I’m a Brit living in China for the past 6 years. I know the owner of SEKA (nice guy) and my local bike shop is a distributor. I’m not on commission (😂) and don’t own one but I do know that they’re manufactured in a factory that also produces frames for bikes in the pro peloton and he claims to the same standard. They are nice looking bikes!
Problem is how does one go about making a purchase? In August this year I contacted them directly. Initially they responded. However when I was at the point of making a purchase, they stopped responding to my emails. I have seen others in forums with the same complaint. Cam Nicholls earlier in the year reported purchasing issues with Seka. I ended up buying a bike from Chinese company called Yishun
It would be great to have you build and review an ICAN bike. Set it with up 105 mechanical, mid range wheels, common sense alloy parts, and see how it compares with the popular brands.
I bought a winspace frame a couple of years ago after having done a lot of research online and then a friend built it up with Ultegra for me. Outstanding bike so i bought a gravel frame from Yoeleo from china earlier in the year which again a friend built it up with sram for me. The quality from the Chinese brands is there and the cost saving is enough for me to purchase them.
I bought an ICAN Gravel X frame last year, unfortunately I bought a frame that was a size too big, however I was so impressed with the build that I ordered another frame in a smaller size. A couple of weeks after ordering the second frame a box arrived with a pair of 40mm Aero road wheels, I contacted ICAN and they told me they were a gift to me, the frame arrived a week or so after. The gravel bike is now fitting me perfectly, I sold the old frame almost immediately it was stripped and the wheels are on my Trek Emonda.
The Ican is a gravel bike and the Emonda a lightweight road bike, quite different really. I can take the Ican pretty much anywhere, it appears well built, it has good paint and rides well without creaking. The only issue is toe overlap.
I have 2 SEKA’s one EXCEED and one AFIELD. Both have over 10k km on the clock and they are flawless. I needed some spare parts reached out to SEKA and they shipped them from China to Korea to me. Just good service! I can recommend
@@sc705 The Afield was the first bike from SEKA on the market. They sell it as disc or rim brakes version. It is not an aero frame. But like the Exceed more endurance then race bike. I love both, but to be honest the Exceed is just an amazing frame. Very comfortable in seating position, it has a longer head tube. Very aero , you can configure the handle bar before you buy it and also choose the seat post if you want with or without set back. The quality is top notch. The BB they include is perfect even after 12k . I built my with Shimano 105 di2 and depending on the wheel set it weighs between 7.5 -8 kg. And I have the regular frame set , the RDC version is about 200g lighter. Honestly I am thinking to buy one more frame just as spare 😂
I’m building a Ican triaero. I took in this challenge after buying a used Cannondale. I’ve only been riding for two months and love it. I wanted to buy a new racing road bike. But what wanted the prices around outrageous. So I found Ican. I’m almost done building my bike.
The UCI sticker doesn't mean anything when it comes to safety or QC. It just means the tubes fit in their designated outline. The Elves phallus has groundbreaking aerodynamics that has even puzzled Red Bull F1. Rectangular tubes 😂
Have had my Yoeleo R12 for a year and a half now. Rides really well. Ultegra Di2. 32mm tires up from 28mm for added comfort. Custom paint is excellent. Had an issue with the rear wheel (not the frame) during assembly, so they had to send a spare part. Also, the head screw started coming a little loose after a few months, but there was an easy fix to that (can't remember what) - thanks to youtubers for sharing their solutions! Press-fit BB - not a sound and zero play. Just works!
I've heard very good things about Winspace and Yeoleo. The Winspace T1550 is widely used by various crit teams here in the US and is apparently very well made, reliable and rides well. I've heard many questionable things about Elves and I would personally avoid. I have experience with ICAN which is OK but definitely cheaply made. One other Chinese brand worth mentioning is Farsports. Farsports only makes wheels (right now) but I think they are some of the best wheels you can buy. Farsports has introduced one frame recently and others are coming. Light Bicycle also makes great wheels.
Chinese national team uses Pardus Spark EVO. Bike with full Shimano Ultegra Di2 is sub 5000 USD at a dealer where I live. Frame set for Spark RS (lower grade frame) is sub 1000 USD.
I tend to agree. As you rightly point out, all the expensive "Western" brands are made in China anyway. I already decided my next wheel set will be Winspace or Far Sports, e.g., and I can see me buying a direct-to-consumer Chinese frame too.
I bought a carbon HYPER wheel set and put them on my entry-level Trek Domane AL 2 recently. Much better than the existing Bontrager R1 in terms of speed and style.
Great video, David! Please test more "chinese" frames/bikes. 90 percent of the cykling community dont need ultra stiff frames anyway so why pay triplewise...❤
Hi David, thanks for the review on Chinese bike brands. It helps a lot of cyclist on a budget. Me myself having a Winspace Hyper wheels for 3 years now and it's really VFM. Had no complains for the performance and durablility. David, if you could be have the time, there's a new Chinese bike brand name HYGGE MODEL S. It would be great if you chould review this bike too. Has always. Thanks David Authur. Great work you have here.
It's interesting as most bicycle frames are made either in Taiwan or PRC. Quality is there and these brands are probably made from the same molds as their Western branded bicycles.
I have been riding a Winspace T1500 for just over a year now, no issues. Seka a re bad in communicating, seems impossible to buy. I had an Ican Gravel frame, great price, fast delivery, good quality and top notch customer service. Ex Winspace designers started their own frameset, the Tavelo Attack. Looks impressive at $1580. Yoeleo is a good company, What about Hygge?
Bought a custom Ti frame from Waltly this year for US$1250 (including Chinese domestic shipping since I live in China - international shipping would surely be more expensive) and it's been great. Nearly 4500km on the bike already since I put it together in April and I absolutely love it. Looks great and the frame is very well assembled. Waltly is another Chinese brand that manufactures Ti frames for other western brands, so they definitely know their stuff.
I bought a Yoeleo R11 and built it with an electric 105. Using my existing wheels, the total cost is under $3,000. It might not be as great as a $17,000 top tier bike, but I am sure that it is top enough for most people.
I have an ICAN A9 TRIAERO uci approved l... Am not a professional cyclist or engineer but I can say they roll pretty well on pairs of Schwable pro tyres... They are abit heavy for their built but yeah they are affordable... You might aswell built an A22 Ican frame set as your project bike Dave and see it for urself
Beating the world? I have no idea. But I have two Chinese road bikes, a Yoeleo R12 and an ICAN A10 (an aero rim brake frame that they recently stopped making). I'm really happy with both of them AND with the customer service I have received before and after the purchase. Things were apparently a bit dicey during Covid, but the shipping and supply chain problems have resolved. I have Chinese wheels on these bikes (Elite Carbon 50D, ICAN Aero 50, respectively). Really good. The Yoeleo replaced a Tarmac SL6 Expert. The frames and wheels are VERY competitively priced. I put Ultegra di2 on both of these bikes. To obtain sometging comparable from Trek or Specialized woukd be several thousands of $ more. Both bikes arrived with really good build quality, actually better than the Specialized (facing around brakes, droputs). I have no regrets whatsoever about these purchases and can recommend these companies. I'm not willing to extend that to all Chinese brands, though (some recent UA-cam videos have raised concerns about Elves, for example). And as things stand now, there's no way that I would use a Chinese group set yet. But I can vouch for these two company's frames, and ICAN and Elite Carbon wheels. The bikes are fast, light, absolutely silent, and comfortable. As for the customer service, ask a Canyon owner about their creaky seat posts, or a Canondale owner about the dangerous head tubes, etc.
this is true if companies keep charging 2k for an aluminum bike it took them $400 to make because all they did was make up some marketing wank about the welds and the tube butting that they did.
I have a Winspace SLC2.0. Very nice bike. I have it assembled with SRAM force and the Lun black edition rims. Not goin back to the expensive bike brands
Build one up as a project ,see our rides.I believe you could build a high quality bike that is similar in quality to a big brand but at a fraction of the cost.Trek specialised very expensive.
I bought a chinese full suspension fat frame on amazon a few years ago. It worked OK but the carbon was heavy and the BB was 120 mm causing some problems. The rear shock would bottom out easily. There are many little things that can make such a purchase tricky and you won''t know until it's in your hand.
I’ve seen multiple Seka’s in person and they look super nice, the finish inside the headtube and the BB is not up there with the known brands though. Also the thru axle tap in the front fork was off. If they fix small things like this I can see myself buying one no problem. Also I think Seka sounds better than Winspeed or Yoeleo.
I had built up a velobuild endurance frame bike last winter. So far very happy. Everything fit and went to gether, with out any extra work. A super nice riding bike. 105 mecanical group set, rim brakes, ican rims and other goodies.
I have owned a Serk A10 (rim brake) for four years now. Love it. I have met and rode with the company's owner in Shanghai while he was visiting from Beijing. Super cool to know the founder of the bike you own and ride on a personal basis.
I bought a decade ago a chinese brand road bike frame. About a year later I outgrew it. First, on a 60km/h descent, it developed a high speed wobble that terrified me. Then this began to happen even at 40km/h. At this point I realized that breaking my bones was not worth the price I paid for this frame and replaced it. If I was doing cycling just occasionally, I would probably have kept it though.
I bought a Chinese one in 2018, none of those brands in your video... I haven't had a problem with it until today, other than what happens with many aero seatposts, one day it comes down.... this year, a friend who had a specialized one and had fallen with it in a competition, he decided to buy a Chinese one too because he thought it wasn't worth spending so much when you run a serious risk of having accidents... he liked the bike so much that he bought it that people who ride with he was also surprised, and in less than 1 month, 2 others bought the same model he bought... he went from a specialized bike with electronic Shimano to a Chinese bike with an Ltwoo group... which was seen as crap, was I see it as very good and I believe that soon others will buy it too. We live in Brazil, we have very high fees and taxes... 2 thousand dollars that you pay even in a Chinese painting, for us it's 10 thousand in our currency plus the import tax which UNFORTUNATELY this year reached 92%... here's one The top bike costs another 3 figures, 150 thousand... sooner or later, Chinese bikes will dominate my country! Sorry my bad english!
These days most bikes are Chinese/ Taiwanese anyway, it's just that the Far East brands have cottoned on to the huge markup that Western brands charge for frames/bikes made in the same factories!
China and Taiwan are not the same thing. Taiwan has some of the highest reputed manufacturers on the planet. Buying a Taiwanese frame should be viewed no different than one made in the US or EU. China....not so much.
@@FurySpyder Yes. For now at least. win-win for us. I'm mostly referring to the skill of the builders. Esp in the world of metal bikes. Some really awesome welders in Taiwan, esp on the Ti front.
@@cjohnson3836 I'm sure there are in China too! UK brands manufacture there and I bought a Ti frame in 2015 direct from Xi'an Titan Cycles in China (via AliExpress) and have never looked back. Super frameset and tens of thousands of miles on the clock so far! Beautifully welded too!
@@cjohnson3836 As a mainland Chinese, (not Taiwanese) I have to concede your point. There are some mixed brands in mainland China that tarnish China's reputation. But at the same time there are some really great brands like seka, farsports, windspace, etc. Hopefully these brands will change the perception of Chinese bikes.
The colourways that Seka are offering are putting lots of bigger, more established brands to shame. Pity that more can't be that creative. It's a bit like the early days of Ford, you can have any colour you want as long as it's black.
I recently scored a great deal on a Viathon R1 , honestly it's an amazing bike, It got alot of bad feedback cuz its original owner but the engineers involved in these frames WOW, 👌 5 STAR. ITS FAST, AGGRESSIVE BUT COMFORTABLE. NOWADAYS TO GET GOOD DEALS ALOT OF PEOPLE ARE MOVING TOWARDS CHINA OR TAIWANESE BIKES. THESE TOP BRAND ARE SELLING BIKES NOW FOR TRIPLE THE COST, ITS NOW LIKE PUTTING A DOWN PAYMENT ON A HOUSE 👀😂🤦♂️😭.
You show the flyxii FE02 frame (the 350 GBP one) I bought twice. Flawless frame. The first one got in a crash and apparently survived (to be checked). I was so happy that I got another one, also flawless until now.
Seems like ICAN provide the best value, I like their design too. I would def go with a non branded frame unless I was building up a tri bike. I vote that you get the unbranded one, make up some JRB stickers and customize the styling of the frame. ICAN is a pretty sweet name, I wonder who said that would not look good on the down tube?
Dave, please do an ICAN build plus Shimano 105 groupset. I ordered their Aero frame with custom paint job, they were very flexible and offered a better quality painting option than i originally planned. Bike rides great, I'm very happy, but I'd like to hear your opinion since i don't experiment with as many bikes as you do.
so at the recent bike show in shanghai. The major brands were empty. the CHinese brands were most busy. Big brands just pricing themselves out of the market. which is fantastic!!
4:00 for a bit more than the 1400 quid you can get a TIME frameset on sale (for 1600-1800 EUR). Admittedly not the latest model, but it's not like the companies presented here innovate a lot justify closing any evolutionary gap.
Agree if it’s branded something that it’s not. Most of the carbon manufacturers now have been in business for a long time and cut their teeth and built their business supplying mainstream brands. The China branded bikes are good. I think everyone forgets that the China market is massive. A country like Australia alone could only be 5% of the China market which is competitive in itself. They make planes and trains and have universities that were being lectured at by serious professors from the west 15 years ago. I was living there and knew several that were being paid 3 X salary in USA / Uk. China has the best supply chain In the WORLD
I have spent a lot of time in China and Pardus bicycles are a well kept secret. Very reasonably priced, UCI sticker and bikes ridden by team china at competition. They have really great store staff who helped repair the pile of wank I picked up cheap elsewhere, and they did it for free. One of their top of the range models, all carbon with SRAM groupset was under £4 in the store I visited, with some great models under £2k. I think the brands that are actively exporting are hiking their prices somewhat.
Superb bikes. They’re based in Beijing but owned by an Australian couple…. So not exactly a “Chinese brand”. Check out their cycling trips they do as well across Asia. Awesome company..
Have a cannondale myself bad boy not even a great road bike ,but it has the important stuff wheels , peddles and handle bars . If you haven't put 30-40k km on your bike new bike not necessary yet more riding time is 🚴🏽♂️💨👊🏿
If companies like Specialized and Trek go under and everything is bought from Seka/Winspace/any Chinese brand, then where will the Chinese brands get the leading edge engineering? It seems they reverse engineer tons of stuff to be able to build their stuff. Will they be able to develop new ideas and do appropriate r/d to safely bring new ideas to market.
I’m sure a lot of the time you get something very comparable to what a western bike brand produce without paying the chunk of cash the middlemen like Trek or Specialized charge you. Not that I grudge them their cut. As Chinese brands establish more comprehensive distribution / logistics networks, better customer service, fully assembled bikes, configuration choices, warranties, nice websites and market their products more, their prices will converge on the prices the Western bike brands pay. That stuff costs money. It then gets down to how much you are prepared to pay for the brand name. When prices diverges to not much, most people likely will buy the name brand. Over time the Chinese manufacturers will become name brands as well. We pay a lot for branding and convenience.
My biggest problem with Sensah and L-Twoo are the mechanical designs of their components, although maybe some of them are limited by patents. I reckon I can sprint-shift Shimano STI better than Sensah mechanical.
I won’t be in the market for a new bike anytime soon, and would still stick with Euro or American brands for now, but would def be interested to see you do a long-term test to see how these Chinese bikes ride, how they hold up, and how well their companies honor warranty claims.
Affordable sure, but what about ride quality, after care, warranty etc? Save few bucks to ride a frame that rides like a brick? Ill be first to admit bike prices have gotten a bit out of hand. However you can get a name brand for not a tremendous amount more.....Giant for instance, which makes some of the best product around.
@@nicokilla11 'Almost' can be quite some time, though, because metallurgy and execution on it are very hard. The space is cornered by patents, too; if you licensed them proper prices would become increasingly less disrupting.
Dave have you seen the Polygon Helios A9X (DI2 Durace), Polygon Helios A8X (DI2 Ultegra) or Polygon Helios A7X (DI2 105) aero road bikes. Possibly the best value road aero bikes in Australia. Polygon bikes are made in Malaysia.
I absolutely hate Chinese state-owned giants acquiring European businesses with their endless amount of funding power but I think this time, the bike brands totally deserve if they lose the competition to the Chinese brands or get acquired by them. The price increase in the last 3 years was just insane.
$3300 for a Chinese made ti frame is not a bargain at all. In fact, some US boutique brands (eg, Turnerbikes) make a ti frame for $2400. But I see on Aliexpress that Chinese ti frames sell for about $700-$800 shipped.
Welli dunno, I looked at serk and for the same price, you can get a TLab R3 which has much more thinking behind it (there is not one round tube on that bike to control flex in different axis, made in Montreal, Canada, lifetime warranty on the frame, made just for you, no cookie cutter bikes. Complete bike for less than $4500usd, with Shimano 105 mechanical. Modern frame for life , components can be upgraded. I do not own one, I have no relationship with them, I am just saying that you have little gems when it comes to metal bikes. Carbon is cookie cutter anyways so I would not hesitate but the prices you show are still a good budget. For 20% difference I prefer to get is fitted by someone who knows what he’s doing. Having to switch components around is great if you know what you are doing. If not it ends up being costly to get your local bike shop to change your breaks position, bar width, stem length, etc…
I have a road bike that I think is Chinese but the brand doesn't seem to exist anymore. It's aluminium and nearly two decades old. It recently had it's first rebuild. It's a capable commuting bike and very stiff to ride. I just feel hesitant to spend thousands on a Chinese bike.
UCC, Camp, Spark, Rollingstone, Winspace, Seka and Hi-Light （I left out Java and Twitter but they are more popular in the lower price segment)……No one buy Elves, I can, Yoeleo in China, never saw one domestically
Hi David. Love your informative knowledgeable reviews. Just a quick question. I have a budget of 4k what bike could you recommend for overall bang for your buck. regards chris
$2800 just for a frame is not cheap. Especially for one from a unknown brand like Saka. To finish the bike it would cost $4000. That aint cheap for unknown brand. I get it that is cheaper than a 21k pinarello. The maximum I’d pay for a finished bike is 2.5k
I’m a Brit living in China for the past 6 years. I know the owner of SEKA (nice guy) and my local bike shop is a distributor. I’m not on commission (😂) and don’t own one but I do know that they’re manufactured in a factory that also produces frames for bikes in the pro peloton and he claims to the same standard. They are nice looking bikes!
I hadn’t heard of them before today, interested to look at their products
Problem is how does one go about making a purchase? In August this year I contacted them directly. Initially they responded. However when I was at the point of making a purchase, they stopped responding to my emails. I have seen others in forums with the same complaint. Cam Nicholls earlier in the year reported purchasing issues with Seka. I ended up buying a bike from Chinese company called Yishun
@@johnnycab8986 FACTOR Ostro
I love my seka exceed rdc and I live in Canada !
I understand why people do this,I just think it's a pity we have to bypass our local bike shop in order to get a good deal.
It would be great to have you build and review an ICAN bike. Set it with up 105 mechanical, mid range wheels, common sense alloy parts, and see how it compares with the popular brands.
Yes, I'd definitely like to see the ICAN build with 105 components
will building one; the old rim brake aero 007 with R7000 mech groupset. still waiting for shipping.
I bought a winspace frame a couple of years ago after having done a lot of research online and then a friend built it up with Ultegra for me. Outstanding bike so i bought a gravel frame from Yoeleo from china earlier in the year which again a friend built it up with sram for me. The quality from the Chinese brands is there and the cost saving is enough for me to purchase them.
I bought an elves vanyar rim brake and I loved this bike it’s awsome for a great price👍🏻
I bought an ICAN Gravel X frame last year, unfortunately I bought a frame that was a size too big, however I was so impressed with the build that I ordered another frame in a smaller size. A couple of weeks after ordering the second frame a box arrived with a pair of 40mm Aero road wheels, I contacted ICAN and they told me they were a gift to me, the frame arrived a week or so after. The gravel bike is now fitting me perfectly, I sold the old frame almost immediately it was stripped and the wheels are on my Trek Emonda.
Be interesting to know how the new bike compares to your Emonda. Their new line is very tempting.
The Ican is a gravel bike and the Emonda a lightweight road bike, quite different really. I can take the Ican pretty much anywhere, it appears well built, it has good paint and rides well without creaking. The only issue is toe overlap.
The more big brands charge silly prices the more of a foothold these will gain. The same with the groupsets
EXACTLY!! 💯
I have 2 SEKA’s one EXCEED and one AFIELD. Both have over 10k km on the clock and they are flawless. I needed some spare parts reached out to SEKA and they shipped them from China to Korea to me. Just good service! I can recommend
Thanks for sharing
Which do you prefer and how do you decide which to ride? I don't hear much about the Afield - it reminds me of the aethos
@@sc705 The Afield was the first bike from SEKA on the market. They sell it as disc or rim brakes version. It is not an aero frame. But like the Exceed more endurance then race bike. I love both, but to be honest the Exceed is just an amazing frame. Very comfortable in seating position, it has a longer head tube. Very aero , you can configure the handle bar before you buy it and also choose the seat post if you want with or without set back. The quality is top notch. The BB they include is perfect even after 12k . I built my with Shimano 105 di2 and depending on the wheel set it weighs between 7.5 -8 kg. And I have the regular frame set , the RDC version is about 200g lighter. Honestly I am thinking to buy one more frame just as spare 😂
You should buy as a project. Great video my friend.
I’m building a Ican triaero. I took in this challenge after buying a used Cannondale. I’ve only been riding for two months and love it. I wanted to buy a new racing road bike. But what wanted the prices around outrageous. So I found Ican. I’m almost done building my bike.
wow. almost same shoes here. waiting for my aero 007 rim brake. it has good reputation in my location. cant wait for it.
The more silly bike prices become the more money the Chinese will make.
The UCI sticker doesn't mean anything when it comes to safety or QC. It just means the tubes fit in their designated outline. The Elves phallus has groundbreaking aerodynamics that has even puzzled Red Bull F1. Rectangular tubes 😂
So damn funny!
the UCI decal is worth slightly less than my GNC+ sub
Did u... intentionally misspell Elves Falath?
Scott foil also has some rectangular shapes in tubes
UCI another Mafia bahhhh
Have had my Yoeleo R12 for a year and a half now. Rides really well. Ultegra Di2. 32mm tires up from 28mm for added comfort. Custom paint is excellent. Had an issue with the rear wheel (not the frame) during assembly, so they had to send a spare part. Also, the head screw started coming a little loose after a few months, but there was an easy fix to that (can't remember what) - thanks to youtubers for sharing their solutions! Press-fit BB - not a sound and zero play. Just works!
I've heard very good things about Winspace and Yeoleo. The Winspace T1550 is widely used by various crit teams here in the US and is apparently very well made, reliable and rides well. I've heard many questionable things about Elves and I would personally avoid. I have experience with ICAN which is OK but definitely cheaply made. One other Chinese brand worth mentioning is Farsports. Farsports only makes wheels (right now) but I think they are some of the best wheels you can buy. Farsports has introduced one frame recently and others are coming. Light Bicycle also makes great wheels.
I ride wheelsets from Farsports and Light Bicycle on my gravel and road bikes and they are indeed superb wheels 👍.
I also have Farsport wheels. They are fantastic.
I own an elves vanyar and it is a great bike👍🏻
I have a Vanyar with Farsport wheels = 10/10
Chinese national team uses Pardus Spark EVO. Bike with full Shimano Ultegra Di2 is sub 5000 USD at a dealer where I live. Frame set for Spark RS (lower grade frame) is sub 1000 USD.
I tend to agree. As you rightly point out, all the expensive "Western" brands are made in China anyway. I already decided my next wheel set will be Winspace or Far Sports, e.g., and I can see me buying a direct-to-consumer Chinese frame too.
I bought a carbon HYPER wheel set and put them on my entry-level Trek Domane AL 2 recently. Much better than the existing Bontrager R1 in terms of speed and style.
Great video, David! Please test more "chinese" frames/bikes. 90 percent of the cykling community dont need ultra stiff frames anyway so why pay triplewise...❤
I have ICAN carbon wheels on my gravel bike. They’re great. Very solid wheels. Have completed some big rides on them.
Hi David, thanks for the review on Chinese bike brands. It helps a lot of cyclist on a budget. Me myself having a Winspace Hyper wheels for 3 years now and it's really VFM. Had no complains for the performance and durablility. David, if you could be have the time, there's a new Chinese bike brand name HYGGE MODEL S. It would be great if you chould review this bike too. Has always. Thanks David Authur. Great work you have here.
It's interesting as most bicycle frames are made either in Taiwan or PRC. Quality is there and these brands are probably made from the same molds as their Western branded bicycles.
I have been riding a Winspace T1500 for just over a year now, no issues. Seka a re bad in communicating, seems impossible to buy. I had an Ican Gravel frame, great price, fast delivery, good quality and top notch customer service. Ex Winspace designers started their own frameset, the Tavelo Attack. Looks impressive at $1580. Yoeleo is a good company, What about Hygge?
If pricing is better and quality is there why not?
Bought a custom Ti frame from Waltly this year for US$1250 (including Chinese domestic shipping since I live in China - international shipping would surely be more expensive) and it's been great. Nearly 4500km on the bike already since I put it together in April and I absolutely love it. Looks great and the frame is very well assembled. Waltly is another Chinese brand that manufactures Ti frames for other western brands, so they definitely know their stuff.
I bought a Yoeleo R11 and built it with an electric 105. Using my existing wheels, the total cost is under $3,000. It might not be as great as a $17,000 top tier bike, but I am sure that it is top enough for most people.
Same here.
I built me a Elves Falath Evo with a 105 Di2 and the Elves wheelset, all for under 2900€. This bike is crazy fast and super comfy.
@@66mikkimnice!
The big brands are insanely expensive.
Never will buy from big brand anymore
What boke do you have ?@@Montrealcycling
@@lethargic_cow elves vanyar model
Biggest problem with some china bikes is that they dont come in my size. Seka doesnt have a 60 frame
I honestly feel ashamed bc of our asian height 😂
Seraph does.......
I have an ICAN A9 TRIAERO uci approved l... Am not a professional cyclist or engineer but I can say they roll pretty well on pairs of Schwable pro tyres... They are abit heavy for their built but yeah they are affordable... You might aswell built an A22 Ican frame set as your project bike Dave and see it for urself
I'd like it if you reviewed a Ti frame from Waltly. They are custom Ti frames for around $1000 US.
My cfr696 did 20k without a problem, bikepacking, gnarly gravel. I like it so much 😁
My Elves Evo is 7.6kg and 50mm deep rims. A reasonable weight for an aero bike that cost me 2500 euros.
How much it would costs you if you get it from westeren brands? thanks!
@@Faa334 5-6000
Beating the world? I have no idea. But I have two Chinese road bikes, a Yoeleo R12 and an ICAN A10 (an aero rim brake frame that they recently stopped making). I'm really happy with both of them AND with the customer service I have received before and after the purchase. Things were apparently a bit dicey during Covid, but the shipping and supply chain problems have resolved. I have Chinese wheels on these bikes (Elite Carbon 50D, ICAN Aero 50, respectively). Really good. The Yoeleo replaced a Tarmac SL6 Expert. The frames and wheels are VERY competitively priced. I put Ultegra di2 on both of these bikes. To obtain sometging comparable from Trek or Specialized woukd be several thousands of $ more. Both bikes arrived with really good build quality, actually better than the Specialized (facing around brakes, droputs). I have no regrets whatsoever about these purchases and can recommend these companies. I'm not willing to extend that to all Chinese brands, though (some recent UA-cam videos have raised concerns about Elves, for example). And as things stand now, there's no way that I would use a Chinese group set yet. But I can vouch for these two company's frames, and ICAN and Elite Carbon wheels. The bikes are fast, light, absolutely silent, and comfortable. As for the customer service, ask a Canyon owner about their creaky seat posts, or a Canondale owner about the dangerous head tubes, etc.
Are you referring to hambinis video on elves bikes?
+1 for Ican as they are the only ones among these who also do a dedicated CX frame and not just a gravel/CX frame (which isn't a CX frame!)
this is true if companies keep charging 2k for an aluminum bike it took them $400 to make because all they did was make up some marketing wank about the welds and the tube butting that they did.
This was an awesome video...great job!
I have a Winspace SLC2.0. Very nice bike. I have it assembled with SRAM force and the Lun black edition rims. Not goin back to the expensive bike brands
Same here but i built mine with sram red mechanical brilliant bike
💯💯💯@@markhall6026
is this type for all round ?
@@y2yank878 yes
I have two lun wheelsets and a winspace G2 assembled with SRAM rival. No regrets.
Bought from china mtb frame and wheels bars seat all carbon raced this bike for four years bomb proof and top quality no complaints.
People often complain about warranty, but you could easily replace these frames five times over compared to name brand frames.
Build one up as a project ,see our rides.I believe you could build a high quality bike that is similar in quality to a big brand but at a fraction of the cost.Trek specialised very expensive.
Great write up!!! 👌
I have three sets of ICAN wheels. They have performed well.
I ride a Seka Exceed RDC with Winspace Hyper Wheels and I can say its an excellent bike!
I bought a chinese full suspension fat frame on amazon a few years ago. It worked OK but the carbon was heavy and the BB was 120 mm causing some problems. The rear shock would bottom out easily. There are many little things that can make such a purchase tricky and you won''t know until it's in your hand.
9:23... That is one good looking bike.
I’ve seen multiple Seka’s in person and they look super nice, the finish inside the headtube and the BB is not up there with the known brands though. Also the thru axle tap in the front fork was off. If they fix small things like this I can see myself buying one no problem. Also I think Seka sounds better than Winspeed or Yoeleo.
I had built up a velobuild endurance frame bike last winter. So far very happy. Everything fit and went to gether, with out any extra work. A super nice riding bike. 105 mecanical group set, rim brakes, ican rims and other goodies.
I know all bikes are stating to look similar but that Seka looks way too much like a Factor
I have owned a Serk A10 (rim brake) for four years now. Love it. I have met and rode with the company's owner in Shanghai while he was visiting from Beijing. Super cool to know the founder of the bike you own and ride on a personal basis.
I bought a decade ago a chinese brand road bike frame. About a year later I outgrew it. First, on a 60km/h descent, it developed a high speed wobble that terrified me. Then this began to happen even at 40km/h. At this point I realized that breaking my bones was not worth the price I paid for this frame and replaced it.
If I was doing cycling just occasionally, I would probably have kept it though.
I bought a Chinese one in 2018, none of those brands in your video... I haven't had a problem with it until today, other than what happens with many aero seatposts, one day it comes down.... this year, a friend who had a specialized one and had fallen with it in a competition, he decided to buy a Chinese one too because he thought it wasn't worth spending so much when you run a serious risk of having accidents... he liked the bike so much that he bought it that people who ride with he was also surprised, and in less than 1 month, 2 others bought the same model he bought... he went from a specialized bike with electronic Shimano to a Chinese bike with an Ltwoo group... which was seen as crap, was I see it as very good and I believe that soon others will buy it too. We live in Brazil, we have very high fees and taxes... 2 thousand dollars that you pay even in a Chinese painting, for us it's 10 thousand in our currency plus the import tax which UNFORTUNATELY this year reached 92%... here's one The top bike costs another 3 figures, 150 thousand... sooner or later, Chinese bikes will dominate my country! Sorry my bad english!
These days most bikes are Chinese/ Taiwanese anyway, it's just that the Far East brands have cottoned on to the huge markup that Western brands charge for frames/bikes made in the same factories!
China and Taiwan are not the same thing. Taiwan has some of the highest reputed manufacturers on the planet. Buying a Taiwanese frame should be viewed no different than one made in the US or EU. China....not so much.
@@cjohnson3836 .... Except Taiwan is cheaper than the EU/US still ...
@@FurySpyder Yes. For now at least. win-win for us. I'm mostly referring to the skill of the builders. Esp in the world of metal bikes. Some really awesome welders in Taiwan, esp on the Ti front.
@@cjohnson3836 I'm sure there are in China too! UK brands manufacture there and I bought a Ti frame in 2015 direct from Xi'an Titan Cycles in China (via AliExpress) and have never looked back. Super frameset and tens of thousands of miles on the clock so far! Beautifully welded too!
@@cjohnson3836 As a mainland Chinese, (not Taiwanese) I have to concede your point. There are some mixed brands in mainland China that tarnish China's reputation. But at the same time there are some really great brands like seka, farsports, windspace, etc. Hopefully these brands will change the perception of Chinese bikes.
The colourways that Seka are offering are putting lots of bigger, more established brands to shame. Pity that more can't be that creative. It's a bit like the early days of Ford, you can have any colour you want as long as it's black.
Take a look a elves, they offer a custom paintjob for only 50 bucks more...too bad that David did not include it in his vid.
I recently scored a great deal on a Viathon R1 , honestly it's an amazing bike, It got alot of bad feedback cuz its original owner but the engineers involved in these frames WOW, 👌 5 STAR. ITS FAST, AGGRESSIVE BUT COMFORTABLE. NOWADAYS TO GET GOOD DEALS ALOT OF PEOPLE ARE MOVING TOWARDS CHINA OR TAIWANESE BIKES. THESE TOP BRAND ARE SELLING BIKES NOW FOR TRIPLE THE COST, ITS NOW LIKE PUTTING A DOWN PAYMENT ON A HOUSE 👀😂🤦♂️😭.
You show the flyxii FE02 frame (the 350 GBP one) I bought twice. Flawless frame. The first one got in a crash and apparently survived (to be checked). I was so happy that I got another one, also flawless until now.
Not for me, I think bikes prices will drop anyway, currently to expensive and surplus stock
Seems like ICAN provide the best value, I like their design too. I would def go with a non branded frame unless I was building up a tri bike. I vote that you get the unbranded one, make up some JRB stickers and customize the styling of the frame. ICAN is a pretty sweet name, I wonder who said that would not look good on the down tube?
Dave, please do an ICAN build plus Shimano 105 groupset. I ordered their Aero frame with custom paint job, they were very flexible and offered a better quality painting option than i originally planned. Bike rides great, I'm very happy, but I'd like to hear your opinion since i don't experiment with as many bikes as you do.
Elves are bringing out a gravel frame in early 2025 as well as an endurance version of the Elgath with more tyre clearance.
so at the recent bike show in shanghai. The major brands were empty.
the CHinese brands were most busy.
Big brands just pricing themselves out of the market. which is fantastic!!
4:00 for a bit more than the 1400 quid you can get a TIME frameset on sale (for 1600-1800 EUR). Admittedly not the latest model, but it's not like the companies presented here innovate a lot justify closing any evolutionary gap.
Titanium rim brake bikes are to attractive!
Agree if it’s branded something that it’s not.
Most of the carbon manufacturers now have been in business for a long time and cut their teeth and built their business supplying mainstream brands.
The China branded bikes are good. I think everyone forgets that the China market is massive. A country like Australia alone could only be 5% of the China market which is competitive in itself.
They make planes and trains and have universities that were being lectured at by serious professors from the west 15 years ago.
I was living there and knew several that were being paid 3 X salary in USA / Uk.
China has the best supply chain In the WORLD
I have spent a lot of time in China and Pardus bicycles are a well kept secret. Very reasonably priced, UCI sticker and bikes ridden by team china at competition. They have really great store staff who helped repair the pile of wank I picked up cheap elsewhere, and they did it for free.
One of their top of the range models, all carbon with SRAM groupset was under £4 in the store I visited, with some great models under £2k. I think the brands that are actively exporting are hiking their prices somewhat.
daamn, that Serk A30 M looks like a very sweet Ti option.
Superb bikes. They’re based in Beijing but owned by an Australian couple…. So not exactly a “Chinese brand”. Check out their cycling trips they do as well across Asia. Awesome company..
Have a cannondale myself bad boy not even a great road bike ,but it has the important stuff wheels , peddles and handle bars .
If you haven't put 30-40k km on your bike new bike not necessary yet more riding time is 🚴🏽♂️💨👊🏿
Yes I would like to see the build on triaero A22 frame that you talked about at 8:54 in the video .
AMFLOW with DJI motor. The new kid in the block!
If companies like Specialized and Trek go under and everything is bought from Seka/Winspace/any Chinese brand, then where will the Chinese brands get the leading edge engineering? It seems they reverse engineer tons of stuff to be able to build their stuff. Will they be able to develop new ideas and do appropriate r/d to safely bring new ideas to market.
Do we really need so many new ideas when it comes to bikes ?
Which world tour team is riding elves bikes in the TDF next year?
Compare to the others mentioned, SEKA Exceed RDC definitely catch my attention... But the price isn't Cheap at all, actually....
I’m sure a lot of the time you get something very comparable to what a western bike brand produce without paying the chunk of cash the middlemen like Trek or Specialized charge you. Not that I grudge them their cut. As Chinese brands establish more comprehensive distribution / logistics networks, better customer service, fully assembled bikes, configuration choices, warranties, nice websites and market their products more, their prices will converge on the prices the Western bike brands pay. That stuff costs money. It then gets down to how much you are prepared to pay for the brand name. When prices diverges to not much, most people likely will buy the name brand. Over time the Chinese manufacturers will become name brands as well. We pay a lot for branding and convenience.
I would be more comfortable to buy a bike frame from Taiwan rather China, but I’m intrigued about their group set though
My biggest problem with Sensah and L-Twoo are the mechanical designs of their components, although maybe some of them are limited by patents. I reckon I can sprint-shift Shimano STI better than Sensah mechanical.
It would be great to see a mountain bike version of the video please
The big issue that troubles me with Chinese bikes is the lack of dealer network.
A networtk cost money, direkt to consumer is way cheaper. Some (like Elves) have local distributors.
I won’t be in the market for a new bike anytime soon, and would still stick with Euro or American brands for now, but would def be interested to see you do a long-term test to see how these Chinese bikes ride, how they hold up, and how well their companies honor warranty claims.
💯It's more affordable vs the BIG BRANDS 💯
Affordable sure, but what about ride quality, after care, warranty etc? Save few bucks to ride a frame that rides like a brick? Ill be first to admit bike prices have gotten a bit out of hand. However you can get a name brand for not a tremendous amount more.....Giant for instance, which makes some of the best product around.
I like the Titanium bike@@elonrubin710 - they have a warranty 😎👍 Giant doesn't offer a titanium bike
Current overstock 2023 'well known brand' bikes are sold with 30% discount or more. 4k for ultegradi2 carbon wheels/parts is not special today
I'm surprised they haven't come up with kit to seriously challenge Shimano or Sram.
@@nicokilla11 'Almost' can be quite some time, though, because metallurgy and execution on it are very hard. The space is cornered by patents, too; if you licensed them proper prices would become increasingly less disrupting.
Dave have you seen the Polygon Helios A9X (DI2 Durace), Polygon Helios A8X (DI2 Ultegra) or Polygon Helios A7X (DI2 105) aero road bikes. Possibly the best value road aero bikes in Australia. Polygon bikes are made in Malaysia.
Polygon is Indonesia company, not Malaysia...
strongly suggest you to include which frames are threaded bb
I absolutely hate Chinese state-owned giants acquiring European businesses with their endless amount of funding power but I think this time, the bike brands totally deserve if they lose the competition to the Chinese brands or get acquired by them. The price increase in the last 3 years was just insane.
SEKA is a world class product. Prefer it to mu F12 Dogma.
$3300 for a Chinese made ti frame is not a bargain at all. In fact, some US boutique brands (eg, Turnerbikes) make a ti frame for $2400. But I see on Aliexpress that Chinese ti frames sell for about $700-$800 shipped.
Welli dunno, I looked at serk and for the same price, you can get a TLab R3 which has much more thinking behind it (there is not one round tube on that bike to control flex in different axis, made in Montreal, Canada, lifetime warranty on the frame, made just for you, no cookie cutter bikes. Complete bike for less than $4500usd, with Shimano 105 mechanical. Modern frame for life , components can be upgraded. I do not own one, I have no relationship with them, I am just saying that you have little gems when it comes to metal bikes. Carbon is cookie cutter anyways so I would not hesitate but the prices you show are still a good budget. For 20% difference I prefer to get is fitted by someone who knows what he’s doing. Having to switch components around is great if you know what you are doing. If not it ends up being costly to get your local bike shop to change your breaks position, bar width, stem length, etc…
Yip my next bike will be a Yoeleo or a Winspace
Please review the NEW TRIGON FRAMESET
I have a road bike that I think is Chinese but the brand doesn't seem to exist anymore. It's aluminium and nearly two decades old. It recently had it's first rebuild. It's a capable commuting bike and very stiff to ride. I just feel hesitant to spend thousands on a Chinese bike.
UCC, Camp, Spark, Rollingstone, Winspace, Seka and Hi-Light （I left out Java and Twitter but they are more popular in the lower price segment)……No one buy Elves, I can, Yoeleo in China, never saw one domestically
I don't think the brands herein are as inclusive, in terms of what China could offer. Please check brands like Pardus, Bross, Camp, etc.
I have a seka, and it's brilliant. It's just a shame I'm not as fast as it deserves.
I would prefer to ride my Fairlight Secan any day thank you very much...
Lol at the comments "I'll stick with Euro and USA brands for now". Is there anyone still out there that doesn't know where these frames are made? 😁
Hi David. Love your informative knowledgeable reviews. Just a quick question. I have a budget of 4k what bike could you recommend for overall bang for your buck. regards chris
What's your requirement? Road racing? Comfort? Brands like Giant and Canyon typically offer best bang for buck
I was looking at buying a Triaero A9 aero bike. Maybe you could build one up and do a ride review?
I have had cosmic wheels an ff wheels both have been good no problems
Just ordered some Elite Wheels 👍
Is it just me of is the volume in some of David's videos really low?
Pls, do a build with Seka
I got a SAVA A7 anniversary edition. Shimano 105 for €1500. 🇨🇳
You should have a look at Taiwanese company Gusto full Shimano 105 DI2 bike for 2500$US
$2800 just for a frame is not cheap. Especially for one from a unknown brand like Saka. To finish the bike it would cost $4000. That aint cheap for unknown brand. I get it that is cheaper than a 21k pinarello. The maximum I’d pay for a finished bike is 2.5k
I just brought a pinarello from from China it is a nice frame it is the latest f can not fined any thing krong with it
They do have a hard tail mountain bike.
If the big brands didn't take ( let's say) micky so much then they wouldn't be at such threat from the cheap Chinese revolution