A More "Sophisticated" Historical Story? - Doctor Who: The Myth Makers (1965) - REVIEW
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- Опубліковано 17 сер 2023
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"I'm not a Doc. I am not a god. Oh, my dear Vicki, I hope you'll be all right. I shall miss you child..."
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Great review 😊
The reviews of old who are my favorite thing on your channel. Its as if they are coming out right now and I always look forward to the next! Great Job!
wow Katarina seems like such a good companion! I hope we see so much more of her in the next and subsequent stories!
I'm really looking forward to seeing her grow and evolve as a character over the next season, can't wait to see her face the Daleks! Hope she makes it out!
I love her, shame she never was given a chance
I completely forgot that she stayed so long that she became the first companion to have 3 doctors!
Katarina was a wasted opportunity. A companion who believes she is dead and exploring the afterlife is an amusing and unique character quirk. She wouldn't have needed anything explained to her, and there would have much hilarity with The Doctor trying to convince her everything she is experiencing is very real... but instead they chucked her out an airlock.
I highly recommend the big finish story "daughter of the gods" its an alternative timeline where Steven and the Doctor know her for a few months rather than literally just a day.
Realising that Hartnell was the only creative from the first serial, both in front of and behind the camera, to have been there from day 1 and that every actor he grew close with ended up leaving really makes his crotchety demeanor in his final years more understandable
It's honestly uncannily similar to what would happen with Tom Baker later, and JNT wasn't any less courteous about it than Wiles.
It’s something that was captured really well in An Adventure in Space & Time
@@BH-98 I didnt like David Bradley's portrayal of Hartnell. He made him out to be so ill that he could barely get through his lines. Watch The Smugglers recon. Its a superb performance from Hartnell in his penultimate story.
@@coldacre that’s fair, though for dramatic purposes & to serve the story their telling some events are altered slightly.
Like if they had depicted the events of the making of the smugglers accurately in AAIS&T then it would contradict & over complicate the storytelling of the film.
Sacking Vicki really seemed like a mistake. She was more likeable than Susan, and certainly more so than her various replacements. I struggle to believe that Maureen O’Brien was really that troublesome, seems a bit petty, but I don’t know, I wasn’t there. And they didn’t even give her a pet chumbley.
Maureen O Brian might have struggled at first after leaving the show but her career picked up and she enjoyed quite a respectable career.
This is one I'm absolutely *desperate* to see returned.
Same. If I could get any one story back, no questions asked, it'd probably be this one.
The joke about Agamemnon's wife cheating on him becomes very dark if you're familiar with the _Oresteia._
When I first read the plot overview of the Myth Makers, my first thought was that it was exactly the same type of parody as Terry Pratchett's Eric - Trojan War reality not as the myths make it, Odysseus just shugs "oh you're time travellers, ok then".
I remember seeing this as a 7 year old. I remember my father and I gradually working out that this was an alternative version of the myth - and this making the story more interesting. Nice analysis of the twists and turns of the Doctor’s involvement. You are right about the brutality- there was a surprising amount of violence on daytime TV at the time, if it had a mythological or historical basis
It sucks so much of Season 3 is missing! Some really unique ones like this That I wish we could see properly
I admit I didn't notice how interfering with theme was a recurring time in the Hartnell years. We'll see it continue in a darker way in "The Massacre" (also "The Ark" for a science fiction twist on the idea).
Is interfering with theme was a reoccurring time
Did you forget to take your radiation gloves
I've seen 3 other film versions of this classic story: "HELEN OF TROY" (1956) with Niall MacGinnis as "Menelaus", a real bastard who drove his wife into the arms of another man, Rosanna Podesta as Helen and Torin Thatcher as Ulysses; "LA GUERRA DI TROIA" (alias "THE TROJAN HORSE" / 1962) with John Drew Barrymore as Ulysses (and starring Steve Reeves), and THE TIME TUNNEL episode "REVENGE OF THE GODS" (1966), with John Doucette as Ulysses and Dee Hartford as Helen; the latter is by far one of the very best episodes of that series, and one of several that covers the same ground as DOCTOR WHO in its own different way.
Gotta give a shout out to Ian Potter's Black Archives monograph on "The Myth Makers". Goes deep into the scripts and presents exactly what this story would have looked like if we still had surviving video. Really wish this one survived. I suspect it would be very highly ranked if it did.
These reviews are really fantastic! I'm enjoying your insights into these stories. Over lockdown I watched every episode (including recons) from the beginning and these reviews are a great companion to anyone one else who would do the same. Thanks for your hard work.
I’m surprised there hasn’t been an animated recreation of this one yet. Well, here’s hoping it’s going to be done at some point.
The historicals tend to be a little harder to animate due to the amount of work needed to draw and animate the intricate costumes and sets, particularly with the comparatively limited budget the animations get - The Highlanders, in particular, with all of its tartan has been highlighted in particular by people who have worked on the animations - so it’s likely that, if they get animated at all, historicals will be some of the last, particularly something like Marco Polo. As a big fan of The Massacre, it’s rather a sad affair.
@@SirDanFilmsUnltdthankfully they’ve only got The Space Pirates, The Savages and The Dalek’s Master Plan to go before they’ve finally released all the more sci-fi based ones, then they got no choice but to start doing more historicals
Hartnell just went up in my Books, all that shit happend to him and he still delivers an excellent performance.
Really wasn’t expecting a Heinrich Schliemann reference but thoroughly enjoyed that joke 😂 thanks for a great review as always
What a shame this was wiped- it sounds like quite a fun historical!
My girlfriend and I just finished this story today. Paris was also our favorite character. His performance is so enjoyable.
"Let's make a more Sophisticated Story..."
5 minutes later
They wrote a comedy, but a really good...
The sound recording is excellent. Your review has made me want to revisit the story. Cheers. Come to think of it, could it not be that the story of the Trojan Horse was only assumed to be a myth and was in fact true. This would mean The Doctor was merely fulfilling History.
Reactionary Doctor Who fans: Chibnall and Whittaker are clearly fighting behind the scenes because he's such a horrible showrunner!
John WIles: Hold my beer.
I don't want to paint John Wiles as a villain, but from what I've read John Wiles' tenure as showrunner makes "Chaos In Cardiff" sound like a breezy day at the office.
@@MrTARDIS I'm actually reminded of the 3rd season of "GET SMART". After 2 seasons with the same producer & story editor team, the 3rd season started with a new team taking over, who didn't last. Early-on, another production team took over, and they didn't last either! Finally, about mid-season, yet another team took over... but THEY stayed all the way to the end of the 5th season. The best thing the latter team did was remember that Max & 99 had been in love with each other since the pilot, and brought that sub-plot back and allowed it to progress from then on through first date, engagement, marriage, pregnancy & birth of twins. In the 2nd reunion film (which rightly completely ignored the 1st!), they were married for 20 years and their kids were in college. This ran totally counter to all the relentless cyncism that took over 80s sitcoms.
Ha! Your not the only one who’s had to resort watching Troy for research on the Siege of Troy myth. My friends in my drama group had to do modern day retelling of a Odyssey story and we decided to do the myth of Helen of Troy but from I recall, both Troy and the myth didn’t star Helen much despite being a big driving force to the plot. I’m not big myth expert so pardon me if I got some facts wrong. So instead, we went with Odysseus and the Cyclops which was much more fun and easy to research.
Donald Cotton's novelisation backs up your thoughts on how this played out :) it's really worth a read, and genuinely funny too.
did any of the video get found? are there remakes? I seem to have missed them in my wanderings
The only thing I remember of that Troy movie was watching it in class too but everyone screaming in class when naked people showed up lol. Instead, I got my Troy/Iliad story from... Phineas and Ferb. A very different place for sure.
Also hmm, I wonder if this story kind of informs how the Doctor is portrayed in certain later material, especially under Moffat's run, with the Doctor leaving consequences of his travels across the Universe and people starting to look at him as a bad thing for it.
I love The Myth Makers. brilliant story, great performances from all the cast.
It is actually within Ancient Greek comedic tradition to paint mythic heroes as assholes and cowards.Aristophanes did it a lot with Achillies to such effect that the tragedians started picking it up too.
Gotta love the treatment of young women in the 60s by the writers. Susan gets left with a 25 year old guy in a post apocalyptic London, and 16 year old Vicki gets left behind at Troy right after it gets sacked and burned to the ground because she met a guy who will probably be found and executed. Also, Katarina joins the TARDIS and does absolutely nothing before dying.
Funnily enough I saw Maureen O'Brian in an early episode of Jonathan Creek the other day (trying to watch them all on Britbox) which was produced by none other than Verity Lambert, it was great seeing her in another role. Bernard Kay who's in about a billion episodes of Dr Who was there too.
And the first victim in Jonathan Creek was Colin Baker! :)
@@sofioremskoglund8396ah but was it actually Colin Baker, or Sylvester McCoy in a wig?
Sounds like Viki was supposed to stay until the massacre
You know, Im Surprised as to whether or not anyone Knew about this period in time, that is Mentioned here in this Doctor Who Story {That is The Myth Makers, that is.}.
Yesss, i hated vicki s exit so much because she really grew on me
I thought she was adorable, and I liked her much more than Susan!
I love the myth makes is a good day doctor who story I need to listen to it i like it because the daleks master plan is the story after and I love the companie introduced in this doctor who story
It might not be the most popular of opinions but I'm glad Katarina was canned. I don't think she would have worked as a long term companion unless they really developed her level of understanding quite rapidly. Let's be honest, several serials of a companion constantly talking about magic, temples and being in an afterlife would have started to wear thin.
Jamie however, was a companion from the past done right.
Guess I should watch Troy too. For the… plot.
Also steven really starts to shine in the daleks master plan
Less entertaining than the *CHASE?!* Couldn't disagree more haha. I think this is Hartnell's best serial - I really wish we could see it. I find it very funny, certainly the funniest episode until Tom Baker comes along at least. Hartnell is great at comedy and I wish we could see this to show his comedy chops (though we can see The Gunfighters, which helps).
Oh my god this is my favourite Dr who video series I'm watching just after school wish I could I could donate to patreon
A person with magical ability is telling people that someone is a sorcerer she needs to look at herself lol
Companion "Exit via marriage" seems like a really lame story conceit. I hope Vicki is the last it's used on...
Jo Grant.
@@richd6362 Leela. *Romance, and she would go to marry that Guy*
Better than exit via.... whatever the heck happened with Dodo
Lets hope signapors copy turns up
It's a big shame that Katarina didn't have that much time in the show, Just end up having a short straw in the classic series only getting killed off in a Dalek story just 4 episodes in viva sacrifice.
You mean Katarina.
@@sg-zd8eb Fixed it now.
Just like Sara Kingdom, really.
@@pious83 I know.
@@SegaNintendoGuy64 Then again, considering how short her tenure as a companion was. Sara had more personality to her than Katarina.
I wish I could see what so many others seem to see in this one.
The telesnap reconstruction and audio are just turgid to me. It's the Who I found hardest to get through along with Celestial Toymaker, The Smugglers and The Space Pirates.
I'm gonna have to give this one another go as well. I really just wanted to get to Daleks Master Plan so I think I just kinda slogged through it. The existing soundtrack absolutely sucks though so I hope that if this eventually gets animated that the restoration team goes through and tries to make the music not sound totally off speed.
@@MSDOSProject "Speed" has become a real concern of mine. It's horrifying that 60 years later the PAL/NTSC problem still exists. I recently sent back a Region 2 DVD box set of THE AVENGERS' 4th season (Diana Rigg!!) because the speed difference was just TOO DAMNED noticable (and, the contrast was so intense, you couldn't see things in darker scenes), and instead, bought a Region-Free BLU-RAY player and a Region 2 Blu-Ray box set... which was PERFECT (on both scores). Some insist Blu-Rays "never caught on", but that's rubbish. It's only recently I learned that Blu-Rays are "encoded" by a completely different system, and so totally avoid the PAL problem if you're in America.
You know, further studying how female companions like Vicki, Katerina and maybe Dodo later and their actor’s were treated behind the scenes really makes feel sorry for them. The treatment kinda reminds me of how certain Yugioh animes would portray their female protagonists most notably late 5DS, Zexal, Arc V and Vrains (the later two had massive behind the scenes drama) where they would either get little to no action, subpar characterisation or that their character arc starts at an interesting place but quickly get shafted to the sidelines in favour of the more popular leads among the majority of audiences if I’m making sense.
It’s funny how three of them resort to brainwashing the Female Protagonists/ supporting characters to not give them development
👍
Rather than an animated recon I think this one deserves a theatrical one. Get one of the more bombastic Doctors like Jayston or Capaldi to do it as a one man show playing Homer addressing an Ancient Greek audience
This story is my dream episode find. Greek mythology is one of my things. I wonder what happened to the Trojan horse model?
Hopefully the rumors are true that 2 episodes of this story got found
I liked Vicki. Weird thing is, I found Vicki to be a better 'Susan' than the actual Susan. Shame she had to leave in, I think, a lame story.