10:30 By this logic, everything is an rpg. Enemies have hit points in platform games like Mario. Do we consider Mario an rpg because Bowsers health gets lower? Of course not. Zelda is an action adventure. Just because it's a fantasy setting and he has a sword, it doesn't make it an rpg. What even is the point of genre if people are just going to blatantly disregard the building blocks of genres in the first place? It's like me calling Final Fantasy a visual novel because it has dialogue and visuals.
Right. We make new genres for genre defining games (metroidvanias). When game reviewers call Horizon Zero Dawn an RPG, I die a little bit inside. These games just have JRPG elements
That was a pretty sweet intro transition! I think some others you could add to the list would be Okami, Lord of the Rings: The Third Age, and pretty much all of the monster collecting games. And hear me out, maybe; just maybe, Oregon Trail...
'JRPGs are always creating new mechanics that are adopted by other genres.' Bingo, that's why some people look at games such as these and think 'hey, this is kinda JRPGish.'
I'm so glad you covered this topic, Brandon. My favorite "genre" of game is 2D platformer that is JRPG, and so SotN has been a deep favorite of mine for a long time. People that lean into MV dislike the "excess"that the game has, but this same excess has always been something I enjoyed as a JRPG fan. Over the years, I've always, always kept my eyes out for game that scratch the itch of JRPG and MV, as both have a lot in common: growth, ability-based or story-based progression, and the reality or guise of a party working together. The games that I've found best illustrate this are: Astalon, tears of the earth; Ender Lilies, quietus of the knights (and its sequel, currently out), and Monster Sanctuary. Some strong contenders are Pheonotopia: awakening; Zelda 2, a favorite of mine; and Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia, Adventure Time DS, and Elliott Quest, these las three I haven't played yet. Something I've noticed over the years is that many who are really good at JRPG's are not good at platforming, and many who are really good at action platformers do not have the patience or focus to complete JRPG's. There may be something to this,and I hope over time they make more games like Zelda 2, Astalon, and Ender Lilies; games which speak to the marriage of 2D action-platforming. (possibly strict MV's) and JRPG's, as this marriage is the genre that just speaks to me the most.
@@JustTheGems It's really great. As someone who enjoys both genres, it really scratches the JRPG itch of customization, as you essentially create a "party" of characters that tag along with you throughout the game, and these can be mixed, matched, and leveled up as well. I highly recommend it!
Well, if Symphony of the Night is a JRPG, then I argue that every Castlevania represented in the Advance and Dominus Collection - Circle of the Moon, Harmony of Dissonance, Portrait of Ruin, Order of Ecclesia and the Sorrow series involving Soma Cruz especially - are JRPGs for the same reasons.
Zelda is as much an action rpg as Terranigma, Gaia, Alunddra, some Mystical Ninja games, Seiken Densetsu etc. The borders between Action Adventures and JRPGs were always fluent and I don´t consider games like Unccharted or Tomb Raider as Action Adventures. Action Advventures as well as JRPGs are japanese interpretations of CRPGs which are as well only reduced iterations of pen and paper.
The Yakiza series before the 7th one are what I like to call "JRPGs with alternative battle systems", which includes games like the recent Captain Tsubasa game or Racing Lagoon
Honestly, I love that you threw in Castlevania SotN here. It takes parts of JRPGs and combines them into a Castlevania gameplay with Metroid style exploration. I know that fellow fans of JRPGs would enjoy the MetroidVanias If they haven't already tried them
Absolutely! JRPG's and MV's have so much in common when it comes to exploration and growth, and typically anyone who likes a good JRPG will also love a good MV. There's only one major thing that might turn someone away, and that's the platforming.
I agree with most of the cases you're making here. One I'd like to propose is Mega Man! There are several examples across Legends, Battle Network, Star Force, Zero, and ZX. X Command Mission is blatantly a more traditional turn based jrpg. Azure Striker Gunvolt also checks out, being a spiritual successor to Mega Man Zero and ZX. Really agree when it comes to Zelda and Yakuza. If we're evaluating games based on content, Ys and Zelda are close enough that they could pass for cousins! Sure Ys has more of a leg to stand on because of its more traditional quest system, stats / levels and stronger story focus with the modern Ys titles, but the similarities are definitely there. Majora's Mask has Adol's quest journal in the form of the Bombers' Notebook! The Wild duology use a more Ys-like quest system and a certain item does let you see numbers on enemy HP bars. Your equipment also has stats and attributes. Overall, I think forcing a specific gameplay style or combat expectation on jrpgs ignores the spirit of the genre and misses the point. Several SRPGs like Fire Emblem and Disgaea, farm sims like Rune Factory and Harvestella, Musous like Fate/Extella, and action / misc cases like Xenoblade, Ys and Tokyo Xanadu have all been generally agreed by many to count and none of them are perfect fits into the turn based mold. There's already a clear precedent for exceptions to some arbitrary rulebook of what is or isn't a jrpg.
I always thought JRPG's were RPG's based on anime, but it seems I may have been wrong. The traditional anime style often uses sharp lines, but as of late adapted smoother lines to appeal to the western market. Now what do all these games have in common? A lighthouse resembling a rocket ship; The missing fangs on a vampire; A star that isn't in the sky, A party hat on a dead body, The ears of a tall elf... I seem to have forgotten the 'point' I was trying to make. 4:28 I think the bottom line here is "JRPG's are meant to be fully explored" which makes them great candidates for 'deathless' runs... and not 'hitless' or 'speed' runs 😁
we thought of FFIV etc as JRPGs. never thought of the first zelda as an RPG. The difference comes down to the fact that RPGs in the 80s took their style and mechanics from the new dungeons & dragons tabletop game. That means: story, weapons with stats, characters with stats, towns and dungeons to visit. The original zelda had dungeons, and that's it. Not even any magic spells.
I played Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky a couple years ago and it feels like one of those games that would be trapped in the "not quite a JRPG but is a JRPG" sphere. You level up and your party gains stats, turn-basedish combat, use items, etc. but beyond that might not be classified as a JRPG. Which is interesting to consider since I think the mystery dungeon genre started from a Dragon Quest spinoff.
Clair Obscur Expedition 33 is hopefully the beginning of more western game projects with JRPG hallmarks applied. They had me immediately at “turn based” and i was not expecting that. Thats going to perk up the ears of many JRPG players. I will likely refer to it as a JRPG in the future, whether im off base or not
Incase people are unaware the Harvest Moon series changed its title to Story of Season back in 2014. Any game from then going forward called “Harvest Moon” is not part of the series.
Virtual Trading Card Games can be argued to be JRPGs as well. I'll take Yugioh GX Tag Force as an example; You kind of do level up. You start with very basic deck, but by beating duelists you get money which you improve your deck; that's your level up system. Tag Force 1 also takes another aspect: affinity. In order to participate the tourtament you have to get a partner until the end of the semester, which you do so by talking to them, giving them gifts, and dueling them like Persona for example.
Yakuza is the only series in that video that I have first hand knowledge of and I'm with you on that. Yakuza felt like a JRPG to me from the first game on. As far as I'm concerned the type of combat doesn't change the broader genre of a game, maybe its subtype at best. I mean, if tabletop RPGs have succesfully experimented with pretty much every RPG tropes, including games without classes, xp or levels as soon as the '80s, a video game can be a RPG or a JRPG without using turn based system.
I would add Mario + Rabbids: Kingdom Battle & Sparks of Hope as part of a RPG. People claim they aren't part of RPG'S because the game is more of a strategy game. But in truth, they also have RPG elements. It has weapons that increase attack stats & different effects like burn, freeze, vamp and so on. Characters can level up to increase HP, Magics & learning abilities, it has turned based where the hero attacks first and the enemies attack the next and via versa, you have worlds to explore for progression or finding treasures, each goes through chapters of the story progression just like Paper Mario and more. There Tactical RPG mixed with Strategy. Similar to something like Final Fantasy Tactics & Fire Emblem. Or Xcom as many put it. It is part of a RPG series.
0 days since you've mentioned Harvestella?? I'm 10 hours into playing it for the first time, and those 0 days aren't enough! More people need to get into this game already 😅
I love Rpgs/Jrpgs, I just finished Sea of Stars in like a week - it is such a fun game! I will wait a few months and play it again. I am play Monster Hunter Ruined Wings now. - also a fun game.
Leaving 13 Sentinels off when I know you've included before feels like very specific trolling, but I feel like it's just granted status based on look and feel even though it's a VN with a tower defense component.
I will always be on the side of Zelda is not a JRPG but I put that to rest. It does nothing for my life to die on that hill. I'd rather live a happy life.
I think adding Castlevania SotN to this list is a great example of why some people split too many hairs by arguing that it can't possibly be a JRPG, but it has many elements of any other action JRPG, so I certainly think it can be classified as one. In the second Zelda game, you actually do level up. Let's take another example of a game that I would consider to be an action JRPG but most would call it a Beat 'em up: Guardian Heroes for the Saturn. As you play, you earn experience points to level up various attributes such as strength, vitality, intelligence, agility, etc. There is a story with multiple branch points too. Sounds an awful like an action JRPG to me...
Here is how I define a JRPG. Does the game have RPG elements? Yes? Good. It's an RPG. Is it made by a Japanese studio / publisher? Yes? Then it's a JRPG. If it wasn't made in Japan, then it's not a JRPG.
I have pretty much the opposite view: I think a jrpg is defined enough to be it's own genre. If a game looks plays and feels like a jrpg, but just happens to be made outside japan (for example ara fell) its still a jrpg. Also just because a game is made in Japan and has rpg elements doesn't automatically make it a jrpg (for example soulsborne).
@@DrNiper While I don't agree with your opinion, I totally respect it. I should note however that I feel terms like JRPG and WRPG are a lot less useful then they once were when describing the experience of how a game plays thanks to cross-cultural influences (which I think is absolutely wonderful, personally) so I only use the term JRPG as a reference to its place of origin. Instead I prefer terms like action RPG, strategy RPG and turn based RPG. I would then add to that descriptor whether or not its story driven or bameplay driven.
@ I would somewhat agree with your point on cultural influences. Though games still usually lean towards one or the other in their overall "package" of influences, leading to the game feeling more like one of them. I also think that action-, strategy- etc. definers are good, but I'd add that a game can be an action JRPG (YS series for example), or action RPG (I drop the W on that. Example would be Soulsbourne, or to use a different one The Witcher series) Story driven vs gameplay driven descriptor is interesting, because I'd say that's one of the cornerstones of JRPG's. They have usually been more story and character focused.
I still can't see Zelda as JRPG, even though it's got RPG elements 😅 Great video though, it definitely seems like such a grey area with what does or doesn't define a JRPG, haha.
A game is an RPG only if you can play different roles in it. Combat, stats and sub-quests don't necessarily have to be in it. Only the "being able to play different roles" part. Contrary to WRPGs that let you create your character from scratch (and then build it piece by piece with every level up), JRPGs usually let you play different roles on a higher level: JRPGs usually let you play as different (and mostly pre-defined) characters altogether by letting you choose which one of them will get into your active party or do a certain action at a given time. That's how JRPGs traditionally do role-playing. The J in JRPG means "Japanese-style". It doesn't necessarily mean "coming from Japan". The same way as Japanese people can do WRPGs (Dark Souls), Westerners can totally do JRPGs (LOTR The Third Age). Unlike champagne, ideas don't have geographical boundaries. Also these sub-genres can often intersect (see Xenoblade X) so these definitions can't be 100% accurate but... they don't need to be: RPGs are all brothers. They all descend from the same common ancestor: Dungeons & Dragons.
You are certainly controversial with this one 😂 I haven't played most of these games, but I've always thought Zelda was JRPG-adjacent, like an action JRPG. It certainly has many elements of a JRPG and it is by Nintendo. RPGs are also blurring the lines these days as most RPGs now are action.
I wouldn't have considered it so before watching this, but Master Detective Archives Raincode is ABSOLUTELY a JRPG. It has experience points, levels - of a sort - a skill tree, side quests, dungeons, collectable character episodes, and combat. Heck you even have a sword. Also it's areat game FINALLY no longer stuck on the Switch. It also has one heck of a JRPG like story.
If its a "non-jrpg" then its not a jrpg......, and you think if a game looks, and sounds like actual jrpgs (rpgs) even if it doesn't play like jrpgs (rpgs) even though how a game plays determines what kind of game a game is then it is a jrpg (rpg)?
“Stardew valley is a farming sim” enough said. Zelda is action adventure, to the moon is a narrative experience. Why would stats alone make something a jrpg? Are dnd video games jrpgs because they have stats? Yakuza 0-6 are action rpgs. This is all just my opinion, not trying to start anything. Keep doing you man.
Classic Action Adventures and JRPGs share the same dna by being simplified iterations of the same thing (CRPGs, which also are reduced iterations of Pen and Paper). Zelda can be considered an Action RPG as much as Mana, Terranigma, Soul Blazer, Gaia, Alundra and so on, they absolutely belong into the same category as jrpgs with menu based combat (weither turn based like FF1 or ATB like FF4.9 or any other hybrid system).
I would prefer JRPG's stuck to a more confined definition. So if I was asking about a game and someone said JRPG, I would know that involves usually turn based or timed combat of some kind with some sort of storyline progression, inventory, level progression through stats, etc. Including Zelda, Castlevania SOTN, etc seems off as they are different genres almost to themselves. If you asked about Okami or Tunic I would tell you its a Zelda game. If you asked about Hollow Knight or Ori I would tell you it was a Metroidvania.
So by your definition FF-IV-IX are no (J)RPGs because they are not turn based (as well as XI, XII, XIII,XIV, XV, XVI, FVII Remake, Chrono Trigger, Grandia), Skyrim is no RPG because there is no classic level progression etc. Games like Alundra and Zelda do have stats by the way, they are not presented in a numeric way but they are still there.
@ They aren’t turn based. Not at all. Turn based isn’t a synonym for menu based inputs. Turn based means turn after turn in a set order. Those are atb systems where the action of a character is based on a time condition. Please get your facts straight. You are wrong.
@@JB-mm5ff whole point of calling a game by a genre name is so f you were describing a game to someone, saying somethng is a Metroidvania or Zelda game, they sort of know what you mean. RPG or JRPG has become so misued it no longer means anything.
Here is my mildly hot take on all that. If To the Moon is a JRPG, then other walking simulators like Firewatch and Life is Strange are JRPGs. If Symphony of the Night is a JRPG, then other metroidvanias with stars and skills like Ori and Hollow Knight are JRPGs. If Stardew Valley is a JRPG, then other games with farming and character interactions like The Sims and Animal Crossing are JRPGs. Yakuza is a JRPG. If Corpse Party is a JRPG, see if To the Moon is a JRPG. If Zelda is a JRPG... Then I'm just not talking to you dude because you're completely delirious 😂
My definition of RPG is: a game where your abilities are quantified, and can be improved over the course of the game. (basically stats and leveling) If it doesn't do that, it's not an RPG. A JRPG is an RPG following the legacy of the Japanese designed RPGs from the 80s and 90s. Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, SMT, Ys, Phantasy Star, etc. If it's not an RPG, it can't be a JRPG. So, I would absolutely put Symphony of the Night in the JRPG category. It's not even a question. To the Moon, however, isn't an RPG of any kind. It's more of a visual novel with extra steps. Zelda is a lot more debatable; sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. As a side note, if you're going to say that an RPG is a game where you "play a role." I very much disagree. In Call of Duty you "play the role" of a soldier. In Street Fighter you "play the role" of someone getting in frequent fistfights. In Pac man you "play the role" of a round yellow guy that wants to each a bunch of dots. By that logic roughly 99% of games would be RPGs, and the term would be utterly meaningless.
Clair Obscur Expedition 33 is hopefully the beginning of more western game projects with JRPG hallmarks applied. They had me immediately at “turn based” and i was not expecting that. Thats going to perk up the ears of many JRPG players. I will likely refer to it as a JRPG in the future, whether im off base or not
10:30 By this logic, everything is an rpg. Enemies have hit points in platform games like Mario. Do we consider Mario an rpg because Bowsers health gets lower? Of course not. Zelda is an action adventure. Just because it's a fantasy setting and he has a sword, it doesn't make it an rpg. What even is the point of genre if people are just going to blatantly disregard the building blocks of genres in the first place? It's like me calling Final Fantasy a visual novel because it has dialogue and visuals.
Right. We make new genres for genre defining games (metroidvanias). When game reviewers call Horizon Zero Dawn an RPG, I die a little bit inside. These games just have JRPG elements
That was a pretty sweet intro transition! I think some others you could add to the list would be Okami, Lord of the Rings: The Third Age, and pretty much all of the monster collecting games. And hear me out, maybe; just maybe, Oregon Trail...
To the Moon is a must play. Approach it like a 4 hour movie, and bring lots of tissues.
'JRPGs are always creating new mechanics that are adopted by other genres.'
Bingo, that's why some people look at games such as these and think 'hey, this is kinda JRPGish.'
I'm so glad you covered this topic, Brandon. My favorite "genre" of game is 2D platformer that is JRPG, and so SotN has been a deep favorite of mine for a long time. People that lean into MV dislike the "excess"that the game has, but this same excess has always been something I enjoyed as a JRPG fan.
Over the years, I've always, always kept my eyes out for game that scratch the itch of JRPG and MV, as both have a lot in common: growth, ability-based or story-based progression, and the reality or guise of a party working together. The games that I've found best illustrate this are: Astalon, tears of the earth; Ender Lilies, quietus of the knights (and its sequel, currently out), and Monster Sanctuary. Some strong contenders are Pheonotopia: awakening; Zelda 2, a favorite of mine; and Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia, Adventure Time DS, and Elliott Quest, these las three I haven't played yet.
Something I've noticed over the years is that many who are really good at JRPG's are not good at platforming, and many who are really good at action platformers do not have the patience or focus to complete JRPG's. There may be something to this,and I hope over time they make more games like Zelda 2, Astalon, and Ender Lilies; games which speak to the marriage of 2D action-platforming. (possibly strict MV's) and JRPG's, as this marriage is the genre that just speaks to me the most.
I'm glad you mentioned Ender Lilies because I've been thinking about getting that one
@@JustTheGems It's really great. As someone who enjoys both genres, it really scratches the JRPG itch of customization, as you essentially create a "party" of characters that tag along with you throughout the game, and these can be mixed, matched, and leveled up as well. I highly recommend it!
Well, if Symphony of the Night is a JRPG, then I argue that every Castlevania represented in the Advance and Dominus Collection - Circle of the Moon, Harmony of Dissonance, Portrait of Ruin, Order of Ecclesia and the Sorrow series involving Soma Cruz especially - are JRPGs for the same reasons.
Im in the camp that says , if there is no combat then it isnt a JRPG ... at that point it might just be a visual novel.
Zelda is as much an action rpg as Terranigma, Gaia, Alunddra, some Mystical Ninja games, Seiken Densetsu etc.
The borders between Action Adventures and JRPGs were always fluent and I don´t consider games like Unccharted or Tomb Raider as Action Adventures. Action Advventures as well as JRPGs are japanese interpretations of CRPGs which are as well only reduced iterations of pen and paper.
The whole time I was playing Yakuza Kiwami I thought I was playing an action RPG.
The Yakiza series before the 7th one are what I like to call "JRPGs with alternative battle systems", which includes games like the recent Captain Tsubasa game or Racing Lagoon
Honestly, I love that you threw in Castlevania SotN here. It takes parts of JRPGs and combines them into a Castlevania gameplay with Metroid style exploration. I know that fellow fans of JRPGs would enjoy the MetroidVanias If they haven't already tried them
I agree! They're a really cool blend of ideas.
Absolutely! JRPG's and MV's have so much in common when it comes to exploration and growth, and typically anyone who likes a good JRPG will also love a good MV. There's only one major thing that might turn someone away, and that's the platforming.
Ready to read the comments on this one! 😂🍿🥤
I agree with most of the cases you're making here. One I'd like to propose is Mega Man! There are several examples across Legends, Battle Network, Star Force, Zero, and ZX. X Command Mission is blatantly a more traditional turn based jrpg. Azure Striker Gunvolt also checks out, being a spiritual successor to Mega Man Zero and ZX.
Really agree when it comes to Zelda and Yakuza. If we're evaluating games based on content, Ys and Zelda are close enough that they could pass for cousins! Sure Ys has more of a leg to stand on because of its more traditional quest system, stats / levels and stronger story focus with the modern Ys titles, but the similarities are definitely there. Majora's Mask has Adol's quest journal in the form of the Bombers' Notebook! The Wild duology use a more Ys-like quest system and a certain item does let you see numbers on enemy HP bars. Your equipment also has stats and attributes.
Overall, I think forcing a specific gameplay style or combat expectation on jrpgs ignores the spirit of the genre and misses the point. Several SRPGs like Fire Emblem and Disgaea, farm sims like Rune Factory and Harvestella, Musous like Fate/Extella, and action / misc cases like Xenoblade, Ys and Tokyo Xanadu have all been generally agreed by many to count and none of them are perfect fits into the turn based mold. There's already a clear precedent for exceptions to some arbitrary rulebook of what is or isn't a jrpg.
Yeah, Mega Man is a really interesting one to consider, they've experimented with JRPG elements more than most other action series.
I always thought JRPG's were RPG's based on anime, but it seems I may have been wrong. The traditional anime style often uses sharp lines, but as of late adapted smoother lines to appeal to the western market. Now what do all these games have in common? A lighthouse resembling a rocket ship; The missing fangs on a vampire; A star that isn't in the sky, A party hat on a dead body, The ears of a tall elf... I seem to have forgotten the 'point' I was trying to make.
4:28 I think the bottom line here is "JRPG's are meant to be fully explored" which makes them great candidates for 'deathless' runs... and not 'hitless' or 'speed' runs 😁
I've always thought all Zeldas were action JRPGs. I was pretty shocked when I starting noticing people didn't think that.
we thought of FFIV etc as JRPGs. never thought of the first zelda as an RPG.
The difference comes down to the fact that RPGs in the 80s took their style and mechanics from the new dungeons & dragons tabletop game. That means: story, weapons with stats, characters with stats, towns and dungeons to visit. The original zelda had dungeons, and that's it. Not even any magic spells.
@@JB-mm5ff the 🗡️ shoots magic versions of itself and there are fairies and monsters. that's magic... anyway, no biggie. it's just what I think.
Holy shit Days Since I Mentioned Harvestella make me choke on the Snickers ice cream bar I was eating. You almost killed me...
I played Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky a couple years ago and it feels like one of those games that would be trapped in the "not quite a JRPG but is a JRPG" sphere. You level up and your party gains stats, turn-basedish combat, use items, etc. but beyond that might not be classified as a JRPG. Which is interesting to consider since I think the mystery dungeon genre started from a Dragon Quest spinoff.
Mystery Dungeon games are quite obviously JRPGs tbh
Clair Obscur Expedition 33 is hopefully the beginning of more western game projects with JRPG hallmarks applied. They had me immediately at “turn based” and i was not expecting that. Thats going to perk up the ears of many JRPG players. I will likely refer to it as a JRPG in the future, whether im off base or not
There are other examples like Chained Echoes (German studio, published in 2022) or Sea of Stars (Canadian studio, published in 2023).
Incase people are unaware the Harvest Moon series changed its title to Story of Season back in 2014. Any game from then going forward called “Harvest Moon” is not part of the series.
Virtual Trading Card Games can be argued to be JRPGs as well. I'll take Yugioh GX Tag Force as an example; You kind of do level up. You start with very basic deck, but by beating duelists you get money which you improve your deck; that's your level up system. Tag Force 1 also takes another aspect: affinity. In order to participate the tourtament you have to get a partner until the end of the semester, which you do so by talking to them, giving them gifts, and dueling them like Persona for example.
I agree with basically all of this. SoTN, Zelda, Yakuza for sure are. Nice video!
I just finished Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow last night and could certainly classify it as JRPG as well as MetroidVania. And it's an absolute banger!
Yakuza is the only series in that video that I have first hand knowledge of and I'm with you on that. Yakuza felt like a JRPG to me from the first game on.
As far as I'm concerned the type of combat doesn't change the broader genre of a game, maybe its subtype at best.
I mean, if tabletop RPGs have succesfully experimented with pretty much every RPG tropes, including games without classes, xp or levels as soon as the '80s, a video game can be a RPG or a JRPG without using turn based system.
I would add Mario + Rabbids: Kingdom Battle & Sparks of Hope as part of a RPG. People claim they aren't part of RPG'S because the game is more of a strategy game. But in truth, they also have RPG elements. It has weapons that increase attack stats & different effects like burn, freeze, vamp and so on. Characters can level up to increase HP, Magics & learning abilities, it has turned based where the hero attacks first and the enemies attack the next and via versa, you have worlds to explore for progression or finding treasures, each goes through chapters of the story progression just like Paper Mario and more. There Tactical RPG mixed with Strategy. Similar to something like Final Fantasy Tactics & Fire Emblem. Or Xcom as many put it. It is part of a RPG series.
0 days since you've mentioned Harvestella?? I'm 10 hours into playing it for the first time, and those 0 days aren't enough! More people need to get into this game already 😅
Absolutely!!
I love Rpgs/Jrpgs, I just finished Sea of Stars in like a week - it is such a fun game! I will wait a few months and play it again. I am play Monster Hunter Ruined Wings now. - also a fun game.
Leaving 13 Sentinels off when I know you've included before feels like very specific trolling, but I feel like it's just granted status based on look and feel even though it's a VN with a tower defense component.
Yeah, it's still "debatable" but I consider the debate basically decided.
I will always be on the side of Zelda is not a JRPG but I put that to rest. It does nothing for my life to die on that hill. I'd rather live a happy life.
All games are JRPGs, including PacMan, Mario Kart and Klondike Solitaire. :P
I think adding Castlevania SotN to this list is a great example of why some people split too many hairs by arguing that it can't possibly be a JRPG, but it has many elements of any other action JRPG, so I certainly think it can be classified as one. In the second Zelda game, you actually do level up. Let's take another example of a game that I would consider to be an action JRPG but most would call it a Beat 'em up: Guardian Heroes for the Saturn. As you play, you earn experience points to level up various attributes such as strength, vitality, intelligence, agility, etc. There is a story with multiple branch points too. Sounds an awful like an action JRPG to me...
This made me finally buy to the moon. If you like that you should try anything made by stranga games. Awesome little jrpg feeling horror games
Do you level up in To the Moon?
Here is how I define a JRPG. Does the game have RPG elements? Yes? Good. It's an RPG. Is it made by a Japanese studio / publisher? Yes? Then it's a JRPG. If it wasn't made in Japan, then it's not a JRPG.
French toast
I have pretty much the opposite view: I think a jrpg is defined enough to be it's own genre. If a game looks plays and feels like a jrpg, but just happens to be made outside japan (for example ara fell) its still a jrpg. Also just because a game is made in Japan and has rpg elements doesn't automatically make it a jrpg (for example soulsborne).
@@DrNiper While I don't agree with your opinion, I totally respect it. I should note however that I feel terms like JRPG and WRPG are a lot less useful then they once were when describing the experience of how a game plays thanks to cross-cultural influences (which I think is absolutely wonderful, personally) so I only use the term JRPG as a reference to its place of origin.
Instead I prefer terms like action RPG, strategy RPG and turn based RPG. I would then add to that descriptor whether or not its story driven or bameplay driven.
@ I would somewhat agree with your point on cultural influences. Though games still usually lean towards one or the other in their overall "package" of influences, leading to the game feeling more like one of them.
I also think that action-, strategy- etc. definers are good, but I'd add that a game can be an action JRPG (YS series for example), or action RPG (I drop the W on that. Example would be Soulsbourne, or to use a different one The Witcher series)
Story driven vs gameplay driven descriptor is interesting, because I'd say that's one of the cornerstones of JRPG's. They have usually been more story and character focused.
Awesome video! I need to give Corpse Party a try!!!
Zelda 2 did have exp and levels too.
Love this vid concept. I’ve always argued that Zelda was an RPG.
I still can't see Zelda as JRPG, even though it's got RPG elements 😅 Great video though, it definitely seems like such a grey area with what does or doesn't define a JRPG, haha.
Yep yep, it's a whole lotta gray for sure, it's fun to talk about it
13 sentinels aegis rim
A game is an RPG only if you can play different roles in it.
Combat, stats and sub-quests don't necessarily have to be in it. Only the "being able to play different roles" part.
Contrary to WRPGs that let you create your character from scratch (and then build it piece by piece with every level up), JRPGs usually let you play different roles on a higher level: JRPGs usually let you play as different (and mostly pre-defined) characters altogether by letting you choose which one of them will get into your active party or do a certain action at a given time. That's how JRPGs traditionally do role-playing.
The J in JRPG means "Japanese-style". It doesn't necessarily mean "coming from Japan". The same way as Japanese people can do WRPGs (Dark Souls), Westerners can totally do JRPGs (LOTR The Third Age). Unlike champagne, ideas don't have geographical boundaries.
Also these sub-genres can often intersect (see Xenoblade X) so these definitions can't be 100% accurate but... they don't need to be: RPGs are all brothers. They all descend from the same common ancestor: Dungeons & Dragons.
You are certainly controversial with this one 😂
I haven't played most of these games, but I've always thought Zelda was JRPG-adjacent, like an action JRPG. It certainly has many elements of a JRPG and it is by Nintendo. RPGs are also blurring the lines these days as most RPGs now are action.
Yeah for sure, it took inspiration from -- and went on to inspire -- a bunch of JRPGs.
this is how I feel about Danganronpa. it just fits it lol
My unpopular one is that I include Mega Man Legends as a JRPG 😂😂😂😂. I don't care if it's wrong. I'll continue to do so.
Totally a JRPG ... but with guns. Upgrades, sidequests, a VERY JRPG story. ... Don't you even gain levels too?
I wouldn't have considered it so before watching this, but Master Detective Archives Raincode is ABSOLUTELY a JRPG. It has experience points, levels - of a sort - a skill tree, side quests, dungeons, collectable character episodes, and combat. Heck you even have a sword. Also it's areat game FINALLY no longer stuck on the Switch. It also has one heck of a JRPG like story.
If its a "non-jrpg" then its not a jrpg......, and you think if a game looks, and sounds like actual jrpgs (rpgs) even if it doesn't play like jrpgs (rpgs) even though how a game plays determines what kind of game a game is then it is a jrpg (rpg)?
Man everything is an RPG these days 😂
So what about Witcher 3 and Kingdom Come Deliverance? Also JRPG's?
I would classify them as Western RPGs, though at least with a property like The Witcher you could make an argument otherwise
“Stardew valley is a farming sim” enough said. Zelda is action adventure, to the moon is a narrative experience. Why would stats alone make something a jrpg? Are dnd video games jrpgs because they have stats? Yakuza 0-6 are action rpgs. This is all just my opinion, not trying to start anything. Keep doing you man.
Classic Action Adventures and JRPGs share the same dna by being simplified iterations of the same thing (CRPGs, which also are reduced iterations of Pen and Paper). Zelda can be considered an Action RPG as much as Mana, Terranigma, Soul Blazer, Gaia, Alundra and so on, they absolutely belong into the same category as jrpgs with menu based combat (weither turn based like FF1 or ATB like FF4.9 or any other hybrid system).
Well AD&D is what all RPGs are based upon. DND games would be considered western RPGs.
Yeah just throwing out some food for thought.
I would prefer JRPG's stuck to a more confined definition. So if I was asking about a game and someone said JRPG, I would know that involves usually turn based or timed combat of some kind with some sort of storyline progression, inventory, level progression through stats, etc. Including Zelda, Castlevania SOTN, etc seems off as they are different genres almost to themselves. If you asked about Okami or Tunic I would tell you its a Zelda game. If you asked about Hollow Knight or Ori I would tell you it was a Metroidvania.
So by your definition FF-IV-IX are no (J)RPGs because they are not turn based (as well as XI, XII, XIII,XIV, XV, XVI, FVII Remake, Chrono Trigger, Grandia), Skyrim is no RPG because there is no classic level progression etc.
Games like Alundra and Zelda do have stats by the way, they are not presented in a numeric way but they are still there.
We could say that Zelda, SOTN, etc, are platformers or adverture games with JRPG elements.
@@FelixS. My dude, FF4-9 and CT, grandia, etc are turn based. FFVII remake is not turned based.
@ They aren’t turn based. Not at all. Turn based isn’t a synonym for menu based inputs. Turn based means turn after turn in a set order. Those are atb systems where the action of a character is based on a time condition. Please get your facts straight. You are wrong.
@@JB-mm5ff whole point of calling a game by a genre name is so f you were describing a game to someone, saying somethng is a Metroidvania or Zelda game, they sort of know what you mean. RPG or JRPG has become so misued it no longer means anything.
3:37 We already have a genre for this. Games with stats, gears and levels is just a RPG. Why would it be a JRPG?
I'm thinking because of elements they use that are specifically from the Japanese style of RPGs
Here is my mildly hot take on all that.
If To the Moon is a JRPG, then other walking simulators like Firewatch and Life is Strange are JRPGs.
If Symphony of the Night is a JRPG, then other metroidvanias with stars and skills like Ori and Hollow Knight are JRPGs.
If Stardew Valley is a JRPG, then other games with farming and character interactions like The Sims and Animal Crossing are JRPGs.
Yakuza is a JRPG.
If Corpse Party is a JRPG, see if To the Moon is a JRPG.
If Zelda is a JRPG... Then I'm just not talking to you dude because you're completely delirious 😂
I've been called worse!
My definition of RPG is: a game where your abilities are quantified, and can be improved over the course of the game. (basically stats and leveling) If it doesn't do that, it's not an RPG.
A JRPG is an RPG following the legacy of the Japanese designed RPGs from the 80s and 90s. Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, SMT, Ys, Phantasy Star, etc. If it's not an RPG, it can't be a JRPG.
So, I would absolutely put Symphony of the Night in the JRPG category. It's not even a question. To the Moon, however, isn't an RPG of any kind. It's more of a visual novel with extra steps. Zelda is a lot more debatable; sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.
As a side note, if you're going to say that an RPG is a game where you "play a role." I very much disagree. In Call of Duty you "play the role" of a soldier. In Street Fighter you "play the role" of someone getting in frequent fistfights. In Pac man you "play the role" of a round yellow guy that wants to each a bunch of dots. By that logic roughly 99% of games would be RPGs, and the term would be utterly meaningless.
Haha yeah, I was kind of joking, like I was making a pedantic counterargument to a pedantic critique, that sort of thing.
He, no problem. I wasn't critiquing the video so much as heading off an obvious counterargument to my opinion.
Clair Obscur Expedition 33 is hopefully the beginning of more western game projects with JRPG hallmarks applied. They had me immediately at “turn based” and i was not expecting that. Thats going to perk up the ears of many JRPG players. I will likely refer to it as a JRPG in the future, whether im off base or not