[PSO2 NGS] Original PSO and NGS Combat Comparison
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- Опубліковано 30 чер 2024
- My rusty self quickly downloads Phantasy Star Online Blue Burst with bad button mapping to show you the immediate obvious differences in depth between it and PSO2 NGS.
![[PSO: Blue Burst] Gearing Your Character (Part 1: Normal & Hard)](/img/n.gif)
I liked that PSO felt "serious" PSO NGS feels like an endless loop of tickets, trinkets, and seasonal parties. The danger and dread of dark falz and the state of affairs is missing in NGS.
I miss how the appearance of the tech spells would upgrade into grander displays of power, the higher the level you obtained in them. Also, if you obtain Anti that is higher than level 10, you can cure any status ailment. The weapons had special abilities built in, like the spread needle can paralyze entire groups of monsters, (which comes in handy in Ultimate mode). The snow queen freezes all monsters in its path (no elemental build up required), Megid had an RNG instant kill that could wipe out groups with one touch, the list goes on. Casts cannot be poisoned because they are not organic, and they can always see traps that are cloaked, and can't be seen by non-cast characters. I miss the attention to detail that made things more unique, but I do love having a dodge button. x)
this is what ive been saying for a while, it feels like every interaction with enemies in ngs is the same
Il be honest I prefer the gameplay of Base PSO2 by far over NGS. Original PSO as you mentioned is all bout spacing and manipulating AI behavior. In PSO the room size and enemy spawn location was important to optimizing combat. Character classes in PSO where very significant and MAG leveling was a nightmare if you wanted a specific mag with purely one stat and when reaching endgame you will realize that depending your stat distribution you could use some very specific weapons. PSO2 was fun because it was more Devil May Cry style but still had some of that PSO dungeon maps and leveling the I liked. NGS has the same enemies on almost every map at launch and the weapons just are stat sticks without any interesting perk.
What I liked about playing Force in PSO is micro-managment of TechPoints and strategically lining up enemies to use Barta on since it pierces and damages multiple at once, conserving TechPoints among other situations that involved prioritizing strong or troublesome targets, enemies in general were more mechanically interesting even more than base pso2 IMO, like those big mantis things you have to quickly get behind or they stuck you in place plus they have trouble turning.
I think what PSO excels at is basically being an ambush game and I like replaying quests cause they have the same spawn patterns everytime letting you learn to speedrun things and learn positioning, with everything out in the open now and players being super fast and jump high all that depth is pretty much out the window.
I may have glossed over some of my experience there but yeah its overall more mechanically interesting.
Yes there was a fun element of being a shepherd herding enemies to then use commands with the optimal area of attack, such as linear, cone, area in front, area around, the attack range etc. So each encounter based on enemy types and movements would have optimal technique / weapon / trap choice. You wouldn't just spam a single move all the time and each room has different random setups of enemies. On top of that your position away from the enemies matter because the enemies are pushed back and stunned briefly with each attack. This also matters when doing combo attacks with weapons which require a specific timing to press with stronger attacks having less accuracy and longer start-up animations making you vulnerable as well, each weapon and different characters have different animations and animation times for different weapons, so you would need to learn and know how much time you had to perform actions and still remain safe from enemy attacks.
Old good new bad: The video
The main difference is PSO have both solo and group content that has replayabilty
Classic PSO2 Combat: DMC levels of crazyness with how many different photon arts we have on each weapon. You are pressing inputs left and right at the right timing to not let the Just Attack damage bonus drop in a frenetic display of action that makes you feel powerful.
NGS Combat: You are holding a single button down most of the time, doing the equivalent of spamming Stinger over and over until the problem dies (most likely on 3 hits for regular mobs), not because it's the most effective, but because its the only thing we have.
Yeah, you wish!
@lupinthenerd439 what are you saying "you wish" for? Are you one of those coping r*t *rds that thinks NGS combat is good? Or are you "wishing" your parents wouldnt be so damn disappointed in you? I dont get it. But for your sake you better not say some sh*t like this again. Thanks.
You kinda skipped Base PSO2 right to NGS lol. Base PSO2 had Drops on the ground, Grinders, Skill Discs and Techniques discs that drops too.
But since then they had changed the game into a Full Action, you still need skill to play a class in order to defeat bosses that had fast attack phases. Now the whole methodical and positioning works well for a stand still tab targeting games like PSO1/PSU/PSP1&2 infinity. But it doesn't really matter anymore when monsters are much faster and more actively moving on a action game that is akin to Devil May Cry, it's more like positioning so you can hit the specific target on an enemy with your attacks on the fly.
Since they had gone full on action, they needed to animate each and every attack and techniques, so that means more work than the previous Stand still combat in the past. So they didn't provide as much depth as those games anymore.
Even worse, they streamlined the combat even further in NGS, so that it is accessible for even the most brain-dead players hence why there is even a Auto Skill button for every single class. They removed perfect attacks and reduce our flexibility of using techs on non Force/Techer weapons, making it actually even lesser variety than what we had in Base PSO2, where you can cast techs even if you are not equipping any Rods/Talis/Wand if the Class allows it. You can technically do Multiweapon with a Rod/Wand/Talis sure, but it's not as flexible anymore. Then they removed Resta And Anti in NGS so that everyone had to use Monomate items only(Restasigne and Revive flowers) instead of allowing a non-tech class to heal others, which I will see if they will change it in the future hopefully because I hated that I can't do anything to remove any Elemental Debuffs like Base PSO2 anymore.
Yes base PSO2 is more similar to PSO1. The thing is that everyone else seems to skip over PSO1 right to PSO2. So I figured I'd go further back in time to show how a 23 year old game had more depth and options in its gameplay. I still prefer PSO1 to any of the other online variants of the game. Also the combat in PSO1 still has the most depth to me because it's slow and offers the greatest amount of freedom to players. In NGS you need 1 out of 18 weapons to drop. In PSO1 you can use a variety of weapons, so if one drops it's usually not useless.
But yes the game is much flashier but loses a lot of depth. The removal of all the items from the other games in exchange of a stack of 10 flowers you pick up on the field is totally garbage too, lol. Also the techniques don't have different hitboxes so there are no situational uses for them, they just mostly blanket the area. Shifta and Deband are combined into one instant tap use button on a single class.
Every enemy in NGS is approached and fought the same way no matter what it looks like or what it does. Like when I used the strategy to engage the poison lily's with the handgun at range is something that would never happen in NGS. There's no variety in the gameplay at all, it's stale and boring without unique rewards. We spend all of our time collecting little capsules that are trash to exchange for stronger capsules to casino gamble it on gear. In PSO1 it was just like an accessory you equipped and unequipped attached to your gear, so when they dropped it was interesting. Also gear had varying base statistics and modifiers making even the same weapon or unit dropping have a chance to be unique or useful in certain situations. Being effective against certain enemy types, or having an elemental or status effect, or just having increased accuracy, etc.
Jeeze I could keep going.
@@KaydeTheFang Unfortunately it started from Base PSO2, and that most enemies just crumble as long as you deal enough damage. So they technically streamlined that combat system again to even more simplified in NGS. It's not like there isn't elemental reaction, it's more like that only usually happen to bosses really. But nowadays people are going to praise Genshin's Elemental reactions while technically they are just exaggerated elemental effects, and that had existed for so long in games lol.
I get that the slow paced combat would be cool and able to equip all kinds of weapons without issue is also fun to experiment at, but then are they 'Meta'? Well sure off meta could allow you to do fun stuff but nowadays people had optimized so much, that they'll go for the highest DPS and ignoring any other way to play the game. That and reduction of attention span of most young people nowadays because of TikTok and Fortnite is just going to laugh at PSO1's slow combat today, just like how they shamed Throne & Liberty's combat despite actually standing still while casting spells or skills are a PVP balancing move to nerf ranged classes when fighting against Melee classes.
This is the reality. They did a great job for making a good combat system, but in turn it's all just for show and the only important thing is how much DPS each PA or Technique deals instead of how to utilize them in unique ways. Even Base PSO2 had craftable PA and Techs and Skill Rings that allows you to change up how you play even. NGS, I just hope they bring back something like that from Base but upgraded hopefully(but it's probably gonna take forever to wait again lol).
You wanna blame why the game became this Sims like game, it's just that the Whales are just paying all the bills for most of the F2P players unfortunately.
@@KaydeTheFang why i feel like Ngs to PSO2 relasionships is like how PSU is to PSO1
same-ish PA spam combat compared to strategically and alternately used attack on PSO1 and PSO2
All classes in pso can use the handgun and all classes but cast can use techniques
Do u know if the online community for pso 1 and 2 still exsists
Pso2 base is dead pso1 has ephinea with 200+ players playing daily (yeah they are actually playing not just afking in the lobbies)
Oh god PSO.... Times have changed FROM it.
Has there ever been a spiritual successor to PSO1? With it's in-depth gameplay, I feel like one or two studios should have made one by now.
Phantasy Star Zero
Phantasy Star Portable 2 Infinity
@@japanesepassion3113 best game after PSO1
@InuzakaNaze to be honest i like deep customization aspect of New Genesis. But it lacks of survival aspect and mysterious grim atmosphere. Portable infinity has shield gameplay and the loot system is far better. I would enjoy a PSO Dreamcast remake with actual graphic, the character custom from NGS and shield gameplay roll from a Dark Souls.
I would say Monster Hunter comes closest in feel, given the 4 player co-op, variety of weapons and play styles, situational awareness, and attention to elemental resistances; but that's to be expected from Capcom's attempt at recreating Sega's PSO formula. The latest entries, MHW and MHR, both capture the pso essence. I would recommend TERA, but their pc servers have been shutdown (I think the console ones are still operating).
These are the topics that need to be brought up, because it's the lack of these systems in NGO is what killed it, and for what reason they did this? we may never find out.
Excuse me for a question that is out of topic, but what's your character clothes setup? Can you give some advice or hint what AC scratch to roll or what type of clothes to search?
It looked more clunky than deep tbh. Lots of ultimatly trivial choices.
Someone didnt do their research on PSO1 Hu types get level 10 techs Ra level 15 Fo level 20. The reason NGS is the way it is now is because if everyone had access to everything there would be no reason for specific classes. Also you make a game too complicated it drives your audience away. Simple is good.
I think nostalgia kills a lot of things, people want something to remain the same forever and spite anything that is different from the original. Seems like a lot of pso1/pso2 players finds any little reason to bash NGS for it not being like it's older iterations, and i get it but damn.
Also i think people forget that the future of pso in general is riding on ngs success especially when it comes to global audience, hell NA got base pso2 like 3 years ago because ngs was coming to global so that should say a lot.
No, what we want is for the game to play like a PSO game, something NGS doesn't do. If Sega wanted to make a game that wasn't PSO, then they should have made one. What they should do is evolve on the things it did well in previous games, not throw it all out to chase the latest trends. You can't just look at what other companies are doing, try and mimic it and expect to hit gold, it doesn't work like that. They created an identity with PSO, it was sci-fi based looter dungeon crawler, and it did it well. They threw almost their entire identity out with NGS, it was completely unnecessary. The thing is, they didn't even do it well, they threw all of it out for the most generic, plain and frankly boring identity and content imaginable. That is the biggest issue at the end of all of this, not that it doesn't play like a PSO game, it just isn't very good.
Also, what makes you think the future of PSO is riding on the success of NGS? PSU really struggled to gain traction in it's 6 years of life, but Sega didn't just ditch the series, they followed it up with their most popular game in the series to date. Even if NGS fails on the global side, that won't put them off chasing that global audience with the next game, because they can't afford to. Limiting themselves to Japan only is not financially viable anymore, they must branch out or they will get left behind. Sega have publically stated that their goal going forward is to attract a global audience, especially from the west. This is where the money is in gaming, they can't afford to ignore it.
You can do so much more combos and change ur skills in Pso2 ngs don’t have that that’s what’s killing it combat in ngs is repetitive
@@iTruHollow yeah i feel that too! after trying Gu in NGS and Gu on PSO2, Chaining different PAs on PSO2 either same PA but while moving and stationary,Charge or uncharged or even other PAs can change the playstyle
on NGS we only has 1 Gu Rotation with Charge Bullet Rave to open chain trigger,spam bulet rave to 100+ chains,if hail of bullet ready use it instead of bullet rave,use infinite richochet as filler if weak point then pop the chain with charged point blank, and then do it all over again(yeah i know theres other combo to deal more damage after charged point blank,but its still felt disconnected from the motion)
If you were comparing PSO and PSO2, I can understand. Comparing it to NGS is a bit off. To begin with, "not in NGS" is not a valid point. It's like saying "why not put all Pokemon in a single game". They *designed* it to be that way, and whether that design is generous or not it's up to them.
I said this before to some people, Sega did something so amazing that no one would ever thought of what they did simply because of "why do you even want to do that?". They managed to put in a different, fully made game in an existing game. So what I'm saying is, NGS is a game that's put into PSO2, meaning that it's *NOT* the same game. And to make it worse, they're making NGS from scratch, which have nothing even to this day. Trash drops is an invalid complaint because that's just how it is since PSO2. It's a matter of perspective. Heck someone actually did grind the Gold Prim 2 to +70 and it looked pretty usable for level 50. Even those level 1 weapons can be even stronger on +70. And the devs seem to be cautious in releasing new weapons, so trash drops is just a natural thing at the moment. Even if the drop pool have 100 items with 80 rare items, the chances for those 80 items are just terrible so you'd only see the 20.
When you said "depth", I thought of it as the general definition of "the number of choices available at any given moment". So when you said they "lose every ounce of depth", I don't think they did. Not on FF7R or NGS. They simply have a different approach of depth. The "brain dead gameplay" you did is like a "depth that you made for yourself", because it's like how people go for those META stuff or builds, they basically closed down any existing depth the game have to offer and chose to simplify the game even further. The gameplay you showed on PSO was pretty much that, you 'chose' to switch weapons and use different things and attack on different angles. Something that you can also do in NGS.
NGS seem to be built around simplifying the base formula of PSO2, that's why it's easy to go "brain dead gameplay". No need to worry about JA, no need to worry about whether to use monomate or dimate when you're dying, no complicated materials like digrinder or trigrinders and made it all into a single grinder, etc. The game is way more simplified, but it's not like the depth is gone. When you use wand for example, you can build up the gauge for the weapon action burst or the compound tech and then either use it on the crowd or save it for bosses. Or maybe expand it even more with the multi weapon. The choices are there. They just designed it in a way that we don't get to do a bunch of those choices.
If you're confused whether I'm trying to defend or join in the complaining, I'm more into both. There are things that's enjoyable in the game, as well as some stupid, silly decisions made into the game.
i play on this sever we should play some time ^^
Eshy are you comparing a arcaic clunky combat system inspired by diablo with an action game combat inspired by modern action games like dmc? This is riidicolous
A lot of PSO1 hardliners like to dunk on NGS, but let's be honest. They've been salty ever since base PSO2 left the slow, methodical, menu-driven gameplay in the past.
@@brodiapunch i mean if they like it more it's fibe. I just think proving that their opinion is the right one is the problem, especially after 20 years of QoL improvments in the span of so many games
Thanks for letting me know how bad pso2 is so I don't waste my time .
Holy Crap! Those chain combos are Freaking Fire! Damn you'd even give DMC Dante a run for his money. Keep up them sick S rank chain combos!
Seriously, Despite of learning something new and eager to try out once the servers are open the video have me a tad bit confused to be honest, I do wish Devil May Cry's director worked on NGS's combat coding instead, there were abilities that cause mobs to be airborne however barely effective on most of them; which is a huge missed opportunity.
Could honestly never understand the Mindset of most Westerners today.
I sure I do rant about some problems in NGS especially the gotcha-like systems, however, PSO2 NGS seems to triggers Western Psychosis.
I need to let go of my hatred and distrust of Westerners but seems easier said than done...
Funniest thing was; you went from a well modest, dressed, and effective fighting body proportions woman... To a pure 2023 onlyfans, tik-thot, milky mammas, thicc butt, shag bag lol.
No offense, just having a laugh lol...
But yeah its night and day... I've played PSO religiously since Gamecube more or less... Even private servers; ultima and destiny and wayyyyy back in the day but gave it up around 2017/18... Then PSO2 happened.
NGS is what happens, when you focus on 'phansion' and not 'function'...
lmao, I couldn't help myself. But you're right the fashion has gone so far that the game has suffered and will continue to do so until the servers are shut down.
It's just more waifu bait. Where creating or buying the best waifu is now the game instead of making an actual game. I'm so over waifu bait games.
@@hermityt1663lmao this is why I normally play as male characters in games so I dont get pulled into that degen sh*t.
@@spikytoaster Same.
I dont really like PSO 1's combat but NGS is 100% style over substance. PSO1 is at least methodical, you're right.
I am so bored with every melee class because its just spamming one of your 87 spinny moves, spam your big hitter, spam your fuckoff broken AOE cooldowns. None of the enemies and most bosses pose any kind of threat except Gigantix which are only "hard" because they one shot you and take like 4 hours to kill.
They have a big stupid open world because tired trend chasing and do nothing to vary environments to make fights interesting. Every enemy engagement is on hazardless flat ground while *you* can moon jump and use ridiculously potent evasion moves. Enemies take ages to just throw out their wildly telegraphed and slow attacks. They don't do any meaningful keepaway or gap closing. I think I've dealt with status effects like 8 times. It's a fucking joke. No wonder theres no build depth and variety.
Vanilla PSO2 was a fine inbetween and I prefer it. There is no engagement in NGS. It is exclusively shonen anime spectacle.
I like NGO its fun to me and my friends. Never played those others
Ngs should have dungeons but not tedious ones like original pso. There is a reason they moved away from that.
Sadly even doing that, they don't have any vision on innovating it.
They have already shown that dungeon/set area quests can work. Trinitas, Leciel, a lot of the Limited Time Quests.
All they'd have to do for overworld quests is first let players choose a sector in a region, then randomly pick a pre-set section of that sector to run the mission through, then decide what enemies and main boss is gonna spawn. With the Leciel and trainia based missions they could randomize a series of sections like rooms in a dungeon with Leciel being able to replicate environmental hazards and such. Add in random trials to the overworld quests and different difficulties to all of the quests and you'll have some decent content that you can just add to.
@@RaxusXeronos Cocoons and Towers should have been those dungeons. Think of them as quest counters. Each Cocoon has 3 different quests (add more later with new updates) that play like traditional PSO dungeons. They could be entrances that lead to underground caves, where you need to fight your way through 3 or 4 floors to fight a boss at the end with loot. To keep it fresh, add rare enemy spawns and randomised maps, and most important of all, keep the loot updated. Towers could have been exactly that, a tower. The tougher version of a cocoon that is a raid style quest with tough bosses on each floor. The more floors you clear, the better the loot at the end.
Most of the mechanics he showed are not interesting to me. Furthermore, most of the "traps" or room mechanics he showed were also trivial, and didn't seem to add much to the experience. You Can use any gear, or tecs as any class, just need the appropriate subclass. We all know PSE gameplay is not good, its just exp and loot pinata. Go to rank1 Geo and suddenly, NGS combat becomes much more interesting.
NGS is worse. No weapon variety, no weapons to hunt, no skill in playing NGS it’s just spamming the same things over and over. At least in PSO you switch weps for specific situations.
Section IDs was a cool feature for PSO1. Everyone gets their own unique drops based on their ID and they can trade with other people who have different IDs. Meanwhile trading in NGS is lame.
Traps were a cool feature in PSO. They become very useful in ultimate and it requires skill and spawn knowledge to use traps on mobs. Some mobs will take you out or other players if you don’t use them correctly.
Some weapons in PSO were high risk high reward and required skill to use those weapons.
End game is a lot more fun in PSO. Running around on a large open map on NGS is lame. It’s just farming the same mobs for the same weapons that everyone else has. There’s no variety it’s soulless. NGS is bad.
Also the monomate function in NGS is lame too. So you get hit and just pick them off the ground to use. They’re everywhere too. Like why is that even a thing. Should have just put them in shops in the city.