Having moved from a Toft Audio console into a console-less situation (with 40 channels of standalone mic pre’s) several years ago, I anticipated this exact video the moment I saw your video where you installed that console. But, having a dozen IRL friends who have gone through this same thing, I’ve just learned that everybody had to go through the same process of realization for themselves.
We have a Harrison 950mx here and I don't know how I would get on without it. And this is an all electronic music studio. The console is just a large front end for a bunch of a hardware. 16 mono channels and 8 stereo. Stereo synths on stereo channels and mono synths... you get the idea. Each channel sent to either the red bus or the black bus. One bus is for recording stereo and one for mono. That's 3 channels total on our precious Mytek 8x192 AD/DA. I dont know how else I would this and save on expensive conversion. Channel counts on conversion add up in price pretty quickly. And we have a lot of synths. And outboard. Console has aux channels too so that saves on both latency and conversion channel count again. For things like Lexicon FX outboard etc. And I guess last but not least with the Harrison we get all analogue signal path to the monitors. Can hear the analogue synths in, well analogue. :) No conversion necessary when monitoring. I don't know how else I'd do all this. But if your use-case is split console like you said in the video then yeah you're stuck. We just use ours as a big input router and to save on conversion channels. Sure it has a nice sound but whatever. That's not even a consideration for us. All the best post console mate. Cheers.
The console in my old studio became our table. We only used it when we tracked drums, and even then we left it covered in everything because the pres and EQs were set. For day to day, I definitely don't miss it.
Really appreciate this, Andrew. It's SO helpful to hear your thinking behind getting and now selling your console. As well as Edwin's console. Rock on, brother. Keep us posted.
The struggle is real. I was using a 24 channel analog console for a long time and after I was done tracking I was fighting to work around it for everything else. Analog consoles with producers desks and automation are amazing but hard for many to justify. Depending on budget and what makes sense as a return on investment, anything ranging from the SSL controllers, to Avid S1, S3, S4 can serve a studio well. A lot of people complain that controllers are a big mouse and a waste of money. I feel ergonomics are so important and you'll work better, faster, and more efficiently with controllers, and it will show in your body of work.
What I like about analog console that I do not have to think what to adjust. I just do it. Fast and effective. Digital put me to "push and check" mode. It is just slow. I was thinking that a hybrid project with analog feel and digital engine can be gap-filler. but now we do not have such projects. They are simply two expensive. Motorized rotary encoder costs about 10-15$ And we would need: EQ: 6, Comp: 3: Gate 3, pan and gain: 210$ for 1 channel strip. 6000$ will cost only encoders for such 24 channel controller which give you a basic instant access to all channel parameters.
I’ve dreamt of having a real SSL since I first recorded on one back in ‘95 as a fresh faced 14 year old. It was mind blowing. But I genuinely wouldn’t have one now in 2024. I use an SSL UF1/UC1 and 2x UF8 along with 16 inputs of focusrite clarett and I’ve been fully in the box for 7 years now. It’s everything I could ever need. I love the old days but it’s just so much easier to get work done in the modern way.
A couple weeks ago I picked up my Presonus StudioLive 64S. I have 1/4" & XLR patchbays with all my outboard gear hooked up. I have a 20 channel snake for easy hook ups for inputs. For me I like having everything all hooked up and ready to go, plus the flexibility of what the console is capable of. I'm more productive than before and the console inspires me to create and get in the zone.
I have a small Presonus Series 3 and i totally get it. I have everything permanently connected and my DAW is configured so that it just works. I can walk into my studio, power it all up and write and record. That's how it should be. Painless.
I totally agree with your reasons. I’ve found that a really good solution for analog summing is the RND 5059 or 5057. It does the glue thing really nicely without having to have a console in front of you.
This is good insight! I just sold my API The Box 2 Console after a similar period of ownership. Decided to go all in the box for mixing and had enough analog options for tracking already.
That may be ok for people working out of their homes or just doin EDM, hip hop, rap., or just mixing. I would have a very hard time recording a 50 person choir with a live band or doing pre production work for national touring acts with just a mouse and a keyboard,
I'm very happy to see a true opinion of pros and cons in a hybrid system stated in such a lucid way. Today I find it very difficult to watch videos on UA-cam which people really expose the 2 sides, the joys and sadness, of working with a console. Congratulations on the video.
Consoles look impressive and can be useful in large multi-input tracking situations like recording bands and small orchestras but for modern computer based production, they are largely unnecessary and just get in the way typically. The solution to a producer desk in the middle of the console is not to buy a $100k console with a producer desk, instead just buy two small consoles, like SSL Big 6, and put them on each side of your producer desk. With higher end plugins, analog summing boxes, a high quality analog stereo mic / eq / compression / ADC channel strip combo, you can imprint analog goodness all over your tracks and masters without the bulky console taking up space in your studio.
I went to the Warm Audio preamp/ EQ set up like you had before the console purchase and I love it. I have 1 WA273 now and will be getting another one this year.
I love how when you said "The console is leaving today" Lil Man turned right around and looked at it. Shows he's familiar and learning studio terminology. That's so dope!..
at the studio i came up in, we were patching around as much of the console's circuitry as we could get away with, i never got nostalgic for the tone of the board because i was always fighting with the day to day changes in sound. since about 2010, all you really need are good mic pres and conversion and a solid monitoring setup.
Nice to hear your experience. I started like 30 years ago but didn't have the money to get good ADDA converters and ended up with a pro tools Mix with 882 system. THose were plain horrible converters. Later moved on to HDX, had a little more money and purchased an SSL4056E/G console. It had some automation and an old computer with floppy disks; It sounded pretty good and you needed to work a lot less hard to put everything on it's place. Then I talked with Bob Katz and he told me: dude, 882 suck, you want the best ADDA? Get a prismsound. So I got them on test and boy what a difference. In the end I sold the SSL and kept the prismsounds and worked in the box. SSL E are great but they are old and require constant maintenance. Not a month goes by and come channel has something broken. The send knobs have issues, the routing doesn't work due to bad contacts, sold the damn thing. I feel in the box tech is still not as good sounding as a top analogue console but with a little more work you can get there imo. You don't have the cables and as you say for productions without huge amount of live musicians it's perfect.
I've really enjoyed following your journey. I've got an analog console and couldn't imagine parting with it even though admittedly it can complicate things. Motorized faders make the HUGEST difference in how easily an analog console can mesh with a hybrid setup (per your point on automation), but unfortunately the barrier to entry with those can be significant. I know it's been done to a degree, but I really hope future console designs implement built in hybrid workflow more efficiently. Great work man.
👍you´re absolutely right ... thats exactly the same reasons for me why i had have kicked out the option for buying a ssl origin-16 to put in my room: it would be nice to have for summing & and mixing, maybe sometimes for tracking through it - but for most of all times it would be only an expenssive "cupboard" which is taking a lot of space in the room (and money from the account) ...
Dude I feel you. I got rid of mine too. Now it's preamps on the front end into my Dante network and the rest is done in the box mostly. I can still use my Dante converters and route it to outboard gear via Dante Controller.
This makes so much sense. Totally understand and being new to all of this, gives me perspective and helps me know what I should think about doing, opposed to what I might "want" to do. Thanks!
I had wondered how you were making use of it. I',m with you that my workflow is just such that a console (While awesome aesthetically and sonically) would just get in the way and cause more headaches than problem solving. Workflow is 100% key, so sacrifices must be made to ensure productivity is kept. Thanks for letting me live vicariously through you in having it for a limited time, but like you said, you never know you don't need something until you have it for a while and see. Cheers and looking forward to the new studio videos.
Awesome perspective on how the console workflow may not be for everyone. At the end of the day it is just another tool. The Audient 8024 has the option of producers desk and costs less than an API, Neve, or SSL. I’ve never worked on a big console, but did enjoy using a Tascam DP-01 before using a DAW; so I do miss the more tactile flow, and am not yet deep into automation. Anyways, looking forward to seeing the new studio and what new adventures lie ahead
Man I feel you, sold our console years ago and still miss the look of it on the desk that now just has controllers. But the function/routing/control and recall of modern digital tools is just too good to ignore.
I think we have all been through this at one time or another. Very interesting to see what works depending on needs, wants, ergonomics etc. Good Luck with the new studio!
Love the slow music "memories" sequence at the end. So touching. I totally understand where you are coming from and take the same approach to gear... if I'm not getting use out of it move it along. For me it's mostly swapping out synthesizers, but I've done similar things with preamps and, of course, that massive Sony MCI MXP-3036 console I restored. The lack of a producers desk was part of the issue with that console, but of course I built a custom shelf for keyboard/mouse and faderport. So I moved it along. To me a reason to keep a console like the Trident (or the Sony) would be if you want to standardize and really be familiar with your preamps and EQs. It's fun to have lots of choices, but it's quicker and easier to just have one good choice that works across all sources. And let's face it, you can record any source with a good preamp. You don't actually "need" an alternate preamp for vox, or drums or whatever. Having alternates is just a preference.
Since I bought it I've only been having problems that are never resolved with my Trident88 I will buy in the next few years API 1608 or SSL Never again a Trident you’re doing the right thing man!!!
My alma mater had the SSL 948. I loved that desk due to its duality to work Pro Tools. I'm in the post production world, but I do music for personal/fun. I currently do not have a board. I want to expand into the analog world (including a board), but space is limited...and this reassured me that 948 may not be ideal. I'm really looking forward to the next video/the new studio setup. Thanks for everything you share with us!!!
I actually spent the money on a StudioDesk Commander V2, and after a year of not using it that much, I've realized that my current 82" wide desk top can just be mounted onto a FlexiSpot standing desk frame, and now I have my work computer/studio computer with my Fantom 08 all under the same desk. No more moving back and forth from one desk to another. It was an expensive learning experience, and still trying to offload the studiodesk, but things run more swimmingly now.
When you got console, I have to admit, I was having console envy but my procrastination ended up being a virtue for once. Thanks for the reality check at your own expense. Hit me up next time you are in LA.
I've been mulling over the same thing in my home studio with an Avid C24. It's got the motorized faders, of course, but it really impedes workflow sitting in front of me on the desk, and I could easily get by with an S1 and dock these days. The C24 is also end-of-life, so it will only get more difficult to repair in the future!
i’ve always loved having a real analog console as well and it’s true they take up a ton of room! and if you have a small room to begin with it seems overkill. but, the summing and the consistent slew rate between channels for recording & mixing & the ability to split to different recorders like digital & tape is awesome. so i’m keeping mine! 🎉 i hear you though Andrew & completely understand. I’m sure you’ll get a Neve next 😂
Sounds like the right move. I think a board like that only makes sense in specific situations these days like you said. I bet it was fun to play with though!
good luck with your studio. I love hardware music gear and have a lot. it does get to a point where we have too many things. space and ability to focus is very important
I'm the opposite. I have the SSL controllers and NEVER USE THEM unless I force myself to. I use my cheap Soundcraft GB8 48ch console like crazy. Just cannot get used to controllers at all. Having said that, I have my entire mix room torn apart and rebuilding much like the last studio tour you produced this week. Console to the side, racks line the front and smaller roll desk in center with controller/keyboard/mouse. I am 99% of the time mixing and mastering however and only tracking occasionally.
Yes! I've come to exactly the same conclusion my self. Not that I had a large analog console, but I'm running with a X32 that does lot for me, but most of the space right in front of me gets hardly ever used. Good thing it runs partially as a DAW controller, but still. Therefore, I've started planning to build my own modular console. Similar to those old vintage consoles, but mostly DAW controller and space for mouse and keyboard in the center that gets most use regardless what I'm doing. On the sides it would be nice to salvage some channel strips from consoles and have other outboard that does what typical analog console does.
Something to consider... now that your console is gone, get a summing mixer so that you can still get the benefit of an analog summing buss while mixing in the box. They're rackmount so they don't take up much space, but give you the best aspects of an analog desk. Looking forward to seeing the new setup once you've moved everything. Cheers!
Okay so about two years ago I embarked on an all analog journey. I challenged myself to make an entire record using analog tape in some way or another. I anticipated using the tape to record and a DAW to mix. For the most part that’s what I did. Half way through, I felt like I wasn’t really working in the analog domain, I was just adding an extra step to my digital music. So, I bought a tiny 90’s 8 track board from Guitar Center for like $100 and made the record. I loved not using the computer until my final mix down so much, that I bought a 16 channel 1” machine and a Neve console, as well as a tone of other analog gear. I’m now working fully in the analog domain, I doubt I’ll ever go back to working with a DAW… However Im writing this so say, of all the issues I’ve run into that people who work in the box probably never think about, the biggest by far is absolutely having to own and maintain a console. It is by far the most annoying aspect of analog tape. I see so many cool hybrid mixing equipment (IE the NEVE centerpiece) that I’d love to try out, but I know I’d have no use for it. Anyways cool vid
I feel if you wanna get a console in this modern day, you need to get a hybrid console. I have had my SSL AWS924 for nearly 10years and still loving it. I can't imagine working without it.
When you installed that thing, I told myself you would swap it out within two years. I love a desk but the controller setup is just easier to rip through projects with. Best of luck
I have a basement (Weekend Warrior) thing going on. I got rid of my 24 Channel Digital Mixer/Console/Interface. I never used it for anything except an Interface and never used more than 8 channels at a time. Bought an 8 channel interface. Best thing I ever did.
For automation you could have added the Wes Audio NG Levelers. I added 32 channels of post processing automation for less than 5K. I did it at Mixing Music Analog
Sounds like you just need an SSL AWS 924 console. You can use it for recording, mixing, daw controller and it has recall! The only thing is that you won't have the space in the middle for the keyboard and monitor screen. Sad to see the console go 😭
I had a big inline console a few years ago and was in the same dilemma. I was relieved big time once i sold it because i didnt had to plan my moves in the studio. In the end its about creating music and for me music is spontanious freedom.
It's more expensive, but something like the modular mixers from Zahl. They can be specified / built to order, and you can add CV control. Pricey, but not as expensive as API. At the cheaper end, things like the Cranborne 500R8 are a nice solution too, or using more than one of them. Can mix and match preamps, EQs and comps. Build out to order, and acts as a monitor controller, summing mixer, audio interface. Especially in a set and forget context where you don't need or want to ride the controls. An 8-channel Cranborne 800R, packed with 8 CAPI pres, with outboard CAPI or other EQ could work.
Wow dude you have two real pultec’s…I have a small console SSL XDESK with eq’s, dynamics and Bus compressor just for bringing everything in a centralized location wired to my patch bay and out board gear. All controlled with my Avid Dock and S3
I was interested in the Trident 68, but really likely to go with Neve 8424 when can afford it if stil set on a console. Many producers love the 8424 and integration with existing outboard gear.
never had an urge to buy console and after watching your first videos with Trident I was seriously considering one… so watching this video is exactly how I would feel after wasting money on one… I like my analog instruments/digital effects, unlimited DAW channels setup and it would be really hard/expensive to replicate fully analog
Very interesting point of view. You'd better have many different preamps and EQ in a rack and a nice producer setup inyour case. Good luck with your relocation!
There's so much more to this comment that I'm leaving but... I have a Tascam DM4800 console that is a digital studio console and it's freakishly able. I can run at up to 96k. I has 24 busses and option cards that can get you into the 2020's interfaces. I use it with Burl converters and a motu 112D interface. The Motu is the gathering point of my digital universe. The tascam is a control surface, an actual mixer when I need it. It's multi layered beyond all functions. I do nearly all my inputs digitally through the Tascam into pro tools. The tascam gives my 24 inputs and I use an additional 8 for sundry stuff I don't necessarily need to monitor all the time during tracking. Cymbal mics, aux room mics, etc. The Motu has a routing matrix that gives me a ton of options, the console has more options. I can print multiple sources together if I want. I can eq stuff on the board if I want. I can use compression on the board if I want. Is it spectacular? No. Is it totally fuctional? Absolutely. Unfortunately they abandoned this line of consoles in 2014 or so but wow, they are powerful. Did I mention a full control surface layer and transport controls? Well, it has it. Could it be better. Of course. Does it get the job done and then some? Absolutely. I'd love some influencer to get the ear of some company and truly complete the product that an amalgam of companies have been nibbling at.
I used to have a couple of different digital consoles over the years - DM3200, 01v, 02rs, this was like 15 years ago. For me, my workflow, the DM3200 got in the way. The Yamaha stuff I dumped when Yamaha killed mLAN by not making 64bit drivers for the new OSes.
@@NuclearDeathWalk for me, the dm4800 is just plumbing and the control surface. While it is connected to the computer via USB it doesn't transact with it. I also mix completely in the box. The mixer is just a big signal router for studio functions. For example, neve preamp - > burl input - > motu - > computer. Or the motu can loop all the burl captured data into the console to do things like sum two mics on a guitar amp or have the B3, piano, and wurlitzer all show up on the same pair of channels in protools by using the bussing on the console. I've been in the tascam ecosystem for a long time and absolutely acknowledge the anti intuitive routing of the interface, especially since it goes right to left on the screen. I wish the idea of a digital mixer for a studio tool was still a thing. Now they're all for PA applications.
do you know how much money money Andrew just saved all of us!? he did the thing we’ve all dreamt of doing, and probably is revealing a truth. A truth We all know deep down inside is the reality. I still desperately want to own a console, but seeing this reaffirms what I know deep down, I don’t need it.
11:15 Andrew that’s for the Pro Tools Operator - those studios are designed for an engineer and a recordist (now PT Op), producer(s), etc. I even have a great rolling side desk workstation (but because we have an S6…)
Totally. I was that op for 6 years at eastwest, good gig when everyone is all there. This video is me just sharing my experience has to do with my personal studio and workflow.
This is really helpful! I am in a similar position. I have a bunch of hardware drum machines and synthesizers that I would like to have always "on" without having to re-patch. I'm very curious to see what you do next in the studio...
My studio has a console. I use it regularly. I didn't build my studio around the console, though. I knew the role the console would play and didn't assume it would be my "everything." My console is a bunch of really good-sounding preamps with good eq and some really helpful routing. It is not used during mixing (99% of the time). So, knowing what I was going to do with it, I set it up off to the side...which I just learned is what your friend Brian is doing with it. When he decides to sell it, let me know. I love my console but will be looking to get a different one eventually.
and this is the reason I use my Dangerous 2-Bus plus and Dbox plus for the analog sauce... 24 channels of summing without the need for a physical console.
We've had DAWs since the late 80s... and it still astounds me that literally none of the manufacturers of consoles/controllers have been able to make something that solves this form factor problem... its almost as if they are afraid to...
I love my old Ramsa console, but it cost me 500$ and I ended up sinking probably 2500$ more into additional I/O and cabling. Then there is the recall issue. I am currently building out a small basement studio/tracking room and I also thought about maybe just having my console in the corner for tracking drums and setting up a more ergonomic desk with hardware on the sides. I never thought I would change my stance on that but it's a big piece of equipment not being used to it's full potential. I agree that all consoles should have a work space in the middle. My workaround was having computer off to the side but an external monitor mounted over the console and a keyboard and mouse on a sliding tray under the table. But that said, it can be a workflow issue if you have to set your board levels differently using the preamps vs mixing through it. It is true that you commit to things more with a console but that recall... it's always going to be an issue. With services like Access Analog now offering summing in the cloud (and the ability for you to save a preset), it makes the case more for a digital controller with faders if you want a more tactile approach to mixing hybrid. I think external hardware and patchbays are here to stay, but consoles are going to be used less for home production unless they also can be used as controllers.
I understand why you ended up frustrated with your console. As you suggest, the best solution is having the DAW screen and controller faders right in the middle of your analog console. I had the same problem and I ended up with a Neve Genesys Black. The screen and 16 DAW faders are integrated into the center of the console. All of the analog faders are also fully automated and the analog EQ and Dynamics are recallable. It's a fantastic console, but of course it ain't cheap.
Ergonomics is everything. Sad to see the console go but you're good with your external pre's and modern tech.. Now you can say you owned one and enjoyed it for awhile and learned some things.
Why not use a summing mixer like the Neve 5060 centerpiece?? Route your groups thru the analoge channels after you’ve done in the box? Multiple examples of why this should work. Check Brad Wood on his setup.
Thank you for being honest about your reasoning. I found this really informative. One of your reasons for having the console was all the mic preamps. Do you have enough outboard preamps for the number of inputs you have, or is this going to reduce how much you can leave permanently plugged in? Would love to know how that aspect affects your workflow going forward.
That's a pity... you could sort it out using an external monitor and a small side table with wheels, regulable in height, with your automation faders and mouse - so you would turn to face the monitors when needed, and work standing up, which I find far more healthy and involving (I do not like to sit down for working with music). I have that setup and it works well for me. Another solution is using a modular console remove channels from the center and install the computer there. Many people does that.
yeah I am a hobbiest but I have three desks in a n shape and then I have those clamp on "laptop and monitor" things that you can attach to dessk that swivel in and out, I sort of customized it a little so it can hold larger objects but I find this is really great for making more surface space to put things you want hands onthe swivel stuff also comes out over where you are sitting so its like putting the desk over you over desk height, currently using it for controllers and a keyboard that also has knobs and pads and sliders this simple hack expands out surface space overtop of you without needing to modify the size of the desk itself and you still have access to the desk surface area because the platformas are out and up from the desk You can also swivel them to tuck them away when not in use. I am finding this to e a great hack, and they are relatively cheap. Also you can pick up a 16 track mixer for a few hundred dollars. But sound quality may vary, currently my cheap hobby settup is a cheap chinse 16 track mixer then it is hooked up to a cheap UA device through the line in more or less providing the mixers analog signal to the UA 24bit audio input. This could likely be upscaled but my solution as a hobbiest is maybe a few hundred then I have a DAW controller qcon 8 channel setup and use the keyboard i have for an additional 8 sliders. Plus the 16 analog lines through the cheap mixer hooked up to the cheapish audio interface. Provides lines, automation lines in all probably under $2000 for everything. But again I am a hobbiest. The limitation on this is that I don't have multiple line outs for individual lines only master outputs but I tend to use my analog for recording tracks of single instruments not outputing a master track. Also something like a UAD apollo unit has multiple lines in and out so might be a digital solution for that then having some type of daw interface to automate sliders. Apollo isn't exactly cheap but they are lower cost than many console units although the larger apollo x p16s etc.. probably come in the starting price of smaller consoles. I know the next BIG buy I do will be probably on a used UAD device .. in the 1000-2000 dollar range... you can pick up an apollo 8 for ~1000
Having all of the microphones running through the same electronics helps her feel more like a band. And so many people today they’re doing nothing but electronic-based music don’t need that but I think they’re missing out completely.
I agree, when I started out, there weren't a bunch of outboard pres. You used the pres in the console regardless of the source. And often times for overdubs, regardless of what it was--vocals, guitars, organ etc--you just moved the mic from one thing to another. It wasn't until the last few decades that gearpimps convinced us all we needed all these different preamps, one for guitar, one for drums, one for vulcan throat singers. etc. It's one of the reasons why I have a rack of 16 channels of Daking - all the same. Everything comes together sounding cohesive when it is time to mix. I only have two channels of a Neve style when I want to push inputs into heavy saturation to thicken up a source.
been there, done that long long time ago! In 2024 there’s zero need for a Large Format Analog Console. Moved to ITB solutions such controllers (and some outboard gear for the recording part). That’s so much more efficient, total recall, automation, unlimited possibilities (if you have a recent computers that can load thousands of plugins). Add a recallable patchbay between your outboard and your I/O converters, and even your tracking time will be improved… oh and if you *really* want analog summing, then add a summing rack, maybe even 2 to have different type of summing… it will still be cheaper than a LFAC.
I'm shocked at how light that console is and that two normal people could move it like that. I've got a 28 channel MCI at home... and it's well over 600lbs including the power supplies. So many transformers. Only downside to it is the maintenance.
Upside to an in-line console like a JH-500 is that you've got 28 channels for tracking AND 28 channels for monitoring at once (plus another near-dozen inputs from echo returns, etc). I can keep stuff set for tracking a full drum kit with ~16 microphones, two for bass, four guitar, some keyboard inputs, vocal mic, etc - and at the same time have the returns from the DAW on all of those, or various "tape" inputs from stereo feeds on the computer. In a small footprint you have all of it at once and a super fast workflow. If anything, it keeps me ready to always-go and not need to switch back and forth between various setups.
I have the Toft (like I mentioned on your other vid) and it has the per ch switch, where the inputs switch from your mic ins-"big fader controls inputs levels" and then each channel has a "computer/tape return" controlled by a pot. THEN, you flip a switch and that is reversed...so each channel can be both live input and/or recorder mixer. Doesn't the Trident do the same? I have a DAW fader controller and will do some computer routing and ITB automation, but I just leave my analog faders at unity when I automate faders in the DAW...maybe that's a bad practice? I just like have the analog inserts and EQ's available to me without the headache of interfacing outboard via another interface send/return (and the extra AD/DA conversion and latency compensation). I do have some lesser monitors that I use with my fader controllers, so I'm not rubber-necking, like you mentioned. I don't really have a point, I guess. I do not work professionally like you. Maybe I'm just curious to hear your 2 cents...if you're ever board enough to chime in. Started watching your vid on the "songwriter space"...gonna go back and finish it now. Thanks for all yer advice!
Shame the console didn't fit your workflow but interesting to hear about the logistics of fitting a large-ish mixing desk into a small-ish hybrid space. I know I don't have the space for an analogue desk in my home studio although it doesn't stop me dreaming. :P If I had a larger room/desk, I would probably settle for putting the mixer off to the side and, if necessary, move some outboard to a rack behind the mixing position. I'd likely prioritise stereo outboard to the mixing position and mono into the rack.
For the price of the trident you can get an Anatal Xbay, literally connect EVERYTHING stationary and recall all your routings and chains in a snap. If you really want that trident sound there's the A-range... Another thing that went unmentioned, regardless which brand console, glueing a mix through all the same cirquitry for every channel is very convenient opposed to dealing with your palette of different preamp and eq options. Also, theoretically, everything between source and capture is a degrading component so taking the console out of the equation will resolve that. The problem with that idea is that before you wouldnt have practical controlroom options you'd find on a console and adequat means to make easy headphone mix.. none of which are a problem today.
If I could go back in time, I would only purchase about 1/3 of the hardware that currently surrounds me. I’ve ultimately found it to be an unnecessary expense, redundant in certain ways, and too HOT in the summer LOL. Plugins sound SO good now it’s hard to justify the expense, space in the room, and maintenance costs. It does look cool though 😊
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I’m going to bookmark this video and watch it every time I go down an SSL console rabbit hole. 😂
Every day for the last week - I keep staring at a used Ssl XL desk on reverb. “Don’t… hit… the … offer… button”
🤣
Dude really just needed an Origin.
Having moved from a Toft Audio console into a console-less situation (with 40 channels of standalone mic pre’s) several years ago, I anticipated this exact video the moment I saw your video where you installed that console. But, having a dozen IRL friends who have gone through this same thing, I’ve just learned that everybody had to go through the same process of realization for themselves.
true.
i went through the same thing myself 😅
Not everybody! I was fortunate enough to be too broke to buy a big console to begin with...
We have a Harrison 950mx here and I don't know how I would get on without it. And this is an all electronic music studio. The console is just a large front end for a bunch of a hardware. 16 mono channels and 8 stereo. Stereo synths on stereo channels and mono synths... you get the idea. Each channel sent to either the red bus or the black bus. One bus is for recording stereo and one for mono. That's 3 channels total on our precious Mytek 8x192 AD/DA. I dont know how else I would this and save on expensive conversion. Channel counts on conversion add up in price pretty quickly. And we have a lot of synths. And outboard. Console has aux channels too so that saves on both latency and conversion channel count again. For things like Lexicon FX outboard etc. And I guess last but not least with the Harrison we get all analogue signal path to the monitors. Can hear the analogue synths in, well analogue. :) No conversion necessary when monitoring. I don't know how else I'd do all this. But if your use-case is split console like you said in the video then yeah you're stuck. We just use ours as a big input router and to save on conversion channels. Sure it has a nice sound but whatever. That's not even a consideration for us. All the best post console mate. Cheers.
The console in my old studio became our table. We only used it when we tracked drums, and even then we left it covered in everything because the pres and EQs were set. For day to day, I definitely don't miss it.
Really appreciate this, Andrew. It's SO helpful to hear your thinking behind getting and now selling your console. As well as Edwin's console. Rock on, brother. Keep us posted.
The struggle is real. I was using a 24 channel analog console for a long time and after I was done tracking I was fighting to work around it for everything else. Analog consoles with producers desks and automation are amazing but hard for many to justify. Depending on budget and what makes sense as a return on investment, anything ranging from the SSL controllers, to Avid S1, S3, S4 can serve a studio well. A lot of people complain that controllers are a big mouse and a waste of money. I feel ergonomics are so important and you'll work better, faster, and more efficiently with controllers, and it will show in your body of work.
What I like about analog console that I do not have to think what to adjust.
I just do it. Fast and effective.
Digital put me to "push and check" mode. It is just slow.
I was thinking that a hybrid project with analog feel and digital engine can be gap-filler. but now we do not have such projects. They are simply two expensive. Motorized rotary encoder costs about 10-15$
And we would need: EQ: 6, Comp: 3: Gate 3, pan and gain: 210$ for 1 channel strip.
6000$ will cost only encoders for such 24 channel controller which give you a basic instant access to all channel parameters.
this is the modern day gear influencer full circle, thanks for being honest with us!
Funny to think of me as an influencer lol
I’ve dreamt of having a real SSL since I first recorded on one back in ‘95 as a fresh faced 14 year old. It was mind blowing. But I genuinely wouldn’t have one now in 2024. I use an SSL UF1/UC1 and 2x UF8 along with 16 inputs of focusrite clarett and I’ve been fully in the box for 7 years now. It’s everything I could ever need. I love the old days but it’s just so much easier to get work done in the modern way.
Nice to hear that you continue to move forward. Sad to see the console leave . I remember your genuine excitement when you first got it .
A couple weeks ago I picked up my Presonus StudioLive 64S. I have 1/4" & XLR patchbays with all my outboard gear hooked up. I have a 20 channel snake for easy hook ups for inputs. For me I like having everything all hooked up and ready to go, plus the flexibility of what the console is capable of. I'm more productive than before and the console inspires me to create and get in the zone.
I have a small Presonus Series 3 and i totally get it. I have everything permanently connected and my DAW is configured so that it just works. I can walk into my studio, power it all up and write and record. That's how it should be. Painless.
I totally agree with your reasons. I’ve found that a really good solution for analog summing is the RND 5059 or 5057. It does the glue thing really nicely without having to have a console in front of you.
NEVE 8424 with Motorized Fader pack sounds like what you need
This is good insight! I just sold my API The Box 2 Console after a similar period of ownership. Decided to go all in the box for mixing and had enough analog options for tracking already.
Sold my console, and never looked back. Once I got over the nostalgia of it all I realized I didn't need it.
Same bro. I want back and forth for years. Had to go through 4 consoles to get to the point where I’m never going back.
That may be ok for people working out of their homes or just doin EDM, hip hop, rap., or just mixing. I would have a very hard time recording a 50 person choir with a live band or doing pre production work for national touring acts with just a mouse and a keyboard,
love the thought behind making this move - hope it found a good home!
I love the piano riff at the end.
indeed, that was so chill and emotional!
I'm very happy to see a true opinion of pros and cons in a hybrid system stated in such a lucid way. Today I find it very difficult to watch videos on UA-cam which people really expose the 2 sides, the joys and sadness, of working with a console. Congratulations on the video.
Very touchy subject, but I completely agree - sold mine a few years ago.
Consoles look impressive and can be useful in large multi-input tracking situations like recording bands and small orchestras but for modern computer based production, they are largely unnecessary and just get in the way typically. The solution to a producer desk in the middle of the console is not to buy a $100k console with a producer desk, instead just buy two small consoles, like SSL Big 6, and put them on each side of your producer desk. With higher end plugins, analog summing boxes, a high quality analog stereo mic / eq / compression / ADC channel strip combo, you can imprint analog goodness all over your tracks and masters without the bulky console taking up space in your studio.
Excited to see the new space and setup!
I went to the Warm Audio preamp/ EQ set up like you had before the console purchase and I love it. I have 1 WA273 now and will be getting another one this year.
I love how when you said "The console is leaving today" Lil Man turned right around and looked at it. Shows he's familiar and learning studio terminology. That's so dope!..
at the studio i came up in, we were patching around as much of the console's circuitry as we could get away with, i never got nostalgic for the tone of the board because i was always fighting with the day to day changes in sound. since about 2010, all you really need are good mic pres and conversion and a solid monitoring setup.
Nice to hear your experience. I started like 30 years ago but didn't have the money to get good ADDA converters and ended up with a pro tools Mix with 882 system. THose were plain horrible converters. Later moved on to HDX, had a little more money and purchased an SSL4056E/G console. It had some automation and an old computer with floppy disks; It sounded pretty good and you needed to work a lot less hard to put everything on it's place. Then I talked with Bob Katz and he told me: dude, 882 suck, you want the best ADDA? Get a prismsound. So I got them on test and boy what a difference. In the end I sold the SSL and kept the prismsounds and worked in the box. SSL E are great but they are old and require constant maintenance. Not a month goes by and come channel has something broken. The send knobs have issues, the routing doesn't work due to bad contacts, sold the damn thing.
I feel in the box tech is still not as good sounding as a top analogue console but with a little more work you can get there imo. You don't have the cables and as you say for productions without huge amount of live musicians it's perfect.
I've really enjoyed following your journey. I've got an analog console and couldn't imagine parting with it even though admittedly it can complicate things. Motorized faders make the HUGEST difference in how easily an analog console can mesh with a hybrid setup (per your point on automation), but unfortunately the barrier to entry with those can be significant. I know it's been done to a degree, but I really hope future console designs implement built in hybrid workflow more efficiently. Great work man.
👍you´re absolutely right ... thats exactly the same reasons for me why i had have kicked out the option for buying a ssl origin-16 to put in my room: it would be nice to have for summing & and mixing, maybe sometimes for tracking through it - but for most of all times it would be only an expenssive "cupboard" which is taking a lot of space in the room (and money from the account) ...
Dude I feel you. I got rid of mine too. Now it's preamps on the front end into my Dante network and the rest is done in the box mostly. I can still use my Dante converters and route it to outboard gear via Dante Controller.
I'm working towards a similar setup. Dante is fantastic in a studio. Even have it linked to the SC inputs of my analog compressors.
This makes so much sense. Totally understand and being new to all of this, gives me perspective and helps me know what I should think about doing, opposed to what I might "want" to do. Thanks!
I had wondered how you were making use of it. I',m with you that my workflow is just such that a console (While awesome aesthetically and sonically) would just get in the way and cause more headaches than problem solving. Workflow is 100% key, so sacrifices must be made to ensure productivity is kept. Thanks for letting me live vicariously through you in having it for a limited time, but like you said, you never know you don't need something until you have it for a while and see. Cheers and looking forward to the new studio videos.
Good luck with your relocation and moving away from the console setup. Looking forward to your new configuration.
Awesome perspective on how the console workflow may not be for everyone. At the end of the day it is just another tool. The Audient 8024 has the option of producers desk and costs less than an API, Neve, or SSL. I’ve never worked on a big console, but did enjoy using a Tascam DP-01 before using a DAW; so I do miss the more tactile flow, and am not yet deep into automation. Anyways, looking forward to seeing the new studio and what new adventures lie ahead
I’m fully in the box with a few outboard gear like mic pre ! Mix Bus and 1176 compressor
Man I feel you, sold our console years ago and still miss the look of it on the desk that now just has controllers. But the function/routing/control and recall of modern digital tools is just too good to ignore.
So excited to see your new space!
I think we have all been through this at one time or another. Very interesting to see what works depending on needs, wants, ergonomics etc. Good Luck with the new studio!
Love the slow music "memories" sequence at the end. So touching.
I totally understand where you are coming from and take the same approach to gear... if I'm not getting use out of it move it along. For me it's mostly swapping out synthesizers, but I've done similar things with preamps and, of course, that massive Sony MCI MXP-3036 console I restored. The lack of a producers desk was part of the issue with that console, but of course I built a custom shelf for keyboard/mouse and faderport. So I moved it along.
To me a reason to keep a console like the Trident (or the Sony) would be if you want to standardize and really be familiar with your preamps and EQs. It's fun to have lots of choices, but it's quicker and easier to just have one good choice that works across all sources. And let's face it, you can record any source with a good preamp. You don't actually "need" an alternate preamp for vox, or drums or whatever. Having alternates is just a preference.
Since I bought it I've only been having problems that are never resolved with my Trident88
I will buy in the next few years API 1608 or SSL
Never again a Trident you’re doing the right thing man!!!
My alma mater had the SSL 948. I loved that desk due to its duality to work Pro Tools. I'm in the post production world, but I do music for personal/fun. I currently do not have a board. I want to expand into the analog world (including a board), but space is limited...and this reassured me that 948 may not be ideal. I'm really looking forward to the next video/the new studio setup.
Thanks for everything you share with us!!!
Gotta do what works for you but I was really enjoying your console centric work flow.
I actually spent the money on a StudioDesk Commander V2, and after a year of not using it that much, I've realized that my current 82" wide desk top can just be mounted onto a FlexiSpot standing desk frame, and now I have my work computer/studio computer with my Fantom 08 all under the same desk. No more moving back and forth from one desk to another. It was an expensive learning experience, and still trying to offload the studiodesk, but things run more swimmingly now.
When you got console, I have to admit, I was having console envy but my procrastination ended up being a virtue for once. Thanks for the reality check at your own expense. Hit me up next time you are in LA.
Happy to help
I've been mulling over the same thing in my home studio with an Avid C24. It's got the motorized faders, of course, but it really impedes workflow sitting in front of me on the desk, and I could easily get by with an S1 and dock these days. The C24 is also end-of-life, so it will only get more difficult to repair in the future!
i’ve always loved having a real analog console as well and it’s true they take up a ton of room! and if you have a small room to begin with it seems overkill. but, the summing and the consistent slew rate between channels for recording & mixing & the ability to split to different recorders like digital & tape is awesome. so i’m keeping mine! 🎉 i hear you though Andrew & completely understand. I’m sure you’ll get a Neve next 😂
I don’t envy moving all that equipment, look forward to you showing the new spot 👌🏿
Sounds like the right move. I think a board like that only makes sense in specific situations these days like you said. I bet it was fun to play with though!
good luck with your studio. I love hardware music gear and have a lot. it does get to a point where we have too many things. space and ability to focus is very important
I'm the opposite. I have the SSL controllers and NEVER USE THEM unless I force myself to. I use my cheap Soundcraft GB8 48ch console like crazy. Just cannot get used to controllers at all. Having said that, I have my entire mix room torn apart and rebuilding much like the last studio tour you produced this week. Console to the side, racks line the front and smaller roll desk in center with controller/keyboard/mouse. I am 99% of the time mixing and mastering however and only tracking occasionally.
Looks like it's time to get Harrison Mixbus and now you can take your console with you in your backpack.
Yes! I've come to exactly the same conclusion my self. Not that I had a large analog console, but I'm running with a X32 that does lot for me, but most of the space right in front of me gets hardly ever used. Good thing it runs partially as a DAW controller, but still.
Therefore, I've started planning to build my own modular console. Similar to those old vintage consoles, but mostly DAW controller and space for mouse and keyboard in the center that gets most use regardless what I'm doing.
On the sides it would be nice to salvage some channel strips from consoles and have other outboard that does what typical analog console does.
Something to consider... now that your console is gone, get a summing mixer so that you can still get the benefit of an analog summing buss while mixing in the box. They're rackmount so they don't take up much space, but give you the best aspects of an analog desk. Looking forward to seeing the new setup once you've moved everything. Cheers!
Okay so about two years ago I embarked on an all analog journey. I challenged myself to make an entire record using analog tape in some way or another. I anticipated using the tape to record and a DAW to mix. For the most part that’s what I did. Half way through, I felt like I wasn’t really working in the analog domain, I was just adding an extra step to my digital music. So, I bought a tiny 90’s 8 track board from Guitar Center for like $100 and made the record. I loved not using the computer until my final mix down so much, that I bought a 16 channel 1” machine and a Neve console, as well as a tone of other analog gear. I’m now working fully in the analog domain, I doubt I’ll ever go back to working with a DAW… However Im writing this so say, of all the issues I’ve run into that people who work in the box probably never think about, the biggest by far is absolutely having to own and maintain a console. It is by far the most annoying aspect of analog tape. I see so many cool hybrid mixing equipment (IE the NEVE centerpiece) that I’d love to try out, but I know I’d have no use for it. Anyways cool vid
summing mixer would make more sense i feel like for that extra bump you wanted with the console.
I feel if you wanna get a console in this modern day, you need to get a hybrid console. I have had my SSL AWS924 for nearly 10years and still loving it. I can't imagine working without it.
When you installed that thing, I told myself you would swap it out within two years. I love a desk but the controller setup is just easier to rip through projects with.
Best of luck
I have a basement (Weekend Warrior) thing going on. I got rid of my 24 Channel Digital Mixer/Console/Interface. I never used it for anything except an Interface and never used more than 8 channels at a time. Bought an 8 channel interface. Best thing I ever did.
For automation you could have added the Wes Audio NG Levelers. I added 32 channels of post processing automation for less than 5K. I did it at Mixing Music Analog
Hurts the soul to see it go, but your justification is bang on. Plugging and unplugging everything to jump between tracking and mixing sucks
Sounds like you just need an SSL AWS 924 console. You can use it for recording, mixing, daw controller and it has recall! The only thing is that you won't have the space in the middle for the keyboard and monitor screen.
Sad to see the console go 😭
By the way, if you're still gonna be mixing you can have a good summing mixer 16 channel or 32 channel to obtain that analog console magic
I had a big inline console a few years ago and was in the same dilemma. I was relieved big time once i sold it because i didnt had to plan my moves in the studio. In the end its about creating music and for me music is spontanious freedom.
You should get a Rupert Neve Designs Orbit. Console sound without the controls. I love mine!
It's more expensive, but something like the modular mixers from Zahl. They can be specified / built to order, and you can add CV control. Pricey, but not as expensive as API. At the cheaper end, things like the Cranborne 500R8 are a nice solution too, or using more than one of them. Can mix and match preamps, EQs and comps. Build out to order, and acts as a monitor controller, summing mixer, audio interface. Especially in a set and forget context where you don't need or want to ride the controls. An 8-channel Cranborne 800R, packed with 8 CAPI pres, with outboard CAPI or other EQ could work.
Take a shot everytime he says "console"
Wow dude you have two real pultec’s…I have a small console SSL XDESK with eq’s, dynamics and Bus compressor just for bringing everything in a centralized location wired to my patch bay and out board gear. All controlled with my Avid Dock and S3
I was interested in the Trident 68, but really likely to go with Neve 8424 when can afford it if stil set on a console. Many producers love the 8424 and integration with existing outboard gear.
Saw a nice Trident A console in that video - used to work at Trident as a test engineer back in the late 70s - great times :)
never had an urge to buy console and after watching your first videos with Trident I was seriously considering one… so watching this video is exactly how I would feel after wasting money on one… I like my analog instruments/digital effects, unlimited DAW channels setup and it would be really hard/expensive to replicate fully analog
Man - almost had me in tears.
Very interesting point of view. You'd better have many different preamps and EQ in a rack and a nice producer setup inyour case. Good luck with your relocation!
Thankful for the stuff I’m using!
There's so much more to this comment that I'm leaving but... I have a Tascam DM4800 console that is a digital studio console and it's freakishly able. I can run at up to 96k. I has 24 busses and option cards that can get you into the 2020's interfaces. I use it with Burl converters and a motu 112D interface. The Motu is the gathering point of my digital universe. The tascam is a control surface, an actual mixer when I need it. It's multi layered beyond all functions. I do nearly all my inputs digitally through the Tascam into pro tools. The tascam gives my 24 inputs and I use an additional 8 for sundry stuff I don't necessarily need to monitor all the time during tracking. Cymbal mics, aux room mics, etc. The Motu has a routing matrix that gives me a ton of options, the console has more options. I can print multiple sources together if I want. I can eq stuff on the board if I want. I can use compression on the board if I want. Is it spectacular? No. Is it totally fuctional? Absolutely. Unfortunately they abandoned this line of consoles in 2014 or so but wow, they are powerful. Did I mention a full control surface layer and transport controls? Well, it has it. Could it be better. Of course. Does it get the job done and then some? Absolutely. I'd love some influencer to get the ear of some company and truly complete the product that an amalgam of companies have been nibbling at.
I used to have a couple of different digital consoles over the years - DM3200, 01v, 02rs, this was like 15 years ago. For me, my workflow, the DM3200 got in the way. The Yamaha stuff I dumped when Yamaha killed mLAN by not making 64bit drivers for the new OSes.
@@NuclearDeathWalk for me, the dm4800 is just plumbing and the control surface. While it is connected to the computer via USB it doesn't transact with it. I also mix completely in the box. The mixer is just a big signal router for studio functions. For example, neve preamp - > burl input - > motu - > computer. Or the motu can loop all the burl captured data into the console to do things like sum two mics on a guitar amp or have the B3, piano, and wurlitzer all show up on the same pair of channels in protools by using the bussing on the console.
I've been in the tascam ecosystem for a long time and absolutely acknowledge the anti intuitive routing of the interface, especially since it goes right to left on the screen. I wish the idea of a digital mixer for a studio tool was still a thing. Now they're all for PA applications.
do you know how much money money Andrew just saved all of us!? he did the thing we’ve all dreamt of doing, and probably is revealing a truth. A truth We all know deep down inside is the reality. I still desperately want to own a console, but seeing this reaffirms what I know deep down, I don’t need it.
Just sharing what I’m doing - do your thing whatever it is.
11:15 Andrew that’s for the Pro Tools Operator - those studios are designed for an engineer and a recordist (now PT Op), producer(s), etc. I even have a great rolling side desk workstation (but because we have an S6…)
Totally. I was that op for 6 years at eastwest, good gig when everyone is all there. This video is me just sharing my experience has to do with my personal studio and workflow.
This is really helpful! I am in a similar position. I have a bunch of hardware drum machines and synthesizers that I would like to have always "on" without having to re-patch. I'm very curious to see what you do next in the studio...
My studio has a console. I use it regularly.
I didn't build my studio around the console, though. I knew the role the console would play and didn't assume it would be my "everything." My console is a bunch of really good-sounding preamps with good eq and some really helpful routing. It is not used during mixing (99% of the time).
So, knowing what I was going to do with it, I set it up off to the side...which I just learned is what your friend Brian is doing with it. When he decides to sell it, let me know. I love my console but will be looking to get a different one eventually.
and this is the reason I use my Dangerous 2-Bus plus and Dbox plus for the analog sauce... 24 channels of summing without the need for a physical console.
We've had DAWs since the late 80s... and it still astounds me that literally none of the manufacturers of consoles/controllers have been able to make something that solves this form factor problem... its almost as if they are afraid to...
Please throw some of the staff you do not need anymore this way. you've answered a concern I was chewing on. thank you for the vedio
I love my old Ramsa console, but it cost me 500$ and I ended up sinking probably 2500$ more into additional I/O and cabling. Then there is the recall issue. I am currently building out a small basement studio/tracking room and I also thought about maybe just having my console in the corner for tracking drums and setting up a more ergonomic desk with hardware on the sides. I never thought I would change my stance on that but it's a big piece of equipment not being used to it's full potential. I agree that all consoles should have a work space in the middle. My workaround was having computer off to the side but an external monitor mounted over the console and a keyboard and mouse on a sliding tray under the table. But that said, it can be a workflow issue if you have to set your board levels differently using the preamps vs mixing through it. It is true that you commit to things more with a console but that recall... it's always going to be an issue. With services like Access Analog now offering summing in the cloud (and the ability for you to save a preset), it makes the case more for a digital controller with faders if you want a more tactile approach to mixing hybrid. I think external hardware and patchbays are here to stay, but consoles are going to be used less for home production unless they also can be used as controllers.
I'm kind of just stoked to see the new space haha.
I understand why you ended up frustrated with your console. As you suggest, the best solution is having the DAW screen and controller faders right in the middle of your analog console. I had the same problem and I ended up with a Neve Genesys Black. The screen and 16 DAW faders are integrated into the center of the console. All of the analog faders are also fully automated and the analog EQ and Dynamics are recallable. It's a fantastic console, but of course it ain't cheap.
Ergonomics is everything. Sad to see the console go but you're good with your external pre's and modern tech.. Now you can say you owned one and enjoyed it for awhile and learned some things.
Why not use a summing mixer like the Neve 5060 centerpiece?? Route your groups thru the analoge channels after you’ve done in the box? Multiple examples of why this should work. Check Brad Wood on his setup.
Thank you for being honest about your reasoning. I found this really informative.
One of your reasons for having the console was all the mic preamps. Do you have enough outboard preamps for the number of inputs you have, or is this going to reduce how much you can leave permanently plugged in? Would love to know how that aspect affects your workflow going forward.
I elected to get a Flock and I'm now looking at an Icon VM 1 controller basically for the reasons you described.
My mentor E-A Ski Has the Trident 68 and he's doing some Amazing things with it... Y'all better get one if you are interested.
That's a pity... you could sort it out using an external monitor and a small side table with wheels, regulable in height, with your automation faders and mouse - so you would turn to face the monitors when needed, and work standing up, which I find far more healthy and involving (I do not like to sit down for working with music). I have that setup and it works well for me. Another solution is using a modular console remove channels from the center and install the computer there. Many people does that.
yeah I am a hobbiest but I have three desks in a n shape and then I have those clamp on "laptop and monitor" things that you can attach to dessk that swivel in and out, I sort of customized it a little so it can hold larger objects but I find this is really great for making more surface space to put things you want hands onthe swivel stuff also comes out over where you are sitting so its like putting the desk over you over desk height, currently using it for controllers and a keyboard that also has knobs and pads and sliders this simple hack expands out surface space overtop of you without needing to modify the size of the desk itself and you still have access to the desk surface area because the platformas are out and up from the desk You can also swivel them to tuck them away when not in use. I am finding this to e a great hack, and they are relatively cheap. Also you can pick up a 16 track mixer for a few hundred dollars. But sound quality may vary, currently my cheap hobby settup is a cheap chinse 16 track mixer then it is hooked up to a cheap UA device through the line in more or less providing the mixers analog signal to the UA 24bit audio input. This could likely be upscaled but my solution as a hobbiest is maybe a few hundred then I have a DAW controller qcon 8 channel setup and use the keyboard i have for an additional 8 sliders. Plus the 16 analog lines through the cheap mixer hooked up to the cheapish audio interface. Provides lines, automation lines in all probably under $2000 for everything. But again I am a hobbiest. The limitation on this is that I don't have multiple line outs for individual lines only master outputs but I tend to use my analog for recording tracks of single instruments not outputing a master track. Also something like a UAD apollo unit has multiple lines in and out so might be a digital solution for that then having some type of daw interface to automate sliders. Apollo isn't exactly cheap but they are lower cost than many console units although the larger apollo x p16s etc.. probably come in the starting price of smaller consoles. I know the next BIG buy I do will be probably on a used UAD device .. in the 1000-2000 dollar range... you can pick up an apollo 8 for ~1000
I appreciate you sharing this! Thank you!
your desk looks just like mine now but I’ve also got the UF1 which is sweet
Having all of the microphones running through the same electronics helps her feel more like a band. And so many people today they’re doing nothing but electronic-based music don’t need that but I think they’re missing out completely.
I agree, when I started out, there weren't a bunch of outboard pres. You used the pres in the console regardless of the source. And often times for overdubs, regardless of what it was--vocals, guitars, organ etc--you just moved the mic from one thing to another. It wasn't until the last few decades that gearpimps convinced us all we needed all these different preamps, one for guitar, one for drums, one for vulcan throat singers. etc. It's one of the reasons why I have a rack of 16 channels of Daking - all the same. Everything comes together sounding cohesive when it is time to mix. I only have two channels of a Neve style when I want to push inputs into heavy saturation to thicken up a source.
been there, done that long long time ago! In 2024 there’s zero need for a Large Format Analog Console. Moved to ITB solutions such controllers (and some outboard gear for the recording part). That’s so much more efficient, total recall, automation, unlimited possibilities (if you have a recent computers that can load thousands of plugins). Add a recallable patchbay between your outboard and your I/O converters, and even your tracking time will be improved… oh and if you *really* want analog summing, then add a summing rack, maybe even 2 to have different type of summing… it will still be cheaper than a LFAC.
but but but you were so excited to get this console .... !!
Gladly take it off your hands brother 🙏🏼
I'm shocked at how light that console is and that two normal people could move it like that. I've got a 28 channel MCI at home... and it's well over 600lbs including the power supplies. So many transformers. Only downside to it is the maintenance.
Upside to an in-line console like a JH-500 is that you've got 28 channels for tracking AND 28 channels for monitoring at once (plus another near-dozen inputs from echo returns, etc). I can keep stuff set for tracking a full drum kit with ~16 microphones, two for bass, four guitar, some keyboard inputs, vocal mic, etc - and at the same time have the returns from the DAW on all of those, or various "tape" inputs from stereo feeds on the computer. In a small footprint you have all of it at once and a super fast workflow. If anything, it keeps me ready to always-go and not need to switch back and forth between various setups.
I have the Toft (like I mentioned on your other vid) and it has the per ch switch, where the inputs switch from your mic ins-"big fader controls inputs levels" and then each channel has a "computer/tape return" controlled by a pot. THEN, you flip a switch and that is reversed...so each channel can be both live input and/or recorder mixer. Doesn't the Trident do the same? I have a DAW fader controller and will do some computer routing and ITB automation, but I just leave my analog faders at unity when I automate faders in the DAW...maybe that's a bad practice? I just like have the analog inserts and EQ's available to me without the headache of interfacing outboard via another interface send/return (and the extra AD/DA conversion and latency compensation). I do have some lesser monitors that I use with my fader controllers, so I'm not rubber-necking, like you mentioned.
I don't really have a point, I guess. I do not work professionally like you. Maybe I'm just curious to hear your 2 cents...if you're ever board enough to chime in. Started watching your vid on the "songwriter space"...gonna go back and finish it now. Thanks for all yer advice!
It’s been a long day … without you my friend , and I’ll tell you all about it when I see you again
We at Loonz Recording and Music Studios run a Hybrid Digital/Analog Studio and this very effective and efficient
Shame the console didn't fit your workflow but interesting to hear about the logistics of fitting a large-ish mixing desk into a small-ish hybrid space.
I know I don't have the space for an analogue desk in my home studio although it doesn't stop me dreaming. :P
If I had a larger room/desk, I would probably settle for putting the mixer off to the side and, if necessary, move some outboard to a rack behind the mixing position.
I'd likely prioritise stereo outboard to the mixing position and mono into the rack.
For the price of the trident you can get an Anatal Xbay, literally connect EVERYTHING stationary and recall all your routings and chains in a snap.
If you really want that trident sound there's the A-range...
Another thing that went unmentioned, regardless which brand console, glueing a mix through all the same cirquitry for every channel is very convenient opposed to dealing with your palette of different preamp and eq options. Also, theoretically, everything between source and capture is a degrading component so taking the console out of the equation will resolve that. The problem with that idea is that before you wouldnt have practical controlroom options you'd find on a console and adequat means to make easy headphone mix.. none of which are a problem today.
If I could go back in time, I would only purchase about 1/3 of the hardware that currently surrounds me. I’ve ultimately found it to be an unnecessary expense, redundant in certain ways, and too HOT in the summer LOL. Plugins sound SO good now it’s hard to justify the expense, space in the room, and maintenance costs. It does look cool though 😊