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Is the Church Hostile to Men? | Doug Wilson and Aaron Renn
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- Опубліковано 9 чер 2021
- In this clip from Man Rampant, Pastor Doug Wilson and Aaron Renn discuss the sins of men and the sins of women.
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Something I’ve always noticed is a difference in addressing immorality. If a man is immoral he’s a pervert who needs to stop. But if a woman is immoral she always has good reason for being so and we are supposed to sympathize.. She needs love, didn’t have a good father etc.
100%! The church has become feminized and gender biased, it was always going to happen because some pastors who are even complementarian have set up an elite/alpha male bubble around themselves where they pose as the only good men out there.
It's the same in society. Women are coddled and men are not. Men are slowly waking up to the double standard and walking away from these bs institutions.
So true
Right on.
Amen !!! Woman are no longer taught how to be biblical women.
I have gotten into two physical atercations with two different Pastors who tried to control my family thru the backdoor called my wife.. I reminded those Pastors that everything went through me first... Don't criticize the Head of the house behind my back..One of them said that Jesus was in him,and I straight forward told him that he didn't have enough Jesus in him and that I was going to beat the Devil out of him .I am the Head of my household and that I was the one that had to answer to the Lord for my family..
What was the actual issue? And did your wife agree?
if you're getting into physical altercations with people on a regular basis, you're the common factor here
@FourOf92000 Beta?
I could not say it any better. Evangelical pastors are so intimidated by Christian women that they dare not say anything spiritually critical of women. Yet, the same pastors feel free to tear into men whenever the topic arises. However, men are now beginning to notice this.
I've said this for over a decade! I'm happy and grateful to God more men are recognizing this.
In 1991, Strauss & Howe wrote in their landmark book "Generations" that "The Sexual Revolution was more a women's movement... in the 1970s premarital sex doubled among women." This is NEVER EVER mentioned by pastors, yet it is a MAJOR moral issue. In the 1920s 70% of women were virgins at marriage now 5% are virgins. Meanwhile, male virginity has gone from 7% in 1989 to 27% in 2018. On top of this the female marriage rate has gone from a high of 90.2% in the 1950s to a staggeringly low of 31.1% in 2010. Today most men are significantly less promiscuous than women. Again, these things are NEVER confronted or mentioned by pastors.
As long as pastors pretend that women are angels DO NOT expect MGTOW to go away and do not expect Red Pill content creators to fail to rightfully and justly point out how the church is blind to what is actually happening.
The question was: is the church hostile to men?
That question was not answered.
The two men in this video speak like women, and that is why most men have abandoned the church.
Good ol Pastor Doogie seldom does! 😏
Yep a lot of dodging around the question. Glad I’m not the only one who noticed that.
A subject always handled with kid gloves so as not to offend women
Yes it is
YOU WIN
If women's sinfulness is not being addressed from the pulpit then men are being neglected along with her.
Both benefit from the addressing of sin🙋♀️
No they don't talk about women's sins.
The answer is yes it's hostile to men.
And yet Jesus isn't.
You will almost never hear the average American evangelical pastor talk from the pulpit about women's sins and tell them to repent of them. Women have been known to punish the pastor for daring to speak about them by withholding offering or tithe checks. Again, when they do this they are never disciplined or expelled from the church.
As a man I always hear how I have to man up but women can have standards. Translation=men are always responsible for anything even if they didn’t do it.
Experiment: Share these short clips with the men in your church, including the pastors. See what happens.
@A P i know of one brother who shared one of these clips in good faith with his pastor. The pastor was thoroughly triggered and defensive. Why? Not sure. But the brother said the attendance is about 85%women and 15% men.
@@urbanpuritano133 The "Church Business" most resembles the tavern business. The key being, get women in the door and men will follow. This worked, until it didn't. I am not an Evangelical, but attended a couple of services. You couldn't help but notice that these churches are repositories of single mothers. The Pastors will attempt to shame men for looking at P@rn, but are completely silent about women riding the c@ck carousel. Men are walking away, as these churches have nothing to offer. Wilson and Renn are pulling the "Honesty Scam" because they have no other options.
@@urbanpuritano133 you know why, but you're smart enough to avoid saying it in polite company.
@@elvistiso6275 it's a failure to return to patriarchy.
To be fair, Wilson talks a good game. But when it comes to changing real world actions nobody follows through.
Christian pastors held men down so the feminists could beat them, and then are shocked when men avoid the weekly beating. Hilarious
I get very frustrated around Father’s Day because it’s typically time for the annual “kick men in the pants” sermon where we get to hear how terrible we are at leading and how badly everyone in our lives needs us to step up.
I get it, I honestly do...we are to be leaders of our families and oftentimes we don’t live up to that call. But to pick on us year after year on Father’s Day when a month ago the mothers were honored for all they do, is very off putting.
This isn’t just my home church that has done this (though they are guilty at times). This is, in my experience, the typical Father’s Day routine in many churches. Kick us in the pants on any other Sunday, but give us a little credit on Father’s Day. As a man who genuinely does try to lead my family in a Biblical way, it’d be nice for guys like me (many of them much better than me) to get honored for once.
Where did you get the 'leaders in the family' rap? Not the Bible...that's just a tendenious misreading of the 'head' passage, which is not about 'leadership' as in archon. It is about Adam's chronological priority to Eve, which has nothing to do with anything except rebutting paganism that puts the female first. The secret to marriage is mutual submission. Not 'leadership'. The family is not an army platoon. It is a relationship of sacrificial love for and service to each other.
Exactly!
Thank-you for writing this. I have noticed this for years. It is portrayed as “well I guess you didn’t do too bad Dad, so Happy Father’s Day, and when you finish your cake and ice cream let’s talk about how we can do better.”
The problem is that men are expected to bear responsibility for "manning up" and taking charge, but their authority to do so has been carefully and deliberately whittled away legally and psychologically (the latter with no small assistance from a lot of pastors).
What this looks like in practice is slavery or at least a no-win situation so it's no surprise men are declining to play. The hosts even acknowledge this in another video, but their solution is to become skilled at psychology yourself, the better to steer others in the correct direction. This is at best a half measure and also a fool's errand because you're trying to manipulate a born manipulator, i.e. jumping in the ocean to give fish swimming lessons.
That's not a long term solution, so looks like everyone will have to learn things the hard way that God's plan is the correct one.
Well at least all the voluminous "man up" literature will make for good kindling after we're all trying to stay warm when the lights go out.
The church isn't hostile to men, but it is hostile to manliness
Great way to put it.
facts
You're half right. Church is both hostile to men and to manliness. I've got a whole website dedicated to how one church worked, entirely based upon lies, to tear my marriage apart and to steal my sons from me. And no church came to my aid. They hate men because we are the image of God. 1 Corinthians 11:7 And they worship women.
@@keithentz5635 I agree brother. We are in the last days and satans back to his playbook of tempting eve and then Adam follows and is brought down through that. I’m sorry for your loss; I too am divorced and abandoned by a godless woman who deceived me. The church hates masculine qualities when they come from men these days. They cater to the feminine nature more or women in general.
@@AB-ou5qc Amen, Brother!
Feminism in the church.. spirit of Jezebel..
Jezebel was eaten by a dog in the end. God will prevail.
Yep. Every church these days is worshipping the Jezebel Spirit, not God, like they think they are.
The problem with these Christian conversations is, even when men point out the problems and imperfections of women (them being sinful, difficult, and antagonistic), they are limited as men. In other words, they are really only capable of fixing HALF of the problem. The other half can MOST EFFECTIVELY (I would argue ONLY) be fixed by OLDER WOMEN INSTRUCTING AND MENTORING YOUNGER WOMEN. At least, that's what Paul in his epistle commands (Titus 2:3-5).
I purchased George Gilder's book "Men and Marriage" because I saw him interviewed by Doug Wilson. Gilder points out that married men build civilizations for their wives and children. Hence, if a culture and the church de-value men and marriage, their aggression can be unleashed on society.
I’m not sure what you should call church leadership campaigning against the biblical truth of wifely submission and celebrating its opposite with slogans like “Happy Wife, Happy Life.” but if they escape condemnation for their essential contribution to the death of marriage, I’ll be disappointed.
They won't, but it's not a joy to God. The heart needs to be able to grieve for it. :0 After all, there's rejoicing in heaven when someone turns from their sin. What does it benefit anyone if my brother dies? Why not endure all things in hope for them?
Very thankful for Doug Wilson's ministry
I now understand Marx's "Opiate to the masses" comment - the pastors hook you with acknowledging sin, but with no encouragement to pursue perfection in Christ thru prayer, meditation, contemplation, sacrifice (& sacrificial giving), fasting, worship, and Bible reading. But I get more frustrated that the church jumps thru the world's and the world's reality becomes the church's reality (as if Christ didn't hang long enough on the cross to overcome this world).
I understand you man, exactly. The great men of faith did just that.
The churches don't want strong men in their church. Also I don't think many of the pastors are committed to the practices you mention themselves so how can they spur others to do those things? Too busy shopping for skinny jeans.
Give them head coverings and make them be silent if they're going to participate at all like God commands. Until you're willing to follow Him, you're only placating to the culture. And if you think that by doing so, women are in danger, then I guess you don't really have any Christian men in your conversations after all. Judgment starts with the body. If you think God is going to overlook disobedience then you're not reading the same Bible I do. We all have to repent. From the leaders to the followers. But don't pretend you love people if you're not willing to obey God. :0
I will say that although I agree with the points made in this video, I find it ironic that it basically ends with "Well, women are really negatively affected more by this." Lol.
Whamen most affected
Just goes to show, how in control the spirit of Jezebel is with the western Church. They just CAN'T help themselves.
Why must the correct answer be in the middle ground?
Enough of the ad temporantium fallacy.
Thank you brother, finally someone with a logical viewpoint. They still tiptoe around the subject as to cast blame equally. There needs to be a correction that swings the pendulum to the correct position, and if we simply counterbalance it in the same position then we are going nowhere.
Exactly! This problem has been allowed to not just FESTER for so long, but to grow like wildfire. There is a SERIOUS time of correction and backlash to deal with. And it's going to be UGLY! Women are so used to not only being shielded from their wickedness but placated and codified in it. They have devolved so far into the spirit of Jezebel that to bring it ALL to the forefront is going to send most screaming like banshees out of the sanctuary.
And MGTOW isn't some over-reaction. They LOVE to compare the red-pill or MGTOW to feminism. That's apples and orangutans. For ONE, MGTOW, ACTUALLY has a gripe, LOTS OF THEM. Feminism doesn't. Women are THE most privileged group on the planet. Yet the more special rights and privileges they get, the more oppressed they feel, and consequently the more oppressive they become.
Between the marriage laws, the outrageous narcissism and entitlement bred into women, the marriage contract is a suicide pact for men.
IF the church REALLY cared about marriage, they would be doing everything in their power to RESTORE it. The definition of marriage was bastardized and apostate LONG before homosexuality got grafted into it by SCOTUS.
If you guys are _still_ going to cast this as "women most affected", then count me (a woman) out.
LOL. It's truly STUNNING, isn't it?! It shows just how controlled most pastors are by that Jezebel spirit. It's a scary one. It had Elijah running with his tail between his legs, ready to end his life, AFTER a HUGE victory. All it took was a word from that demonic stronghold to send him running for the hills.
Rush used to joke back in the day, that the liberal media would run a headline "World to end tomorrow, women and children, hardest hit!"
BUT, I Kid you not, I DID see an article, written by a woman, that claimed war was hardest on them, because THEY were the ones that had to deal with their husbands dying in battle.
YEP! You heard that right, Even when a man lays down his life for his woman, she STILL has it hardest! LMAO!
When you call romantic novels female porn, you get a lot of blowback, well it's sa not explicit like the stuff men watch. Women respond to words and men to visual. Yet nowadays all a man has to say is I love you and a women will swoon and sleep with him. So the methods may be different but the deception is the same.
There is one BIG difference between them. Real people (children) are not being trafficked, sexually abused, exploited and traumatized in romantic novels.
Saying I love you gets you the box? What planet you living on? Your definitely a virgin
Ya think?!?!!
I love how they fear Mgtow.
This says the LORD...The Churches have had all their candlesticks removed. They are scattered towers just like the tower of Babel aftermath. You all speak languages over another and none can understand each other. You're all divided because of your traditions and desires to sit in the Seat of Power and Authority and reject what is True that I have given. I gave you the way through my son and you've rejected it all and forfeited The Kingdom and My gift of Eternal Life for temporal religion. Repent and follow My Son and come back to your First Love before I come upon you all and give you your portion with the Wicked.
You guys are x2 very very Brave Men!
Thanks 🙏
Man...I want to comment so badly...but no. Well done gents.
I would offer a small challenge.
You get a couple into a pastors office for counseling - you hardly ever see the pastor start by probing into the man as a leader of the failing marriage.
Because the wife seems desperate to save the home... she is more receptive and open to the advice - give him more. Serve more. Love more. Pray more.
These things are true - yes!
But as I’ve studied the bible it is clear that man is the initiator and woman the responder. We are these by design. When we fight this design we are unsuccessful.
How often does the pastor take this approach?? In the garden, God started with the man.
It’s harder yes, because most women (as responders) are also pleasers and will eagerly lap up the advice and try all remedies.
The man, often unaware of any problems, has a further journey to go as well as a higher burden of responsibility.
I find pastors don’t tackle this challenge of teaching husbands.
I’m not saying always, but it’s a trend in church for sure.
I have been doing pastoral counseling for over 40 years. What you are describing is very rare. As often as not, Christian women are having affairs or being abusive and wanting to end the relationship. The women initiate divorce more often than men and they often do so for the reason that they are not being--as they say--"fulfilled" in the marriage. I have seen some very sad and petty things from Christian women.
@@bestpossibleworld2091
I don’t want to pit one sex against the other. I’ve just noticed a missing piece of the puzzle in counselling.
In my humble opinion, when a couple comes in for counselling the husband holds key to initiating a new course. I’m only saying that’s where it needs to start.
Women have a great propensity to grow bitter over time, finally enraged. And that’s not a pretty sight, I agree.
Having had experience in the counselling world, I’ve experienced a lot of pressure on women to submit more etc.
Maybe that’s a reflection of my denomination.
Anyway, I appreciate the validity of your comments. Women over time can grow very terrible in attitude.
I still would posit that our churches have not taught our man what it means to lovingly lead in marriage. Christian men too often fall into the ditches of passive shlump or angry tyrants.
And, as man is created to be the initiator, I believe starting there, with the man, will smooth out a lot of issues and pave the way to address the woman’s issues as well.
I’d like to hear from other women on this, I could be wrong in understanding the typical marriage counselling scenario.
@@laurakosch I would agree with you. Among my Christian friends it's the wife who wants her husband to lead and he's often caught up in porn or something. I don't think the husbands know what they're supposed to be doing. I will say that my friends are the homeschooling, large family types so it may be different for other types of women. I think going to a more traditional church where roles within the family structure being clearly defined would help. And where the leadership values and can wisely support strong families.
It seems like men drift along with the culture more than women also. My mother never wanted to have television in the home but my father insisted. I feel that watching it corrupted her in a way as well. Most of my female friends want to have a more simple life and a return to tradition but their husbands enjoy movies, tv and internet as a big part of their lives. How do you have time to teach the scriptures to the family when the tv is on all day and night? ....sorry for the rant :/
@@Sara-hy1ru
thank you for adding this!! I appreciate your rant :)
While no woman is ever ever justified in having affairs etc, they usually stray (wrongly) from frustration more than temptation to adventure.
And I believe that 80% of divorce is initiated by women as a final step in waiting for the man to appear and be present.
In fact, the man may be drifting along thinking all’s well but not realizing he is not only not leading, he’s not pulling his weight. He’s enjoying the comforts of home likely.
A man should see himself on a mission. The captain of his crew - with the loving support of a wife and a shared family vision. This is what the church should be somehow teaching.
I’ve studied in some depth women who stray, who turn viscous. Yes it’s ugly. Yes it’s wrong. Yes she’s sinful. But still the conversation must at least start with evaluating the leadership of the home. And then addressing the fallout.
Women carry the blame for their own behaviour - they are not victims.
But we badly need to sort out the men and help them restore their passion for the home.
@@laurakosch Great comment!
My oldest son got married about 2 years ago. He understands family roles. My big advice to him was - don't be passive! His wife is prone to anxiety from childhood issues and I told him to stay one step ahead of everything - finances, childrearing decisions, how to spend free time.... everything. And if his wife has concerns or fears to always address them. Even if her worries seem silly, just listen and tell you're working on it. That will help her learn to trust him and she can be free to take care of the home without big decisions on her mind. And she can be a happier, more pleasant wife for him - not having to worry things on her own. He is doing a great job so far.
I feel like every woman would like to have a man like this. My husband can be a little passive but he is coming around in his old age. It's so attractive when a man can boldly lead but do so in the best interest of his family.
Do these guys hear themselves? Just nom nom nom all i hear with each other's head up the other's azzzzz
No
you have to be pretty soft to be intimidated by Mark Driscoll screaming, trying to seem manly. His voice is so soft, it didn’t really come out in a masculine way. It was laughable. I’m sure he had good intentions but it seemed like a self centered response more focus on making himself look manly. But it didn’t work, God didn’t give him a many voice.
If a man loves Christ he will go to church. What does it matter if your church appeals to men if they are not born again?
John 21:16 Again Jesus said, “Simon son of John, do you love me?”
He answered, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.”
Jesus said, “Take care of my sheep.”
Pastors who don't take care of Christ's sheep don't love Christ. Those sheep include men.
@@OscarSchneegans i agree. I would say that its as much on pastors as it is on the lay men. We must be born again. There are to many church people and not enough saved ones. The Gospel is not appealing to anyone except through the Holy Spirit.
@@kenroc546 oh wow, more “man up” bullshit.
When are you jezebels gonna say something is “on women”?
Screw off harlot. Go take some responsibility.
Wow. Jesus came to save the sinners, not the righteous lol. Maybe you should read the Bible a bit more closely.
You're either out to help Jesus save sinners, or you're not. I guess the modern occidental churches aren't interested in that. 🤷
Go ahead and attend a Church possessed by the Jezebel Spirit, and that of the Anti-Christ...
Yes, it is!