Can You Hear A Difference Between Subwoofer Amplifiers? ~ JBL Crown VS Taramps!?
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- Опубліковано 20 сер 2024
- I've wanted to see how different sub amps sound for quite a while now, and i couldnt let this opportunity pass! This isnt a definitive result, lots more tests will need to be conducted with a variety of different variables, but I found this pretty interesting. I hope you do too!
Man gotta love how far you will go to answer the deepest questions in our passions
I agree
Just brilliant!💞
I agree, Sam does not get the respect he deserves imo. I will continue to share his videos the information he offers and support as much as I can.
@@BeSome1 wanst saying anything about him not getting it I was trying to express my adoration and respect out how hell bent he can be to make the impossible a reality
@FUCK D S S I understand. I personally see people in the audio community, that share information put forth by Sam without sharing his content or promoting his services.
Great test!
I think this does a lot to prove that the human mind can play a lot of tricks on you...
Having the amp setup properly (eq, slopes, and all that stuff I don't understand) is probably the major difference contributing to any sense of an amp being cleaner or whatnot... You can setup a great amp to sound like garbage, but when you set them up identically as you had done, it is really hard to tell, especially with low frequency.
Great work!
This was the best car audio test I’ve seen on YT in 15 years or so of watching! Phenomenal idea and test! A couple of point: First, listening test would need to be a relatively low volume in the vehicle since cars flex and add non linear distortion at higher volumes. Second is the enclosure type; bandpass enclosures mask a lot of the subwoofer sound. I think the test would be easier in a good ported or even sealed enclosure. Thank you for this!
Bass On!
-Wizard-
Very interesting, you are one of the few people that could perform this test and have a validity.
For years people have been arguing back and forth about this with the only true test being a blind A/B test. Sam did that, and people still refuse to accept the fact that they sound similar. I could somewhat believe it for mid range and high range amplifiers but the inherent damping in the sub stage is so high much higher I can't see it making a difference absent a terribly designed amplifier vs one properly designed. I don't think anyone has taken Richard Clark's $10k yet.
This!
Richard Clark does indeed still have his 10 grand.
I've got a Klipsch 15" driver in a custom box, and am running it off of a Planet Audio amp I bought for literally $10. And it sounds beautiful--so long as the amp is getting enough power and not being over-driven. So this test pretty much confirmed what I've been thinking, although finding it hard to believe. Of all the potential benefits that a more expensive subwoofer amp can give you, sound quality is not necessarily always one of them.
I honestly hear more difference in the sound when I swap RCAs---between a thin, cheap pair, and a thicker (probably shielded) better quality cable. It's louder and clearer with the better cable. Likely mostly due to just larger conductors in the wire, so more copper to pass the signal (although pre-amp signal is still only 1-2 volts, so just how thin does the conductor have to be to start squelching a 1V signal?)
Info on Richard Clark and $10k?
I had a T1000 Fosgate amp and sold it to a friend and later on I got the budget Prime 1200 Fosgate amp and there was a big difference in sound , nothing changed just the amp on two Punch Hx2 and they sounded like mid bass driver instead of subs , the T1000 made them sound really deep with thump
Nothing I love more than A/B comparison in audio. I thought there was going to be a little bit of a difference so, this was eye opening. Thank you for doing this 🙌🏼
The JBL is just so nostalgic… Especially if your from that era. As far as the numbers go I would die if on a scope the other put out a cleaner signal even if you can’t tell the difference on bass. They were rating these amps at .05% THD and that’s crazy !!!
Back in the day it was a massive step forward, i swapped out 2 hifonics colossus's mk11 for the a6000 and it sure got some attention ... not had a big system in 20+ years and seeing this has made me want to have another go
When you're getting into serious wattage and bass, I agree with you, the sound would be the same. Musicality normally comes from less power and obviously over 80hz. Great test! It shows that as long as the amp is reliable, no one will know the difference.
Been waiting for this test for a long time. An amplifier takes a sine wave as an input, amplifies it, and sends it out as an amplified sine wave. Theoretically, every amp should sound the same regardless of the amplification circuitry. I've been saying this for years, but naysayers believe that the Brazillian/cheaper amps are inferior to their Koren/expensive counterparts. Maybe in other ways, such as build quality, protection circuitry, etc. But when it comes to sound and all parameters are matched up (crossovers, eq, gains, etc.), it should sound the same. Thank you for putting this to the test and proving it!
Awesome test Sam. Another test you could do on this one, is test the difference of the reactive load between the two amps across a frequency spectrum with no EQ adjustments at all, completely flat and only a filter from the source.
The roll of and amplification numbers would be interesting between boards
@@FUCKDSS yeah it would. Be nice to see each circuit’s design strengths and weakness on the output section between these two. Frequency sweep plot with the load static, and reactive on a chart plot. See what’s the power difference with the output section on a graft. I can probably say most would go with the Taramps because of the head room off top, and why wouldn’t you. Thing is with the JBL, the lower you go in resistance, the less power you get where the Taramps gets more power lower you go in resistance. So by circuit design, the JBL naturally rolls off. So those that like low resistance wiring, would buy the Taramps, where if you’re planning a high rising enclosure, the JBL would give you more wiggle room with enclosure design and forgiveness. My 1st personal 13.5w7 and my JBL BPx2200.1 coupled with a 3.75 cuft enclosure tuned to 31.5hz rippled my 91 civic roof at a 3ohm load rising around 3.5-4.5 I think… big box. It’s an amp that likes to run high voltage, low current. Keep it between 2-4 ohms, and enjoy a bowel massage. Classic amp to this day. Wish I could get a JBL A6000GTi….. or a second BPx2200.1. Legendary.
Filtering was done on dsp he even said on video
I thought at first the Taramp had lower bass,but I can't tell. Best video I've seen on youtube. Thanks!👍
That switcher box you threw together is super dope, They make those for guitar amps in recording studios for ridiculous money!
Great video sir. I remember when companies back in the day, like JL Audio, Kicker, and Rockford Fosgate used bridged amps labeled under their "sound quality" lines.
Great comparison. But for a final result I miss a comparison on dynamic music like a well recorded drumset to test the impulse fidelity of both amps. I could imagine, that this could be the turning point.
Next video I think 😁 I need some royalty free stuff for that. Wanted to get this video out before customer collects next week. I have some other interesting and wildly different amps I can test this with tho ☺
And to see how certain noises change throughout different amps, how filterless amps perform, basically to see if amps perform as the data sheet provided say especially the distortions and noise levels.
Amazing test with the relay and oscilloscope
Killer content Sam! This is a great real world example highlighting how misunderstood the term “clean power” is in car audio (and in general). BTW, the internals of that JBL are pure electronic art.
Fun video! I know it was a lot of work. Really enjoyed it 👍
Awesome video mate! Thank you for using your mad technical skills to bring light to one of the most heated car audio questions! Much love and respect. Cheers!
I'm so glad u did this cause this is all we hear about half bridge Korean amps sound so much better than a taramp Brazilian Wich I know it's not.
Much respect for spending so much time engineering a good switching scheme for this!
Its been reported numerous times before that people can't hear the difference between two amplifiers as long as they are gain matched and don't have audible distortion (which is fairly high for subwoofers)--even when people purport to have strong preferences. Thanks for catching the phenomenon on video along with your continuing contributions to car audio which support good engineering over superstition
This was a good test. I was warned before getting the Taramps Smart3 that they don't sound the greatest, this is mainly due to the 90hz low pass as some vocals can make there way through but if you use a DSP you can filter it out & honestly it sounds just as good as my JBL 14001 GTO. Now this is where i found the JBL was better at lower frequencies & that was when using soft suspension subs (more suited for sealed box) in larger ported enclosures where sub & box dampening is very low & found the JBL was 1db louder on the same power on that same frequency. I repeated this test on a Sundown X-8 to find both Taramps & JBL were identical in db which leads me to the dampening ability the amps have to control the cone near Xmax & since the X-8v3 has stiff suspension & high motor force it was less likely to loss control near Xmax. Take this with a grain of salt though as i haven't tested near enough gear to prove consistent results.
about time someone finally compared full bridge to half
I don't think that's what he was testing, that was just a coincidence. It's long been known that the amplifier topology doesn't make any real difference as far as full bridge or half bridge.
Very nice, There is plenty of controversy in my area about the sound being different between the Koreans and the Brazilian amplifiers. I think you just proved that it's more in the tune, enclosure, and other variables That determine the outcome in sound quality...
I still am in absolute love with my big Korean Salt8s, but I'm less bias now towards possibly going full bridge in the future. Thanks for all your great content man!
As a career electronics tech and car audio dabbler this is my new favorite channel. Thank you
This video isn't getting the justice it deserves! Great job man!👏👏👏
It's always been my opinion(Real world experience, not so much circuit understanding) the biggest difference between amps are the crossover filter section. If you use a DSP and you are not relying on the amps crossover.. Then you probably will never notice a difference between any amp for BASS. I imagine on mids you could tell between a quality A/B amp vs cheap class D.
I’ve ran skar, taramps smart 3k (currently) and a few other amp brands and my taramps sound just as good as the others before considering my skv2 amps I had did have a warmer sound not to mention 24db/octave crossovers. Awesome video! I’d be interested to see full bridge taramps amps with 24db/octave crossovers.
Im willing to bet it was the crossover differences that made it sound like the skar amp had a warmer sound but in reality it didn't
@@scottbe1 Korean amps have better damping factor that’s not arguable. When you compare 2 amps with 12db/octave crossovers built in and you put up an amp that does 24db/octave you’ll have a sound difference.
Sam this is a great test, they are extremely close although the Crown sounded a hair tighter or more controlled this said the cost and size of the Taramp would totally negate this and that would be the Amp I would have chosen FTW.
I think it has to do with that 6th. Cuz it goes through 2 ports so whatever differences it does have it will be "filtered" through the 6th making it more close sounding. Would be cool to see sealed box comparison - my bro in law Kori L.
I was thinking just this. In a pure sound quality a/b test with a sealed or horn driver there may be a audible difference.
Excellent video! I love the lengths you went through to ensure the best possible result. I tried with headphones and with my surround sound and the differences were imperceptible on my end. I have recently been running full bridge in my ride and have been happy with the sound vs the standard class d or ab amps I’ve run before.
Wuzup Hifi? Just curious. What full bridge amp are you using may I ask?
@@drrckhamilton Soundqubed U3000
@@HifiVega
Oh ok, nice. Thanks man. Appreciate your content
I would be curious to hear them set up in a sealed set up with music better recorded. But I applaud you for making the video. Do a class d verse class ab on highs next.
Awesome test! Been running Soundigital for a few years now and the only way I could tell the difference from my old AB and the Soundigital was the SD had loud cooling fans. LOL
This was a very cool and much needed test for the industry. Thank you for taking the time to do this, and to share it with us!
Much props to that switching rig! This is the scientific approach for sure. I trust this science.
Always been a huge fan of JBL, and I respect anyone's opinion, but I gotta say they sound exactly the same. What I'd really love to see is the same test performed between class AB and class D. Nice work, my friend! 👍
I was thinking of this one next! 😁
Amp 2 sounds just a hair boomier than amp 1, but such great execution for this test. Kinda reassuring if I'm honest because I went from a JL RD400/4 to a Down4Sound JP84 and then tried a Mosconi as100.4 and honestly, the differences were marginal and you wouldn't believe how many people were calling me out online lol
Awesome test, I really enjoyed the video and the unbiased comparison!
Also, 0:48 was really funny :D and I love how happy your mate is just listening to the sound system
Guessing amp 1 is taramps, amp 2 is crown. Sennheiser HD600, dekoni semiperf pads, class A solid state headphone amp, good motherboard line out
Amp 1 sounded more hollow, amp 2 sounded more full/deep. I'd hazard a guess less rail droop in the crown means a pointier/more defined top of the sine, and the taramps had a more rounded top which would cause it to widen the Q of the tone, though these weren't at high level/high current draw so eh
Your knowledge is impressive, not only that but skill in fabrication/repair. Wow
Another test you can do is current draw vs output db , on the two amps to see.
Could maybe do a db drag style test too . See how they handle being pushed to the limit
Yes you can IMO. Sometimes the lower frequencies sound fuller and more rich on certain amplifiers versus others
Hmm.. doubt it. Like, a lot.
You're saying you can hear a difference in these two amps or two other models of amps?
@@JasonWW2000 I've been wrong before. Not the first time. Won't be the last lol
I agree. Cheaper circuitry or less in build quality most times you get what you get
I have notice that too... I swapped between taramps Smart 3, nemesis audio 3k and jp23 V2. All playing the same 2 songs. Slow motion by juvenile and B-legit's M.O.B... this song you can really tell taramps could not deliver the impact in that department you have to literally set the LP on head unit to 40hz in a -6 db slope just to reach that sound.. also in slow motion it was the same result again taramps to nemesis.. now taramps compared to D4S jp23 V2 you just really get the clean no noise on the remote turn up and cleaner sound ( that's all I remember from JP amp compared to taramps Smart 3) it does also sound better frequency response compared to taramps. You really have to actually listen to music music to know the difference not decaf or bas boosted songs..
The very first track was a bit quieter and it had a pretty clear difference from both amps, whether its due to spl, or distortion, or eq, its hard to say. I preferred amp 1. The rest of the songs I couldn't hear any difference, listening with hd600 headphones.
Yep, I could hear it too with my headphones.
Taramps get a bad rap because they are cheap, so there are alot of IMPROPER installs using them. All equipment deserves to be installed by an enthusiast or shop who knows what they are doing and how to install equipment safely and properly.
Been watching you for the longest and nothing but respect 🙏 for you. When you talk is like being in class with Einstein.
Taramps welder! Awesome video Sam! Such a simple simple question but such a great Experiment
Very nice sam ! Very in detail and entertaining
Great video! I've been wanting someone to do a comparison like this! BUT, the one thing that I see as negligible but the haters are already yapping about is that the Taramps has been modified. They don't care that you said you threw it together with whatever FETS or other components you had laying around, that's their excuse for not believing this is an accurate test.
I'd really like to see the same test with a Smart 5k and an Orion HCCA or another high quality amp held in the highest regard that's more modern. Keep up the great content man!
I love and appreciate your work. Having been working in or enjoying car audio since the mid 80s, I have developed a deep appreciation for Korean half bridge amplifiers and a corresponding disdain for full bridge topography. Objective or not, I feel that in the 25 hz and below half bridge amplifiers are far more robust. I would love to see this comparison with a new md8k and a quality, say Crossfire or Synergy Wfo 8k. I would wager a noticeable difference especially in the lower basshead bass demo and Spl capability between the two. Keep up the great work!
You're playing one of my favorite songs. Never thought I hear you play here. Soul survivor
Fantastic video, it helps me understand more about the mental bias and personal dislike of some amplifiers.
I'm in love 🥰 I thought amp 2 was the crown.
Very cool vid Sam. I've had good luck with my budget amps and agree, it's largely about the signal you feed them.
This amplifier (TARAMPS HD 10000) is already obsolete here in Brazil, and has not been manufactured for many years. The latest generation amplifiers are from the Smart line, I have a Smart5 that has a lot of power. I already had a Smart3 that I bought in January 2020, sold to a friend and it is still working perfectly today.
I have 2 jl audio 12" w7's in a custom built transmission line enclosure. Woofers are both 3ohm, wired in parallel to 1.5ohm. I originally had a Taramps HD3000 and then swapped it with a B2 Audio Rage 2500v2 and I felt like I could immediately tell the difference. I have a DSP so I use the low pass filter on the DSP and had the low pass pots on the amp wide open. I feel the B2 gives a more pronounced punch like it has better dynamic control off the woofer. Its like you have that one song that you muscle memory of how the bass sounds and feels, then with a different amp, somethings just a tiny bit different. But now I'm wondering if its just a difference in power output levels giving this effect. The B2 definitely gets louder for me
Thats a really interesting result, that I wouldn't have predicted! It would be interesting to ensure the preamps are calibrated, and test them AB like this ☺
Next a blind test with modern class d vs old school class AB or even a big modern class AB as it’s still pretty much the same. And get one of them guys who never run class D to see if any difference can be heard
What I could hear seemed like amp 1 was cleaner crisper just slightly but also seemed like the tone may have been slightly lower as well. I’m listening on pretty decent home audio system.
After watching more of video now it changes on different songs and types of bass. I made first part of comment before first demo but after giving first demo I noticed it was a back and forth depending on song.
That was great to watch. Good comparison test !!
I think this is one where headphones might have been more revealing than being present in the moment. During the first test I noted that the first amp sounded a little warmer or smoother... cleaner? On my Soundcore headphones, anyway. I wasn't being punched in the chest by 150 DB's. Honestly, I think the issue is simple. If you are using the amps for what they are designed for - being really freaking loud... you can't distinguish between them. A good set of cans will do it, but not an in-person experience.
I know a guy with 5 of the 6000gti's, a T15k Rockford and plethora of old school ppi and many other amps all collecting dust. However he did bring a 6000gti to my house and we ran it on my 4-15" FI audio's from 08 and it did 155 with just the one gti, I had 4 Hifonics 2500 watt amps from 08 as well and the best it did was 152 on Termlab. It could have been a voltage and amperage thing as the Gti's will do rated power 6k all the way down to 9volts! It was most impressive.
the 6000 jbl crown is a monster!!!
wouldn't have believed it if I didn't see it. this is a game changer.
Great video! I think it would be possible to find a difference between lets say JBL and some knock-off amazon amp, but above some price point its really just about which amp suits you the most and will be more reliable over the years
I guessed right. I think what I'm listening for is the roll-off at the end of each note. As far as hearing better quality, that's completely negligible. They both reproduce sounds similarly, but I'm definitely hearing the roll-off. You can especially hear it whenever you're doing the hair trick.
I could hear a slight difference in Crispness in amp 2 over amp one. I was wearing headphones It wasn't louder it was just more defined And my guess amp number two would be the JBL
I think a lot of the actual argument about these amps, the ones mostly coming out of Brazil and China from what I understand, and 'dirty power' comes down to THD+N, clipping points, and what the ramp up in power looks like on a dyno. Granted a dyno is a static load cell that doesn't represent a dynamic speaker, though this is how they're rated in the first place, but if you watch some dyno tests there are times where they don't 'cleanly' ramp up, they'll get hurdled at a value then jump to a higher value, rather than following a slope. Assuming they also follow this behavior dynamically with a speaker, that means a sine wave is not going to be clean, for a hypothetical you might get a 30hz note at 115db and a second 30hz note at a 140db assuming the amp is extremely 'dirty' in output; and when playing music, you might get an accidental burp within a series of notes because of this issue, and the problem lies in if the amp overshoots what its otherwise set to put out. There's also an aspect of THD+N and clipping under these power spikes, especially if the amp is overshooting a set level, you could easily blow a sub or speaker just from a 'dirty' amp clipping the absolute hell out of an unforeseeable output spike. I.e., power consistency is the issue. Maybe it's not an issue with the HD10K, maybe it's not an issue with that series, maybe it's not an issue with Taramp's monoblocks, but IIRC I've seen some of their other offerings be jumpy, and I've seen other Brazilian brands have massive spikes in their jumps; at the same time I also highly question consistency, one reviewer's amp might perform well, another reviewer's amp might not perform well, a customer's amp might die within a week, another customer's amp might catch fire under normal use, other customers might have a fine experience, etc., all of these inconsistent experiences I've seen thrown around a lot, and bad QC is typically a sign of product quality in general. The problem with these kinds of tests, and even just reviewers dynoing an amp, is sample size of one product, you could have one of the best HD10Ks to come out of the company but the next customer could easily have the worst, this is why honest ratings, proper QC, and proper birth sheets are important as the only reasonable sample size is from the factory itself as a reasonable sample size will never exist in the wild; and sure, there might be a handful of bad amps among thousands, but this is also why sample size and consistency is important, because you hear a concerningly high amount of issues with these Brazilian brands to the point it has become a stereotype, even compared to the budget-oriented but not bottom of the barrel brands that are ubiquitous in the industry. Though on the topic of birth sheets, I have yet to see a company that does a proper graph rather than just peak output, and these graphs are also something I wish dyno setups would provide; and on that topic, I wish the dyno reviewers would just get a proper power supply instead of using a battery bank where the voltage is all over the place. I'm not saying Taramps as a whole is bad, I'm just saying that based on some samples of specific products I'd be suspicious about how clean their output is in terms of consistency and coming up to a power rating, not in tonal aspects; though how often does a sub amp have tonal differences anyways, it's not like a mid-range or tweeter where people become pissbabies over A/B vs D tonal qualities or lack thereof. Also keep in mind the consumer side of it, if an unforeseeable spike in power does blow a sub, you not only have a bad amp but you're also screwed out of your money on a replacement or recone for the sub, and I feel like this point is where the 'dirty power' conversation was bred from as 90% of the community doesn't actually understand the whole THD+N, clipping, power ramping and spiking, etc. conversation; hell I wouldn't be surprised if the modern community would consider underrated amps as 'dirty power,' considering those used to be fairly abundant a couple decades ago, especially as these same people believe in turning the gain knob all the way up because '500w RMS' on the amp's box matches '500w RMS' on the sub's box.
There's also just the issue of music itself. A lot of people do not have a clean source in the format, nor do they have a clean source in hardware. A lot of absolute shitheads will run around spewing nonsense about this and that, yet they're streaming a UA-cam AMV to their bargain bin head unit; and on the opposite end of this, you have audiophiles that believe you need gold plated banana plugs with 16 cores of wire per channel, with a lossy rip straight from the studio, etc. Unless you actually have the equipment and audio library for it, you're losing a lot just within standard equipment and standard practices, and that's entirely fine, but that nuance also needs to be factored into the conversation.
Also, I'm not sure if you did this, I skimmed your videos and didn't see anything, but I would've loved to see a full comparison of the circuits between the two amps. What's good design, what's iffy design, why the JBL has so much pre-amp and the Taramps presumably doesn't, power supply design, etc., along with some discussion of if JBL made that same amp today how it could be reduced in footprint just due to how things have evolve, and maybe some discussion about the size difference in power supply designs between half and full bridge amps assuming the most apples to apples comparison possible for everything past the power supply.
So much is subjective.
Audio
Video
Photography
Lens coatings
Binoculars
Tires
Could go on and on
Humans are just biased one way or another.
We fool ourselves.
Great test!
I think for equivalent power, between two amps the difference would be hard to pick. Cleanliness and sharpness generally increase as power goes up, to the point where the amp can drive the sub like it's a tweeter. Of course, the RMS rating of the sub in conjunction with its moving mass will dictate this also, an overpowered sub can sound awesome until it hits its excursion limit or the voice coils let go.......😁
Hear me out, I like Korean board bass amps more than Brazilian's. The bass tone just feels and sound cleaner of that of Korean boards... Is it just me or others feel the same way?
So if you absolutely had to use taramps in a build with 3 or 4 solo x 15’s which model would you run and why? I have 3 and if I go taramps could get the 4th. I value your educated decision on this matter, as the energy you put into your videos and making it understandable to the lay person is next level. Appreciate any input. Edit 1 ohm dvc because that obviously matters in this question.
I love comparison videos like this one where people get surprised at what they think they are listening to.
I’ve always loved that JBL amplifier. Was a beast then and still is today. Although I prefer nano amplifiers but if I had a big sexy lorry, I’d put that JBL in.
Amazing test and it confirms the physics behind it. The physics being that the mechanical THD of even a high end subwoofer plus distortion added by the enclosure ports is going to far exceed the electrical distortion added to the input signal even by a cheap amplifier (assuming the amp is not being ran anywhere close to clipping). Even the highest end studio monitoring subs which are meticulously designed for the lowest possible distortion will have a few whole percent of it. So .1% vs .01% from the amplifier won’t matter. And being the subsonic range of music is such a narrow bandwidth of frequencies in the audible range, any color or character the amp is adding will not be perceivable. There just isn’t enough sonic information there. On high end full range speakers amps do start to make a difference, but only to an extent (excluding tube amps and/or amps with transformer coupled inputs or outputs) and the same factors about speaker distortion apply in smaller quantities.
Great interesting video...maybe smoothness can be detected on cheaper/lighter/more sensitive subs (which bassheads don't care to use). Raw power is Raw power... which is what is needed to move very stiff transducer(s).
Nice way of putting a myth to bed once and for all, thanks Sam!
I am wearing focal stella headphones and they did sound very close but was able to pick out the taramps as amp 2. Was just a tiny bit of slop, I mean TINY when the sub was asked to stop suddenly during a note. But dk if it could be heard irl.
Fun Video. But sinewaves really? will be hard to find any differences as long as no massive clipping occurs. My observation always was that the Crown is very strong on dynamic and reactive loads. maybee the speaker/box/car setup absorbs a lot of the differences. going with reflex and 4 DD9515D there was a large difference. (but maybee also because of the difference in current drwaw on the alternator system)
I can hear a smoother bass response from amp #2 on certain tracks....amp #1 is crisper on certain tracks
Love the setup! That switching is awesome, and I have some JBL earbuds with triple flange tips for optimal BASS response, the sound quality is great! No difference to me so far so good on both amps.
I would’ve liked to hear some more “audiophile” type music like acoustic jazz or something more “challenging” for the subs to reproduce musically than old school sine wave beat tracks. Great test!
I like how you started switching on time with the beat 😂
I owned an a6000 from new back in the day paired to 4 1800gti's iso .. it was a beast for the time.. doors were 2 kac1023 and 2 kac 823 with beyma mids and tops... great to see an icon being brought back to life .. a thing to remember it was based around concert amps, higher rail voltages so subs could be more efficient .. i fried my gti's twice on the hifonics, never on the a6000 but was running 0.5 - 1.2 db higher at soundoffs on the a6000
I think this should of been done with light weight 10’s. Now how to adjust the OL/UL knob on that input board
Man I'd love to hear that JBL playing some rock n roll lol!! Especially VS the TarAmps for the punch, depth, and clarity of a kick drum, and bass guitar.
JBl is junk you must be talking about crown
0:50 btw good welders (Miller electric, ESAB) put out extremely clean power, because dirty power gives you a unstable ARC that will sputter and fluctuate, poor ARC starts, and make it difficult to control the Heat (amps) that your putting into the part, that's what separates a expensive welder from a cheap one.
That's crazy how you got two different amps to dial in perfectly
Awesome test! I guessed wrong!!!! I just recently started running the md taramps series on my subs and I love it so far.
Well this was interesting to say the least. I ran an HD 3k, and a wolfram w4500 on the same subs. With the the wolfram adjusted to the same output voltage as the taramps. 2717 watts tested by my scope. On certain songs at 26hz they sounded the same. At slightly higher and lower frequencies you could tell the difference between the two. The Korean board definitely made the difference at lower frequencies where the taramps held better at above 40hz. Maybe just my settings but it was definitely noticeable at higher volumes. Maybe even the subs played a part. 4 - 8 inch d2 subs. Nice comparison though. I found an HD 10k on line and was a little leary on the purchase. Maybe next time I'll give it a go.
I think the HD's may do a bit worse at their maximum, maybe, if you ran the HD and Wolfram fullrange with crossovers through a dsp making sure the inbuilt crossovers etc cant change the sound i think they would be pretty similar
That will have been the fixed HPF in the taramps and the shallower LPF rolloff 😁 differences in pre-amp only. Can be corrected with a little eq or active filters!
@@BH4x0r I'll have to give this a try. I've got an lc2 I could use. Thanks for the suggestion
I'm listening on a pair on B&O EQ's and can just barely detect a difference when you were testing from 5:20 to 8:05. Even them it was just barely noticeable. Surprisingly though it was the TARAMPS that sounded better. It had a little bit more fullness to the sound and took longer for thr signal to completely cut off. For me I liked it, but for faster base lines it may have ended p causing issues. So as far as I'm concerned technically has gotten so good you should just go with what your budget can afford, because all the options available now are far beyond exceptional!!!
Same!!
What I noticed when you were doing the test from 9:50 on was that the taramps has more separation between the bass notes, and seems to have a little bit more distinction between the different notes time-wise, and has more slope in it's time signature, cutting the note off earlier.. whereas the jbl seems to keep the tone playing longer, therefore meshing the song together better in a way, making it seem cleaner with less effort. From then on i guessed each one correctly. Makes sense to me.
I’ve noticed with Korean it just has more detailed bass and better sound usually
One of your best videos. Thank you for this test !!
Imo hands down you can hear the difference between bass sound quality, I mean it comes down to the filtering but the difference between going from say an Alpine based system to a lesser budget based is crazy noticeable.
Agree on everything said and done bro, proper af. I guess you’d need a sound analyzer to see if/and how well the reproduced notes/tones actually are. Human ears suck for the most part and once the volume hits a certain point of loudness ain’t no one telling a difference lol, but as far as SQ at not vehicle vibrating to dust volume levels there’s def a diff imo.
Love that old school bass test music 😀 Great test. Even though it looks like we won't hear the difference, I would still like to see some more scientific ways of measuring the differences. Or test it in your SQ car.
It's pretty easy to guess the A/B differences. Especially when you know what to look for. One is just outputting signals in the simplest form. The other one has a much higher dampening factor and you can tell the tightness in octave changes. It's not sloppy like the Brazilian. And don't get me wrong, I'm rocking taramps 8k right now.... But would trade a kidney for that JBL amp!
There really shouldn't be any difference between class d amplifiers. In this video I do appreciate the extent to which you go to for the comparison, but I would've preferred a "flat" signal going into each amplifier instead of any source of digital signal processing. I believe that would've been a better representation of how each amplifier actually amplified the signal. Also I would've really liked to see a dircect comparison between class d and class a/b in both subwoofer and full audio spectrum. This was a great video Sam. One thing I am sure you already know is that "sound quality" is subjective and not everyone has an ear for audio. I do appreciate your efforts as do others. Keep up the great content.
A/B and D is coming. I didn't actually modify the signals to each amp at all here even though I was going to, because they were already matched. The reason it's important to calibrate the same signal level is because we are looking for differences in how the amplifiers sound, not how steep or shallow the crossover curves are, because you can always adjust that to your liking, whereas the inherent sound character, shape and tonality of an amp is permanent, so by getting rid of the pre-amp variable we will only hear differences between the amps themselves.
I'm predicting that the conclusion is that only efficiency, reliability, and power headroom matter
Sooo much love for this. Finally someone going the extra mile to test it. But people WILL argue against it because they don't WANT to believe this. They have to admit that they have been taking the wrong stand for so long...
I would say for bass it doesn't matter as long as the signal is clean but for mids and highs I would say quality matters as the human hearing is far more detailed at higher frequencies.
Bro you are on to something that could become the “ Guess that Amp” contest Event at shows
Best video you’ve made to date! Thank you!
The Taramps seems more responsive than the JBL. The sonic qualities of most of the expensive amps in the past trickle down to much cheaper amps nowadays just like how you have to buy a luxury car to have adaptive cruise control and lane keep assist back in the day but you can have it in a new econobox. Even my 400-dollar Sony mobile ES component speakers sounds just as good as some 2000 dollar component speakers. A Taramps would work not just for a grounding pounding SPL system but you could build a pretty decent low-budget SQ system with it too. Cannot go wrong with Kenwood Exelon speakers and a TS 400x4 if you want great sound on a budget.
The only way to maybe tell a slight difference is the dampening factor of each amp if 1 is really high vs low
Once EQ'd and gained to match and run within their limitations if you think you can tell two modern solid state amplifiers apart, have a go at taking Richard Clark's 10 grand.
That said, many years ago an audio forum user Taylor Fade did a "7K amp showdown" where the Crown pulled out ahead of many of the other amps that made more power on the Termlab. There may be something with high voltage translating into SPL.
I owned the a6000gti for a few years and while it was a really cool piece I can't say you can hear the difference... not like there's much "sound quality" above 150dB and below 80hz anyway.
What's the Richard Clark thing?
@@HashDogg06
It's a dude who nearly 20 years ago challenged anybody to hear the difference between any two modern solid state amplifiers run below clipping once each had been level matched and EQ'd to flat.