had to rewatch this cutscene after other people commented the same thing. The only thing suggesting French is the righting in buildings which is a localization thing for the English/European releases the Japanese version of the cutscene has Japanese on them. The world they go to has never offically been named but is assumed to be "earth". The main point of them being the same world of this theory is that Watching the cutsceen the river of souls lightning leads looks the exact same as the lifestream and the planet she leads them to fallows the same path as Seifer Sephiroths Supernova. And lands on the same planet that attack is focused on.
I genuinely thought it was the myth of humanity as in - us. Which I loved. She fought for humanity to be reborn on "earth" and that's why we don't have crystals and eidolons.."the legend of the crystals is over, vanished into a past and a time that never was." As a die hard absolute fanboy ff13 trilogy obsessed individual I prefer to think of it like that lmao
Unhelpful comment: Technically, even if Jenova is Lightning, they'd still be an 'alien', as basically it just means foreigner, and Lightning would be a foreign entity to this world none the less. However, I accept that not stipulating 'immortal' alien, doesn't actually resolve your dislike of the terminology.
@@matthewsuttles8209 ya got me there lol it's not that I disliked the terminology more that the idea of a plain alien being able to survive as long as janova does doesn't sound as possible as an immortal "alien" is more what I meant
@@ZoransFantasy-pv4vi Random thought after reading your comment: Jenova is an entity that 'survives' the destruction of a planet, and potentially the vacuum of space as it 'rides' the husks, for N lightyears between destinations, in which N could be tens, hundreds, thousands, millions, or even billions per trip. So, now that I think about it... I think Jenova's immortality is somewhat 'inferred'. Perhaps not outright stated, as generally speaking 'everything dies' if it dies in battle in a JRPG, be it gods, clouds, or player characters, if it's not justa K.O. We can assume Jenova has a lifespan of many millenia at the very least, and probably infinitely so if we assume that she's done this to multiple planets. Biologically, we can also assume that Jenova doesn't require consumption to survive, as drifting on a dead planet doesn't accommodate anything. If Jenova doesn't require 'any' sustenance, or survives on a planet's will as it would presumably be based upon it's lifestyle, then Jenova is effectively a planet herself after devouring many wills, and as such is capable of regeneration and immortality until they run out of 'energy'. Jenova is depicted as more of a virus, that consumes and corrupts, but if you consume and corrupt multiple planets, presumably you've got 'multiple planets' worth of energy from it. I would personally categorize Jenova as either 'Void' herself, or an 'entity comprised of void'. And while Lightning doesn't 'not' reflect this description herself at times. >_> If we assumed Lightning was Jenova, in my depiction of Jenova, that would make thirteen the 'beginning' of the void, that all life comes from, and that inevitably, all life returns to. That isn't impossible, but really undermines Lightning living as Claire at the end. Apologies in advance, this long rant has been brought to you by a cloudy and uncertain set of memories, as well as gaps that include many offshoots and even some main line titles in the final fantasy series. So I may be missing significant details that disrupt the very foundation of my statements, making it's consumption entirely wasted. lol Either way, I enjoyed the videos, and the discussion.
@@ZoransFantasy-pv4vi Apparently youtube ate my excessively long response, so I'll loosely summarize: Agreed, but in learning Jenova's story, and inferring facts from that, we can establish that Jenova is likely capable of regeneration and immortality. She doesn't seem to require any type of sustenance in order to survive, but based on her lifestyle, we can assume that she gains something from destroying planets, so for the purposes of this explanation, I'll say she consumes planet's will, since, y'know, we all know how good for the body that can be. We know that she travels for uncertain amounts of time, but probability says millenia at the shortest for her to have 'arrived on, consumed, and shuttled ahead for the next' several planets to date, to constitute as being her 'plan' or 'intention'. We know that these planets are dead, so no food or water for many lightyears of travel, no air likely, since we know that when Jenova arrives to the current planet, that her 'shuttle' was only large enough to cause the north crater. Not a small crater, but in planetary terms, not particularly significant. We do know that Jenova essentially acts like a virus and as such, infects, corrupts, and consumes energy. So this matches what I've elaborated thus far. As such, it's reasonable to 'infer' that Jenova, as an alien, is immortal and regenerative, 'until the energy runs out'. Which like most viruses, won't run out so long as their exists more to consume and infect. Personally, I would attribute Jenova to be an entity comprised of void. Like a Zerg Queen, who's responsibility is to be tossed out to claim more terrain. Alternatively, due to Jenova's viral nature, and very instinctual mentality as depicted in the base game, you could also make an argument that Jenova is the void itself, the will of the void made flesh. She doesn't seem to have complex thoughts or plans in her modern form, which could be attributed to being split apart, such that an individual bundle of cells is only capable of the most instinctual of wills 'reunion' for instance, but the way Sephiroth wields that power, suggests that it's capable of far more, but Jenova only has the intention of 'reunion', and even that is not domineering like we see with Sephiroth, but passive. That being said, I don't think any of seven is depicted as 'when Jenova was still in control', unless it was before current day, since Sephiroth had been in the life stream since Nibelheim. Crap went on another tangent that made it very long and likely going to get it ignored again!
Since ff1e trilogy and i have been saying that. In the last game, she literally moved to another planet with her god-like power. She helped build this new world, and ppl worshipped her and moved fast with technology thanks to Hope and the others. New world gets bigger more ppl new countries etc... zanarkand happens, summoner war, sin arrives.... After ffx-2 they shinra boy started working with the old technology left by Hope and trying to find lightning body for the immense power her cells has.... code name jenova... yrs later... shinra discovery the world stream and jenova body which was in the center of life stream source. The rest is final fantasy 7..... the story is 13, 13-2, 13-3, 10, 10-2, ff7 crisis core, ff7, ff7 advent children. Aerith is literally one of the last lightning blood line.
I love this theory. It's so unheard of and yet it could make some sense. Small thing about the meteor though. The meteor from OG FF7 wasn't supposed to be an "extinction level event", although it would have made tons of damage and probably killed a huge portion of the population. The whole point of it was to create a "wound" in the planet huge enough to draw the whole lifestream to it, so that Sephiroth could absorb it within himself and become a god (as if the guy wasn't powerful enough).
@@ofnir123 that's what they say but that's also what the northern crater is supposed to be why not just absorb the life stream there like he does at the end of the game lol slight plot hole in 7s story.
I dont think Jenova is that intelligent,for all we know she simply arrived here and started killing everyone until she was stopped,i dont think she ever planned for humans to inject her cells,Sephiroth being born and everything that happened after she was sealed
@@ZoransFantasy-pv4viI think it's because the Lifestream is too spread out and borderline sentient in its base collective form. It would try to fight back, disperse, or abandon the planet via something like Omega Weapon(Even if that wasn't Originally canon), etc. However by wounding the planet so suddenly and severely that it must send the Entire Lifestream to one singular location, he could more easily assimilate it all at once. Remember in Advent Children where Sephiroth poisoned part of the Lifestream from within via Geostigma, but then the Will of the Planet purified it once he retreated after Cloud's victory?
I really believe that yunalesca is jenova. I think the timeline is FFX-X2, FF6, FF7, FF(7RM/RB). Celes, Leo, and kefka, Terra (Tina) are the first “soldiers” (kefkas laugh is in the golden saucer of the original.) Chupon a boss in FF6 is a boss in FF7.Some summons in 7 use the same attacks as they did in 6.
This is entirely plausible, love your videos, I am waiting for your video on how M&M Mars Company and, in particular, the Mars Bar, is actually Meteor.
@@RavenGamingOverLord Sans is from Undertale. Interesting theory. I'll have to think about it. Lightning was designed to be a female Cloud and, as the creators are sneakily aware, Cloud is the actual Sephiroth. It would effectively create a Masculine/Feminine pairing that threads these different "worlds" or "ages" or however you wanna conceive it. It's probably a stretch and I'm not as intimately familiar with FF13. Anyway, interesting thought. Thanks for the vid.
I actually saw a compelling theory that Sans is Nes from Earthbound. And if you don't know what that is he's the kid with the bat that your friends cheat with when you play smash Bros.
You can easily tie in the other Final Fantasy realms by another stipulation that pops up in a lot of them, but is non DLC available in Lightning Returns, just based upon days you have passed, or areas you have visited. Namely, The White, Black, and Red Mage outfits, which were outfits that only appeared in FF1, FF3, FF5, and FF9 as mainstay character outfits, Garnet wearing the White Mage outfit when you first meet her, Vivi literally being the Black Mage, Freya being a Dragoon that dons the Red Mage outfit and those outfits being class outfits in the rest of the games mentioned. Another good theory that is possible, as most of XIII was a time crux, and Lightning Returns becomes the finale, is that she created the Final Fantasy Worlds, but as she wasn't able to understand the power to manifest a single world from the power she gained from Bhunivelze, she instead manifested many and the souls scattered throughout. In this theory, the reason those classes are powers within the crystals, is a direct result of the powers she herself inherits throughout her journey in Lightning Returns, and the worlds being created by that same power. But hey, I might know the stories of each game, I could be wrong, but it's an interesting thought.
@@ZoransFantasy-pv4vi I think way too deeply on most subjects, and I am one of the ones that actually enjoyed Lightning Returns, regardless of never getting to experience the online service in it, I'm not fond of the time gating, but I love the story, shame they didn't make the outfits fully customizable as a top, bottom, and boots at least, would have made things far more interesting, and it would almost have guaranteed big money for SquareEnix.
I think Lightning is actually prophesied to be Jenova. Not that she actually "is" Jenova, just that the stories of who she is and was, were lost to time and that they were twisted. And actually on doing research of ff13's timeline and lightning's backstory, heres another wild take: I think Lightning is actually Terra Branford's child way, way into ff6's future, like 6 or 7 centuries at least. I'm really surprised nobody ever tried connecting the war of transgressions as the war of the magi and etro's gate as the esper gate that the empire tries to use. The reason I say. Because the I'Cie are "cursed humans with great power and magic," well in a way Terra was born that way in fact in ff6 she's the only one that's born that way (apart from celes who I believe to be a genetic experiment, shes actually more up the alley to being Jenova with what the empire did to her in ff6). Well in ff6, which canonically is after the war of transgressions but before the events of ff13, the gate becomes disconnected from the esper world. So I want to imagine that anyone that tries to open it opens a door to the void and that's actually why ancient monsters are released - its not from the espers world, it's literally the same world as the unseen realm in ff13 and the interesting thing is that when Lumina looks into Lightning's heart she says it's akin to an unseen realm because if Terra is lightning's mother, she was quite literally abandoned in that unseen realm between the humans and esper's world before it was sealed. Thematically it makes sense, if Mog is the same Mog, Serah is Terra's youngest daughter, Mog would probably protect her. Also why Lightning is I'cie, Terra was cursed the same way, having power and magic and being used by some shadowy imperial guys.
From ACTUALY Non-crossdressing Female Cloud to Stinking Jenova!? Seriously Lightning has quite the Identity Crisis! (and that's not even her real name)
The cannon theory to FF is that many if not all the SE games are in a shared multiverse, and the final fantasy games reflects one-another as the prime universes. There are rifts that can occur and one person can enter another world in the multiverse, but it's a rarity like the ff14 crossover events with nier automata, ff15, and ff16. (But take account the reflections in ff14 are specific to that universe's cannon, so they are all the same universe.) Mt theory stems from an idea, many games in FF re-use named characters like Cid, Montblanc, Biggs, Wedge... they and many others appear in many games in the series... and they arent the same person in each game. My theory is every universe HAS a alternate named version of each and every character. In such a way "Jenova" may be a version of lightning, but not the one from 13. Best part is that they DO NOT have to look the same across every entry. Biggs & wedge change races across some games, like being a Roegadyn & lalafell instead of humans like in ff7. The theory stems from Dissidia, where they get pulled from their multiverse to battle. However though the Disiddia games arent cannon, events in the mmo's like ff14 prove the multiverse theory which the MMOs are cannon to the multiverse since the presence of the M'iqote in ff14/15 crossover remains in ff15 unlike other events... thus making it cannon and not a fleeting event for a crossover. There is some spinoff games that may or may not be cannon... some are even prequels confirmed to be, or spiritual sequels that retcon. take some information with a grain of salt. Also to those who say Fran was in 12 and 14, PLUS looked the same. Recall how different Rabanastre is between the 2 games and how she is without Balthier in ff14. It borrowed lore from 12 and put Rabanastre as a fallen kingdom. So different version of Fran. So ultimately the "Jenova is Lightning" theory could be true, but until we meet a character in ff7 remake named Lightning... we can't confirm nor deny! (Bonus point to my theory-making is that Lightning is a reflection of FF14's Warrior of Light since both have the soul of a god... But that would get me flack to describe that in length. lol)
There’s also the Kefka minion in xiv not sure in other translations. Unless just fan service with y’shtolla comments how it looks strangely familiar in the description with the rest of the Scions not knowing stories of the jester called kefka or how ever the rest of the description goes
"the soul of a god" I mean the Ancients there do have god-like abilities and in way their own form of immortality although I wouldn't say they're god-god Gods, maybe closer something else that is also immortal like gods, since they too, can eventually die if they choose too, after all. But yeah, some of the minions' descriptions are interesting to read and such. To me still the biggest surprise is Gilgamesh and some other stuffs too, but especially him. Although beyond 14, Stranger of Paradise also holds other interesting things to note as well too.
Jenova's purpose was made known to us a while ago. Turns out she is (or was) basically just a universal scale Chaos. Whereas Chaos would wipe out all life on Gaia to ensure as much of the lifestream as possible could be taken to another world by Omega, Jenova ensured all the lifestream contained within each planet would be sent to rejoin the greater whole. As each planet died, their lifestreams would join that of the galaxy in which they existed. in turn, when all those planets had died, the galaxy would die as well, and all that amassed lifestream would be released to the universe. We don't know what's supposed to happen *after* this, however. Opinions are generally split into two camps; 1.) the universe itself is dying and thus Jenova's true purpose is to ensure all of its lifestream can be gathered up by some kind of universal scale equivalent to Omega and carried to another; or 2.) this is simply part of the cycle, and all that lifestream is being freed up so new galaxies, containing new worlds, can be born. Whatever the case, Jenova's now been scattered beyond any hope of pulling herself together. All that remains is Sephiroth. Granted, he's far more powerful than Jenova ever thought about being, so it's entirely possible he could continue the mission. It certainly seems as if his instincts are driving him to.
Makes more sense it would be yuna, planets function the same, summoners are technically a mix of necromancers and invokers... lifestream is souls l, the pyreflies are souls... boom yuna goes full yu yevon but becomes stronger and propels herself from planet to planet and eats em up
So I have a ton to say, and that can come later... but I must first address the fact that MY Warrior of Light does NOT use a sword and shield, they use a Lance, because they're a DRG, and then they misjudge where to jump and always fall off the edge of platforms. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.
@@ZoransFantasy-pv4vi The Fighter/Knight class, that is the Warrior of Light from Dissidia and mentioned in the video, can equip daggers, swords, axes, hammers, that one katana and...a few starves, IIRC? So yeah, it fits
Remember that the clamp mangaka group came out with a series called tsubasa reservoir chronicles. So final fantasy series all exist in the same multiverse regardless.
you forgot there are ff14 outfits in ff13 series also if all FF worlds are connected.....then everything and every world is dead as metion wipes out all life in the universe except for the world of her origin (despite her efforts to do so) if in the universal chronology of the connected ff worlds, their time occurs after Endwalker, at which point they then must be colony worlds from the future time in FF14
@@idminister I do believe I said excluding the online games in FF connected the lore of both games go a long way to destroying and helping the theory hence the focus on mainline single payer games. A lot simpler and the video would have been hours long otherwise. As for the 14 outfits in LR I didn't know that they were from 14 not that I forgot. So thanks for teaching me something I didn't know!
the ff worlds ARE all connected, that is covered in ff14. they are all the reflections of the source. some of the games actually take place in the same world as ff14.
@chrisdacorte9566 that's why I didn't include the online games there are parts of the game that day they are all connected and others that say they are separate. Some say that they are thriving and others that say they have all been destroyed. I didn't feel like cherry picking the lore.
Too add to the conversation here, Dissidia and duodecim also have them connected via their story. Because it was the heros and villains of their worlds brought in to once again, like ff1, repeat the cycle of it all. And chaos(spoilers) is created through the cycles and is the big bad. So there's that.
The 14 outfits in 13 and vice versa was from a cross promotion, each Numbered Final Fantasy world is separate and isolated from each other. Even cameos of characters in other games aren't the same character as their original appearance.
So in my opinion there are 3 potential candidates for the identity of Jenova. We can throw in Light for the more reaching theory, as if the Cetra are the cleansed people who came to Gaia with Light, there wouldn't really be a reason for them to conflict with her as they all know for a fact that she's a goddess and their saviour. Another thing that punches a hole in that theory is the fact that the Cetra were pre-existing on Gaia before Jenova's meteor arrived. The last hole is motivation. Just as if the cleansed denizens of Pulse turned Cetra would have no reason to turn on Lightning, she would have no reason to try and drain the lifestream. Option 2, Dissidia Lore: Nil The Lufenian Administrator is Jenova. After being thwarted by Garland the Lufenians banished her to dimension 7 (due to her going rogue with her obsession with Jack and the four fiends). Seething with anger as she began to embody Chaos in a world that didn't have it (sans the Weapon created by the lifestream to balance Omega that is), she descended on Gaia and immediately targeted the Lifestream, much to the ire of the Cetra. Fast forward to the Shinra Era, the Shinra scientists discover her body and begin experimenting on replicating her abilities into humes. And since the Strangers are Lufenian agents, Shinra unknowingly created 3 Strangers in Sephiroth, Angeal and Genesis, of which all other SOLDIERs are derived from, which is why they are often depicted as significantly stronger than normal SOLDIERs, bc they were the closest to being true Strangers. Option 3, Fringe Connection Lore: Zalera the Death Seraph is Jenova. There's tons of overlap in the general FF Shared Mythos. One could retroactively apply the references the Scions of Darkness from FFXII make to previous villains as the identity of the villains themselves. Most of them are forces of entropic nature anyway so it's non-destructive to their lore and roles within their respective games (with the exception of maybe Emperor Mateus). The espers may or may not have the ability to jump dimensions (we don't know bc we don't get much on their true abilities before they get bound to mortals), and the names differing could just be a simple case of translation garbling. Zalera could translate to ancient Cetra as something else, which would translate into Modern Gaian Common as Jenova (Like taking a word and throwing it into Google Translate and translating through 6 different languages with differing syntax). Boom, mixing Mist and Mako and you get super soldiers. And since Espers can't be killed (per se) this would explain how she was able to be separated into several parts before being brought down to a cellular level. Honorable Mention (and probably the least destructive as it's within universe), FFX Lore: Yunalesca escaped the Farplane when the Guado abandoned Guadosalam, and instead of turning fiend and attempting revenge, she saw that her father had been perma-death'd and left Spira for Gaia. (It's important to note that Nomura said same world. Not same planet. In Nomura terms a world can basically just be a universe or pocket dimension).
I always thought the Jenova body we saw was from an actual Cetra woman who became infected by the Jenova alien since whenever we fight her she's a mutated abomination and not an undead anime waifu.
@ZoransFantasy-pv4vi Online lore? FF14 is a main numbered game like any other main FF game. I'm curious about why you would leave it out of your theories.
@houayangthe3rd because they hold a lot of things that both strengthen and disprove the theory and I didn't want to make a two hour video nitpicking the differences and chosing what ones make it into the theory and witch ones didn't. Example of I remember right when you start getting into the cross over content it states that all the worlds are separate and thriving but I think one of the Meteoin sisters states that they've destroyed all other worlds so those alone counter act each other. It would be too much of a headache to sort through it all. At least for me. It wasn't worth it.
@@ZoransFantasy-pv4vi World of Final Fantasy resolves this. All FF games (and arguably all SE games) take place in a shared 9-part Extraverse. The Extraversal parts are made up of multiple worlds/dimensions and/or universes with 9 different cosmological rule sets. Currently 3 types of worlds are known. Alexander Worlds or A Worlds for short have Limit Breaks. Endwalker explains why that is. Dynamis/Chaos is most likely the reason for that. Bahamut Worlds or B Worlds have no LB's and are pure might makes right and therefore are a bit more like Dragon Quest. Diablos Worlds or D Worlds are worlds that function like dreams and/or nightmares where you can effectively lucid dream to hack reality like Kingdom Hearts.
I mean,its not about thinking it or not. FFX-2 made a direct connection,the director confirmed it and then it was used again on the remake. You can like it or not but it is totally canon
its funny.. when i played ff7 i was also playing wild arms.. both had a space based monster who ate worlds. Jenova and "Mother" the difference being Jenova was a chopped up space zombie and mother was alive and had breed countless Living Metal Demons who serve as the main enemy. 2 of my first ps1 games. Maybe those two need some deeper looks on how space world eaters work. Also Lavos did both their jobs earlier.
@@alexshinra6722 true but it twas only stated there isn't anyone alive to recall it to know for sure except Janova herself and she's not very talkative. Lol I suppose this was more of a what if then a theory but it was a fun idea so I did it.
@alexshinra6722 that might work? Depends on whether or not you think she can return after you fight her in 10. I don't remember if Yuna sends her or not but if she didn't then yeah that could fit.
@ZoransFantasy-pv4vi this is the thing i dont remmber yuna sending her ether, just the fight was over and everyone saying they just find a new way, also polymorph magic and soul/health absorb magic are all skills she had and she wouldnt be the first person to leave there planet and go looking for a new one heck maybe she lost her mind after geneocideing a two or three. Now before anyone says but wiat that mean shinra is like stuiped old and to that i say time travel as why not its slapped every where else.
Maybe not as interesting but I think Jenova is just a lovecraftian horror shapeshifting into a human like form to gain the trust of the Cetra. I don't think Sephiroth defeated her will either. She absorbed him and took on his form.
I would have to double check but I am pretty sure that its stated that sephiroth had full control over what Janova was doing through-out the game. Using his form specifically to lure cloud and shinra to the northern crater.
@@fefnireindraer144 I personally agree but I'm pretty sure that it's basically cannon that sephiroth is one of the strongest characters in final fantasy.
not a chance, Lightning did arrive on Earth sure, but Jenova Arrived and made a CRATER upon doing so, Lightning, along with the rest of her people just appeared in a similar appearance to the Lifestream, she merely turned the lives of the living and dead into the lifestream of HER world and my guess is that merged with Earths. EDIT: i would LOVE to see a game where Lightning AND Cloud fight Jenova, i don't think The Thing inspired nightmare would stand a change with those two LMFAO! Reason being, if she used her lightning magic/attacks, that shit is hotter than the surface of the sun, Cloud is pretty durable and strong in his right.
No. Every FF number (1, 2... 13) is its own universe. It may be inspired, but it is not. Done. They only talk with their own collection like X and X-2.
@ underworld and heavenly realm are two side of the same coin. Plus if you take the fact that tidus is a sport being(guardian angel) plus you can link final fantasy x summoner as centurions( due to the fact they were the most connected to the planet and were able to send soul back to the life stream. Like 7 take place I believe 500-1000 years after. Tech sin was similar to the omega weapons when you think about it
@kingzoe16 my mythology knowledge isn't the greatest but out of the bits and pieces I do know that's only Christian mythology. Most others weather sinner or saint get sent to the same realm and just end up in different spots in that realm. And I doubt a game made in a country with next to no Christian/Catholic members took that as inspiration but ya never know.
i really wish they'd make a FFXIII Trilogy Collection already. I actually loved XIII but it's been forever since I played it, XIII-2 I barely remember, and I never got to play Lightning Returns
I don't know why they don't they've made re-releases and special editions of every other game up to 15 at this point. And there have been rumors of an upscaled 16 already. I suppose with the exception of the MMO's
I wouldve said she was Ultimecia before her. I say ultimecia because of the concept of time. Also, what if she wanted to achieve time compression because she wanted to save Sera in that timeline?
I prefer the idea that lucrecia is the jenova for the next life cycle. Ever repeating and adapting to new life from her crystallised immortal corpse lol
@ZoransFantasy-pv4vi each cycle jenova evolves like a virus. Each cycle jenovas body is destroyed but preserved in crystal before cloud even gets to midgar. So the only way to stop it is if vincent kills her himself lol
@@sethwagner5099 An interview with Yishanori Katase (Director of Square Enix) was asked in the fan theory of X being a prequel to seven was true and he said yes. Then it was stated again in one of the ultimania guides.
No I'll do you one even better. I have a wild head canon that connect FF8 into these..so in FFX in order to attain the final Aeon, you pretty much sacrifice one of your guardians...like guardian forces from FF8? Let's say the Rinoa is Ultimecia theory holds water..squall in a moment of desperation sacs himself to help Rinoa win. I've always found that as something to connect FF8 with FFX and with the Shinra connections to FF7 and the lightning connects to FF7...we're finally solving the puzzle
Just a bit of technical feedback, early i. The video you had alot of breathing or some environmental nosies coming through and off and on throughout the video. If you don’t use one a pop filter and wind sprint would help (the foam on the end of the microphone, or the little guard you place in front of one). Just some criticism to consider for earphone users. Good video overall keep it up.
But are you brave enough to somehow connect Cloud from FF7 to Cloud of Darkness from FF3? So FF7 becomes the battle of the calamities from the skies... (this is only partially a joke, fyi!)
Man I have not played 13 or any of those games since they came out. Only series I did not play multiple times haha. Possibly cause of growing up and having those responsibilities and work stuff 😅. Not a crazy theory though… It would be funny to see more of these stories interwoven. Like if kotr in the last of the new trilogy turns out to be 12 “knights” from the previous games and “Arthur” is Noctis or something. Could be cool but then again no… haha
I had to stop once you said Sephiroth won the battle of wills, allowing him to control Jenova like a puppet on a string. You haven't played Rebirth yet, have you? Or if you have...Rewatch the scene at the Temple of the Ancients, where the Cetra are explaining the history of Jenova.
Unpopular opinion: Final Fantasy games are all seperate stories and shpuld stay that way. Trying to connect them in disperate ways like "Oh shinra flew from one planet to another" or even sillier "Lightening is Jenova" cheapens their stories tenfold and we shpuld stop trying to do it.
@@ThepurposeofTime Enuo from 5 is cloud of darkness is a theory I proposed in my connected worlds video Jenova is cloud of darkness is an interesting thought
@ haven’t played 5 yet. Jenova at the end of ff7 literally looks like cloud of darkness in the final battle of 3. All of cloud of darkness concept art in her normal form just looks like jenova but with the tentacles, even the covered breast is the same, hair colour etc. Just checked Enou, it’s a guy. If anything it’s very likely a last manifestation of Sephiroth. A Sephiroth is a human fully compatible with Jenova cells. It’s almost like it’s Jenova in spirit, an Avatar of Jenova
@ThepurposeofTime you think this www.google.com/search?q=cloud+of+darkness&oq=cloud+of+darkness&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqCggAEAAY4wIYgAQyCggAEAAY4wIYgAQyBwgBEC4YgAQyDQgCEAAYgwEYsQMYgAQyBwgDEAAYgAQyBwgEEAAYgAQyBwgFEAAYgAQyBwgGEAAYgAQyBwgHEAAYgAQyBwgIEAAYgAQyBwgJEAAYgAQyBwgKEAAYgAQyBwgLEAAYgAQyBwgMEAAYgAQyBwgNEAAYgAQyBwgOEAAYgATSAQg2MDkxajBqN6gCFLACAQ&client=ms-android-tmus-us-rvc3&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#vhid=f4ZCKRj54h_GSM&vssid=l And this: www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-tmus-us-rvc3&sca_esv=0734fda996d53699&sxsrf=ADLYWIKr0q62TTFH4Z3reoPzpYP34BSpbQ:1732023259553&q=jenova+synthesis&udm=2&fbs=AEQNm0DmfTgc7tU04ONiC4SZ2zg3RT2rNGFt-PO6C2cWvmZVUg8CrsXqKTato6BkjlXJ9NeEH4kb3BRANN-itCYAhId-Q0KiBgjRosb_Do1ZWt2wFhIe_LPJkKtalPLd-aeSI0P5OIBGZfSjU1MuO_h5k_WqWDvtWdt3lM75fe-HdPhBHurTHyjP9jWsHpEb99EPA4CTWIEOf0asdHYyXF-2UH1643IbJEBctS6rmnrI1FzpQnNmXbk&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi5jYO5weiJAxVx4MkDHUkMB18QtKgLegQIEhAB&biw=412&bih=772&dpr=1.75 Look alike?
@@eddy5097 I've had a couple people ask me to do a more in depth version cuz they like the idea so it's not nobody lol I've also been considering doing a yunalesca is janova video as it wouldn't rely on a connected worlds theory as much. And yunalesca is far more likely assuming she finds a way to get a physical body again after her defeat and not just her unsent form.
@@ZoransFantasy-pv4vi I would beg to differ, but to each their own. FF13 is my second most disliked FF game, and one of the main reasons is the characters. Didn't really click with any of them, along with a host of other issues. But again, that's just me. 😆
@snappertrx 13 isn't the greatest. 13/2 is slightly better but still not great but LR is one of my favorites. The only super bad part about LR is that hope never shuts the fuck up lol
...fal'Cie, l'Cie... Pulse, sanctum... Rebrum, class zero...white tiger... Information only given in bit and pieces...coming from dead memories... awakens deformed carcass only mentally... Subdued by hybrid emanations... Bridged by decrepid kinship... Enters madness refined... Words and expressions turns to shape and void after countless millennia...meaning nothing but dormant warmth... ----- 😒 and.... just like let's that inspiration gone 😄
Uh yo you need to read the FFX book about coming to Terra, Jenova is Yunalesca, Rufus Shinra is "Shinra's" descendant. The people Cloud is descendant of are the people of spira that came to Terra. THe book is official and made by Square. Theres no theroy, just fact. It's also why in remake and rebirth the summons look similar.
@@AtticusRh0des considering the world isn't named Terra and the Yunalesca statement is also just another popular reddit theory I would love to hear the name of the book so I can fact check this lol Terra is the name of the earth in ff9 in FF7 it's called Gaia lol
@@AtticusRh0des if you are talking about the Japanese only ultimania guide that was released the only thing it states in that is that shinra from x-2 eventually founded the shinra electric power company . And I do own that book and have read it several times
Great video, for me my Theory is that Jenova is the defeated body of the Cloud of Darkness from FF3 that lost its memory but instinctually still wanted to consume life
@@seven2653 I would really like to know where people keep getting France from. Is it stated in a book somewhere I missed? Because the final shot of the game shows lightning getting off a train in the middle of the country side with nothing but farm land around.
@@seven2653 if your referring to the writing on the buildings being in French I would have to guess that was due to the European localization being the same as ours because in the Japanese version of that scene the writing on the buildings is in Japanese. Not proof she is in France just a weird localization thing for the cutscene.
I mean the ending, she steps out of a train and has "normal" clothing and the setting is European-like... I think it was France, but I can't remember too well Bunivelze (or whatever the name was of the final boss/god) created this new world where she settled with all other characters of the game... All the souls she saved
As far as I know, the world of FF13 was destroyed afterwards, but idk its been over 10 years since I played the game... I could be wrong on some details
@@seven2653 it was destroyed by chaos and lightning guides the souls of buenivelza's ark to a new world I just love how everyone thinks that its france on our world due to a localization error is all lol its never officially stated what world it is.
Dude Lightning is literally in France. And the vehicles there look nothing like Gaia's vehicles in ff7. And there's also an airplane. Ff7 doesn't have airplanes. They have air ships.
@@Zephyr_Weiss I had to rewatch this cutscene after other people commented the same thing. I have no idea where you got the plane from cuz there isn't one. The vehicles are a weak argument as they change with time but I suppose that's fair. The only thing suggesting French is the righting in buildings which is a localization thing for the English/European releases the Japanese version of the cutscene has Japanese on them.
@ZoransFantasy-pv4vi when Lightning got off the train, there was an airplane in the sky. Airships from any final fantasy game don't make those trails in the sky.
I think you're reading too deep into square being lazy
@@Fingerknee probably but doing it for fun
😂
Considering who helmed FF13 it could honestly be both.
Eh it’s more fun to read into it then just simply say that
Fanfiction
Wait but bleach fanfiction became canon
i really like the theory, when i was playing Lightning returns i got the light impression about what you're talking mid way through.
Thank you!
She's in France. Not Gaia
had to rewatch this cutscene after other people commented the same thing. The only thing suggesting French is the righting in buildings which is a localization thing for the English/European releases the Japanese version of the cutscene has Japanese on them. The world they go to has never offically been named but is assumed to be "earth". The main point of them being the same world of this theory is that Watching the cutsceen the river of souls lightning leads looks the exact same as the lifestream and the planet she leads them to fallows the same path as Seifer Sephiroths Supernova. And lands on the same planet that attack is focused on.
I genuinely thought it was the myth of humanity as in - us. Which I loved.
She fought for humanity to be reborn on "earth" and that's why we don't have crystals and eidolons.."the legend of the crystals is over, vanished into a past and a time that never was."
As a die hard absolute fanboy ff13 trilogy obsessed individual I prefer to think of it like that lmao
This is a fun idea, I've heard a similar theory claiming that Jenova was a remnant of the Yuel Chaos Amalgamation
Unhelpful comment: Technically, even if Jenova is Lightning, they'd still be an 'alien', as basically it just means foreigner, and Lightning would be a foreign entity to this world none the less. However, I accept that not stipulating 'immortal' alien, doesn't actually resolve your dislike of the terminology.
@@matthewsuttles8209 ya got me there lol it's not that I disliked the terminology more that the idea of a plain alien being able to survive as long as janova does doesn't sound as possible as an immortal "alien" is more what I meant
@@ZoransFantasy-pv4vi Random thought after reading your comment: Jenova is an entity that 'survives' the destruction of a planet, and potentially the vacuum of space as it 'rides' the husks, for N lightyears between destinations, in which N could be tens, hundreds, thousands, millions, or even billions per trip. So, now that I think about it... I think Jenova's immortality is somewhat 'inferred'. Perhaps not outright stated, as generally speaking 'everything dies' if it dies in battle in a JRPG, be it gods, clouds, or player characters, if it's not justa K.O. We can assume Jenova has a lifespan of many millenia at the very least, and probably infinitely so if we assume that she's done this to multiple planets. Biologically, we can also assume that Jenova doesn't require consumption to survive, as drifting on a dead planet doesn't accommodate anything. If Jenova doesn't require 'any' sustenance, or survives on a planet's will as it would presumably be based upon it's lifestyle, then Jenova is effectively a planet herself after devouring many wills, and as such is capable of regeneration and immortality until they run out of 'energy'. Jenova is depicted as more of a virus, that consumes and corrupts, but if you consume and corrupt multiple planets, presumably you've got 'multiple planets' worth of energy from it. I would personally categorize Jenova as either 'Void' herself, or an 'entity comprised of void'. And while Lightning doesn't 'not' reflect this description herself at times. >_> If we assumed Lightning was Jenova, in my depiction of Jenova, that would make thirteen the 'beginning' of the void, that all life comes from, and that inevitably, all life returns to. That isn't impossible, but really undermines Lightning living as Claire at the end.
Apologies in advance, this long rant has been brought to you by a cloudy and uncertain set of memories, as well as gaps that include many offshoots and even some main line titles in the final fantasy series. So I may be missing significant details that disrupt the very foundation of my statements, making it's consumption entirely wasted. lol Either way, I enjoyed the videos, and the discussion.
@@ZoransFantasy-pv4vi Apparently youtube ate my excessively long response, so I'll loosely summarize: Agreed, but in learning Jenova's story, and inferring facts from that, we can establish that Jenova is likely capable of regeneration and immortality. She doesn't seem to require any type of sustenance in order to survive, but based on her lifestyle, we can assume that she gains something from destroying planets, so for the purposes of this explanation, I'll say she consumes planet's will, since, y'know, we all know how good for the body that can be. We know that she travels for uncertain amounts of time, but probability says millenia at the shortest for her to have 'arrived on, consumed, and shuttled ahead for the next' several planets to date, to constitute as being her 'plan' or 'intention'. We know that these planets are dead, so no food or water for many lightyears of travel, no air likely, since we know that when Jenova arrives to the current planet, that her 'shuttle' was only large enough to cause the north crater. Not a small crater, but in planetary terms, not particularly significant. We do know that Jenova essentially acts like a virus and as such, infects, corrupts, and consumes energy. So this matches what I've elaborated thus far. As such, it's reasonable to 'infer' that Jenova, as an alien, is immortal and regenerative, 'until the energy runs out'. Which like most viruses, won't run out so long as their exists more to consume and infect.
Personally, I would attribute Jenova to be an entity comprised of void. Like a Zerg Queen, who's responsibility is to be tossed out to claim more terrain. Alternatively, due to Jenova's viral nature, and very instinctual mentality as depicted in the base game, you could also make an argument that Jenova is the void itself, the will of the void made flesh. She doesn't seem to have complex thoughts or plans in her modern form, which could be attributed to being split apart, such that an individual bundle of cells is only capable of the most instinctual of wills 'reunion' for instance, but the way Sephiroth wields that power, suggests that it's capable of far more, but Jenova only has the intention of 'reunion', and even that is not domineering like we see with Sephiroth, but passive. That being said, I don't think any of seven is depicted as 'when Jenova was still in control', unless it was before current day, since Sephiroth had been in the life stream since Nibelheim.
Crap went on another tangent that made it very long and likely going to get it ignored again!
We know that Luna Freya is Jenova bro.
@@ZoransFantasy-pv4vi have you heard about the yuna is jenova theory
I really like this idea , when they remake ff13 I’ll expect them to tie it together with ff7 remake now
I need a full in-depth detailed explanation on these points. There’s got to be more to this theory.
I don't see how Light could ever become Jenova. I think the Yunalesca theory is the best IMO.
Isn’t Ff10 actually the real sequel to ff7
@@Solavationffx is ff vii prequel, I think.
@@chileball9696 Shinra from X-2 goes to make the Shinra Corporation that we know of in FFVII.
@@SolavationNo
It makes a bit more sense compared to lightning theory.
Since ff1e trilogy and i have been saying that. In the last game, she literally moved to another planet with her god-like power. She helped build this new world, and ppl worshipped her and moved fast with technology thanks to Hope and the others.
New world gets bigger more ppl new countries etc... zanarkand happens, summoner war, sin arrives....
After ffx-2 they shinra boy started working with the old technology left by Hope and trying to find lightning body for the immense power her cells has.... code name jenova... yrs later... shinra discovery the world stream and jenova body which was in the center of life stream source. The rest is final fantasy 7..... the story is 13, 13-2, 13-3, 10, 10-2, ff7 crisis core, ff7, ff7 advent children.
Aerith is literally one of the last lightning blood line.
😮
I love this theory. It's so unheard of and yet it could make some sense.
Small thing about the meteor though. The meteor from OG FF7 wasn't supposed to be an "extinction level event", although it would have made tons of damage and probably killed a huge portion of the population.
The whole point of it was to create a "wound" in the planet huge enough to draw the whole lifestream to it, so that Sephiroth could absorb it within himself and become a god (as if the guy wasn't powerful enough).
@@ofnir123 that's what they say but that's also what the northern crater is supposed to be why not just absorb the life stream there like he does at the end of the game lol slight plot hole in 7s story.
@@ZoransFantasy-pv4vi I see your point, but I believe the crater is more of a "scar" than a wound. Still a pretty good point you're making.
I dont think Jenova is that intelligent,for all we know she simply arrived here and started killing everyone until she was stopped,i dont think she ever planned for humans to inject her cells,Sephiroth being born and everything that happened after she was sealed
@@ZoransFantasy-pv4viI think it's because the Lifestream is too spread out and borderline sentient in its base collective form. It would try to fight back, disperse, or abandon the planet via something like Omega Weapon(Even if that wasn't Originally canon), etc. However by wounding the planet so suddenly and severely that it must send the Entire Lifestream to one singular location, he could more easily assimilate it all at once.
Remember in Advent Children where Sephiroth poisoned part of the Lifestream from within via Geostigma, but then the Will of the Planet purified it once he retreated after Cloud's victory?
nah if anything yunalesca is jenova. the creators literally said the two games are in the same universe as eachother in a interview.
Which is later debuked as not true.
In fact it is
Yunalesca os from what game?
@@lukasperuzovic1429 I'll have to see that because the interview I watched was the creators of final fantasy saying from their own mouths.
@@yellowflash214Final Fantasy 10
I really believe that yunalesca is jenova.
I think the timeline is FFX-X2, FF6, FF7, FF(7RM/RB).
Celes, Leo, and kefka, Terra (Tina) are the first “soldiers” (kefkas laugh is in the golden saucer of the original.)
Chupon a boss in FF6 is a boss in FF7.Some summons in 7 use the same attacks as they did in 6.
This is entirely plausible, love your videos, I am waiting for your video on how M&M Mars Company and, in particular, the Mars Bar, is actually Meteor.
@@Not.Giuseppe I now have a video idea for April thanks XD
Lightning is actually Sans
Who’s that?
I have never heard of him
@@RavenGamingOverLord
Sans is from Undertale.
Interesting theory. I'll have to think about it.
Lightning was designed to be a female Cloud and, as the creators are sneakily aware, Cloud is the actual Sephiroth. It would effectively create a Masculine/Feminine pairing that threads these different "worlds" or "ages" or however you wanna conceive it.
It's probably a stretch and I'm not as intimately familiar with FF13.
Anyway, interesting thought. Thanks for the vid.
I actually saw a compelling theory that Sans is Nes from Earthbound. And if you don't know what that is he's the kid with the bat that your friends cheat with when you play smash Bros.
You can easily tie in the other Final Fantasy realms by another stipulation that pops up in a lot of them, but is non DLC available in Lightning Returns, just based upon days you have passed, or areas you have visited.
Namely, The White, Black, and Red Mage outfits, which were outfits that only appeared in FF1, FF3, FF5, and FF9 as mainstay character outfits, Garnet wearing the White Mage outfit when you first meet her, Vivi literally being the Black Mage, Freya being a Dragoon that dons the Red Mage outfit and those outfits being class outfits in the rest of the games mentioned.
Another good theory that is possible, as most of XIII was a time crux, and Lightning Returns becomes the finale, is that she created the Final Fantasy Worlds, but as she wasn't able to understand the power to manifest a single world from the power she gained from Bhunivelze, she instead manifested many and the souls scattered throughout.
In this theory, the reason those classes are powers within the crystals, is a direct result of the powers she herself inherits throughout her journey in Lightning Returns, and the worlds being created by that same power.
But hey, I might know the stories of each game, I could be wrong, but it's an interesting thought.
@@BLAFGAFLRETURNS I like this line of thinking.
@@ZoransFantasy-pv4vi I think way too deeply on most subjects, and I am one of the ones that actually enjoyed Lightning Returns, regardless of never getting to experience the online service in it, I'm not fond of the time gating, but I love the story, shame they didn't make the outfits fully customizable as a top, bottom, and boots at least, would have made things far more interesting, and it would almost have guaranteed big money for SquareEnix.
I think Lightning is actually prophesied to be Jenova. Not that she actually "is" Jenova, just that the stories of who she is and was, were lost to time and that they were twisted. And actually on doing research of ff13's timeline and lightning's backstory, heres another wild take: I think Lightning is actually Terra Branford's child way, way into ff6's future, like 6 or 7 centuries at least. I'm really surprised nobody ever tried connecting the war of transgressions as the war of the magi and etro's gate as the esper gate that the empire tries to use. The reason I say. Because the I'Cie are "cursed humans with great power and magic," well in a way Terra was born that way in fact in ff6 she's the only one that's born that way (apart from celes who I believe to be a genetic experiment, shes actually more up the alley to being Jenova with what the empire did to her in ff6). Well in ff6, which canonically is after the war of transgressions but before the events of ff13, the gate becomes disconnected from the esper world. So I want to imagine that anyone that tries to open it opens a door to the void and that's actually why ancient monsters are released - its not from the espers world, it's literally the same world as the unseen realm in ff13 and the interesting thing is that when Lumina looks into Lightning's heart she says it's akin to an unseen realm because if Terra is lightning's mother, she was quite literally abandoned in that unseen realm between the humans and esper's world before it was sealed. Thematically it makes sense, if Mog is the same Mog, Serah is Terra's youngest daughter, Mog would probably protect her. Also why Lightning is I'cie, Terra was cursed the same way, having power and magic and being used by some shadowy imperial guys.
From ACTUALY Non-crossdressing Female Cloud to Stinking Jenova!? Seriously Lightning has quite the Identity Crisis!
(and that's not even her real name)
I thought Jenova was already proven to come from FFX and the original Shinra?
as i said on my comment in your first video... this is one of the things i never even tough about... :D... i love this theory
The cannon theory to FF is that many if not all the SE games are in a shared multiverse, and the final fantasy games reflects one-another as the prime universes. There are rifts that can occur and one person can enter another world in the multiverse, but it's a rarity like the ff14 crossover events with nier automata, ff15, and ff16. (But take account the reflections in ff14 are specific to that universe's cannon, so they are all the same universe.)
Mt theory stems from an idea, many games in FF re-use named characters like Cid, Montblanc, Biggs, Wedge... they and many others appear in many games in the series... and they arent the same person in each game. My theory is every universe HAS a alternate named version of each and every character. In such a way "Jenova" may be a version of lightning, but not the one from 13. Best part is that they DO NOT have to look the same across every entry. Biggs & wedge change races across some games, like being a Roegadyn & lalafell instead of humans like in ff7.
The theory stems from Dissidia, where they get pulled from their multiverse to battle. However though the Disiddia games arent cannon, events in the mmo's like ff14 prove the multiverse theory which the MMOs are cannon to the multiverse since the presence of the M'iqote in ff14/15 crossover remains in ff15 unlike other events... thus making it cannon and not a fleeting event for a crossover.
There is some spinoff games that may or may not be cannon... some are even prequels confirmed to be, or spiritual sequels that retcon. take some information with a grain of salt.
Also to those who say Fran was in 12 and 14, PLUS looked the same. Recall how different Rabanastre is between the 2 games and how she is without Balthier in ff14. It borrowed lore from 12 and put Rabanastre as a fallen kingdom. So different version of Fran.
So ultimately the "Jenova is Lightning" theory could be true, but until we meet a character in ff7 remake named Lightning... we can't confirm nor deny!
(Bonus point to my theory-making is that Lightning is a reflection of FF14's Warrior of Light since both have the soul of a god... But that would get me flack to describe that in length. lol)
There’s also the Kefka minion in xiv not sure in other translations. Unless just fan service with y’shtolla comments how it looks strangely familiar in the description with the rest of the Scions not knowing stories of the jester called kefka or how ever the rest of the description goes
"the soul of a god" I mean the Ancients there do have god-like abilities and in way their own form of immortality although I wouldn't say they're god-god Gods, maybe closer something else that is also immortal like gods, since they too, can eventually die if they choose too, after all.
But yeah, some of the minions' descriptions are interesting to read and such. To me still the biggest surprise is Gilgamesh and some other stuffs too, but especially him.
Although beyond 14, Stranger of Paradise also holds other interesting things to note as well too.
bro i have been talking about this for the longest time. glad to see someone else is trying to connect the dots
Hol up! A ff13 theory in 2024?! Revolving around two of my favorite ff characters?! This is gonna be interesting.
Jenova's purpose was made known to us a while ago. Turns out she is (or was) basically just a universal scale Chaos. Whereas Chaos would wipe out all life on Gaia to ensure as much of the lifestream as possible could be taken to another world by Omega, Jenova ensured all the lifestream contained within each planet would be sent to rejoin the greater whole. As each planet died, their lifestreams would join that of the galaxy in which they existed. in turn, when all those planets had died, the galaxy would die as well, and all that amassed lifestream would be released to the universe.
We don't know what's supposed to happen *after* this, however. Opinions are generally split into two camps; 1.) the universe itself is dying and thus Jenova's true purpose is to ensure all of its lifestream can be gathered up by some kind of universal scale equivalent to Omega and carried to another; or 2.) this is simply part of the cycle, and all that lifestream is being freed up so new galaxies, containing new worlds, can be born.
Whatever the case, Jenova's now been scattered beyond any hope of pulling herself together. All that remains is Sephiroth. Granted, he's far more powerful than Jenova ever thought about being, so it's entirely possible he could continue the mission. It certainly seems as if his instincts are driving him to.
Makes more sense it would be yuna, planets function the same, summoners are technically a mix of necromancers and invokers... lifestream is souls l, the pyreflies are souls... boom yuna goes full yu yevon but becomes stronger and propels herself from planet to planet and eats em up
So I have a ton to say, and that can come later... but I must first address the fact that MY Warrior of Light does NOT use a sword and shield, they use a Lance, because they're a DRG, and then they misjudge where to jump and always fall off the edge of platforms. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.
@@Ziploc_Wonder are their spears in oh ff1? 8 don't remember there being spears lol but fair enough
@@ZoransFantasy-pv4vi The Fighter/Knight class, that is the Warrior of Light from Dissidia and mentioned in the video, can equip daggers, swords, axes, hammers, that one katana and...a few starves, IIRC? So yeah, it fits
@sinmenon4347 fair enough
@@ZoransFantasy-pv4vi oh I was mostly referring to my FF14 WoL, lol
@@Ziploc_Wonder i realized that after i made my comment XD
Remember that the clamp mangaka group came out with a series called tsubasa reservoir chronicles.
So final fantasy series all exist in the same multiverse regardless.
you forgot there are ff14 outfits in ff13 series
also if all FF worlds are connected.....then everything and every world is dead
as metion wipes out all life in the universe except for the world of her origin (despite her efforts to do so)
if in the universal chronology of the connected ff worlds, their time occurs after Endwalker, at which point they then must be colony worlds from the future time in FF14
@@idminister I do believe I said excluding the online games in FF connected the lore of both games go a long way to destroying and helping the theory hence the focus on mainline single payer games. A lot simpler and the video would have been hours long otherwise. As for the 14 outfits in LR I didn't know that they were from 14 not that I forgot. So thanks for teaching me something I didn't know!
the ff worlds ARE all connected, that is covered in ff14. they are all the reflections of the source. some of the games actually take place in the same world as ff14.
@chrisdacorte9566 that's why I didn't include the online games there are parts of the game that day they are all connected and others that say they are separate. Some say that they are thriving and others that say they have all been destroyed. I didn't feel like cherry picking the lore.
Too add to the conversation here, Dissidia and duodecim also have them connected via their story.
Because it was the heros and villains of their worlds brought in to once again, like ff1, repeat the cycle of it all.
And chaos(spoilers) is created through the cycles and is the big bad.
So there's that.
The 14 outfits in 13 and vice versa was from a cross promotion, each Numbered Final Fantasy world is separate and isolated from each other.
Even cameos of characters in other games aren't the same character as their original appearance.
Biblical statement… “and I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven’.
So in my opinion there are 3 potential candidates for the identity of Jenova. We can throw in Light for the more reaching theory, as if the Cetra are the cleansed people who came to Gaia with Light, there wouldn't really be a reason for them to conflict with her as they all know for a fact that she's a goddess and their saviour. Another thing that punches a hole in that theory is the fact that the Cetra were pre-existing on Gaia before Jenova's meteor arrived. The last hole is motivation. Just as if the cleansed denizens of Pulse turned Cetra would have no reason to turn on Lightning, she would have no reason to try and drain the lifestream.
Option 2, Dissidia Lore: Nil The Lufenian Administrator is Jenova. After being thwarted by Garland the Lufenians banished her to dimension 7 (due to her going rogue with her obsession with Jack and the four fiends). Seething with anger as she began to embody Chaos in a world that didn't have it (sans the Weapon created by the lifestream to balance Omega that is), she descended on Gaia and immediately targeted the Lifestream, much to the ire of the Cetra. Fast forward to the Shinra Era, the Shinra scientists discover her body and begin experimenting on replicating her abilities into humes. And since the Strangers are Lufenian agents, Shinra unknowingly created 3 Strangers in Sephiroth, Angeal and Genesis, of which all other SOLDIERs are derived from, which is why they are often depicted as significantly stronger than normal SOLDIERs, bc they were the closest to being true Strangers.
Option 3, Fringe Connection Lore: Zalera the Death Seraph is Jenova. There's tons of overlap in the general FF Shared Mythos. One could retroactively apply the references the Scions of Darkness from FFXII make to previous villains as the identity of the villains themselves. Most of them are forces of entropic nature anyway so it's non-destructive to their lore and roles within their respective games (with the exception of maybe Emperor Mateus). The espers may or may not have the ability to jump dimensions (we don't know bc we don't get much on their true abilities before they get bound to mortals), and the names differing could just be a simple case of translation garbling. Zalera could translate to ancient Cetra as something else, which would translate into Modern Gaian Common as Jenova (Like taking a word and throwing it into Google Translate and translating through 6 different languages with differing syntax). Boom, mixing Mist and Mako and you get super soldiers. And since Espers can't be killed (per se) this would explain how she was able to be separated into several parts before being brought down to a cellular level.
Honorable Mention (and probably the least destructive as it's within universe), FFX Lore: Yunalesca escaped the Farplane when the Guado abandoned Guadosalam, and instead of turning fiend and attempting revenge, she saw that her father had been perma-death'd and left Spira for Gaia. (It's important to note that Nomura said same world. Not same planet. In Nomura terms a world can basically just be a universe or pocket dimension).
I like those ideas and as your counterpoints go that's why I did a slightly revised "what if" History in the video.
I always thought the Jenova body we saw was from an actual Cetra woman who became infected by the Jenova alien since whenever we fight her she's a mutated abomination and not an undead anime waifu.
The theory I had was that 13 ended on Spira in the farplane.... we don't know much about Pre Zanarkand we really only know about the end
love the idea and i can see why you would to it. Hopefully you make a part 2 and build upon it
I have a couple people requesting that I might go more in depth on it.
Nice theory, but wouldn't one of Meteion sisters from FF14 fit better as Jenova? You wouldn't have to do as much mental gymnastics to make it fit.
@@houayangthe3rd probably but we did the connected Theory Video without including the online lore.
@ZoransFantasy-pv4vi Online lore? FF14 is a main numbered game like any other main FF game. I'm curious about why you would leave it out of your theories.
@houayangthe3rd because they hold a lot of things that both strengthen and disprove the theory and I didn't want to make a two hour video nitpicking the differences and chosing what ones make it into the theory and witch ones didn't. Example of I remember right when you start getting into the cross over content it states that all the worlds are separate and thriving but I think one of the Meteoin sisters states that they've destroyed all other worlds so those alone counter act each other. It would be too much of a headache to sort through it all. At least for me. It wasn't worth it.
@@ZoransFantasy-pv4vi I see, thank you for explaining.
@@ZoransFantasy-pv4vi World of Final Fantasy resolves this. All FF games (and arguably all SE games) take place in a shared 9-part Extraverse. The Extraversal parts are made up of multiple worlds/dimensions and/or universes with 9 different cosmological rule sets. Currently 3 types of worlds are known. Alexander Worlds or A Worlds for short have Limit Breaks. Endwalker explains why that is. Dynamis/Chaos is most likely the reason for that. Bahamut Worlds or B Worlds have no LB's and are pure might makes right and therefore are a bit more like Dragon Quest. Diablos Worlds or D Worlds are worlds that function like dreams and/or nightmares where you can effectively lucid dream to hack reality like Kingdom Hearts.
Sin and the aliens from Spirits Within make this more vast
That's a fun and unique theory
Ahem. Jenova and Lavos from Chrono Trigger are the same celestial planet-locust-species.
I hope in some way, shape, or form Lightning returns.
Now that is a theory I've never heard of....go on
How does this affect Jenovas witnesses when they try and knock at your door are they aware of the truth?
@@Kot-fj6hc lol no idea
😂😂😂
I love this theory! It does require some revisionist history in 7's world, but who says that could not have happened?
Man I feel like this 2001 to 2004 era where people still think final fantasy x and ffx2 is a prequel to ff7. Very similar concept nice video.
@@dayj4wh030 thank you
Kitase and the X-2 Ultimania actually confirmed this.
I mean,its not about thinking it or not. FFX-2 made a direct connection,the director confirmed it and then it was used again on the remake. You can like it or not but it is totally canon
its funny.. when i played ff7 i was also playing wild arms.. both had a space based monster who ate worlds. Jenova and "Mother" the difference being Jenova was a chopped up space zombie and mother was alive and had breed countless Living Metal Demons who serve as the main enemy. 2 of my first ps1 games. Maybe those two need some deeper looks on how space world eaters work. Also Lavos did both their jobs earlier.
Now I have to try FF13. This would be a fun theory to check out.
I wonder how the direction of the remake could affect this.
Needed this thank you 🤙🏼🙏🏼🖖🏼
You are welcome.
But she stated to have crashed into the planet not grown or came from she crashed into the planet.
@@alexshinra6722 true but it twas only stated there isn't anyone alive to recall it to know for sure except Janova herself and she's not very talkative. Lol I suppose this was more of a what if then a theory but it was a fun idea so I did it.
@ZoransFantasy-pv4vi as a what if story yeah tis a fun idea but...here me out i just think janova was yunalesca rathar than lighting.
@alexshinra6722 that might work? Depends on whether or not you think she can return after you fight her in 10. I don't remember if Yuna sends her or not but if she didn't then yeah that could fit.
@ZoransFantasy-pv4vi this is the thing i dont remmber yuna sending her ether, just the fight was over and everyone saying they just find a new way, also polymorph magic and soul/health absorb magic are all skills she had and she wouldnt be the first person to leave there planet and go looking for a new one heck maybe she lost her mind after geneocideing a two or three.
Now before anyone says but wiat that mean shinra is like stuiped old and to that i say time travel as why not its slapped every where else.
@@ZoransFantasy-pv4vibro you don’t even know how Jenova is spelled. Maybe you should refrain from making theories.😊
Maybe not as interesting but I think Jenova is just a lovecraftian horror shapeshifting into a human like form to gain the trust of the Cetra. I don't think Sephiroth defeated her will either. She absorbed him and took on his form.
I would have to double check but I am pretty sure that its stated that sephiroth had full control over what Janova was doing through-out the game. Using his form specifically to lure cloud and shinra to the northern crater.
lightning is actually lightning my guy, imagine that
Really? Wow never thought of it that way new video idea thanks lol.
But wait, weren't the Cetra there on the planet before Jenova showed up?
@@staccatodavid9842 according to ancient tales and legends yes. That is 7s cannon.
Lightning losing to Sephiroth is comical.
@@fefnireindraer144 I personally agree but I'm pretty sure that it's basically cannon that sephiroth is one of the strongest characters in final fantasy.
We Dissidiaing Up in here today!!
When was it confirmed that 7 and 10 take place in the same world? There’s no similarities between the two at all.
@@OreWaLavai square Enix director interview at a con I have it linked in another comment if you want to check it out.
Source-I got this out of my ass....
@@Pollote56grueso Exactly hence why the kids now call it "good shit" these days it's all pulled from their asses
not a chance, Lightning did arrive on Earth sure, but Jenova Arrived and made a CRATER upon doing so, Lightning, along with the rest of her people just appeared in a similar appearance to the Lifestream, she merely turned the lives of the living and dead into the lifestream of HER world and my guess is that merged with Earths.
EDIT: i would LOVE to see a game where Lightning AND Cloud fight Jenova, i don't think The Thing inspired nightmare would stand a change with those two LMFAO!
Reason being, if she used her lightning magic/attacks, that shit is hotter than the surface of the sun, Cloud is pretty durable and strong in his right.
No. Every FF number (1, 2... 13) is its own universe. It may be inspired, but it is not. Done.
They only talk with their own collection like X and X-2.
Nope. It is strongly hinted at that the Shinra from FF 10 went to Gaia in FF7 and founded the Shinra company.
final fantasy x showed a heavenly world its where you met yunas father
@@kingzoe16 I view that as more underworld then heavenly realm but fair
@ underworld and heavenly realm are two side of the same coin. Plus if you take the fact that tidus is a sport being(guardian angel) plus you can link final fantasy x summoner as centurions( due to the fact they were the most connected to the planet and were able to send soul back to the life stream. Like 7 take place I believe 500-1000 years after. Tech sin was similar to the omega weapons when you think about it
@kingzoe16 then being the sides of the same coin depend on the religion but again fair point.
@@ZoransFantasy-pv4vi well to be fair when they went to those plains evil souls did not appear technically evil souls were taken by sin
@kingzoe16 my mythology knowledge isn't the greatest but out of the bits and pieces I do know that's only Christian mythology. Most others weather sinner or saint get sent to the same realm and just end up in different spots in that realm. And I doubt a game made in a country with next to no Christian/Catholic members took that as inspiration but ya never know.
Incredibly unlikely but would be funny if this idea was referenced in a small way like the Ultmecia is Rinoa theory was somewhat!😂😂🤔
VII and X were confirmed to be in the same world?
@@Diamonddeath according to yishanori katase and one of the ultimania books yes.
i really wish they'd make a FFXIII Trilogy Collection already. I actually loved XIII but it's been forever since I played it, XIII-2 I barely remember, and I never got to play Lightning Returns
I don't know why they don't they've made re-releases and special editions of every other game up to 15 at this point. And there have been rumors of an upscaled 16 already. I suppose with the exception of the MMO's
I wouldve said she was Ultimecia before her. I say ultimecia because of the concept of time. Also, what if she wanted to achieve time compression because she wanted to save Sera in that timeline?
Sarah is saved as of lighting returns.
Cool story for a fanfic
I prefer the idea that lucrecia is the jenova for the next life cycle. Ever repeating and adapting to new life from her crystallised immortal corpse lol
@@cmdrlevianova1485 so that would make her both sephiroth's birth mother and make spephiroth calling janova his mother real? Interesting thought
@ZoransFantasy-pv4vi each cycle jenova evolves like a virus. Each cycle jenovas body is destroyed but preserved in crystal before cloud even gets to midgar. So the only way to stop it is if vincent kills her himself lol
How would that work, they are not in the same world?
I always thought Ultimecia was Jenova for some odd reason. lol
Where do you get your source that final fantasy 10 in final fantasy VII are the same world. Everything I look up says that they're not.
@@sethwagner5099 An interview with Yishanori Katase (Director of Square Enix) was asked in the fan theory of X being a prequel to seven was true and he said yes. Then it was stated again in one of the ultimania guides.
@@sethwagner5099 ua-cam.com/video/BA1gwFKq7u0/v-deo.htmlsi=0s8_2sxlsrM9-ydg
Is the interview if you want to watch it.
Well.... This.... wow... I mean I know it's just a theory, but WOW it would be insane if they made it canon! GG, good video, I'll sub!
@@samuel57501 thank you.
No I'll do you one even better. I have a wild head canon that connect FF8 into these..so in FFX in order to attain the final Aeon, you pretty much sacrifice one of your guardians...like guardian forces from FF8? Let's say the Rinoa is Ultimecia theory holds water..squall in a moment of desperation sacs himself to help Rinoa win. I've always found that as something to connect FF8 with FFX and with the Shinra connections to FF7 and the lightning connects to FF7...we're finally solving the puzzle
No I think she is what is left is lunalesca and sin from ff 10.
Interesting, Lightning's appearance is literally supposed to be a female Cloud
I am a fan of jenova being a sin spawn thoery
Just a bit of technical feedback, early i. The video you had alot of breathing or some environmental nosies coming through and off and on throughout the video.
If you don’t use one a pop filter and wind sprint would help (the foam on the end of the microphone, or the little guard you place in front of one).
Just some criticism to consider for earphone users.
Good video overall keep it up.
@@the_sid thanks for the input I do have a pop filter but finding a proper spot for it with the way my desk is set up has been a challenge lol
Would that mean Sephiroth has to call Lightning mommy?
I don't know why this made me laugh so hard but yeah technically
But are you brave enough to somehow connect Cloud from FF7 to Cloud of Darkness from FF3? So FF7 becomes the battle of the calamities from the skies... (this is only partially a joke, fyi!)
I've actually contemplated doing that exact thing as an april fools joke. We will have to see how much merit it holds after i do more research on it.
Man I have not played 13 or any of those games since they came out. Only series I did not play multiple times haha.
Possibly cause of growing up and having those responsibilities and work stuff 😅.
Not a crazy theory though…
It would be funny to see more of these stories interwoven. Like if kotr in the last of the new trilogy turns out to be 12 “knights” from the previous games and “Arthur” is Noctis or something.
Could be cool but then again no… haha
I had to stop once you said Sephiroth won the battle of wills, allowing him to control Jenova like a puppet on a string. You haven't played Rebirth yet, have you? Or if you have...Rewatch the scene at the Temple of the Ancients, where the Cetra are explaining the history of Jenova.
I have not including any of the remake/rebirth stuff till the last game comes out though.
The remakes are garbage and literally changed the canon of that story. They don't count.
Unpopular opinion: Final Fantasy games are all seperate stories and shpuld stay that way. Trying to connect them in disperate ways like "Oh shinra flew from one planet to another" or even sillier "Lightening is Jenova" cheapens their stories tenfold and we shpuld stop trying to do it.
perhaps not a popular one but a valid one
It’s also been canonically disproven by Square putting the character of Shinra in FF7Remake
Jenova is also super similar to Lavos from Chrono Trigger... 🤔
Someone let him cooked
We all know it's Yunalesca!
I came here for the memes
Jenova = Cloud of Darkness
So you might want to look deeper at Cloud of Darkness
@@ThepurposeofTime Enuo from 5 is cloud of darkness is a theory I proposed in my connected worlds video Jenova is cloud of darkness is an interesting thought
@ haven’t played 5 yet. Jenova at the end of ff7 literally looks like cloud of darkness in the final battle of 3. All of cloud of darkness concept art in her normal form just looks like jenova but with the tentacles, even the covered breast is the same, hair colour etc.
Just checked Enou, it’s a guy. If anything it’s very likely a last manifestation of Sephiroth. A Sephiroth is a human fully compatible with Jenova cells. It’s almost like it’s Jenova in spirit, an Avatar of Jenova
@ThepurposeofTime you think this www.google.com/search?q=cloud+of+darkness&oq=cloud+of+darkness&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqCggAEAAY4wIYgAQyCggAEAAY4wIYgAQyBwgBEC4YgAQyDQgCEAAYgwEYsQMYgAQyBwgDEAAYgAQyBwgEEAAYgAQyBwgFEAAYgAQyBwgGEAAYgAQyBwgHEAAYgAQyBwgIEAAYgAQyBwgJEAAYgAQyBwgKEAAYgAQyBwgLEAAYgAQyBwgMEAAYgAQyBwgNEAAYgAQyBwgOEAAYgATSAQg2MDkxajBqN6gCFLACAQ&client=ms-android-tmus-us-rvc3&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#vhid=f4ZCKRj54h_GSM&vssid=l
And this: www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-tmus-us-rvc3&sca_esv=0734fda996d53699&sxsrf=ADLYWIKr0q62TTFH4Z3reoPzpYP34BSpbQ:1732023259553&q=jenova+synthesis&udm=2&fbs=AEQNm0DmfTgc7tU04ONiC4SZ2zg3RT2rNGFt-PO6C2cWvmZVUg8CrsXqKTato6BkjlXJ9NeEH4kb3BRANN-itCYAhId-Q0KiBgjRosb_Do1ZWt2wFhIe_LPJkKtalPLd-aeSI0P5OIBGZfSjU1MuO_h5k_WqWDvtWdt3lM75fe-HdPhBHurTHyjP9jWsHpEb99EPA4CTWIEOf0asdHYyXF-2UH1643IbJEBctS6rmnrI1FzpQnNmXbk&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi5jYO5weiJAxVx4MkDHUkMB18QtKgLegQIEhAB&biw=412&bih=772&dpr=1.75
Look alike?
Lightning looks more like female Cloud.
tbf. Weren't they both designed by Nomura or at least based off his art?
@@dragoonmk4203 i know lightning was I'm not sure on jenova
You might wanna brace yourself cuz my theory's gonna blow your socks off
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But I believe that Jenova is actually Mog.
@@GTTB-227 witch mog? Theres been like 20 lol
slow time of the year for Final Fantasy content huh? I think chances are much higher that Chadley is Jenova.
@@Sinultros sad part is your probably right lol
Crazy theory (but i kinda agree)
NOBODY THINKS THIS LOL
Tifa and Yunalesca are more likely than Lightning
@@eddy5097 I've had a couple people ask me to do a more in depth version cuz they like the idea so it's not nobody lol I've also been considering doing a yunalesca is janova video as it wouldn't rely on a connected worlds theory as much. And yunalesca is far more likely assuming she finds a way to get a physical body again after her defeat and not just her unsent form.
Jenova*
I thought Jenova was Queen Brahne. Never mind then, I guess it was Lighting all along.
@@rune9055 now that would have been a glow up for the ages lmao
Nuh ... Then airieth too was affiliated with professor hojo
Not entirely sure what you mean by this but go on?
Ummm, Jenova is a Lavos spawn
Lighting = Jenova?
I don't think so.
Jenova was a likeable character...
@@snappertrx Lightning is likeable if she wasn't I wouldn't like her. Lol
@@ZoransFantasy-pv4vi I would beg to differ, but to each their own. FF13 is my second most disliked FF game, and one of the main reasons is the characters. Didn't really click with any of them, along with a host of other issues. But again, that's just me. 😆
@snappertrx 13 isn't the greatest. 13/2 is slightly better but still not great but LR is one of my favorites. The only super bad part about LR is that hope never shuts the fuck up lol
...fal'Cie, l'Cie...
Pulse, sanctum...
Rebrum, class zero...white tiger...
Information only given in bit and pieces...coming from dead
memories... awakens deformed carcass only mentally...
Subdued by hybrid emanations...
Bridged by decrepid kinship...
Enters madness refined...
Words and expressions turns to shape and void after countless millennia...meaning nothing but dormant warmth...
-----
😒 and.... just like let's that inspiration gone 😄
😊😊
Uh yo you need to read the FFX book about coming to Terra, Jenova is Yunalesca, Rufus Shinra is "Shinra's" descendant. The people Cloud is descendant of are the people of spira that came to Terra. THe book is official and made by Square. Theres no theroy, just fact. It's also why in remake and rebirth the summons look similar.
@@AtticusRh0des considering the world isn't named Terra and the Yunalesca statement is also just another popular reddit theory I would love to hear the name of the book so I can fact check this lol Terra is the name of the earth in ff9 in FF7 it's called Gaia lol
@@AtticusRh0des if you are talking about the Japanese only ultimania guide that was released the only thing it states in that is that shinra from x-2 eventually founded the shinra electric power company . And I do own that book and have read it several times
You really tried to make like ff13 in some way, it may have worked, dam double dam
Great video, for me my Theory is that Jenova is the defeated body of the Cloud of Darkness from FF3 that lost its memory but instinctually still wanted to consume life
Except somehow Lightning ends up in France at the end of FFXIII-3 where is France in Gaia?
@@seven2653 I would really like to know where people keep getting France from. Is it stated in a book somewhere I missed? Because the final shot of the game shows lightning getting off a train in the middle of the country side with nothing but farm land around.
@@seven2653 if your referring to the writing on the buildings being in French I would have to guess that was due to the European localization being the same as ours because in the Japanese version of that scene the writing on the buildings is in Japanese. Not proof she is in France just a weird localization thing for the cutscene.
I mean the ending, she steps out of a train and has "normal" clothing and the setting is European-like... I think it was France, but I can't remember too well
Bunivelze (or whatever the name was of the final boss/god) created this new world where she settled with all other characters of the game... All the souls she saved
As far as I know, the world of FF13 was destroyed afterwards, but idk its been over 10 years since I played the game... I could be wrong on some details
@@seven2653 it was destroyed by chaos and lightning guides the souls of buenivelza's ark to a new world I just love how everyone thinks that its france on our world due to a localization error is all lol its never officially stated what world it is.
No I am Jenova
Go an hero
Bye
Bro chill
@@sharksocks8130 never
Dude Lightning is literally in France. And the vehicles there look nothing like Gaia's vehicles in ff7. And there's also an airplane. Ff7 doesn't have airplanes. They have air ships.
@@Zephyr_Weiss I had to rewatch this cutscene after other people commented the same thing. I have no idea where you got the plane from cuz there isn't one. The vehicles are a weak argument as they change with time but I suppose that's fair. The only thing suggesting French is the righting in buildings which is a localization thing for the English/European releases the Japanese version of the cutscene has Japanese on them.
@ZoransFantasy-pv4vi when Lightning got off the train, there was an airplane in the sky. Airships from any final fantasy game don't make those trails in the sky.
@@Zephyr_Weiss cids plane in the new 7 did.