walks through the ranking system. A link to my guide on all 25 base class mechanics is below.
25 Base Classes Mechanics: • Pathfinder: WotR - All...
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00:00 Kineticist
01:49 Blood Kineticist
04:54 Dark Elementalist
07:10 Elemental Engine
08:30 Kinetic Knight
10:27 Overwhelming Soul
11:49 Psychokineticist
12:54 Outro - Ігри
Greetings! I missed some key information for the Elemental Engine archetype. Burnout will let Gather Power reduce burn by an additional point when you are at max burn. This replaces the point you lose from Supercharge being removed. In light of this information I would change my rating to a B+. While it is capable of doing incredible damage you must already be at full burn to truly take advantage.
I'm kinda surprised that permanent Haste at full burn wasn't worth mentioning either. The +4 to fire spell saving throws is also great given how much fire you will face.
@@Tinil0 Haste is most useful when doing full attacks, as it gives you an additional attack at full bab. The only time (I can think of) when a kineticist would be doing a full attack would be with a blade infusion when on the front lines (the standard range attack is a standard action - you cannot do a full attack with it). You only have perma-haste at max burn, at which point you have such pitiful hp, you should avoid the frontline like the plague. So, it's *nice*, to help you run away from backline assassins, but far less useful than it would be on any martial class, and by no means a game changer.
@@jamesnewman7509 Makes sense
Wouldn't that just mean you fire off massively infused blasts until at max burn, and then just do your massively buffed normal (though still infused) blasts when you reach full burn?
@@secrecy2744 I used that one effect that gives you damage resistance in exchange for a point if burn on my play through. Because the goal was to always be at max burn, I had some pretty impressive DR. If I recall correctly, that effect continued until the burn was removed, so basically until next rest. It helped with the perpetually low life from having almost no life.
The main benefit of wrack isn’t that it’s untyped, it’s that it auto hits.
Agreed. I didn't feel like that was something I needed to explain more where as why untyped is advantageous may not be clear to everyone.
0:50 Aeon mythic path can give Kineticist the synergy they need. One of the Aeon gazes makes your party immune to continuous aeo abilities, that allows you to cast Deadly Earth on top of you without fear.
Nice! That's a great call out.
This is true, sadly quite bugged. I recently finished an True Aeon Kineticist run and the gaze only worked from time to time time. Most of the time, the companions took dmg non the less. When it worked, it was glorious... when not, there was a Paladin, a gnome and their pets down to the ground 😞
@@SubwayToSally90 Are you sure? Cause I finished the game as Aeon too and I never encountered this issue. Check if you have conflicted effects going on, and remember that the Gaze only stops CONTINUEOUS aoe abilities, not instant aoe ones, you till take dmg normally from fireballs and the like.
@@demonsangells sadly yes. Tripping magmar earth sometimes was working, sometimes not. Run was quite recent, tho. Maybe that bug is kindof new
@@SubwayToSally90 That's caused by the fact that Aeon Gazes only function while in combat. Once combat is finished, the protection instantly ends, and your friends get rocked.
I will say that the kinetic knight takes a hit because we don't have kinetic whip as an option, but can reach an ungodly amount of AC and gets iterative attacks and the blade itself, since always "equipped" can be buffed by greater magic weapon. Through gear you are buffing it by 4 dice by the end making it a very effective single target killer. Still not the best class by far, but has a lot more potential than people give it credit.
Good call outs thank you.
You can do the same thing on base kineticist, all weapons buffs included my guy, KK is weak because they gave up range advantage for armor training which is not good cause you are better off pyjama tanking.
Thank you, sir. I only wish I could get a voiced character by you! What an amazing voice.
Hopefully one day! Thank you!
I don't know if this has been said yet, but there is a mask in act 3 that grants a +6 enhancement bonus to wisdom and charisma. This means that you can still get a greater kinetic diadem and an enhancement bonus for overwhelming soul and psychokineticist.
That's true but when doing rankings I don't consider one off accessories. Maybe a player finds that item or maybe they don't but the class should be enjoyable regardless. Definitely a good call out though for people who might want to use one of the archetypes.
I'd argue that the Diadems almost fit the same category as the act 3 mask --- maybe players find these items maybe they don't but the value of the class is highly affected by them. There are Plenty of items (and spells for that matter) that give enhancement bonuses to the mental stats that aren't helmet based, besides the very awesome, and reliable to get broken trickster - so I wouldnt dump a whole letter grade since you can easily get an equivalent enhancement bonus without a helmet. That being said, overwhelming soul is a pretty big downgrade with its other mechanics; Lich is probably the only reason to consider it.
Amazing and detailed info. I have been waiting for this video to drop as I have always been interested in this class but have never attempted a build with it. Just bought the season pass on the autumn sale on steam! I'm ready to get back into this game! Thanks for the passion and info SG! Great job as always.
Glad it was helpful!
Man first time I've seen a class where every archetype is just worst
Psychokineticist is pretty good to spec Lann into. He has good stats for it and monk bonuses are not wasted.
Never even thought about making Lann a Kineticist that is interesting.
Late, but I just tried this since I kept having issues with him and Arue stepping on each other's toes and it worked like a damn CHARM. Bro hits like a truck and Perfect Strike is really nice to have.
If you're soloing or you're fine with managing your party to avoid your insane AOE abilities, pretty much all Kineticists are S tier, with the base being S+. Sure some of them are worse than the base Kineticist, but all are still insanely good.
Yup agreed.
It should be noted the elemental engine gets the effect of supercharge built into elemental burnout. The main drawback of elemental engine is the loss of the fortification and size bonuses to attributes, and the drawbacks of having no spare burn (your effective health is really low, and you cannot ever use abilities that require you to take on burn, like quickened blast or a burn cost wild talent).
I still prefer the base kineticist, but I would say you have underrated it significantly. Its the only reasonable alternative to base kineticist for a non lich (in which case, you probably want one of the archetypes that replaces constitution with another attribute).
Yup I put a pinned comment at the top about this. Thank you for the feedback.
Idk, I'm reading the class progression rn, and Ele Eng has Ele Overflow, so they do get the size bonus
Was this changed is some patch less than a month ago?
That's too bad about the archetypes.
I feel that's a balancing issue where the devs failed to set strict enough limiters on the base class that would have made the archetypes more appealing.
If any subclass can be broken down into "it's like if you played the base class and chose not to use these features in order to gain a new feature of lesser value", then that's a subclass that shouldn't be made.
What's extra strange is that the structure of the base class lends itself so well to extrapolation.
Choosing which blasts and forms you take is built in, so just make each sub class some form of "you're limited to these features from the base class" but instead of the one-off flavor features that those archetypes have, just have multiple archetype specific options for players to choose from.
So instead of a kinetic knight just being a paladin with differing flavored Smites and no spells, let players choose between defense enhancing, damage enhancing, and mobility enhancing options at certain levels to make an interesting alternative to the existing melee classes.
I don't blame Owlcat, since they just adapted the books that Paizo created, but they didn't so themselves any favors by choosing to include so many inferior options.
Yup I agree.
A quick point I noticed during my kineticist playthrough as EE. I got the demon graft, which gives some really nice bonuses for a kineticist, but with the obvious 20% hp loss of control for the remainder of the fight.
However, I noticed the loss of control never actually triggered for me. I don't know if this has since been fixed, but I theorized that the game got confused with the decrease in max hp, and never actually proved the downside. Giving me a pure permanent upside.
Oh wow that is interesting. Thanks for calling it out.
“No way to make your party immune.”
Laughs in Enforcing Gaze, AoE
😂
I really wanted to like the Dark Elementalist, but you can't remove Burn using their special ability unless it's actually in combat. As a result, you don't have a way to reduce your burn outside of combat at all, so you need to waste a full-round action turn in combat just to remove one point of burn.
Unless its changed, you can do it out of combat, but its a huge pain. Most annoyingly, it wastes excess HD. If a dead pack has a combined HD of 1000, you cannot cast soul power 6 times as max level to get the max bonus, as a single use will drain all corpses in the AOE. Instead, you have to clear 6 non trivial packs, casting soul power after each. Forget about resting right before a hard encounter.
Elemental engine can, at level 3, increase the burn reduction from gather by 1 as long as they are at maximum burn. I think this makes the class a lot better than a D, basically it's the ultimate kineticist glass cannon.
Agreed. I will change the ranking when we do the final summary.
The Kineticist NPCs in Kingmaker utterly trivialised the mid-endgame for me (level 13 on, once they had Deadly Earth), so I swore off using them again in Wrath, so as to maintain any kind of challenge (we didn't even have Ascendant Element back then!), except for Kinetic Knight, which I have planned for a future playthrough. Fortunately, I have a mod (Dark Codex) which adds the missing Kinetic Whip infusion, and a few other things. But yeah, once I hit level 13, I died more often from friendly fire than I did from enemy actions.
Kineticist is a strange one, though. So much planning required to build one properly (I still feel it's a bit of a dick move by the game to not tell you anywhere I can see what elements are valid composite combinations), but so simple (though not always easy) to use in moment-to-moment gameplay.
I am the exact opposite, always benched the sisters because I mistakenly though Kineticist was trash. When I replay Kingmaker I'll definitely use one of them and get that Deadly Earth experience. LOL
@@SlanderedGaming Make sure you don't over-use it and kill all the fun offscreen as well as all the enemies. It certainly makes some areas (such as the final dungeon/house) *much* less of a slog, though.
The main reason to change attributes comes with some mythics. Lich wants charisma and does not care about constitution, and when you plan to go Legend and grab levels in other classes you may want to plan ahead. I mean, quickened True Strike may be useful if you get Sorcerer for example, but you will probably stick to constitution if you go for Mutation Warrior.
Yup I agree but in the rankings, for the most part, I don't consider Mythic Path synergy. I just take the class for what it is.
I would say that you don't need to choose between kinetic diadem and int/wis/char one since u can use glasses from dlc that gives+6 bonus to all stats. Also psychokineticist have better will saves than base kineticist, since you're putting all points into wisdom. For me psychokineticist is just pure upgrade from base class, just because wisdom is much better stat than constitution for range character
It gives bonuses to wis and charisma, not all mental stats. Additionally, you get only get one, and not for quite a long time.
Psychokineticist doesnt get elemental overflow bonuses to stats and fortification, gets absolutely horrendous will save and wisdom skill check penalties, far more than offsetting the benefits of having high wisdom. Its definitely not a pure upgrade.
The glasses (Broken Trickster) don't give Int, only Wis & Cha.
I think you should look at the Elemental Engine again. The ability Burnout somewhat replaces supercharge at max burn but you also get double the bonuses. Combined with Fire's fury you can blow targets up. With Ascended Element Fire and Magma composite blast I was getting up to 150+ crit damage in chapter 3 in Drezen. The only downside is that living at max burn means one hit your pretty much done. Its s true glass cannon in every sense of the word. If one could hold till ascended element electricity, I imagine going air and getting immune to ground target and freedom of movement is nice.
I totally agree. Currently still in act 3 and the 1st thing I do in a day is to get to max burn (by stacking DR) and then kill allmost any enemy with one hit with an empowerd, extended range, tripping magmar blast each round. Or as an opener I add maximize or change it to deadly earth. It is more powerful than the base class, but you really are a glass cannon, as you have to be at max burn.
Elemental engine is probably the best archetype, but I would still say worse than base kineticist.
Firstly, the loss of size bonuses to constitution and dexterity roughly halves the hit and damage bonuses of the archetype, as well as reducing saves, total health, and initiative.
At higher levels, the hit and damage bonuses are usually pretty inconsequential. Best case scenario, at endgame, you are doing +4 damage (+8 on composite blasts) more than a base kineticist at max level if you take +4 con and +6 dex rather than vice versa. Your non crits on composite blasts will be will over 200 damage, so this usually makes no difference (occasionally, it will save you an extra attack, but its mostly just more overkill). As for hit bonuses, +3 or +4 to hit is important if you are using physical blasts that rely on attack rolls, but generally, by your 3rd element, you will have at least fire blast (honestly, I nearly always pick it at level 1 or 7), so will nearly always attack touch AC for standard blast or kinetic blade in which case, you arent missing anyway, and for physical blasts, will use infusions like deadly earth and cloud which dont require attack rolls.
You also lose fortification bonuses, total health, and particularly effective health. A base kineticist sitting at 7 burn pumping con can be pretty tanky. An elemental engine pumping con simply has to take more burn, so will be just as fragile. Unconscious kineticists do no damage, and even AOE hits will regularly knock an elemental engine out.
Finally, sitting at max burn means never using burn in combat. This rules out several wild talents, and quickened metakinesis. I dont use either much, but quickened blast in particular is situationally very powerful (if an enemy needs to die right now, hitting them with an instant cloud or deadly earth can finish them off without having to worry about saves or misses). That is an option elemental engines will never have in practice.
Yup I screwed that up. Pinned post in the comments. Thank you!
Another banger!
Glad you liked it!
about the "sicking" part, you said it makes enemies take -2 on saving throws, which is false.
it actually does this: "The character takes a -2 penalty on all attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks." so it's -2 on almost everything.
I wasn't trying to say it's the only thing Sickening does, I was stating the specific part that tied in with helping your party members punch through enemy defenses. Apologies if that wasn't clear in the video.
Great video as usual. From your perspective I do agree with Kineticist being A+
Personally for me however it slides up to S cause I mostly play turn based unless I wanna like blitz right through the Drezen battle at the end of act 2. I feel like Turn based gives a better sense of management with this class' viability in a party format. But I make no claim of that being objective fact and it could just come down to playstyle
Yup that makes complete sense.
@SlanderedGaming though it's funny cause I feel like even Turn based players like myself will do the RTWP in some areas of the game just to get along with it. The first time I did Battle for Defenders heart on turn base Good lord did it take forever even with setting at max speed lol
Hi Slandered! I just got this game and I've discovered your channel because of it. It's especially great to see a black gamer into the same kinda games I am that's so successful on UA-cam. Props!
I was wondering if you had any advice or builds on a Kineticist that wasn't Earth/Fire Deadly Earth type? Would an Energy Kineticist only do one attack a round or would they be able to do some other aoe? Something a little more controllable like a Controlled Fireball or electricity's chained-lightning?
Welcome to the channel and glad you have been enjoying the content! Kineticists in general only do one attack per round but they have plenty of options outside of Deadly Earth. I haven't done any Kineticist builds yet but I recommend you watch my video breaking down the class mechanics of Kineticist and it'll give you a better idea of some of the different options: ua-cam.com/video/9JKzVhpzL_8/v-deo.html
@@SlanderedGaming UA-cam doesn't tell me when my comments get replies! lol. Probably for the best. I didn't think you would!
I checked out that very excellent video and decided to give it a shot and see how it goes. The video was SUPER informative. And you've probably noticed me making a copy of all your companion builds XD. You did so much work on this game, man. I'm glad to have found the channel. Fire/Water Kitsune Kineticist Azata-path here we gooooo lol we'll see but I'm loving the game anyway. Thanks, man.
The thing about earth v fire is is earth a ranged attack and fire is ranged touch attack. Earth Kineticist is miserable for a lot of levels. Fire is at least I'm helping for those early levels
I played a Kineticist through 20 in DLC3, a Kinetic Knight thorugh 10 in the main campaign, and a Dark Elementalist through 10 in the main campaign. Dark Elementalist is weird because the tooltip doesn't say it, but the low burn is offset by the fact that it appears to be *per encounter*. This makes things like the defensive infusions much more powerful because you can invest to the cap at the start of the day and your burn resets, giving you all the benefits with none of the drawbacks. Sucking the souls from defeated enemies is problematic though, because you are almost in a time crunch. You can spend a full round action to do it in combat, otherwise you have a round or two after combat to get the ability out before your burn resets to zero.
Kinetic knight's main benefit is that because kinetic blade costs zero, you can use a full round attack to hit multiple times with your blast. This doesn't work with more powerful blasts like composite, but it does mean you can get in melee range and make two or three powerful attacks that target touch AC each round. Obviously this is still less powerful than a base kineticist, but this plus whirlwind attack means you are still quite a powerful combatant. Couple this with Legend path to get even more attacks per round and I think you have a case for one of the most powerful Legends available.
Great call outs. I might have to make a build of this character down the line.
Its not an advantage for the kinetic knight. Form infusions are subject to infusion specialisation, which for other kineticists reduces the burn cost of blade to zero at level 5. You wont get additional attacks from full attack actions before level 5.
@@notalefty999 I wasn't saying Kinetic Knight was better any any way than Kineticist, just that the zero infusion blade cost meant iterative attacks were more of a possibility for them. And at level 5 you also get haste on your casters, so it is a pretty big power spike, but if I remember right Kineticist is 3/4 BAB meaning they don't get 2 attacks until 7? or 8?
Anyways, they are strictly worse, but have a different playstyle and make a great jedi with a lightsaber, if that is what you're going for.
@@turtlejay Its level 8, and yes, thats the point. 5 (whilst hasted) is the earliest you will benefit from a 0 burn cost kinetic blade, and its 0 burn cost for all kineticists at this leel.
As notalefty said, kinetic knights are better at kinetic blade until lvl 5, then all the kineticist are about the same. At 19 all kineticists but the kinetic knight can use iterative attacks with an empowered kinetic blade, so late game the knigth deals 50% less dmg with kinetic blade than any other kineticist.
I wonder if it's worth going overwhelming soul to be charisma based and getting two levels as Paladin, meaning your charisma modifier will get added as a bonus to all your saving throws, seems massive, especially late in the game when you will have stupid level of charisma
It would definitely make you more tanky while obviously slowing your Kineticist progression.
I don't think you played Elemental Engine and just read the description of this sub class.
You get -1 burn from gather power earlier than normal kineticist by max burning yourself.
Also you get minor buffs from your first elemental later on. Perma haste for fire. Immunities for others.
You also get significant increase in damage because of the bug or (may be) an intended mechanics that adds another double bonus from burn when you cap your burn.
The drawback is that you are fragile as hell because maxburning yourself leaves you with small percentage of health.
You negate that by riding a free dino pet or getting a second pet class as a legend.
In the end your damage is significantly higher and if you use the blade while mounted on the horse you become insanely powerful.
Also a minor bug to mention. The haste from fire elemental max burnout is bugged. You get + 1 attack On Top of regular haste.
I think this is still present in the game.
I understand your point regarding the knight. But think about the rule of cool here: you're basically playing a MFng jedi with an elemental lightsaber. It might not be the most optimal way to play a kineticist, but it's definitely (one of) the coolest. I'd love to see a build for this one.
I definitely plan to try it out at some point.
The thing is, base kineticist can do the exact same thing. The only 2 things a knight gets is heavy armour and the ability to lower burn by 1 with the blade, meaning you can use it level 1. Thing is, base class lowers burn cost later on so they can do the exact same thing as the knight but with the added bonus of ranged attacks. Heavy armour and shields are ok but mage armour and water’s shield ability is much better. So if you want to be a Jedi that can only use a ‘lightsaber” then knight can work but if you want to be a Jedi that can use the saber and force powers, base class is the way to go.
Worst thing about knights is the fact kinetic blade does not get to attack of opportunity so your stuck in melee and not able to make use of one of melees best tools.
I finally bought this game and so far realyy really liking it . Playing on ps5 as curomancer
That's awesome!! Really hope you enjoy it.
So I made an elemental engine kineticist and I've been walking around with max burn so I just kinda one shot everything but lately if I take even one damage my pc just falls to ground as if dead. My nonlethal damage from burn isn't overtaking my current hp am I bugged or what?
Yeah the required micromanaging is the big reason I don't run Kineticists in the party.
Hey there! I have a question that's...not really very related, but there are painfully few places to get good advice and you're knowledgeable about the game, so hey, engagement! So I've been trying to figure out if it's possible to play a Kineticist on the Lich mythic path, since Lich will eventually lose it's entire con score, and most everything Kineticist does goes off con. Would I have to play as one of the variants that don't use con, which is suboptimal for reasons you lay out in this video?
If you plan to follow through on the Lich transformation than yes you would need to play a Kineticist variant. You could play as a Lich and then purposely sabotage your transformation in Act 5. This will keep you from losing your Con score but also cost you the other things a true Lich would get, including a phylactery which automatically regenerates you upon death and robes that give max bonuses to all mental scores.
@@SlanderedGaming Thanks for the reply, man. You saved me like, 50+ hours of playing only to find out I completely screwed myself at the final hurdle.
Never even tried this class. Is it something like Warlock where you just spam Eldritch Blast at enemies?
Mechanically that is probably a good description. In practice the damage becomes way more impactful than what Eldritch Blast can do.
Yerp
@@SlanderedGaming thanks for clarifying. That might be interesting to try out after all!
I don't even feel like Kinetic Knight fits as a proper subclass of Kineticist.
It would have done better as a subclass of fighter that pulled from the Kineticist class.
Btw had to go look through uploads to find Cavalier video.
Wasn't in playlist.
Weird it's in the playlist when I look at it.
@@SlanderedGaming definitely weird. I only mentioned it because I was watching the list yesterday and it went straight from video 5-7.
It's updated now though.
Kineticist is amazing. However the deadly earth thing I find myself rarely use coz if I do I hit my party. Its very situational.
Yeah having to manage the party is what makes me shy away from it.
If you want to lean into your kine, you just put your team on hold position. Move your line forward, drop your wall, drop your cloud, drop your wall. Step back and then if anything survives (mostly things that can’t be tripped) they can walk into your party. You can move ranged units up so they can fire into the aoe and kite back, but that often is overkill.
The worst are story combat where it moves your party for a cutscene. As it can move your whole party onto your aoe, lame way to lose a tough fight you won.
I am doing a core run with a kinetic knight aeon the synergy is very good.
Also, your point about the tradeoff from wearing the Kinetic Diadem head slot item is inaccurate. The bonuses that headpieces provide to you - just like the physical stat bonuses that Belts provide to you - are Enhancement class bonuses. This means that if you are a Dark Elementalist or Overwhelming Soul, you can still wear the Kinetic Diadem without fear, and simply make sure that someone in your party is casting Fox's Cunning or Eagle's Splendor on you (which is VERY EASY to do). Those buffs are Enhancement type buffs and do not stack with the headdress buff.
I disagree because those spells are capped at +4 while the headpieces are capped at +8. So at the end of the day you still have to make a choice about what is more important to you which is counter productive.
Agreed, but those cap out at +4 unless you are a brown fur, and you can get head pieces up to +6 or +8 if that is important to you.
@@SlanderedGaming That's true, though you could always add a Brown-Fur Transmuter to your party if you're that concerned about the difference.
Not arguing the point that base class is best version of Kineticist, though. That's absolutely true. Good video
Those bonuses are miniscule at best compared to the diadems. Also there are items for other slots that can give bonuses, especially with midnight isles having the mask in the first set of islands giving +6 cha and wisdom.
Your biggest issue with the class seemed to be hurting your allies in real time mode. I play a game like this virtually 100% in turn based mode, would that negate those problems or are the AoE spell abilities always centered on an opponent? I know like the Alchemist bombs had a huge issue in Kingmaker as I often struggled to keep my characters safe, since they targeted on character then did splash damage, and most the time my party members where in the blast radius.
I do not have the game yet, but am looking to see if it is good or worth it, now everything is out, I bought Kingmaker for like $12 with all the DLC, so have been waiting here as well, but watching these to get a feel for the game, and get excited for a character to play.
Playing wrath solo, pure kinetic knight dual wielding kinetic energy fire blade and dagger weapon finnese, 6 attacks per round with 7 burn at max level. Found dagger that enhanced touch attack, hitting pretty hard with blade. Cant gather energy, but i dont need to. 51 ac fighting defensively, shroud of water, Trickster mythic path for crit build. Skeletal merchant sells diadem, and ring that doubles crit range for blast, and actually stacks with improved crits. Chapter 4 greater diadem at docks merchant with big bag of holding for dlc players
Also until sarconis patch blade tornado for some reason was free of burn for kinetic knight, and all infusion used with base kinetic blade are free of burn - no idea is bugged or not.
For me Dark Kineticist is a bit higher on the list. on the one hand you don't need to sactrifice the helmet slot you can just use a fox's cunning with enduring spells. as you dont have spell slots its a static bonus anyway. I barely lose anything. Why I like it: I love when my character is a skill monkey. Having Intelligence as my main stat is something I really like - I even go human with fast learner... Inmo I dont lose much to have versatility even without my team. (for paradox, or solo instances). Is it better than base kineticist? no. But for me it's still at least A+ - currently running one as a trickster, she will get a mage spellbook (also int based) and prooobably athletics (full base attack bonus, immunities). I could make a better "powerbuild" but many skills work well with trickster and this is just great so far with the added shenanigans.
Fox Cunning is tapped out at +4 while headpieces are capped at +8. So you are definitely making a sacrifice to have Intelligence as the main stat.
@@SlanderedGaming certainly I am making a sacrifice but... I get +8 headbands for the last 10 minutes of the game. For 2 points of Int get 4 maxed skills for most of the game. Which is arguably just a preference - As most of the time I can use my companions As specialists. I just like my main to be self sufficient
@@SlanderedGaming The Elemental Overflow bonus caps at +6 attack roll when hitting lvl 18. Dark Elementalists only really need INT 22 to be able to use Soul Power 6 times, so a starting 16 int will be enough (+2 permanent bonus from book or potion and +4 Fox cunning 24h duration). This class uses DEX to attack and set your 1/2 dmg "spells" DCs. INT is only used for pointless infusion effects wich any relevant enemy will save anyway.
First time I beat the game was with a EE + Aeon build, deadly earth'd my way through it all.
Yup smooth sailing for sure. Doing this makes me think about going through Kingmaker as a Kineticist.
@@SlanderedGaming I never beat that one despite over 200 hours in it. Too many crashes, bugs, hidden timers, really badly designed dungeons/areas.
Kineticists are really good but they are missing too much from the PnP counterpart unfortunately. Which makes the base kineticists superior in almost every way since it is missing much of the elements, infusions and wild talents that could sinergist with the other archetypes
Interesting so things are more even between them in Tabletop? That's good to know.
@@SlanderedGaming not exactly for the blaster base kineticists, but for the archetypes and alternative builds yes, knight is the best example, since he would have access to whip, whirlwind and I think a teleport as well. Also there are some options to play a more active support or debuffer role as well
Blood sounds like someone played too much Dragon Age. Or liked Blood Bending a bit too much. Either way. Maybe too much My Hero Academia?
Dark sounds like they intended it to go with Lich; but you make an excellent point about the conflicting head piece problem.
Elemental Engine - I guess it needs a little more oil to make it really motor? (I could just sing Life Is A Highway, but I just checked and my brake light is on)
Kinetic Knight - I think someone has a Psylocke body pillow (not that I'm judging... necessarily)
* I think they probably intended it to be a more focused Boss Killer type. Then forgot to really add that power into the subclass.
Psylocke in the comics = Do Not *Censored* with- but man, those curves might make it worth the risk. Should we ask Arue?
Overwhelming Soul - Maybe someone has some insecurity. They're "over" something alright.
As Robin would say from Young Justice, it's more- I'm Whelmed.
Psychokineticist: They named it because you'd have to be Norman Bates to take it, didn't they? o. O
Still kinda want to try a build with this as a pure class run. My problem is when it comes to Risk Vs. Reward playstyles; I'm much less risk, and much more reward focused.
Thanks for the hand up. I will say I think someone designed the attribute changes thinking not every player wouldn't trade off a bit of attributes for less risk even if it does less damage.
The problem like you said is that the one BIG item is the diadem that gives you direct damage boost that doesn't count from attributes. The one I found in the beginning of the game that Anevia reveals in the first act, wasn't an insignificant boost as far as I could tell by the Di numbers on it. And it's probably not even the best version in the game. I'd take a belt that gives me +4 Str & Con AND the diadem thank you very much, over a helm that makes me choose X mental state OR the diadem that directly boosts blast damage by a LOT.
One day I'll do a playthrough as a true balls to the wall Blood Kineticist, reciting DA lines the entire time. LOL
@@SlanderedGaming Thanks if you do - I could use the laugh : )
So, kineticist is a blaster mage wthout magic book ? Honestly I dont know how it work
God, it's immediately obvious that you didn't play for the Dark Elementalist and Psychokinetic. Dark Elementalist arranges Armageddon through Earth+Fire or Blue flame is a wall and removes burnout on garbage. The Psychokinetic is protected by Will because its class attribute is Wisdom, which gives more Will. And the kinetic should not burn out with garbage enemies, but it should with bosses. Their rank is A+
Dark Elementalist gets a boost in my final ranking video. Psychokinetic's ranking is accurate in comparison to Kineticist.
Not sure its the most powerful class in the game. As far as damage goes, many martial classes can do a lot more single target damage. As for effective damage, a high DC illusionist with Weird cannot be beaten.
As for solo potential, lategame its certainly very strong, but pre deadly earth, its actually not all that strong. Getting to level 13 as a solo kineticist would be rather painful. Particularly when accounting for mythic paths, a nature oracle angel is a much better bet.
Single target it's definitely not the strongest I was thinking more so how much damage it accumulates against enemy groups. I wouldn't count an Illusionist in that sense because it's autokill which can be resisted and not damage which cannot be resisted after taking Ascendant Element. In my personal opinion soloing the game is painful in general and not something I would ever do so I'll defer to your judgement. LOL
i love this class, but unfortunately, it doesn't really work in turn based mode.
I mean, it technically does, but "gather power" which is essential if you want to use anything other than normal kinetic blast, works every other turn, while it supposed to use your move/standard/full action to lower the burn cost.
but other than that, i think this class is amazing and interesting.
Beat the game as a pure Psychokineticist with the Azata Mythic Path, and I still don't fully grasp the class LOL
Edit: I didn't know this was ranked so poorly, now I don't know how I made it through the game haha
Rankings don't rly mean they're terrible or unuseable, just that there are better options that can make the game easier. Also these rankings are subjective, it's someone's opinion, for example Elemental Engine is usually accepted to be a decent-to-very strong archetype, but here he ranks it a D and says there's no reason to use it based on personal opinions of the feature descriptions.
It's a Kineticist, therefore it's super powerful. It gets ranked low here because the base Kineticist is so clearly better that by comparison it's worse
Yup like has already been said this is all subjective and the rankings are low based on Kineticist being so good.
Black Panther gets a B-, that's rough.
I didn't even think of the class as Black Panther but that's actually on point. LOL
I'm wondering if anything is going to get an F.
I know he isn't doing prestige classes, but the Assassin prestige class is close to F rank because of the demon's immunity to poison.
@@Alorand I did hear some rumblings about them adding a mythic ability to the game along the same vein as ascended element, but that would instead let you ignore that pesky poison immunity.
Stinking Cloud, my love! How I have missed thee ❤️
I am going to review Prestige Classes and some classes will absolutely get an F. In fact one of them will this week. :)
Earth Kineticist booooooooo! Seriously, Bowling Infusion breaks the game to the point of not even being fun to play anymore, and the change to Azata so that you can't double up Kinetic Blasts was baffling. Everyone should play that form of Kineticist one time just to understand what the problem is and then promptly ignore it. Also, justice for Kinetic Knights, Kinetic Whip should be in the game!
Yeah one of these days I'll do a Kineticist run where I go all out with Deadly Earth and Bowling Infusion.
What is even the point of the Kineticist subclasses if they're all borderline useless?
I wouldn't call them useless but they are definitely not as good as the base class.
You made a big error about elemental engine - burnout gives EE the benefits of supercharge at maximum burn. And as EE, you pretty much always want to be at a maximum burn. And its on level 3.
The only downside of elemental engine is that you're the ultimate glass cannon, always one hit away from being downed. But with all the defensive buffs in the game its not that big of a deal.
Good call out not sure how I missed that. In that case I would rank it at B for the same reasons as Dark Elementalist.
Greater Enduring spells and brown fur is a thing so you should have 4-8 of your main stat regardless of items. Since there is only 1-2 +8 items in the game at most you’re likely missing +1 mod.
Most people don't play with a Brown Fur in their party since none of the party members smoothly slide into that role.
I feel like you discount the change to mental attributes just a tad too much. It does suck having the conflict with the head item slot, but what they do allow is interesting multiclass opportunities. Kineticist is the only class that uses CON (Well...every class uses CON but you know what I mean) while there are lots of interesting options for Charisma and Wisdom...Intelligence is a bit harder since it's mostly used by pure casters that don't work as well multiclass. But I am sure there is something you could do.
Actually, wait, are you just judging these as a straight 1-20 class? That would make this aspect pointless for your ratings. I guess I understand.
Yup I am judging these classes 1-20. LMFAO When I think there are cool multiclass opportunities I do try to mention it but if a class isn't good on it's own that counts against it.
Hello everybody hope you having a fantastic day .lol.....rinse and repeat
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Have no idea how to play a kinteticist. xD
My 25 Base classes video breaks it down in game in a way that is hopefully clear: ua-cam.com/video/9JKzVhpzL_8/v-deo.html
Kinetic Knight is absolutely awful. No way its a B- if elemental engine is a D. Kinetic knight uses only 2 form infusions, kinetic blade and kinetic whirlwind, and does both far worse than the base kineticist. For kinetic blade, the loss of metakinesis is -33% damage at level 19, as you get burn cost free empower, which for any other kineticist means you get +50% damage on kinetic blade attacks (as you can only do full attack actions with zero burn costs, its very important).
The minus -1 burn cost to kinetic blade is inconsequential for the most part. Using gather power is only a problem if you can get more than 1 attack on a full attack action, and this is only possible at level 5 at earliest with haste. You get infusion specialisation 1 at level 5, so can use kinetic blade with no burn cost even without gather power. At best, it allows you to use substance infusions on your kinetic blade a few levels earlier, and by endgame, no realistic substance infusion kinetic blade combo would have a burn cost.
As for whirlwind, as its one attack per round not a full attack action, there is no issue using gather power and metakinesis, neither of which kinetic knight can do, so whilst other kineticists can spam composite, empowered and maximised whirlwinds, the kinetic knight is stuck with the base damage, which is well under a 3rd of the damage.
As for armour and shield usage, you would be far better off taking water blast, expanded defence, taking the water shield, weapon finesse and pumping dexterity. You will have much better AC (especially touch AC) in the long run, much better save DCs on things like eruption, much better reflex saves and initiative.
So at the only two things they can do, they are much weaker. And then there is the loss of cloud infusion, wall infusion, deadly earth, eruption and so on. Avoid this archetype like the plague.
I disagree, Kinetic Knight is not as good as Elemental Engine or Kineticist but it's not awful. A round of full melee touch attacks with Whirlwind is nothing to sneeze at. It definitely stands up on it's own just not as great as it's peers.
@@SlanderedGaming I am not disputing that kinetic blade and kinetic whirlwind are useful infusions. But if thats all you can do, you had better do it well. Kinetic knight does both substantially worse and loses all the other infusions to boot. It is a drastic downgrade, which cannot be justified at all.
I did kinetic knight Valerie in Kingmaker, her attack roll is the lowest among team and yet she hit more often than others, if you use elemental sword then it's melee touch attack, if physical blade then is normal melee attack, and its kinetic knight, it use to tank, attack and also debuff enemies, when all enemies surrounding you, you can just use whirlwind to debuff them all, and end up Valerie became the most tanky and hit hard after mid game.
But of course what hit kinetic knight in wrath the most is, if you use melee touch attack, most demon have huge elementals resistance, means if you don't get mystic assendent element, it's very hard to use.
@@violau8550 Kinetic blade is certainly useful. But kinetic knight does it worse than other kineticists, which is ridiculous given the theme of the archetype. And yes, ascendant element is a must, but thats true of any energy kineticist.
@notalefty999 I did use psychokeneticist, it just...too OP, just go alone with stealth, and put deadly earth at the majority of enemies, and watch them burn to ashes, it felt like Chessing, kinetic knight just felt more....urban, more adventures style, other kineticist just felt like "Beware! I am a god and here come to punish you all! Taste my wrath!"
real time is trash
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Most boring class