They killed the Icon - The Day they ,GM decided to chase more profit and close a highly Skilled factory and move Overseas . THE LAST MADE COMMODORES WILL GO UP IN VALUE ESPECIALY THE V8 UTES .
Jorg Schroeder i just seen that on the market...seems everyone is wanting the 6s because they are cheaper, its easier and cheaper to swap in a 8 then it is to look after an old one. Sad but its true.
You obviously haven't driven one. The ZB VXR is an amazing car, whilst the Kia is just an engine. I've had many HSV's and currently have a 500hp Grange, but my VXR would thrash your SSV Red Line around a race track. Brembo brakes, AWD, 325hp 9 speed box and unbelievable handling. ZB VXR does 0-100 in 5.4 secs...it has an onboard timer, with competitive mode etc. Massaging heated and cooling seats etc. Its just a great car.
@@bryanhood8077 The Insignia is a great car, no doubt about that. But the model name Commodore is totally the wrong name because who on earth would a die hard Commodore fan would like to buy a Front Wheel Drive ZB? Kia Stinger is the closest match to Commodore fans simply because it's REAR WHEEL DRIVE!
@John Smith It looks like they will - and it will kill. It took Lexus a long time to overcome the grill ornament snobbery that greets a new high level car... But Toyota recognised this stuck with it. If Kia do the same, they will surely reap the rewards. It's a absolute rocket, with a panoramic roof, Harmon-Kardon sound... and we are talking about a first generation model here, with no recalls or rattles. It can only better... and meaner.
Opel/Vauxhall Insignias are great cars but slapping a Commodore name it is totally a bad recipe. If I am a die hard Commodore fan, I would switch to a Kia Stinger IMMEDIATELY!
@@jamestorrens645 The Opel Commodore you've mentioned was rear wheel drive and was rebadged as Holden Commodore. The "new" ZB Holden Commodore was rebadged from Opel/Vauxhall Insignia which was a replacement of Opel/Vauxhall Vectra in Europe and UK respectively. The ZB is not a true Commodore, it's a true Vectra replacement!
charlie webster car advice is paid to make the ZB look good and for people to buy. If they compare it to the Vf it will show everyone how shit the new one is
No need to, simply watch our last comparison where we did the same tests. ZB was better in each test except straight line. ua-cam.com/video/7SzjTtCnJy8/v-deo.html
Dear politicians. You destroyed our car industry with an over regulation assault and bias to removing tariffs from countries with strong protectionism. You tried to help other countries to manufacture at the expense of Australian jobs. Please reverse this damage and help our manufacturers to gain a foot hold again. Ooh and by the way. You will need to set up a car company again because you broke the last ones.
@@Hapkido82AUS You are wrong on so many levels. When auto makers are run by accountants they fail. While Holden had an innovator at the helm they expanded the model range and prospered. We need a level playing field with imports . Australian manufacture and design can be as good as German. Get accountants and politics out of the car industry establish a proper free trade zone with mega factories, refineries and smelters. Then Australia would double the GDP.
careful there tiger , my wife had a Ford Focus RS company car ,almost all have had gearboxes replaced , and monumental oil leaks from engine , they now have VW Golfs .
It might not be a problem. Some transmissions will lock out or go into a limp mode when they reach excessive temperatures, and some transmissions are less capable of being trashed than others.
I feel like that commodore only won anything because it's the awd version with michellin pilot sport 4s tires. In the US the stinger comes stock with those tires, and can be awd as well. Pretty sure that would at the very least even out the result discrepancy.
A few years on, the Holden is 30k second hand and the stingers are still above 45k, says a lot. For any of the test to be fair, they should both be on the same tires, put the kia on pilot sport 4s I'll eat my shorts if it can't match the Holden. Also, I had no idea the stinger wasn't AWD in AU
Been looking forward to this one - very well done. While I'm a big stinger fan, I can see the commodore still selling more as a lot of 50 and 60 somethings won't even go to the Kia dealer sadly.
I mean the kind that would typically buy a new mid-spec Commodore or Falcon. I can see them waltzing into Holden and driving away in this. But then again as per the video, if you don't care about performance, the Holden may well be the better vehicle here.
I have a 2017 VF2 SSV Redline. Love it. Would I buy a Stinger? Yep, I think its great, but not at the expense of the Redline. Would I buy the new VXR commodore? I can't express with words how big a NO I want to convey. For a family car, with performance, I'd seriously be looking elsewhere.
I must have watched a different video... Commodore seemed much better, less "cheap", than the Stinger. 0-100 is just one test. Commodore beat it everywhere else, including build quality.
The Commodore in fact as most people know is an Opel therefore it is designed for extensive European motorway driving. So not really surprising that it hesitated in rough driving circumstances.
I'd REALLY like to see one done up and fitted with all that is needed for One: Police Pursuit, AND, Two: V8 Super Cars???? Leave it as a Six with twin turbo, as the Holden TT Twin Turbo'd Commodore. ???? Would be a really great shoot out with both I'm sure.
To me even though that the VXR is not as efficient in horsepower and other means on what that the stinger has got. But the commodore is more of a safety vehicle, remember these cars use our public roads,many our public roads are not a race circuit. And there are reasons on why that the commodore with its gearbox and other things perform the way it does, as it's designed for safety. As high can see that the commodore had handled so much better than the stinger, and with its added extra safety features I would go the commodore any day of the week over the stinger. It's not about performance in my eyes, it's about being safer in a more durable vehicle, and to me the commodore is not a disgrace to the Australian public, as it has made inroads in other areas over some of its predessors of other makes and models. As there is always a reason on why that the commodore has not got the performance on what that it should have. But to me I prefer a much safer vehicle for what that you pay for than just looking at a vehicle that goes a lot faster and quicker. But once again I would not go past the new ZB Holden commodore, it's just brilliant German engineering. For a family vehicle for safety between the two, I would have to pick the new ZB Holden commodore because I would feel so much safer in the ZB Holden commodore than the Kia Stinger, because the tests goes to show you that the VXR commodore is a lot more safer on our Australian roads than the Kia stinger.
The last German made Commodore was very well built however it suffered from a lack of power and also a narrow cabin compared to the Australian made Commodore (Chevy SS) that it replaced. The replacement German made Commodore was losing sales to the cheaper Astra and people were even commenting that the new Astra was a better car. See even though the Australian made Commodore (Chevy SS) was updated over the years, its design concept successfully blended proven motor/chassis/suspension and steering engineering suitable for long distance driving over rough roads with state of the art safety and parking technology never seen before in a mass produced car. This safety and parking technology was not included in the replacement German made Commodore. GMH also underestimated the patriotism of the Australian public and realized after severe financial losses that their forward planning team failed to increase market share, which nearly lead to the collapse of GMH in the Australian market.
Are you joking this is not a commodore this is re badge Opel & Vauxhaull insignia please leave it Holden is dead. Stinger is the only choice. however what a surprise from KIA i was never taught any KIA behave like that but i do now.
You do know that the VB Holden Commodores were essentially rebadged Opels, right? And the first "Australian" commodore didn't come out until 2006. So pretty much all Commodores are rebadged opels with some local tweaking.
The new Commodore is literally an Opel Insignia with a Holden badge and i'm not fooled or sold by it. I really don't understand why GM Holden decided to import Opel Insignia's and nameplate them as Hold Commodores, even though it has nothing in common or related to the previous Commodore models, this was a really dumb marketing move for an already dead Australian motoring icon.
nes suno I agree that Holden should've kept the Insignia just like its predecessor, Vectra. The Insignia itself is good in its own rights but putting the Australian icon model name Commodore into a car that is prone to such understeer gotta be a huge insult to Commodore fans.
After taking a shot at people who pointed out the lack of performance of the new top-spec Commodore in another video, in this one Caradvice points out the lack of performance of the new top-spec Commodore. The irony is hilarious. Jokes aside, I actually quite like the new ZB. It looks nice, is well equipped, more efficient than the car it replaces, and AWD. I would seriously consider buying one, but other than being unsure about resale and the like (a lot hangs on how well it's accepted), it just isn't quick enough, and based on this review, it also disagrees with enthusiastic driving. Personally, as it stands, it looks like a bit of a missed opportunity - I'm actually in the market right now, and I'm disappointed. I wasn't looking for the ZB to be a VF copy, I was instead hoping for the VXR to be a modern, sophisticated take on the performance car. The comment at the end suggesting that the Calais would be a better bet is on the money in my eyes. All the good things about the new car (and there are lots), but without the expectation of performance. It's just a shame that there's no real performance option anymore, and for me, that's a deal breaker.
sothere1 it does in engines with "too much" compression for 91, which is basically every engine these days. The FG Falcon power & torque output increases by 7-8% when on the good stuff. Even my totally stock 99 Toyota Echo is smoother and slightly less gutless on 98
Stinger looks fantastic. But when you put it against the Commodore, the Commodore kinda looks a bit sharper. I would buy Stinger for a replacement of the old VB commodore. But when it comes to features and still some V6 engine capability, I would go commodore
I know Holden want to compare it to the Stinger. But they really should be comparing it to the Subaru Liberty 3.6R. Spec for spec could have half a chance.
No one wants this Commodore and it has been reflected in there sales figures. Free kick to Kia. AWD, Brembo brakes and an SV6 engine🤔 Turbo charge the thing Holden if you are going to charge SSV REDLINE money.
It's simply fitted with the slightly more pumped up LFX engine that was in other Chevy vehicles (SV6 was 210kw) and better brake and suspension pack than the SV6. Not worth the price IMO.
European have had twin turbo version from memory not sure on this latest model. What GM should have done is continue making VF and shoehorn their twin turbo V6 engine making 346kw and this comes from Ford fan. Holden name should have been buried like Ford did with Falcon. Selling a car under performance banner that does 6.2 and can't be driven by enthusiast because gearbox is shit is just an embarrassment to every Holden owner
DIgitusSmartas I agree 100%. I have had 2 Ford XR6 Turbos. I loved them but they were very unreliable. I found the commodores to be very good. Holden would have sold more of these cars if it wasn't branded as a commodore.
If they used the engine in the commodore RS and tuned it for performance they would have ended with a quite decent performance package, what were they thinking when they used that agriculture v6 unit
Don't think any rebadged GM subsidiary is going to replace an Aussie icon as it's not really a commodore is it? 1: mid size, 2: awd, 3: 1 one engine option, 4: looks like a generic opel/audi. Basically not even close. Recon this model wont last long before the turbo option comes in. Really needs the V8 to interest Oz buyers.
Amazing how many people think the Holden Commodore was always as Australian as a kangaroo. The original Commodore was a 1967 Opel. What Australia started building in '78 was a rebadged Opel, with changes made over the years to what was essentially still an Opel. Maybe when the first real Australian Commodore came out with the VE in 2006, they should have renamed it something Australian (like they did with the Torana and Camira).
This Commodore is just a insignia vxr in a different wrapper and a different badge we have had the insignia vxr in the UK for a while now problems with the engine due to timing chains wearing very quickly and timing chain tensioners failing and gearbox and clutch problems
If they'd just taken the Insignia VXR, it'd actually be better - the 2.8L turbo was a better engine IMHO, and they pulled the styling back on the VXR here - the VXR styling should be on the Calais, and the VXR should be more overtly sporty.
thanks for a great review guys! I am guessing this is just the start of the disappointment that will come with the new so-called new Commodore? Still a great review though...!
Always had a bias towards Kia particularly their quality, but after being in the 2019 Stinger GT, i was totally blown away. Everything just seemed to work. My 3 minor complaints Include - not enough head room in the front, The rear view mirror doesn't adjust high enough to utilise what little vision you can get, and the rear seems a little light when burying the throttle. Quite enough, picks up well, sounded okay, blown away by the fuel economy, cracker of a sound system, and packed with features. However, I had an RS commodore as a rental for a week some time back and I was dissapointed by how uncomfortable the seats were on long journeys - that in itself is a huge dissapointment for any commodore. I'll admit though that it's AWD system was very good. The stinger would be perfect (to me) if it had an AWD system like the commodore.
The RS is much lower in thr range compared to a Stinger GT not really comparing apples with apples. The RSV, Calais and VXR have much better seats than the RS.
@@tren705 Can confirm the higher spec were still nothing compared to the stinger. We crossed shopped the Calais, and the Toyota Camry SL against an Areton liftback for my partner. This from memory would have been not long after I posted this. We ended up with the Areton. Which has since come and gone too.
Factory is around 12psi. You can see our car on the dyno here: www.caradvice.com.au/598484/2018-kia-stinger-si-v6-on-the-dyno-surprised-with-the-numbers/
Holden looks too much like the Buick Regal here in America to consider it a Sporty car. Stinger was the one I was looking at prior to our 2017 Optima SXL purchase...Saved a bunch of $ and love our new car!
I'm 45, aussie, and have always been a JDM fan . My first car was a manual twin turbo Toyota Soarer. I used to get paid out like nothing else by the ford and holden crew with the old only juice n milk come in 2Litres. I thought I was gunna be happy to see the smiles wiped off their faces when Holden and Ford announced their current crap line up. But now it's happened I just feel really bad for you guys. This must suck ass. Does anyone know what will happen to the V8 supercars now . Maybe this is our chance to get Bathurst back as true race between all the makers as it used to be . It was so sad, when after not being able to beat the Nissan GTR they took their bat and ball went home crying and made it Ford Holden only. Bring Back Bathurst!!! For all
This thing is such a disgrace to the Commodore name. They should have just called this thing the Holden Insignia like they do with the Opel and Vauxhall variants and let the Commodore die a satisfying death, as a true-to-form V8 RWD sedan.
CarAdvice.com But Opel Omega (VT Commodore) was rear wheel drive which was at least, a true fitting requirement to a true Commodore name. The Insignia which replaced the Vectra, show significant understeer and you call that a Commodore?
On a bright side, the Insignia is a good car BUT in its own rights! Not as a Commodore as we knew. That's why I agree that car should be call Holden Insignia and ditch the Commodore name!
Except for the ZB Gearbox, WTF was that, i believe it would be as soon as a certain amount of extra torque is measured in various wheels its telling the Gear box to shut down maybe, who knows till Holden and Germany figure it out ? Like the old version of Traction control when you foot was kicked off the accelerator in the holdens ?
By the way that’s not commodore that’s not the shape commodore deserves , Commodore is a performance sports car and the new shape just killed it by looking it like a Honda Civic.
Over the long term, think 100k km+, I wonder which car will a) be more reliable, and b) be more cost effective at keeping it on the road. I would say that the Kia would win on both points. This is based on previous Opel iterations sold as Holdens.
arokh72 Don't know about that. If kept long term that turbo replacement at 90 -100K miles would be a stinger. I usually keep my cars long term and the turbo is a deal breaker regardless of the performance gains. I would give up the 1 second 0-60 difference just to not have a turbo. And I have owned a few turbo cars with the same result.
There’s not a great deal of point doing that comparison. You can watch the last comparison we did with SS-V Redline and Stinger Si to compare results. All the tests were the same: ua-cam.com/video/7SzjTtCnJy8/v-deo.html
I think the Stinger should take on the BMW M140i, both batch backs, both turbocharged 6 cylinders, one is larger (may have larger cargo) the other is a touch quicker, similarly priced, I think they're actually competitors. Would be great if Kia but all this good stuff into a smaller car, that would be amazing.
CarAdvice.com that's a shame.i think the handling may have been different with a rear biased AWD system vs the Holden's front bias. And I see you don't get the Sorento V6 in AWD either. We're getting the diesel in Canada later this year but I still think I prefer the petrol engines.
Australian made or assembled? Holden has only been assembling cars since the Opel VB Commodore came out. The only difference with the new commodore is that they have done away with rwd and the v8. They always sold more 6's than 8's anyway.
@@0zAdzy you dont know what youre talking about. The zb is assembled in germany, no such thing as an opal vb commodore, the vb was based on an opal. The ve and vf were designed here. The other key difference is the gearbox, no manual, no rwd, no decent power plant, the commodore is no longer a drivers car, just an eco box to take homosexuals to get coffees.
@@calumkylee blame the sjws at holden pushing for gay marriage and trying to piss off their customer base because they are upset about people enjoying rwd v8s. Get woke go broke
You Holden fans are special really, its finally a Holden commodore id actually buy considering the old vf were ugly heavy and pushrod. its either this or nothing so suck it up
AWD notwithstanding the Insignia is primarily a FWD medium car platform not unlike the Camry, Mazda 6 and the Optima and comparing it to a RWD sporty sedan is really trying to show it as something it isn't. Much as I would love to see a locally derived RWD muscle car platform it just isn't going to happen any more though the potential importing of the Camero by HSV is going to be interesting. True, the Stinger is available in an AWD version overseas but sadly the chances of seeing that on Australian roads are next to zero at this stage. Regardless of whether we like it or not the Australian market is a drop in the bucket globally so anything beyond the odd bit of tweaking for local conditions is unlikely to eventuate.
And considering it is an AWD, lighter and has dedicated sports rubber on it those figures aren't exactly surprising. Once again you are comparing apples to oranges. If you were to compare the FWD Insignia with the Stinger I would suggest it wouldn't come close. I would be curious to see both vehicles on a racetrack where the overall performance can be judged. If Holden are going to be marketing this as a sports car then they really should address the patterning of the gearbox or alternatively release a manual option.
The Holden's i grown up and loved are RWD powerful great looking sports cars not AWD. What was Holden thinking? Its like the new commodore is copying Audi. Even Audi is better looking and more powerful than this.
How is this supposed to be a replacement model for the old SS if it's slower (by a quite margin)? I thought the whole point of a new hi-po car is that it's supposed to be faster than model it replaced. If it's just a boring A to B shopping cart like a camry then I could see a point...
If your making a comparison, how about making it equal. Your using an all wheel drive car against a two wheel drive car. The Stinger comes in all wheel drive as well. Do a fair equal comparison. The Commodore should pull more on an autocross track in all wheel drive.
I swear Cars lose their balls when tested in Australia 0-100 times In America vs Australia are Vastly different. That and Australian muscle cars (I’m gonna offend some people here) Aren’t set up that great It’s either simply a Sea Level thing or.. I don’t know Less powerful cars on the same platform and or the same car run quicker times in the U.S and U.K then they do here in Aus. I’ve seen plenty that have ran 5.5 to 100 here run 4.4-4.6 in the states
Different emissions standards (e36 m3 us vs euro is a good example of the end result), mph vs kph, different humidity and different air density.. take your pick
So its a performance car that can't be driven like a performance car due to the gearbox. Well done Holden you have killed an icon!
They killed the Icon - The Day they ,GM decided to chase more profit and close a highly Skilled factory and move Overseas . THE LAST MADE COMMODORES WILL GO UP IN VALUE ESPECIALY THE V8 UTES .
Jorg Schroeder I couldn’t agree more!
It's a shit mobile
Jorg Schroeder i just seen that on the market...seems everyone is wanting the 6s because they are cheaper, its easier and cheaper to swap in a 8 then it is to look after an old one. Sad but its true.
You know that’s a Very easy fix right ? Sure it’s not a free fix but it won’t involve much more than sticking something in the obd2 port lol
The new Commodore is helping Kia sell a lot more stingers
Because the KIA Stinger is bloody good car!
Techyescity have got himself a Stinger!
I see way more opel commodores than stingers
@@mervynstent1578 all new cars are OK. Most new cars look crap though and the stinger is no exception
I have the last real commodore a VFSS redline.... would pick the STinger all day over the new model!
hybridshift I have a vz ss commo
hybridshift me too mate 👍
You obviously haven't driven one. The ZB VXR is an amazing car, whilst the Kia is just an engine. I've had many HSV's and currently have a 500hp Grange, but my VXR would thrash your SSV Red Line around a race track. Brembo brakes, AWD, 325hp 9 speed box and unbelievable handling. ZB VXR does 0-100 in 5.4 secs...it has an onboard timer, with competitive mode etc. Massaging heated and cooling seats etc. Its just a great car.
Bryan Hood you seem delusional
@@bryanhood8077 The Insignia is a great car, no doubt about that. But the model name Commodore is totally the wrong name because who on earth would a die hard Commodore fan would like to buy a Front Wheel Drive ZB?
Kia Stinger is the closest match to Commodore fans simply because it's REAR WHEEL DRIVE!
Wow comparing a Holden Commodore to a KIA. A sad day for Holden.
RIP HOLDEN from 🇺🇸
@J S insignia is Commodore.
All the same, like Opel, holden, buick, vauxhall
I love how Kia has come out of nowhere with a car that is now a benchmark for sports sedans in Australia.
its not .
@John Smith It looks like they will - and it will kill. It took Lexus a long time to overcome the grill ornament snobbery that greets a new high level car... But Toyota recognised this stuck with it. If Kia do the same, they will surely reap the rewards. It's a absolute rocket, with a panoramic roof, Harmon-Kardon sound... and we are talking about a first generation model here, with no recalls or rattles. It can only better... and meaner.
Opel/Vauxhall Insignias are great cars but slapping a Commodore name it is totally a bad recipe. If I am a die hard Commodore fan, I would switch to a Kia Stinger IMMEDIATELY!
@@atmark666 keep tossing yourself over the Peugeot Camira! 🖕🏿
@@jamestorrens645 The Opel Commodore you've mentioned was rear wheel drive and was rebadged as Holden Commodore. The "new" ZB Holden Commodore was rebadged from Opel/Vauxhall Insignia which was a replacement of Opel/Vauxhall Vectra in Europe and UK respectively. The ZB is not a true Commodore, it's a true Vectra replacement!
do a side by side comparison of the old and new commodore
charlie webster car advice is paid to make the ZB look good and for people to buy. If they compare it to the Vf it will show everyone how shit the new one is
That is a very good idea
No need to, simply watch our last comparison where we did the same tests. ZB was better in each test except straight line. ua-cam.com/video/7SzjTtCnJy8/v-deo.html
The knucklehead award goes to William Irwin. Congrats, champ!
lol
I think this new Holden is a step below the Holden Commodore Holden Fanatics will not buy this thing
Dear politicians. You destroyed our car industry with an over regulation assault and bias to removing tariffs from countries with strong protectionism. You tried to help other countries to manufacture at the expense of Australian jobs. Please reverse this damage and help our manufacturers to gain a foot hold again. Ooh and by the way. You will need to set up a car company again because you broke the last ones.
That’s really sad. Us 🇺🇸 think about Australia we think about Holden Commodore
RIP HOLDEN 🇺🇸
Was neither you ding dongs. middle and upper class people got sick of buying shit and the fuel prices and rego is what opted people for smaller cars,
Feminist State. Enjoy! 😜
Australians stopped buying Australian cars- end of story.
@@Hapkido82AUS You are wrong on so many levels. When auto makers are run by accountants they fail. While Holden had an innovator at the helm they expanded the model range and prospered. We need a level playing field with imports . Australian manufacture and design can be as good as German. Get accountants and politics out of the car industry establish a proper free trade zone with mega factories, refineries and smelters. Then Australia would double the GDP.
Working on the gearbox for 2 years and it’s still stuffed 😂
RIP Holden....Thank god I got the last of the SSV LS3 REAL Holden Commodores.
Transmission problems already... Typical GM product!!!
careful there tiger , my wife had a Ford Focus RS company car ,almost all have had gearboxes replaced , and monumental oil leaks from engine , they now have VW Golfs .
It might not be a problem. Some transmissions will lock out or go into a limp mode when they reach excessive temperatures, and some transmissions are less capable of being trashed than others.
commodore665 Who has a Focus RS as a company car? Is your wife a stunt car driver or something?
You mean typical Peugeot product m8.
At least you can’t blame slack Aussie workmanship anymore haha
55k for a V6 Opel. Ouch
65 plus for a kia double Ouch
Just wait for depreciation and buy used 🤷🏿♂️
Haven't seen any New Holden Commodore on the road yet..
KIA STINGER!!!
I feel like that commodore only won anything because it's the awd version with michellin pilot sport 4s tires. In the US the stinger comes stock with those tires, and can be awd as well. Pretty sure that would at the very least even out the result discrepancy.
A few years on, the Holden is 30k second hand and the stingers are still above 45k, says a lot.
For any of the test to be fair, they should both be on the same tires, put the kia on pilot sport 4s I'll eat my shorts if it can't match the Holden. Also, I had no idea the stinger wasn't AWD in AU
Stinger is the cool beast!! going to get one!
Click bait! I was expecting a Holden Commodore and you swapped in some Euro turd
there is a stinger vs vf commodore comparison. guess who wins ? STINGER
Can you read
Good luck getting Holden to fix the gearbox!
Been looking forward to this one - very well done.
While I'm a big stinger fan, I can see the commodore still selling more as a lot of 50 and 60 somethings won't even go to the Kia dealer sadly.
Shaddolf me too
I mean the kind that would typically buy a new mid-spec Commodore or Falcon. I can see them waltzing into Holden and driving away in this.
But then again as per the video, if you don't care about performance, the Holden may well be the better vehicle here.
I have a 2017 VF2 SSV Redline. Love it. Would I buy a Stinger? Yep, I think its great, but not at the expense of the Redline. Would I buy the new VXR commodore? I can't express with words how big a NO I want to convey. For a family car, with performance, I'd seriously be looking elsewhere.
I must have watched a different video... Commodore seemed much better, less "cheap", than the Stinger. 0-100 is just one test. Commodore beat it everywhere else, including build quality.
No you just live in bizarro world, oh and good luck with that re-sale on the Commodore if you buy one.
Barra the world!!
The Commodore in fact as most people know is an Opel therefore it is designed for extensive European motorway driving. So not really surprising that it hesitated in rough driving circumstances.
Haha in the wet off the lights you can't beat the AWD Commodore I know I had one.
Quite embarrassing there for Holden, would be interesting to see how the Mondeo 2.0 EcoBoost goes against the Commodore VXR
there's an even match
The top Vectra here would struggle with a stock entry level Mondeo.
You are quite correct!
I'll take that Mondeo over this ZB Commodore any day!
TechBreeze jnmii
I'd REALLY like to see one done up and fitted with all that is needed for One: Police Pursuit, AND, Two: V8 Super Cars???? Leave it as a Six with twin turbo, as the Holden TT Twin Turbo'd Commodore. ???? Would be a really great shoot out with both I'm sure.
the only good thing about the opal atm is they are NOT selling and the car yards are almost giving them away.
To me even though that the VXR is not as efficient in horsepower and other means on what that the stinger has got.
But the commodore is more of a safety vehicle, remember these cars use our public roads,many our public roads are not a race circuit.
And there are reasons on why that the commodore with its gearbox and other things perform the way it does, as it's designed for safety.
As high can see that the commodore had handled so much better than the stinger, and with its added extra safety features I would go the commodore any day of the week over the stinger.
It's not about performance in my eyes, it's about being safer in a more durable vehicle, and to me the commodore is not a disgrace to the Australian public, as it has made inroads in other areas over some of its predessors of other makes and models.
As there is always a reason on why that the commodore has not got the performance on what that it should have.
But to me I prefer a much safer vehicle for what that you pay for than just looking at a vehicle that goes a lot faster and quicker.
But once again I would not go past the new ZB Holden commodore, it's just brilliant German engineering.
For a family vehicle for safety between the two, I would have to pick the new ZB Holden commodore because I would feel so much safer in the ZB Holden commodore than the Kia Stinger, because the tests goes to show you that the VXR commodore is a lot more safer on our Australian roads than the Kia stinger.
The last German made Commodore was very well built however it suffered from a lack of power and also a narrow cabin compared to the Australian made Commodore (Chevy SS) that it replaced. The replacement German made Commodore was losing sales to the cheaper Astra and people were even commenting that the new Astra was a better car. See even though the Australian made Commodore (Chevy SS) was updated over the years, its design concept successfully blended proven motor/chassis/suspension and steering engineering suitable for long distance driving over rough roads with state of the art safety and parking technology never seen before in a mass produced car. This safety and parking technology was not included in the replacement German made Commodore. GMH also underestimated the patriotism of the Australian public and realized after severe financial losses that their forward planning team failed to increase market share, which nearly lead to the collapse of GMH in the Australian market.
Are you joking this is not a commodore this is re badge Opel & Vauxhaull insignia please leave it Holden is dead. Stinger is the only choice. however what a surprise from KIA i was never taught any KIA behave like that but i do now.
You do know that the VB Holden Commodores were essentially rebadged Opels, right? And the first "Australian" commodore didn't come out until 2006. So pretty much all Commodores are rebadged opels with some local tweaking.
The new Commodore is literally an Opel Insignia with a Holden badge and i'm not fooled or sold by it.
I really don't understand why GM Holden decided to import Opel Insignia's and nameplate them as Hold Commodores, even though it has nothing in common or related to the previous Commodore models, this was a really dumb marketing move for an already dead Australian motoring icon.
Nothing wrong with the Insignia except for the engine and transmission. But naming it into Commodore definitely IS!
nes suno I agree that Holden should've kept the Insignia just like its predecessor, Vectra. The Insignia itself is good in its own rights but putting the Australian icon model name Commodore into a car that is prone to such understeer gotta be a huge insult to Commodore fans.
Holden rebadged Opels and called them Commodores back in '78. The only difference nowadays are they're not assembled here.
they're b-school grads. They don't know anything, so they assume everyone else is as stupid as they are
After taking a shot at people who pointed out the lack of performance of the new top-spec Commodore in another video, in this one Caradvice points out the lack of performance of the new top-spec Commodore. The irony is hilarious.
Jokes aside, I actually quite like the new ZB. It looks nice, is well equipped, more efficient than the car it replaces, and AWD. I would seriously consider buying one, but other than being unsure about resale and the like (a lot hangs on how well it's accepted), it just isn't quick enough, and based on this review, it also disagrees with enthusiastic driving.
Personally, as it stands, it looks like a bit of a missed opportunity - I'm actually in the market right now, and I'm disappointed. I wasn't looking for the ZB to be a VF copy, I was instead hoping for the VXR to be a modern, sophisticated take on the performance car.
The comment at the end suggesting that the Calais would be a better bet is on the money in my eyes. All the good things about the new car (and there are lots), but without the expectation of performance. It's just a shame that there's no real performance option anymore, and for me, that's a deal breaker.
How did it work out?
I think a VF V8 would kick its ass all over the place. Sadly GM see fit to give us what they think GM buyers in Aus want. Wrong!
Another great review Paul. VXR is a disappointment.
Thanks!
Calais V is better
Vxr is the equivalent to the sv6 from Holden
It's not meant to replace the SS etc ...
Holden went for technology instead of twin supercharged V6s
Can't comment on either car as I haven't driven them. I feel that it helps to drive them to give an honest and creditable critic!
Technically a Muscle-Car
(which started in 1964)
Has Two-Doors,
A Back Seat,
& high performance package.
In real terms... Holden stopped making holdens......when the commodore was released!!! Everything before that is ..... GOLD!
Makes my 2016 VFII V6 seem better value and performance and in the last week started using BP Ultimate RON 98 and its better than ever
Im not loopy - others have confirmed it as well - more smooth and more kick - nothing else has been changed.
sothere1 it does in engines with "too much" compression for 91, which is basically every engine these days. The FG Falcon power & torque output increases by 7-8% when on the good stuff. Even my totally stock 99 Toyota Echo is smoother and slightly less gutless on 98
Don't waste your cash on 98. Pure marketing hype if your engine wasn't designed for it (the commy v6 wasn't) 20% more expensive fuel for 0 gain
I have a Mazda 2 2018 model and I run 98 and it throttle betters. I can imagine with your VF and dang the last proper Holden built before its dead
Your VF SV6 is shit. Put 91 in that's all it will ever deserve
Did you compare the turbo Commodore aswel?
Hey Caradvice are yous going to fit your Stinger with the optional sports exhaust would be interested on hearing what yous think about it.
Dont know what the fuss is about the kia stinger. My 5 grand ba turbo work ute with a tune blew the door off one the other day.
These are way too big for my needs. Still, this was a very scientific and thorough review.
Stinger looks fantastic. But when you put it against the Commodore, the Commodore kinda looks a bit sharper. I would buy Stinger for a replacement of the old VB commodore. But when it comes to features and still some V6 engine capability, I would go commodore
This is base or middle range stinger though - top of the line looks way better and has nice bremos and more features.
o ok
Would you go for a front wheel drive?
I know Holden want to compare it to the Stinger. But they really should be comparing it to the Subaru Liberty 3.6R. Spec for spec could have half a chance.
How many km can you get in sticky pilot tyres? Whats tyres come factory on the stinger? I wonder how much tyre traction is influencing this test.
Being a Koran made car...I’d say they’d come fitted with Kumho 🤮🤮🤮
Stinger comes with conti contact 5 in australia. Weird since rest of the world gets michellin supersport
Greg Mieg in the US spec we get pilot sport 4s tires from the factory so I'd assume the same. We've seen 12.6 quarter times as well.
My NZ RWD has pilot sport 4 as factory. Pretty sure they aren't 4s
I would expect the Commodore would be the most comfortable ride on a long trip.
No one wants this Commodore and it has been reflected in there sales figures. Free kick to Kia.
AWD, Brembo brakes and an SV6 engine🤔 Turbo charge the thing Holden if you are going to charge SSV REDLINE money.
couldn't agree more!!
It's simply fitted with the slightly more pumped up LFX engine that was in other Chevy vehicles (SV6 was 210kw) and better brake and suspension pack than the SV6. Not worth the price IMO.
Robert definitely not worth the price.
European have had twin turbo version from memory not sure on this latest model. What GM should have done is continue making VF and shoehorn their twin turbo V6 engine making 346kw and this comes from Ford fan. Holden name should have been buried like Ford did with Falcon. Selling a car under performance banner that does 6.2 and can't be driven by enthusiast because gearbox is shit is just an embarrassment to every Holden owner
DIgitusSmartas I agree 100%. I have had 2 Ford XR6 Turbos. I loved them but they were very unreliable. I found the commodores to be very good.
Holden would have sold more of these cars if it wasn't branded as a commodore.
If they used the engine in the commodore RS and tuned it for performance they would have ended with a quite decent performance package, what were they thinking when they used that agriculture v6 unit
Don't think any rebadged GM subsidiary is going to replace an Aussie icon as it's not really a commodore is it? 1: mid size, 2: awd, 3: 1 one engine option, 4: looks like a generic opel/audi. Basically not even close. Recon this model wont last long before the turbo option comes in. Really needs the V8 to interest Oz buyers.
I like the new Commodore which is a Euro car with a bit of Aussie flavour. However, if you want performance you need a manual.
He adores the stinger
Can't wait until we're done with the Kia vs Commodore comparisons.
The Stinger and Commodore are natural competitors - very similar size and body styles, similar pricing range. It's a natural comparison.
Amazing how many people think the Holden Commodore was always as Australian as a kangaroo. The original Commodore was a 1967 Opel. What Australia started building in '78 was a rebadged Opel, with changes made over the years to what was essentially still an Opel. Maybe when the first real Australian Commodore came out with the VE in 2006, they should have renamed it something Australian (like they did with the Torana and Camira).
This Commodore is just a insignia vxr in a different wrapper and a different badge we have had the insignia vxr in the UK for a while now problems with the engine due to timing chains wearing very quickly and timing chain tensioners failing and gearbox and clutch problems
If they'd just taken the Insignia VXR, it'd actually be better - the 2.8L turbo was a better engine IMHO, and they pulled the styling back on the VXR here - the VXR styling should be on the Calais, and the VXR should be more overtly sporty.
"working on the car locally for almost 2 years and that includes the gearbox" Must have let the 1st year apprentice sort it out then.
ZB Commodore with an LS3 and RWD would have been elite,
Still a decent car nonetheless.
agreed
thanks for a great review guys! I am guessing this is just the start of the disappointment that will come with the new so-called new Commodore? Still a great review though...!
Thanks!
Let's face it, the real question is can it do a burn out and the answer is no
Well the Stinger can't either even when u switch off stability control
LokstaV it can if you pull the rear break light fuse. 😉
The new commodore can burn out if you throw a match inside.
gb nq true true, possibly more worth while too
Short memories , for two decades Holden couldn't get through a road test without a power steering failure .
Always had a bias towards Kia particularly their quality, but after being in the 2019 Stinger GT, i was totally blown away.
Everything just seemed to work.
My 3 minor complaints Include - not enough head room in the front, The rear view mirror doesn't adjust high enough to utilise what little vision you can get, and the rear seems a little light when burying the throttle.
Quite enough, picks up well, sounded okay, blown away by the fuel economy, cracker of a sound system, and packed with features.
However, I had an RS commodore as a rental for a week some time back and I was dissapointed by how uncomfortable the seats were on long journeys - that in itself is a huge dissapointment for any commodore.
I'll admit though that it's AWD system was very good.
The stinger would be perfect (to me) if it had an AWD system like the commodore.
The RS is much lower in thr range compared to a Stinger GT not really comparing apples with apples. The RSV, Calais and VXR have much better seats than the RS.
@@tren705 Can confirm the higher spec were still nothing compared to the stinger. We crossed shopped the Calais, and the Toyota Camry SL against an Areton liftback for my partner. This from memory would have been not long after I posted this. We ended up with the Areton. Which has since come and gone too.
What boost is on the stinger?
Factory is around 12psi. You can see our car on the dyno here: www.caradvice.com.au/598484/2018-kia-stinger-si-v6-on-the-dyno-surprised-with-the-numbers/
Holden looks too much like the Buick Regal here in America to consider it a Sporty car. Stinger was the one I was looking at prior to our 2017 Optima SXL purchase...Saved a bunch of $ and love our new car!
It's basically the same car underneath. We'll probably get the Regal once the Insignia ceases production under PSA ownership of Opel.
I'm 45, aussie, and have always been a JDM fan . My first car was a manual twin turbo Toyota Soarer. I used to get paid out like nothing else by the ford and holden crew with the old only juice n milk come in 2Litres. I thought I was gunna be happy to see the smiles wiped off their faces when Holden and Ford announced their current crap line up. But now it's happened I just feel really bad for you guys. This must suck ass. Does anyone know what will happen to the V8 supercars now . Maybe this is our chance to get Bathurst back as true race between all the makers as it used to be . It was so sad, when after not being able to beat the Nissan GTR they took their bat and ball went home crying and made it Ford Holden only. Bring Back Bathurst!!! For all
This thing is such a disgrace to the Commodore name. They should have just called this thing the Holden Insignia like they do with the Opel and Vauxhall variants and let the Commodore die a satisfying death, as a true-to-form V8 RWD sedan.
You know that every Commodore prior to the VE/VF was an Opel, right?
CarAdvice.com But Opel Omega (VT Commodore) was rear wheel drive which was at least, a true fitting requirement to a true Commodore name. The Insignia which replaced the Vectra, show significant understeer and you call that a Commodore?
CarAdvice.com actually no they weren’t they were based on opels but Holden change the designs for the Aussie buyers
On a bright side, the Insignia is a good car BUT in its own rights! Not as a Commodore as we knew. That's why I agree that car should be call Holden Insignia and ditch the Commodore name!
Except for the ZB Gearbox, WTF was that, i believe it would be as soon as a certain amount of extra torque is measured in various wheels its telling the Gear box to shut down maybe, who knows till Holden and Germany figure it out ? Like the old version of Traction control when you foot was kicked off the accelerator in the holdens ?
By the way that’s not commodore that’s not the shape commodore deserves , Commodore is a performance sports car and the new shape just killed it by looking it like a Honda Civic.
I never thought I'd want a Kia but I do
Over the long term, think 100k km+, I wonder which car will a) be more reliable, and b) be more cost effective at keeping it on the road. I would say that the Kia would win on both points. This is based on previous Opel iterations sold as Holdens.
arokh72 Don't know about that. If kept long term that turbo replacement at 90 -100K miles would be a stinger. I usually keep my cars long term and the turbo is a deal breaker regardless of the performance gains. I would give up the 1 second 0-60 difference just to not have a turbo. And I have owned a few turbo cars with the same result.
Please review the NEW vs OLD Commodore
There’s not a great deal of point doing that comparison. You can watch the last comparison we did with SS-V Redline and Stinger Si to compare results. All the tests were the same: ua-cam.com/video/7SzjTtCnJy8/v-deo.html
I think the Stinger should take on the BMW M140i, both batch backs, both turbocharged 6 cylinders, one is larger (may have larger cargo) the other is a touch quicker, similarly priced, I think they're actually competitors. Would be great if Kia but all this good stuff into a smaller car, that would be amazing.
Stinger is closer to a 5-series in size. Comparing it to a 1-series wouldn't be reasonable, except maybe on price.
Thank God I found a decent bf falcon xr6!
Its about time kia (hyundai) got there act together and wake the rest of the car industry up
So this is the 2wd Stinger?
Yes. We don’t get the AWD in Oz.
CarAdvice.com that's a shame.i think the handling may have been different with a rear biased AWD system vs the Holden's front bias. And I see you don't get the Sorento V6 in AWD either. We're getting the diesel in Canada later this year but I still think I prefer the petrol engines.
Excellent review!!
Thanks!
If the commodore was running a 6.2L would it sell better? Or people just want Australian made?
Australian made or assembled? Holden has only been assembling cars since the Opel VB Commodore came out. The only difference with the new commodore is that they have done away with rwd and the v8. They always sold more 6's than 8's anyway.
Heaps better, but still missing rwd, manual gearbox, a ute body, a soul...
@@0zAdzy you dont know what youre talking about. The zb is assembled in germany, no such thing as an opal vb commodore, the vb was based on an opal. The ve and vf were designed here. The other key difference is the gearbox, no manual, no rwd, no decent power plant, the commodore is no longer a drivers car, just an eco box to take homosexuals to get coffees.
@@danread2439 And this is why people like you have killed off you're own brand.
Brings tears to my eyes to see what the Germans have done to our Aussie reputation.
it doesn't deserve the commodore badge. call it the insignia. the opel insignia
blame aussies for not buying the shitty locally made ones. non-car people want this and gm has delivered.
@@calumkylee blame the sjws at holden pushing for gay marriage and trying to piss off their customer base because they are upset about people enjoying rwd v8s. Get woke go broke
Kia stinger comes with AWD options too. should've compared with both cars being AWD
paul maric isn't the commodore beating the stinger on the steering and lateral G tests?
Yes.
uh huh, and how does it drive in 5km/h everyday city traffic?
Can they do a comparison between the stinger and the xr6t? They did do one between holden ss and the stinger
good lucky buying an opel shit box 😂
I'm sure the Opel Commodore will sell as well as the Malibu or diesel Epica.
The Epica was an epic fail...
You Holden fans are special really, its finally a Holden commodore id actually buy considering the old vf were ugly heavy and pushrod. its either this or nothing so suck it up
That dubstep tho...
To be fair if you wanted to compare apples to apples you should test the new Commodore against the Kia Optima GT.
How so?
AWD notwithstanding the Insignia is primarily a FWD medium car platform not unlike the Camry, Mazda 6 and the Optima and comparing it to a RWD sporty sedan is really trying to show it as something it isn't. Much as I would love to see a locally derived RWD muscle car platform it just isn't going to happen any more though the potential importing of the Camero by HSV is going to be interesting. True, the Stinger is available in an AWD version overseas but sadly the chances of seeing that on Australian roads are next to zero at this stage. Regardless of whether we like it or not the Australian market is a drop in the bucket globally so anything beyond the odd bit of tweaking for local conditions is unlikely to eventuate.
That fails the logic test when you consider the Commodore was quicker around the slalom (even with gearbox issues) and stopped quicker.
And considering it is an AWD, lighter and has dedicated sports rubber on it those figures aren't exactly surprising. Once again you are comparing apples to oranges. If you were to compare the FWD Insignia with the Stinger I would suggest it wouldn't come close. I would be curious to see both vehicles on a racetrack where the overall performance can be judged. If Holden are going to be marketing this as a sports car then they really should address the patterning of the gearbox or alternatively release a manual option.
Deevo037 Butthurt. 😂🤣🤪
It sucks that the Holden is AWD not RWD.
TheOnlySillySausage simple buy the kia!
Get a set of free-wheeling hubs.
The Stinger comes AWD as well... I’d take AWD off the line over the drifting experience of a RWD sports car.
CreoleRep7 the stingers only come rwd in Australia :(
The Holden's i grown up and loved are RWD powerful great looking sports cars not AWD. What was Holden thinking? Its like the new commodore is copying Audi. Even Audi is better looking and more powerful than this.
It’s a shame there is no manual transmission! Gearbox problems would be lessened if there wasn’t a computer driving the car!
I had a choice for a new car, it was the Kia or the ZB and i bought a VF2 SSV Redline Motorsport for my daily.
I'm meant to be a ford fan....
New Commodore is so lame, no personality and average in every way
Doc Dude With such understeer, it's not a Commodore.
Holden's been mostly nothing but shit since the Bombadore anyway. The marque very nearly vanished in 1986, and had been on welfare ever since.
How's that any different to the old commodore?
Nathan H At least the old one came in a V8
Was it really worth rubbing it in saying the Commodore doesn't have map pockets in the back of the seats?🤔
How is this supposed to be a replacement model for the old SS if it's slower (by a quite margin)?
I thought the whole point of a new hi-po car is that it's supposed to be faster than model it replaced.
If it's just a boring A to B shopping cart like a camry then I could see a point...
nice car stinger
Like to see apples compared to apples...Stinger does come in AWD! I understand it would've been more for you guys to purchase!
so how long before the name holden in Australia is gone
the kia wins in specs BUT the ZB commodore is outselling it. over double the sales.
If your making a comparison, how about making it equal. Your using an all wheel drive car against a two wheel drive car. The Stinger comes in all wheel drive as well. Do a fair equal comparison. The Commodore should pull more on an autocross track in all wheel drive.
I swear Cars lose their balls when tested in Australia
0-100 times In America vs Australia are Vastly different.
That and Australian muscle cars (I’m gonna offend some people here)
Aren’t set up that great
It’s either simply a Sea Level thing or.. I don’t know
Less powerful cars on the same platform and or the same car run quicker times in the U.S and U.K then they do here in Aus.
I’ve seen plenty that have ran 5.5 to 100 here run 4.4-4.6 in the states
Different emissions standards (e36 m3 us vs euro is a good example of the end result), mph vs kph, different humidity and different air density.. take your pick
Umm werent you in manual mode???