This week's video is another entry for the drum mixing series. There have been several requests for one on EQing toms, so that's what this one is. Here is a link to the Drum Mixing Playlist with the other videos: ua-cam.com/play/PLWtgwSNlxTjMsX8H1K87UcAP17zYSZqsT.html I did the demonstration section of this video a bit differently so I don't think there's a need in doing a "Narration Free" companion version of this like I did for the snare and kick unless people want one. Comments, suggestions, and questions always welcome. Feel free to share the link on social media. Thanks for watching! :) Patreon Page: www.patreon.com/AlanHamiltonAudio Amazon Affiliate Links- Sennheiser E604 Drum Mic on Amazon: amzn.to/3odIV4W Shure Drum Mic Kit on Amazon: amzn.to/2XBazO8 Shure SM57 on Amazon: amzn.to/3piy76E LP Claw Drum Mic Clamp on Amazon: amzn.to/39pJxjd Suggested videos: Five Tips For Better Live Vocal Mixes: ua-cam.com/video/oP4sdpkkNhY/v-deo.html 5 Typical Mistakes Behringer X32 and Midas M32 Users Make: ua-cam.com/video/tP7dO2Za6bw/v-deo.html 5 Typical Mistakes Behringer XR18 and Midas MR18 Users Make: ua-cam.com/video/EilVDp39A9g/v-deo.html How To Use The Behringer Combinator: ua-cam.com/video/6_5Wn-5Y42k/v-deo.html How To Ring Out Monitors: ua-cam.com/video/pu0xjl0rpMU/v-deo.html How To EQ A Snare Drum: ua-cam.com/video/gITnB0hQ9as/v-deo.html
I'm practically a newbee in the "mixing world" but I learn a lot from your video's. You just don't tell a lot, you show your knowledge and skills by not only visually demonstrate but also let us hear what's going on when a feature of the mixer is being applied. That's why I like your video's so much too and subscribed months ago! Thank you for your efforts! Keep up your good work! (By the way: Had no issues playing this video on my Windows 10 desktop)
Very spot on for a drummer like me who record drums which I do know how to eq compress add efx and mix this Is very helpful and makes sense then other tutorials not doing It right
Hopefully this video is playing OK for everyone now. There seemed to be an issue when played on the desktop for the first couple of days. At least I was seeing an issue with it stalling on ads and needing additional play pushes, and then none of the links or the subscribe watermark were showing up. But I contacted YT and either they fixed it, or it sorted itself out. It seems to be fine now (as of last night and now again today). LMK if anyone else is having issues.
Thanks! This is a topic I have on the "to do" list. I haven't really sat down and thought of a good way to present the information since there are really at least 3 major ways to approach it depending on whether it's a live or studio setting, and whether it's more of a 'natural' method or more of a 'modern' method (think: Jazz vs Rock/Modern Country... or somewhere in between).
New sub here, I’m looking at getting either a Midas mr18 or berhinger xr18 , these videos are great! Which mixer would you recommend? It’s for potential live use if we ever manage to get back gigging again ....!
Current pricing has the MR18 at 599.00... Like only 40-50.00 more than the XR18. So, you get the upgraded pre's and a 10 year warranty for 50.00 more. At least that's what it was the last time I looked at Sweetwater. While there might be some argument how much you'd notice the preamps in a lot of live settings, there's not much dispute the MR18's are usually more preferred, and add in that 10 year warranty, and it's an easy decision right now. Thanks for watching! :)
Great video. This is how I EQ live drums and it works. I have a quick question. Do you gate your drums when you set up for live sound first and then EQ or do you do that after EQ? I personally don't know if it makes a difference if one is before the other or not. I'm curious what your thoughts are. Thank you in advance.
I usually start with a tom preset and the gate is already enabled... so unless there's something really wrong in the starting EQ, I loosen the gate so it's not doing much. Then I fine tune the EQ on the tom, ...and then fine tune and tighten the gate. So, technically, I'm doing the gate second I guess, but it's sort of being done at the same time in a way too. Especially since one thing can affect the other. I'm usually not using the gates to shorten the toms (unless the drums are tuned really poorly). I'm using them to keep the other stuff out of the tom mics.
It's been a while but likely was Steven Slate drums. One of the less processed kits to allow for a bit more aggressive settings. If you want to hear the process played out with a full band, check out this video: ua-cam.com/video/k2wgnPQI_is/v-deo.html The room mic on the camera is not exactly representative overall, but I switch away from that in certain points to the console recording which is a much cleaner listen. So there's a bit of context and reference as the video goes along.
I almost always use a gate on kick and toms. Rarely on snare, and moreso on a bottom snare mic if I do. Ghost strokes that a lot of drummers use makes it a bit challenging to gate a snare in a live situation and not lose some of those. ...Unless it's something like big band/jazz. Then no gates are more the norm. But I'm more (usually) using the gates to keep other things out of the drum mics rather than trying to reshape/shorten the drums. But, that depends on the drum tuning. If there's a droning tom, then I will be gating that to do something about the length of that tom. That said, without an engineer listening to what it happening during performance levels then it gets tougher. Hopefully the drummer tunes the drums well enough that the only thing gating is mainly doing (or wanted for) is just keeping other sounds out of the drum mics. Just so there aren't a bunch of open mics onstage. So they are gated 'most' of the time, except when that particular drum is being struck. At that point, and with no engineer, you can be a bit conservative since you're not trying to kill a droning tom with a gate vs drum tuning. Maybe the gates open more than they should, but overall are closed. Maybe every drum gate opens with a snare hit and you can live with that if you have to. What you don't want is the drummer having to change their playing style and really HIT the drums hard just to open a gate when they play. On a mixer/gate with frequency selective gating, you can set the gate to open on a more of a selected frequency range. This lets you dial in the threshold a little more conservatively, yet the gate be closed when it needs to be closed. The full signal still passes through the open gate, but the frequency setting tells the gate what sound/frequency to open on. So you can set it so 80Hz of the kick opens the gate but 1K of the nearby snare won't open the kick gate. Or 100Hz opens the toms gate (which the tom likely produces) but not the ting of the ride cymbal that is not likely doing much of anything at 100Hz.
Vocals, I've touched on EQ in the 5 Tips For Better Live Vocal Mixes video: ua-cam.com/video/oP4sdpkkNhY/v-deo.html I keep planning a bass guitar EQ tips video, but just have never gotten around to it. Things like electric guitars, I tend to not do much EQ work except for the use of the HPF and opt to tweak the mic position first. Of course, sometimes something just needs cut, or something (usually low mids) just needs a bump to fatten a thin guitar sound.
A few things... One, gating would really need to be an entirely different video, or a second part. There are many things to consider, including subjective things and technical things. Genre, drummer, style, how well the drums are tuned overall, etc... So, that leads to the second part: A well tuned drum, played well, doesn't even necessarily need gating. If the natural sound of the drum is nice and round, not overly "Boingy" and uneven, and it fits the music, there's no reason to kill the decay of that necessarily. Of course, on the spectrum of jazz to speedmetal eventually that could change because subjective and genre enters that equation more and more. Also, here in 2021, automatically gating drums to shorten the decay has gave way to gating more to remove other things from the tom mics. So the gate's job is more to keep stage wash, cymbals, other drums, out of the drum channels and only open the gate when the drum is hit. So, IOW, keep the drum itself natural, round, with natural decay, but gate out things the mic would be randomly picking up when open but that drum not being played. Many drummers simply don't want their drum sound impacted, or overly impacted, by gates. And if they are tuning the drums for the genre of music they are playing, in a way that fits the band, and playing consistently within the dynamics of the music and what it calls for, then the gate needs to work with that, not fight it. Of course, there are some drummers, especially less experienced ones, where the drum will ring incessantly, with nasty overtones, and unevenness... and that generally requires a different approach over the natural approach. In that case, it IS time to shorten the decay of the drum(s) and rely more on the attack and initial few milliseconds of the drum's sound and not the following second or seconds of a nasty, pitchy, warbly ring. Long story short... This video would've lost its focus on EQ if it went into gating too. Especially, without spending a lot of time on gating and the subjective issues, and different approaches over time. And probably would've been best served with a drummer added showing us examples of good and bad tuning, and even examples of how they might tune/play/approach things differently depending on the genre and style of the band/music. Which is a good idea for a future video.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio Hello Alan, and thank you very much for what you do in your excellent videos, and for this detailed response. I was just suggesting using EQ to remove some of the ring, and not using gating. I use gating in exactly the way you discuss it in your reply, not for removing unwanted ringing. I worked a live event this weekend, and had to sound-check the drums very quickly, so was under a lot of pressure, but did have some ringing on the rack tom, which I quickly killed by notching the appropriate frequency using the parametric on it's channel. I had the kick and snare gated properly to avoid cymbal noise, and the rack tom, but not the floor tom. Sounded better without it. I do agree with you 100% that good sound starts with good talent, and a well-tuned kit, so fortunately I get to work with a lot of older cats that know their stuff. This last weekend though, I had a bit of a challenge with a very small kit for a live outdoor event, which was a surprise. Actually had to boost lower frequencies on just about every drum to get the right sound. Normally don't have to do that. Also, I was wondering if you had a video on how a person goes about hooking up the "virtual" or "robot" drum channels that you use to do a virtual drum check. I know it involves having a multi-track .WAV file, but beyond that, I don't know how this is done. I would love to be able to do this. Thank you for all of your help and guidance!
Most of time enginners have to use" drastiquely " gate and eq to eliminate ringings on tom but the result is that you have no more sound and you have to put a lot of reverb to enhance your toms'sound, witch is ridiculous! THE BEST THING IS TO HAVE WELL TUNED TOMS, WITH LOW END, ATTACK BUT NO RINGING.........A CHALLENGE !
This week's video is another entry for the drum mixing series. There have been several requests for one on EQing toms, so that's what this one is. Here is a link to the Drum Mixing Playlist with the other videos:
ua-cam.com/play/PLWtgwSNlxTjMsX8H1K87UcAP17zYSZqsT.html
I did the demonstration section of this video a bit differently so I don't think there's a need in doing a "Narration Free" companion version of this like I did for the snare and kick unless people want one. Comments, suggestions, and questions always welcome.
Feel free to share the link on social media. Thanks for watching! :)
Patreon Page:
www.patreon.com/AlanHamiltonAudio
Amazon Affiliate Links-
Sennheiser E604 Drum Mic on Amazon:
amzn.to/3odIV4W
Shure Drum Mic Kit on Amazon:
amzn.to/2XBazO8
Shure SM57 on Amazon:
amzn.to/3piy76E
LP Claw Drum Mic Clamp on Amazon:
amzn.to/39pJxjd
Suggested videos:
Five Tips For Better Live Vocal Mixes:
ua-cam.com/video/oP4sdpkkNhY/v-deo.html
5 Typical Mistakes Behringer X32 and Midas M32 Users Make:
ua-cam.com/video/tP7dO2Za6bw/v-deo.html
5 Typical Mistakes Behringer XR18 and Midas MR18 Users Make:
ua-cam.com/video/EilVDp39A9g/v-deo.html
How To Use The Behringer Combinator:
ua-cam.com/video/6_5Wn-5Y42k/v-deo.html
How To Ring Out Monitors:
ua-cam.com/video/pu0xjl0rpMU/v-deo.html
How To EQ A Snare Drum:
ua-cam.com/video/gITnB0hQ9as/v-deo.html
What about reggae kick and snare.
Great video! Just a suggestion - if you turn RTA on in the EQ settings you can see where your frequencies are for your tom
I'm practically a newbee in the "mixing world" but I learn a lot from your video's. You just don't tell a lot, you show your knowledge and skills by not only visually demonstrate but also let us hear what's going on when a feature of the mixer is being applied. That's why I like your video's so much too and subscribed months ago! Thank you for your efforts! Keep up your good work! (By the way: Had no issues playing this video on my Windows 10 desktop)
Thanks! :)
Slowly getting there with the xr18
You videos are helping me so much
Thanks bro and keep up the amazing work !
Thanks!
Very spot on for a drummer like me who record drums which I do know how to eq compress add efx and mix this Is very helpful and makes sense then other tutorials not doing It right
Thanks!
YOURE A GOOD TEACHER
Thanks for another relevant and useful tutorial. It's been added to my EQ cheat sheet. I second the tutorial/video on overheads and hats. Cheers!
Thanks! :)
That was so helpfully!
These videos are great! Thanks
Thank you
Great job bro, those toms sound beautiful!!!
Appreciate it!
Hopefully this video is playing OK for everyone now. There seemed to be an issue when played on the desktop for the first couple of days. At least I was seeing an issue with it stalling on ads and needing additional play pushes, and then none of the links or the subscribe watermark were showing up. But I contacted YT and either they fixed it, or it sorted itself out. It seems to be fine now (as of last night and now again today). LMK if anyone else is having issues.
Great vid man
Thanks!!
Hi Alan. Do have a video on how to eq overheads? Love your channel, learning alot. Thanks for doing this.
Thanks! This is a topic I have on the "to do" list. I haven't really sat down and thought of a good way to present the information since there are really at least 3 major ways to approach it depending on whether it's a live or studio setting, and whether it's more of a 'natural' method or more of a 'modern' method (think: Jazz vs Rock/Modern Country... or somewhere in between).
Alan, Make also a video, how to EQ overhead n hihat. Thank you.
Thanks! Added that to the notes for future video ideas/plans. :)
New sub here, I’m looking at getting either a Midas mr18 or berhinger xr18 , these videos are great! Which mixer would you recommend? It’s for potential live use if we ever manage to get back gigging again ....!
Current pricing has the MR18 at 599.00... Like only 40-50.00 more than the XR18. So, you get the upgraded pre's and a 10 year warranty for 50.00 more.
At least that's what it was the last time I looked at Sweetwater.
While there might be some argument how much you'd notice the preamps in a lot of live settings, there's not much dispute the MR18's are usually more preferred, and add in that 10 year warranty, and it's an easy decision right now.
Thanks for watching! :)
Great video. This is how I EQ live drums and it works. I have a quick question. Do you gate your drums when you set up for live sound first and then EQ or do you do that after EQ? I personally don't know if it makes a difference if one is before the other or not. I'm curious what your thoughts are. Thank you in advance.
I usually start with a tom preset and the gate is already enabled... so unless there's something really wrong in the starting EQ, I loosen the gate so it's not doing much. Then I fine tune the EQ on the tom, ...and then fine tune and tighten the gate. So, technically, I'm doing the gate second I guess, but it's sort of being done at the same time in a way too. Especially since one thing can affect the other.
I'm usually not using the gates to shorten the toms (unless the drums are tuned really poorly). I'm using them to keep the other stuff out of the tom mics.
Allen are the drums you are using electric? They sound like the Alesis Strike samlpes
DJ
It's been a while but likely was Steven Slate drums. One of the less processed kits to allow for a bit more aggressive settings.
If you want to hear the process played out with a full band, check out this video:
ua-cam.com/video/k2wgnPQI_is/v-deo.html
The room mic on the camera is not exactly representative overall, but I switch away from that in certain points to the console recording which is a much cleaner listen. So there's a bit of context and reference as the video goes along.
Do you recommend using a gate or expander for drums? Our church doesn’t have a mix engineer. Pretty much set and forget so I’m leery to engage them.
I almost always use a gate on kick and toms. Rarely on snare, and moreso on a bottom snare mic if I do. Ghost strokes that a lot of drummers use makes it a bit challenging to gate a snare in a live situation and not lose some of those.
...Unless it's something like big band/jazz. Then no gates are more the norm.
But I'm more (usually) using the gates to keep other things out of the drum mics rather than trying to reshape/shorten the drums. But, that depends on the drum tuning. If there's a droning tom, then I will be gating that to do something about the length of that tom.
That said, without an engineer listening to what it happening during performance levels then it gets tougher. Hopefully the drummer tunes the drums well enough that the only thing gating is mainly doing (or wanted for) is just keeping other sounds out of the drum mics. Just so there aren't a bunch of open mics onstage. So they are gated 'most' of the time, except when that particular drum is being struck.
At that point, and with no engineer, you can be a bit conservative since you're not trying to kill a droning tom with a gate vs drum tuning. Maybe the gates open more than they should, but overall are closed. Maybe every drum gate opens with a snare hit and you can live with that if you have to. What you don't want is the drummer having to change their playing style and really HIT the drums hard just to open a gate when they play.
On a mixer/gate with frequency selective gating, you can set the gate to open on a more of a selected frequency range. This lets you dial in the threshold a little more conservatively, yet the gate be closed when it needs to be closed. The full signal still passes through the open gate, but the frequency setting tells the gate what sound/frequency to open on. So you can set it so 80Hz of the kick opens the gate but 1K of the nearby snare won't open the kick gate. Or 100Hz opens the toms gate (which the tom likely produces) but not the ting of the ride cymbal that is not likely doing much of anything at 100Hz.
Thanks for taking the time to reply. Much appreciated!
T2 is the floor tom
And T1 is for rack Tom ?
Yes, T1 = Tom 1 and Tom 2 = T2 (2nd tom)
Where can I find the audio files to play with the EQ?
do u have a separate videos for Eq for vocals n instruments ?
Vocals, I've touched on EQ in the 5 Tips For Better Live Vocal Mixes video:
ua-cam.com/video/oP4sdpkkNhY/v-deo.html
I keep planning a bass guitar EQ tips video, but just have never gotten around to it.
Things like electric guitars, I tend to not do much EQ work except for the use of the HPF and opt to tweak the mic position first. Of course, sometimes something just needs cut, or something (usually low mids) just needs a bump to fatten a thin guitar sound.
Any reason why you don't eliminate the ringing from the rack tom?
A few things... One, gating would really need to be an entirely different video, or a second part. There are many things to consider, including subjective things and technical things. Genre, drummer, style, how well the drums are tuned overall, etc...
So, that leads to the second part: A well tuned drum, played well, doesn't even necessarily need gating. If the natural sound of the drum is nice and round, not overly "Boingy" and uneven, and it fits the music, there's no reason to kill the decay of that necessarily. Of course, on the spectrum of jazz to speedmetal eventually that could change because subjective and genre enters that equation more and more.
Also, here in 2021, automatically gating drums to shorten the decay has gave way to gating more to remove other things from the tom mics. So the gate's job is more to keep stage wash, cymbals, other drums, out of the drum channels and only open the gate when the drum is hit. So, IOW, keep the drum itself natural, round, with natural decay, but gate out things the mic would be randomly picking up when open but that drum not being played.
Many drummers simply don't want their drum sound impacted, or overly impacted, by gates. And if they are tuning the drums for the genre of music they are playing, in a way that fits the band, and playing consistently within the dynamics of the music and what it calls for, then the gate needs to work with that, not fight it.
Of course, there are some drummers, especially less experienced ones, where the drum will ring incessantly, with nasty overtones, and unevenness... and that generally requires a different approach over the natural approach. In that case, it IS time to shorten the decay of the drum(s) and rely more on the attack and initial few milliseconds of the drum's sound and not the following second or seconds of a nasty, pitchy, warbly ring.
Long story short... This video would've lost its focus on EQ if it went into gating too. Especially, without spending a lot of time on gating and the subjective issues, and different approaches over time. And probably would've been best served with a drummer added showing us examples of good and bad tuning, and even examples of how they might tune/play/approach things differently depending on the genre and style of the band/music. Which is a good idea for a future video.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio Hello Alan, and thank you very much for what you do in your excellent videos, and for this detailed response. I was just suggesting using EQ to remove some of the ring, and not using gating. I use gating in exactly the way you discuss it in your reply, not for removing unwanted ringing. I worked a live event this weekend, and had to sound-check the drums very quickly, so was under a lot of pressure, but did have some ringing on the rack tom, which I quickly killed by notching the appropriate frequency using the parametric on it's channel. I had the kick and snare gated properly to avoid cymbal noise, and the rack tom, but not the floor tom. Sounded better without it. I do agree with you 100% that good sound starts with good talent, and a well-tuned kit, so fortunately I get to work with a lot of older cats that know their stuff. This last weekend though, I had a bit of a challenge with a very small kit for a live outdoor event, which was a surprise. Actually had to boost lower frequencies on just about every drum to get the right sound. Normally don't have to do that.
Also, I was wondering if you had a video on how a person goes about hooking up the "virtual" or "robot" drum channels that you use to do a virtual drum check. I know it involves having a multi-track .WAV file, but beyond that, I don't know how this is done. I would love to be able to do this. Thank you for all of your help and guidance!
Most of time enginners have to use" drastiquely " gate and eq to eliminate ringings on tom but the result is that you have no more sound and you have to put a lot of reverb to enhance your toms'sound, witch is ridiculous! THE BEST THING IS TO HAVE WELL TUNED TOMS, WITH LOW END, ATTACK BUT NO RINGING.........A CHALLENGE !
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