Nice! Many don't realize the power spread concepts now incorporated in the Shanahan/McVay offenses. It has not been a pure wco scheme for a while. I'm curious in what you feel about the differences in conceptual identity between shanahan and mcvay. I've always felt McVay, even with all his Bill Walsh roots, really incorporates more of the space variety of the original WC offense of Sid Gillman. The power quick hitting runs with the All-Stretch spread pass (vertical+horizontal+intermediate) game. Shanahan still seems to stick more to the horizontal spread pass+run game based on very creative timing variety along with positional variety.
I actually think a Shanahan vs McVay breakdown would be a great idea for a video. Might have to flesh that out some more. I am interested in what you consider the “power spread” concepts and a “pure West Coast Offense” to be. I would definitely consider the Power, Counter, and Dart reads I broke down here as part of a power spread, but that’s not part of their base offense. I also think that the West Coast offense has pretty well become synonymous with being a Pro Style offense in modern football. To my knowledge, the west coast was unique in the 90s because of the prevalence of passing in it, but that’s not unique anymore. Systems like Shanahan’s and McVay’s also have so much total volume that they can pretty easily morph into almost anything based on what they think will maximize their personnel. West Coast, in my opinion, primarily has unique connotations in regard to the pass game specifically, primarily with shorter, horizontally-stretching concepts.
@@Coach_DDavidson Thank you for the reply and your knowledgable comments! I have a powerspread website (net) for over a decade. Because of the professional work I was doing for sports and other things, I could never keep up consistently or organize it the way I wanted. Still there's a ton of artlicles and ideas thrown around and collected + powerspread podcast and youtube where I breakdown film as well. Not the high level of production you are doing. At this point my associates and friends are trying to steer me away from internet content and towards a book as I have a ton of research on the schematic history of the game - even before Walter Camp! That's my baby. As always - Time. Enough about me - let me get to your question, which btw, in over a decade - you are the first person to actually ask what i actually mean by these terms. Over 10 yrs!! Incredible, but a serious inditement on the age we are currently in - fast - knowing shit - but really dont know shit. A glossary of my terminology is something I wanted to put together for yrs! For ex RTO - amazing know one uses that - that is exactly whats happening when the QB has the option to give - keep - or pass...
@@Coach_DDavidson I don't have room here to answer all of this. Power Spread came to me back in 2008-9. What they were calling "spread" has been around since 1920s with Rusty Russell in TX. Option Football (1940s) evolved and smacked together with Spread football (Rusty>DMeyer>Tiger>Flexbone.RRod/MMatsakis) creating Power Spread. Since that time I have developed a Cultural Identity to PS that covers the history of the game and where it's heading. Simply put - PS in terms of Space/Time. Use of Timing and Playclock. Use of all the Space. Sid Gillman (FSchmidt who coached with DMeyer - its all connected) really expanded football minds. There are 3 shoots of the Tiger R&S - the Neumeir line had some of the pro style elements and combined with Gillman proteges became the Pro Spread that eventually combined with another Gillman protege Bill Walsh to become this WCO of the Modern Pro Game. In the meantime pure PS concepts exploded into three styles UMeyer/GMalzahn/ABriles - really from Talent Based (athletes in space) to Timing to Space. Briles a mastermind like no one before Gillman in the use of Space. Or at least the extremes of it. So thanks to the Shanahans (Mora before that), then Harbaugh, Shula - these guys opened up to the new mobile QB (the most obvious sign of PS) in the NFL. Andy Reid cemented the two systems - Pro PS... and it's taken off from there. Pro = more condensed sets(spread after snap as opposed to pre-snap) - under center - no option but based more on Timing Execution. Option is execution and Timing as well but all about reads. I could go on - but I you know all this so more efficient to ask questions I'd think. Pro & PS is now everywhere, which I predicted back when I started - and in 2019 as I called for the Age of Flexibility to begin (20s) - before that it was just Aggressive Variety without the middle Flex. Now it's all about the Base - Pro or PS - thus PS Pro or Pro PS.. I have other ways to describe as well as experimentation and evolution is happening rapidly. Multiple - Full --- What McDaniels and Slowik are doing is fantastic! I have some recent vids on all of that. Everything in your reply is spot on. Space - how you attack it - Time/Timing - how you manage it. How you combine the two. Again - Pro and PS. This leads to overall Culture of Team and Organization - who other ball of wax. Talent Technique Scheme (or Space Time Team) So all ways match personnel. Take the best attitudes+talent (college talent huge obviously) and the PS system morphs but never goes away. You opened a can of worms my friend, but thank you for the questions...🙂
I've always liked mobile QBs and am a bit obsessed in the older Madden games with create a play. I don't have a starting QB and instead do QB by committee because I never hand the ball off and only do runs with a QB. Typically though I don't even use a QB and have an HB with an acceptable enough throw stat like Ron Dayne back in the day. I like to use QB under center and run QB sneak most of the time so I like a bigger stronger guy there. I have no backs and a spread formation so the defender has as few men in the middle as possible. The only 3 great players on this offense are the center and 2 guards and the rest can be cheap. If the middle is stacked then I use a fast guy like my kick returner or a CB I sub into offense sometime to get to the outside in space and I only throw it to them unless they are completely wide open so I can lob it to them. I hammer the ball down the field with the sneaks and don't necessarily need to throw because I always have the best punter and special teams and my defense is about 75% team salary.
18-19 is Outside Zone, so 8-9 would be the WR blocking rules on 18 (OZ LT) and 19 (OZ RT). In most cases for the Shanahan/McVay tree, that’s going to have the WR blocking the safety to their side in MFO structures and the CB in MFC structures.
Nice! Many don't realize the power spread concepts now incorporated in the Shanahan/McVay offenses. It has not been a pure wco scheme for a while.
I'm curious in what you feel about the differences in conceptual identity between shanahan and mcvay. I've always felt McVay, even with all his Bill Walsh roots, really incorporates more of the space variety of the original WC offense of Sid Gillman. The power quick hitting runs with the All-Stretch spread pass (vertical+horizontal+intermediate) game. Shanahan still seems to stick more to the horizontal spread pass+run game based on very creative timing variety along with positional variety.
I actually think a Shanahan vs McVay breakdown would be a great idea for a video. Might have to flesh that out some more.
I am interested in what you consider the “power spread” concepts and a “pure West Coast Offense” to be. I would definitely consider the Power, Counter, and Dart reads I broke down here as part of a power spread, but that’s not part of their base offense. I also think that the West Coast offense has pretty well become synonymous with being a Pro Style offense in modern football. To my knowledge, the west coast was unique in the 90s because of the prevalence of passing in it, but that’s not unique anymore. Systems like Shanahan’s and McVay’s also have so much total volume that they can pretty easily morph into almost anything based on what they think will maximize their personnel. West Coast, in my opinion, primarily has unique connotations in regard to the pass game specifically, primarily with shorter, horizontally-stretching concepts.
@@Coach_DDavidson Thank you for the reply and your knowledgable comments! I have a powerspread website (net) for over a decade. Because of the professional work I was doing for sports and other things, I could never keep up consistently or organize it the way I wanted. Still there's a ton of artlicles and ideas thrown around and collected + powerspread podcast and youtube where I breakdown film as well. Not the high level of production you are doing.
At this point my associates and friends are trying to steer me away from internet content and towards a book as I have a ton of research on the schematic history of the game - even before Walter Camp! That's my baby. As always - Time.
Enough about me - let me get to your question, which btw, in over a decade - you are the first person to actually ask what i actually mean by these terms. Over 10 yrs!! Incredible, but a serious inditement on the age we are currently in - fast - knowing shit - but really dont know shit. A glossary of my terminology is something I wanted to put together for yrs! For ex RTO - amazing know one uses that - that is exactly whats happening when the QB has the option to give - keep - or pass...
@@Coach_DDavidson I don't have room here to answer all of this. Power Spread came to me back in 2008-9. What they were calling "spread" has been around since 1920s with Rusty Russell in TX. Option Football (1940s) evolved and smacked together with Spread football (Rusty>DMeyer>Tiger>Flexbone.RRod/MMatsakis)
creating Power Spread. Since that time I have developed a Cultural Identity to PS that covers the history of the game and where it's heading.
Simply put - PS in terms of Space/Time. Use of Timing and Playclock. Use of all the Space. Sid Gillman (FSchmidt who coached with DMeyer - its all connected) really expanded football minds.
There are 3 shoots of the Tiger R&S - the Neumeir line had some of the pro style elements and combined with Gillman proteges became the Pro Spread that eventually combined with another Gillman protege Bill Walsh to become this WCO of the Modern Pro Game.
In the meantime pure PS concepts exploded into three styles UMeyer/GMalzahn/ABriles - really from Talent Based (athletes in space) to Timing to Space. Briles a mastermind like no one before Gillman in the use of Space. Or at least the extremes of it.
So thanks to the Shanahans (Mora before that), then Harbaugh, Shula - these guys opened up to the new mobile QB (the most obvious sign of PS) in the NFL. Andy Reid cemented the two systems - Pro PS... and it's taken off from there.
Pro = more condensed sets(spread after snap as opposed to pre-snap) - under center - no option but based more on Timing Execution. Option is execution and Timing as well but all about reads.
I could go on - but I you know all this so more efficient to ask questions I'd think.
Pro & PS is now everywhere, which I predicted back when I started - and in 2019 as I called for the Age of Flexibility to begin (20s) - before that it was just Aggressive Variety without the middle Flex. Now it's all about the Base - Pro or PS - thus PS Pro or Pro PS.. I have other ways to describe as well as experimentation and evolution is happening rapidly. Multiple - Full --- What McDaniels and Slowik are doing is fantastic! I have some recent vids on all of that.
Everything in your reply is spot on. Space - how you attack it - Time/Timing - how you manage it. How you combine the two. Again - Pro and PS. This leads to overall Culture of Team and Organization - who other ball of wax.
Talent Technique Scheme (or Space Time Team) So all ways match personnel. Take the best attitudes+talent (college talent huge obviously) and the PS system morphs but never goes away.
You opened a can of worms my friend, but thank you for the questions...🙂
Great breakdown as always!
Thank you!
I've always liked mobile QBs and am a bit obsessed in the older Madden games with create a play. I don't have a starting QB and instead do QB by committee because I never hand the ball off and only do runs with a QB. Typically though I don't even use a QB and have an HB with an acceptable enough throw stat like Ron Dayne back in the day. I like to use QB under center and run QB sneak most of the time so I like a bigger stronger guy there. I have no backs and a spread formation so the defender has as few men in the middle as possible. The only 3 great players on this offense are the center and 2 guards and the rest can be cheap. If the middle is stacked then I use a fast guy like my kick returner or a CB I sub into offense sometime to get to the outside in space and I only throw it to them unless they are completely wide open so I can lob it to them. I hammer the ball down the field with the sneaks and don't necessarily need to throw because I always have the best punter and special teams and my defense is about 75% team salary.
Can you explain what are 8-9 rules for a WR? Thanks
18-19 is Outside Zone, so 8-9 would be the WR blocking rules on 18 (OZ LT) and 19 (OZ RT). In most cases for the Shanahan/McVay tree, that’s going to have the WR blocking the safety to their side in MFO structures and the CB in MFC structures.