I must admit I really respect your sacrifice to find the truth. It's not easy to do the stuff your doing. Well let's say it's not easy to go against the narrative. People like to defend their illusions. You know years ago Puma made a lockback that came Rockwell tested. That was more then 30 years ago. Shame they don't have those standards nowadays. Many don't understand how big a difference two points can be. Some can vary 56-60 that's a huge difference in performance.
It was was absolutely worth it. Most useful Magnacut related video out there, with real actual production knives, those we can get in real life. It is very very disappointing ! Especially for spyderco, I believed they did it at 64. Maybe it was the mule and they changed it for the salt series ? It is a shame really. I don't want a knife in Magnacut anymore and I will stick to my Native 5 LC200n for my very rare saltwater activity.
I can’t tell you how important I think this content is. You are fair and as scientific as possible with your equipment. This can only benefit the end user. Kudos on showcasing actual numbers. Hey Kershaw, pay attention!
It's a shame that the Manufacturers are doing an injustice to MagnaCut by not hardening it to its optimum hardness. I could care less about corrosion resistance, I take care of my knives. I do,however, care about edge retention. Thank You so much for thus Video! Outstanding Job, and excellent content!!
Its kinda selling us only steel name not performances. Happened to me with bento box para 2 i k390. I was curious and sent my knife to a local knifemaker. I was disappointed because i saw on some forums that was hardened to 64, mine was tested in 2 different places on blade and turned out 62.5hrc
@user-zx5yd4cf3y My friend (from Bulgaria?) do not be disappointed in your knife! K390 ideal hardness for edge retention vs. toughness is 62.8 and BTW the tester that your machine shop used is likely to have +/- 0.25 error. If they took it all the way up to 64, the result would be 40% reduction in toughness with only 5% increase in edge retention! Is it a good trade? Hopefully you kept the knife? Since Roman times, Forums are literally places for people to come to be heard, no matter how stupid they sound!
@@CuttingBoardRx The thing is that i saw on knifeforums Big Brown Bear posted his testings of k390 para2 and shown 63-64.5hrc. To be honest that attracted me so i activated my family from Florida to order knife and send me here because bento box doesnt ship to my country (im from Serbia). Sorry for broken English
@user-zx5yd4cf3y your English is perfectly fine! I’m Ukrainian btw. Do you sharpen your knives yourself? If yes, just reduce the angle by 1-2 degrees and it will eliminate any concerns about edge retention reduction!
@@CuttingBoardRx Yes bro i sharp all my knives by myself with very limited equipment (dmt coarse/fine/extra fine and strop with gunny juice 1 micron). I know resin bonded dimonds are better but they are too expsnive for me. Slava Ukraini!
I've been experimenting with a similar Leeb hardness tester. I think it's a worthwhile tester, although I need to send some blades out for testing on a calibrated, professional Rockwell tester to get a real read on accuracy. As I'm sure you know, the Leeb testers aren't really intended for this sort of thing. They're intended to be used on thicker/heavier materials, particularly with the Type D impact device you're using. Specifically, they're spec'd to be used on materials weighing at least 5 kg and with a minimum thickness of 5mm. The caveat is that they can be used on lighter, thinner materials if "coupled tightly" to a heavier piece of metal, like the calibration block. After some research, it appears that what they mean by "coupled tightly" is adhering the object (blade) to the block with Vaseline or some kind of grease to fill any gaps. I started getting better results when I started using grease between the block and the tang, although it looks like you're getting pretty good results without that addition. It would be interesting to see if your results come up a little using Vaseline or grease. Final note: even under ideal circumstances, these devices are rated to be accurate to +/- 0.5 hrc. I'm hesitant to publish bad results because I dont' entirely trust the Leeb tester for this kind of work. A low score can be the result of a lack of flatness rather than a lack of hardness. This is why I want confirmation from a traditional hrc tester. I've tested four Magnacut blades so far. As in your testing, Hogue (RSK in my case) did very well at 63.4, with the best being an American Blade Works Model 2, at 64 hrc on the money.
Thanks for the great comment! FYI: I consulted with a lab that uses this exact unit on US Navy ships and USMC vehicles to test mounted components that cannot be brought to an industrial tester. It’s definitely capricious but with some practice, I am getting consistent results. Industrial testers are calibrated within .25 HRC and zero shift of .25 is also allowed. So I’m content wit my accuracy. I do agree with your point about flatness, actually convexity and concavity are more frequent deviations, and that’s why I strike the blade in several places - to find the flattest surface. I then film the test for the video in that area. I also refused to recommend the tester to some of the viewers that asked me about it- it takes a no BS professional to run it and the blade ends up being puck-marked by up to 25-30 dimples. I would not recommend using lubricants around the probe for fear of contaminating the cartridge.
My fear is that cantilevering the blade even in the slightest manner provides a cushioning effect. I agree that grease runs the risk of doing the same. I wonder if a jig that has two small screw clamps could remove the variability and truly sync it to the test block. A huge thanks to the work you are doing!
@@CuttingBoardRx The lubricant actually goes between the test block and the tang of the blade, so the probe doesn't come in contact with it. It's used to form a tighter connection between the blade and the block.
@@BladeLabMiami clearly you don’t know how messy I can be! My nick name in the machine shop was butter fingers. Also “the edge finder” can you guess why?
Hey friend!! After your feedback!! I went ahead and got the Manix lw yellow 2 cpm magnacut for around 165 over the para 3 and hogue deka!! Since I already have a mini bugout and a mini griptilian i thought the bigger blade was a better decicion!! I almost bought the Cru-carta version but saved a little money Thanks again for your feedback
I'm guilty of spreading rumors of soft Italian heat treats. It was based on information from years back and I'm very happy things have changed. Definitely looking at some of the Viper and Lionsteel models more seriously now as I love their designs. Thanks for the video.
Turns out American made production knives had a soft heat treat. So much for made in the USA. Now I'm glad that i ordered the Lionsteel M4 in Magnacut instead of the Manix 2 Salt.
I knew Spyderco's CPM-S30V and CPM-CRUWEAR were awesome Steels! These are the Steels that I have in my Manix 2XL and Military 2 Folders that I absolutely luv. I knew those were good Steels! Thank you for proving this to me! Great Video! Keep up the good Work you're doing! :-) Peace, Stiletto :-)
In addition to advertised HRC, I’d love a standardized behind edge thickness measurement listed. Since geometry is so critical, but we don’t know how to expect cutting performance until we get it in hand.
It’s amazing how things have progressed. I took a break from knife collecting for what turned into the better part of a decade and when I got back, s35vn was considered mid tier. I collected striders specifically because of Micks work with Paul Bos on heat treat. If you know he revolutionized heat treat and actually sold his business to Buck. still have a few older bg42, pd1 and ats-34 blades from the early 2000’s. I’m considering unsubscribing from all other channels and just keeping yours. It’s the only channel actual giving is the important data not just how knife looks and feels.
@@floridaman727 hahaha 😂 don’t unsubscribe from other channels, just leave comments about my content on their feeds. After a while they will mute you themselves! But so what? if we convince even 10-15 youngsters to think critically, we’ve done our job!
About dealers listing HRC, you can look up the same knife at four different vendors and get four different ranges listed, at that point it's no longer worth a damn, I rather get information like that from channels such as yours.
That’s why you go to the source But even then, you only get a range Though personally, I Think that if you buy a knife that costs over 200$ for Chinese knives, and over 300$ for American knives, the manufacturer should test the blades before shipping, and have it written on a note in the packaging
@@bornonthebattlefront4883 Ye, and the manufacturer range is also somewhat hit or miss, depending on how often they actually test their batches after the initial run.
@@CuttingBoardRxthe interesting thing is that they state now on their website that they harden the bel air to 62-64 hrc. I don’t know if they changed their goal since you bought yours or if they are totally off their goal and ship blades that are way softer than what they aim for and claim.
@@Superbus753 They changed the hrc they aimed for. When bel air first came out, if I'm not misremembering, it was a 60-62 aim. As stated in the video, the bel air tested was an early run, so it's likely that they had an even poorer heat treat at that time, which would explain why it came in just under 60. I'm not 100% sure how effective these specific testers are, since I've heard conflicting info in the past, but I'm going to give it the benefit of doubt and assume it's accurate. I'd love to see a current run bel air tested to see if they actually dialed their heat treat in. edit: minor typo
Thank you very much. This is a very good test. Interesting that you tested the bel air below 60 hrc as kershaw says on their page that they harden it to 62-64 hrc
I think my example is flawed: the blade bent during the tree stab test, rather than snapping. This indicates a wider than typical plastic deformation zone - poor anneal is likely.
I think they made exactly the same as Hogue. They changed the hardness. Kershaw Belair was listed 60-62 HRC at the release (1st batches). Hogue Deka was also softer before and after they changed the HRC to 62-64.
optimize HRC for corrosion resistance on a crossbar lock knife like Deka or Bel air is usless... scales and hardware are failing before the blade as we can see from your tests. It makes more sence to optimize edge retention . Many thanks for your work on this channel.
@@armandkokotajlo2085 and to your point, i tested the more complex locks in the salt mist chamber. You are absolutely correct. I see no point in making a part of the system optimal for corrosion resistance while throwing in a mix of galvanically dissimilar metals.
Would you be also surprised if I told you that I have M. Strider with S20V blade testing sub 57 HRC? That’s the same steel as M390, ideal hardness for them is 61. We need to stop talking in generalities and stick to the cold hard facts!
@@CuttingBoardRx hardness alone cannot tell you performance. You can arrive at a specific hardness number multiple ways and achieve drastically different edges retention performance.
last two knives I picked up was, bradford 3.5 in cruwear and viper handy in magnacut. I was worried about the handy because of some other vids, not so much now. Looking at the vosteed psyop in elmax and something in vanax to add.
Yeah I don't even believe what is put out by the manufacturers or big box knife dealers anymore. I either test it myself or obtain the information from channels such as this one. I have a buddy that owns a fabrication shop and he has a big press style looking hardness guage. There's actually a guy from the vendor that comes twice a year and calibrates the thing, pretty cool. With that said I have taken the opportunity to test HRC on a few blades. To provide a comparison, one of the blades I tested was a Ritter/Hogue RSK in Magnacut, and its 3 test average was 62, just like your Deka. Im now convinced that Hogue is running a very precise and repeatable heat treat on their Magnacut. It just so happens that Hogue is one of the few companies that seems to actually be at advertised hardness, as they list almost all of their Magnacut at 61-63 HRC. As a side note, I will agree that S30V is a much better blade steel than people think. Truth be told it's still one of my favorite edc steels. Its not the best at anything but it's good at all of them, corrosion resistance, toughness, and edge retention. I actually tested a Spyderco Smock in S30V one time and Spyderco had the hardness at almost 62hrc, and I immediately understood why that knife seemed to perform so we'll.
🙏🏽 Thanks for this video loved it! I NEED YOUR ADVICE Please 👊🏽 I live in FL looking into my first “Good knife” cant decide between 1.Spyderco micarta Para 3 Cpm-Cruwear 2.Hogue Deka CPM magnacut I like them both but im kinda new to knives dont know how to sharpen just yet learning about steels and knives as i go . And besides those 2 any other knives u recommend me Under $150.00 🙏🏽 that will last me for ever I own both mini bug out and mini griptilian both in s30V just looking for something different
@@Senditjp247 This week, if you are ready to purchase, Spyderco Manix 2 Light Weight in CPM S110V is on sale for $156. With Para 3 or Deka you are not getting more capability than your mini bug. Manix 2 CrewCarta is on sale for $188, but it may be worth the extra 32 bucks. I don’t like pinch locks on Para’s and Deka is a Bugout with MagnaCut blade. S110V is going to require diamond plates for sharpening
thanks so much for this info !! Also wanted to look into another knife!!! Para 3 Sprint Run LW with (CPM 15V) ive heard that steel isn’t the best for corrosion resistant?? One more question also looking into the Kizer Drop bear Clutch lock (Elmax, S45VN, 20CV) any particular steel u would recommend for this knife thanks in advance 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
once again great video!!!! I will for sure be asking for HRC on every retailer video I watch if it's not stated! and I'm going to be purchasing a hogue mysto soon now!
HRC does matter don’t get me wrong, but people really are over hyping the value of this. The difference in 1-2 rc on most steels is negligible for everyday use. Larrin actually has a detailed video on this you guys should check it out. More important in my opinion is edge geometry. If you actually invest in learning how to do this you could make a subpar steel out perform a premium steel in edge retention testing. This being said hrc is still very important and I am glad there is finally someone out there holding companies accountable. Good work man!
The way knife infomercial-style salesmen spin Larrin’s statements is ridiculous. Sure, you can make a “sub par” steel perform better by changing the angle, but then, why would I pay for anything other than 420C? We demand all of it for what we pay or let the industry bend us over! Let’s flip it around: I would rather pay for a knife with sub-par edge made out of perfectly heat treated steel than the other way around. I can sharpen any knife better than it comes from a production factory, but I can’t easily re-heat treat a blade.
@@CuttingBoardRx this is so true! HRC really is so important but the “edc” community has bridged over into actual knife and steel enthusiasts and it’s exhausting reading comments under these videos.
I’m one of probably a bunch of lurkers and I really enjoy your videos. Thank you for taking the time to share with us your approach. I’ve been waiting to purchase a magnacut knife for a bit over a year now. I like the Deka and the Bel Air along with others. Between the two wharn style blades one broke and one bent. I keep coming back to which problem would I rather have in the field? Did you try the Deka clip point in the tree of doom?
Dude. Thank you. Really really good stuff and great information. It’s too easy to be given information and then corroborate it and not have it authoritatively challenged or criticized/qualified. I DO remember S30V catching a bad rap. And I still shake my head at that every single time I try to freehand sharpen it lol. I think a lot of the Italian rep comes from the treatment of M390, and I can add some anecdotal experience of really soft stuff from MKM and Viper there-but the designs were so good that I almost didn’t feel angry… almost. Finally, at this day and age: THIS is really what I want the bulk of my knife content to look like. I appreciate the rapid fire “window shopping” approach of a lot of other channels, but I really want to see what’s under the hood sometimes. This video alone set me straight in a couple of blades I’ve already passed on-and now wish I hadn’t. It’s funny how money muddies waters, when people want to spend when they can understand. I’m with you on our responsibility to make demands as consumers and shape the market to provide what we want. I’ll quit rambling now. Well done sir. Thanks again. Glad the algorithm threw this at me!
Thanks for your thoughtful comment! Knifecenter published a new releases video today which includes the long awaited Benchmade Bushcrafter in CruWear. Not a peep about hardness… I think we should all pay them a visit, I did already!
HRC testing conducted by Transparent Knives on Spyderco MagnaCut has produced a range between 62.4 and 63.5. Unsure as to why your procedure generated a value so far below what one would expect following an examination of the above datapoints. One of the three blades within TK’s test pool, notably, was taken from a Manix 2. Likely worth considering the discrepancy.
I don’t recommend using anything you read on social media as a guideline to how you spend your money. Regarding the Manix 2 Salt specifically, unless you are actively using a knife on water, day in day out, I would recommend buying a version geared towards your specific use. This is a water knife and certain properties were sacrificed in order to make it as CR as possible.
@@beejaibakchoyThere exists a spreadsheet containing HRC data he’s gathered. Additionally, I believe him to have taken photos of the results generated via his testing on two community-supplied Salt series blades. As CBRx states above, treating online sentiment as purchasing gospel isn’t recommended. One may gather useful information via web sources, but arriving at a decision absent consideration of one’s use case is likely to produce in oneself some dissatisfaction with any resulting purchases. In working humid environments over lengthy stretches of time, for example, I highly value the balanced properties yielded by Spyderco’s MagnaCut treatment protocols. Were I to instead work the winter shift at a decently-kitted Midwest warehouse, Spyderco’s coated M4 may prove preferable. Apply relevant data to your unique use case, and you shouldn’t easily arrive at a poorly chosen tool. Wishing you luck!
Another great video. I have linked two of them in my blog on my article about the Nano. I just really enjoyed your pragmatic approach and very informative results. Also your italian accent is just great (in the other video !) :-)
I was looking at work sharp pro videos and found your channel, just want to congratulate you for your effort and quality, keep the good job. In the past I was researching for a HRC tester to double check the manufacturer specs with independent and the Leeb testers were described as non-reliable for knives, due to minimal mass and thickness requirements, it is really good to see them in practice doubt anyone cares about only ±0.3 HRC deviation. Maybe you can make a separate more in-depth video for the tester.
I tend to avoid "do it all products" or "all in one products." Magna cut is trying to be a combo TV, CD, and DVD player all in one. Jack of all, master of none. So many better steels. Sheeple love to ride the bandwagon because it's so trendy. In my opinion a couple drops of oil goes a long way, so I tend to like edge retention and toughness over any corrosion resistance. Pick two qualities and work around the 3rd of your choice. If you love to sharpen knives then pick something with corrosion resistance and toughness. Elementary dear Watson! Thank your for calling this out! Hopefully this will raise some brows. GREAT CHANNEL!!
You know how the full saying goes, right? Jack of all trades master of none, though oftentimes better than master of one. You want great edge retention - MagnaCut is not your steel, but if you’re looking for a very well balanced steel - MagnaCut is it. Good thing is that we have a lot of options nowadays.
@dertodesking8379 My transparent knives demko ad20.5 reblades @65 and 65.1 rc, respectively, have absolutely phenomenal edge retention. It is also still tougher and more stainless than the vast majority of other steels. On top of that they are absolute laser beams as the edges are very thin. I love high rc magnacut. It truly is a great steel. I consider anything above 63 to be worthwhile. You are correct, though. Magnacut is a fantastic all-around steel.
I Understand they want to go ultra corrosion resistance for the Manix2 so turning down the HRC on Magnacut makes sense but still seems low for most folks like me.
Hardness rating can determine, especially for what your going to use the knife for, if the metal you chose is viable! Yes edge geometry is also a factor , but they have to show hardness too… if I want a super tough survival knife … I want AUS 8 or 3v at about 57.5 - 59 HRC. If I want a super cutting edge and edge retention, I want s90v or k390 at about 61-63 HRC. If I want an all around performance knife I want Magnacut or 14c28n at 61-62 HRC. It’s common sense to have a HRC scale on each knife!
My god you do really beat your knives for us thank you love all your video's you have saved me lots of money . Any chance you will do any reviews on Guardian Tactical they use to work for Microtech. I hear their knives are really good.
Microtech is not my favorite brand for now and until they come clean with the MSI fiasco and the clandestine fix they implemented. After that, I’ll love them again. Pardon my silly activism!
Awesome video and information!! If these results are accurate, I find it somewhat disappointing the biggest names in the community aren't hitting the hrc to at least the recommended zone. I read on blade forum Dr. Thomas said Magnacut is best at 61-62.5 for best all-around performance. Ive heard other knife guys claim 63-64 is preferred. I'm no expert to argue if this is a concern, but it does make me question. I know alot more than just hardness is a factor as well. I own 3 spyderco MC and one Quiet Carry and I've had no issues. But only light use. Great video thanks!
Not everything Dr. Thomas published is 100% clear. The best corrosion resistance is achieved at HT regimes that can’t possibly yield 61-62.5 HRC. It’s in his article, but one needs a ton of patience to connect the dots.
Possible Idea- There are Leatherman replacement knife blades on AliExpress made from M390. I wonder how these compare to other M390 blades made in the USA. Is one of these worth buying ($69.00) to replace a 420hc main blade on the Wave+?
@@Sgreubel The advantage of powder steel M390 over ingot 420C is better edge retention and corrosion resistance. But a properly maintained 420C is a decent performer for a beater tool. The way Leathermans are constructed, the corrosion is more likely to occur on the file, inside the handles, or on the pliers. I don’t think this is a good swap bc for $69 one can find a whole decent knife. Mini Iridium is first that comes to mind. If you’re tough on tools, I swear by cold steel Finn Wolf or Karve (indestructible).
Awesome keep it up! Im curious about the Spyderco Paramilitary 2 salt, I find its edge retention excellent so I would assume it had an HRC of 62 or above
Interesting that there was such a difference between the Deka and Mysto. Though the Mysto is the more premium offering so I guess it kind of makes sense.
It could simply be a matter of Hogue tweaking their heat treat over time. The Magnacut Dekas have been out for 2+ years now. It would be interesting to see if the latest production are running Mysto HRC numbers.
I can tell you, CRK MagnaCut heat treat is disappointing. Below 62. Still love the brand, but I specifically sought out couple of S45VN knives before they completely disappeared. That was their forte.
В очередной раз, спасибо за интересное и информативное видео! Ваш канал это, пожалуй, лучшее, что есть на ножевую тему на ютубе на данный момент. Даже интереснее хард юзов от вининула пожалуй)
Can you test as well the Ganzo 729 Spyderco PM2 clone? They say it has an HRC of 58 but some have had doubts about that claim. Those knives are made in 440C stainless steel. Would be interested if the Ganzos really are hardened to their claim.
@@yeetee2781 it’s pretty much means the blade will get dull much quicker than if it was made from the same steel but was heat treated to a higher hardness. There are nuances to that rule of thumb, but in principle that’s what it means.
I really want to see you test corrosion and hardness in all components of the knife for spyderco PM2 salt in magnacut. I also really really want you to test corrosion for quiet carry knives since they are claimed to be completely rust proof and also use rust proof hardware (one of the first companies to do that). Awesome videos!
I took a look at your channel, great that you’re doing some rough tests! I have a tip: shorts get you more views but they don’t help you get to monetizing your channel. You need 500 subs and 3000 public view hours of the long form videos. I had to do 1000 and 4000 they must’ve made it easier because folks were giving up, getting those 4000 hours took forever!
Thanks for the good work. I had a feeling spyderco kept the HRC low for the salt series. I’m okay with it for those particular knives. The bel air should’ve been at least 62+ tho
There are rumors that they did on the latest knives. I don’t like the overall design, just an opinion of a crusty old guy, but there’s way too many parts!
Dude. Thank you. Really really good stuff and great information. It’s too easy to be given information and then corroborate it and not have it authoritatively challenged or criticized/qualified. I DO remember S30V catching a bad rap. And I still shake my head at that every single time I try to freehand sharpen it lol.
I've heard some rumblings about the Ritter Hogues having super low hardness on their magnacut blades. I believe they quote 61-63HRC but multiple sources now tested hardness and were getting anywhere from 56-58HRC. I wish they would have just stuck with m390 & 20cv. I've beat the hell out of both my mini & full size Ritters in 20cv and have yet to have any chipping and they stay super sharp for a very long time.... I have two magnacut Ritters that have become safe queens until I can get them tested.
@@m523t Sorry to disappoint, but rope testing is Ada & Cedric department 😀 And by his own admission, kinda, it is the cutting board that is contributing to dulling the blade. His is still a valid test, but without using the same exact board, I would not be able to deliver a reliable comparison to his test. The link to his channel is in my subscriptions btw.
Concerning your HRC tester, I am no expert, at all, but I once investigated it out of curiosity, in search for a cheaper alternative to regulars testers. I recall reading something about it needing a relatively large piece of steel to test acurately, and I must say that I'm surprised it works well on pocket knives, only maintained by the pressure of your fingers. The event that hyped MC a lot was when Cedric and Ada tested this dual grit mule that did so well. Had he cut 500 bits of the rope, the story would have been different. Dr Thomas rated MC at 7 for toughness and 5.5 for abrasion resistance. Nothing incredible, but where it excels is that it can be hardened to the level of a similarly carbide rich tool steel, because the chromium is kept in solution. Around 60 I think it misses the point.
I’m fairly confident in the tester as we use this exact model to test components on USMC armored vehicles. As long as the tested item is flat where it contacts the 2kg block of steel, I’m pretty confident it’s giving better results than a single strike on an industrial tester.
@@CuttingBoardRx Yes, it seems quite accurate as I am seeing on your channel. It is good news for the knife world because these thing are not that expansive and maybe others will start to do it too. Yes, manufacturers ought to disclose hrc range within a 2 points margin and really warranty it ! Right now, I'd like to test some 4V., Kizer has good prices on it but I fear it will be low.
@@CuttingBoardRx no but at least 1 was tested when they were released and it was under 60. Under 60 there’s really zero benefit or reason to get Magnacut over most other steels and Larrin Thomas says that explicitly on more than a couple of his videos. At under 60 it’s a waste and a ripoff. He recommends 62-65.
@@The_RC_Guru What Dr. Thomas, doesn’t say in videos but does in his MagnaCut article on KnifeSteelNerds is that at above 62 HRC it is only as corrosion resistant as S20V
@@CuttingBoardRx I’m disgusted that the one Leatherman Magnacut blade was under 60 because I spent my hard earned money on it. But I don’t have a hardness tester to verify the only 1 tested sample I’ve found on UA-cam. That’s the only reason I brought it up to you. Most knife UA-cam channels pretty much praise every blade so they keep their free inventory rolling in and that keeps their view count/monetezation up. You I’ve been able to trust not suckling on their teets.
Not saying you're wrong, but I do think it's weird (or shocking) that both Spyderco and Kershaw claim 63-64 but they're testing significantly lower. I could see a point either way but potentially 4-5 points is enormous in a hardness scale. I've seen video of Kershaw testing Livewire blades and nailing 63. Spyderco also said they were late to bringing this steel to market because they went back and completely revamped their heat treat to optimize it. Anyway, having taken apart a lot of knives I know this video took a lot of work so great job.
The salt series from Spyderco is kept slightly lower in HRC to aid in corrosion resistance. Magnacut does better with corrosion a couple marks down on HRC
@@Stafo85I don't see how that's the case. Higher tempering reduces chrome in solution - but makes it softer. Higher austenite temp dissolves the carbides including all the chrome carbide to put it into solution, which with cryo (nessesary) puts more chrome in solution and increases hardness. MagnaCut should dissolve all chrome at even lower standard heat treatment temps though for room temp quenching. High temperature tempering to get higher HRC without cryo does reduce the toughness and also the corrosion resistance, quite a lot, and it's not listed on Larrin's heat treat protocol suggestions at all.
Why don’t they heat the magnacut to 62-63 HRC? It’s known that magnacut is at is best at 62-63 HRC right? Can you explain it please. I have a Tactile Chupacabra that is 62-63 HRC but I didn’t know that the manix 2 salt is around 60 HRC. I own a the manix 2 salt too and I must say it sharpens real easy with water stones.
Magnacut is at its best for WHAT at that HRC? Because it's not at its best corrosion resistance, that's at a lower HRC. It's not at its best toughness, BUT in almost all situations the difference in toughness between 62-63 and 59-60 is one of those differences that makes no difference in the real EDC pocket knife usage world. And it's definitely not at its best for production costs. Higher HRC means higher grinding costs. That, and a certain amount of cautiousness on the part of most of the manufacturers means they are playing it conservative initially. Higher HRC means more risk of chipping or even breaking, something this brand spankin' new steel doesn't need. Sadly, even for the new King of the Balanced Knife Steels, there are STILL different tradeoffs in play. There are still steels that are tougher, that are more corrosion resistant, that have better edge retention, etc. There just aren't any other steels out there now that bring a better BALANCE of those factors for most uses. MOST uses. As an extreme example, I don't see Condor making truckloads of machetes for the Brazilian sugar plantation market out of Magnacut, not only because the cost would be prohibitive, but also because what the cane harvesters need isn't really what Magnacut delivers. Likewise Council Tool isn't rushing new Magnacut axes into production. I'm waiting, almost on pins and needles now, for Spyderco to FINALLY release the Bumblebee PM2 Salts. I like the Caribbean, but I like both Magnacut more than LC200N and the PM2 in the hand more than the Caribbean. I would have gotten a Manix 2 Salt, except I just can't warm up to the Manix's lock, which is weird because I love me the Axis/Able/crossbar locks. It's good to hear that your Manix is well behaved on the stones.
Somehow, I missed out completely on the existence of the Chupacabra. How do you like it? It looks to me like the Sharklock FROM THE USERS perspective, and I'm a fan of the Sharklock, but Demko has managed to miss by straddling my preferred knife size with the AD20 and AD20.5.
I would highly recommend CPM-3V steel and rubberized handle. Budget option is Cold Steel Master Hunter, then Benchmade Pukko or Leuko, Boker Bronco 3.5” or 4.45” I’m not really a hunter but just about everyone around me are… they all start with budget Buck or Schrade sets, which have been used, abused, and resharpened for generations. Just saying. I don’t think MagnaCut will give you a noticeable jump in performance. CPM 3V is incredibly tough, chip resistant, wear resistant. Almost forgot! If you’re going to mount the head yourself, for fine work check out Hogue Extrak. I think between Cold Steel and it you’re right at $300 and got 2 great knives!
Excellent job as always man. I appreciate the attention to detail you put in your vids. I have a magnacut Ad20s clip point coming in soon, would you want to do an hrc test on it? I'm local in Arlington/Alexandria
A question regarding methodology. Generally speaking don't knife makers primarily harden the edge, not the tang or the back of the knife? i.e. I'm wondering if you aren't measuring hardness at the most useful location.
@@CuttingBoardRx I haven't seen the manufacturing process for all these blades. My assumption is they'd be handled via the tang when put in the oven and also when quenched, which would result in a bit of differential hardening around the tang. So my supposition is mostly biased by how I often seen these heat treatments created. Perhaps these blades are all done in a machine uniformly, I don't know.
@@ryanbudney3356 there are two ways to ht stainless: atmospheric furnace or individually wrapped. In the furnace everything is heated to the same temperature with some deviation between the center and the walls of a furnace. Individually wrapped method is used by custom makers and will be unlikely to encounter in a production knife. Either way, the hardness will not vary. There are other steel types that can take differential heat treat (high speed tool alloys) or work hardening (H-series) but not stainless high alloys, or at least I haven’t heard of this.
@@CuttingBoardRx I suppose a simple test would be to compare harness near the edge with hardness at the tang. Maybe with one of the poorer performers, as measured at the tang.
Ok so here is my thoughts on your next vid. What is your fav pocket knives. Because I know you will take all the factors into consideration: locking mech, pivot how constructed AND the edge holding ability etc
@@Messercheck There are several on the market. I choose not to promote any specific one. You have to make sure that it covers the HRC scale and includes the calibration block. Once you get one, I could walk you through the setup. I noticed you are not a subscriber on my channel. What can I do to earn your subscription?
Hopefully, the amount of research and tedious calculations, editing and removing coatings from brand new blades was worth your time! Enjoy!!!
Thank you sir, you're fighting for the everyday guys everywhere
I must admit I really respect your sacrifice to find the truth. It's not easy to do the stuff your doing.
Well let's say it's not easy to go against the narrative. People like to defend their illusions.
You know years ago Puma made a lockback that came Rockwell tested.
That was more then 30 years ago. Shame they don't have those standards nowadays.
Many don't understand how big a difference two points can be. Some can vary 56-60 that's a huge difference in performance.
It was was absolutely worth it. Most useful Magnacut related video out there, with real actual production knives, those we can get in real life. It is very very disappointing ! Especially for spyderco, I believed they did it at 64. Maybe it was the mule and they changed it for the salt series ?
It is a shame really. I don't want a knife in Magnacut anymore and I will stick to my Native 5 LC200n for my very rare saltwater activity.
@@richardhenry1969German Puma knives still all have Rockwell hardness dents from testing
@@MB-jg4tr that good to know haven't seen any in years. We used to go to a knife store in the mall. Where I live all the malls closed.
You, sir, are doing the lord's work!
I bet some of the manufacturers would think I’m on the other side…
The lords work 😂 How did you manage to come up with such a comment? 🤦♂️
@AR9ify not all angels have wings, you know.
I can’t tell you how important I think this content is. You are fair and as scientific as possible with your equipment. This can only benefit the end user. Kudos on showcasing actual numbers. Hey Kershaw, pay attention!
That is exactly why we need this channel to grow the subscription base. Companies won’t even notice us until we’re 30K strong!
MagnaCut is a fascinating steel. It and CruWear are really all you need for edc folders anymore.
MagnaCut is basically stainless cru-wear. Though, (Cpm)Cru-Wear is a little tougher, but not as tough as 3V. Between 4V and 4V.
Thank you for your videos. The time and effort you put in is unmatched.
Thanks! Keep spreading the word!
It's a shame that the Manufacturers are doing an injustice to MagnaCut by not hardening it to its optimum hardness. I could care less about corrosion resistance, I take care of my knives. I do,however, care about edge retention.
Thank You so much for thus Video! Outstanding Job, and excellent content!!
Its kinda selling us only steel name not performances. Happened to me with bento box para 2 i k390. I was curious and sent my knife to a local knifemaker. I was disappointed because i saw on some forums that was hardened to 64, mine was tested in 2 different places on blade and turned out 62.5hrc
@user-zx5yd4cf3y My friend (from Bulgaria?) do not be disappointed in your knife! K390 ideal hardness for edge retention vs. toughness is 62.8 and BTW the tester that your machine shop used is likely to have +/- 0.25 error. If they took it all the way up to 64, the result would be 40% reduction in toughness with only 5% increase in edge retention! Is it a good trade? Hopefully you kept the knife? Since Roman times, Forums are literally places for people to come to be heard, no matter how stupid they sound!
@@CuttingBoardRx The thing is that i saw on knifeforums Big Brown Bear posted his testings of k390 para2 and shown 63-64.5hrc. To be honest that attracted me so i activated my family from Florida to order knife and send me here because bento box doesnt ship to my country (im from Serbia). Sorry for broken English
@user-zx5yd4cf3y your English is perfectly fine! I’m Ukrainian btw. Do you sharpen your knives yourself? If yes, just reduce the angle by 1-2 degrees and it will eliminate any concerns about edge retention reduction!
@@CuttingBoardRx Yes bro i sharp all my knives by myself with very limited equipment (dmt coarse/fine/extra fine and strop with gunny juice 1 micron). I know resin bonded dimonds are better but they are too expsnive for me. Slava Ukraini!
Incredibly impressed with your work. In addition, the way you presented it... 👌
Sincerely appreciate your compliment!
Great video. Thanks for putting in the effort and the sacrifice of the blade coating😮
I've been experimenting with a similar Leeb hardness tester. I think it's a worthwhile tester, although I need to send some blades out for testing on a calibrated, professional Rockwell tester to get a real read on accuracy. As I'm sure you know, the Leeb testers aren't really intended for this sort of thing. They're intended to be used on thicker/heavier materials, particularly with the Type D impact device you're using. Specifically, they're spec'd to be used on materials weighing at least 5 kg and with a minimum thickness of 5mm. The caveat is that they can be used on lighter, thinner materials if "coupled tightly" to a heavier piece of metal, like the calibration block.
After some research, it appears that what they mean by "coupled tightly" is adhering the object (blade) to the block with Vaseline or some kind of grease to fill any gaps. I started getting better results when I started using grease between the block and the tang, although it looks like you're getting pretty good results without that addition. It would be interesting to see if your results come up a little using Vaseline or grease. Final note: even under ideal circumstances, these devices are rated to be accurate to +/- 0.5 hrc. I'm hesitant to publish bad results because I dont' entirely trust the Leeb tester for this kind of work. A low score can be the result of a lack of flatness rather than a lack of hardness. This is why I want confirmation from a traditional hrc tester.
I've tested four Magnacut blades so far. As in your testing, Hogue (RSK in my case) did very well at 63.4, with the best being an American Blade Works Model 2, at 64 hrc on the money.
Thanks for the great comment! FYI: I consulted with a lab that uses this exact unit on US Navy ships and USMC vehicles to test mounted components that cannot be brought to an industrial tester. It’s definitely capricious but with some practice, I am getting consistent results.
Industrial testers are calibrated within .25 HRC and zero shift of .25 is also allowed. So I’m content wit my accuracy. I do agree with your point about flatness, actually convexity and concavity are more frequent deviations, and that’s why I strike the blade in several places - to find the flattest surface. I then film the test for the video in that area. I also refused to recommend the tester to some of the viewers that asked me about it- it takes a no BS professional to run it and the blade ends up being puck-marked by up to 25-30 dimples.
I would not recommend using lubricants around the probe for fear of contaminating the cartridge.
My fear is that cantilevering the blade even in the slightest manner provides a cushioning effect.
I agree that grease runs the risk of doing the same.
I wonder if a jig that has two small screw clamps could remove the variability and truly sync it to the test block.
A huge thanks to the work you are doing!
@@CuttingBoardRx The lubricant actually goes between the test block and the tang of the blade, so the probe doesn't come in contact with it. It's used to form a tighter connection between the blade and the block.
@@BladeLabMiami clearly you don’t know how messy I can be! My nick name in the machine shop was butter fingers. Also “the edge finder” can you guess why?
@@CuttingBoardRx 😂
Now just imagine how sub-optimal all the other steels these production companies push out.
Correct! And I don’t have to imagine, I can measure and film and then post.
@@CuttingBoardRxI’ll be here to see that
BEST KNIFE STEEL VIDEO EVER. I dont trust that so many companies suddenly threw in MC so quickly... i knew many were sub optional
Hey friend!! After your feedback!! I went ahead and got the Manix lw yellow 2 cpm magnacut for around 165 over the para 3 and hogue deka!! Since I already have a mini bugout and a mini griptilian i thought the bigger blade was a better decicion!! I almost bought the Cru-carta version but saved a little money
Thanks again for your feedback
Great choice! Thanks for commenting!
I'm guilty of spreading rumors of soft Italian heat treats. It was based on information from years back and I'm very happy things have changed. Definitely looking at some of the Viper and Lionsteel models more seriously now as I love their designs. Thanks for the video.
They still have the poorest performing m390 around. That has not changed.
Viper Customer Service is nonexistent. Just a warning
Absolutely right about needing to know the blade HRCs. Thank you.
Turns out American made production knives had a soft heat treat. So much for made in the USA. Now I'm glad that i ordered the Lionsteel M4 in Magnacut instead of the Manix 2 Salt.
@just9911 🇺🇸
Why do they run them soft? Easier to treat or less chance they will break?
@@kpfagerberg Both! Plus the third reason: easier to grind post-heat treat.
@@CuttingBoardRxI forgot about that part. Just ordered a manix salt in magnacut. Should perform well for my needs.
@@kpfagerberg Manix is my favorite Spyderco line. It’s my little secret, pls don’t tell anyone 😂
Thank you so much for all you do. I know so many companies must hate you.
Ha! That’s why I need everyone to help me grow this channel!
Also, I have 2 reblades done by Gersh Blades for some PM2's I own in Magnacut, both are done between 63-64 HRC.
@@adbramsayhey !! I know that guy 😊
@@GerstBladeworks yeah, this guy does some pretty amazing work!
I look forward to your new videos all the time! Top shelf stuff!👍💪
Appreciate your generosity and continuing support! Lmk if there’s anything in particular you’d like to see on the channel.
Well,I’m really curious about Bestech Swordfish in Magnacut…
Interesting to see the HRC of the Italian made knives, the numbers don’t lie!
Thanks. Great video. Very informative pretty new to the knife world and really enjoyed this video
@@WvMnts Thanks for subscribing!
Great Video!
@@alexandermcalpine Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for subscribing!
I knew Spyderco's CPM-S30V and CPM-CRUWEAR were awesome Steels! These are the Steels that I have in my Manix 2XL and Military 2 Folders that I absolutely luv. I knew those were good Steels! Thank you for proving this to me! Great Video! Keep up the good Work you're doing! :-) Peace, Stiletto :-)
In addition to advertised HRC, I’d love a standardized behind edge thickness measurement listed. Since geometry is so critical, but we don’t know how to expect cutting performance until we get it in hand.
From what I was told Protech worked with Larrin Thomas on getting the heat treat right. It shows
Hopefully that’s why he was visiting Buck - to bring them to an epiphany: 420C is an antique and even S35VN is so 2010!
It’s amazing how things have progressed. I took a break from knife collecting for what turned into the better part of a decade and when I got back, s35vn was considered mid tier. I collected striders specifically because of Micks work with Paul Bos on heat treat. If you know he revolutionized heat treat and actually sold his business to Buck. still have a few older bg42, pd1 and ats-34 blades from the early 2000’s. I’m considering unsubscribing from all other channels and just keeping yours. It’s the only channel actual giving is the important data not just how knife looks and feels.
@@floridaman727 hahaha 😂 don’t unsubscribe from other channels, just leave comments about my content on their feeds. After a while they will mute you themselves! But so what? if we convince even 10-15 youngsters to think critically, we’ve done our job!
@@CuttingBoardRxI’d love to see this test done on Hinderer, Demko, Strider, CRK magnacut and see who is doing it right.
Your knowledge is exceptional. How about a video of your top 5 high end grail knives? Would love to see.
Thank you! I could do that! But the Shirogorov fan boys may not like that it’s not one of them…
About dealers listing HRC, you can look up the same knife at four different vendors and get four different ranges listed, at that point it's no longer worth a damn, I rather get information like that from channels such as yours.
That’s why you go to the source
But even then, you only get a range
Though personally, I Think that if you buy a knife that costs over 200$ for Chinese knives, and over 300$ for American knives, the manufacturer should test the blades before shipping, and have it written on a note in the packaging
@@bornonthebattlefront4883 Ye, and the manufacturer range is also somewhat hit or miss, depending on how often they actually test their batches after the initial run.
Glad to see an example of Kershaw Magnacut here. I nabbed a Link for like 80 bucks a month ago and was curious how it stood up against others.
Kershaw’s been upping their game! Livewire rocks! BelAir was not a well Balanced system- to many parts, WITH geometry THAT thin, HRC should be higher.
@@CuttingBoardRxthe interesting thing is that they state now on their website that they harden the bel air to 62-64 hrc. I don’t know if they changed their goal since you bought yours or if they are totally off their goal and ship blades that are way softer than what they aim for and claim.
Yea they are all liars...whatever
@@Superbus753 They changed the hrc they aimed for. When bel air first came out, if I'm not misremembering, it was a 60-62 aim. As stated in the video, the bel air tested was an early run, so it's likely that they had an even poorer heat treat at that time, which would explain why it came in just under 60. I'm not 100% sure how effective these specific testers are, since I've heard conflicting info in the past, but I'm going to give it the benefit of doubt and assume it's accurate. I'd love to see a current run bel air tested to see if they actually dialed their heat treat in.
edit: minor typo
Thank you very much for your efforts to help us all with your tests! ❤
@@amitzdullnicker2k Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for subscribing!
Thank you very much. This is a very good test. Interesting that you tested the bel air below 60 hrc as kershaw says on their page that they harden it to 62-64 hrc
I think my example is flawed: the blade bent during the tree stab test, rather than snapping. This indicates a wider than typical plastic deformation zone - poor anneal is likely.
I think they made exactly the same as Hogue. They changed the hardness. Kershaw Belair was listed 60-62 HRC at the release (1st batches). Hogue Deka was also softer before and after they changed the HRC to 62-64.
@@armandkokotajlo2085 I can check this theory- I have the very earliest Deka tanto MC blade, will check it out later.
optimize HRC for corrosion resistance on a crossbar lock knife like Deka or Bel air is usless... scales and hardware are failing before the blade as we can see from your tests. It makes more sence to optimize edge retention . Many thanks for your work on this channel.
@@armandkokotajlo2085 and to your point, i tested the more complex locks in the salt mist chamber. You are absolutely correct. I see no point in making a part of the system optimal for corrosion resistance while throwing in a mix of galvanically dissimilar metals.
Great tests! Maybe, you should startup your own sales platform to sell knives that you've tested. Love the vid!
Haha!!! That would be a very small retail outlet: Manix, Griptilian, Livewire, and LUDT would be my entire inventory!
@@CuttingBoardRx They all started somewhere brother.
Really surprised how well the Lionsteel did. Thank you for all your work.
They still ht other steels poorly as the performance is low
@@tacticalcenter8658 That's why I was so surprised
Would you be also surprised if I told you that I have M. Strider with S20V blade testing sub 57 HRC? That’s the same steel as M390, ideal hardness for them is 61. We need to stop talking in generalities and stick to the cold hard facts!
@@CuttingBoardRx hardness alone cannot tell you performance. You can arrive at a specific hardness number multiple ways and achieve drastically different edges retention performance.
@@tacticalcenter8658 yeah. You still don’t know what Retained Austenite is. 20 seconds, go
last two knives I picked up was, bradford 3.5 in cruwear and viper handy in magnacut. I was worried about the handy because of some other vids, not so much now. Looking at the vosteed psyop in elmax and something in vanax to add.
This is awesome man! Just found this channel. Cant wait to see what hrc testing you got coming up
Spyderco Magnacut hardening for corrosion resistance?it means edge retention is not so good?
MagnaCut is a very well-rounded steel, not specifically designed for maximum edge retention.
@ but Ontario rat 1.5 hrc 63-64,spyderco 60. Its means Ontario is much better in egde retention than spyderco,but spyderco is better for corrosion?
Everything about MagnaCut is in the article by its inventor Dr. Larrin Thomas
knifesteelnerds.com/2021/03/25/cpm-magnacut/
Yeah I don't even believe what is put out by the manufacturers or big box knife dealers anymore. I either test it myself or obtain the information from channels such as this one. I have a buddy that owns a fabrication shop and he has a big press style looking hardness guage. There's actually a guy from the vendor that comes twice a year and calibrates the thing, pretty cool. With that said I have taken the opportunity to test HRC on a few blades. To provide a comparison, one of the blades I tested was a Ritter/Hogue RSK in Magnacut, and its 3 test average was 62, just like your Deka. Im now convinced that Hogue is running a very precise and repeatable heat treat on their Magnacut. It just so happens that Hogue is one of the few companies that seems to actually be at advertised hardness, as they list almost all of their Magnacut at 61-63 HRC. As a side note, I will agree that S30V is a much better blade steel than people think. Truth be told it's still one of my favorite edc steels. Its not the best at anything but it's good at all of them, corrosion resistance, toughness, and edge retention. I actually tested a Spyderco Smock in S30V one time and Spyderco had the hardness at almost 62hrc, and I immediately understood why that knife seemed to perform so we'll.
🙏🏽 Thanks for this video loved it! I NEED YOUR ADVICE Please 👊🏽
I live in FL looking into my first “Good knife” cant decide between
1.Spyderco micarta Para 3 Cpm-Cruwear
2.Hogue Deka CPM magnacut
I like them both but im kinda new to knives dont know how to sharpen just yet learning about steels and knives as i go .
And besides those 2 any other knives u recommend me Under $150.00 🙏🏽 that will last me for ever
I own both mini bug out and mini griptilian both in s30V just looking for something different
@@Senditjp247 This week, if you are ready to purchase, Spyderco Manix 2 Light Weight in CPM S110V is on sale for $156. With Para 3 or Deka you are not getting more capability than your mini bug.
Manix 2 CrewCarta is on sale for $188, but it may be worth the extra 32 bucks. I don’t like pinch locks on Para’s and Deka is a Bugout with MagnaCut blade. S110V is going to require diamond plates for sharpening
thanks so much for this info !! Also wanted to look into another knife!!!
Para 3 Sprint Run LW with (CPM 15V) ive heard that steel isn’t the best for corrosion resistant??
One more question also looking into the Kizer Drop bear Clutch lock
(Elmax, S45VN, 20CV) any particular steel u would recommend for this knife thanks in advance 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
once again great video!!!! I will for sure be asking for HRC on every retailer video I watch if it's not stated! and I'm going to be purchasing a hogue mysto soon now!
I see they are out of them on a couple of retail sites. The tanto’s are still available
Thank you,what are the 3 knives
Thanks for the detailed video - you are the man!
Glad to help!
3:20 BM 710
3:58 Kershaw Belair
4:29 Spyderco Manix 2 Salt
5:05 BM Mini Adira
8:56 Hogue Deka
9:33 Viper Vale
11:23 Pro-Tech Strider
12:21 Lionsteel Nano
13:43 Hogue Mysto
HRC does matter don’t get me wrong, but people really are over hyping the value of this. The difference in 1-2 rc on most steels is negligible for everyday use. Larrin actually has a detailed video on this you guys should check it out. More important in my opinion is edge geometry. If you actually invest in learning how to do this you could make a subpar steel out perform a premium steel in edge retention testing. This being said hrc is still very important and I am glad there is finally someone out there holding companies accountable. Good work man!
The way knife infomercial-style salesmen spin Larrin’s statements is ridiculous. Sure, you can make a “sub par” steel perform better by changing the angle, but then, why would I pay for anything other than 420C? We demand all of it for what we pay or let the industry bend us over!
Let’s flip it around: I would rather pay for a knife with sub-par edge made out of perfectly heat treated steel than the other way around. I can sharpen any knife better than it comes from a production factory, but I can’t easily re-heat treat a blade.
@@CuttingBoardRx this is so true! HRC really is so important but the “edc” community has bridged over into actual knife and steel enthusiasts and it’s exhausting reading comments under these videos.
@@christopherr1711 that’s why I’m happy to have critical thinkers like yourself among my subscribers!
I’m one of probably a bunch of lurkers and I really enjoy your videos. Thank you for taking the time to share with us your approach. I’ve been waiting to purchase a magnacut knife for a bit over a year now. I like the Deka and the Bel Air along with others. Between the two wharn style blades one broke and one bent. I keep coming back to which problem would I rather have in the field? Did you try the Deka clip point in the tree of doom?
Here’s the answer:
Hogue Deka Magnacut: Clip Point vs. Reverse Tanto Extreme Abuse
ua-cam.com/video/W0vHK57c2uQ/v-deo.html
@@CuttingBoardRx thank you and I can’t believe I missed this! I thought I scoured all your videos, but I guess I missed it in the binge.
@@alanstevens6750 algorithm decided that you didn’t need to see that one 😆
Love your knife collection.
Dude. Thank you. Really really good stuff and great information. It’s too easy to be given information and then corroborate it and not have it authoritatively challenged or criticized/qualified.
I DO remember S30V catching a bad rap. And I still shake my head at that every single time I try to freehand sharpen it lol.
I think a lot of the Italian rep comes from the treatment of M390, and I can add some anecdotal experience of really soft stuff from MKM and Viper there-but the designs were so good that I almost didn’t feel angry… almost.
Finally, at this day and age: THIS is really what I want the bulk of my knife content to look like. I appreciate the rapid fire “window shopping” approach of a lot of other channels, but I really want to see what’s under the hood sometimes. This video alone set me straight in a couple of blades I’ve already passed on-and now wish I hadn’t. It’s funny how money muddies waters, when people want to spend when they can understand. I’m with you on our responsibility to make demands as consumers and shape the market to provide what we want. I’ll quit rambling now. Well done sir. Thanks again. Glad the algorithm threw this at me!
Thanks for your thoughtful comment! Knifecenter published a new releases video today which includes the long awaited Benchmade Bushcrafter in CruWear. Not a peep about hardness… I think we should all pay them a visit, I did already!
HRC testing conducted by Transparent Knives on Spyderco MagnaCut has produced a range between 62.4 and 63.5. Unsure as to why your procedure generated a value so far below what one would expect following an examination of the above datapoints. One of the three blades within TK’s test pool, notably, was taken from a Manix 2. Likely worth considering the discrepancy.
Is there a link or video of this? I would like to see what knives he tested before I make the plunge.
I don’t recommend using anything you read on social media as a guideline to how you spend your money. Regarding the Manix 2 Salt specifically, unless you are actively using a knife on water, day in day out, I would recommend buying a version geared towards your specific use. This is a water knife and certain properties were sacrificed in order to make it as CR as possible.
@@beejaibakchoyThere exists a spreadsheet containing HRC data he’s gathered. Additionally, I believe him to have taken photos of the results generated via his testing on two community-supplied Salt series blades.
As CBRx states above, treating online sentiment as purchasing gospel isn’t recommended. One may gather useful information via web sources, but arriving at a decision absent consideration of one’s use case is likely to produce in oneself some dissatisfaction with any resulting purchases. In working humid environments over lengthy stretches of time, for example, I highly value the balanced properties yielded by Spyderco’s MagnaCut treatment protocols. Were I to instead work the winter shift at a decently-kitted Midwest warehouse, Spyderco’s coated M4 may prove preferable. Apply relevant data to your unique use case, and you shouldn’t easily arrive at a poorly chosen tool. Wishing you luck!
Another great video. I have linked two of them in my blog on my article about the Nano. I just really enjoyed your pragmatic approach and very informative results. Also your italian accent is just great (in the other video !) :-)
I was looking at work sharp pro videos and found your channel, just want to congratulate you for your effort and quality, keep the good job.
In the past I was researching for a HRC tester to double check the manufacturer specs with independent and the Leeb testers were described as non-reliable for knives, due to minimal mass and thickness requirements, it is really good to see them in practice doubt anyone cares about only ±0.3 HRC deviation. Maybe you can make a separate more in-depth video for the tester.
I tend to avoid "do it all products" or "all in one products." Magna cut is trying to be a combo
TV, CD, and DVD player all in one. Jack of all,
master of none. So many better steels.
Sheeple love to ride the bandwagon
because it's so trendy.
In my opinion a couple drops of oil goes a
long way, so I tend to like edge retention and toughness over any corrosion resistance.
Pick two qualities and work around the 3rd
of your choice. If you love to sharpen knives
then pick something with corrosion resistance
and toughness. Elementary dear Watson!
Thank your for calling this out! Hopefully this
will raise some brows. GREAT CHANNEL!!
You know how the full saying goes, right? Jack of all trades master of none, though oftentimes better than master of one. You want great edge retention - MagnaCut is not your steel, but if you’re looking for a very well balanced steel - MagnaCut is it. Good thing is that we have a lot of options nowadays.
@dertodesking8379 My transparent knives demko ad20.5 reblades @65 and 65.1 rc, respectively, have absolutely phenomenal edge retention. It is also still tougher and more stainless than the vast majority of other steels. On top of that they are absolute laser beams as the edges are very thin. I love high rc magnacut. It truly is a great steel. I consider anything above 63 to be worthwhile. You are correct, though. Magnacut is a fantastic all-around steel.
I Understand they want to go ultra corrosion resistance for the Manix2 so turning down the HRC on Magnacut makes sense but still seems low for most folks like me.
Anything in the $100 range that is an exceptional bang for buck?
@@coreydavis7810 These:
ua-cam.com/video/3uNeJmcbtZM/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/XBVZ3Bif9Lc/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/LjL_JZ8GxfU/v-deo.html
Hardness rating can determine, especially for what your going to use the knife for, if the metal you chose is viable! Yes edge geometry is also a factor , but they have to show hardness too… if I want a super tough survival knife … I want AUS 8 or 3v at about 57.5 - 59 HRC. If I want a super cutting edge and edge retention, I want s90v or k390 at about 61-63 HRC. If I want an all around performance knife I want Magnacut or 14c28n at 61-62 HRC. It’s common sense to have a HRC scale on each knife!
My god you do really beat your knives for us thank you love all your video's you have saved me lots of money . Any chance you will do any reviews on Guardian Tactical they use to work for Microtech. I hear their knives are really good.
Microtech is not my favorite brand for now and until they come clean with the MSI fiasco and the clandestine fix they implemented. After that, I’ll love them again. Pardon my silly activism!
@@CuttingBoardRx try Guardian OTF I just bought Guardian OTF it is ok not sure if as good as my Livewire. I would leave that up to you LOL.
Awesome video and information!! If these results are accurate, I find it somewhat disappointing the biggest names in the community aren't hitting the hrc to at least the recommended zone. I read on blade forum Dr. Thomas said Magnacut is best at 61-62.5 for best all-around performance. Ive heard other knife guys claim 63-64 is preferred. I'm no expert to argue if this is a concern, but it does make me question. I know alot more than just hardness is a factor as well. I own 3 spyderco MC and one Quiet Carry and I've had no issues. But only light use. Great video thanks!
Not everything Dr. Thomas published is 100% clear. The best corrosion resistance is achieved at HT regimes that can’t possibly yield 61-62.5 HRC. It’s in his article, but one needs a ton of patience to connect the dots.
Possible Idea- There are Leatherman replacement knife blades on AliExpress made from M390. I wonder how these compare to other M390 blades made in the USA. Is one of these worth buying ($69.00) to replace a 420hc main blade on the Wave+?
@@Sgreubel The advantage of powder steel M390 over ingot 420C is better edge retention and corrosion resistance. But a properly maintained 420C is a decent performer for a beater tool. The way Leathermans are constructed, the corrosion is more likely to occur on the file, inside the handles, or on the pliers. I don’t think this is a good swap bc for $69 one can find a whole decent knife. Mini Iridium is first that comes to mind. If you’re tough on tools, I swear by cold steel Finn Wolf or Karve (indestructible).
Do you think the next batch of Spyderco MagaCut will test harder ?
It has been months now and they still haven't released it.
@@RiverBoy53 I think they will develop heat treats that best correspond to what they consider the correct use of the specific model
@@CuttingBoardRx You have developed a wealth of information here. Thank you for sharing it.
Awesome keep it up! Im curious about the Spyderco Paramilitary 2 salt, I find its edge retention excellent so I would assume it had an HRC of 62 or above
Interesting that there was such a difference between the Deka and Mysto. Though the Mysto is the more premium offering so I guess it kind of makes sense.
It could simply be a matter of Hogue tweaking their heat treat over time. The Magnacut Dekas have been out for 2+ years now. It would be interesting to see if the latest production are running Mysto HRC numbers.
Awesome video.
There should be Chris Reeve blade included also.
I can tell you, CRK MagnaCut heat treat is disappointing. Below 62. Still love the brand, but I specifically sought out couple of S45VN knives before they completely disappeared. That was their forte.
@@CuttingBoardRx I think LTK had an inkosi tested recently at 65 HRC
@@bosrey7807 I would have to see the video and how many times it was measured.
@@CuttingBoardRx if thats thrue make that video. You will get nice watch and feedback with that.
В очередной раз, спасибо за интересное и информативное видео! Ваш канал это, пожалуй, лучшее, что есть на ножевую тему на ютубе на данный момент. Даже интереснее хард юзов от вининула пожалуй)
Я рад что вы так высоко отзываетесь о моей деятельности! Спасибо!
Awesome work!
Folks that watch this channel are totally worth the effort!
Can you test as well the Ganzo 729 Spyderco PM2 clone? They say it has an HRC of 58 but some have had doubts about that claim. Those knives are made in 440C stainless steel.
Would be interested if the Ganzos really are hardened to their claim.
So is 59.5 on the manix salt not good? I dont really know what the numbers mean. Higher better?
@@yeetee2781 it’s pretty much means the blade will get dull much quicker than if it was made from the same steel but was heat treated to a higher hardness. There are nuances to that rule of thumb, but in principle that’s what it means.
@CuttingBoardRx so that means not good 🤣🤣
I really want to see you test corrosion and hardness in all components of the knife for spyderco PM2 salt in magnacut. I also really really want you to test corrosion for quiet carry knives since they are claimed to be completely rust proof and also use rust proof hardware (one of the first companies to do that). Awesome videos!
Love your videos brotha my channel is finally growing thank you for all you do for the knife community
I took a look at your channel, great that you’re doing some rough tests! I have a tip: shorts get you more views but they don’t help you get to monetizing your channel. You need 500 subs and 3000 public view hours of the long form videos. I had to do 1000 and 4000 they must’ve made it easier because folks were giving up, getting those 4000 hours took forever!
Thanks for the good work. I had a feeling spyderco kept the HRC low for the salt series. I’m okay with it for those particular knives. The bel air should’ve been at least 62+ tho
There are rumors that they did on the latest knives. I don’t like the overall design, just an opinion of a crusty old guy, but there’s way too many parts!
Can you test some cruwear from spyderco?
Dude. Thank you. Really really good stuff and great information. It’s too easy to be given information and then corroborate it and not have it authoritatively challenged or criticized/qualified.
I DO remember S30V catching a bad rap. And I still shake my head at that every single time I try to freehand sharpen it lol.
I've heard some rumblings about the Ritter Hogues having super low hardness on their magnacut blades. I believe they quote 61-63HRC but multiple sources now tested hardness and were getting anywhere from 56-58HRC. I wish they would have just stuck with m390 & 20cv. I've beat the hell out of both my mini & full size Ritters in 20cv and have yet to have any chipping and they stay super sharp for a very long time.... I have two magnacut Ritters that have become safe queens until I can get them tested.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻Absolutely worth the time! I appreciate this extensive, evidence-based breakdown of a rather poorly understood aspect of steel.
Perfect comment! I would also add the word Deliberately before Poorly 🤣
Valuable content. Have you tested HRC of Magnacut ZT0350?
Can you do a rope cut test with magnacut? and TY for a Hardness test.
@@m523t Sorry to disappoint, but rope testing is Ada & Cedric department 😀
And by his own admission, kinda, it is the cutting board that is contributing to dulling the blade. His is still a valid test, but without using the same exact board, I would not be able to deliver a reliable comparison to his test. The link to his channel is in my subscriptions btw.
Totally agree brother!! We lose rwh stats and we lose our ability to determine what is what.
The best knife enthusiast channel!!!
Concerning your HRC tester, I am no expert, at all, but I once investigated it out of curiosity, in search for a cheaper alternative to regulars testers. I recall reading something about it needing a relatively large piece of steel to test acurately, and I must say that I'm surprised it works well on pocket knives, only maintained by the pressure of your fingers.
The event that hyped MC a lot was when Cedric and Ada tested this dual grit mule that did so well. Had he cut 500 bits of the rope, the story would have been different. Dr Thomas rated MC at 7 for toughness and 5.5 for abrasion resistance. Nothing incredible, but where it excels is that it can be hardened to the level of a similarly carbide rich tool steel, because the chromium is kept in solution. Around 60 I think it misses the point.
I’m fairly confident in the tester as we use this exact model to test components on USMC armored vehicles. As long as the tested item is flat where it contacts the 2kg block of steel, I’m pretty confident it’s giving better results than a single strike on an industrial tester.
@@CuttingBoardRx Yes, it seems quite accurate as I am seeing on your channel. It is good news for the knife world because these thing are not that expansive and maybe others will start to do it too.
Yes, manufacturers ought to disclose hrc range within a 2 points margin and really warranty it !
Right now, I'd like to test some 4V., Kizer has good prices on it but I fear it will be low.
Great job as always!
Have you hardness tested the Leatherman arc blade?
Good idea. Are they advertising hardness at all?
@@CuttingBoardRx no but at least 1 was tested when they were released and it was under 60. Under 60 there’s really zero benefit or reason to get Magnacut over most other steels and Larrin Thomas says that explicitly on more than a couple of his videos. At under 60 it’s a waste and a ripoff. He recommends 62-65.
@@The_RC_Guru What Dr. Thomas, doesn’t say in videos but does in his MagnaCut article on KnifeSteelNerds is that at above 62 HRC it is only as corrosion resistant as S20V
@@CuttingBoardRx Magnacut is about being the highest balanced out of all stainless, not being the highest in one aspect directly.
@@CuttingBoardRx I’m disgusted that the one Leatherman Magnacut blade was under 60 because I spent my hard earned money on it. But I don’t have a hardness tester to verify the only 1 tested sample I’ve found on UA-cam. That’s the only reason I brought it up to you. Most knife UA-cam channels pretty much praise every blade so they keep their free inventory rolling in and that keeps their view count/monetezation up. You I’ve been able to trust not suckling on their teets.
Excellent video!!!
Is this test good for magacut steel.needs to be at least 61 62..
thank you so much, great analysis!
Not saying you're wrong, but I do think it's weird (or shocking) that both Spyderco and Kershaw claim 63-64 but they're testing significantly lower. I could see a point either way but potentially 4-5 points is enormous in a hardness scale. I've seen video of Kershaw testing Livewire blades and nailing 63. Spyderco also said they were late to bringing this steel to market because they went back and completely revamped their heat treat to optimize it. Anyway, having taken apart a lot of knives I know this video took a lot of work so great job.
The salt series from Spyderco is kept slightly lower in HRC to aid in corrosion resistance. Magnacut does better with corrosion a couple marks down on HRC
@@Stafo85 Do you have verification of that from Spyderco or just assuming based on these numbers?
@@Stafo85I don't see how that's the case. Higher tempering reduces chrome in solution - but makes it softer. Higher austenite temp dissolves the carbides including all the chrome carbide to put it into solution, which with cryo (nessesary) puts more chrome in solution and increases hardness. MagnaCut should dissolve all chrome at even lower standard heat treatment temps though for room temp quenching. High temperature tempering to get higher HRC without cryo does reduce the toughness and also the corrosion resistance, quite a lot, and it's not listed on Larrin's heat treat protocol suggestions at all.
Get a lapel microphone you’d sound much better by your display case in your showroom. Great video my man.
Just ordered one with noise canceling feature. Thanks for the tip!
Tell me... What's the difference in edge retention in magnacut at the same hardness number but wirh and without cryo.
Retained austenite.
Love my Protechs
what spydeco in cruwear was that?
Why don’t they heat the magnacut to 62-63 HRC? It’s known that magnacut is at is best at 62-63 HRC right? Can you explain it please. I have a Tactile Chupacabra that is 62-63 HRC but I didn’t know that the manix 2 salt is around 60 HRC. I own a the manix 2 salt too and I must say it sharpens real easy with water stones.
Magnacut is at its best for WHAT at that HRC? Because it's not at its best corrosion resistance, that's at a lower HRC. It's not at its best toughness, BUT in almost all situations the difference in toughness between 62-63 and 59-60 is one of those differences that makes no difference in the real EDC pocket knife usage world. And it's definitely not at its best for production costs. Higher HRC means higher grinding costs. That, and a certain amount of cautiousness on the part of most of the manufacturers means they are playing it conservative initially. Higher HRC means more risk of chipping or even breaking, something this brand spankin' new steel doesn't need.
Sadly, even for the new King of the Balanced Knife Steels, there are STILL different tradeoffs in play. There are still steels that are tougher, that are more corrosion resistant, that have better edge retention, etc. There just aren't any other steels out there now that bring a better BALANCE of those factors for most uses. MOST uses. As an extreme example, I don't see Condor making truckloads of machetes for the Brazilian sugar plantation market out of Magnacut, not only because the cost would be prohibitive, but also because what the cane harvesters need isn't really what Magnacut delivers. Likewise Council Tool isn't rushing new Magnacut axes into production.
I'm waiting, almost on pins and needles now, for Spyderco to FINALLY release the Bumblebee PM2 Salts. I like the Caribbean, but I like both Magnacut more than LC200N and the PM2 in the hand more than the Caribbean. I would have gotten a Manix 2 Salt, except I just can't warm up to the Manix's lock, which is weird because I love me the Axis/Able/crossbar locks. It's good to hear that your Manix is well behaved on the stones.
Somehow, I missed out completely on the existence of the Chupacabra. How do you like it? It looks to me like the Sharklock FROM THE USERS perspective, and I'm a fan of the Sharklock, but Demko has managed to miss by straddling my preferred knife size with the AD20 and AD20.5.
This was an amazing video! Thank you!!!
Great video some great information!
Thank you!
Yes
👍
Love the hrc testing
I want to buy a knife to dress an elk and hold its edge. What steel and knike makers should I look at? Prefer a 3.5" to 5" fixed blade. Ideas?
@@martinmdl6879What’s your Budget?
@@CuttingBoardRx Less than $300. Thanks. I have a TSProf Kadet Pro with Atoma 1 x 6" Diamond stone set.
I would highly recommend CPM-3V steel and rubberized handle. Budget option is Cold Steel Master Hunter, then Benchmade Pukko or Leuko, Boker Bronco 3.5” or 4.45”
I’m not really a hunter but just about everyone around me are… they all start with budget Buck or Schrade sets, which have been used, abused, and resharpened for generations. Just saying. I don’t think MagnaCut will give you a noticeable jump in performance. CPM 3V is incredibly tough, chip resistant, wear resistant.
Almost forgot! If you’re going to mount the head yourself, for fine work check out Hogue Extrak. I think between Cold Steel and it you’re right at $300 and got 2 great knives!
@@CuttingBoardRx Thank-you. :) Subscribed. Liked.
@@martinmdl6879 welcome to the tribe!
What tool is that you're using to measure
Excellent job as always man. I appreciate the attention to detail you put in your vids. I have a magnacut Ad20s clip point coming in soon, would you want to do an hrc test on it? I'm local in Arlington/Alexandria
A question regarding methodology. Generally speaking don't knife makers primarily harden the edge, not the tang or the back of the knife? i.e. I'm wondering if you aren't measuring hardness at the most useful location.
You are a second person asking me this. Please point me to a source of this supposition, I’d like to know who’s out there confusing people.
@@CuttingBoardRx I haven't seen the manufacturing process for all these blades. My assumption is they'd be handled via the tang when put in the oven and also when quenched, which would result in a bit of differential hardening around the tang.
So my supposition is mostly biased by how I often seen these heat treatments created. Perhaps these blades are all done in a machine uniformly, I don't know.
@@ryanbudney3356 there are two ways to ht stainless: atmospheric furnace or individually wrapped. In the furnace everything is heated to the same temperature with some deviation between the center and the walls of a furnace. Individually wrapped method is used by custom makers and will be unlikely to encounter in a production knife. Either way, the hardness will not vary.
There are other steel types that can take differential heat treat (high speed tool alloys) or work hardening (H-series) but not stainless high alloys, or at least I haven’t heard of this.
@@CuttingBoardRx I suppose a simple test would be to compare harness near the edge with hardness at the tang. Maybe with one of the poorer performers, as measured at the tang.
Ok so here is my thoughts on your next vid. What is your fav pocket knives. Because I know you will take all the factors into consideration: locking mech, pivot how constructed AND the edge holding ability etc
The thing we all have to remember is also Rockwell hardness does not guarantee a good heat treat either.
Agree, but….
But the opposite is NOT true- low hardness ALWAYS guarantees sub-par performance!
I appreciate this
Looks like Hogue and Protech are doing things right.
I got launch 20 auto mag cut.rw.60 62.yes.
Great info, well done!
Glad it was helpful!
Hello, what HRC Tester do u use? do u have an link?
@@Messercheck There are several on the market. I choose not to promote any specific one. You have to make sure that it covers the HRC scale and includes the calibration block. Once you get one, I could walk you through the setup. I noticed you are not a subscriber on my channel. What can I do to earn your subscription?