Art Lore is a Plague on TikTok
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- Опубліковано 19 сер 2023
- hey guys!! this week we're talking about TikTok art lore. I hate it, how do you feel about art lore?? I'm not linking any of their content because I don't want to promote traffic to them, but if you'd like to find the original content, I have a public folder on my TikTok, and the search bar on that app yields pretty good results.
the link to the Kooleen vid:
• How Kooleen BETRAYED H...
Thank you again so so much for watching!! Have a wonderful day! :)))))
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I thought this was titled "Ant Lore" and I was so excited to see TikTok communities of people roleplaying as ants... you can imagine how quickly my smile faded
I want ant lore to be real now
Same XD
antpelt lore........ one day.....
@@charlieandhisantics9954 I actually thought that was annoying
Aw im sorry 😅 yeah that wpuld have been a more fun topic
It’s like we’ve cycled back to the 2014-2018 deviantart critique video era. People nowadays claim to have changed and become less judgmental but they really haven’t, because god forbid a young artist be bad at art when there’s thousands of 13 year old prodigies on the app to compare them to.
Its like they say, history might not repeat, but it does rhyme.
when we forget history, it is doomed to repeat its self.@@Touriquette
Maybe it’s some generational trauma lite? “I got mocked relentlessly as a teen for my art so YOU have to get mocked relentlessly for yours!”
My art at 13 was..bad. Like I did every bad artist cliche. But I improved more as I aged and practiced. I’m no Leonardo DiCaprio but im decent.
@@VidelRed I don’t think so, I think it’s just the fact that tiktok is so big and has so many toxic people. They either have a fragile ego, or think everyone has to fit the guidelines and/or draw anatomy 100% realistically.
I hate when people are like "bUt FoLlOw ThE rUlEs!!!" when art is subjective, if we all followed every art 'rule' than we'd have no wide and interesting art.
"learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist" - Pablo Picasso
Plus, much like that head shape bit, the long established art rules are often just straight up rooted in eugenics.
It’s exactly why I hate these accounts that are like here’s how you properly do something with art, there’s no one proper way to do any of that, it’s all subjective. And they don’t take into account the skill level some people have. It’s frustrating to see.
Yes but the problem with that quote is that it requires people to learn the rules which is something a lot of criticized people are not doing as it takes years of practice and effort to learn them.
Yep. I draw for funsies. Not to follow rules
@@asagothe_fander what about when they're detailing the objective structure of a thing as it exist in the here now so that the kin may emulate it as such?
It took me way too long to realise the anime figure was your microphone... I thought you just liked showing it off lmao
Same XD
I like that her mic is Dio
Same-
*Kono DIO Da!*
You thought it was just Dio but it was me, a microphone!
This is giving "you cant cosplay that character cuz YoUr nOt tHE SaMe rACe!" type of energy.
welp cosplaying a black character as a white person is for many people racist I guess. the other way around is not that bad cause you wont get a shitstorm
?
wait that’s a thing.???
@@five-fold I mean my girlfriend is black and she called plays any cares she wants Granddad she does get a lot of BS for it here and there, but I I didn't get these vibes from the video maybe I'm just missing something??
@@yakuzaman5074I think op is saying the art fixers are giving that energy, not the maker of this video
I don't understand some artists trying to force young artists into drawing in a "more realistic style." Art is subjective, and not everyone is going to like that certain style.
Yep. I enjoy realistic art. From a technical standpoint drawing realistically is damn impressive, and it looks neat. But I prefer stylized peaces with vibrant exaggerated colors and lots of pretty lighting. Stylization is fun to look at!
Hot take.. maybe? but in my opinion I don't think there's anything wrong, with correcting an art style, because younger artists students shouldn't be coddled and told that there are is AMAZING Because "style", in SOME cases younger artists, when they do get oolder became major arses, and some of them do cling onto those mistakes and those Anatomy flaws for a long time. and just reject any kind of constructive criticism and use the "it's my style, because most people can see through intentional versus accidental style vs being lazy. I don't know what I'm doing but people tell me" it's right," and" perfect " personally I don't think there's anything wrong with critiquing somebody regardless to style just don't be a dick about it
In order to critique art in a helpful and productive manner, you should know the intent the artist had while making it. If someone is focused on putting intricate patterns in the fur of a fox, then it would be silly to critique the anatomy of the fox. That wasn't the point of the art, it was the pretty patterns. It would be like looking at Slenderman and saying "You forgot to draw the face :////."
Art doesn't need to be appealing to be good. Nor does art even need to be good . It can be incredibly disturbing, gross, atomically incorrect, ect... AND that's fine! It's alright if it doesn't appeal to you, or literally anyone except the artist. Or even the artist in some cases.
While you *can* critique an art style, I don't believe that's a productive use of time. Because art styles vary wildly, and what would be the point of that? How would you even go about critiquing art styles? An art style is just the way a artist draws.
So what if artists "hide behind" an art style? So what if they can't draw hands? Hair? Dynamic poses? Dogs? The other eye? They don't need to. It's art. They can do whatever they want. That's the fun of it! They've figured out a way around drawing something they struggle with/don't want to draw/don't want to learn! It isn't a bad thing to enjoy yourself while doing your hobby. It's okay to not do things because you don't want to/don't know how.
And if they want to learn how? Great! They can ask for criticism. Unsolicited criticism is more harmful then helpful, especially with beginner artists. Cultivate their love for art first. And later, if they want it, you can offer criticism.
Sorry for the massive response, I just had a lot of thoughts to get out! And this isn't meant to come off as aggressive or mad, I promise.
Summery: Artist don't need to be good at art
@@Tritailed-Shenanigans the first part of your text seems a bit nonsense like that kind of stuff will never happen like yeah someone's are all the Blue Fox no one's going to come in and say "actually foxes are red orange!!!" And if people actually met critiques like that then holy crap they are obviously trolling lol or just really dumb, and even then that's another misconception about realism? Just because something's realistic doesn't mean that it's photo realism realism is in everything even in cartoons, like The Lion King, Tarzan mulan lady and trump! A lot of people think of realism as photorealistic that it looks exactly like a person real life which isn't the case there's realism semi realism and photorealism, I'm a lot of the stylized media that everyone I'm sure enjoys Disney Dreamworks are all products of realism and send me realism.
But even then it just feels like some of these people are hindering themselves by trying to protect their fragile ego? I just don't like how Improvement and critique is seen as bullyin.
Like yeah you don't have to draw hands you don't have to drive the other eye or whatever else that's all fine and okayish, a lot of these younger artists tend to also get envious of because they don't get a lot of faves, they don't get a lot of shares ect, I know for very long time I was very insecure of my art skill and I hated when I ask for help people would just pack my butt and treat me like I was a baby? I wanted help to improve my artwork not be told that I'm great and amazing and I have an" awesome Style" and maybe for some artists that's great and all but for a lot of people it does do severe damage, I'm still trying to repair my relationship with artwork wound trying my best to improve because that's what I want to do and that's what a lot of artists is want to do.
Yeah pointing out the obvious or pointing out silly little details doesn't make any sense that's not critique that doesn't help anyone.
But saying "hey instead of hiding behind your style, and feeding these bad habits that make your style not so great make it fun for yourself draw paid full of hands drawing a pair of eyes try and study animal Anatomy make it fun for yourself!" Study improving a critique shouldn't be seen as bullying or punishment or stagnant of creativity,
And this doesn't apply to every Young artist cuz I'm pretty sure when people are younger they just want to draw just because and that's fine no one should attack or give 40 to somebody who's just starting out drawing, but I can't help but feel like I'm lying or just being a bad person if someone came to me and Drew a really misshapen face and said doesn't look great can I start commission's yada yada I just would feel awful and that I'm setting this person up to be made fun of.. :/ I believe is a whole subreddit called delusionalartists or whatever where they kind of make fun of people with really poor art still to try and sell their artwork for ridiculous amounts of money which is just cruel in itself.
@@yakuzaman5074 Oof yeah. I understand where you're coming from and the point you're making. I'd like to clarify my own.
I wasn't saying that criticism is bad. It's a useful tool that can help artists grow. But only when the artist is ready to receive it. You asked for critique, and I'm sure it was frustrating to not receive it :( but you asked for critique . There's a difference between criticism that is welcome and unsolicited critique.
There's a difference between criticism and constructive criticism (you probably know this already.) Criticism would be more along the lines of "Your character looks really stiff." Constructive criticism would be more give advice along with it. "Your character looks stiff, try to focus less on being atomically correct and more on capturing the gesture/line of action."
But giving constructive criticism would only work if you know the intent behind it. If someone was doing a anatomy study, it wouldn't be a great piece of composition, because they weren't working on composition. And if someone was focusing solely on getting down the gesture of a pose, (or the vibes, for lack of a better word), then the anatomy wouldn't be that great. But you shouldn't critique the anatomy of the gesture or the composition of a anatomy study.
"Pointing out the obvious," is one of the most common "critiques," I've seen. I've watched many a picture of a fox be criticized for having a "bunny nose" and I've seen many Storytime UA-camrs get dragged through the mud for not using enough smearframes. As an artist, I'm sure you have plenty of helpful tips and tricks to share to help others improve. Because you've probably struggled with the same issues as beginners, and can verbalize your advice in a helpful and constructive way.
Critique is great, but it should only been given to people who want the critique. And preferably from people who know how to critique.
(Side note: Advice can be given without critique! I could tell someone that if they're interested in having more Emotive Expressions, then they shouldn't shy away from using wrinkles and skin folds. That way it feels less like an attack and more like a tip.)
Great video, I’m so happy I didn’t grow up with art TikTok when starting art, it’s so aggressive towards new artist, and I don’t understand why. I really hate that the art community is becoming unsafe
Oh my gosh right? Instagram was so much nicer to me than tik tok ever would’ve been. Thank you!!
@@onomatopeahInstagram is becoming just like tiktok recently, Artist are not safe anymore in social media, I hope in the future there would be an app for Artist only
The youtube artist community before tiktok that I grew up with was no better.
samee
art community has always been unsafe, just think about all those "cringe compilation" from ~2015
What's crazy is that these people could've spent their time doing anything else, even improving their art, but chose to stagnate their progress for internet drama.
not trying to sound like a jerk but
since when didn't the internet relentlessly bully a kid off platform(s)?
I thought art lore was just lore about the OC/character you were drawing. You can imagine my disappointment
I still don’t know what it is. Can someone explain
Great video but something i think we as the art community need to drop the whole "its a young kid" when defending beginner artists, i understand the sentiment but i feel like it makes older beginner artists who ARENT children feel bad because it implies that only child beginner artists are allowed to have "bad" anatomy.
👏👏💯💯
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 Yours should be top comment.
so real also awesome pfp
I usually side-eye people who say they can't draw Black people or other PoC but I can also see why some newer artists might want to not even try, given how much people on the internet who aren't even PoC themselves will rip apart art of PoC characters if it's not done to a certain standard.
Yeah, there can be certain unconscious biases present in art done of people outside of one's own culture but I've seen some REALLY scary pile ons on Twitter.
I come from an old school pixel art background where posting art is implicitely asking for criticism and it's takeb time to recognize that not everyone is asking for that. I usually ask people first - do you want critique? And second - would you like a redline/paintover? I find those very helpful for my works in progress but once I post something I usually only want to make small changes, myself.
I agree. I'm black myself I still feel that visceral fear of being cremated online for color picking wrong or using different lighting or the wrong color palette. That fear of being dog piled for any miscellaneous reason amongst other things is why I refuse to post my art to any public forums anyway.
@@thesmilingstranger1145i am scared of trying to draw and post art of poc characters and ocs because i'm afraid of not doing it correctly on the first try ): im not a new artist, but i'm very very new to drawing people (i've been making furry art instead for like my entire artistic career) and i want to draw and design my characters with the same variety i could have with my furry characters, but i am afraid of accidentally doing something wrong despite being aware of the stereotypes that need to be avoided
i understand the thing about not being able to draw black people because i cant draw black people.
or asian people or white people or literally any race because they all look the same with the only difference being skin color and sometimes not even that when it comes to asian and white people. i mean i can do it perfectly fine when i do realism but in my usual anime art style, like, HOW??? also, curly hair is a huge problem for me, i don't understand how to draw curly hair that doesn't just look wavy instead of curly. i've looked at plenty of tutorials and i know how to draw it realistically but i have zero idea how to simplify it into my art style and whenever i see cartoony depictions of curly hair its just like, a blob or something, which works for some people's art styles but not for mine. please help
@@selenite3890Since there's tons of anime styles out there, I recommend finding a couple shows/games with a style similar to yours, then select some characters (preferably from live action or a realistic video game) of various ethnicities, and then Google "(insert character) in the style of (insert anime). As for some specific anime that render curly hair in a fairly simple way, I'd look at Afro Samurai and Boondocks, and you could also try scaling down those common big anime curls/ringlets (like on the Rozen Maiden dolls hair) to create tighter curls though it would be more time consuming to draw those. For the face, think of the changes you make in your realistic style to the geometry of facial features for each character. Round vs angular, sticks forward or is flat, wider, narrower, bigger, smaller. You may benefit from drawing your OCs realistically first before doing stylized art of them so you have a reference to work from and stylize.
These things will also double as a way to avoid "same-face syndrome" if you are ever running into issues with that.
@@selenite3890try studying other people's anime art of different races and curly hair, that might help
I used to be active on deviantart way back when it was popular. Did an art trade with someone whose art I really admired and sent them a 5 min sketch of what I wanted. I spent a lot of time and effort on my art I did for them as they requested and a lot of people loved how it turned out. But the other artist actually took over a month to reply with their art. When I finally got the notification, I couldn't believe what I saw. They had actually traced the sloppy anatomically terrible doodle I sent them as a reference, put some colors on it, and sent that back to me, instead of drawing that in their own style. That was the last time I ever did an art trade in my life.
Aw, that sucks! I've never had that happen to me fortunately, but that's really disrespectful of them to take so long to reply and not even deliver on a shared agreement to make an art piece for each other... I hope you have better experiences in the future if you decide to to ever do ATs again!
I've done art trades with a friend of mine and he never disrespects me like this, but what happened to you was just awful.
they took a month doing that?
@@gobsmr No, it didn't take them a month to do the drawing, they just didn't respond and then lazily did it a month later (that's what I think)
Oh, nooo, this is giving me flashbacks to all of the deviantART art trades I did a long time ago. Usually they would contact me, tell me what they wanted drawn, I would draw it, and I would never see their side of the art trade. It's really messed up that an artist you looked up to did that. I'm sorry that happened to you
Personally i just dont like race swapping in general. Like especially considering when its done on this app. Especially considering that usually youll see people say it looks better. Which is so fucking racist. Like why is that ok? Like why is racism towards asian just considered ok? Like people really dont like to talk about the mistreatment or blatant disrespect asian people/media get especially in America it pisses me off.
ironically enough racism does not exclude anyone. Everyone can be racist toward everyone
Thank you I feel the same racebending really shouldn’t ever be seen as okay
Why did you leave Asia though
Back in my day, “art lore” was Crystali being arrested
GOD fuck that guy. YT art drama was filled with this stuff.
ON GOD LAMSDOASDO
omg i forgot how long ago that was aaaaaaaa
That’s literally my first art drama. It’s been so long since we had that!
Historical art lore
5:29 "portrait of an afab person", what does this even mean? like what if it's a trans girl, or what if there's a drawing of a guy that might be trans, like this doesn't describe anything. you could say "feminine character" or "presumably a girl/woman" instead if you don't want to say a "female character". calling it an "afab person" is not inclusive/progressive. also a big chunk of trans ppl don't want to be referred to by amab/afab, it's basically like saying "biologically male/female" but a modern version of it.
other than that, I agree with you about how toxic that space is in tiktok. I especially hate the "correcting your art" stuff, like if the artist didn't ask for it, let them be! there's no right/correct way to draw smh.
This is the most terminally online thing I’ve ever seen. This algorithm clearly doesn’t know I’m employed and leave my house.
literally 😭😭😭
are u talking about the video?
I feel like calling someone racist because they improved their art and worked on their art and are excited is crazy especially after you stated that almost right after that not drawing poc bc of someone’s artstyle is racist (I agree with that) the person you talked about can draw a poc in their art style and they got excited about their improvement because they realized their mistakes in the past I do not understand how being excited about improvement is racist?!?
Fr, that was crazy.
I agreed with her up until that point.
I’m so glad someone agrees with me. Like ofc the first person they drew weren’t what black people are supposed to look like, but three years later not only does their art style chance and morph, but they actually succeeded in their goal of drawing black people. However simple their style is. I really don’t understand how this child can possibly be trying to see themselves as better than anyone else, they should be proud of their work. I’m sure proud of them as a black person.
Are you talking about the pieces around 11:00? Yes, it's good that they got around to drawing black people, but.. Why on earth would they use that skin color for the first one? Is it meant to look like the same person as the 2nd piece? I don't think that depended on their skills as an artist- that depended on where they clicked on the color wheel. If they were really making an effort, I don't think it would take them 3 years to color pick a black person's skin. I can't imagine they developed all of these other artistic skills without ever realizing that black people tend to have dark skin. This doesn't make them an awful person or anything, but it is extremely questionable, and seems negligent.
@@Malachite7 you have to think about the features as well drawing isn’t just about coloring picking/coloring yes I agree that they could have easily picked a darker skin tone for the first drawing the thing I’m frustrated with is that the person is being put down and called racist for realizing their mistakes and improving and we also need to think that some people don’t improve as fast as others when it comes to art
@@Malachite7 I also agree with this point but the problem was that the creator of this video didn’t even entirely focus on that and instead focused on the demeanor of them. Also realistically, maybe it took them three years to improve their art style, learn how to draw other things outside of their artstyle, learn how to draw black people in their style, all the while going through life which can draw away time from the tablet. I don’t think it’s fair to say that they looked like they were somehow self righteous or thinking that they were better than everyone when they were just proud of the work they did.
Hey, great vid, i have been in the animation industry for 20 years and your vid has just taught me something brand new...horrific...but still new to me. Why do these people feel the need to bring other artists down. The industry (as I know it) is just not like that. We are all learning all of the time, from Juniors to Seniors, we all learn from each other. But this is so toxic...anyway, again great vid, keep up the good work :)
They do it for social media clout. It's the same phenomenon Twitter was built on: the person with the best dunks gets the most likes (and is considered the coolest which results in love and hate follows which makes the dopamine go woosh etc etc).
It's like an influencer version of art culture, and almost entirely separate from working artist culture offline
To better their ego
I think the definition of “lore” may be getting a little bit fuzzy.. Lore means the origin or backstory of any given thing. For example: Mr. Skellybones (the dollarstore halloween decoration in my room) lore: we required some halloween decorations so we bought some crappy cheap ones at dollarama. The next year we never put them back up so feeling bad I took the robed skeleton, hung it on a corner of my desk, dubbed it Mr. Skellybones, decided it’s a he, and position him in a different pose every week, and occasionally he spins around and his head moves on its own.
I think the reason why this video is titled "lore" is because its talking about the people who "fix" art. Idk just an assumption ig.
@@SukunaYaoibut that's not lore, that's just background info
@wayfaringspacepoet yea you are right
Idk what the internet thinks anymore because they just throw words around all the time
I thought this was gonna be about a specific account because of this lol. The video is definitely better for being about a general behavior rather than a specific person but yeah it’s not the best terminology. Seems to be established though so oh well
yeah, it’s just on tiktok the community refer to it as lore so i guess that’s just what people call it now? even though it isn’t really grammatically correct
I like to do pixel art (I drew my own profile pic here). I started doing art during the time when those "art critiquing" channels were doing well on here, and as a result, I barely ever shared anything I drew during that time... I still don't post a lot publicly, but if any new artists are reading this comment, every good artist starts where you start. Don't let anyone tell you that you aren't improving fast enough. Go at your own pace and find a community that will treat you and your work with respect.
Your profile pic looks SO GOOD!! I hope you keep doing art!
possums are amazing and your pfp is super cool
Any advice on learning pixel art. Like what artist to learn from
@@zzodysseuszz I learned a lot by looking at video game sprites, which you can find on The Spriter's Resource. It's good to take influence from many different sources to help you develop your style, but I recommend that you start small. Looking at game sprites can help you get an understanding of how to make certain shapes with pixels. As for tutorials, I don't have anyone specific, but there's a bunch of stuff out there.
The channels you are subscribe to look interesting. I'll look into it. Thanks for contributing to this website by existing.
"poc people" is such a funny phrase lol "people of color people"
atm machine
@@selladore4911 Don't forget DC Comics--"Detective Comics Comics". Americans love redundancy, apparently.
why does she avoid the word "black ppl" so much?
her saying “afab”, defending blackwashing and saying “POC person” were all rubbing me off the wrong way.
@@Hysterietteshe literally said she liked black rengoku
On the "black washing" point:
I only hate it when they say "i fixed your character" and only make them black, fat, or make them into any minority
Yes, I think we can really make the character however we like, white or black, it doesn't matter, it just doesn't have racist intentions.
Oh, I just wanna say, not all black people have curly or fluffy hair. Some of them actually have straight or wavy hair! Wow! What a world we live in!
(dude I’m so happy that there wasn’t an argument down there, and it was just people informing others 😭)
fr
I mean yeah but majority of us do but when I see us being represented they always give the Black woman straight hair. I personally like giving 99% of my characters Afro textured hair as well
@@MochaTune
well yes, but this is in reference to 10:27
the video creator explicitly calls a child racist because they were excited that they had _Learned_ how to better represent black people in their art. the Point is that the artist knew that they needed to improve and put in the time and effort to do so.
and they're being called racist because the video creator doesn't think the art they made when they were inexperienced looks black enough, and the video creator Specifically calls out the art being drawn with straight hair (it's actually wavy hair, not straight but not a full curl either).
this is plainly ridiculous on the face of it, because at that point you're punishing beginner artists for putting in the time and effort to Learn. on Top of specifically punishing artists for being proud of their growth, projecting that this person thinks they're better than other people Because they're happy with their growth.
the fact is, drawing anything well means drawing it poorly first. my first attempts at curly hair and dark skin were awful, but I was in middle school drawing on paper before I had a phone so I (and many millions of others) are spared the same treatment.
and it's Important, then, to point out that there _Are_ black people with those features that she specifically calls non-black and that she Specifically refers to as racist to depict.
it's a moot point in that the artist has already learned to draw tighter curls and darker skin well, but it's Also Wrong to point at a skin tone and hair type that a black person can have and say That Doesn't Look Like A Black Person.
Nope, not black enough or ‘correctly’ black, sorry. /sarcasm. I find the dog piling on people actually drawing POC to be insane.
@@tobimisa ohh I didn’t know they were talking about that from the vid, I thought they were talking about that in general. I don’t agree with this woman calling that kid racist because they took the one to learn how to draw a different race, regardless if it’s been 3 years or not. It was not her place to decide that and was just very cruel. I would flex on people who say they “can’t draw black people” if I was that kid too tbh
glad you bothered to look into croaker’s situation beyond what people were saying on tiktok- claims were spread that they were seventeen when it all happened so the fact that they were a minor really didn’t count or whatever, but they have birthday celebration posts up on instagram proving that they were around fourteen when it happened irrc ? insane how the people harassing them Knew what they were doing was wrong so instead of reflecting and stopping, they made up reasons to invalidate what they were going thru and insisted it wasn’t that bad actually
bro even if they were 17 or 46 or fucking 102 how would that justify harassing them 😭
@@theMyRadiowasTaken im not saying it would be okay to harass them no matter what their age is, just that people are by nature more likely to sympathize with a younger kid, so their harassers knowingly lied to make themselves look better if that makes sense ? im not saying it was good i think its fucked up no matter what
@@olliek8235 where did i say you were condoning it? i was saying, why do they think them being 17 justifies it?
I distinctly remember this situation getting SO out of hand, it was physically distressing to me. There were people fabricating screenshots of this kid saying the N word, saying they were a pedo for being into Dream SMP, etc. And all so they could justify bullying this literal child. Justify CONTINUING to bully this literal child after being told to stop. It was fucking INSANE.
this situation was so sad
10:57 as a poc I agree overall with this video however- I never ever get upset when I see people improve on drawing poc, you’re right the first character doesnt even slightly resemble a poc but clearly yhey’ve made so much improvement and as a poc I love and appreciate it whenever someone tries to draw and represent us
not to be nitpicky but POC stands for people of color, so saying “people of color characters” or “people of color people” is redundant. also, a lot of anime characters already are POC, they’re japanese
Oh i thoughtt it stood for piece of crap haha
Kinda weird for you to shit on that girl for improving her character drawing for black people… like shouldn’t that be exactly what you want them to be doing? Kinda fucking wild for you to call her racist for WANTING TO DRAW BLACK PEOPLE BETTER? WHAT
Yeah that was a little confusing for me as well. I understand the critique of we shouldn’t be celebrating people for doing the bare minimum, but also like?? It’s a step in the right direction and you can clearly see the improvement. The original post was from years ago so I don’t know why we’re calling them racist NOW when they’ve clearly fixed their mistakes already.
I think the complaint was about the girl taking 3 years to improve?? But I'll be honest, I don't get why, at least the artist tried and did improve a lot. Yeah it's the bare mininum, but when so many don't do the mininum, it becomes a good thing in it's own way
@@LivPCAs someone who did art in their teen years then dropped it and is just picking it back up years later, a lot can cause someone to take 3 years to improve in a single skill. We don’t know them or their life so we can hardly judge how long it took them. They might not get time to do much art. They might have an art career and still not have much free time to do their own art. We don’t know so we can’t be upset at the timeline unless we DO know.
@@LivPCyou don't improve overnight.
Especially considering she's about as white as you can get... it's feels weird being angry on behalf of another group. Like yeah there were some legit issues she bought up but it made it hard to watch the video.
I seriously hate the story of the artist who stylized the eyes high up on the character's head. I actually love the way that style looks. It's so *clearly* intentional, it looks unique, it makes their art give a very specific feeling that I don't think it would give if the eyes were put in a place that was more common or closer to being "anatomically correct". It makes the art feel more surreal and almost dissociative, but in a subtle, soft way. And the ears being so much lower than the eyes enhance the worried look, it reminds me of an animal with it's ears down
But even if I didn't like the style... so fucking what?? People are allowed to make, post, and be proud of art no matter their skill level or their stylistic choices, as long as it's not harming anyone. And if "eyes too far up on the character's head" hurts you, I think that's your problem
I can understand the viewpoint
this is a long-winded way of saying it looks goofy
As a black person I’ve always had an issue with people changing the races of existing characters, and that includes turning people into POCs, it’s pretty racist to say “ you can’t turn this black character white that’s racist” then proceed to do the exact same thing just reversed, it’s super hypocritical
Same as a half black person. I personally think it's fine to imagine a character in a different race but at the same time, it can be racist, even unintentionally. Asian characters always getting their race swap gives me bad vibes (mainly Anime characters). It kinda implies that Asian people are actually white like most Americans/Europeans.
@@NOTramroodle Definitely, It happens way to much
Yes, this behaviour is very common these days. People are much too focused on race that we forget about humanity and its individuals.
@@Joe-ut2hg great way of looking at it
Exactly.👏👏💯💯
Just learnt asian people are white people this video has taught me so many great things
To be honest, I really don't think kids should post publicly on social media, the internet is hypercritical and far too much of a cesspool for a kid to handle and it's been shown time and time again that people do not care how old you are, if there's even a crack in the plaster they'll tear down the whole damn wall
Yeah, just dont upload your art until you think it's presentable enough for the internet. When I just started out with art, I knew it would get torn to shreds, so I never posted it. I waited about 6 years before I posted my first drawing online.
I wish I wasn’t as young as 11 posting my art on dA, ruined my childhood honestly and made me so afraid to branch out and be confident in art
I’m now 25 and finally comfortable again with my art, took some years off 😭
@@m3g_h4n same here, joined at 12 and even though I was treated quite nicely I still saw some stuff I absolutely shouldn't have. Congrats on getting back to drawing, I hope you find it rewarding as you once did
This video was amazing and very well researched but one thing as a black person, it’s okay to say the words “black person” instead of POC just cause it isn’t a slur or a dirty word and poc refers to all people of color not just black people!
true she seems like the type of person who would call a cup of ''black coffee'' a ''african american coffee'' caz she is too scared of saying the word ''black''
That's why she's saying poc and not black person because she's not only referring to black ppl
@@suzubee9602 yes, but I think it's fairly obvious she's mostly talking about black people. As she's not very inclusive to asian people, who're also poc, and even some europeans, who can also be poc. She also doesn't seem to find characters who're slightly less dark in skintone but definitly not white either poc.
she legit said black
Using Dio as a microphone is a flex to me because I want the figurines but my cat chews on everything and I have little money
I had this little fucking giorno (specifically the very imfamous microorganism giorno) since 7th grade.... my two rat rescue GSDs tore off his damn hair donuts and exposed his voluminous, colossal, giant, huge, big, substantial, generous, significant, considerable, sizeable FOREHEAD
11:02 I've actually done this with one of my characters before. Her name was lucy, and was light skined, but I intended for her to be black. So, I redesigned her.
It seems like the artist intended for the red head character to be a PoC of some sort, and was just trying to figure it out (hence the tan, maybe an attempt to make a character darker, but didn’t know how). Or they just redesigned the character. If it's their character, then they can do whatever they want with it. Although I will say that their art from 3 years ago is drastically different from their current art. It looks like they just, improved as a whole with their art. Not with just drawing black people.
If they only made the tiktok for bait, then maybe the tiktok could be considered racist. But it's still their character, what they do with it regarding the characters race doesn't matter
That's what I thought. I too done it with my character. Their palette is full of mainly blues with some pink and purple. And I shipped them with a monochromatic blue OC of mine. A friend, whom I was sharing a graphic design class with, mention how my bi colored OC should be pinker to contrast against the blue character, and I agreed with that. So I redesigned the character to balance out the blue, pink and purple better. And the way I made the new color palette, the lighter skin just didn't work with the palette anymore, so I chose a skin color that worked with the palette.
Yes! This! I had a character that started out as a very tan woman, but I realized I needed more contrast between her and another character, so deepening her skintone and learning how to better draw curly hair was the best option there! Sometimes character ideas change over time, it’s part of being a character creator!
There’s nothing “cool” or “funny” about bullying! 😤⭐️
The stuff about the “black washing” (god I hate that term) reminds me of Thumin having some random guy get bizarrely enraged about her drawing herself as her favorite anime characters. It was wild. Especially since I guarantee people like him wouldn’t bat an eye at my white self doing the same!
I hate both white washing and black washing as terms honestly. Who cares if a black person dresses up as a white person and vice versa? Just do it respectfully (aka not dressing in black face/putting white power on your face) you can give the character a twist to fit you too! Go nuts.
There's a difference. What she did want black washing. Black washing is racist.
That's not the same thing. Personally I have issues with race swapping in general. But, drawing your oc as different characters isn't drawing the character and making their skin color different. The issue is people draw these race swaps then caption or say stuff about how it looks so much better. You race swap anime characters and you're taking Japanese representation out of a show. I have no issue with race swaps when an artist is just genuinely having fun imagining what the character would look like as a POC, the issue comes with the racist comments about how it looks so much better race swapped.
Hi there, I enjoyed this video and a lot of the takes are ones I can get behind, but I'd like to bring more info to the table regarding the "I can't draw poc characters." I do understand that some people do this out of malice, but in my experince its very often not. I go to an art school and I notice a lot of my peers only draw conventionally attractive, white individuals. Drawing poc or "ugly" separate skill you need to develop, since most anime styles go for "white looking" characters, it can be a hard adjustment for young creators to learn how to draw pocs when theres not a ton of representation in their idols. If someone were to simply draw a white person, but make their skin black, it would look wildy inappropriate, and a lot of the ashy skin tones come from a lack of experince and understanding. If someone were to simply post a white character with their skin changed to black (which is how you're implying it should be done) it wouldnt look right and would likely be critized as racist. Hell, I've had actual poc friends who have told me they started off drawing white people because that was easier for them and thats what they saw on TV. I've worked very hard throughout my career to put time and care into drawing poc characters or non conventionally attractive people, but let me stress, I had to put more effort into it by studying from life and people around me. I've gone to cafés and people watched in order to increase my visual library and sketched them in my sketchbook. I've been doing this for many years. If a young artist isnt able to do that, thats ok, they just need time and practice, but they shouldn't be shamed for it.
this is a very good point. i have very few poc characters, and very few male characters, because i'm a white girl and i use myself as reference. I would like to draw more poc characters, particularly black hairstyles, but i see all these people pointing out mistakes in others work and i'm scared of that criticism to even try.
@@deepfried_stupidity Thats completely ok and reasonable. Personally, I kept most of my work of poc individuals private until I felt comfortable sharing. Just keep practicing, youll get there!
Also, there's a lot of dos and don'ts when it comes to drawing POC characters, and when you're young, it feels like that if you don't draw this POC character perfectly, then you're a racist. And it doesn't help there's a lot of trolls on the internet that push that narrative as well.
THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS
@@deepfried_stupiditysame actually…
is Dio your microphone??? That's amazing!!
Also unfortunately the art community being really racist is nothing new. Artists who only want to draw "conventionally attractive" people forget that our beauty standards are kinda racist and have very unfortunate implications. Even if you ignore the moral side of it, it's just really boring when an artist's characters all look the same.
ngl i didnt realize that the reason they were holding up dio the entire time was because he was the mic until now.................
I mean, those beauty standards are explicitly racist. That’s the whole point, they’re supposed to be exclusive. You can’t separate modern beauty standards or even ideas of masculinity and femininity from inherently colonial and violently enforced ideals that were designed to devalue people. Even older beauty standards were often necessarily classist or otherwise were used as a marker of power or status. If everyone looks beautiful/powerful/wealthy, no one does.
great video up until 10:32 , absolutely rancid take. you said it yourself, that first art was from 3 years ago and the artist very obviously improved drawing black people. did not watch the rest after that. please re-examine yourself, that take was very much exactly like the community you were criticizing.
i think it's just a question of... why would they publicize their horribly inaccurate portrayal of a supposedly black character no matter how old it was? and their attitude made it feel very performative, like fishing for an approval when it's kind of the bare minimum.. no one would post like "omg guys i finally learned how to draw white people!" it just reads as strange. it wasn't just a general art skill improvement either, their old art was coloured very pale. i think it would have been better to just share their recent drawing without subjecting everyone(especially real black people) to the fact that it's seen as some major out-of-the-box accomplishment to not whitewash them. like keep the old piece in the drafts 😭 and there'd have been nothing wrong with the old piece if it weren't for them admitting and proclaiming that it was supposed to be a black character
yea...
@@139cattWhile I can understand that the tone of the post seemed a bit off, I really don’t think the creator had any ill intentions and certainly shouldn’t be proclaimed racist just for being excited about their progress on drawing POC. Clearly they agree that the older drawing wasn’t an accurate representation, so I don’t see an issue with them posting it. Especially with the progress that they’ve made over time. Honestly I just feel like there are much bigger things to worry about- like people who are actually racist and actually causing harm to POC- than this one tiktok.
I clicked on this video because I was curious about all the art drama that’s been going on, but honestly I think the best thing we can do for ourselves is create distance. Most of this shit doesn’t matter or have any lasting effect. People will be stupid on the internet always. Are we ever really surprised anymore? Anyway that’s just my thoughts as a whole- not necessarily directed to you individually. Also not to say that internet drama can’t be serious or have weight, just that we often focus on the things that don’t and hurt our mental well-being in the process.
"POC" isn't an adjective. When you say "POC people", you are saying "people of color people", or when you say "POC characters" you are saying "people of color characters"; a better alternative would be to say "characters of color". Furthermore, the abbreviation is meant for text. It's better to say "people of color" over "pee-oh-see" as it's less cryptic and won't become redundant in the sentence if used correctly.
The p can also stand for person lmao
Or, just say their ethnicity. Very simple. The term 'colour' is debated irrespective.
My favorite "art critique" is from Brookes Egleston. Each piece is willingly submitted, and he keeps the original intention as well as whatever might make the character unique and he offers 2 versions, one true to the original, another with his own interpretation that only adds to the original and might change a couple visual details. They're really amazing videos and he always puts way more effort in than is worth it.
Hello nagito fan
@@HI-qb7qp hello :)
it's really not a good look to rag on a child and present them as egotistical for being proud that they put in the time and effort to learn how to draw better representation. Especially while framing it as explicitly harmful and presenting it with and on the same level as white washing.
you've singled out a child to highlight in a video that's been seen by over 100 thousand people now, and as much as I've agreed with and enjoyed the majority of this video that really reads as the exact kind of bullying that this video was made to call out
you can't Both make the point that the art community needs to be kinder space for beginner artists _and_ call out a beginner artist for being proud that they've improved as if they've done something wrong for ever having been bad at it in the first place.
I was very confused by that point as well.
I get that the first version of the character didn't really """look black"""
But even so, a person can chaged the race of their oc if they want. The current one looked fine. My ocs have changed skin colour before while i try to find a good colour palette.
While the original one was pretty light skinned, more tan really, it was probably because that artists wasn't sure how to work with darker skin.
Colour picking skin, regarless of tone, is pretty hard. And dark skin reacts with light differently, it's something you need to learn. which i think everyone should. But it does take time, like all art.
And that artists work was three years old, i would hate to be judged for art i made three years ago, especially if i was showing it *because* of the improvement.
darker skin works differently and it takes artists who aren't use to it time to learn. Same with hair textures.
I don't understand why the person in this video talked about how important it is to draw Poc, than turned around and shamed someone for doing that? They got better, they wanted to show progress.
I genuinely saw no malice in what they did, it came off as totally innocent.
Maybe i misread it but it felt the same of someone saying how much better they can draw hands, bodies, or eyes. Just a process update.
Idk, maybe i missed something.
(100% agree with your comment, if that wasn't clear, i feel the same way lmao
*spelling)
Art tiktok can either be very toxic or supportive. There's always so much drama going on within the community. Luckily, I haven't had any issues, though younger me definitely would've had issues due to how my art was.
'people of colour person' is crazy
I feel like more care should've been given toward that "drawing my mom hot" person as a potential grooming victim considering their mom encourages it instead of treating it purely as them being weird and gross.
Like yeah maybe they are just being weird but assuming it's all on them when their mom is the one in a position of power just kinda feels wrong imo
Fr 💀
Yeah, seriously. That was my first thought.
Not everybody who doesn't know how to place their new emotions has been victimized and stating stuff like that really hurts society in a bigger picture.
If some young person has to encounter the white hot furnace of desire on its own it can get muddled up with feelings of affection.
@@Glaswalker1001 That's why I used words like "potential" and "maybe" because it's not a definite. I just thought it could've been handled with a bit more tact.
People like you and the people on tiktok are both why I don't post my own art
I was so confused what “art lore” was, but I googled it- I thought that it meant people giving lore to their OCs and making videos about them-
Just imagine how funny it would be if someone did a lore behind their oc and posted it as "art lore" on tiktok.
So much confusion as a result of that epic troll.
as a POC (Latin American) people really should stop race swapping in GENERAL. like if it's not ok one way it's not ok the other way. Double standards ffs
THANK YOU
Exactly. Hate when one is considered better than the other, when people fought for EQUAL rights for all the races, but also hate when it’s considered “representation”. It’s fun just reimagining characters in different races, but when it is claimed to be “representation” and “better design than it was before” is just…. Swapping one race with another and saying it’s better that way is THE DEFINITION of racism
@@wellidontknow1941 exactly, that's a very lazy way of representation. also saying it's better just annoys me so much. as a black person i hate when people do that, it's just blatant favoritism.
fr, white people experience racism too, every race does. it isn't subjected to one race. just leave characters how they are.
Yeah, I never really got it and it seems really really weird to me. I don't wanna assume anything about a total stranger who just wanted to share their thoughts on youtube, that's stupid, but l was kinda thrown off a bit when they said "I love when people draw anime characters as black people", and I'm black myself so I have every right to talk about it.
i once made an undercover art lore bait account where i posted some of the shittier sketches from my sketchbook, and GOD, the amount of vile hate people spewed at me for absolutely NO REASON. i made the account as a bit of a social experiment- post some of my worst art and then a "hey gotcha!" moment where i'd post my good art, but i abandoned the account and ended up never posting any of my good art in fear i'd get hate for that too. every single comment i got was absolutely hateful. even the artists who were trying to support me were so backhanded. i don't think i could even imagine being a genuine beginner artist on tiktok, it's such a vile platform for artists in general.
Personally, I'm scared to draw black people, bc I'm afraid I'll get the hair and skin tones wrong. However, I'm very willing to learn
Use references made by poc, that's how I learned how to incorporate their features in my style
dont b scared, just chill
use refs made by poc and take ur sweet time learning how, forcing it sucks the enjoyement of learning something new out of u and only builds resentment and more blockades/fear
also don’t beat yourself up about it too much. i’ve been struggling to draw coils for like a month now and sometimes i just need to remind myself that i suck at white hair too XD
drawing white characters as PoC isn't racist? imagine doing the opposite, drawing hobie brown or miles morales as white, i don't think i need to say how that would be fucked up
took the words right out of my mouth, should've finished the video first lol
i don't think history should allow for inequity to exist, we should treat all whitewashing as we treat blackwashing and viceversa, or at least open a conversation about it that doesn't devolve into madness, not everybody disagreeing with blackwashing is racist. In my opinion, blackwashing itself can be incredibly racist, disregarding the historical context of characters from kimetsu no yaiba, for instance, is taking the ethnic context of japan and basically ignoring it, you mean to tell me asians haven't suffered throughout history? how about eastern europeans? how about latinos? every race has a shaky history, humanity itself has a shaky history, we shouldn't put one race above the other like that.
blackwashing isnt real and im gonna make the character in ur pfp hispanic@@nicolassantacruz1453
@@blushpinkbunny_bro that's a dog
The first one with the eyes high up on the forehead is adorable! It’s a breath of fresh air seeing unique styles like that. And the line work and rendering is really clean so obviously they know what they’re doing. It’s really well executed. Anyway that’s my two cents
In my opinion "whitewashing" and "blackwashing" is on the same level. Either bad or whatever, depends of intention of the author. I personally don't like when people changes skin color of already established characters but I don't mind if someone just want to see those characters with different color tone.
But I DO MIND when someone intentionally changing white characters to black or black characters to white because he think they should have different color skin. And I really hate when people arguing about skin color of characters from countries they don't live in. Like for example, if you live in America don't argue about character from Spain being "too white" because you know what? There are really light-toned people in this country. Not all of them are stereotypical latino-skinned. I saw this kind of bullsht.
Exactly! I'm from Spain btw and most of us are as white as Americans jajajaj.
Exactly. People call it racist to say this for some reason even though even poc say it themselves
I'm not from Spain, but I completely agree. As a european who actually bothers to leave my country every so often, and have been to spain, there's truly no certain way a person from spain should look. Sure, you have native people from Spain who have a darker skintone then "the rest" of europe (or at least, what your average american thinks europe is), but you also have native people from spain that are whiter then me, a Belgian, one of the whitest ass european countries out there in origin.
@@flamestormthecat2833 that's completely true. And, for the record, there's no such thing as a 100% spanish person, we're all mixed up. Xd
Thank you racebending should be seen as wrong regardless
Okay, the memes people made of that one kid's OC are actually really funny, but I say that as a secure and confident adult. If I were still an insecure kid in that situation, I think I'd be mortified, and I'd feel like the whole world was laughing at me.
i saw the kid talk about it on instagram and it sounded horrible :( some psychos ended up sending them death threats
to be fair, even an adult would struggle with THAT amount of backlash, like I was on TUMBLR looking at SCHOOL memes and stumbled upon someone making fun of the artist... like even if the artist was an adult I'd still feel sorry it's just insane
idk what the humour is really. its just an art style, making fun of any difference in art is just boring and cruel for no reason.
they weren't funny at all. they were making fun of a kid over art that wasnt even bad. i dont see how you can find any humor in that
@@turquoisecrow4513 literally. it gives off the same energy of people that say they hate babies😭
5:26 sorry, but whats afab about it? afab just means someone was assigned female at birth. if you mean the subject looks like a girl, calling that "an afab person" is tbh WAY more transphobic than just calling the subject a girl. the character could very well be transfem, and the whole goal of transmascs (included in "afab people") is to not look like girls after all. i know you probably meant well and just didnt want to assume a characters gender by their appearance, but assuming their sex/assigned gender by their appearance is kind of way way worse. just thought id point that out cause it really comes off the wrong way :S
(im also not sure what the subjects gender nonetheless assigned gender is even relevant here, just say "stylized portrait of a character with really big eyes[...]" :P)
She was trying so hard to sound “woke” in this video that she ended up sounding transphobic LMAO 😂
This is why all this new terminology is so stupid.
Agreed, the drawing certainly looks to be of a feminine person but that doesn't mean they're definitely afab.
@@AlbertWesker1960. they were* op is nonbinary
i really hope they listen to all the comments telling them how transphobic this is. amab/afab is literally just the gen z equivalent of saying "biologically male/female" and i wish people would realize this and think before they use it to describe others accordingly. i just cant get over how transphobic the implication of "fem = afab" is in all directions
yeah it was really weird
as a trans guy i hate when people use afab as synonym for female or female-looking
Feels like maybe the creator just wanted to use a fancier word to seem smart and then totally misused it. Could’ve just said feminine. Could’ve just said “the character”☠️
I get your point about ""blackwashing"". But also, changing the race of like... an Asian character is. Not good, really.
If you struggle with kinky hair or braids I HIGHLY recommend an artist named vegalia! She sells brush packs for black hair and they are awsome!
okay but i kinda have a problem with the blackwashing thing. its fine to reimagine ur fav characters as black, but also especially with that rengoku fanart, usually the character is asian. asians are literally a minority as well and erasing another minority to favour your own doesnt make you justified. i dont see a problem with it but when the person literally ONLY draws that character as black its like..... yk.
This exactly!! I have a problem with racebending characters in general it just seems disrespectful? I 100% get wanting representation but racebending characters doesn’t really create representation? I just get anxious to say so because I’m worried people will misread my intentions especially as someone with the ‘tism :((
@@jaymer123the tism?
@@MochaTune y’know autism
@jaymer123 my exact thoughts!! i was a bit worried to say it as well but its kind of crazy how normalised this kind of thing is
@@yuulfuji-js9bm it really is crazy honestly
If white washing is bad, then black washing is bad as well. And Rengoku is not white tho.
This.
Teaching art is a whole other skill than drawing art, I dont think tiktok is the best place for it since there's not a lot if time to explain the fundamental reasons behind their changes. Paintovers can be an effective teaching method but there's a difference between someone giving a few quick tips on what they would've done instead and an art teacher giving an hour-long lesson guiding a student in the particular areas they're lacking in knowledge or practice in.
I don't use tiktok at all and have never heard of "art lore" before, but it doesnt sound like I'm missing anything
Okay I'm not trying to start something or be racist. I genuinely don't get a lot of thoughts on this. I just want to start a conversation on it. :
If we want genuine equality. Why should we consider black washing fine but not white washing. It's kind of weird. Because White people also have cultural backgrounds and significance that go with them just the same as Black people. I feel like doing either of them is not okay. Because you're taking the race of a character (no matter the race) and changing it for a presumably weird reason.
11:16 : I find this statement weird as I continue to keep myself up to date on situations like this. There was a video out today BY a person of color that was themed around the obligation of drawing different races. She said you aren't. No artist is supposed to be forced into drawing other things if they dont want to. Coming from a furry here I barely ever draw humans. I shouldn't be obligated to draw one or the other because as an ARTIST I don't need to cater to YOU (also yes i have P.O.C characters)
I can't really even finish this video and take it too seriously. the only truly valid point I see is the drawin one. I always loved seeing his POC version and to know it is genuinely cannon is really cool. Always remember just because someone is uninformed doesn't mean they are being hateful. I could have drawn darwin white before this video and gotten flamed bc I don't know accurate depictions of lore that were never stated inside of a show. Everything else in here seems.. really... "Pick me" if that makes sense. You aren't a person of color which typically means via the black community you shouldn't really be allowed to talk on the POC aspects. I dont really care what you do personally, I would just assume this hypocritical of you. You should allow POC to voice their opinions on that topic.
Also I just realized (edit btw) that you dont count "Tanned" i.e statistically columbian or others- As P.OC??? I was under the impression, and so is google, that a person of color is literally anyone who ISNT white?? and you JUST said you feel no sympathy for people who cant draw a person of color then shamed someone for Being Proud of Improving and mocking the first step being tanned ppl? Like yes the concept of being proud to draw other races as a Statement sounds weird, but typically for artists is rlly cool. Improving no matter what is cool. And ur shaming someone for learning and being proud to draw P.O.C??? pick a side lady.
Best comment
@@karatekickinfingerlickinch1822 Thank you. I wrote a longer part 2 after FINALLY finishing the second half, and yeah, didnt like it either :'). Ty though. I appreciate that.
i don't mean to be rude but pick me actually means when a girl belittles other girls for male validation, that isn't really what she's doing here nd i js wanna correct u since too many people have been mis-using this word. other than that i agree!! :3
@@diahoney_ Its not rude to correct someone?? XD?? Ty for fixing my mistake and keeping me up to date, I just thought it applied still with a diff definition in this instance too but I must have been wrong! Ty for queuing me in! :)!
@@palletblossom1882 np!!
oh my god. poc is an acronym. you dont say ‘p-o-c person’ you are literally just saying person of color person. just say the full acronym: person of color, women of color, characters of color etc.
LMAO fr…. She’s also too scared to say the word “woman” that she says AFAB 💀
Just a note: asian people are also poc, so, if a artist turns every anime character into black people saying that "this is better", it is a type of racism :)
But if you just think that one anime character would look great if they were black or something, its ok (sometimes I like to imagine Naruto as a brazilian kid with a light black skin)
I feel like I’m missing something, how is it racist to say that they are better at drawing black characters
I do have to say I don’t like race swapping in any way not because I’m racist or something, I don’t like it because no matter who you do it to it takes representation from them
Right? Very weird to say that being white isn't important to a person's identity.
@@DannyEastes i think what they mean is that for some characters, their race isnt that important so its ok to change? like the little mermaids story doesnt have anything that requires her to be white. but also while it isnt super obvious in lots of stories there is still a cultural background to them so idk
It's literally just double standards. Some people who do say that *are* racist, but most aren't and just hate race swapping in general.
Same for me it just doesn’t feel right to change a character’s race no matter the reason
@@sidiwvwhinope still racist.
You made a lot of good points in this video that were fantastic, but you really left a bad taste in my mouth with the TikToker with the 3 year progress. Yeah it wasn't a good comparison photo since the first girl wasn't black, but it's still a sign of art progression and the fact they can draw black characters as well now. As for the intro I mean... she's a kid! She's actually proud of herself that she made improvements! I guess it can be qualified as cringe and unnecessary, but it isn't hurting anyone. Why the fuck are we shitting on them for being proud of themselves?
You, and we as a whole, can't complain about artists not researching how to draw non-white characters and then turn around and shit on an artist for putting in 3 YEARS of effort and research. Calling an artist that actively improved their skills by their own choice "racist" is not making sense to me. What do you want them to do?
Is it just me or the comment about that artist who took 3 years to learn to draw black people was unnecesserily btchy? I mean... AND?? 3 years, big deal. Some people need more, some less time.
Yeah I thought that too. 😅
No wonder some people avoid drawing black people. They get shit if they do, and they get shit if they don’t. No wonder some people are hesitant, they’re obviously scared someone’s gonna call them racist for doing it “wrong”. I thought art was supposed to be fun. Not stressful.
I mean this bitch literally called the person who made the video about their 3 year improvement racist. Wtf. 💀
@@AlbertWesker1960. This^. I've looked over this comment section and there are confliction opinions on how to or how not to draw a poc everywhere. Some people say "it's simple, just pick a darker skin tone when you're colouring a character." and others will go "no, you should study "import race here"'s anotomy because no poc is the same, and depending on where you were born, you'll have different features. So the only correct way to draw a poc is to actually study what the poc you want to draw would look like based on where you'd want them to live." and it's just wtf? ofc people are too afraid to draw poc. If they don't include the steriotipical features like thick lips or something they'll get bashed at for "not studying a reference" and if they do they'll be called racist for including a steriotype. Chose a side lmao.
as soon as the words "problematic" are uttered i get my popcorn and prepare for the finest humor internet has to offer. stuff you people concern yourselves with is amuising
this is bullying. a lot of tiktok art lore looks like its straight up just schoolyard bullying on a massive scale.
ETA: also, poc is an acronym, not an adjective. it means "people/person of color." phrases like "poc artist" or "poc character" are redundant; in the future, say "artist of color" or "character of color" instead.
Back in my DeviantART days, people liked to say "don't like; don't look" and idk what happened to that.
I'm giving the detransitioned an oc guy the benefit of the doubt. I am a trans man. Transition scars aren't a thing cis people usually are aware of if they aren't in those spaces and I can imagine he mistook them for breast shadows.
I have never even seen a boob scar, i also thought they were shadows
@@flourishojemen8939Not sure at what level you're familiar with the context, but top surgery (also known as double mastectomy, usually double incision, which provides this exact type of scar) is a type of gender affirming surgery for transmasculine and transneutral individuals. When the scar fades over the years, its goal is to mimic the natural shading of pectorals, giving the person a more square-ish and flatter looking chest.
Source: I'm a trans man. Hope to have helped in some way!
I saw someone do "blackwashing" Deku
Deku is Japanese 😭
was chillin until the weird take at 10:57 ??? u just deadass went "its giving i'm better" just cuz they made a video showing off their improvement wtf; kid finally improoved on drawing black ppl and gets called racist anyways cuz "yes, you heard me right... 3 years!!" godamn
personally idc how long ppl take to draw non-white/eurocentric features as long as they eventually do improve; saw someone mention it in the comments n i kind of have to agree that it does make u sound like the community u were criticizing a bit u should re-think on some sht
fr
My only critique here is with your reasoning for blackwashing and then saying you like black Rengoku/black anime characters. These characters are (mostly) Japanese? So not white which I felt kind of undermined your point since it seemed to say more like light-skinned rather than white . (To be fair I'm biased and feel really off about race changing in general and sorry if I wasn't clear or if this came across as rude, English isn't my mother tongue) Otherwise very enjoyable video!
Is more just the lack of diversity I think, the characters all being Asian is still a lack of diversity, it ain't just whites that can be racist.
E.g. If I look at the characters in an anime and they're all Japanese, that ain't diverse is it? Also, Japanese people in Japan are the _majority_ not minority so I do think they should be held to diversity standards.
@@poppythedogofwondersI understand what you are saying but i don’t think diversity should be pushed onto anyone. Maybe it sounds like i’m making excuses but like you said, the majority of people in Japan are Japanese. So why can’t they have mainly Japanese characters in their stories? You wouldn’t tell a story writer from Ghana to add more east asian people into their stories since they’re lacking diversity so why do it the other way round?. People look too much at race these days, what happened to enjoying a story for, well, the story?
She seems to be using POC as a standin for black.
Not biased, correct.
I'm brown. Black washing is racist.
People even do it to my brown personas and say I'm not allowed to be mad because "black people deserve rep don't be anti black"
@@LittleTaxFraud 😭
I really hate the "seeing a beginner artist shading with purple, i cant interfere bc its a canon event" type videos. They imply that someone can only get better at art if they do what op does. It feels kinda nasty and petty to me.
Btw, shading with purple is perfectly fine, do what you want with art lol
Things I really hate about the TikTok art community is how much they shit on artists shipping their OCs with canon characters.
Like, they’ll be completely respectful of the characters sexuality and gender but still get hate because “Nooo you can’t ship your OCs with them! What about my ship?!” And like… they aren’t shipping their OCs with canon to ruin your ship, their doing it because they like the character.
(Adult peoples Self-inserts x child characters do not count. I’m talking about Darrel/AdmiralDT8)
Also shitting on art styles is an unfortunately common thing.
Edit: Just wanted to say that the guy who detransitioned that character is weird.
I’m lovin the Dio Brando figure as a microphone 💗
Heyo! Beginner artist here! I never really had any Artist lore stuff happen to me but, it’s nice to be informed about it! Nasty stuff.
But...... Why is it "Lore"??
With that name, it should be a juxtaposition between an artist's early work and their later work.
This entire video made me happy I wasn't exposed to this "Art Lore" thing when learning art for the first time...
I'm glad you called out what this section of art tiktok was by name, I didn't know all this bullying and the different types was all part of the same kind of movement. That said it was a little grating to keep hearing "poc people" and "poc characters" since poc is of course short for people of color. Just something to watch out for.
Yes, but it gets the point across without any awkward pauses in the sentence. Like getting cash out of an ATM machine. Can you say it alone? Yes. Do you have to? No.
i mean poc person isnt that much worse than atm machine or pin number, its redundant, sure, but not anything bad ❓️
also do you really want them to say "characters of colour". do you want the weight of that acronym on your conscious
Honestly most of the time she says poc she really means black people and it’s kinda annoying that she can’t say that
I hate cringe culture so much. The amount of damage it did to me as a young artist in 2014 during the deviantart cringe era is ridiculous. Seeing this shit happen again to young artists on tiktok makes my blood boil. Like is it really so hard to just be respectful?
"You can't get cancelled for getting the character's race wrong if you only draw furries."
-CaetFish, 2023
I am really glad somebody is saying something about this, I remember following croakett before all of the tiktok drama because i had a friend tell me my art looked like theirs, bc it does look similar. only a few month later i got all of the tiktoks about their art style and people berating them. I cant imagine how they felt about it all, bc it made me feel like SHIT seeing somebody with such a similar art style to me be harassed by millions of people??! I really hope they are doing well ☹ bc it literally made me feel sick
Disclaimer, this is not me making excuses, these are just my thoughts
In terms of the "cant draw___" im personally not confident enough to draw larger characters
And the finding tutorials, for some reason if im doing research and theres a video my brain is like "nope" i dont know why but i cant watch the videos, even if its for an important school assignment so its like "AAAAAAAAAA WHY ARE YOU LIKE THIS BRAIN!!!"
And i got this feeling while watching this that like, yeah those vents did seem eeeh, but not everyone is going to draw a vent in super detailed, like it might be difficult so they just want to finish it
And like the girl who did the "im getting better at drawing black characters" the og drawing looked to be from someone who doesn't really have much experience/education in the subject (and who cares if its a 3 year gap) and i got super excited when I saw the sudden improvement in my art, and i wanted to share it. And i personally think that the person could have worded it better, like just saying POC not black, because theres POC that are white passing, like one of my sisters (im 1/4 Japanese) and she is white as a sheet, and for me you can tell theres something in there because I don't look 100% white.
And im a bit 'cautious' about drawing POC because ive seen stuff like "you just drew an anatomically white person with dark skin" or like "STERYOTYPES STEREOTYPES" and yhis comes back around to my weird neurodivergent brain that won't let me watch tutorials (and having an anxiety disorder doesn't help, its like "omg im doing everything wrong")
Yeah, the fact is that yelling at people for drawing "representation" wrong is going to discourage them from trying. If you don't draw POC/fat people, you'll be yelled at, if you draw them unsuccessfully, yelled at again, if you draw them too stereotypical, yelled at again. It's just angry people wanting to be angry.
1 if they’re white passing aren’t they still black? And 2 POC to some people, including me, just feels like saying “colored people” but with extra steps so I’m glad she didn’t say that
@@ahuman5772the stereotypical part is reasonable because stereotypes are inherently bad all around
I'd say the key to drawing brown/black people and fat people is references. Just reference a lot and study them in your own time! It's also good to just keep your art studies to yourself and your art friends+mentors till you feel comfortable with posting. Imo, most of your art studies shouldn't see the light of day!
I hate it when artists say "imma fix your art" then they just make it their style. That's why I like Sam does art. He says "im going to improve and help you with your art." Then he uses liquify to show how to make stuff more anatomically correct and better with lighting and perspective.
dude stop saying "POC people" . POC stands for person/people of color. you are saying person of color person, its redundant. good video tho
literally LMAO it was annoying tf out of me
literally LMAO it was annoying tf out of me
This video is interesting so far and I like that you critique a lot of weird and harmful stuff going on over on TikTok/in the art community.
I have to say I really dislike the way you talk about that progress in 11:00 and calling it racist. Being white it's easier to draw white people because it's always easier to draw something that looks more like you (because you see yourself and your family more often than anyone else). I agree, the first of the two drawings didn't look like a PoC in the slightest BUT they saw that they were lacking in that department and worked on it to objectively make it better. What is wrong with it taking a while? Is it now fine or maybe even good to shame literal kids or teenagers for being proud of their process?
This is the toxic behaviour I can't stand in today's art community. Showing that you're proud of a process lets you be seen as looking down upon others. There's nothing healthy about all that.
Celebrate achievements, don't discredit young artists journeys, trying to frame them as racist or whatever
This has become a long comment but that needed to be said. Hope you read it because you seem like you'd actually take criticism to heart :)
💯💯💯👏👏👏
bro I clicked on this video like “ooo this sounds like it’s gonna be interesting” and then I look at the view count and 964?! you are seriously underrated
I never liked the argument that black washing isn’t bad either… just draw the character how they’re meant to be drawn?
How is any of this 'lore'? All I'm hearing about this type of content makes it sound more like cycles of flaming or drama. All the more reason how TikTok's cheap, instantly-gratifying algorithm & format proliferate the worst kinds of attention.
'poc person' people of color person? just say person of color. like you wouldn't say poc actors, it's actors of color
Assuming that one drawing is "AFAB" is also problematic.
Honestly i am just scared of drawing a black character because i suck at art and i don't want my lack of skill to be mistaken for making it ugly on purpose
Yeah that’s the sad reality that the girl who made this video doesn’t seem to understand.
People are hesitant to draw black people because they are TERRIFIED they’re gonna be called racist, which is obviously something they don’t want.
Anyone who posts art of a black person gets picked apart for not drawing them accurate enough.
Even a 10:34 the girl who made this video, literally called someone racist for being proud of showing their 3 year improvement of drawing a black person more accurately. Wtf?!?!
So just practice more? You can't avoid drawing black people forever lmao.
@@AlbertWesker1960. It's so funny seeing people defend the 3 year improvement person. Like, okay, you learned how to not make drawings of black people look like caricatures... do you want a medal? I use this phrase sparingly but it is pick-me behavior if I ever saw it haha.
@@darbyvon7159 oh i can absolutely avoid it indefinitely
I mean you don't have to make your mistakes public, but you should welcome making mistakes and running them by people you trust!! References are your friend!!
I gotta disagree with the blackwashing thing. Either it's ok to racewash characters or it isn't. Saying one is worse than the other is a fast track to inequality. And it's mostly anime characters who I see get blackwashed, so Japanese characters. I think raceswapping in general is disrespectful unless it's a "woah look what if this" or something innocent like that. I think we should stop switching races in general though.
Exactly. I don’t know why so many people don’t see this?!
Like it’s straight up just unfair and causes more of a divide with different races, if anything.
Fighting racism with racism is not gonna do any good in the long run. It Just causes more hostility
FRRRR!!! Like white and black are both races, and both equal. Its not racist to say that blackwashing and whitewashing is bad.
Yep racebending just isn’t great no matter the reason
I'm glad to see a few others here with common sense
“Stylized portrait of an afab person” girl what
i am so sorry for this but. 'poc people'.... people of color.... people............
She’s too scared to say the words “black person”
I literally saw a comment of a black person who said that saying the word “black” isn’t a slur LMAO. Even they were getting fed up….
Also when she said AFAB instead of “woman” people pointed out that she sounded transphobic… LMAO
@@AlbertWesker1960. agree thank you so much for mentioning i thought i was the only one who saw that, she tries so hard to appear so progressive that it ends up looking awkward as fuck
13:34 when i realized dio was the mic and they weren't just holding DIO for emotional support
Sounds like your just calling people who are new/not that great at art racist...you sure seem to critique there art to fit what your idea of a "poc" should be ..to make a whole video where you openly acknowledge that there's no actual proof of anything ..I think alot of people look at things through a very distorted lens ...I incurage people to reach out byond there comfort zone to places where not everyone agrees with your position...and until there's undeniable proof of a thing maybe make use of Hanlon's razor:Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
Seeing the one you put in there with Tweek and Craig is so funny to me, especially since it's a very widely accepted visual headcanon than his skin is a shade or two darker. I'd go so far as to say the art side of that fandom relies basically entirely on personal headcanons and fanon. Some examples for fun:
Cartman has heterochromia
Kenny has a lot of scars
Butters' eye scar
This is a bit of a debated subject, but some people give Kyle mouth scars
I do all of these besides the Kyle one lol. But I hc that Craig is full Peruvian and was adopted but never told about this. My hc for Kenny is that his scars change with every death. So if he got decapitated, he'd resurrect with a scar around his neck.
@@Jamjamsart yeah I like that one too, I think his body changing every time he dies is so cool [and possibly an explanation for the purple/blue eye color thing]
Was Butter's eye scar from that shuriken incident?
@@Haunted_Plush yeah it's really fun to experiment with this too. Like when I had an SP ask blog, Kenny's scars would change from time to time.
@@AlbinoAxolotl1993 that's the general idea, yeah. A lot of people also hc that he is blind in that eye too, or it's a glass eye
art lore pains my soul ... im a beginner artist and im actualy glad I dont have tiktok, or i probably would have been bombarded