Your take on the Hayabusa is absolutely correct, UNTIL YOU RIDE ONE! I have had several sport bikes over the years, and then made the mistake of testing a Busa. That experience planted a seed that eventually, years later, unavoidably grew into ownership. Resistance was futile. My subsequent experience reminds me of the quote "Love is the feeling you get when you like something as much as your motorcycle." We are inseparable. Long live the Busa :)
It's kind of weird, but there are just some bikes that are really very "meh" on paper and you don't think much of them, then you get on them and their like f*@%ing paradise, just simply imaginably fun or great and you're totally whacked from out of left field and left all confused and giggling (and with sticky underwear). I've never ridden a Busa and I'm not really a fan of sport bikes, but something tells me this is one of those "surprising" bikes.
I simply can't agree with you. That is my opinion. I've had plenty of fast bikes and ridden every one from the 'Busa era. None of the lardy arsed Busa era bikes comes anywhere close to a modern sports bike through the corners and that, in my opinion, is why the 'Busa is sh1t. It is also the reason why the Busa has had a very limited past in Europe, where virtually none of them were on sale for more much than about 4 years, while they have been on constant sale Stateside since their introduction. On this side of the pond, there really aren't many people who are interested in power over everything else, and that is why the VMax was on sale for only a few years and the Busa likewise, just as with the ZZR14 and other power-over-everything machines. And I would argue that something like the KTM SD1290 has just as much of a gut-wrenching push from its torque as the Busa, especially as the Katoom is so much lighter. That the Super Duke is actually fun through the corners, where a Busa is simply unpleasant just piles on the pain for the Suzuki. And I know that the Suzuki is capable of accelerating fast (once it has been fettled) and that a supercharged Busa is about as fast an accelerator as it is possible to be on 2 wheel. But I, just like the guy in the video, get far more fun out of riding through corners than by blasting along straights. And I have zero interest in having my corners completely destroyed by rubbish handling.
I agree 400cc is more than enough. I am really liking how the Indian market is bringing forth the development of the 400cc segment. If you live in a city 400cc is more than youll ever need.
@@SDrizzyThat's what the KTM RC390 is, fully adjustable WP suspension, Brembo brakes (well, Bybre, but that's just Brembo's cheap brand), very low weight and a very shocking electronics package for the class especially after 2022. TFT dash, traction control, wheelie control, switchable ABS which uses an IMU in order to also do cornering ABS. It's really just a superbike with a lawnmower engine
I agree with the 400cc. A lot of people just buy really big motorcycles and never learn how to actually ride them or never take them on a track. They just gun it on the highway and eventually get into an accident. Sure going in a straight line is fun but after a while they thrill goes away and it requires no actually skill. Learning how to properly ride a small displacement motorcycle is one of the best skills you can teach yourself and will ultimately make you a better rider.
@@ntdscherer You're correct. I am mostly criticizing motorcycle riders that start off on large displacement motorcycles and never end up learning the fundamentals and techniques of riding a motorcycle. They just own a liter bike to hold the throttle wide open on the highway putting their as well as other peoples lives at risk in pursuit of acceptance among the riders who buy large displacement motorcycles because they have to have the fastest bike. There are people who buy large bikes because they are very attracted to them, that can be adventure bikes or even cruisers. I am just advocating for more riders to at least practice fundamentals. It leaves a bad reputation for bikers and especially for new riders who think that they have to buy large displacement motorcycles to fit in who then end up crashing not two months later.
These are also the liter bikes that are for sale, used with less than a thousand miles on the clock. Poor fellow, never did get used to the big cow, scared the hell out of him every time he rode it. An adventure is what ever you make of it, little bikes will get you almost anywhere you want to go.
I’m 60 and have 4 bikes. The largest engine is a 2001 zx6r I’ve had since new. 2021 z400 2024 klx 230s 2001 kl 250 super sherpa. I’ve had bigger bikes over the years but prefer smaller lighter bikes.
Honestly, if they did that, it would be legendary… and incredibly smart for the Hayabusa/Suzuki…. Suzuki needs to make a statement with engineering ideas… it’s like they are asleep over there… definitely complacent, at the very least.
The Busa was introduced as a sport bike but it's basically its own category, it's half cruiser (comfortable + big) and half sport bike (fast in a line). So even if there are better sport bikes, that's no reason for Suzuki to kill the platform, because it'll still sell well.
They'll kill it, they are already planning on going full electric soon. They are even preparing to release Electric GSX in Indonesia to test the market
I would agree that beyond 400cc isn't really necessary for a single rider, though the 650cc class of power is a lovely place to be. If you have a passenger often then I do think those rules change a bit. My unpopular opinion would be that most brands focus on the wrong features; make the bike LIGHT, design a solid engine, and sort out the suspension, and you have a hot seller. Most bikes are too damn heavy.
@@DerpEye It's only really the ABS that adds anything more than a few grams. Everything else is engine management and you'd be lucky to get 500g out of the extra sensors that are added over a "bare" fuel injected motorcycle.
For me there are 3 types of bikes: the tourer/ naked/ adventure bike for daily commutes and comfortable long distance rides, the crotch rocket for putting the knee down at the track, and the enduro you don't mind damaging for the sake of off-roading. 1 and 3 are all I'll ever need and want. Great therapy and keeps you young.
I have a friend with a Hayabusa and he's the slowest rider I know. It's painful riding behind him as he's always on the brakes and keeps slowing through a corner until he's out the other side. I really feel for that bike. It's like keeping a gorilla in a bird cage. My usual comment about him is that he's wasting at least 1,000 ccs because he could just as well be on a 250. There should be some sort of rescue organisation that will rescue mistreated bikes like this, just as animal rescue works.
I mean you sure can, but that's like at the same genre of having fun with a RoadGlide. And on the money/weight/necessity -to-fun scales there are much cheaper, more nimbly and practical bikes to have the same or not more fun on with.@@countryjoe3551
The only bike I've owned so far is my current Duke 390, and i agree that there really isn't a need for more. It has plenty of get up and go, and raking through an entire gear box within road legal speeds is far more engaging than sitting in 2nd must feel like. Sure, it's only "sportscar" quick rather than "supercar" fast, but on a bike where you actually feel the wind it still feels quick enough. I'm like you though, far more interested in a corner than a straight line and the little Duke excels at that.
YES !!! I love riding my noisy vibrating road legal KTM 500 EXC ;) It more fun then my old 1985 Yamaha FZ750 I used to have that was what I call jailbait murdercycle... I could never control myself on that and always ended up going in 1 year in jail speeds with it. My KTM 500 is so unpleasant at that speed that you never go that fast lol ;) And there is plenty of fun to have just driving at normal legal speeds.
Partially agree, I enjoy my Duke 390 when riding through the Black Forest Germany, but it’s a pain on the autobahn or long high speed corners, cause the moment you hit around 140 it’s crawling its way up to 170 slowly (I maxed out at 171km/h before hitting the rev limit), that’s why I would go up a notch to 650cc. Been riding the 390 for over a year now
Coming from someone who's second bike was a Suzuki RG250, maintenance is the only thing that 4 strokes have over 2 strokes. I learned more in the 2 years that I rode that Suzuki than I have learned in over 20 years of riding 4 strokes. It is the only bike that I truly regret letting go, and I've owned quite a few bikes. If I could find one in good condition for a reasonable price, I'd add it to my collection in a heartbeat. And I'd argue that a 650cc class twin is better than a 400. You don't have the small bike feel like you do with the 400's, but they're still easy to throw around IMO. You have the advantage of 0-100km/h in under 4 seconds, which beats a lot more cars on the road. Plus there's the additional torque that can get you out of trouble with just a twist of the wrist.
I had a Suzuki RGV250 and it's one bike I'm so happy to have gotten rid of. It cured me forevermore of wanting a 2-stroke. I got a CBR600F2 soon afterwards and was much happier with the experience of ownership.
@@langhamp8912 You should have got the RG instead of the RGV. With less power & a smaller front wheel, the RG was easier to ride & carved corners with an ease that I've yet to see matched with any other bike. Cornering was so sharp that I used to overtake cars on the inside on hairpin bends at speeds that I wouldn't even dream of on any other bike.
@@ADingoTookMyDasco Well, there was that TZ250R that was a lot more powerful and lighter. And any model of the Yamaha R6. But I was referring more to the cost of maintaining an RGV as a daily rider instead of its handling. I buy most of my bikes as 99% commuters, and 1% trackday, with the occasional very rare group ride thrown in.
I think an important issue about buying larger bike is stability and longevity. You hit the open road on a 300 and it will get buffeted by the wind. It might do 160: but at 100 it is still working hard. Plus things like going up hills or overtaking strain the engine , I have a GSX1250FA that can sit stably on the road in strong cross winds and can travel 500 kilometres in a day without and issue and barely notices hills. And it isn’t too slow around tight bends. And that motor is going to outlast a lot of other because it just doesn’t need to be worked hard. I have my FZ8 for revving and cornering fast. And I’m not into riding hard & fast enough to justify an R1 or a GSXR. So what I have suits the highway and the tight corner riding I do, but I could never go back to a small bike. Even if it had the top end power, I’d be ruining its’ neck just to ride how I wish.
That's a gearing thing tho. The bigger the bike the more it's working (assuming all parts are built with the same materials), because the bigger bike will need beefier parts which weigh more and lead to more stress. Now a 125 is weak af, but anything really mid-classed will pull your ass up a mountain and do what ever revs. Because the engines are also designed to rev, that's why there is a limiter at some point. Or does any handbook state that you can't rev the bike at (example) 7000rpm for a certain amount of time?
@@Daniel-dj7fh Actually I disagree. The bigger, 4 cyl motor has smaller pistons than a 2 cyl 650. 1000cc/4 = 250cc/cyl and 650/2 = 325cc. The bigger bike will spool faster, rev easier and work less hard. Also, the higher you rev you engine the faster it wears out. If I ride at 5000rpms and you at 7000, your engine, assuming the same build quality will break down sooner. That's why you'll see big bikes easily going over 100k km while the smaller ones not that much. Bigger engines, 1000cc, for instance have a higher rev ceiling than smaller engines with bigger pistons and valves. The rev limiter is there to prevent the motor to self destruct and also to prevent valve floating. Smaller engines have lower rev ceiling for a reason.
They might be smaller, but they have to endure way more revolutions and from the power alot more bangs, meaning that those cylinders have to be alot more stable. Which could then come at the cost of weight. I've noticed lower rev ceelings on bikes with lower cylinder counts not displacement or power. A 2500cc Rocket3 isn't revving to 14k rpm either. Yes at 7000rpm your engine wears out more than at 5000rpm, but my 500 does 120kmh at around 5000rpm, I'd not have to rev higher. And my bike doesn't have the best gearing for high speeds.@@johnnyblue4799
Very true. I have a KTM 400 Military and feel like im torturing it when going 100km/h. A thing that a bigger displacement bike does without breaking a sweat. A really light bike isnt always a good thing either, since it becomes unstable at higher speeds. Also bike size tends to match the displacement. I dont fit on a 390, 890 fits better and 1290 fits like a charm. Downside of not having different framesizes like mountainbikes do.
Keep voicing your opinion. It's worth seeing your vids and interesting to see people's comments. Motorcycling is a passion, business of the heart directed by the brain. Keep riding! ❤
400CC opinion on point. My 650 is a killjoy in most places aside from long high speed highway hills where the power is handy. Everywhere else I find myself wishing for more gear changing action.
Piece of information that could change your mind: At 6 foot 4 inches (193cm?) and a 34 inch (86.36cm?) a touring bike is too cramped for me. I rode a same year R1200RT and a GS back to back and the GS is more comfortable for me hands down. It just has more leg room which is more comfortable for long days riding.
I personally got a r1200gs after a detour lead me down a rough 22 miles gravel road. I decided that I wanted a touring bike that could handle whatever the road threw at me, and I often ride two-up so I wanted the extra torque, but yes for actual ADV riding the middle weight segment is much better. If all you ever do it ride solo then I’m sure 400cc is all you’d need, but I wouldn’t want to carry a pillion on my 310gs on a multi-day cross country ride.
The 400cc statement is too true. I had a Svartpilen 401 last year and I never wished for more power, except on the Autobahn. 170kph isn´t fast enough sometimes, even the least powerful cars can go faster. Anywhere else though... Yeah, I ate most cars for breakfast, I only wanted more to annoy those Golf GTI and Cupra dingleheads. If you don´t live in Germany, you never NEED more power than this. It´s only a question if you WANT more.
I find 75-100 hp is the most that one can use (with skill) on the roads. Ideal is probably 50-75 hp, depending on bike size. My V-Strom is 67 hp, but it's geared short and it's a hunk. Top speed sucks, but that teaches me to ride better.
Totally right about the 400 cc bike part. I do think however, if you're carrying a passenger often, or heavy weights, something like 60 - 100 hp bike with good torque would be nice Edit : go to replies for motorcycle debate club
@flippy5118 what aspect would you say its lacking on? yeah the acceleration time may get reduced by 0.5 seconds but nothing to really sweat about. A 125cc can push through with 4 people riding on board. A 400cc is more than capable.
@@fieryspy6414 400cc bikes don't sound good. I ride a 600cc supersport because it looks and sounds amazing. 400cc looks okay and sounds lame asf. My first bike was a yamaha R3, and while i enjoyed the bike, i enjoy my 600 a lot more.
@@CBRyan_600rr there are plenty of 400cc bikes that look good and sound good. But there isnt a lot to choose from as most of them are single cylinders. Something like the benelli 302 comes to mind, royal enfields. But ofc bigger the bangs and more the cylinders better will be the sound.
I agree, I love the Suzuki style, but I would love for them to try something else in the "fast straight and nothing else". I love this kind of bikes, as a rider with just better than average capacity, having a bike that I can handle on the turns at the limitation speed but has incredible straight lane power is how I get my kicks.
Hey CC, as an Africa Twin rider I can tell you that although I use it mostly for touring, as you suggest in the video, 95% of the time we are touring 2 up. A 700cc bike is just not going to cut it and would always feel like the frame is at it’s limit, while the big touring bikes are more than double the price, even over the already expensive CRF1100L! If you have any other alternatives in mind that could do the job just as well, I’d love to hear your thoughts 😁 Cheers!
My V-Strom 650 handles me (215lbs) and my wife (150lbs) two up just fine, neither the engine nor frame feel stressed. Not as dirt capable as an AT of course, but still plenty for my needs which is mainly to reach campsites down dirt roads and mild trails that my sport bike would be very iffy on.
@@johncaswell2648 we like to take long rides and the AT is our primary vacation vehicle, so it sees a mix of highway and B roads. I had a CB500x before and we were just getting blown away on the highway by larger vehicles and strong winds, whereas the AT is very planted and isn’t affected at all. As you mentioned, everyone has their own needs, I find bigger bikes more stable for my use case in particular. Best regards!
No idea about lbs, but my cb500x had a max payload of 180kg, which although we are both fit and weigh about 140kg combined, doesn’t leave much room for luggage and some change 🤷🏻♂️
bigger bikes are easier to ride. as I get older I get lazier and don't want to have to down shift three times for every corner. big twins are best, find a gear and stay there. that's also why I love electric bikes, no shifting. I get enough of that dirt biking. small bikes are fun too but sometimes you just wanna chill and watch the scenery go by.
This video is brilliant! More of these please! Unpopular opinions: 1. People new to the track should not ride 1000cc bikes since they ride slow in the corners. 2. AGV is like Ducati as either rich newbies buy it or experienced riders who can appreciate them. 3. Knee sliding on the public roads rarely make you faster. It's for the show.
*It's all about unstressed performance* with the Hayabusa, it is the reason you don't drive in second gear at highway speeds even though second gear can reach it. Hayabusa isn't a bike, it is a lifestyle accessory, it isn't to about doing 0-60 or 186mph, is about doing 50mph *UNSTRESSED,* its something that makes general commuters, sport enthusiasts and cruiser lovers happy. Sure Rolls Royce doesn't need 5.75L engine, but having 5.75 L relaxes performance.
Together with a friend we own (& regularly ride!!) about 30 popular Japanese year 70's and 80's motorbikes (250,400,750,1000,...), different brands. I can tell you that the 'good old indestructible bike from whence' is very much at the end of it's life; insulation of wires and electrical plugs are failing totally, carburetors are cracking, O-rings are hard & start to leak,.... Most of this started when the bikes were +30y old. BUT most of these items can be repaired/replaced fairly easy if you are a bit handy. Not so with modern bikes with ECU & fuel injection & ABS,....
Started on a Honda XR200R went up to a CB550. After a year I got a Triumph Bonneville T100. Now I’m finding my self enjoying a smaller bike like my new Honda Monkey. It’s fun and very nimble. Ride safe ✌️
I'll argue against abs v no abs. Pull the fuse, you don't have abs. At the end of the day abs gets more butts in the seat because it seems easier & insurance is less of you have it.
That's true, but his take was about rudimentary abs, which I have to agree is scary as hell. My Z650 abs has saved me as much times as it's just taken all my braking away and nearly killed me, just from some slightly uneven road or even a speed bump, removing all braking force. However the ZX4RR abs is entirely different, much less intrusive, and works only when I really get in trouble
@@houjous5131 I wish it was that simple on my bike. But it throws engine lights and screws up the speedo. Apparently not that simple, I've browsed forums but there's no simple way to do it
@stickybuds05 the light goes away when you plug the Fuze back in, and even if it lights on, the bike still runs. Not sure why your speedo cares about the abs for accurate data.
Great video with well considered points. I just wanted to share my view on ADV bikes... The classic argument is its too big to do gnarly single track. Yes. They are. And a dirt bike is too small to do a 4000 mile two week ride. The ADV bike is the compromise. But if you're just going to ride pavement, why not get a touring bike? The riding position is generally more comfortable on an ADV bike. After 5 or 6 hrs on the road, standing up to see if your butt is still there or died a couple hours ago is easy on an ADV bike, but on some touring bikes, not so much, especially a Harley touring bike. Don't get me wrong, I have a Road King and love it, but standing while riding involves a death grip on the bars and a stomach crunch, so you only do it for 20 or 30 seconds. The T700s and the like are better off road, but worse for distance. People will ride them long distance and say it can be done. Sure. A guy road and R1 around the world, too, but that doesn't mean I want to do it. I have an F800GS. I've done 4500 mile trips on it. And man am I tired at the end of a full day of riding. Less so on my bigger bikes. Bigger bikes are just more solid, and generaly provide better wind protection so you're getting beat on by the wind much less all day long. But also, their frames are more robust out of necessity, so the bike is just more solid.
I think the biggest market should be crossovers not adventure bikes. Since 90% of adventure riders dont take their bikes offroad what they want is a Tracer 9 GT, KTM 890 SMT, or a MV Agusta Turismo Veloce. They want the ergonomics of the Adventure bike, as well as the more plush suspension for bad asphalt, but they dont need the compromise in wheel size, tires fitted and suspension setup for offroad that Adventure bikes have. But there isnt actaully that much on offer in this segment.
Chaos! You are wrong on almost every point! 4 strokes are only better due to the continued development that they have benefited from. Hayabusa's, and their ridiculous torque, must stay with us! Adventure bikes are great! Your argument applies to so many things that we enjoy in life. Keep up the good work!!
I started riding a little over a year ago on an A2 license, currently own a RC390 and 390 Duke. Originally after about 2-3 months I wanted something faster, the little 390 wasn't really doing it for me anymore, fast forward a few more months and I don't want to get rid of them anymore because I know if I get something faster I won't be able to have as much fun with it on the road. The only real reason I want something faster now is for more comfort on the highway because sitting at 7000rpm for a long period of time is rather annoying. Obviously being a biker I'm well aware that eventually I will give into the urge and buy something faster but realistically it's just not necessary.
I'll argue for the big adventure guys too. Lots of old guys like going Down dirt roads. They don't do it fast but that's exciting for them. Going camping with 100lbs of stuff on 2 wheels is peak endorphins for them.
I borrowed a JDM CB400 SF with a suspension and brakes overhaul and have been a small bike person ever since. Honda should bring back the VFR400 to compete with the Kawasaki zx4rr. So so fun
When it comes to ABS, I think we all should actively practise losing the rear and controlling fishtailing. Also, combi braking is a very good practice which most aren't good at. My Honda 180cc only has a single channel ABS (front) and it's very intrusive. It's only when I started practising combi braking and progressive squeezing of the front lever that I truly figured out how to not let the ABS intervene and even then, the ABS does intrude from time to time.
I'd suggest it's more down to a lack of feedback from the cheap brake setups than an overly intrusive ABS system. It's something I struggled with on a loaner KTM Duke 390 when my RC8R (no ABS or traction control) was in for a major service and a sensor replacement. Basically the caliper starts to really bite late on in the lever's travel, leaving a narrow range of good braking force before the ABS sensor is triggered.
In my opinion, don't make an opinion on a bike like a Hayabusa that one's never had nor ridden and compare it to a one truck pony liter track bike especially if lack of experience of long haul trips,sport touring, and ability of handling a bike like that. Being able to cross country like Germany on a bike like the Busa or ZX14/ZZR1400 in day is an experience that only a few riders get to. So let Suzuki and orders make these bikes for those who can ride and leave the specs sheet to the kids to play with.
Well I agree that a poorly implemented ABS system could be dangerous. But tbh I haven't experienced an ABS system (car or motorcycle) that doesn't pulse. It's just... doing it's thing. The dangerous thing you are describing in the video isn't poor ABS, rather your weird/bad habit. Besides - mostly agree on the rest.
The Busa isn't meant to be compared to litre superbikes. The GSX-R fills that niche. Nothing was said about the 1400 Kawasaki..Why is it still viable in your opinion.
I dissagree about the 400 cc bikes, dont get me wrong, I love good 400 and I agree that for most people its enough, but for example for touring or longer commuting bigger displacment is better. You see, if you ride something like duke 390, to reach good highway speed you need to be pined at gas and hold it there for long periods of time, its uncomfortable and painful. Its better to have bike with bigger displacment where you dont need to catch carpals every time you ride.
I ride a cb500f the only time I'm pinning my gas is when I'm trying to do a 170kmh top speed run, which I've done 3 time during one ride back home in the past 5 years. It does 120-130kmh no questions asked at half revvs. If I pinned my 2nd gear I'd be doing 90kmh, and in the city that's a very big fine. Might even lose my licence. 2up 100kmh and higher could be a problem. But I've also lived with a 125cc for 2 years so I know what actual slow is (Still haven't ridden a 50cc tho if I'm honest).
@@Daniel-dj7fhevery bike feels different I guess. I used to ride a Svartpilen 401 (which is basically a Duke 390) and to get up to speeds like 120km/h or even just 100km/h and keeping it at that speed for longer periods of time it’s just not comfortable and since I switched to a Versys 1000 it felt so much better to take those long roads
I think this only applies to sport and sport naked bikes. If you vowed to stay under 400cc and we’re afraid of an old bmw airhead because you think it’s be too much power you’d be a fool. Also this would rule out every Harley since like 1930.
I agree with you on that. Not just long commutes, every commute outside heavy traffic in the city in general. With a smaller displacement bike you have to downshift and rip it in order to simply overtake someone. I think something around 130hp is the sweet spot for most bikes. I don’t have much experience riding big bikes due to my license limitations, but the 50hp im used to is pretty underwhelming compared to a ktm 1290r i was riding on as a backpack.
For the last point about 400cc is enough. I think that misses the point that bikes are toys to people. The whole bike is superfluous why stop at the power. Also just because we have top speed limits we often don't have acclration limits. So quicker bikes to the speed limit can be enjoyed legally
About the big adventure bikes, in my opinion having a R1250GS is mostly just about your own personal liking. It is true that you don’t necessarily need those 1250cc but it’s just like choosing between a luxury SUV, a high performance sports car, a sedan, or pretty much anything else, it’s just up to you, and even if having the most luxurious SUV isn’t really that useful or even if it doesn’t make sense, you just take it because you like it :)
If you're looking for a practical and fun commuter, you should go for a Maxi Scooter like the Yamaha XMax or the Kymco AK550 instead of buying a motorcycle and strapping several boxes onto it. I know bikers hate scooters, but if I'd gotten 1 dollar each time I heard someone say they wouldn't go back to motorcycle after driving a high displacement scooter, I'd be able to buy a new one myself.
In my opinion, new isn't always better. When motorcycle companies go to the limits of materials, this doesn't always go hand in hand with reliability. Old Honda and Suzuki engines (especially built in Japan) are much more resistant than many new engines. Not all two strokes leak everywhere (maybe it's an Aprilia thing 😅), e.g., Honda's old NSR 2-stroke models around 1990 are built tight and don't leak other than the exhaust flange. But I agree that 4-strokes are overall better (e.g. regarding emissions)
You also have to consider many people just don't know how to take care of their stuff. The US seems to have big issues with VW's and BMW's having engine problems, I don't think I've ever heard anyone over here in Germany complain about that. Here people only talk about how shit VW's interior is for the money
@@Daniel-dj7fh geh mal zum schrottplatz in deiner nähe und guck dir an wieviele bmws da stehen. Oder frag mal nen t5 besitzer, ob er noch den ersten motor drinnen hat
This week I saw a guy in full gear riding a modded Africa Twin, just going to the store to buy a bottle. Maybe a bit overkill, but he looked like he was having a pretty good time. Bike was huge, a little bit like an elephant, really.
"It's basic because I feel pulsation" is such a silly thing to say. That's just how ABS works, and that acts as extra information to the rider. look at new Fortnine video about ABS, there is a nice explanation there. That feedback also allows you to feel the edge of the grip and safely try to break to the max point, as overbreaking won't fuck you up thanks to ABS And pulsing is just an effect of how every ABS is constructed, trying to isolate it from the brakes to not have pulsing would just make whole system more complex and less reliable
Some great opinions, I started on 2 strokes - loved them, got even better when they added oil injection systems that negated the need to premix the fuel, but the reliability and convenience of 4 strokes won me over, and now most 2 strokes are just not available. Never understood the Hayabusa revival, nor the appeal of a big adventure bike, although most of that is down to an insufficiency in the leg department.
Last month, for the first time, got to ride a motorcycle with ABS and traction control, when I bought my new one. It's uncanny. It just won't slip. I'm sure I could get myself in trouble, but for commuting back and forth to work and riding in no particular direction on the weekends it's amazing.
I love your videos man. But did you do any research on the Hayabusa besides looking at the HP, TQ and weight numbers? The internals are stronger that pervious models, the engine is way under stressed so it will last a long time, it makes more power everywhere else in the rev range over the Gen 2 but yes lost 7 crank HP on the very top where you spend almost zero time. Look up Busa's doing track days here on youtube as well. They aren't just a straight line can't turn drag bikes unless you make it that way. It's more comfortable than any liter bike out there too. I've owned a Blackbird VFR800 5th gen FZ/MT-10 SV650S as well as seven other bikes in my 26 years of riding and now a Gen 3 Hayabusa. It's not a perfect bike but none are. These days of every bike being a niche machine vs how streetable sportbikes used to be honestly sucks. You used to be able to ride a CBR954RR all day and not need a chiropractor after. When the CBR600RR came out Honda still made the CBR600 F4i and that I think is a better way to do things instead of every bike being so hyper focused. There's my unpopular motorcycle opinion.
I owned several 400cc bikes, and yes - it is enough for city riding and slower b-roads, but if you live where traffic is more fast paced and you do longer travels on all kind of roads I found that I needed more horsies to feel safer. For example in my country the traffic is pretty fast - 140 km/h highways and 90 km/h for most out of city , even on more curvy/mountainous areas, and it is common for cars to speed a little above, so you need to be defensive and adaptive, and some times this requires power. Since I switched to 1200 cc I ride with almost the same speeds as on my previous 400cc bike but I feel less fatigue and can do longer hours, and most importantly I can be more adaptive to the modern traffic, like keeping up without stressing the bike and having quick access to power for different situations, avoiding tailgaters when safe and do faster overtaking when necessary, especially if the vehicle in front is creating dangerous situations.
Love your videos. Agree with everything…sort of. As a person approaching 50, that rides the sh#t out of my Tiger 900 RP off-road (in the USA), I like to think I’m the exception, though my circle of friends all seem to be exceptions as well. That said, though we likely don’t like to admit it, 3/4 of your time is on tarmac reaching the start of the trail in different states, therefore ADVs are the tailor-made solution! When you have 100lbs+ of gear for your 10 day trip, and are less than aerodynamic, certainty you need 75hp+ to ride and overtake trucks on on interstates etc. 400cc bikes don’t fit.
In my experience, ABS also depends on the brand making it. Haven ridden 2017 Kawasaki and now a 2022 BMW, its a huge difference. The kawa let you know when the abs kicked in by ticking but the BMW doesn't do that. you dont even notice it kicking in until you look at you app riding data and see how often it interveend.
@@Daniel-dj7fh I have a 750GS. As far as I noticed there is no feedback. Don't see a downside to it's since it doesn't make you scared of slamming the brakes
I agree with the last one. Since kawasaki released the zx25r, i always think like i'll be happy with it. I just hope they release a Z variant of it with the same engine.
Hard disagree on the Busa, my man. Its not a performance bike, it's a sports touring bike. Its meant to go longass distances with just a metric ton of torque available to you at all times. Its super comfy and easy to ride, too. Just stick it in a gear, and let the clutch out. It'll be fine lmao
I have a 2015 390 duke with some mods on it like better mono shock at the rear, full system exhaust, and fresh forks and that thing is an absolute blast to ride here in italy with all these shitty but twisty raods… but i still want a faster bike to take on the race track like an rs660 and use it comfortably on the road
@@Daniel-dj7fh yes i do, the duke is very comfortable but the vibrations are incredibly annoying and for a little bit of travelling is not ideal, is even worse on the freeway, but apart from that is an incredible machine, i really love it
The Hayabusa is not a sport bike, it's a sport touring bike. Big adventure bikes weigh significantly less than baggers which are the only bikes that really rival the amount of storage available on motorcycles. As the owner of a Ducati Monster 696, part of owning one is the prestige the brand has, and the other is they're beautiful motorcycles. Also note, Japanese motorcycles don't use chipped keys so they're easier to steal. As for the 400cc debate, it's a bare minimum here in the US. When Yamaha sent its FZR-400 here, they had to bump up the displacement to 600 cc as the 400 wasn't selling. Was it really necessary? No. If I had a real job when they came out, I would have been the first one buying one. Anyway, good discussion.
I agree regarding the 400cc engine capacity being all we need. I moved to Japan several years ago and purchased myself a Ninja400 as I was a little cash strapped to re-purchase a zx6r I sold back home. Thinking I'll be replacing it in a year or two, I'm going on 4 years and no plans to replace it! The 48HP it puts out is plenty fast for the type of roads I like to ride on and light enough to be riding it around the city even with my wife on the back. I do however, miss the 4 cylinder sound so have been eyeing the zx4rr or the standard zx4r
2 stokes against 4 strokes it´s just diferent, it will only depends on what do you want, in my case I have an R6 to make speed, and a YZ 250X for enduro, I think to be use on the road obviusly the 4 stroke will go better, but a 2 stroke for enduro will be always my choise, fot the exact same reason you put on your video, they have a less engine break, less moving parts, they heat less, they rev faster and they are less likely to stall the engine when you are moving slow.
I rode a 400cc four stroke Suzuki impulse for 38 years. (2x bikes 1.7m kilometers). It could hit 242kph on the track (rpm limiter at 13700rpm) corner like a demon despite 1987/88 suspension. Had phenomenal brakes, and made a whole 53Hp. It required the rider to ride hard, but the bike loved being hammered. These were favoured by motorcycle couriers, and f3 racers. It was designed as a Japanese 400cc racer, sold overseas as a commuter to meet homologisation rules, because they were built asymmetric with the rear offset an inch from the centreline to suit the Japanese tracks. I rode it severely overloaded at times because it was my day to day transport. I also rode it off road, through shallow boulder strewn rivers, and across farmland. The 158kg (dry) weight made it easy to ride in all conditions.
i mostly agree on the 400cc one but its just that i like to go offroad with bikes that can spin the back wheel easier so it would be better with like 500cc-700cc
On the 400cc point It's absolutely more than you'll ever need if you live in Europe or in a city, but if If you live in a place that's a little bit more rural such as the states, then you can easily justify those larger bikes
On the last note, im a mt 07 rider (started on it), and my friend recently got his duke 390 (he started on it), after 3 months and a couple of rides with my bike, he would really really want to upgrade, but could not justify selling and buying another bike so fast. So 100% 400cc's are not fast enough at reaching the speed limit
Yamaha MT 07 I would think is a great bike with it`s 67hp and 800 cc or so twin ;) I used to drive a 1985 Yamaha FZ 750 but the power in that one was 60km/h to 1 year in jail in about 2 second and that is why I now drive a road legal KTM 500 dirtbike.
Totally agree with the point about the ABS, but also agree with other commenters that it's partly a skill issue. After learning with no ABS, I eventually found with my '21 MT-03 I'd get the stuttering that felt like a foot scraping so I'd flinch, then when I got my '16 MT-10 I found the same thing. But I would put it down to my not often having to actually get the ABS to engage so it comes as a surprise when it does.
I have a 2020 Duke 390 and I love it most of the time but when I’m on the open road I do wish I had a bit more power for passing and just so I don’t have to thrash the motor so much. I’m 6’4” and ~100kg so maybe a lighter/smaller rider might have a better time with it. For commuting and just ripping around I love it. It’s an awesome bike. It’s only when I go out on a canyon ride that I wish I had an extra 10-20 hp. It would be cool if they made a Duke 590 with an inline twin. That would be sweet. Still small and light but with a little more grunt. I’m currently saving for another bike but I’m still thinking about just keeping the 390 because I really do love it to bits. It’s so fun.
For the 400cc stand. I considered using 400cc since I am using it going to work and occasional long rides. I choose 400cc because I can reach 170 to 180kph in an open road, can cruise inside the city, ride with my pinion plus my bags in long haul rides while just getting the fuel economy of a 125cc sports bike. It is a very good starter bike for anyone who would like to beat the city traffic. I would consider higher displacement if I have like 20k to 50k gran excess from my monthly savings😂
Personal anecdote: first bike was 400cc. the highways where I live have speed limits of 75mph, where drivers routinely drive at 90mph or above. My bike was screaming for dear life at 75mph and was terrifying to navigate the highways on. Side roads were fine but I eventually traded in for something larger that gave me more confidence in higher speed scenarios and riding with a passenger
Bigger displacement sport bikes are easier to ride faster on twisty mountain roads. Not so gear specific, less fussy. However smaller displacement bikes give a thrill when you can use all the power. I just sold a 2015 VFR and replaced it with a 2008 GSF1250sa, which is fully tuned, modified and built. It’s much easier to be faster on the Bandit with 130 HP and 100 ftlbs to the rear wheel as you can concentrate more on other things than gear selection.
I have never ridden any bike less than 650. A ER6N in driving school, and a 3rd gen 750c Magna now, so I cant talk about the fun that a 400 will get you, but I can talk about the Autobahn, since I am from germany. My bike has an official top speed of about 200 kmh, but me - as a heavy guy - sitting upright on it, she can only get up to 160 kmh. This is faster than the needed speed to keep up with traffic for sure, but still a bit disappointing. But if a 750cc / 88 hp bike can only get me to 3/4 of its top speed, a 400 would probably only get me to 100-110, which is faster than the trucks, but slower than the suggested speed of 130, which most of the cars tend to keep. So while I only take the Autobahn when I want to go home after a day of riding, this can still take over an hour of me being either stuck between trucks on the most right lane, or a nuisance if in the middle lane. Besides, small displacement cruisers mostly look wierd if not ugly to me, thanks to the void generated by the small engine like the Rebel 300. Not saying that your point is not valid, just saying that it is not valid for me personally.
I love all the opinions except for the last one. I think it depends more on where you live. I do 90% highway most days commute to work and sitting at 85 with a smooth large engine and not getting hit by any wind is something a 400 just isn't capable of.
I disagree on the big adventure bikes. I drove a Honda Transalp for many many years and now got a R1200GS. I tried the T700 and also touring bikes, like a XL1000 or even the massive tank named Goldwing. But there is some point, you might not understand. It is not about the single best bike. The T700 might be a great offroader. But in my opinion it is a pretty bad tourer. And a K1600GT might be a great tourer. But I would hate it as a daily driver. Good adventure bikes don't need to be the best at a single thing. They need to be capable of doing everything quiet good. If you choose a smaller bike like a Transalp and a KLR or a bigger bike like an AfrikaTwin or a BMW GS is personal taste. And of course it is a matter of the country, you live in. I am German. That's why I hate these comments about the allmighty Autobahn. They are not true in general.
Front brakes perform more(80-90% for streat/sport/etc) braking force's then rear. So breaking distance will be almost the same with or without rear brake. Of course if front will be used for maximum. And abs for front wheel might help a lot.
1. I agree, but I think they didn't do a bad job refreshing the Hayabusa. Like they also resurrected the Katana. And I think a modern classic (if not taken seriously) is not a bad move. I also like that the ZX4R (or zx25r) being a modern zxr250. 2. I'm personally don't like the sound and smell of two strokes. Especially remembering all the wanna be racers on their two stroke 150cc bikes back then. 3. Getting scared about the abs jitter is a skill issue imo. you know it happenes, you know why it happenes. It shouldn't be an issue. My cb500f's rear abs is also trash, I just have to deal with it. Sure better abs is better than bad abs, but 90% of people won't be able to ride without abs, most of them can barely ride in a straight line. 4. No opinion on adventure bikes or tourers. 5. Don't quite understand the statement that Ducatis are beginner bikes. 6. I agree. But you can definitely break the speed limit on a 390 duke on the Autobahn. From first hand experience less than half of the Autobahn is actually limitless, and very so often there are signs saying you're only allowed to ride/drive 80, 100, 120 or 130 (somewhat uncommon to 120 signs) km/h. So completely within the 390's capabilities. And even if you're allowed to ride/drive faster, you usually can't because the roads are too full and it would be somewhat irresponsible and dangerous. I agree so much to the last point that I'm probably not gonna consider a 100hp+ bike ever, unless Yamaha re-relases their R6, and then it's just for the looks.
I agree with most of them, except for Abs one. Even the most rudimentary of Abs will save lives compared to a non abs on the road. The complaint about feeling is subjective and can be overlooked momentarily. Another good thing about 400cc or 375cc in case of Duke390 and Dominar 400 is the cost of ownership. They are relatively cheap to run fuel consumptions are better, cost of part replacements are also cheaper, engine service is more budget friendly and overall a best motorcycle for daily riding.
400cc might be ok but if you ride many motorways the light part is a negative when windy. I learned on an MT-07 and the ABS is not that bad, if you practice breaking on the limit you get used to the feel, but I did get a chance to test a new BMW and the ABS was faster and smoother but for stopping distance it was not much better, staying on the limit just before the ABS kicks in is always the best.
You are taking a completely wrong point of view here - the Hayabusa was never a racing motorcycle, it was always a sports tourer. And it is precisely in this segment that it remains one of the best machines available on the market. The fact that it used to be the fastest production motorcycle in the world was just a positive side effect. In addition, the comparison with the BMW depends very much. Yes, the BMW is lighter and yes, it has more power and yes, they have the same top speed, but which motorcycle has more torque in which speed range? And this is exactly where you can see the difference in the area of application most. Quite apart from that, who cares today whether a motorcycle travels at 299 km/h or 312 or 308, where else are you supposed to ride that? And I say that as someone who has a motorway in Germany with no speed limit.
@@Daniel-dj7fh Still, that doesn't change the fact that both the Hayabusa and the Blackbird fall into the sports tourer category and therefore cannot be compared with 1000cc superbikes.
I do everything on my big ADV, including big adventures in the dirt. I don't find cruisers or touring bikes to be comfortable most of the time, but I like doing big road trips where the destination is the trail network I plan on riding. I hate the idea of loading a bike onto a trailer and mostly refuse to drive anything with more than two wheels, so I ended up getting a bike that truly does it all. That said, so many people really do buy adventure bikes just to ride them to Starbucks on the weekend.
400 cc is fine until you get in traffic on the freeway. I have the KTM 390ADV and rode it 40 miles at 65 mph yesterday. Every vehicle coming from the opposite direction pushed me. I have a Ducati Diavel 1260S and it does not get pushed around by other vehicles. The weight and wider tires keep it tracking straight. I also have a Ducati Scrambler Desert Sled (800 cc) and it is pretty much right between the KTM and the Diavel when it comes to wind buffeting at 70 mph. I consider it the bare minimum in engine size, tire size, and weight of bike for riding over 55mph. It is far more apparent when you have 3 different sizes to compare them day in and day out.
The Busa was amazing to commute far distance on the german highways without speedlimit as it is suprisingly comfy when going fast due to the long wheelbase. It lost this usecase today due to the dense traffic and high gas prices, but still has some of its appeal left from its glory days. I assume it will get dropped by Suzuki within the next years. Cheap ABS is even more dangerous in the front if it acts too rough. I am a big guy and my previous commuter MT-125 was doing stoppies like crazy during safety training, even when fully leaning back and stretching my arms. Luckily I could test this on the track so I learned to not use the full frontal brake preasure on that bike. The 400cc rule is right, but as I am not a lightweight I went for a class higher and got a SFV-650 as my daily driver. Fell in love with everything about it: Great fuel economy, enough power to cruise at low RPM, super reliable, big enough to carry some groceries but small enough to split lanes and also fun in the twisties at the weekend with less than 200kg weight after a few customizations. Seems like I found my "keep forever bike".
You’re right on everything with one exception. I Disagree on your view of ABS. My z900 has it and when activated I can barely feel it. I’ve tested it just to see what I can expect. Very smooth and not intrusive
I owned a busa back then, and i called it the 90's viper of motorcycles. Might of been just me and my experience at the time but that thing felt like it wanted to leave me at the light more times than I could count
I personally drive a 4 stroke 650cc engine and i personally don't drive for the speed, but for the cruise itself. I usually don't go above 100km/h. The one thing i noticed is that i really like to drive quieter and in my opinion in a lot of cases a 400cc might jus5 be too loud because you may need a lower gear. It is really rare of course, but since i drive on somewhat steep mountainroads i really like the 650cc but also wouldn't go above it because that truly is unnecessary in my eyes.
i currently riding a 321cc and im keeping up with mate on 1000cc on alot more rides than i thought i would, from take off and in realy sharp corners i do fine, its just on the straights going from 100 to 150 they will get there noticably faster and in the wide sloppy corner they pull out noticably faster, but on the city rides with take offs a weaving thick traffic alot of the time i take the lead witch i didnt expect, so 300cc is fine for hooning in the right enviroment.
I own a svartpilen 401, which is just a duke 390 with the husqvarna style. And honestly, my only two complaints about it are; being a 373cc single geared more towards top end power, it doesn't have quite as much torque as i personally like. And even with a half decent wind screen, it's not very comfortable on long rides. But yes, in terms of what i usually do with a bike, there are very few motorcycles better and more practical than it, one of which has the exact same engine in the form of the 390 adventure.
Everyone may think 400cc is enough until you get your hands into something 650+ and do it properly. Moved from a 400 to a 1k half a year ago (still own both) and been feeling the difference a lot, will not make sense at all for small commutes (less than 20 min), but longer rides comfort/fun and the safety of having power when you need is where the bigger displacements really shine.
The thing is with motobikes it’s a very individual thing one man’s nightmare is a other man’s absolutely dream bike. And that’s good we are all bikers and have to respect each others 🤟
Paused the video after the busa segment to comment this. Just to play the devil's advocate, I've heard many people say that the hayabusa is hands-down the best sport-oriented sport touring bike you can get. Maybe it isn't great on track, but as a sport bike to take on lighter packed trips (at least here in the US), I've heard many good things. It's sportbike power on a frame and engine that are more friendly to long interstate days. It should be noted that this isn't firsthand experience, but it's a message I've heard from many different people. Now I'll continue watching.
I live in a metropolitan area in Germany and have a motorcycle licence for almost 20 years now, but never owned a bike. 3 months ago I decided to buy a single cylinder 400cc cruiser, a Benelli Imperiale 400. I really love that engine size for a motorcycle, because it's not intimidating at all and really cheap. For 3 - 4k EUR you'll get a motorcycle that's capable of running 120kph. Which is about as much money as you'd pay for a scooter. Plus, spare parts and service is cheap as well. However, if 120kph top speed is not fast enough for you, you most likely have to pay double than that (6 - 8k) in order to obtain a 650cc 50hp cruiser with two cylinders, that merely runs 30kph faster. Any engine even bigger than that can make you go even faster than 150kph, but I wouldn't go faster than that on a naked bike anyway. That being said, I just didn't see the benefit of paying another 3 - 4k just for being able to use the middle lane of the Autobahn instead of the right lane...
Agree with everything except abs. Yes experienced riders will outperform on a dry track but no one will outperform in emergency or in the wet. I own a ninja 400 and a road king and love them both for different reasons
I've got the same issue with abs. It sucks and just increases cost. Highways where I live are cruising north of 140kph. A 400 doesn't have much power left here. I think 600s are the biggest you need. Possibly 500 depending on hp and torque.
All agreed! My personal its “faster 400cc is pointless”. Totally right. I bought husqy svartpilen 401 at my first bike and still dont take limit over 120-140 km/h. Mb on track all 600+ cc is a reasonable choice, but in traffic you're either breaking the law, or you're moving along with the flow. And.. elephants in room - r3, zx25r, zx44rr, and new r457: need little bit of mischief - all this 250-450cc sportbikes may satisfy your needs.
Totally agree I have a RE 350 for commute, Svartpilen 250 as a performance naked sport and gonna buy vstorm 250 for touring…not all day u gonna do 150 -180 atleast in Indian condition…been riding for 8 years now, never needed more than 120 kms while cruising which is safe nd enjoyable
I don't agree. If you're experienced, a big cruiser is a wonderful thing on the highways. For learning, a dual purpose, 250 class and a season of LOTS of trail riding will go a long way towards saving lives and injuries. After a year, consider a 650, 750 class road machine. You'll be learning a whole new riding situation, you're safer, for knowing how to control braking, clutch, corner, and basic skills. If you like, get a bigger one later. I live on miles of dirt roads. My 1200 has a few miles just to get to the highway. We do what we need to.
When i go for touring, I’ll usually cover 600 kilometres per day, and i ride a Dominar 400. Which is more than enough for a fun smooth ride. And I hate people who asks about top-ends. They’re not enjoying the journey.
Well I traded in my 2021 MT07 for a 2023 ZX4RR and totally enjoy it a lot more. It's so much more exciting to ride on the country winding roads I ride on. It has more then enough power to ride on the bypass around my town doing 70 and above. I don't need to do over 80 on the Interstates. The wind is not your friend.
On the topic of 400cc. I agree but draw the line more around 700cc. It think a bike with at least 40 ft/lbs of torque is needed to cruise on the highway without feeling like you're really ringing out the poor engine. Engines working well below their max capacity experience a lot less stress.
Totally agree on the last one. So many bike reviews are like "Is the SuchandSuch 900cc fast enough to ride on the highway?" And the answer is usually "No, it can do it but it struggles and its dangerously slow, you'll get run over"
If I lived somewhere with twisty mountain roads, yes. 400cc would be all I’d need. But, if you have to ride any major highways or interstate, you need something bigger with more than 1 cylinder. Even small twins work hard at 80mph on the super slab.
Your take on the Hayabusa is absolutely correct, UNTIL YOU RIDE ONE! I have had several sport bikes over the years, and then made the mistake of testing a Busa. That experience planted a seed that eventually, years later, unavoidably grew into ownership. Resistance was futile. My subsequent experience reminds me of the quote "Love is the feeling you get when you like something as much as your motorcycle." We are inseparable. Long live the Busa :)
He's talking about new ones being made. I mean they aren't exactly uncommon on the second hand market
I'm not a busa fan, I'd rather take the new one than an old one. @@jacobwhite9961
It's kind of weird, but there are just some bikes that are really very "meh" on paper and you don't think much of them, then you get on them and their like f*@%ing paradise, just simply imaginably fun or great and you're totally whacked from out of left field and left all confused and giggling (and with sticky underwear). I've never ridden a Busa and I'm not really a fan of sport bikes, but something tells me this is one of those "surprising" bikes.
@@carlosf.chancellor9693 Sounds like you're describing an Air-Cooled Ducati, or a Hopped up Buell/Sportster.
I simply can't agree with you.
That is my opinion. I've had plenty of fast bikes and ridden every one from the 'Busa era. None of the lardy arsed Busa era bikes comes anywhere close to a modern sports bike through the corners and that, in my opinion, is why the 'Busa is sh1t. It is also the reason why the Busa has had a very limited past in Europe, where virtually none of them were on sale for more much than about 4 years, while they have been on constant sale Stateside since their introduction.
On this side of the pond, there really aren't many people who are interested in power over everything else, and that is why the VMax was on sale for only a few years and the Busa likewise, just as with the ZZR14 and other power-over-everything machines.
And I would argue that something like the KTM SD1290 has just as much of a gut-wrenching push from its torque as the Busa, especially as the Katoom is so much lighter. That the Super Duke is actually fun through the corners, where a Busa is simply unpleasant just piles on the pain for the Suzuki. And I know that the Suzuki is capable of accelerating fast (once it has been fettled) and that a supercharged Busa is about as fast an accelerator as it is possible to be on 2 wheel. But I, just like the guy in the video, get far more fun out of riding through corners than by blasting along straights. And I have zero interest in having my corners completely destroyed by rubbish handling.
I agree 400cc is more than enough. I am really liking how the Indian market is bringing forth the development of the 400cc segment. If you live in a city 400cc is more than youll ever need.
we need a true performance 400 though and i dont mean power i mean low weight with great suspension
@@SDrizzyThat's what the KTM RC390 is, fully adjustable WP suspension, Brembo brakes (well, Bybre, but that's just Brembo's cheap brand), very low weight and a very shocking electronics package for the class especially after 2022. TFT dash, traction control, wheelie control, switchable ABS which uses an IMU in order to also do cornering ABS. It's really just a superbike with a lawnmower engine
@@SDrizzy ummm. the ktm 390s, new triumph 400s, BMW 310s? theres even a new aprilia 457 coming out
@@fieryspy6414 the 2024 model
@@SDrizzyzx4rr
I agree with the 400cc. A lot of people just buy really big motorcycles and never learn how to actually ride them or never take them on a track. They just gun it on the highway and eventually get into an accident. Sure going in a straight line is fun but after a while they thrill goes away and it requires no actually skill. Learning how to properly ride a small displacement motorcycle is one of the best skills you can teach yourself and will ultimately make you a better rider.
Your criticism seems to be about the riders and not the motorcycle. What about someone who buys a big bike and does learn how to ride it?
@@ntdscherer You're correct. I am mostly criticizing motorcycle riders that start off on large displacement motorcycles and never end up learning the fundamentals and techniques of riding a motorcycle. They just own a liter bike to hold the throttle wide open on the highway putting their as well as other peoples lives at risk in pursuit of acceptance among the riders who buy large displacement motorcycles because they have to have the fastest bike.
There are people who buy large bikes because they are very attracted to them, that can be adventure bikes or even cruisers. I am just advocating for more riders to at least practice fundamentals. It leaves a bad reputation for bikers and especially for new riders who think that they have to buy large displacement motorcycles to fit in who then end up crashing not two months later.
These are also the liter bikes that are for sale, used with less than a thousand miles on the clock. Poor fellow, never did get used to the big cow, scared the hell out of him every time he rode it.
An adventure is what ever you make of it, little bikes will get you almost anywhere you want to go.
@@paul5683 You didn't read my second comment.
I’m 60 and have 4 bikes. The largest engine is a 2001 zx6r I’ve had since new.
2021 z400
2024 klx 230s
2001 kl 250 super sherpa.
I’ve had bigger bikes over the years but prefer smaller lighter bikes.
You can't kill the busa they just need to supercharge it😂
Honestly, if they did that, it would be legendary… and incredibly smart for the Hayabusa/Suzuki….
Suzuki needs to make a statement with engineering ideas… it’s like they are asleep over there… definitely complacent, at the very least.
Suzuki will kill it anyway. They're planning to go full electric soon
You can supercharge it. Moore Mafia does that type of work.
@@literallyhuman5990then we will have an electrobusa.
@@Rose_Butterfly98 i bet those hardcore busa and Gixxer nuts gonna hate it
The abs issue you're having is a personal problem I think. I never get startled by it because I know it's just the abs doing its thing lol
Ditto. I’m perfectly comfortable with the noise and feeling of abs. Even in a pinch.
Yeah it was weird hearing him talk about riding error that he makes and blaming it on the bike.
btw, why is he using the rere breaks to slow down!
@@rimilmurmu10 I guess he wants to fall off the bike :D
@@rimilmurmu10 Because you should generally use both brakes.
The Busa was introduced as a sport bike but it's basically its own category, it's half cruiser (comfortable + big) and half sport bike (fast in a line). So even if there are better sport bikes, that's no reason for Suzuki to kill the platform, because it'll still sell well.
They'll kill it, they are already planning on going full electric soon. They are even preparing to release Electric GSX in Indonesia to test the market
What's the model name on that?@@literallyhuman5990
i consider the busa and the zx14 to be 'super sport touring'
The busa is a sports tourer with bias to wards touring
@@literallyhuman5990 where did you read that that are going full electric?
I would agree that beyond 400cc isn't really necessary for a single rider, though the 650cc class of power is a lovely place to be. If you have a passenger often then I do think those rules change a bit.
My unpopular opinion would be that most brands focus on the wrong features; make the bike LIGHT, design a solid engine, and sort out the suspension, and you have a hot seller. Most bikes are too damn heavy.
Most bikes are heavy because they need to pack a shitload of safety features on it, and also make it cheap.
@@DerpEye My Svartpilen weighs 150kg.
@@DerpEye
It's only really the ABS that adds anything more than a few grams.
Everything else is engine management and you'd be lucky to get 500g out of the extra sensors that are added over a "bare" fuel injected motorcycle.
@@HeldIntegral sounds like a skill issue
For me there are 3 types of bikes: the tourer/ naked/ adventure bike for daily commutes and comfortable long distance rides, the crotch rocket for putting the knee down at the track, and the enduro you don't mind damaging for the sake of off-roading. 1 and 3 are all I'll ever need and want. Great therapy and keeps you young.
I have a friend with a Hayabusa and he's the slowest rider I know. It's painful riding behind him as he's always on the brakes and keeps slowing through a corner until he's out the other side. I really feel for that bike. It's like keeping a gorilla in a bird cage. My usual comment about him is that he's wasting at least 1,000 ccs because he could just as well be on a 250. There should be some sort of rescue organisation that will rescue mistreated bikes like this, just as animal rescue works.
😂😂😂 what name should the organization have?
If he's trying to rip canyons on the busa he's dumb.
But you getting mad that he's not agile on that is equally dumb
@@Daniel-dj7fh Thinking that you can't have fun on a Busa in the twisties is just dumb.
I mean you sure can, but that's like at the same genre of having fun with a RoadGlide.
And on the money/weight/necessity -to-fun scales there are much cheaper, more nimbly and practical bikes to have the same or not more fun on with.@@countryjoe3551
Because you can also have alot of fun with a grom or a 50cc scooter in the twisties, it's just very relative.@@countryjoe3551
The only bike I've owned so far is my current Duke 390, and i agree that there really isn't a need for more. It has plenty of get up and go, and raking through an entire gear box within road legal speeds is far more engaging than sitting in 2nd must feel like. Sure, it's only "sportscar" quick rather than "supercar" fast, but on a bike where you actually feel the wind it still feels quick enough.
I'm like you though, far more interested in a corner than a straight line and the little Duke excels at that.
YES !!! I love riding my noisy vibrating road legal KTM 500 EXC ;) It more fun then my old 1985 Yamaha FZ750 I used to have that was what I call jailbait murdercycle... I could never control myself on that and always ended up going in 1 year in jail speeds with it. My KTM 500 is so unpleasant at that speed that you never go that fast lol ;) And there is plenty of fun to have just driving at normal legal speeds.
Partially agree, I enjoy my Duke 390 when riding through the Black Forest Germany, but it’s a pain on the autobahn or long high speed corners, cause the moment you hit around 140 it’s crawling its way up to 170 slowly (I maxed out at 171km/h before hitting the rev limit), that’s why I would go up a notch to 650cc. Been riding the 390 for over a year now
Coming from someone who's second bike was a Suzuki RG250, maintenance is the only thing that 4 strokes have over 2 strokes. I learned more in the 2 years that I rode that Suzuki than I have learned in over 20 years of riding 4 strokes. It is the only bike that I truly regret letting go, and I've owned quite a few bikes. If I could find one in good condition for a reasonable price, I'd add it to my collection in a heartbeat.
And I'd argue that a 650cc class twin is better than a 400. You don't have the small bike feel like you do with the 400's, but they're still easy to throw around IMO. You have the advantage of 0-100km/h in under 4 seconds, which beats a lot more cars on the road. Plus there's the additional torque that can get you out of trouble with just a twist of the wrist.
I had a Suzuki RGV250 and it's one bike I'm so happy to have gotten rid of. It cured me forevermore of wanting a 2-stroke. I got a CBR600F2 soon afterwards and was much happier with the experience of ownership.
@@langhamp8912 You should have got the RG instead of the RGV. With less power & a smaller front wheel, the RG was easier to ride & carved corners with an ease that I've yet to see matched with any other bike. Cornering was so sharp that I used to overtake cars on the inside on hairpin bends at speeds that I wouldn't even dream of on any other bike.
@@ADingoTookMyDasco Well, there was that TZ250R that was a lot more powerful and lighter. And any model of the Yamaha R6. But I was referring more to the cost of maintaining an RGV as a daily rider instead of its handling. I buy most of my bikes as 99% commuters, and 1% trackday, with the occasional very rare group ride thrown in.
I think an important issue about buying larger bike is stability and longevity. You hit the open road on a 300 and it will get buffeted by the wind. It might do 160: but at 100 it is still working hard. Plus things like going up hills or overtaking strain the engine , I have a GSX1250FA that can sit stably on the road in strong cross winds and can travel 500 kilometres in a day without and issue and barely notices hills. And it isn’t too slow around tight bends. And that motor is going to outlast a lot of other because it just doesn’t need to be worked hard. I have my FZ8 for revving and cornering fast. And I’m not into riding hard & fast enough to justify an R1 or a GSXR. So what I have suits the highway and the tight corner riding I do, but I could never go back to a small bike. Even if it had the top end power, I’d be ruining its’ neck just to ride how I wish.
That's a gearing thing tho.
The bigger the bike the more it's working (assuming all parts are built with the same materials), because the bigger bike will need beefier parts which weigh more and lead to more stress. Now a 125 is weak af, but anything really mid-classed will pull your ass up a mountain and do what ever revs. Because the engines are also designed to rev, that's why there is a limiter at some point. Or does any handbook state that you can't rev the bike at (example) 7000rpm for a certain amount of time?
@@Daniel-dj7fh Actually I disagree. The bigger, 4 cyl motor has smaller pistons than a 2 cyl 650. 1000cc/4 = 250cc/cyl and 650/2 = 325cc. The bigger bike will spool faster, rev easier and work less hard. Also, the higher you rev you engine the faster it wears out. If I ride at 5000rpms and you at 7000, your engine, assuming the same build quality will break down sooner. That's why you'll see big bikes easily going over 100k km while the smaller ones not that much.
Bigger engines, 1000cc, for instance have a higher rev ceiling than smaller engines with bigger pistons and valves. The rev limiter is there to prevent the motor to self destruct and also to prevent valve floating. Smaller engines have lower rev ceiling for a reason.
They might be smaller, but they have to endure way more revolutions and from the power alot more bangs, meaning that those cylinders have to be alot more stable. Which could then come at the cost of weight.
I've noticed lower rev ceelings on bikes with lower cylinder counts not displacement or power. A 2500cc Rocket3 isn't revving to 14k rpm either.
Yes at 7000rpm your engine wears out more than at 5000rpm, but my 500 does 120kmh at around 5000rpm, I'd not have to rev higher. And my bike doesn't have the best gearing for high speeds.@@johnnyblue4799
Very true.
I have a KTM 400 Military and feel like im torturing it when going 100km/h.
A thing that a bigger displacement bike does without breaking a sweat.
A really light bike isnt always a good thing either, since it becomes unstable at higher speeds.
Also bike size tends to match the displacement.
I dont fit on a 390, 890 fits better and 1290 fits like a charm. Downside of not having different framesizes like mountainbikes do.
Thats just rationalization . a 400 would be the sweet spot for displacement then
Keep voicing your opinion. It's worth seeing your vids and interesting to see people's comments.
Motorcycling is a passion, business of the heart directed by the brain.
Keep riding! ❤
400CC opinion on point. My 650 is a killjoy in most places aside from long high speed highway hills where the power is handy.
Everywhere else I find myself wishing for more gear changing action.
Piece of information that could change your mind: At 6 foot 4 inches (193cm?) and a 34 inch (86.36cm?) a touring bike is too cramped for me. I rode a same year R1200RT and a GS back to back and the GS is more comfortable for me hands down. It just has more leg room which is more comfortable for long days riding.
I personally got a r1200gs after a detour lead me down a rough 22 miles gravel road. I decided that I wanted a touring bike that could handle whatever the road threw at me, and I often ride two-up so I wanted the extra torque, but yes for actual ADV riding the middle weight segment is much better.
If all you ever do it ride solo then I’m sure 400cc is all you’d need, but I wouldn’t want to carry a pillion on my 310gs on a multi-day cross country ride.
The 400cc statement is too true. I had a Svartpilen 401 last year and I never wished for more power, except on the Autobahn. 170kph isn´t fast enough sometimes, even the least powerful cars can go faster.
Anywhere else though... Yeah, I ate most cars for breakfast, I only wanted more to annoy those Golf GTI and Cupra dingleheads.
If you don´t live in Germany, you never NEED more power than this. It´s only a question if you WANT more.
I find 75-100 hp is the most that one can use (with skill) on the roads. Ideal is probably 50-75 hp, depending on bike size. My V-Strom is 67 hp, but it's geared short and it's a hunk. Top speed sucks, but that teaches me to ride better.
Totally right about the 400 cc bike part. I do think however, if you're carrying a passenger often, or heavy weights, something like 60 - 100 hp bike with good torque would be nice
Edit : go to replies for motorcycle debate club
nah even for that 400cc is more than enough.
@flippy5118 what aspect would you say its lacking on? yeah the acceleration time may get reduced by 0.5 seconds but nothing to really sweat about. A 125cc can push through with 4 people riding on board. A 400cc is more than capable.
@@fieryspy6414 400cc bikes don't sound good. I ride a 600cc supersport because it looks and sounds amazing. 400cc looks okay and sounds lame asf. My first bike was a yamaha R3, and while i enjoyed the bike, i enjoy my 600 a lot more.
@@CBRyan_600rr there are plenty of 400cc bikes that look good and sound good. But there isnt a lot to choose from as most of them are single cylinders. Something like the benelli 302 comes to mind, royal enfields. But ofc bigger the bangs and more the cylinders better will be the sound.
@@CBRyan_600rr cfmoto 450ss gonna be a banger💥
I agree, I love the Suzuki style, but I would love for them to try something else in the "fast straight and nothing else". I love this kind of bikes, as a rider with just better than average capacity, having a bike that I can handle on the turns at the limitation speed but has incredible straight lane power is how I get my kicks.
I have a weird feeling Suzuki is going out of the Sports class, the only supersport they offer on the German website is the gsx125r..
Ducati spot on, an old neighbor i had bought it as his first biike. Laid it down on his 2nd ride with frinds on twisty roads and never rode again.
lmao
Hey CC, as an Africa Twin rider I can tell you that although I use it mostly for touring, as you suggest in the video, 95% of the time we are touring 2 up. A 700cc bike is just not going to cut it and would always feel like the frame is at it’s limit, while the big touring bikes are more than double the price, even over the already expensive CRF1100L! If you have any other alternatives in mind that could do the job just as well, I’d love to hear your thoughts 😁 Cheers!
My V-Strom 650 handles me (215lbs) and my wife (150lbs) two up just fine, neither the engine nor frame feel stressed. Not as dirt capable as an AT of course, but still plenty for my needs which is mainly to reach campsites down dirt roads and mild trails that my sport bike would be very iffy on.
@@johncaswell2648 we like to take long rides and the AT is our primary vacation vehicle, so it sees a mix of highway and B roads. I had a CB500x before and we were just getting blown away on the highway by larger vehicles and strong winds, whereas the AT is very planted and isn’t affected at all. As you mentioned, everyone has their own needs, I find bigger bikes more stable for my use case in particular. Best regards!
unless you both are north of 300lbs most mid sized bikes have payloads of 500lbs most people are fine carrying the things
No idea about lbs, but my cb500x had a max payload of 180kg, which although we are both fit and weigh about 140kg combined, doesn’t leave much room for luggage and some change 🤷🏻♂️
Not to mention overtaking power and uphill performance
bigger bikes are easier to ride. as I get older I get lazier and don't want to have to down shift three times for every corner. big twins are best, find a gear and stay there. that's also why I love electric bikes, no shifting. I get enough of that dirt biking. small bikes are fun too but sometimes you just wanna chill and watch the scenery go by.
Lool soo true
This video is brilliant! More of these please! Unpopular opinions: 1. People new to the track should not ride 1000cc bikes since they ride slow in the corners. 2. AGV is like Ducati as either rich newbies buy it or experienced riders who can appreciate them. 3. Knee sliding on the public roads rarely make you faster. It's for the show.
*It's all about unstressed performance* with the Hayabusa, it is the reason you don't drive in second gear at highway speeds even though second gear can reach it.
Hayabusa isn't a bike, it is a lifestyle accessory, it isn't to about doing 0-60 or 186mph, is about doing 50mph *UNSTRESSED,* its something that makes general commuters, sport enthusiasts and cruiser lovers happy. Sure Rolls Royce doesn't need 5.75L engine, but having 5.75 L relaxes performance.
Together with a friend we own (& regularly ride!!) about 30 popular Japanese year 70's and 80's motorbikes (250,400,750,1000,...), different brands. I can tell you that the 'good old indestructible bike from whence' is very much at the end of it's life; insulation of wires and electrical plugs are failing totally, carburetors are cracking, O-rings are hard & start to leak,.... Most of this started when the bikes were +30y old.
BUT most of these items can be repaired/replaced fairly easy if you are a bit handy. Not so with modern bikes with ECU & fuel injection & ABS,....
Started on a Honda XR200R went up to a CB550. After a year I got a Triumph Bonneville T100. Now I’m finding my self enjoying a smaller bike like my new Honda Monkey. It’s fun and very nimble. Ride safe ✌️
I'll argue against abs v no abs. Pull the fuse, you don't have abs. At the end of the day abs gets more butts in the seat because it seems easier & insurance is less of you have it.
That's a good take! The more riders the better.
That's true, but his take was about rudimentary abs, which I have to agree is scary as hell. My Z650 abs has saved me as much times as it's just taken all my braking away and nearly killed me, just from some slightly uneven road or even a speed bump, removing all braking force. However the ZX4RR abs is entirely different, much less intrusive, and works only when I really get in trouble
@stickybuds05 that's what pulling the Fuze is for.
@@houjous5131 I wish it was that simple on my bike. But it throws engine lights and screws up the speedo. Apparently not that simple, I've browsed forums but there's no simple way to do it
@stickybuds05 the light goes away when you plug the Fuze back in, and even if it lights on, the bike still runs. Not sure why your speedo cares about the abs for accurate data.
Great video with well considered points. I just wanted to share my view on ADV bikes...
The classic argument is its too big to do gnarly single track. Yes. They are. And a dirt bike is too small to do a 4000 mile two week ride. The ADV bike is the compromise.
But if you're just going to ride pavement, why not get a touring bike? The riding position is generally more comfortable on an ADV bike. After 5 or 6 hrs on the road, standing up to see if your butt is still there or died a couple hours ago is easy on an ADV bike, but on some touring bikes, not so much, especially a Harley touring bike. Don't get me wrong, I have a Road King and love it, but standing while riding involves a death grip on the bars and a stomach crunch, so you only do it for 20 or 30 seconds.
The T700s and the like are better off road, but worse for distance. People will ride them long distance and say it can be done. Sure. A guy road and R1 around the world, too, but that doesn't mean I want to do it. I have an F800GS. I've done 4500 mile trips on it. And man am I tired at the end of a full day of riding. Less so on my bigger bikes. Bigger bikes are just more solid, and generaly provide better wind protection so you're getting beat on by the wind much less all day long. But also, their frames are more robust out of necessity, so the bike is just more solid.
I think the biggest market should be crossovers not adventure bikes. Since 90% of adventure riders dont take their bikes offroad what they want is a Tracer 9 GT, KTM 890 SMT, or a MV Agusta Turismo Veloce. They want the ergonomics of the Adventure bike, as well as the more plush suspension for bad asphalt, but they dont need the compromise in wheel size, tires fitted and suspension setup for offroad that Adventure bikes have. But there isnt actaully that much on offer in this segment.
Chaos! You are wrong on almost every point! 4 strokes are only better due to the continued development that they have benefited from. Hayabusa's, and their ridiculous torque, must stay with us! Adventure bikes are great! Your argument applies to so many things that we enjoy in life. Keep up the good work!!
I started riding a little over a year ago on an A2 license, currently own a RC390 and 390 Duke. Originally after about 2-3 months I wanted something faster, the little 390 wasn't really doing it for me anymore, fast forward a few more months and I don't want to get rid of them anymore because I know if I get something faster I won't be able to have as much fun with it on the road. The only real reason I want something faster now is for more comfort on the highway because sitting at 7000rpm for a long period of time is rather annoying. Obviously being a biker I'm well aware that eventually I will give into the urge and buy something faster but realistically it's just not necessary.
I'll argue for the big adventure guys too. Lots of old guys like going Down dirt roads. They don't do it fast but that's exciting for them. Going camping with 100lbs of stuff on 2 wheels is peak endorphins for them.
To think a different way, I'd rather adv dad's then adv dad's trying to look like 1%ers
I borrowed a JDM CB400 SF with a suspension and brakes overhaul and have been a small bike person ever since. Honda should bring back the VFR400 to compete with the Kawasaki zx4rr. So so fun
When it comes to ABS, I think we all should actively practise losing the rear and controlling fishtailing. Also, combi braking is a very good practice which most aren't good at. My Honda 180cc only has a single channel ABS (front) and it's very intrusive. It's only when I started practising combi braking and progressive squeezing of the front lever that I truly figured out how to not let the ABS intervene and even then, the ABS does intrude from time to time.
I'd suggest it's more down to a lack of feedback from the cheap brake setups than an overly intrusive ABS system.
It's something I struggled with on a loaner KTM Duke 390 when my RC8R (no ABS or traction control) was in for a major service and a sensor replacement.
Basically the caliper starts to really bite late on in the lever's travel, leaving a narrow range of good braking force before the ABS sensor is triggered.
In my opinion, don't make an opinion on a bike like a Hayabusa that one's never had nor ridden and compare it to a one truck pony liter track bike especially if lack of experience of long haul trips,sport touring, and ability of handling a bike like that. Being able to cross country like Germany on a bike like the Busa or ZX14/ZZR1400 in day is an experience that only a few riders get to. So let Suzuki and orders make these bikes for those who can ride and leave the specs sheet to the kids to play with.
Well I agree that a poorly implemented ABS system could be dangerous. But tbh I haven't experienced an ABS system (car or motorcycle) that doesn't pulse. It's just... doing it's thing. The dangerous thing you are describing in the video isn't poor ABS, rather your weird/bad habit. Besides - mostly agree on the rest.
The Busa isn't meant to be compared to litre superbikes. The GSX-R fills that niche. Nothing was said about the 1400 Kawasaki..Why is it still viable in your opinion.
I dissagree about the 400 cc bikes, dont get me wrong, I love good 400 and I agree that for most people its enough, but for example for touring or longer commuting bigger displacment is better. You see, if you ride something like duke 390, to reach good highway speed you need to be pined at gas and hold it there for long periods of time, its uncomfortable and painful. Its better to have bike with bigger displacment where you dont need to catch carpals every time you ride.
I ride a cb500f the only time I'm pinning my gas is when I'm trying to do a 170kmh top speed run, which I've done 3 time during one ride back home in the past 5 years.
It does 120-130kmh no questions asked at half revvs.
If I pinned my 2nd gear I'd be doing 90kmh, and in the city that's a very big fine. Might even lose my licence.
2up 100kmh and higher could be a problem. But I've also lived with a 125cc for 2 years so I know what actual slow is (Still haven't ridden a 50cc tho if I'm honest).
@@Daniel-dj7fhevery bike feels different I guess. I used to ride a Svartpilen 401 (which is basically a Duke 390) and to get up to speeds like 120km/h or even just 100km/h and keeping it at that speed for longer periods of time it’s just not comfortable and since I switched to a Versys 1000 it felt so much better to take those long roads
I think this only applies to sport and sport naked bikes. If you vowed to stay under 400cc and we’re afraid of an old bmw airhead because you think it’s be too much power you’d be a fool. Also this would rule out every Harley since like 1930.
I agree with you on that. Not just long commutes, every commute outside heavy traffic in the city in general. With a smaller displacement bike you have to downshift and rip it in order to simply overtake someone. I think something around 130hp is the sweet spot for most bikes. I don’t have much experience riding big bikes due to my license limitations, but the 50hp im used to is pretty underwhelming compared to a ktm 1290r i was riding on as a backpack.
Who would have thought a 50hp bike is underwhelming compared to a 160hp bike.@@halo-7797
For the last point about 400cc is enough. I think that misses the point that bikes are toys to people. The whole bike is superfluous why stop at the power. Also just because we have top speed limits we often don't have acclration limits. So quicker bikes to the speed limit can be enjoyed legally
About the big adventure bikes, in my opinion having a R1250GS is mostly just about your own personal liking. It is true that you don’t necessarily need those 1250cc but it’s just like choosing between a luxury SUV, a high performance sports car, a sedan, or pretty much anything else, it’s just up to you, and even if having the most luxurious SUV isn’t really that useful or even if it doesn’t make sense, you just take it because you like it :)
Plus those guys keep the wheels of the economy turning which benefits us all. Like Apple fanboys :)
If you're looking for a practical and fun commuter, you should go for a Maxi Scooter like the Yamaha XMax or the Kymco AK550 instead of buying a motorcycle and strapping several boxes onto it.
I know bikers hate scooters, but if I'd gotten 1 dollar each time I heard someone say they wouldn't go back to motorcycle after driving a high displacement scooter, I'd be able to buy a new one myself.
In my opinion, new isn't always better. When motorcycle companies go to the limits of materials, this doesn't always go hand in hand with reliability.
Old Honda and Suzuki engines (especially built in Japan) are much more resistant than many new engines.
Not all two strokes leak everywhere (maybe it's an Aprilia thing 😅), e.g., Honda's old NSR 2-stroke models around 1990 are built tight and don't leak other than the exhaust flange. But I agree that 4-strokes are overall better (e.g. regarding emissions)
100% agree!
BTW, enjoying your videos, always nicely made 🙂
You also have to consider many people just don't know how to take care of their stuff.
The US seems to have big issues with VW's and BMW's having engine problems, I don't think I've ever heard anyone over here in Germany complain about that.
Here people only talk about how shit VW's interior is for the money
@@Daniel-dj7fh geh mal zum schrottplatz in deiner nähe und guck dir an wieviele bmws da stehen. Oder frag mal nen t5 besitzer, ob er noch den ersten motor drinnen hat
Schließt das die Fahrer aus? Glaub nicht@@BlogVomMax
The Worst 400cc bike is KTM RC 390, Astonishingly uncomfortable and impractical.
This week I saw a guy in full gear riding a modded Africa Twin, just going to the store to buy a bottle. Maybe a bit overkill, but he looked like he was having a pretty good time. Bike was huge, a little bit like an elephant, really.
I mean, do we know where or how much he rode before getting to the store? I cross the border to buy KFC, just to have an excuse to ride longer 😂
@@goduxunike Yeah good point, maybe he was making a day of it.
"It's basic because I feel pulsation" is such a silly thing to say.
That's just how ABS works, and that acts as extra information to the rider. look at new Fortnine video about ABS, there is a nice explanation there.
That feedback also allows you to feel the edge of the grip and safely try to break to the max point, as overbreaking won't fuck you up thanks to ABS
And pulsing is just an effect of how every ABS is constructed, trying to isolate it from the brakes to not have pulsing would just make whole system more complex and less reliable
Some great opinions, I started on 2 strokes - loved them, got even better when they added oil injection systems that negated the need to premix the fuel, but the reliability and convenience of 4 strokes won me over, and now most 2 strokes are just not available. Never understood the Hayabusa revival, nor the appeal of a big adventure bike, although most of that is down to an insufficiency in the leg department.
Last month, for the first time, got to ride a motorcycle with ABS and traction control, when I bought my new one. It's uncanny. It just won't slip. I'm sure I could get myself in trouble, but for commuting back and forth to work and riding in no particular direction on the weekends it's amazing.
I love your videos man. But did you do any research on the Hayabusa besides looking at the HP, TQ and weight numbers? The internals are stronger that pervious models, the engine is way under stressed so it will last a long time, it makes more power everywhere else in the rev range over the Gen 2 but yes lost 7 crank HP on the very top where you spend almost zero time. Look up Busa's doing track days here on youtube as well. They aren't just a straight line can't turn drag bikes unless you make it that way. It's more comfortable than any liter bike out there too. I've owned a Blackbird VFR800 5th gen FZ/MT-10 SV650S as well as seven other bikes in my 26 years of riding and now a Gen 3 Hayabusa. It's not a perfect bike but none are. These days of every bike being a niche machine vs how streetable sportbikes used to be honestly sucks. You used to be able to ride a CBR954RR all day and not need a chiropractor after. When the CBR600RR came out Honda still made the CBR600 F4i and that I think is a better way to do things instead of every bike being so hyper focused. There's my unpopular motorcycle opinion.
Unfortunately, bro is just riding the spec sheets 🤦♂️
I owned several 400cc bikes, and yes - it is enough for city riding and slower b-roads, but if you live where traffic is more fast paced and you do longer travels on all kind of roads I found that I needed more horsies to feel safer. For example in my country the traffic is pretty fast - 140 km/h highways and 90 km/h for most out of city , even on more curvy/mountainous areas, and it is common for cars to speed a little above, so you need to be defensive and adaptive, and some times this requires power. Since I switched to 1200 cc I ride with almost the same speeds as on my previous 400cc bike but I feel less fatigue and can do longer hours, and most importantly I can be more adaptive to the modern traffic, like keeping up without stressing the bike and having quick access to power for different situations, avoiding tailgaters when safe and do faster overtaking when necessary, especially if the vehicle in front is creating dangerous situations.
Love your videos. Agree with everything…sort of. As a person approaching 50, that rides the sh#t out of my Tiger 900 RP off-road (in the USA), I like to think I’m the exception, though my circle of friends all seem to be exceptions as well. That said, though we likely don’t like to admit it, 3/4 of your time is on tarmac reaching the start of the trail in different states, therefore ADVs are the tailor-made solution! When you have 100lbs+ of gear for your 10 day trip, and are less than aerodynamic, certainty you need 75hp+ to ride and overtake trucks on on interstates etc. 400cc bikes don’t fit.
In my experience, ABS also depends on the brand making it. Haven ridden 2017 Kawasaki and now a 2022 BMW, its a huge difference. The kawa let you know when the abs kicked in by ticking but the BMW doesn't do that. you dont even notice it kicking in until you look at you app riding data and see how often it interveend.
I think feedback is always good, wouldn't bee too interested in the bmw, which one are you riding?
@@Daniel-dj7fh I have a 750GS. As far as I noticed there is no feedback. Don't see a downside to it's since it doesn't make you scared of slamming the brakes
@@Diablo97810 It's not about "scaring" you, how on earth are you gonna know when your tires actually lose grip if you can't feel the abs?
I agree with the last one. Since kawasaki released the zx25r, i always think like i'll be happy with it. I just hope they release a Z variant of it with the same engine.
A Z25RS would be beautiful! Yes, need more small bore fours please!
Hard disagree on the Busa, my man. Its not a performance bike, it's a sports touring bike. Its meant to go longass distances with just a metric ton of torque available to you at all times. Its super comfy and easy to ride, too. Just stick it in a gear, and let the clutch out. It'll be fine lmao
I have a 2015 390 duke with some mods on it like better mono shock at the rear, full system exhaust, and fresh forks and that thing is an absolute blast to ride here in italy with all these shitty but twisty raods… but i still want a faster bike to take on the race track like an rs660 and use it comfortably on the road
can't you use the 390 comfortably on the road? I have no issues with my old 125cc 11hp road hazard. My cb500f is also definitely never sweatting.
@@Daniel-dj7fh yes i do, the duke is very comfortable but the vibrations are incredibly annoying and for a little bit of travelling is not ideal, is even worse on the freeway, but apart from that is an incredible machine, i really love it
Vibrations are a thing on singles, that's true@@FraxeroneMemone
The Hayabusa is not a sport bike, it's a sport touring bike. Big adventure bikes weigh significantly less than baggers which are the only bikes that really rival the amount of storage available on motorcycles. As the owner of a Ducati Monster 696, part of owning one is the prestige the brand has, and the other is they're beautiful motorcycles. Also note, Japanese motorcycles don't use chipped keys so they're easier to steal. As for the 400cc debate, it's a bare minimum here in the US. When Yamaha sent its FZR-400 here, they had to bump up the displacement to 600 cc as the 400 wasn't selling. Was it really necessary? No. If I had a real job when they came out, I would have been the first one buying one. Anyway, good discussion.
I agree regarding the 400cc engine capacity being all we need. I moved to Japan several years ago and purchased myself a Ninja400 as I was a little cash strapped to re-purchase a zx6r I sold back home. Thinking I'll be replacing it in a year or two, I'm going on 4 years and no plans to replace it! The 48HP it puts out is plenty fast for the type of roads I like to ride on and light enough to be riding it around the city even with my wife on the back. I do however, miss the 4 cylinder sound so have been eyeing the zx4rr or the standard zx4r
2 stokes against 4 strokes it´s just diferent, it will only depends on what do you want, in my case I have an R6 to make speed, and a YZ 250X for enduro, I think to be use on the road obviusly the 4 stroke will go better, but a 2 stroke for enduro will be always my choise, fot the exact same reason you put on your video, they have a less engine break, less moving parts, they heat less, they rev faster and they are less likely to stall the engine when you are moving slow.
I rode a 400cc four stroke Suzuki impulse for 38 years. (2x bikes 1.7m kilometers). It could hit 242kph on the track (rpm limiter at 13700rpm) corner like a demon despite 1987/88 suspension. Had phenomenal brakes, and made a whole 53Hp. It required the rider to ride hard, but the bike loved being hammered.
These were favoured by motorcycle couriers, and f3 racers.
It was designed as a Japanese 400cc racer, sold overseas as a commuter to meet homologisation rules, because they were built asymmetric with the rear offset an inch from the centreline to suit the Japanese tracks.
I rode it severely overloaded at times because it was my day to day transport. I also rode it off road, through shallow boulder strewn rivers, and across farmland. The 158kg (dry) weight made it easy to ride in all conditions.
i mostly agree on the 400cc one but its just that i like to go offroad with bikes that can spin the back wheel easier so it would be better with like 500cc-700cc
5:13 Can you please explain this further? Wouldn't this effect cancel out if the 4 stroke has twice as many cylinders or twice a shorter gearing?
On the 400cc point It's absolutely more than you'll ever need if you live in Europe or in a city, but if If you live in a place that's a little bit more rural such as the states, then you can easily justify those larger bikes
On the last note, im a mt 07 rider (started on it), and my friend recently got his duke 390 (he started on it), after 3 months and a couple of rides with my bike, he would really really want to upgrade, but could not justify selling and buying another bike so fast.
So 100% 400cc's are not fast enough at reaching the speed limit
Yamaha MT 07 I would think is a great bike with it`s 67hp and 800 cc or so twin ;) I used to drive a 1985 Yamaha FZ 750 but the power in that one was 60km/h to 1 year in jail in about 2 second and that is why I now drive a road legal KTM 500 dirtbike.
Totally agree with the point about the ABS, but also agree with other commenters that it's partly a skill issue. After learning with no ABS, I eventually found with my '21 MT-03 I'd get the stuttering that felt like a foot scraping so I'd flinch, then when I got my '16 MT-10 I found the same thing. But I would put it down to my not often having to actually get the ABS to engage so it comes as a surprise when it does.
I have a 2020 Duke 390 and I love it most of the time but when I’m on the open road I do wish I had a bit more power for passing and just so I don’t have to thrash the motor so much. I’m 6’4” and ~100kg so maybe a lighter/smaller rider might have a better time with it. For commuting and just ripping around I love it. It’s an awesome bike. It’s only when I go out on a canyon ride that I wish I had an extra 10-20 hp. It would be cool if they made a Duke 590 with an inline twin. That would be sweet. Still small and light but with a little more grunt. I’m currently saving for another bike but I’m still thinking about just keeping the 390 because I really do love it to bits. It’s so fun.
For the 400cc stand. I considered using 400cc since I am using it going to work and occasional long rides. I choose 400cc because I can reach 170 to 180kph in an open road, can cruise inside the city, ride with my pinion plus my bags in long haul rides while just getting the fuel economy of a 125cc sports bike.
It is a very good starter bike for anyone who would like to beat the city traffic.
I would consider higher displacement if I have like 20k to 50k gran excess from my monthly savings😂
Personal anecdote: first bike was 400cc. the highways where I live have speed limits of 75mph, where drivers routinely drive at 90mph or above. My bike was screaming for dear life at 75mph and was terrifying to navigate the highways on. Side roads were fine but I eventually traded in for something larger that gave me more confidence in higher speed scenarios and riding with a passenger
Bigger displacement sport bikes are easier to ride faster on twisty mountain roads. Not so gear specific, less fussy. However smaller displacement bikes give a thrill when you can use all the power. I just sold a 2015 VFR and replaced it with a 2008 GSF1250sa, which is fully tuned, modified and built. It’s much easier to be faster on the Bandit with 130 HP and 100 ftlbs to the rear wheel as you can concentrate more on other things than gear selection.
I have never ridden any bike less than 650. A ER6N in driving school, and a 3rd gen 750c Magna now, so I cant talk about the fun that a 400 will get you, but I can talk about the Autobahn, since I am from germany. My bike has an official top speed of about 200 kmh, but me - as a heavy guy - sitting upright on it, she can only get up to 160 kmh. This is faster than the needed speed to keep up with traffic for sure, but still a bit disappointing.
But if a 750cc / 88 hp bike can only get me to 3/4 of its top speed, a 400 would probably only get me to 100-110, which is faster than the trucks, but slower than the suggested speed of 130, which most of the cars tend to keep.
So while I only take the Autobahn when I want to go home after a day of riding, this can still take over an hour of me being either stuck between trucks on the most right lane, or a nuisance if in the middle lane.
Besides, small displacement cruisers mostly look wierd if not ugly to me, thanks to the void generated by the small engine like the Rebel 300.
Not saying that your point is not valid, just saying that it is not valid for me personally.
I love all the opinions except for the last one. I think it depends more on where you live. I do 90% highway most days commute to work and sitting at 85 with a smooth large engine and not getting hit by any wind is something a 400 just isn't capable of.
I disagree on the big adventure bikes. I drove a Honda Transalp for many many years and now got a R1200GS. I tried the T700 and also touring bikes, like a XL1000 or even the massive tank named Goldwing. But there is some point, you might not understand. It is not about the single best bike. The T700 might be a great offroader. But in my opinion it is a pretty bad tourer. And a K1600GT might be a great tourer. But I would hate it as a daily driver. Good adventure bikes don't need to be the best at a single thing. They need to be capable of doing everything quiet good. If you choose a smaller bike like a Transalp and a KLR or a bigger bike like an AfrikaTwin or a BMW GS is personal taste.
And of course it is a matter of the country, you live in. I am German.
That's why I hate these comments about the allmighty Autobahn. They are not true in general.
Front brakes perform more(80-90% for streat/sport/etc) braking force's then rear. So breaking distance will be almost the same with or without rear brake. Of course if front will be used for maximum. And abs for front wheel might help a lot.
yeah but 400cc isn't good enough for my touring needs
1. I agree, but I think they didn't do a bad job refreshing the Hayabusa. Like they also resurrected the Katana. And I think a modern classic (if not taken seriously) is not a bad move. I also like that the ZX4R (or zx25r) being a modern zxr250.
2. I'm personally don't like the sound and smell of two strokes. Especially remembering all the wanna be racers on their two stroke 150cc bikes back then.
3. Getting scared about the abs jitter is a skill issue imo. you know it happenes, you know why it happenes. It shouldn't be an issue. My cb500f's rear abs is also trash, I just have to deal with it. Sure better abs is better than bad abs, but 90% of people won't be able to ride without abs, most of them can barely ride in a straight line.
4. No opinion on adventure bikes or tourers.
5. Don't quite understand the statement that Ducatis are beginner bikes.
6. I agree. But you can definitely break the speed limit on a 390 duke on the Autobahn. From first hand experience less than half of the Autobahn is actually limitless, and very so often there are signs saying you're only allowed to ride/drive 80, 100, 120 or 130 (somewhat uncommon to 120 signs) km/h. So completely within the 390's capabilities. And even if you're allowed to ride/drive faster, you usually can't because the roads are too full and it would be somewhat irresponsible and dangerous. I agree so much to the last point that I'm probably not gonna consider a 100hp+ bike ever, unless Yamaha re-relases their R6, and then it's just for the looks.
I agree with most of them, except for Abs one. Even the most rudimentary of Abs will save lives compared to a non abs on the road. The complaint about feeling is subjective and can be overlooked momentarily.
Another good thing about 400cc or 375cc in case of Duke390 and Dominar 400 is the cost of ownership. They are relatively cheap to run fuel consumptions are better, cost of part replacements are also cheaper, engine service is more budget friendly and overall a best motorcycle for daily riding.
400cc might be ok but if you ride many motorways the light part is a negative when windy. I learned on an MT-07 and the ABS is not that bad, if you practice breaking on the limit you get used to the feel, but I did get a chance to test a new BMW and the ABS was faster and smoother but for stopping distance it was not much better, staying on the limit just before the ABS kicks in is always the best.
You are taking a completely wrong point of view here - the Hayabusa was never a racing motorcycle, it was always a sports tourer. And it is precisely in this segment that it remains one of the best machines available on the market. The fact that it used to be the fastest production motorcycle in the world was just a positive side effect. In addition, the comparison with the BMW depends very much. Yes, the BMW is lighter and yes, it has more power and yes, they have the same top speed, but which motorcycle has more torque in which speed range? And this is exactly where you can see the difference in the area of application most. Quite apart from that, who cares today whether a motorcycle travels at 299 km/h or 312 or 308, where else are you supposed to ride that? And I say that as someone who has a motorway in Germany with no speed limit.
The hayabusa was designed to kill the blackbird, I don't think that's what sport tourers are
@@Daniel-dj7fh Still, that doesn't change the fact that both the Hayabusa and the Blackbird fall into the sports tourer category and therefore cannot be compared with 1000cc superbikes.
I do everything on my big ADV, including big adventures in the dirt. I don't find cruisers or touring bikes to be comfortable most of the time, but I like doing big road trips where the destination is the trail network I plan on riding. I hate the idea of loading a bike onto a trailer and mostly refuse to drive anything with more than two wheels, so I ended up getting a bike that truly does it all. That said, so many people really do buy adventure bikes just to ride them to Starbucks on the weekend.
400 cc is fine until you get in traffic on the freeway. I have the KTM 390ADV and rode it 40 miles at 65 mph yesterday. Every vehicle coming from the opposite direction pushed me. I have a Ducati Diavel 1260S and it does not get pushed around by other vehicles. The weight and wider tires keep it tracking straight. I also have a Ducati Scrambler Desert Sled (800 cc) and it is pretty much right between the KTM and the Diavel when it comes to wind buffeting at 70 mph. I consider it the bare minimum in engine size, tire size, and weight of bike for riding over 55mph. It is far more apparent when you have 3 different sizes to compare them day in and day out.
The Busa was amazing to commute far distance on the german highways without speedlimit as it is suprisingly comfy when going fast due to the long wheelbase. It lost this usecase today due to the dense traffic and high gas prices, but still has some of its appeal left from its glory days. I assume it will get dropped by Suzuki within the next years.
Cheap ABS is even more dangerous in the front if it acts too rough. I am a big guy and my previous commuter MT-125 was doing stoppies like crazy during safety training, even when fully leaning back and stretching my arms.
Luckily I could test this on the track so I learned to not use the full frontal brake preasure on that bike.
The 400cc rule is right, but as I am not a lightweight I went for a class higher and got a SFV-650 as my daily driver.
Fell in love with everything about it: Great fuel economy, enough power to cruise at low RPM, super reliable, big enough to carry some groceries but small enough to split lanes and also fun in the twisties at the weekend with less than 200kg weight after a few customizations.
Seems like I found my "keep forever bike".
You’re right on everything with one exception. I Disagree on your view of ABS. My z900 has it and when activated I can barely feel it. I’ve tested it just to see what I can expect. Very smooth and not intrusive
I owned a busa back then, and i called it the 90's viper of motorcycles. Might of been just me and my experience at the time but that thing felt like it wanted to leave me at the light more times than I could count
I personally drive a 4 stroke 650cc engine and i personally don't drive for the speed, but for the cruise itself. I usually don't go above 100km/h.
The one thing i noticed is that i really like to drive quieter and in my opinion in a lot of cases a 400cc might jus5 be too loud because you may need a lower gear. It is really rare of course, but since i drive on somewhat steep mountainroads i really like the 650cc but also wouldn't go above it because that truly is unnecessary in my eyes.
i currently riding a 321cc and im keeping up with mate on 1000cc on alot more rides than i thought i would, from take off and in realy sharp corners i do fine, its just on the straights going from 100 to 150 they will get there noticably faster and in the wide sloppy corner they pull out noticably faster,
but on the city rides with take offs a weaving thick traffic alot of the time i take the lead witch i didnt expect, so 300cc is fine for hooning in the right enviroment.
Suzuki Hayabusa is not a Superbike. It's a super tourer bike. Compare to s1000rr is so so so wrong.
I own a svartpilen 401, which is just a duke 390 with the husqvarna style. And honestly, my only two complaints about it are; being a 373cc single geared more towards top end power, it doesn't have quite as much torque as i personally like.
And even with a half decent wind screen, it's not very comfortable on long rides.
But yes, in terms of what i usually do with a bike, there are very few motorcycles better and more practical than it, one of which has the exact same engine in the form of the 390 adventure.
Everyone may think 400cc is enough until you get your hands into something 650+ and do it properly. Moved from a 400 to a 1k half a year ago (still own both) and been feeling the difference a lot, will not make sense at all for small commutes (less than 20 min), but longer rides comfort/fun and the safety of having power when you need is where the bigger displacements really shine.
The thing is with motobikes it’s a very individual thing one man’s nightmare is a other man’s absolutely dream bike.
And that’s good we are all bikers and have to respect each others 🤟
Paused the video after the busa segment to comment this.
Just to play the devil's advocate, I've heard many people say that the hayabusa is hands-down the best sport-oriented sport touring bike you can get. Maybe it isn't great on track, but as a sport bike to take on lighter packed trips (at least here in the US), I've heard many good things. It's sportbike power on a frame and engine that are more friendly to long interstate days. It should be noted that this isn't firsthand experience, but it's a message I've heard from many different people.
Now I'll continue watching.
I own a XSR900, I love the bike, power everywhere but the smaller engines are easier to fine tune the riding skills.
I live in a metropolitan area in Germany and have a motorcycle licence for almost 20 years now, but never owned a bike. 3 months ago I decided to buy a single cylinder 400cc cruiser, a Benelli Imperiale 400. I really love that engine size for a motorcycle, because it's not intimidating at all and really cheap. For 3 - 4k EUR you'll get a motorcycle that's capable of running 120kph. Which is about as much money as you'd pay for a scooter. Plus, spare parts and service is cheap as well.
However, if 120kph top speed is not fast enough for you, you most likely have to pay double than that (6 - 8k) in order to obtain a 650cc 50hp cruiser with two cylinders, that merely runs 30kph faster. Any engine even bigger than that can make you go even faster than 150kph, but I wouldn't go faster than that on a naked bike anyway. That being said, I just didn't see the benefit of paying another 3 - 4k just for being able to use the middle lane of the Autobahn instead of the right lane...
Agree with everything except abs. Yes experienced riders will outperform on a dry track but no one will outperform in emergency or in the wet. I own a ninja 400 and a road king and love them both for different reasons
I've got the same issue with abs. It sucks and just increases cost. Highways where I live are cruising north of 140kph. A 400 doesn't have much power left here. I think 600s are the biggest you need. Possibly 500 depending on hp and torque.
All agreed! My personal its “faster 400cc is pointless”. Totally right. I bought husqy svartpilen 401 at my first bike and still dont take limit over 120-140 km/h. Mb on track all 600+ cc is a reasonable choice, but in traffic you're either breaking the law, or you're moving along with the flow. And.. elephants in room - r3, zx25r, zx44rr, and new r457: need little bit of mischief - all this 250-450cc sportbikes may satisfy your needs.
Totally agree I have a RE 350 for commute, Svartpilen 250 as a performance naked sport and gonna buy vstorm 250 for touring…not all day u gonna do 150 -180 atleast in Indian condition…been riding for 8 years now, never needed more than 120 kms while cruising which is safe nd enjoyable
I don't agree. If you're experienced, a big cruiser is a wonderful thing on the highways.
For learning, a dual purpose, 250 class and a season of LOTS of trail riding will go a long way towards saving lives and injuries.
After a year, consider a 650, 750 class road machine. You'll be learning a whole new riding situation, you're safer, for knowing how to control braking, clutch, corner, and basic skills. If you like, get a bigger one later.
I live on miles of dirt roads. My 1200 has a few miles just to get to the highway. We do what we need to.
When i go for touring, I’ll usually cover 600 kilometres per day, and i ride a Dominar 400. Which is more than enough for a fun smooth ride. And I hate people who asks about top-ends. They’re not enjoying the journey.
Well I traded in my 2021 MT07 for a 2023 ZX4RR and totally enjoy it a lot more. It's so much more exciting to ride on the country winding roads I ride on. It has more then enough power to ride on the bypass around my town doing 70 and above. I don't need to do over 80 on the Interstates. The wind is not your friend.
Love 2 strokes so much fun to ride in motocross I’ll always be a 2 stroke guy
On the topic of 400cc. I agree but draw the line more around 700cc. It think a bike with at least 40 ft/lbs of torque is needed to cruise on the highway without feeling like you're really ringing out the poor engine. Engines working well below their max capacity experience a lot less stress.
Totally agree on the last one. So many bike reviews are like "Is the SuchandSuch 900cc fast enough to ride on the highway?" And the answer is usually "No, it can do it but it struggles and its dangerously slow, you'll get run over"
If I lived somewhere with twisty mountain roads, yes. 400cc would be all I’d need. But, if you have to ride any major highways or interstate, you need something bigger with more than 1 cylinder. Even small twins work hard at 80mph on the super slab.