Colt Burgess - Colt's Lever Action Rifle
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- Опубліковано 6 сер 2022
- In this episode, we'll take a look at the Colt Burgess lever action rifle. We'll also put the debate about whether Colt agreed to stop producing lever actions if Winchester stayed out of the revolver market.
Facinating history lesson. I never knew of this. I guess in the good ol days you could make executive decisions with a gentleman's agreement and not a room full of lawyers. Imagine that ...
I had a Uberti replica Burgess I acquired through Taylors & Co in .45 Colt. I don't know if it was the .45 Colt cartridge or what, but I could never get it to run right. I never could finish a stage with it at a cowboy match, so I sent it back to Taylor & Co twice. Their gunsmith said he couldn't find anything wrong with it and it worked fine for him. He advised I may be trying to run it too fast however I'm not the fastest cowboy on the block so I know it wasn't me. The third time I sent it back, Taylor & Co offered to swap it out for a Uberti 1873 rifle so I agreed and had no trouble with the 1873. I now shoot a replica of the Colt Lightning and have no trouble at all with it. I really did like the Burgess however and it was a pretty replica of the rifle. I just couldn't get it to keep working.
That's a shame. I'd seen that they were making a reproduction Burgess and wondered if they were any good. I would have liked to tried to get it running. It's great to hear that you're using a Lightning in cowboy action. My friend Eldon Penner used to shoot cowboy action with Lightnings and slick them up for others.
Nice rifle and a great confirmation on the Colt/Winchester agreement.
It's a great story that I discovered while doing research on another subject.
What a great old rifle from the Cody Show. I have managed to get 3 old 73's together here in Australia. It makes me so envious that there are these wonderful old guns still out there. A nice addition to the collection Mark, well done!
Thanks Jason! A big part of the fun in collecting is the hunt for the next interesting gun. And, of course, shooting them. Enjoy those '73s!
That was a great bit of insight. It is but a snapshot into what most of us overlook when talking about historical events or politics...and that it appears there is always a delicate, subtle, yet powerful element of communication and social nuances in these high-up circles of 'movers and shakers'.
I have a colt lightning rifle marked SFP 258, I love old rare rifles
Very nice, I've never shot anything but black powder in original guns of that era.
Great video as usual! About 10 years ago at the Tulsa gun show, a fellow had a table with nothing but Colt Burgess rifles on it. First time for me to see one and wondered why such a good looking rifle was so obscure. Now I know the rest of the story!😊 Thanks.
I think I probably saw the same guy with a table full of them at a show in Las Vegas. He even had a half octagon and a nickel-plated carbine. I couldn't afford any of them, but I sure enjoyed looking at them.
Very interesting video on the Colt Burgess. I didn’t know much about them before.
If you’re ever in Southern California I would be happy to let you try out several of my exceptional Marlin Ballard rifles. One is even pictured in John Dutcher’s book, “Ballard, The Great American Single Shot Rifle”.
What a sweet old rifle. Loved the "gentleman's agreement" story. Thanks for another entertaining video.
You bet. Thanks for watching!
Thank you, it's a pleasure to hear and see you working, talking and shooting those rifles. Keep posting for those who love the lever action rifles.
Will do, Henry! Thanks for watching.
It's really nice to see a fine old model like this Burgess still doing as it was designed to do. Thank you for giving us the vicarious opportunity to get in a bit of 'range time' and a good bit of understanding, too. If you ever come across a Kennedy or a Robinson, you'll be certain to have my (as always), undivided attention.
Another great video Mark. Other great designs out there other than just Winchester. Marlin made some great rifles too. Thanks for the lesson on the Burgess.
Agreed about the Marlins. They were heavily influenced by Andrew Burgess.
I’ve always liked the odd ball stuff in a lot of things. When I came across an article on Burgess I learned about his rifle design, described as stronger then the 1873. I bought a Burgess and a Lightning, both reproductions, because they were different from the 73, 92, 94 and 86 lever guns I have. And thanks again for another great video Mark. I can never get enough of what you do. Peace.
Of course, I love my Winchesters, but I do admire and enjoy shooting these old Colt Lightnings and Burgess rifles too.
Thanks for letting us know the rest of the story. Paul Harvey would have been proud. Always love hearing about the history of the development of the old lever guns. Thanks for taking the time to pass it on.
You're very welcome, Daniel!
Interesting information on “collaborative agreement” that does, in fact, tell the rest of the story. Thank you 👍👍
Thanks, Mike! Glad you enjoyed it
I've never heard of the Colt Burgess rifle. It looks like a solid firearm and I can see why Winchester saw them as competition.
What a great gun, Mark. Didn't know you'd picked that one up. Great shooter. It looks like that gun wants to shoot all day.
It doesn't look like much with the cracked stock and forend, but it's great fun to shoot.
Absolutely an Awesome Video. It was Fun, Interesting and informative Great Job!!! 🙂👍☕
Thanks a bunch! I'm glad you enjoyed it.
I enjoyed the meeting between the Colt and Winchester
I agree. It's an interesting piece of firearms history that I stumbled upon while doing research.
I believe that Andrew Burgess also designed the Marlin Models 1891 and 1892 which evolved into the 39A, the best lever action .22 rifle.
Those are great little rifles. I don't know for sure whether Burgess directly designed them. If not, their design was certainly influenced by his earlier design work for Marlin. Thanks for watching.
Very cool, slick little gun. Have always thought it was a superior design to the Winchester 73. I think Winchester knew it and made a deal with Colt to bury its manufacture. Thanks very much for sharing, great video!
You're very welcome! I agree that those Colts would have found their market if given the chance.
That is one neat old rifle! Never seen the inside of one! Always wondered how they worked. Thank you for the great video! Your lucky! Would love to shoot one of those some day! Thank you for posting!
You're very welcome, Dave! It was as fun to shoot as it looked. Hope you get the chance to shoot one someday.
Mark, I have to be honest with myself and tell you, I’m just always feeling disappointed after watching each of your videos. I’m so very disappointed that it’s over, disappointed there isn’t another new one and, disappointed I have to wait to see another interesting episode on the cinnabar. Now go get back to work and keep up you great work!!!
Sorry to disappoint you.😉 I admit I was feeling pretty bad when I started reading your post. Thanks a bunch for watching the channel. Life gets in the way of filming at times, but I'll do my best to post more often.
Congratz on the new old rifles to your ranch collection.😁
Thanks Mason! It's a dandy shooter.
That Is an Amazing New Acquisition Mark I’ve Never Seen a Colt Burgess In Person Muchless Seen One Shot 😮😮😲😀❤️ Love It
They're awfully nice little rifles and this old girl sure shoots well.
Always enjoy your information videos!
Great Video with very interesting history. Thank you
Great video!! Love the history lessons!! Thanks!!
Good to see you back
It's good to be back. Thanks for watching!
Always enjoy your posts.
Thanks Jeffrey! I appreciate it
Very good lesson.
That is a neat design. Thanks for the peek inside. It does seem superior to the Winchesters of the day both in strength and efficiency (size). Great Paul Harvey impersonation, by the way!
Thanks. I always enjoyed the Paul Harvey stories. This would have made a good one.
I have long been curious why Colt and Winchester maintained their separate lines with rifles and pistols but never knew the back story. Very interesting history lesson which explains it very well. Thanks for shareing that!! Love your videos, they are a wealth of knowledge!!
It's really good to see a new video, I look all the time. Your knowledge and expertise on older firearms is extraordinary. I love to see you shoot the old levers. Hopefully I won't have to wait as long for the next one. By the way is your shoulder healed?
Thanks so much for being a dedicated viewer, Lloyd. I've had trouble finding the time to do much filming lately, but I've got a couple more in the works. Keep an eye out.
Another great video.
Thanks Chris! I'm glad you enjoyed it
Interesting to see a different make and design that looks similar to a Winchester. Regards Richard 🇬🇧
Thanks for watching, Richard!
@@thecinnabar8442 always interesting, did you ever get your apprentice? Regards Richard
Thank you Mark. An educational and highly entertaining video. It always seemed strange to me that John Browning could have been so far ahead of other gun designers as his legend suggests. Andrew Burgess’s work fills a gap in my knowledge.
William Mason was another talented gun designer of the time. He was involved in designing Colt's single action army and early Colt double actions. He then went to work for Winchester where he refined Browning's prototypes. He turned them from rather spartan, but functional concepts into the classic Winchesters we know.
@@thecinnabar8442 Thanks for that expansion. Have a good weekend.
Very interesting video as they all are, interesting design does remind me a bit of the early Marlins. Had they continued production I suspect it would have been real competition for Winchester.
I agree. It's too bad they didn't continue with them. I'd also have liked to have seen how Winchester's revolvers would have done. They were pretty impressive as well.
A really excellent video outlining many of the misconceptions that collectors have about Winchester/Colt, the Burgess is a really nice design, and with the shorter more robust toggle would be much stronger than the light weight toggle system of the 1873, I wonder what calibre this system would have handled had it been more evolved. Many thanks for this tutorial, very interesting indeed! Chris B.
Thanks, Chris! I could have seen Colt offering a large frame version of this design, much like the large frame lightnings. I'm sure this design, in a little larger version, could have handled those same calibers
@@thecinnabar8442 This is the first time I have seen inside the action of a Burgess, it looks like it could have made up into a much shorter action than the 1876, and with the slightly more robust toggle I am sure it could have rivalled Winchesters design which ended up very long in the action. Chris B.
Good information. Thank you
You're very welcome, Preston!
Thank you well done as always.I was at a Harrisburg Pa gunshow a few years ago and there was a fellow walking a levergun around for sale. I studied it from a distance for a while. Eventually I went up and asked him about it. He show we’d me the rifle with pride relaying the “ gentleman’s agreement” story. Only one I have ever seen.
Any more thoughts on having cabins or RV spots for a week of new friends and old guns?
Thanks Tom. The cabins are probably going to be a longer term goal. I'm too busy with guns right now.
Dang it Mark! That's just wrong....Now I have to look for one to add to my collection! 😊 Angel
They're kinda hard to find, but worth the hunt. There are also Burgess reproductions, but I just prefer the old ones.
I love your channel.
Outstanding!👍🏽😀❤️🇺🇸
Thank you kindly, Jeffry!
I never knew colt made a lever action rifle
You might have a source in mind but this might be an option.
Years ago I needed a stock for a rare old rifle and finally came across one from a dealer in Yuba City, Ca..
He was good enough to ship it to me in bush Alaska.
I believe there was only one listing in Yuba City for rifle stocks.
Those are interesting old rifles I thought those were always pretty cool looking. I agree that it is a better or stronger design looks like it takes down pretty easy.
They're definitely a well-designed rifle. I'm a big fan of Andrew Burgess designed firearms.
@@thecinnabar8442 Have you had a chance to work on or fire any Whitney or Kennedy rifles?
That’s a super cool rifle,
Thanks Jeremy. I sure enjoy shooting it.
I have one of these Uberti 1883 Burgess clones, it a fun rifle to shoot.
Great
Happy Trails to you too.
I love Western Firearms!
You are having just TOO much fun! I'm jealous. :)
Amazing what can be accomplished by two business people without lawyers that only relied on their word to one another even if only by a wink and a nod. These days there would be threats and lawyers and hostile stock buys.
Nice old rifle
We were certainly better off when business could be done on a handshake.
love the blanket table cover
and work bench carpet... so was it
the win86 from JMB which really
closed off the chance for this
to catch on for its status as
greatly improved toggle?
Thanks David! Colt had already pulled the plug on the Burgess before the 1886 was introduced. I think the toggle link would have been at the end of it use anyway, though. Firearms design was progressing rapidly at that time.
Maybe the overall length was made the same as the 44-40 Winchester so the magazine tube could hold more.
My old 44/40 Yellow-orange shot nothing but Black Powder
Well when Colt got into rifles it did it big.
Great video!
Have you ever had the chance to work on or fire any Whitney or Kennedy lever rifles?
Yes. In fact, there's an episode on this channel where I shot a 38-40 and 44-40 Whitney Kennedy. I'm a big fan of those rifles.
@@thecinnabar8442 That's one show I don't remember seeing. I'll be looking for it.
Thanks.
Excellent video, I want to ask you , do you ever give opinions on the Italian reproduction lever guns? I think about grabbing the Uberti version of the Burgess,..
I'm generally impressed with Uberti's, but I haven't handled one of their Burgess replicas.
Was that Burgess rifle toggle link stronger than the Winchester or were they basically about the same strength?
The Colt Burgess toggle link is significantly beefier and stronger than the Winchester design. The original Winchester links are really pretty weak. I'd estimate that 20-25% of the '66s and '73s that come into the shop have cracked links. I think the only way you could crack a Burgess link would be with an excessive overcharge, and even then, I think something else would fail before the toggle link. I'm sure the modern reproduction Winchester links are much stronger because they're made from superior materials.
At about 12:13 or 12:14 you can hear a richochet come back over you. They sting like H377.
Good ear! It actually went off into the distance away from me. I heard it as I was shooting.
Never happen in today's money grubbin, backstabing corporate atmosphere !!
I would absolutely buy a set of cleaning rods for my reproduction uberti burgess
How are you liking your Uberti? Thinking about getting one .
@@usualsuspect5173 somewhat rough internals with michine marks but functional. No 1873 or 66 in smoothness and it's rare to even see a uberti burgess. As a shooter it's worth it. Not something many have ever seen.
1967. I was stationed at Forbes AFB , Topeka Kansas. A gun shop had bought a lever action rifle collection. The owner had passed and the wife sold it. There had to be a couple of hundred rifles. Stacked in the shop, ran out of space behind the counter. Stacked in the aisle four deep. I picked up what , I think, wasva " 73" Octagon barrel, cresent butt.....$ 35 ....All of them had a price of $:35. When I returned to buy one, a month later. Every one was gone. I think about the rifle I picked up might have been an " 86". It weighed about 9 pounds. I didn't know much about lever actions. I wonder what other brand rifles might have been in that collection
Snooze you loose 🤷
I have a colt lightning rifle marked SFP 258, I love old rare rifles
Those San Francisco Police lightnings are fantastic rifles, and most of them are in very nice condition because they weren't taken out and abused.
@@thecinnabar8442 she has very little bluing loss the barrel is a mirror and the action is perfect I couldn’t have asked for a better specimen