@@timoshenko1971 I think it's because the Tribunal has to find the balance between upholding Chain of Command and recognizing the Honor Code. Chain of Command is the operation edifice on which the entire military is built. It's the skeleton and muscle, as it were. No one can say to their commanding officer, "nope, I'm not doing X because you're a jerk". Christian knows this too, as evident is his haunting speech about discipline. The Honor Code, however is supposedly the heart. Without honor, there will eventually be complete collapse, and total loss of morale. Military men (and women) have to believe they're doing the right thing. But I'm not in the military so I'm just imagining this. So while they see that Bligh is a vicious, sadistic bully, a sanctimonious blowhard, and an altogether foul man, he was also doing his job. "Excess of zeal" is how they put it.
@@tedjohnston9314 - Good point. And we certainly have no justice or decency under a hair-sniffing pervert who allows millions of illegal aliens to make a mockery of our border.
Yeah. "You haven't actually committed a crime, but you are guilty of being an unrepentant hard-ass prick, which sometimes isn't the best thing for a sea captain to be."
@@bigwrexuk Not when he loses the ship. Bligh went on to be the governor of a new colony in Australia, and lost control because of the rioting. His statue is on the Thames Enbankment I beleive.
Bligh's book, sketches, and descriptions of his voyage to Timor are so accurate that they can be used as sailing directions today. A remarkable seaman, it has been said of him "He was only good when the going was bad.".
There's a statue of Admiral W. Bligh in his hometown. If that surprises anyone I would like to add that in 1787, his use of discipline was light by the standards of the time. The Zeal referred to by the court does not represent his disciplinary standards but rather his acerbic nature and desire to go around the horn to make a name for himself. His low born status was reflected in the Admiralty dragging it's feet to authorize his departure, delaying it until that window had passed. He should never had attempted the Horn. Also, he loaned Fletcher Christian money after he gave up on the Horn in Cape Town. We all know that was a HUGE mistake.
@@davesnothere. Bligh spent six weeks trying to get around Horn. When he finally gave up, he had not lost a man, a spar, or a sail. That , in itself is a remarkable achievement.
Captain Bligh was a **FIRST CLASS JERK** and the whole world knows it. His name has come down to the present as a by-word for extreme cruelty and infamy.
@@Farmer-bh3cg No doubt he was honored for his seamanship less than he should because of the Mutiny. Fletcher's brother had been involved in an aborted mutiny before and told him about it. Cogito ergo sum. If it were not for that event and the Christian estate being depleted of wealth I doubt Fletcher would have done it. Nobody would be calling Admiral Bligh "Captain Bligh" in the history books. Admiral Bligh was just another working man that got his name trashed by the rich for his ambition and the temerity of wanting to be in the club.
Almost the opposite of the 1984 version, where Bligh is praised for saving the men on the open launch. Bligh and Christen would meet again 16 years later as Council Members of the Planet Krypton.
Tracy Winters Henry Danielle was just right for his part in this brief scene: a stroke of genius or a very happy accident that he was picked to deliver the court's verdict. He died in 1963, soon after the picture was released.
@@randynundlall2601 Two people beat me to mention Henry Danielle, gifted with a voice as sharply edged as a sword and delivery equally suited to authority or villainy.
What a remarkable voice Henry Daniell had. It gives majesty to a speech that would have been much less had it been given by a less vocally gifted actor.
Unfortunately he was one of the last of a generation of actors who spent years in Rep honing their technique before appearing on TV or cinema screen. . Sadly ,none of the present ( or future ) crop will be capable of such a performance. . Too " posh "... and doesn't tick the correct boxes.
Pretty accurate in terms of leadership being “punished” in the military, I’ve seen plenty of NCOs and Officers get numerous complaints about their conduct & nothing happens until someone openly does something like attempts suicide or up front tells higher up leadership during sensing sessions, and instead the other person is involuntarily separated and the NCO or Officers are moved to another unit without any reprimands
That's how things often work, but in this case it is not accurate. The Bounty mutineers mutinied because they had been getting free and hot sex from native women and wished to return for more hot sex. The idea of Bligh being a martinet is a fiction that arose decades later in a book. The Royal Navy clearly didn't think Bligh was bad news, they made him governor of New South Wales.
@@will-i-am-not Bligh was an Englishman who served in the British Navy. Sometime after the Bounty crew mutinied so they could go back to hot sex with native girls, the British Government made him governor of New South Wales, then a British colony in the land later known as Australia.
That happened to me in the civilian world with an abusive supervisor. I made verbal and written complaints that were ignored until I snapped and yelled at him, actually I screamed at him. It took that to catch the attention of a high level manager to look at the situation. I thought I was gonna get fired, but all that happened was that the manager told me to have a good day and to take care. I’m thinking they may have had a little talk because the abuse stopped. But man, I was scared that I was gonna get my walking papers.
Incredibly damning. They were openly calling him out for not being a gentleman. Now that may seem like nothing to us now or at best a joke or a meme in this day and age, but that’s like calling a samurai “dishonourable”, or a knight “unchivalrous”. It’s just about the biggest slap in the face that they could have given him. If you were not a gentleman as well as an officer, you were nothing.
It’s like a rock star telling Wayne and Garth they aren’t worthy. Bligh getting that verbal slap down was not a small deal. In fact, it was quite the opposite.
That's not really accurate. "Gentleman" at the time referred to someone of the upper class. It depended on your birth, not your personal qualities. Gentlemen may have been expected to comport themselves with honour, but the failure to do so didn't mean you weren't a gentleman. Just not a very good one. I don't think the statement made in the clip is one anyone in the 18th century would have made.
Trivia: The admiral who delivered the 'findings of the court' was played by Henry Daniell, an English actor, best known for his villainous film roles, but who had a long and prestigious career on stage as well as in films... He is uncredited in this film which was strange considering the excellence of his brief performance in it... Truly a spectacular movie in the tradition of the great MGM classics... Excellent on all levels, and truly worthy of the 7 Academy Award nominations it received... THIS is the movie that forever made me a fan of Brando, and of Trevor Howard.
Daniell looked a sour piece of work on screen but he must have had something extra off it : it is said that he had six children. He died in 1963, so this effective little cameo must have been one of his last roles.
That speech delivered by Henry Daniell is for me, one of those "moments" in film -- alluded to once by Jimmy Stewart in an interview -- that in itself is almost worth the price of admission.
I seem to remember Henry Daniel in several roles, including if Im not mistaken, George Washington, whom he does you have to admit , resemble, especially in the Admirals uniform here.
That speech is one of the most pertinent and effective I have ever seen on film--whether historically accurate or not. This version of the Bounty saga, is without doubt, the most spectacular and entertaining. Filmed in Tahiti , visually exciting, and best musically scored version of all. With a detailed remake of the ship, ( the REAL Star) taken from original plans (with some added space for filming, and a diesel engine for close maneuvering ) The huge cost almost bankrupted MGM. But, we have a unbeatable film to enjoy for posterity. It is highly unlikely, that spectacular films like this, will ever be made again. BUY IT--I did, AND the 5 disc CD Box-SET.
Philip Croft Yes, a great speech. It actually struck me as one of those transcendent "moments" in film that Jimmy Stewart once alluded to in an old Parkinson interview. I will always remember the power of those final words to the captain.
Philip Croft ... The delivery of the 'dressing-down of Bligh' is a tribute to the power of the English language, properly used... Performances such as this in film have caused me to stop using slang entirely and that alone has caused a noticeable improvement in my command of the language. Henry Daniell was hand-picked for that part, I'm sure.
You ought to read Trevor Howard's biography "A Gentleman and a Player", in which is outlined his *ENORMOUS FRUSTRATION* dealing with Marlon Brando, because of MB's joking attitude toward film making and his improvisations with the script. *No wonder the film sank like a stone at the box office.* (The book is available on the Internet Archive: archive.org/)
He didn't fall far. He proved to be one of if not THE best celestinal navigator in the world at that time He was given a bigger ship and then got the breadfruit, fought with distinction with Nelson and eventually rose to the rank of Vice-Admiral.
@@robertacolarette1594 during the open launch journey one was killed by natives. Whilst he was still in command of the Bounty, one but that happened long before they got to Tahiti
The more I look at Bly the more I understand that he’s viewed differently on how people view authority. Basically the historical bly all things considered was just given bad cards as overall his “Tyranny” was average for the time or borderline tame but because he has no marines to back him up he was singled out as the tyrant. Overall both sides in the mutiny had justified reasons as to why they did what they did. However history of each era following this event decides to paint bly how they view authority. During the mid 20th century bly was portrayed as a tyrant probably due to the recent tide of dictatorship that people fought against in recent years. However in later decades he’s portrayed in a more sympathetic light that views him as a man more than evil captain. Overall I prefer the more sympathetic version as I believe judging from the logs and writings that while the man was with criticism he wasn’t a man of villainous intentions. Also the fact that he survived the voyage to the Dutch colony from Tahiti is nothing short of amazing.
Camus once wrote, "Filth and decency are just words. Everything is just words. All my life I wanted there to be something other than words. That's what I lived for, so that words would have a meaning, so that they would be deeds also."
For Captain Bligh to have been told point blank that he was not a gentleman and that the Admiralty in fact regretted assigning him as captain - what a slap to the face. Even as he had supposedly won the case.
As they say in Sandhurst, "There are no bad soldiers, only bad Officers". But the truth is, Bligh was an excellent Officer. In real life he was acquitted of any wrongdoing and was never reprehended. The fact that he was able to reach Timor in such conditions - I always wondered if he reached Dutch or Portuguese Timor - is absolutely outstanding.
And so it goes with historical fiction & drama. The people were typically real but the dialogue & details are guesswork per the author's & screenwriter's imaginations.
"No code can cover all contingencies"....in 32 years as a L.E.O. I only had one boss who was smart enough to realize & acknowledge that...he was a smart cookie
So you spent 32 years telling lies, ruining lives, falsified police reports, perjury, overtime fraud and closing your eyes to police corruption every single day you wore shit covered badge on your chest? That's what cops do.
@@tardis11111 A pure evil piece of schit, trained liar, and the putrid filth of humanity, also known as a "police officer." They set the standard for pure evil government corruption.
Wise. Apt. And completely lost on many people reading it today who staunchly believe what they're told regardless of the decency (or lack thereof) behind it.
We must consider a thing: in the XVIII century, a ship as soon as she was far for land, if it was not, a part of a fleet, was absolutely alone and self sustained, without ANY possible help from the base in case of trouble. Any mistake could end in shipwrek and quite certainely death of all the crew. And the crew was made of hard men that respected only force. In XXI th century, when there is GPS, radio and crewmen are often well educated men and women with good attitude and character, there is no need to be harsh. But in XVIIIthh century Captains HAD TO BE as strong as possible
2019 DE yes, l agree, "justice and decency are carried in the heart of the captain or they be not aboard" Bligh's idea of discipline does not match at all with a captain of the admiralty.
No, he was not a gentleman. Back than honor, honesty and discipline had a meaning! Captain Bligh was just layman (eating stinking cheese, stealing food and blaming others), who drilled him self up to the rank of captain by ambition, hard work and ruthlessness. That's why he only received missions, like in this case, expedition, bringing back bread fruits, not commanding military ship! There are many rules in the book, but it takes a gentleman to apply it the right way against his man!
@@normanbraslow7902 Now Now Norman...Did any of you serve under Captain Bligh...if not at this point all is conjecture and speculation...even if you read the log of the bounty, the other side of the story will nay be heard...aaargh!
Olivier Bolton, try to read Caroline Alexander, "The Bounty", perhaps the best researched study on the subject. She does not pull any punches. Pay specific attention to her account of the Christian family's major efforts to blacken Bligh to try and save the reputation of the Christian family from the disgrace. I've read plenty of Royal Navy history, and Bligh comes off as brilliant, irascible, but he never wantonly maltreated his men as alleged by the Christians. All navy officers swore, perhaps Bligh was more vocal than some, less than others. My impression is that to serve under him would have been rigorous, demanding, but if one exerted ones best efforts so that he could see that, there would be no lasting problems. Do you have any idea at all of the rigors of commanding a ship like the Bounty? Unrelenting discipline and obedience to orders was demanded, or all hands could die, and the ship lost. Christian was, simply put, a spoiled brat who could no or would not be disciplined, and went off the rails. He deserved to be hanged.
Here is what Patrick O'Brian says about Bligh, from his Aubrey/Maturin novel "Desolation Island": "Captain Bligh - a capital navigator - very touchy himself, but had no notion of how he offended others - would give you the lie in front of all hands one day and invite you to dinner the next - you never knew where you were with him - led Christian, the master’s mate, a sad life of it, yet probably liked him in his own strange way - never knew where he was with Bounty’s people - no idea at all - was amazed when they turned on him- an odd, whimsical man: had gone to great pains to teach Heywood how to work his lunar observations, yet had sworn his life away with a most inveterate malice - had also brought his carpenter to court-martial for insolence, and that after they had survived the voyage in the launch together - four thousand miles in an open boat, and you bring a man to trial at Spithead!"
Actually, compared to other British commanders of the time he was rather sparing in punishments. He would only dress down crew members where other Captains would've flogged them, and flogged crew members whereas other ship Captains of the time would've executed the wayward crew members.
Bligh was far from unusually strict or harsh by 18th century standards. Captain Cook was more strict, for example, but loved by his crews because he was fair and consistent. The trouble with Bligh, and what made him unfit for any real authority, was that you never knew what might set him off. An offense that earned a reprimand on a Monday could earn flogging on a Tuesday. That's the kind of wild unpredictability that causes mutinies, prison riots, peasant revolts, etc. The tension becomes unbearable and people strike out of fear that the authority will finally destroy them.
@@nocturnalrecluse1216Yes it is. And that makes it so annoying. I always felt: If you make a work of fiction, make it any way you like. Take real life event as inspiration, but make it clear fiction. But if you take a real life event and keep all the participants in it, then you own it to the participants to be accurate and NOT make it a work of fiction. Even if Bligh was dead at the time the move was made for 150 years, he was a real man. He deserves to be remembered the way he was. If he was a criminal, remember him as such. But he was not. He was a good seaman, he was in general a fair officer, he punished quite little and usually very light compared to the standard of the time and he grew to become a rear admiral in the following years for everybody, admiralty and fellow officers, saw him as a good choice for further promotion. He deserves to be remembered as such OR not at all and be just one of many names one reads in historical documents and maybe a book for proffessional historians. If a filmmaker pulls him out of his rellative obscurity, he owes it to the legacy of the real man Bligh to be accurate.
In such a small part, Henry Daniell commanded the screen and delivered this brilliantly written speech like a master. My admiration for him began with “Sherlock Holmes and the Woman in Green,” where he portrayed Basil Rathbone’s favourite Professor Moriarty. And then there was one of the greatest swashbucklers of all time, “The Sea Hawk,” in which he crossed swords with Errol Flynn.
Excellent film with great actors! Modern films no longer achieve the impressive effect of the monumental films from the sixties. No one could play the role of Captain Bligh better than Trevor Howard. It was undoubtedly his most important film role. The sailing ship Bounty was built especially for this film. The rest is history. 👍
There was also a mutiny against Bligh in Australia when he was Governor of NSW. My understanding is happened when Bligh tried to break up a monopoly that a few select men were getting rich from and they sent him packing back to England.
Bligh was an interesting man, he rose from the ranks and so in fact was indeed not a gentleman, he was however an exceptional navigator and seaman, over 4,000 miles in an open boat is remarkable achievement especially in those days. It is entirely possible that he was not harsh enough with the men, and that combined with his up from the ranks status would result in a lack of discipline
Plus, Bounty carried no Marines. The fact is that at the time mutinies were quite common and, despite the noble (and probably unsaid) word, discipline was harsh across the board, coupled with poor conditions of service. Hence the mutinies at Spithead and the Nore soon afterwards. And it should be noted that Bligh's ship was the last to do so. Re Tahiti, I agree. Bligh let is men loose to enjoy the extended stay. He then had to restore that order single-headedly. Christian and the other officers were basically useless and part of the crew wanted to stay there. .We see how they fell apart at Pitcairn. In short. A superb film but total fiction.
@@shiroamakusa8075 Correction: the historical Bligh most certainly **WAS** a cruel psychopath! Once they reached land, he abandoned all of his shipmates, many of whom died from privation. Even today, for any officer to be termed a "Captain Bligh" is an automatic rebuke...
a failure to appoint him???.....yet he went on to command and serve alongside Nelson in the Battle of the Baltic as Captain of HMS Elephant......a ship of the line where even Nelson himself praised his efforts during the battle.
As far as i know that's because the real Bligh was not such a monster. He was far from perfect, but he cared for his men and his officers. The reason for the real mutiny was not Bligh. Instead the many months on Tahiti were to blame. Many men lost their discipline through that time and can't get used to it again when they started the long journey home. I like this movie, but historically it's not very accurate.
@@Maverick4583 Am reading that the "Rum Rebellion" was instigated against Bligh, which begs the question of how it is that so many of his subordinates turned on him. There's a there there. Whether it was because of excessive discipline or its lack. More interesting to me is how a historical figure like this is portrayed. Tells you something about a society in which insurrectionists are the good guys and the governor is the bad guy.
@@doriangray2020 i only wrote what i read sometime ago. It is also known that this movie is not historically accurate. The movie with Anthony Hopkins and Mel Gibson is, as far as i know, much more accurate. And in this movie is shown that Bligh is Not the Monster he is believed to be. Like i said, he was not perfect but he also wasnt a total asshole either. But i am curious, what are you talking about?
This is based works that drew from the propaganda campaign of the Heywood and Christian families. The Bounty (84?) draws more from subsequent historical research, which, if anything, shows Bligh to be more lax than the typical British captain of his day.
Probably the most exciting to watch, but not the most historically accurate. Bligh was a basket case and a half, but not in the way he's portrayed here. He was always accusing his officers (not his men - his officers!) of ridiculous crimes like stealing his coconuts.
@@morten1 Anthony Hopkins might be as good, or even better, an actor than Trevor Howard, however Mel Gibson is definitely no Marlon Brando, who I would even rate higher than Clark Gable. I would rate Charles Laughton equal to Howard. 1935 to 1962 to 1984. We seem to be overdue for another remake.
The navy was one of few places where a low born could rise through the ranks - yes class structure still remained and nobility ensured high rank no matter which service you joined - but in the navy was a greater chance of reward in taking of ships and cargo, where in the army the common soldier often had to loot the dead and helpless and hide their fortunes in their uniform till they could deposit it or make use of it.
It is amazing the acting Daniel Day Lewis who played the hated "Captain Fryer", seemed like a gentlemen in the 1984 "The Bounty", unlike the absolute monsters he played "Gangs of New York" and "There will be blood".
Well, that's kind of the fog of history. Bligh wasn't a Captain. He was a lieutenant, and an old one at that. They called him "Captain" out of respect for his position. Christian, also a Lieutenant, actually "out-ranked" Bligh socially. Bligh came up through the ranks. Christian was born into it and thus, a "proper gentleman". Things get murky here. Although Bligh wasn't "high-born", he wasn't a commoner either. By 1700's standards, he was a potty mouth. Something a gentleman simply doesn't do. There was a lot in play, social circles and political circles.
Just as an aside. Captain Bligh went on to become a Vice-Admiral and The Governor of New South Wales. He retired to a large townhouse in London which was near to what is now the Imperial War Museum. He had eight children. He collapsed and died of a heart attack on 7th December 1817 aged 63 years in Bond Street, London.
After what is considered the most amazing open water journey, Captain Bligh went on to deliver bread fruit. Cristian endeded up getting killed. Three voyages.
The whole expedition was a clusterup from the getgo. Bligh was an excellent navigator and seaman, one of the best in the RN, but he was saddled with a bunch of ner-do-wells, including Fletcher Christian. Bligh did not have an effective First officer, he had to fulfill that role, as well as Captain. The Bounty was both overcrowded and undermanned. In hindsight the voyage was doomed to fail.
AND YET---he later was put in control of one of Australias Colony's, and they rioted against his leadership, and was sent home. Perhaps PEOPLE, wasn't his Forte.
If the later Hopkins movie is to be believed , the mission is of the utmost importance in bringing back the breadfruit to feed the slaves . Bligh was not at fault in carrying out this task, however , I am sure the Admiralty would not condone the crew of the Bounty setting up homes on the Island and starting families there . This wasnt the end of Bligh as he fought alongside Nelson at Trafalger and then went on to run a coffee plantation before being sacked by the island governors .
..."the admiralty has always sought to appoint its officers from the ranks of gentlemen.." nothing like the English class system eh? And it's alive and kicking in 2022!
To such extent that my English is oficially considered very good (I'm Portuguese) and I felt hard pressed to understand without resorting to the subtitles. It was a very exquisite English indeed! 😬
Implying that someone was not a gentleman in that era would be absolutely devastating. He would certainly have never received another appointment. Moreover, he would have been finished in polite society. In fact, the Admiralty never made those comments and Blithe had a fine career after Bounty.
@@alexkilgour1328 I've no idea where you get this from. It was one of the very few careers open to younger sons of the nobility. George V was a naval officer for about a decade, starting as a midshipman.
Real life: Captain Bligh went on to become a Vice-Admiral and The Governor of New South Wales. He retired to a large townhouse in London which was near to what is now the Imperial War Museum. He had eight children. He collapsed and died of a heart attack on 7th December 1817 aged 63 years in Bond Street, London
That movie was a remake of the 1937 film which made Bligh a villain. The Bounty of 1984 was far more factual and showed Bligh to be the man he was. Christian & his mutineers were a rabble and did not want to leave Tahiti, the main cause of all the trouble. Bligh was no flogger, like most captains in those days, including Cook. Bligh retired an Admiral of the Blue.
@@pendorran that’s true, he stopped the “Rum Corps” military dictatorship. They deposed him, yes, but it ended their regime. He was a man with backbone, that’s for sure!
I wonder if this addendum from 1:00 onwards is accurate to historical record. After HMS Bounty's loss, Bligh was given command of nine HM warships, including four ships of the line. Presumably he had the confidence of the Admiralty.
I recommend William Bligh's account, "Mutiny on Board HMS Bounty." It's only 200 pages long. Bligh impressed me as a highly competent seaman. His description of his 3000 nautical mile voyage on a 30 foot long boat with loyal sailors is compelling. Before the Mutiny, Bligh notes that before any of his men were allowed land liberty on any of the South Pacific islands, the ship's surgeon examined them for venereal diseases. If a crew member manifested symptoms, he was not permitted shore leave. I thought that Bligh's consideration for the native populations' health was highly enlightened for an 18th century European man. It was probably also one reason his crew mutinied against him.
@@kaiserjager2754 I disagree with you concerning Bligh's lack of diplomatic skills. From what I have read of him he was exceedingly respectful toward the native populations whom he encountered during his voyages in the Pacific. His management style might have been draconian by contemporary standards. A sea captain is an absolute monarch on his vessel and some are more enlightened than others. He must have had some crew members who respected his ability and his command. Otherwise they would not have joined him on that 30 foot boat provisioned with minimal food and water, and would have instead joined the mutineers. Only a couple of short chapters in Bligh's memoirs are devoted to the mutiny. The most gripping pages concern that 3000 nautical mile voyage from open seas to the Dutch East Indies on that 30 foot open boat. I have read arguments asserting Bligh's behavior as that of a martinet. The rebellion against him in Australia suggests this. I have seen the three major Hollywood movies about the Mutiny. The last one, with Anthony Hopkins and Mel Gibson I consider the most accurate depiction of the events.
Wrong. He cleaned up the illegal importation of soul destroying rum into the colony. The most popular name for male newborns in the colony at this time? William.@@kaiserjager2754
@@johnbowen2956captain cook said of bligh; "he chastised when he should have flogged and flogged when he should have hung" Hardly Hollywoods portrayal of the man.
@@johnbowen2956 Well perhaps I missexpressed myself or I was missunderstood. What I want to say is that Bligh obiviously wasn't good in men management and conflict situations
Blighs biggest mistake was that he took no marines on board bounty. Cook and flinders took note and had a complement of men is scarlet to keep the peace.
The problem Bligh had was that the breadfruit trees in Tahiti required 5 months to mature to the size necessary for successful transport. That gave the crew 5 months of living quite merrily among the natives whose moral code was notably less stringent. Small wonder that they weren't anxious to make another long voyage on a cramped ship with no female companionship.
the mgm hms bounty from rge marlon brando movie may have sunk off the coast of Florida because of a stupid captain and hurricane sandy however the mel gibsin bounty is floating in Sydney Australia. thank god
Never saw the movie, only this scene. What struck me first: All judges sitting in a court martial of the Royal Navy of the time must be at least of the rank of captain. And captains and above wore two epaulettes at the time. Obviously the court was manned by a lot of very old Lieutenants.
@@Michael.96 They found them all, shipped the survivors to Norfolk Island didnt they, didnt they rest go down with HMS Pandora, locked in a cage on deck. My recollection of history anyway. I have visited restoration Island where Bligh landed after the mutiny, off the Cape York coast of QLD, they did well to survive.
Any Seagoing Navy Veteran is familiar with the varied attitudes and standards of their Commanding Officer. In the case of Captain Bligh, he was a sadistic tyrant. No man of such hatred toward his fellows should be in command of a ship. Even the Board of this Investigation found fault with Bligh's methods.
What happened later in Pitcairn was horrible. They actually slaughtered each other to the last, including Fletcher Christian who was killed with an axe.
Yes , Basically The Admiralty told Bligh We are clearing you of any wrong doing , But Good Officers and seamen alike were moved to mutiny against you and We normally pick our Officers from amongst upstanding Gentleman , But when we picked you , We screwed up and made a mistake !!!
It was shot in Technicolor in 1962. The 1935 version with Charles Laughton was in B&W and has been colourized. This 1962 version bombed, the 1935 version won best picture.
@@Cabdrum1 The original novel is in black and white, as are the illustrations and drawings done at the time. I do not think they have been colorized yet, but given time, someone will. :-)
Oh, and keel-hauling was banned and not carried out aboard Bounty and it is noted that Bligh flogged fewer men than Cook. Indeed, the evidence shows that he was very concerned for the health and well-being of his men.
1:55 "... It is for this reason that the Admiralty has always sought to appoint his officers from the ranks of gentlemen" It is safe to say this no longer applies to those in political power. At least in The Netherlands.
An excess of zeal cannot be condemned..... should be questionable. When the seamen are deprived of drinking fresh water and resort to sea water. Inhumane zeal is condemnable.
A great scene, but the (fictional) court would have had to consider the illegal (and fictional) keelhauling incident when it was judging whether or not the captain had administered justice "according to the articles of war": there would, of course, have been witnesses to it among the crewmen who returned with Bligh.
Anon Anon yes, but l believe most of those who returned back were in fact very scared of Bligh, and they knew he is from another class and will have friends who will be commanders of other ships these seamen will eventually embark into.
@@randynundlall2601 If Bligh had actually killed a crewman by keelhauling him, something would have gone in the ship's log, if only to register mendaciously that the man had died during some kind of lawful punishment (e.g. flogging). I always thought that Christian was the one with the influential friends, rather than Bligh.
Anon Anon yes, quite right, but l am very tempted to think that he might have omitted that entry, he was in charge of the logbook. But yes, they simply disregarded it. Not nice!
The court's findings are unjustified and ignorant. No other man in the court room would have the resolve or dignity or tenacity to lead men under these most impossible odds and keep them alive. A Royal Navy Legend.
This is an example of why Britain and its former colonies - America, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand became the most prosperous countries in the world and why the rest of the world wants to live in these countries today, whereas most of the former Spanish and French colonies are corrupt and impoverished. Two former British colonies in Africa, Zimbabwe, formerly Rhodesia, and South Africa had the strongest economies and were by far the richest on that continent with Rhodesia being nicknamed 'the breadbasket of Africa'. However, as soon as they were handed back to the indigenous people it didn't take too long for both countries to fall into economic chaos and social disorder.
The initial inquiry wouldn't have had such a statement because only Bligh and crew loyal to him were heard. Later after the Court Martial of the mutineers who were captured were tried (some were found innocent, some pardoned and some hanged) and Fletcher Christian's brother wrote an expose on Bligh's treatment of the crew, the Navy's opinion (and the public's) of Bligh's behavior changed. He still had a long career, but he was given a Court Martial for using bad language against his officers at one point and was not given sea duty.
@@normanbraslow7902 Didn`t Bligh go on to govern a colony in Australia? I seem to recall they mutinied against him too. That`s just from memory ,maybe I`m wrong. I know that after a lifetime of reading history and all its alternative views and theories ,often the reality is that which was the common belief at the time.
BillyCaspersGhost, You are right. It's an interesting story. Read Caroline Johnson's book on the mutiny as she gives a very good account of it. In brief, the established British Army officers there had formed a very corrupt criminal organization. Bligh tried to correct the situation, and they forced him to take refuge in Royal Navy ship offshore. He refused to leave until properly replaced. As I recall, the Army officers were punished. He was the CO on a ship during the famous Spithead Mutiny when a dozen or so ships crews refused to sail due several captains and other officers gross mistreatment. Bligh was not one of the COs the crews accused of mistreatment. Bligh intervened to prevent several of his crew from being punished. Later Bligh was the CO of a ship at the Battle of Copenhagen under Admiral Nelson and conducted himself with such bravery that Nelson personally congratulated him in public on Nelson's ship. Bligh had his faults, but he was a consummate Royal Navy officer.
"Justice and decency are carried in the heart of the Captain or they be not aboard" -- the truth of these words is haunting
That goes for Presidents and our other leaders as well as for captains…
But, at the end of the day, if he was most honorably acquited, why that slap in the face?
@@timoshenko1971 I think it's because the Tribunal has to find the balance between upholding Chain of Command and recognizing the Honor Code.
Chain of Command is the operation edifice on which the entire military is built. It's the skeleton and muscle, as it were. No one can say to their commanding officer, "nope, I'm not doing X because you're a jerk". Christian knows this too, as evident is his haunting speech about discipline.
The Honor Code, however is supposedly the heart. Without honor, there will eventually be complete collapse, and total loss of morale. Military men (and women) have to believe they're doing the right thing. But I'm not in the military so I'm just imagining this.
So while they see that Bligh is a vicious, sadistic bully, a sanctimonious blowhard, and an altogether foul man, he was also doing his job. "Excess of zeal" is how they put it.
@@tedjohnston9314 - Good point. And we certainly have no justice or decency under a hair-sniffing pervert who allows millions of illegal aliens to make a mockery of our border.
@@dutube99 Very well put indeed.
The most elegantly way of saying "but all-in-all we find you to be an asshole" ever.
Yeah.
"You haven't actually committed a crime, but you are guilty of being an unrepentant hard-ass prick, which sometimes isn't the best thing for a sea captain to be."
@@bigwrexuk Not when he loses the ship. Bligh went on to be the governor of a new colony in Australia, and lost control because of the rioting. His statue is on the Thames Enbankment I beleive.
yeah 2022 style.
"Sort of "
But not enough of an "asshole" to administer the appropriate punishment for abusing his officers and his crew to Bligh.
Bligh's book, sketches, and descriptions of his voyage to Timor are so accurate that they can be used as sailing directions today. A remarkable seaman, it has been said of him "He was only good when the going was bad.".
There's a statue of Admiral W. Bligh in his hometown. If that surprises anyone I would like to add that in 1787, his use of discipline was light by the standards of the time. The Zeal referred to by the court does not represent his disciplinary standards but rather his acerbic nature and desire to go around the horn to make a name for himself.
His low born status was reflected in the Admiralty dragging it's feet to authorize his departure, delaying it until that window had passed. He should never had attempted the Horn.
Also, he loaned Fletcher Christian money after he gave up on the Horn in Cape Town.
We all know that was a HUGE mistake.
@@davesnothere. Bligh spent six weeks trying to get around Horn. When he finally gave up, he had not lost a man, a spar, or a sail. That , in itself is a remarkable achievement.
Captain Bligh was a **FIRST CLASS JERK** and the whole world knows it. His name has come down to the present as a by-word for extreme cruelty and infamy.
@@Farmer-bh3cg No doubt he was honored for his seamanship less than he should because of the Mutiny. Fletcher's brother had been involved in an aborted mutiny before and told him about it. Cogito ergo sum. If it were not for that event and the Christian estate being depleted of wealth I doubt Fletcher would have done it. Nobody would be calling Admiral Bligh "Captain Bligh" in the history books.
Admiral Bligh was just another working man that got his name trashed by the rich for his ambition and the temerity of wanting to be in the club.
Almost the opposite of the 1984 version, where Bligh is praised for saving the men on the open launch.
Bligh and Christen would meet again 16 years later as Council Members of the Planet Krypton.
I love the writing in this scene. Very well-crafted sentences.
Tracy Winters Henry Danielle was just right for his part in this brief scene: a stroke of genius or a very happy accident that he was picked to deliver the court's verdict. He died in 1963, soon after the picture was released.
And very well delivered by Henry Danielle! Great actor!
Tracy Winters, and fiction.
@@randynundlall2601 Two people beat me to mention Henry Danielle, gifted with a voice as sharply edged as a sword and delivery equally suited to authority or villainy.
Daniell
What a remarkable voice Henry Daniell had. It gives majesty to a speech that would have been much less had it been given by a less vocally gifted actor.
Unfortunately he was one of the last of a generation of actors who
spent years in Rep honing their technique before appearing on TV or cinema screen. . Sadly ,none of the present ( or future ) crop will be capable of such a performance. . Too " posh "... and
doesn't tick the correct boxes.
Ah, yes, I knew I recognized that actor. He was a great villain in Sherlock Holmes films starring Basil Rathbone.
He served in the trenches in WWI and was invalided out after being wounded. Maybe he knew from experience the truth in the lines he was delivering.
If you listen closely I do believe He sounds alot like Jeremy Irons !!!
@@grega1972Well, they're both British.
Pretty accurate in terms of leadership being “punished” in the military, I’ve seen plenty of NCOs and Officers get numerous complaints about their conduct & nothing happens until someone openly does something like attempts suicide or up front tells higher up leadership during sensing sessions, and instead the other person is involuntarily separated and the NCO or Officers are moved to another unit without any reprimands
That's how things often work, but in this case it is not accurate. The Bounty mutineers mutinied because they had been getting free and hot sex from native women and wished to return for more hot sex. The idea of Bligh being a martinet is a fiction that arose decades later in a book. The Royal Navy clearly didn't think Bligh was bad news, they made him governor of New South Wales.
It's a film, in real life he rose to the rank of vice admiral, never take a film as truth, one should not the same with news papers and tv
In which country?
@@will-i-am-not Bligh was an Englishman who served in the British Navy. Sometime after the Bounty crew mutinied so they could go back to hot sex with native girls, the British Government made him governor of New South Wales, then a British colony in the land later known as Australia.
That happened to me in the civilian world with an abusive supervisor. I made verbal and written complaints that were ignored until I snapped and yelled at him, actually I screamed at him.
It took that to catch the attention of a high level manager to look at the situation. I thought I was gonna get fired, but all that happened was that the manager told me to have a good day and to take care.
I’m thinking they may have had a little talk because the abuse stopped. But man, I was scared that I was gonna get my walking papers.
Incredibly damning. They were openly calling him out for not being a gentleman. Now that may seem like nothing to us now or at best a joke or a meme in this day and age, but that’s like calling a samurai “dishonourable”, or a knight “unchivalrous”. It’s just about the biggest slap in the face that they could have given him. If you were not a gentleman as well as an officer, you were nothing.
Yeah, and it is quite unhistorical as well. Bligh was lauded for his command.
It’s like a rock star telling Wayne and Garth they aren’t worthy.
Bligh getting that verbal slap down was not a small deal. In fact, it was quite the opposite.
That's not really accurate. "Gentleman" at the time referred to someone of the upper class. It depended on your birth, not your personal qualities. Gentlemen may have been expected to comport themselves with honour, but the failure to do so didn't mean you weren't a gentleman. Just not a very good one. I don't think the statement made in the clip is one anyone in the 18th century would have made.
The Bounty captain was a Blight on the Navy and his first mate acted with true Christian charity in protecting his abused crew.
@@us-Bahn What? Seriously? Well, that is how the film partially portrays it, I guess.
Unbeatable performance as Admiral Hood.
"The appointment of Captain William Bligh was, in that respect, a failure"
Oh yeah, in those days telling an officer that he’s not a gentleman was brutal. Seriously, that’s a big deal.
A massive slap in the face, for sure.
Bligh’s low birth was the central point of contention between him and Fletcher Christian in the film.
Trivia: The admiral who delivered the 'findings of the court' was played by Henry Daniell, an English actor, best known for his villainous film roles, but who had a long and prestigious career on stage as well as in films... He is uncredited in this film which was strange considering the excellence of his brief performance in it... Truly a spectacular movie in the tradition of the great MGM classics... Excellent on all levels, and truly worthy of the 7 Academy Award nominations it received... THIS is the movie that forever made me a fan of Brando, and of Trevor Howard.
Heimdallr I saw Henry Daniell play Moriarty in the 1945 Sherlock Holmes film “The Woman in Green.”
Daniell looked a sour piece of work on screen but he must have had something extra off it : it is said that he had six children. He died in 1963, so this effective little cameo must have been one of his last roles.
That speech delivered by Henry Daniell is for me, one of those "moments" in film -- alluded to once by Jimmy Stewart in an interview -- that in itself is almost worth the price of admission.
I seem to remember Henry Daniel in several roles, including if Im not mistaken, George Washington, whom he does you have to admit , resemble, especially in the Admirals uniform here.
@@None-zc5vg You, too, will look like "a sour piece of work" when you get that old...
That speech is one of the most pertinent and effective I have ever seen on film--whether historically accurate or not. This version of the Bounty saga, is without doubt, the most spectacular and entertaining. Filmed in Tahiti , visually exciting, and best musically scored version of all. With a detailed remake of the ship, ( the REAL Star) taken from original plans (with some added space for filming, and a diesel engine for close maneuvering ) The huge cost almost bankrupted MGM. But, we have a unbeatable film to enjoy for posterity. It is highly unlikely, that spectacular films like this, will ever be made again. BUY IT--I did, AND the 5 disc CD Box-SET.
Philip Croft Yes, a great speech. It actually struck me as one of those transcendent "moments" in film that Jimmy Stewart once alluded to in an old Parkinson interview. I will always remember the power of those final words to the captain.
Philip Croft ... The delivery of the 'dressing-down of Bligh' is a tribute to the power of the English language, properly used... Performances such as this in film have caused me to stop using slang entirely and that alone has caused a noticeable improvement in my command of the language. Henry Daniell was hand-picked for that part, I'm sure.
You ought to read Trevor Howard's biography "A Gentleman and a Player", in which is outlined his *ENORMOUS FRUSTRATION* dealing with Marlon Brando, because of MB's joking attitude toward film making and his improvisations with the script. *No wonder the film sank like a stone at the box office.*
(The book is available on the Internet Archive: archive.org/)
@@Heimdallr00 very true the English language when spoken in this manner is so magnificent
@@altongrimes Henry Daniell's 'finest hour'.
Made up or not, it's always great to see a movie villain fall from grace this way and so eloquently. Much better than dropping off a cliff.
He didn't fall far. He proved to be one of if not THE best celestinal navigator in the world at that time
He was given a bigger ship and then got the breadfruit, fought with distinction with Nelson and eventually rose to the rank of Vice-Admiral.
@@chrismc410
That’s really too bad. And how many more men did he kill along the way?
@@robertacolarette1594 during the open launch journey one was killed by natives. Whilst he was still in command of the Bounty, one but that happened long before they got to Tahiti
The more I look at Bly the more I understand that he’s viewed differently on how people view authority. Basically the historical bly all things considered was just given bad cards as overall his “Tyranny” was average for the time or borderline tame but because he has no marines to back him up he was singled out as the tyrant. Overall both sides in the mutiny had justified reasons as to why they did what they did. However history of each era following this event decides to paint bly how they view authority. During the mid 20th century bly was portrayed as a tyrant probably due to the recent tide of dictatorship that people fought against in recent years. However in later decades he’s portrayed in a more sympathetic light that views him as a man more than evil captain. Overall I prefer the more sympathetic version as I believe judging from the logs and writings that while the man was with criticism he wasn’t a man of villainous intentions. Also the fact that he survived the voyage to the Dutch colony from Tahiti is nothing short of amazing.
Additional perspective on Bligh’s gentlemanly demeanor on board can be got by researching the outcomes of his subsequent voyages.
Camus once wrote, "Filth and decency are just words. Everything is just words. All my life I wanted there to be something other than words. That's what I lived for, so that words would have a meaning, so that they would be deeds also."
Total burnination!!! Great acting.
For Captain Bligh to have been told point blank that he was not a gentleman and that the Admiralty in fact regretted assigning him as captain - what a slap to the face. Even as he had supposedly won the case.
As they say in Sandhurst, "There are no bad soldiers, only bad Officers". But the truth is, Bligh was an excellent Officer. In real life he was acquitted of any wrongdoing and was never reprehended. The fact that he was able to reach Timor in such conditions - I always wondered if he reached Dutch or Portuguese Timor - is absolutely outstanding.
And so it goes with historical fiction & drama. The people were typically real but the dialogue & details are guesswork per the author's & screenwriter's imaginations.
"No code can cover all contingencies"....in 32 years as a L.E.O. I only had one boss who was smart enough to realize & acknowledge that...he was a smart cookie
What is an L.E.O.?
@@tardis11111I was wondering that too. What is a L.E.O?
So you spent 32 years telling lies, ruining lives, falsified police reports, perjury, overtime fraud and closing your eyes to police corruption every single day you wore shit covered badge on your chest? That's what cops do.
@@tardis11111 A pure evil piece of schit, trained liar, and the putrid filth of humanity, also known as a "police officer." They set the standard for pure evil government corruption.
Wise. Apt. And completely lost on many people reading it today who staunchly believe what they're told regardless of the decency (or lack thereof) behind it.
We must consider a thing: in the XVIII century, a ship as soon as she was far for land, if it was not, a part of a fleet, was absolutely alone and self sustained, without ANY possible help from the base in case of trouble. Any mistake could end in shipwrek and quite certainely death of all the crew. And the crew was made of hard men that respected only force. In XXI th century, when there is GPS, radio and crewmen are often well educated men and women with good attitude and character, there is no need to be harsh. But in XVIIIthh century Captains HAD TO BE as strong as possible
In laymen's terms the court said he was no gentleman.
2019 DE yes, l agree, "justice and decency are carried in the heart of the captain or they be not aboard" Bligh's idea of discipline does not match at all with a captain of the admiralty.
No, he was not a gentleman. Back than honor, honesty and discipline had a meaning!
Captain Bligh was just layman (eating stinking cheese, stealing food and blaming others), who drilled him self up to the rank of captain by ambition, hard work and ruthlessness.
That's why he only received missions, like in this case, expedition, bringing back bread fruits, not commanding military ship!
There are many rules in the book, but it takes a gentleman to apply it the right way against his man!
szaki, clearly, you know nothing about the real history. Nor about Bligh the man. I'd say he was much more of a man than you.
@@normanbraslow7902 Now Now Norman...Did any of you serve under Captain Bligh...if not at this point all is conjecture and speculation...even if you read the log of the bounty, the other side of the story will nay be heard...aaargh!
Olivier Bolton, try to read Caroline Alexander, "The Bounty", perhaps the best researched study on the subject. She does not pull any punches. Pay specific attention to her account of the Christian family's major efforts to blacken Bligh to try and save the reputation of the Christian family from the disgrace. I've read plenty of Royal Navy history, and Bligh comes off as brilliant, irascible, but he never wantonly maltreated his men as alleged by the Christians. All navy officers swore, perhaps Bligh was more vocal than some, less than others. My impression is that to serve under him would have been rigorous, demanding, but if one exerted ones best efforts so that he could see that, there would be no lasting problems. Do you have any idea at all of the rigors of commanding a ship like the Bounty? Unrelenting discipline and obedience to orders was demanded, or all hands could die, and the ship lost. Christian was, simply put, a spoiled brat who could no or would not be disciplined, and went off the rails. He deserved to be hanged.
The dialogue is fabulous.
It just hit me , Henry Daniell the Admiral delivering the speech could have been Jeremy Irons father they sound most alike
Here is what Patrick O'Brian says about Bligh, from his Aubrey/Maturin novel "Desolation Island":
"Captain Bligh - a capital navigator - very touchy himself, but had no notion of how he offended others - would give you the lie in front of all hands one day and invite you to dinner the next - you never knew where you were with him - led Christian, the master’s mate, a sad life of it, yet probably liked him in his own strange way - never knew where he was with Bounty’s people - no idea at all - was amazed when they turned on him- an odd, whimsical man: had gone to great pains to teach Heywood how to work his lunar observations, yet had sworn his life away with a most inveterate malice - had also brought his carpenter to court-martial for insolence, and that after they had survived the voyage in the launch together - four thousand miles in an open boat, and you bring a man to trial at Spithead!"
he has many traits of sociopathic behaviour, even that of a psychopath.
Actually, compared to other British commanders of the time he was rather sparing in punishments. He would only dress down crew members where other Captains would've flogged them, and flogged crew members whereas other ship Captains of the time would've executed the wayward crew members.
Bligh was far from unusually strict or harsh by 18th century standards. Captain Cook was more strict, for example, but loved by his crews because he was fair and consistent. The trouble with Bligh, and what made him unfit for any real authority, was that you never knew what might set him off. An offense that earned a reprimand on a Monday could earn flogging on a Tuesday. That's the kind of wild unpredictability that causes mutinies, prison riots, peasant revolts, etc. The tension becomes unbearable and people strike out of fear that the authority will finally destroy them.
This movie's treatment of the historical material is a travesty, but as a work of fiction it is absolutely excellent.
But it is just that; a work of fiction.
@@nocturnalrecluse1216 Yes, but it claims to be more.
@@nocturnalrecluse1216Yes it is. And that makes it so annoying. I always felt: If you make a work of fiction, make it any way you like. Take real life event as inspiration, but make it clear fiction.
But if you take a real life event and keep all the participants in it, then you own it to the participants to be accurate and NOT make it a work of fiction. Even if Bligh was dead at the time the move was made for 150 years, he was a real man. He deserves to be remembered the way he was. If he was a criminal, remember him as such. But he was not.
He was a good seaman, he was in general a fair officer, he punished quite little and usually very light compared to the standard of the time and he grew to become a rear admiral in the following years for everybody, admiralty and fellow officers, saw him as a good choice for further promotion.
He deserves to be remembered as such OR not at all and be just one of many names one reads in historical documents and maybe a book for proffessional historians. If a filmmaker pulls him out of his rellative obscurity, he owes it to the legacy of the real man Bligh to be accurate.
In such a small part, Henry Daniell commanded the screen and delivered this brilliantly written speech like a master. My admiration for him began with “Sherlock Holmes and the Woman in Green,” where he portrayed Basil Rathbone’s favourite Professor Moriarty. And then there was one of the greatest swashbucklers of all time, “The Sea Hawk,” in which he crossed swords with Errol Flynn.
That was awesome
Excellent film with great actors! Modern films no longer achieve the impressive effect of the monumental films from the sixties. No one could play the role of Captain Bligh better than Trevor Howard. It was undoubtedly his most important film role. The sailing ship Bounty was built especially for this film. The rest is history. 👍
Rapier. Sharp. Swift. Straight to the heart. No ambiguity here. AWOL IS A COMMAND PROBLEM.
There was also a mutiny against Bligh in Australia when he was Governor of NSW. My understanding is happened when Bligh tried to break up a monopoly that a few select men were getting rich from and they sent him packing back to England.
that is correct. Bligh was once again seen as the innocent party, and rightly so. Best Governor NSW ever had
Poor guy was destined in life to have mutinies against him.
The Rum Rebellion as it was termed.
Bligh was an interesting man, he rose from the ranks and so in fact was indeed not a gentleman, he was however an exceptional navigator and seaman, over 4,000 miles in an open boat is remarkable achievement especially in those days. It is entirely possible that he was not harsh enough with the men, and that combined with his up from the ranks status would result in a lack of discipline
Plus, Bounty carried no Marines. The fact is that at the time mutinies were quite common and, despite the noble (and probably unsaid) word, discipline was harsh across the board, coupled with poor conditions of service. Hence the mutinies at Spithead and the Nore soon afterwards. And it should be noted that Bligh's ship was the last to do so. Re Tahiti, I agree. Bligh let is men loose to enjoy the extended stay. He then had to restore that order single-headedly. Christian and the other officers were basically useless and part of the crew wanted to stay there. .We see how they fell apart at Pitcairn. In short. A superb film but total fiction.
Oh, hush...
The rebuke was but a blip on his career and he eventually retired with the rank of Rear Admiral.
That's because it's fictional. The historical Bligh wasn't a cruel psychopath like the Bligh here.
Should have been tossed overboard with the stinkin plants.
@@shiroamakusa8075 Correction: the historical Bligh most certainly **WAS** a cruel psychopath! Once they reached land, he abandoned all of his shipmates, many of whom died from privation. Even today, for any officer to be termed a "Captain Bligh" is an automatic rebuke...
'Rules are for the obedience of fools, and the guidance of wise men' Group Captain Harry Day GC, DSO, OBE, RFC/RAF 1898-1977
a failure to appoint him???.....yet he went on to command and serve alongside Nelson in the Battle of the Baltic as Captain of HMS Elephant......a ship of the line where even Nelson himself praised his efforts during the battle.
Didn’t stop him from becoming a Rear Admiral in the Royal Navy and Governor of New South Wales (Australia).
As far as i know that's because the real Bligh was not such a monster. He was far from perfect, but he cared for his men and his officers. The reason for the real mutiny was not Bligh. Instead the many months on Tahiti were to blame. Many men lost their discipline through that time and can't get used to it again when they started the long journey home. I like this movie, but historically it's not very accurate.
@@Maverick4583 Am reading that the "Rum Rebellion" was instigated against Bligh, which begs the question of how it is that so many of his subordinates turned on him. There's a there there. Whether it was because of excessive discipline or its lack. More interesting to me is how a historical figure like this is portrayed. Tells you something about a society in which insurrectionists are the good guys and the governor is the bad guy.
@@Maverick4583 you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.
@@doriangray2020 i only wrote what i read sometime ago. It is also known that this movie is not historically accurate. The movie with Anthony Hopkins and Mel Gibson is, as far as i know, much more accurate. And in this movie is shown that Bligh is Not the Monster he is believed to be. Like i said, he was not perfect but he also wasnt a total asshole either. But i am curious, what are you talking about?
@@Kermit_T_Frog True, but, it makes for a better movie.
Very different conclusions than in the Hopkins-Gibson remake..
This is based works that drew from the propaganda campaign of the Heywood and Christian families. The Bounty (84?) draws more from subsequent historical research, which, if anything, shows Bligh to be more lax than the typical British captain of his day.
The best version of "The Muntiny of the Bounty." My humble opinion.
I prefer the 1984 version with Anthony Hopkins
Definitely !
Agreed.
Probably the most exciting to watch, but not the most historically accurate. Bligh was a basket case and a half, but not in the way he's portrayed here. He was always accusing his officers (not his men - his officers!) of ridiculous crimes like stealing his coconuts.
@@morten1 Anthony Hopkins might be as good, or even better, an actor than Trevor Howard, however Mel Gibson is definitely no Marlon Brando, who I would even rate higher than Clark Gable. I would rate Charles Laughton equal to Howard.
1935 to 1962 to 1984. We seem to be overdue for another remake.
The navy was one of few places where a low born could rise through the ranks - yes class structure still remained and nobility ensured high rank no matter which service you joined - but in the navy was a greater chance of reward in taking of ships and cargo, where in the army the common soldier often had to loot the dead and helpless and hide their fortunes in their uniform till they could deposit it or make use of it.
It is amazing the acting Daniel Day Lewis who played the hated "Captain Fryer", seemed like a gentlemen in the 1984 "The Bounty", unlike the absolute monsters he played "Gangs of New York" and "There will be blood".
This is known as "range" in the acting profession...
Omg. I never noticed that the admiral said they failed in making sure Bligh was a gentleman. Back in those days saying something like that harsh!
Well, that's kind of the fog of history. Bligh wasn't a Captain. He was a lieutenant, and an old one at that. They called him "Captain" out of respect for his position. Christian, also a Lieutenant, actually "out-ranked" Bligh socially. Bligh came up through the ranks. Christian was born into it and thus, a "proper gentleman". Things get murky here. Although Bligh wasn't "high-born", he wasn't a commoner either. By 1700's standards, he was a potty mouth. Something a gentleman simply doesn't do. There was a lot in play, social circles and political circles.
Bligh didn't look too happy at the end lol.
Well, he did his job, but the ego got to his head...
He never looked happy unless he was inflicting pain.
Just as an aside. Captain Bligh went on to become a Vice-Admiral and The Governor of New South Wales. He retired to a large townhouse in London which was near to what is now the Imperial War Museum. He had eight children. He collapsed and died of a heart attack on 7th December 1817 aged 63 years in Bond Street, London.
Utterly failed as a governor.
Fascinating history, thank you.
@@JB-yb4wn YES, HIS CRASS BEHAVIOUR TOWARDS WHAT WAS ACTUALLY A PENAL COLONY, AND CAUSED MASS RIOTS THERE, HE WAS RELIEVED OF HIS POST.
TO MY SURPRISE, HE ALSO HAS A MONUMENT , AT THE SIDE OF THE THAMES ENBANKMENT, OR IS THAT HIS BURIAL SITE. ?
@@MrDaiseymay Captain Bligh was buried at St Mary-at-Lambeth on 15th December, 1817. It is now The Garden Museum.
After what is considered the most amazing open water journey, Captain Bligh went on to deliver bread fruit.
Cristian endeded up getting killed. Three voyages.
I love how politely the noble British can slander your character
It's what the language is for. It's LITTERAL MEANING, plus emphasis.
The English language is a very powerful tool to have. Churchill for instance used it to great effect to defeat our enemy in wartime.
The British made that into an art form.
Bligh had a long and successful career and died an admiral
Despite being subject to two other separate Court Martial proceedings.
The whole expedition was a clusterup from the getgo. Bligh was an excellent navigator and seaman, one of the best in the RN, but he was saddled with a bunch of ner-do-wells, including Fletcher Christian. Bligh did not have an effective First officer, he had to fulfill that role, as well as Captain. The Bounty was both overcrowded and undermanned. In hindsight the voyage was doomed to fail.
Oh, shut up. There was no excuse for what Bligh did, nor will there ever be...
@@CLASSICALFAN100 What the hell do you know about it (apart from BS movies). Grow up, meanwhile FU.
@@CLASSICALFAN100 Seriously? Your argument is "shut up"? Bligh was an excellent sailor. Fletcher Christian was a screw up.
Bligh was an exceptionally good Captain who was slandered by Hollywood.
In layman's terms "Absolved of military misdeed" means "You're off the hook"
Bligh was completely exonerated by the Admiralty, and continued his naval career; he was even promoted.
And he richly deserved every promotion he received. Christian was the real villain in this.
AND YET---he later was put in control of one of Australias Colony's, and they rioted against his leadership, and was sent home. Perhaps PEOPLE, wasn't his Forte.
@@borleyboo5613 how do you figure that?
@@MrDaiseymay Bligh was not at fault. It was MacArthur running a racket in the colony. Bligh tried to stop it
If the later Hopkins movie is to be believed , the mission is of the utmost importance in bringing back the breadfruit to feed the slaves . Bligh was not at fault in carrying out this task, however , I am sure the Admiralty would not condone the crew of the Bounty setting up homes on the Island and starting families there . This wasnt the end of Bligh as he fought alongside Nelson at Trafalger and then went on to run a coffee plantation before being sacked by the island governors .
he was Governor of New South Wales
..."the admiralty has always sought to appoint its officers from the ranks of gentlemen.." nothing like the English class system eh? And it's alive and kicking in 2022!
Are you not a gentleman then. ?
Outstanding! Where can I get a transcipt?!
Oh the beauty of the English language...
To such extent that my English is oficially considered very good (I'm Portuguese) and I felt hard pressed to understand without resorting to the subtitles. It was a very exquisite English indeed! 😬
Implying that someone was not a gentleman in that era would be absolutely devastating. He would certainly have never received another appointment. Moreover, he would have been finished in polite society. In fact, the Admiralty never made those comments and Blithe had a fine career after Bounty.
British naval officers were not considered to be gentlemen.
@@alexkilgour1328 I've no idea where you get this from. It was one of the very few careers open to younger sons of the nobility. George V was a naval officer for about a decade, starting as a midshipman.
In other words I hope you enjoyed your career!
Real life: Captain Bligh went on to become a Vice-Admiral and The Governor of New South Wales. He retired to a large townhouse in London which was near to what is now the Imperial War Museum. He had eight children. He collapsed and died of a heart attack on 7th December 1817 aged 63 years in Bond Street, London
Trevor copped it again in the charge of the light brigade
Raglan admonished him
For black bottle affair!
That movie was a remake of the 1937 film which made Bligh a villain. The Bounty of 1984 was far more factual and showed Bligh to be the man he was. Christian & his mutineers were a rabble and did not want to leave Tahiti, the main cause of all the trouble. Bligh was no flogger, like most captains in those days, including Cook. Bligh retired an Admiral of the Blue.
Having been mutinied against multiple occasions afterward, notably as Governor of New South Wales, where he was deposed.
@@pendorran that’s true, he stopped the “Rum Corps” military dictatorship. They deposed him, yes, but it ended their regime. He was a man with backbone, that’s for sure!
Henry Daniell played the court judge and his performance stole the whole court scene.
There is a Statue of William Bligh in Sydney (The Rocks, which is near the Opera House).
And, I've no doubt that there will eventually be a Donald Trump statue somewhere...
This isn't 'Bounty', this is 'Mutiny On The Bounty', with Trevor Howard as Bligh instead of Anthony Hopkins.
An excess of zeal.
That's one way to put it.
I wonder if this addendum from 1:00 onwards is accurate to historical record. After HMS Bounty's loss, Bligh was given command of nine HM warships, including four ships of the line. Presumably he had the confidence of the Admiralty.
I recommend William Bligh's account, "Mutiny on Board HMS Bounty." It's only 200 pages long.
Bligh impressed me as a highly competent seaman. His description of his 3000 nautical mile voyage on a 30 foot long boat with loyal sailors is compelling.
Before the Mutiny, Bligh notes that before any of his men were allowed land liberty on any of the South Pacific islands, the ship's surgeon examined them for venereal diseases. If a crew member manifested symptoms, he was not permitted shore leave. I thought that Bligh's consideration for the native populations' health was highly enlightened for an 18th century European man. It was probably also one reason his crew mutinied against him.
He was a competent seaman but bad manager/diplomat. After this he had one more revolt in NSW. So it must be his fault also...
@@kaiserjager2754 I disagree with you concerning Bligh's lack of diplomatic skills. From what I have read of him he was exceedingly respectful toward the native populations whom he encountered during his voyages in the Pacific.
His management style might have been draconian by contemporary standards. A sea captain is an absolute monarch on his vessel and some are more enlightened than others. He must have had some crew members who respected his ability and his command. Otherwise they would not have joined him on that 30 foot boat provisioned with minimal food and water, and would have instead joined the mutineers. Only a couple of short chapters in Bligh's memoirs are devoted to the mutiny. The most gripping pages concern that 3000 nautical mile voyage from open seas to the Dutch East Indies on that 30 foot open boat.
I have read arguments asserting Bligh's behavior as that of a martinet. The rebellion against him in Australia suggests this.
I have seen the three major Hollywood movies about the Mutiny. The last one, with Anthony Hopkins and Mel Gibson I consider the most accurate depiction of the events.
Wrong. He cleaned up the illegal importation of soul destroying rum into the colony. The most popular name for male newborns in the colony at this time? William.@@kaiserjager2754
@@johnbowen2956captain cook said of bligh; "he chastised when he should have flogged and flogged when he should have hung"
Hardly Hollywoods portrayal of the man.
@@johnbowen2956 Well perhaps I missexpressed myself or I was missunderstood. What I want to say is that Bligh obiviously wasn't good in men management and conflict situations
the reason for mutiny was blithe's age and his lack of control he was 33 neither this movie or the bounty 1984 produces a great depiction of blythe
Blighs biggest mistake was that he took no marines on board bounty. Cook and flinders took note and had a complement of men is scarlet to keep the peace.
Wonder if Vancouver had any troubles with his men?
The problem Bligh had was that the breadfruit trees in Tahiti required 5 months to mature to the size necessary for successful transport. That gave the crew 5 months of living quite merrily among the natives whose moral code was notably less stringent. Small wonder that they weren't anxious to make another long voyage on a cramped ship with no female companionship.
Bligh had a very successful career after the HMS Bounty. He must have been a very impressive person.
Btw: It wasn't the only mutiny he saw.
Both barrels!
the mgm hms bounty from rge marlon brando movie may have sunk off the coast of Florida because of a stupid captain and hurricane sandy however the mel gibsin bounty is floating in Sydney Australia. thank god
The Brando movie sank without a trace at the box office, as well...lol
As stupid a "Captain" as Theresa May? Talk about the UK headed for a **MAJOR TRAIN WRECK** !!
www.bbc.com/news/uk-46407249
Ouch !
Never saw the movie, only this scene. What struck me first: All judges sitting in a court martial of the Royal Navy of the time must be at least of the rank of captain. And captains and above wore two epaulettes at the time.
Obviously the court was manned by a lot of very old Lieutenants.
1935 was the Clark Gable version
This was the 1962 version with Marlon Brando
1984 was the Mel Gibson version
“They can hardly evade us for long.”
I don’t know, but “forever” is a fairly long time…
@@Michael.96 They found them all, shipped the survivors to Norfolk Island didnt they, didnt they rest go down with HMS Pandora, locked in a cage on deck. My recollection of history anyway. I have visited restoration Island where Bligh landed after the mutiny, off the Cape York coast of QLD, they did well to survive.
Any Seagoing Navy Veteran is familiar with the varied attitudes and standards of their Commanding Officer. In the case of Captain Bligh, he was a sadistic tyrant. No man of such hatred toward his fellows should be in command of a ship. Even the Board of this Investigation found fault with Bligh's methods.
Spirit of the law, not the words....
Bligh was a very very capable man and if you wanted to survive someone to sail with. Read his memoir. The crew knew it whatever his sharp tongue. .
What happened later in Pitcairn was horrible. They actually slaughtered each other to the last, including Fletcher Christian who was killed with an axe.
Yes , Basically The Admiralty told Bligh We are clearing you of any wrong doing , But Good Officers and seamen alike were moved to mutiny against you and We normally pick our Officers from amongst upstanding Gentleman , But when we picked you , We screwed up and made a mistake !!!
Despite this, Lt. Bligh was eventually promoted to "Captain". Military politics.
One small point. It is the Royal Navy not British Navy
Its both
Ouch . To go from absolved to indirectly blamed in one munute.
He wasn't rebuked.., just a note on his record, that's it.
@@philauguste7310 A note saying basically, "you had all these men of fine character mutiny, there's something suspect about that."
@@JnEricsonx well considering he became a Vice Admiral, I would say that that I was on the mark
Basically the admiralty told Bligh he was no gentleman.
Great colourisation of this footage 👍
You're seeing what is known in the business as "Glorious Technicolor." The film was shot in it and was not colorized.
@@jkorshak 🙉 You mean it’s not an original black & white film from 1789 at the actual event and later colourised ? Gosh 🤪
@@Cabdrum1 Neither is it a b&w film shot in 1962 and colorized later.
It was shot in Technicolor in 1962. The 1935 version with Charles Laughton was in B&W and has been colourized. This 1962 version bombed, the 1935 version won best picture.
@@Cabdrum1 The original novel is in black and white, as are the illustrations and drawings done at the time. I do not think they have been colorized yet, but given time, someone will. :-)
This was only the first of two mutinies against Bligh.
The other was the Rum Rebellion.
Leading men was - apparently - not 'his thing'.
☮
Yea!! I'd pretty much quit after that!!
A small correction. British Naval Officers are not considered Gentlemen.
"The Navy has officers trying to be gentlemen, the army has gentlemen trying to be officers and the RAF neither trying to be both!"
More or less called him a cruel and incompetent leader of men, you lead men by example not fear...
Oh, and keel-hauling was banned and not carried out aboard Bounty and it is noted that Bligh flogged fewer men than Cook. Indeed, the evidence shows that he was very concerned for the health and well-being of his men.
See "Love of Evil" comment above...lol
This was a serious rebuke to Bligh.
1:55 "... It is for this reason that the Admiralty has always sought to appoint his officers from the ranks of gentlemen" It is safe to say this no longer applies to those in political power. At least in The Netherlands.
If I have my facts straight only two men were eventually hanged.
An excess of zeal cannot be condemned..... should be questionable. When the seamen are deprived of drinking fresh water and resort to sea water. Inhumane zeal is condemnable.
...and the [illegal] keelhauling must have been left out of the evidence (the ship's log must have stayed on the "Bounty").
The part about "voluntary seamen all" raised an eye-brow for me. As I recall, several of the sailors were impressed.
So he is most honorably acquitted but not really? 🤔
Any idea what the name of the ship was where Captain Bligh was captain?
But he was given a ship to chase the mutineers and ended his career as a vice-admiral.
A great scene, but the (fictional) court would have had to consider the illegal (and fictional) keelhauling incident when it was judging whether or not the captain had administered justice "according to the articles of war": there would, of course, have been witnesses to it among the crewmen who returned with Bligh.
Anon Anon yes, but l believe most of those who returned back were in fact very scared of Bligh, and they knew he is from another class and will have friends who will be commanders of other ships these seamen will eventually embark into.
@@randynundlall2601 If Bligh had actually killed a crewman by keelhauling him, something would have gone in the ship's log, if only to register mendaciously that the man had died during some kind of lawful punishment (e.g. flogging). I always thought that Christian was the one with the influential friends, rather than Bligh.
Anon Anon yes, quite right, but l am very tempted to think that he might have omitted that entry, he was in charge of the logbook. But yes, they simply disregarded it. Not nice!
The witnesses would be too afraid back then.
The court's findings are unjustified and ignorant. No other man in the court room would have the resolve or dignity or tenacity to lead men under these most impossible odds and keep them alive.
A Royal Navy Legend.
Cook did.
King's regulations don't cover every situation as bligh found out
He was ousted from Australia
In 1808 by officers in the rum rebellion!
This is an example of why Britain and its former colonies - America, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand became the most prosperous countries in the world and why the rest of the world wants to live in these countries today, whereas most of the former Spanish and French colonies are corrupt and impoverished. Two former British colonies in Africa, Zimbabwe, formerly Rhodesia, and South Africa had the strongest economies and were by far the richest on that continent with Rhodesia being nicknamed 'the breadbasket of Africa'. However, as soon as they were handed back to the indigenous people it didn't take too long for both countries to fall into economic chaos and social disorder.
What is the example, exactly? Both Rhodesia and South Africa were set up as racially separated countries. Canada sure as hell wasn't.
I rather doubt that this is actually part of the record, rather it is the invention of Hollywood.
The initial inquiry wouldn't have had such a statement because only Bligh and crew loyal to him were heard. Later after the Court Martial of the mutineers who were captured were tried (some were found innocent, some pardoned and some hanged) and Fletcher Christian's brother wrote an expose on Bligh's treatment of the crew, the Navy's opinion (and the public's) of Bligh's behavior changed. He still had a long career, but he was given a Court Martial for using bad language against his officers at one point and was not given sea duty.
Charon58 you had best read Caroline Alexander's book on the mutiny. Your thinking may change dramatically. Mine did.
@@normanbraslow7902 Didn`t Bligh go on to govern a colony in Australia?
I seem to recall they mutinied against him too. That`s just from memory ,maybe I`m wrong.
I know that after a lifetime of reading history and all its alternative views and theories ,often the reality is that which was the common belief at the time.
BillyCaspersGhost, You are right. It's an interesting story. Read Caroline Johnson's book on the mutiny as she gives a very good account of it. In brief, the established British Army officers there had formed a very corrupt criminal organization. Bligh tried to correct the situation, and they forced him to take refuge in Royal Navy ship offshore. He refused to leave until properly replaced. As I recall, the Army officers were punished. He was the CO on a ship during the famous Spithead Mutiny when a dozen or so ships crews refused to sail due several captains and other officers gross mistreatment. Bligh was not one of the COs the crews accused of mistreatment. Bligh intervened to prevent several of his crew from being punished. Later Bligh was the CO of a ship at the Battle of Copenhagen under Admiral Nelson and conducted himself with such bravery that Nelson personally congratulated him in public on Nelson's ship. Bligh had his faults, but he was a consummate Royal Navy officer.
Hollywood taking liberties. Shocker!